Ankles...uhg...

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skywalker1

Trad climber
co
Topic Author's Original Post - Aug 18, 2017 - 01:16pm PT
Just had surgery. They tightened up my ligaments and some clean out and a small repair to an inside ligament. I saw a post by Ed H. about crack climbing and ankle issues but couldn't post to it, and there were some thread drifts so here is a new one. I've been climbing cracks, mostly, for 25 years. On long road trips I have felt it after a week or two of big routes. As a disclaimer I took a grounder and broke said ankle 20 yrs ago, fell and struck a ledge 15 yrs ago (sprain).

Is climbing cracks bad for your ankles or just the big events? The "big events" were a long time ago while the long climbing days continued until last year when the ankle stopped working correctly.

Ultimately it doesn't matter cause I'm just sitting here with my foot above my heart but when I asked the doctors and surgeons they could only point to pictures of my ankle.

Anyway, its time to ice.

Cheers!

S...
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Aug 18, 2017 - 02:41pm PT
So, which of the several ligament-tightening, ankle reconstruction methods did they use on you? I've contemplated this for years, but from my research it appeared that all of the methods of re-strapping down the ligaments are only good for about ten years.

Must be a lot of folks here who've had it done - what's been the long-term result?
skywalker1

Trad climber
co
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 18, 2017 - 03:39pm PT
Thanks for the reply healyje so it was the lateral ankle ligament. I'm not savy on technical terms. But also something on the inside (medial?). As I sit here I just think of car-car adventures some misadventures. Trail running, and a whole lot of cragging to be able to do those things. I have no problem with wearing out body parts as long as its athletic, I just wonder if others here have worn out their ankles doing these silly things we pursue. I have snow boarding and motocross friends that have horrific shoulder problems.

10 yrs was not what I was told but I will be sure to be proactive in recovery and future.

S...

donini

Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
Aug 18, 2017 - 03:44pm PT
I know many climbers who were told by doctors they would never climb again. They make up a fair percentage of my partners.
Everyone reacts differently to disease and surgery.....find out for yourself. Do some easy top roping and gradually rachet it up while always listening to your body...you may surprise yourself.
Rexi

climber
Aug 18, 2017 - 03:46pm PT
don´t know about crack climbing and ankles.

But my wife was a top football/soccer player. had her ligements tightened in both ankles (problem from competiteve dancing + soccer+ genetics) when she was 19Yo. That is 17 years ago and both ankles are still going strong. She played top league soccer until she was 26YO and stopped after knee injury but the ankles have always been good despite all the strain that goes along with the sport.
skywalker1

Trad climber
co
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 18, 2017 - 03:59pm PT
Thanks Jim, and thanks Rexi! I feel positive!

S....
healyje

Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
Aug 18, 2017 - 04:13pm PT
Just looked again for the first time in a decade or so.

Looks like all the various lateral stability surgical techniques of the past have been jettisoned and they're now down to a Brostrom or Brostrom-Gould technique for lateral instability. Research on the efficacy of the two of them appears to find little or no difference in cadaver studies of the resulting strength and stability.

Now, however, there is a new 'internalBrace' technology from a company called Arthrex which augments the above procedures and is apparently getting good play relative to getting people get back to their sports faster.

And then there is the matter of open vs. arthroscopic surgery - don't have time now, but need to look into that question.

Which was your's open or arthroscopic?
Ghost

climber
A long way from where I started
Aug 18, 2017 - 07:01pm PT
My wifes ankles swell up big time when she takes long airline flights, it's hideous, what should she do?

Is she young? Old? Fit? Fat? Active? Couch potato?

No one can answer your question without some background.
drF

Trad climber
usa
Aug 18, 2017 - 08:18pm PT
Tami has it right

Compression socks. If you're on a flight longer than 2hrs you should be standing for a spell every hour.

I'm narcoleptic on a plane so I'm out.

I have a 'tendon over bone snap' on my right kankle that freaks people out whence walking down the hall
Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber
Out Of Bed
Aug 19, 2017 - 06:17am PT
£oq
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Aug 30, 2017 - 02:25pm PT
Watch those " big events"! Crack climbing, generally speaking, is good for ankles, and make them stronger than those in the general populace. Underlying issues can affect this though.

I've been crack climbing for over fifty years. I've sprained both ankles trail running and once bad enough to be on crutches from an aid fall where I caught my toe on the way down. Another time I took a twenty five foot grounder that flattened one of my exceedingly high arches for a few weeks. Another ground fall broke some foot bones.

I live in Moab and crack climb a Lot, several times a week, at a high standard. I've run 49 marathons and ultras. I hike a lot of miles regularlyat my job as a climbing / Canyoneering guide.I attribute my positive recovery from those injuries, to the training affect I get from crack climbing, right side up, and inverted!
Jaybro

Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
Aug 30, 2017 - 08:47pm PT
Phfft!

