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Flash
Ice climber
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Topic Author's Original Post - Sep 24, 2004 - 05:57pm PT
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During his daily whinings about Bush and the war in Iraq, Kerry made a brilliant point yesterday. Following his basic crap about how Iraq diverted us from the "War on Terror" he stated, "Iraq has become a magnent for terrorists."
I thought, "How brilliant!" Instead of sitting around here and letting the terrorists bring the fight to our homeland, Bush goes and takes out a brutal dictator in Iraq, knowing that Iraq's position in the Middle East will make it easy for the terrorists to assemble there. Now, little by little, we are killing the terrorists off and not having to do it here.
Iraq most definitely IS part of the war on terror. We ARE fighting terrorists there on a daily basis.
Man, Bush is brilliant(which I kind of already knew) but it took Kerry to point out just HOW brilliant he really is. Go figure.
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Ben Rumsen
Social climber
Neatherworld, USA
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Sep 24, 2004 - 06:27pm PT
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shhh - don't let the terrorists know we what them all in one place so we can kill them easier - be vewy, vewy quiet..........
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smidogg
Trad climber
berkeley
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Sep 24, 2004 - 07:03pm PT
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Yeah but Flash what happens when we cannot control Iraq and it becomes another terrorist state?
Here is a handy graphic on the areas that are controlled by "insurgents" in Iraq
The red areas show where the US has largely given up. The purple areas are those that have seen recent, heavy fighting. The white area are more or less pacified.
Wow what great results for such a brilliant plan!!
It looks to me as though we are in a bit of a bind
And if you think that every terrorist is going running to Iraq I would assmume that you are wrong. We are the ones focusing all of our resources there. Ever read the Art of War?
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smidogg
Trad climber
berkeley
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Sep 24, 2004 - 07:08pm PT
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Here is a list that of all of the attacks and violence in Iraq
for YESTERDAY ALONE. These "security bulletins", put together by USAID, are distributed to international aid workers and NGOs.
Read it, then compare to Bush, Allawi, and administration statements that things are somehow improving.
SECURITY UPDATE - ISSUED 24 SEP 04
BAGHDAD
EVENTS OF INTEREST - 23 SEP 04:
Baghdad
MNF activity in Sadr City recently has resulted in an increase in reported insurgent incidents.
The BIAP Road and 14 Ramadan Street (Routes IRISH and
FORCE respectively) are under sustained attack with the terrorists trying to break into the BIAP. The vehicle borne IED threat remains high in these areas.
There are unofficial reports of criminal gangs in Baghdad conducting activity with a view to kidnapping ex-pats for the bounty offered by terrorist organizations. Currently the threat of kidnapping is extremely high.
Historically, MNF activity in Sadr City has generated reprisal or indirect fire attacks into the International Zone and personnel are warned of an increased likelihood of such attacks in the near future.
The threat of abduction from within the International Zone remains and personnel should check their personal, individual security arrangements accordingly.
0115 hrs Small arms fire attack on an Iraqi Police patrol in Ur District.
0110 hrs IED attack on a convoy in the area of the 14 Ramadan street/Route 10 intersection (Routes FORCE and CARDINALS).
0200 hrs Six IEDs found and cleared in Sadr City.
0808 hrs.Indirect fire attack on MNF facilities in the northern area of the airport.
0937 hrs. IED attack on a patrol on Route PREDATORS.
1132 hrs. Indirect fire attack (mortar) on an MNF base in the Shawra Wa Um Jidir District.
1220 hrs. RPG attack on a patrol on Haifa Street.
OTHER AREAS:
EVENTS OF INTEREST - 23 SEP 04:
NORTH
The high level of activity in the North continues with no immediate prospect of a reduction. A general trend is emerging of attacks spreading into historically less active areas; planners should re-evaluate their movement policy in the light of the changing threat. More attacks on the oil infrastructure and personnel connected with it are expected, as is an increase in sectarian motivated terrorism.
The TAMPA Corridor, which includes the parallel Route DOVER, remains under sustained attack and movement along it should be limited to essential tasks only.
