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MarkWestman
Trad climber
Talkeetna, Alaska
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Topic Author's Original Post - Oct 13, 2018 - 04:33pm PT
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Over the past week it has rained somewhere between 5 and 6 inches here in Moab. On thursday, it rained heavily most of the day, tapered off late in the afternoon, but showers continued into the night. Yesterday it was overcast all morning then broke up and became partly cloudy by afternoon, barely reaching 60 degrees. Not a thorough drying day.
So it was interesting to drive down past the Wall Street climbing area today enroute to taking a hike in Day Canyon and seeing not dozens but probably over 100 people climbing on Wall Street, not even 36 hours after the end of a legitimately soaking rain event, and that time span not exactly being warm and sunny. Even worse, in Day Canyon, there were people climbing on the shady side routes that get zero sun. The floor of the canyon was completely wet and muddy, even the bushes were still wet. As we drove back, I noticed that the soil at the base of the Wall Street climbs clearly was still damp in places.
In short, despite whatever appearances people were interpreting, there is in my view no way the rock was completely dried out yet. Especially not in the shade.
I'm sure that someone out there will contradict my assessment, but given the sheer number of people climbing today, it would seem that people as a whole either are unaware of the issues with climbing on wet sandstone, or simply don't care. Again, the past week has seen something akin to an entire year's worth of precipitation for the area.
That is all. Carry on.
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phylp
Trad climber
Upland, CA
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Oct 13, 2018 - 04:54pm PT
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My partners and I went to a southern Utah limestone area crag to climb last week one day, after it had rained for a bit in Red Rock the day before. We ran into a couple who had left Moab the day before because of the rain. Then a couple of days later, climbing in Red Rock, we ran into another couple that had left Moab because of the rain. So some people get it. Sorry to hear about the uneducated or uncaring climbers.
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AP
Trad climber
Calgary
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Oct 13, 2018 - 05:02pm PT
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I guess they will have to up the grades when key holds break off.
Climbing wet soft sandstone is bad form
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MarkWestman
Trad climber
Talkeetna, Alaska
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 13, 2018 - 05:04pm PT
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Climbing wet soft sandstone is bad form
In addition to damaging the routes, it's also a good way to get one's self hurt.
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Fritz
Social climber
Choss Creek, ID
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Oct 13, 2018 - 05:10pm PT
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Mark! I'm sorry to report, that after 68 years of studying human behavior, I have reluctantly arrived at the conclusion that most people are pigs.
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AP
Trad climber
Calgary
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Oct 13, 2018 - 09:33pm PT
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Or idiots
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skywalker1
Trad climber
co
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Oct 13, 2018 - 10:02pm PT
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They can have Wall Street IMO. However it's hard to hold back the masses. They will keep coming. One person ropes up everyone falls in line. What's the solution? Education? I've seen little in advertisements and such. Keep selling more gear get people out there, live like this person, etc...
It has to be a grassroots thing. But explaining that even though it may not be for their safety its rather the preservation of the cliffs, I'm not convinced that I'd find an ear when folks have driven 7 hrs to some famous place that has been marketed for profit.
S...
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GuapoVino
climber
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Oct 13, 2018 - 10:32pm PT
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The more frequented climbs on Wall Street are already rope cut pretty bad. Lots of grooves everywhere.
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skywalker1
Trad climber
co
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Oct 13, 2018 - 10:44pm PT
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I like the grooves. Less sharp edges. You see that everywhere.
S...
Edit: I guess a knot can get stuck but just move the knot.
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i'm gumby dammit
Sport climber
da ow
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Oct 14, 2018 - 12:16am PT
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I think the masses (at least the outdoor type) are receptive to education. Seems like the bike folks around Hurricane/Virgin do a pretty good job of keeping folks off the wet trails.
Add the danger of climbing wet sandstone to the mix and I would guess they would be very receptive. Maybe just put a small sign on the anchors of high traffic spots like Wall St.; "Do Not Climb When Wet. Yer Gonna Die!"
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skywalker1
Trad climber
co
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Oct 14, 2018 - 02:04am PT
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Maybe so. I think that the more impact you have or more visible you are lends itself to more self regulation right?. But with climbing I just do't see it. More and more climbers means more and more issues. You can just visibly see it. Sprinters, sending someone out on a Thursday for a campsite. Its happening.
S.....
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Oct 14, 2018 - 09:15am PT
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I'm afraid Fritz has it right; man always kills the thing he loves.
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i'm gumby dammit
Sport climber
da ow
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Oct 14, 2018 - 09:23am PT
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Absolutely more people=more issues but the vast majority of them/us don't want to destroy the resource if we're aware.
Although the poop problem there suggests otherwise.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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Oct 14, 2018 - 09:25am PT
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Why do you think they’re called the Me Generation?
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thebravecowboy
climber
The Good Places
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Oct 14, 2018 - 10:46am PT
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the worst are the hordes that climb dry Ss and act like it's all so LNT and 'sustainable' and, like, waaay better than, like, say climbing when the rock is - gasp! - wet. y'know, like?
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Denver, CO
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Oct 14, 2018 - 01:08pm PT
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A similar storm on our second attempt brought Plaid and I to a stop on Line in the Sand. I take the wet seriously, especially when you can see that sandstone melting before your very eyes.
When waterfalls are flowing down Cottontail, that's a "word to the wise" to GET THE HELL OUT of there!
I think of sandstone as held together by "water-based glue." LOL
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Oct 14, 2018 - 01:26pm PT
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On a positive note: The government-financed outreach designed to encourage city people to *visit the forest* appears to be working.
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i'm gumby dammit
Sport climber
da ow
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Oct 14, 2018 - 03:10pm PT
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Regarding self regulation; that in part, is what an organization like the access fund are all about. They are committed to keeping climbing open and realize human impact is one of the biggest threats to keeping areas open.
That's why they have all these projects. Some are outright purchases of private land; or public land to avoid it becoming private land. Some are bolt replacement. Quite a bit is work to minimize our impacts.
https://www.accessfund.org/meet-the-access-fund/our-history/grant-history
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MarkWestman
Trad climber
Talkeetna, Alaska
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 14, 2018 - 03:20pm PT
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the worst are the hordes that climb dry Ss and act like it's all so LNT and 'sustainable' and, like, waaay better than, like, say climbing when the rock is - gasp! - wet. y'know, like?
To be sure, climbing on dry sandstone is a slower path to the same place. Witness the multitude of completely eroded footholds on most of the Wall Street classics, and routes like IHC in the creek which is now about a half cam size wider than it used to be.
But in real time, I think it’s a bit of an exaggeration to draw an equivalency between dry usage, and climbing it while it’s wet and breaking off key holds.
Either way, 100 years from now it’ll all have fallen down.
Like I said- carry on. 😊
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MarkWestman
Trad climber
Talkeetna, Alaska
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 14, 2018 - 03:21pm PT
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Oh and Fritz- that was funny! Thanks.
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