Bite me Locker😎
Or do You have something helpful / constructive to add to this thread besides whining?
steveA

Trad climber
Wolfeboro, NH
Aug 31, 2017 - 05:26am PT
skywalker1,

Just thought that I would comment that in most cases, in my opinion, pain
and how one tolerates it, is the defining factor in dealing with most old injuries. I have often thought that crack climbing has helped my ankle stiffness.
I still have over 100 small pieces of shrapnel from Vietnam in one ankle, and I broke that same ankle twice in climbing falls years later. My back issues bother me far worse than the ankle.

I'm heading into the Wind Rivers in a few days, but for the 1st time, I'm having some doubt about packing into my final destination, ( 16 miles), since my general condition has declined since last Summer.

Keep your chin up.
Charlie D.

Trad climber
Western Slope, Tahoe Sierra
Aug 31, 2017 - 06:29am PT
^^^now there's a hoof that's seen some territory, enjoy the Winds SteveA!!!
ionlyski

Trad climber
Kalispell, Montana
Aug 31, 2017 - 03:01pm PT
I have had to give up sandstone pure crack climbing. When I come back from one of those trips it's just like I rolled my ankles again; same injury, no different.

And I do have many rolled ankle injuries. Both ankles roll to the outside if I step on something or step off the trail wrong and then I hit the ground hard. I have to pay attention but every once in awhile it just happens.

Interestingly, part of the issue is my years of rupturing L4/L5 lumbar disc and all the scar tissue in and around the sciatic nerve bundle which attaches there, goes through that hole in your hip and delivers nerve endings all the way down to the tip of your toes. Now that communication hiway is compromised and my reflexes and ankle coordination don't work properly.

But, after I heal each time I am good to go. Moving back over to granite climbing and can handle the occasional crack systems just fine but not sandstone anymore, unless it's big hands and my ankle doesn't have to turn to fit my shoe in the crack.

Arne
skywalker1

Trad climber
co
Topic Author's Reply - Aug 31, 2017 - 04:09pm PT
Damn SteveA, thats some ankle sh#t! I'll never complain to your sir.

I will be back on my trampoline and Po Go stick soon. Just wondered how I got myself into this situation. Thought it might be climbing related. I really have no idea why it just quit working. Doesn't matter now, they cleaned up bone spurs, a partial tear, and tightened it up.

Cheers!

S...
Tony

Trad climber
Pt. Richmond, CA
Aug 31, 2017 - 09:55pm PT
Many years of abuse, mostly basketball plus a couple of bouldering falls finally caught up with me in 2006. I got up out of chair and my ankle quickly swelled up and I was soon barely hobbling around. Apparently, a bone spur pinched the synovium. Removal of the spurs may have bought me a few years, despite a severely torn hamstring during rehab. By 2010 my ankle was rolling over almost horizontally, so I sought further treatment. Turns out the cartilage was about gone.

Options were an ankle fusion, with likelihood of future arthritis in the foot joints, or a newly available total ankle replacement. I opted for the latter. This was quite successful, with complete elimination of pain and no more rollovers.

Running and jumping were proscribed, but those had already fallen by the wayside.

Things continued going well for a few years until my annual check in 2014, where imaging showed that I was one of the lucky <5% who had a foreign body reaction to the plastic in the device. The recommended treatment was fusion of the subtalar joint. That was unappealing, since I had no overt symptoms, but the image of large cysts threatening to collapse below the device convinced me. Recovery from this procedure was very prolonged while waitng for the fusion to occur. At least it resulted in a cool X-ray
[photoid=508562

Finally, after a couple of years, I am again pain-free and walking normally. Fear of damaging the repair has resulted in fear of even a short fall, so my leading has gotten pathetic. Hoping to work on that with some of those overbolted City of Rocks climbs in October. The piece by Dick Dorworth on his "Last Lead" really resonated.
Tony

Trad climber
Pt. Richmond, CA
Aug 31, 2017 - 10:06pm PT
I wish those synthetic parts worked as well as the real thing.

Post editing is acting up. Here is my current configuration.

I'll save the hip X-rays for another time.
steveA

Trad climber
Wolfeboro, NH
Sep 1, 2017 - 05:31am PT
WOW!
skcreidc

Social climber
SD, CA
Sep 1, 2017 - 08:23am PT
Dang, that's some cool hardwear! I'm glad it worked out for you Tony. Looks like you'll need to start a hip thread ;)


I've been having ankle fun too, though not as bad as most of you. Been a year now and finally doing some leading again (with a no fall mantra) and can cover trail at 4 mph carrying 21 pounds again (with 800ft or more of vertical gain). Still got quite a ways to go, but the routine gives me something to look forward too every day.

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