An official report comments on the increase in IED attacks in Diyala Province to the northeast of Baghdad and routes in this area should now also be regarded as at an increased level of threat.
Baqubah
0048 hrs. Small arms fire attack on the Iraqi Police in the Baqubah area.
0120 hrs. Indirect and small arms fire attack on the ING in the Baqubah area.
Ad-Dujayl
0800 hrs. IED found and cleared on Route HEATHER in the Ad-Dujayl area. Duluiyah
1330 hrs. RPG attack on a patrol in Duluiyah.
1405 hrs. Indirect fire attack on a patrol in northern Duluiyah.
Hawija
1230 hrs. Unofficial report: An IED comprising a rocket, det cord and a timer was found and cleared in the Hawija area.
Al-Khalis
0840 hrs. RPG attack on a patrol in the Al-Khalis area. Mosul
23 Sep 04. Unofficial report: The Deputy Director of Oil Products for the Northern Oil company, Sana Toma Suleiman, was shot dead on his way to work in Mosul.
0126 hrs. Small arms fire attack in the Mosul area.
1250 hrs. Indirect fire attack (mortar) on a patrol in Mosul.
1345 hrs. Small arms fire attack on a patrol in Mosul.
Samarra
0138 hrs. Small arms fire attack on a convoy in the Samarra area.
1408 hrs. Indirect fire attack in the Samarra area. Tikrit
0800 hrs. Unofficial report: An MNF convoy discovered an IED comprising a 155mm artillery shell at the intersection of Route TAMPA and the Tikrit bypass. A secondary device found in the area proved to be a hoax.
1000 hrs. Unofficial report: An anti-personnel mine was found and cleared on Route TAMPA North of Tikrti.
WEST
The MNF offensive continues in Fallujah and Ramadi. Travel along the Fallujah/Ramadi routes should be avoided.
Fallujah
Untimed. Indirect fire attack in the Fallujah area.
0818 hrs. IED attack on an oil pipeline 30km southwest of Fallujah. Habbaniyah
0410 hrs. RPG and small arms fire on a MNF helo in the Al-Taqaddam area, near Habbaniyah. Husaybah
1258 hrs. IED attack on a patrol in southern Husaybah. Khaladiyah
0915 hrs. IED attack on a patrol using Route MICHIGAN in the Khaladiyah area. The device was placed on the northern side of the road.
1315 hrs. IED attack on a patrol in the area of Route MICHIGAN in the Khalidiyah area.
1315 hrs. IED attack on a patrol traveling eastwards on Route MICHIGAN in the Khalidiyah area. The device was placed on the southern side of the road.
SOUTH
The increase in activity in Basrah continues following unofficial reports of an instruction having been issued by the Mehdi command to carry out attacks in the South in response to arrests of senior Sadrists and MNF operations.
The Military is unofficially reported to have issued warnings regarding a threat to the white (civilian) fleet North of Basrah and en route to the airport. A similar warning has been issued regarding the intention to kidnap MNF personnel.
It was also reported that. "A large number of US Army desert uniforms have been smuggled into the country by SCIRI. The guess is these uniforms will be used in an attempt to breech security and get VBIEDs closer to targets. Make sure just wearing a US uniform is not the ticket into your camps, the wearer still needs proper ID. Also need to be suspicious of people wearing US uniforms in situations that don't look right, ie someone in uniform driving a local garbage truck up to a camp check point. Wearing IPS uniforms has been a common tactic for the insurgents and this attempt is a logical next step to improve the tactic.
Most movement restrictions in Basrah have been lifted, however: the
situation is subject to change at very short notice and it is most strongly advised to consult the Military before moving.
Basrah
0055 hrs. Indirect fire attack (mortar) on an MNF base in Basrah.
0200 hrs. RPG and small arms fire attack on an MNF patrol in Basrah.
1051 hrs. IED found and cleared in the area of the Shatt Al-Arab Hotel in Basrah. Suwayrah
0730 hrs. Indirect fire attack (rocket) on an MNF base in Suwayrah.
MEDIA REPORTS.
GENERAL
IED and IDF are the preferred method of attacks, along with drive-by SAF and rolling ambushes, with the trend towards vehicle borne IED increasing. As high value targets become more difficult and with less opportunity, softer targets are expected become the main focus with numbers (mass casualties) being the primary objective to inspire fear and captivate the media.
Kidnapping of Iraqi employees working for Foreign Companies and international staff remain a high threat. Security measures should be reviewed with the aim of conducting awareness training, surveillance detection etc..
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Flash
Ice climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 24, 2004 - 07:14pm PT
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I know radical...but it took Kerry saying that to make me realize just HOW brilliant it was.
smidogg...you made my point, better there than here.
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smidogg
Trad climber
berkeley
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Sep 24, 2004 - 07:19pm PT
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Except if you consider Iraq the front line on the War on Terror then we are losing. Read those posts again.
And how do you think that our soldiers would feel if they knew that they were deployed as bait?
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yo
climber
NOT Fresno
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Sep 24, 2004 - 07:30pm PT
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Bush has made us safer. Logical.
Anybody seen the Simpsons where Homer starts the bear patrol? There was only one bear before, ane now there are none, and Homer says, "My patrol is working!"
Lisa says, "Dad, that is bad logic. That's like saying my tiger rock keeps tigers away."
Homer: "Wow! How?"
Lisa: "I have a rock. I don't see any tigers. Therefore, my rock keeps away tigers."
Homer/Bush: "I want to buy your rock, Lisa."
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Dragon with Matches
climber
Bamboo Grove
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Sep 24, 2004 - 07:52pm PT
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... And today we're being informed (by Rumsfeld, messenger du jour) that the "democratic elections" which are definitely going to be held on schedule, will not be open to voters in certain areas of high risk. The "four-fifths" figure given by Rumsfeld was, no doubt, precise and well-researched.
Democratic elections... available to all. As long as your precinct has shown itself to be not too anti-U.S. military.
How democratic.
How brilliant.
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Flash
Ice climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 24, 2004 - 07:52pm PT
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The soldiers were going to fight them one way or another. here or there, I think that even they would say they would rather fight them there instead of here where there is a possibility of their families getting hurt.
We're losing? That is only what the liberal left and Kerry wants you to believe. Good news for the country is bad news for Kerry and his campaign. Democracy is not easy...did you watch the speech of the interim prime minister of Iraq?
You folks who think we are losing are just delirious and want us to "lose" because that would be better for your cause. It ain't easy over there but, do not worry, we ARE NOT GOING TO LOSE! Have a little faith in our abilities. How do you think our soldiers would feel if they knew you thought they were losers?
Really now, you guys should stop watching Dan Blather so you can get an accurate accounting of what is going on over there.
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smidogg
Trad climber
berkeley
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Sep 24, 2004 - 07:57pm PT
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Flash the reports I provided above are compiled from military statistics. The Liberals are not the ones saying that we are losing, THE FACTS are telling us we are losing. And as far as Staying the course is concerned Albert Einstein once said
"Insanity is doing the same thing over and over, while expecting different results"
Some may say that you dont change horse in midstream.
I say if the horse is drowning then it is time to change or drown with it.
And as far as Allawi is concerend, I will assume that he is living by the phrase "don't look a gift horse in the mouth" You have to remember that Bush gave him his job.
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yo
climber
NOT Fresno
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Sep 24, 2004 - 07:57pm PT
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Amen, brother.
It's not a game.
It's not like playing commando in the third grade.
It's not making America safe.
It's not an expression of democratic ideals.
It's not freeing an enslaved people.
It's not reducing the number of terrorists.
It's not a cool thing to put in your presidential resume.
It's a goddamn mess.
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Flash
Ice climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 24, 2004 - 08:01pm PT
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Okay, then maybe we should quit fighting a friggin' PC war! that stinkin' mosque those terrorists were hiding in should have been leveled. No, we can't do that, it might piss someone off. So instead, we pussyfoot around and get more of our boys killed. that is the one gripe I have with Bush, he is not tough enough and he is too sensitive.
If the commie-liberal left would quit giving comfort and encouragement to the enemy I believe the insurgency would slow down also. Attacking president and saying the war is wrong and calling him a liar, etc in a time of war would have been treasonous less than 50 years ago. Now it is accepted behavior. No wonder this country is going into the toilet.
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smidogg
Trad climber
berkeley
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Sep 24, 2004 - 08:06pm PT
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"Attacking president and saying the war is wrong and calling him a liar, etc in a time of war would have been treasonous less than 50 years ago. Now it is accepted behavior. No wonder this country is going into the toilet. "
And you are the one calling other people a communist?
Isnt the bottom line of all this that we are supposedly fighting for our freedom. To me it soulds like the terrorists have you beat Flash. Remember the Constitution?
Also what if the people you piss off by setting off a nuke also have nukes?
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Flash
Ice climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 24, 2004 - 08:09pm PT
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The attacks against the president and the war have gone far beyond voicing an opinion.
If they have nukes, we better nuke and destroy them first.
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smidogg
Trad climber
berkeley
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Sep 24, 2004 - 08:16pm PT
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Oh yeah as far as I can tell the attacks on the President and the war are textbook examples of our freedoms of Speech, assembly, expression and press.
"If they have nukes, we better nuke and destroy them first"
If that were to happen then we all die. The ramifications of mutually assured destruction derived from the 80's are still alive and well with countries considered as friends and foes.
Thanks Flash for comming up with the ultimate solution. You should write a letter to the president, he might just give you a cabinet position!
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Sep 24, 2004 - 08:32pm PT
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Now I know where that "Flash" nickname came from...
Dude, The whole idea of nuking a country that didn't attack us or present a threat to us is, to sane folks, pretty insane.
The idea of bombing the crap out of the Ali mosque is also completely insane. That place is like the vatican. Think you could bomb the vatican and not piss off "Moderate" Catholics?
Use your brain. Why did extremist attack us? They actually have brains and have a reason. The reason..To provoke a response that would galvanize the ONE BILLION Muslims against the United States and the West. We played right into their hands and that's why there are terrorists in Iraq, THey are newly minted terrorist in many cases. We created them.
And remember Iraq was a secular country that oppressed the extremists and fundamentalists far more than we could get away with. That's history now. Real democracy will equal a far more religious state in Iraq.
Don't be such a wimp that the remotest threat to your imagined security means we should commit atrocities that Hitler never even dreamed of.
Peace for God's sake
Karl
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Flash
Ice climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 24, 2004 - 08:36pm PT
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"The idea of bombing the crap out of the Ali mosque is also completely insane. That place is like the vatican. Think you could bomb the vatican and not piss off "Moderate" Catholics?"
If it is so freakin' precious to them, why do they use it as a hideout to launch violent attacks from. They desecrated it, we didn't. We should have flattened it.
" Why did extremist attack us? They actually have brains and have a reason."
Stupid question and comment, doesn't deserve a response.
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dirtbag
climber
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Sep 24, 2004 - 08:59pm PT
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You guys are nuts.
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Flash
Ice climber
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 24, 2004 - 09:19pm PT
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"Flash, the opinion that disagreeing with this idiot President is anti-American or treason is what got us into this crap in the first place. I am so sick of people trying to limit free debate in the name of America and patriotism."
Radical, I am not trying to limit discussion or opinions...but saying over and over that Bush concocted the war for his Halliburton/Cheney buddies...etc, blah, blah, blah goes over the line when we are in wartime.
Did you see the Iraqi PM thanking us yesterday?
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NeverSurfaced
Trad climber
Someplace F*#ked!
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Sep 24, 2004 - 09:30pm PT
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I’m sorry. I got to this party a bit late. What were you guys talking about? I got a bit corn-fused trying to find Tuolumne Meadows on that map posted above.
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