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mrtropy
Trad climber
Nor Cal
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Topic Author's Original Post - Mar 21, 2010 - 11:14pm PT
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Where will things go from here. The great savior or the demise of our country?
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Brian Hench
Trad climber
Anaheim, CA
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Mar 21, 2010 - 11:26pm PT
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Like most things, the results will lie somewhere between the extremes.
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gunsmoke
Trad climber
Clackamas, Oregon
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Mar 21, 2010 - 11:50pm PT
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A new day for America. It took some 200 years, but we have finally moved on past the antiquated views of the Founding Fathers.
Thomas Jefferson, Inaugural Address, 1801.
"Providence, which by all its dispensations proves that it delights in the happiness of man here and his greater happiness hereafter—with all these blessings, what more is necessary to make us a happy and a prosperous people? Still one thing more, fellow citizens--a wise and frugal Government, which shall restrain men from injuring one another, shall leave them otherwise free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned. This is the sum of good government, and this is necessary to close the circle of our felicities."
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mrtropy
Trad climber
Nor Cal
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 22, 2010 - 12:10am PT
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Hey pate I'll buy you beer for that and for your Colorado ski recomentdations.
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gunsmoke
Trad climber
Clackamas, Oregon
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Mar 22, 2010 - 12:11am PT
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IN YOUR FACE ALL YOU REPUBLICAN RIGHT WING MORONS.
Pate, let me ask you this. If George W Bush had crafted the most provocative and far-reaching conservative legislation in 50 years, had lost his filibuster-proof majority in the Senate through the loss of a seat in a special election in, say, Utah of all places, but still decided to plow ahead against the majority will of people by taking up special rules to bypass the long-standing 60 vote rule in the Senate, then spent a week in totally non-transparent, closed door meetings, negotiating and cutting deals, and finally bringing the matter to vote with only a couple/few hours of debate in the late hours of a Sunday, would the outrage against the man and the system not dominate the Taco? Would not one venomous post after another pile up? But as it is, hardly a concern exists. So long as what is "best" is achieved, no one cares about the process. That may be the scariest thing of all.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Walla Walla, WA
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Mar 22, 2010 - 12:12am PT
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So, Thomas Jefferson was a "right winger?"
Just askin'....
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
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Mar 22, 2010 - 12:13am PT
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What Pate said!!
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Walla Walla, WA
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Mar 22, 2010 - 12:16am PT
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Still askin'...
Jefferson, a "right winger?"
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gunsmoke
Trad climber
Clackamas, Oregon
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Mar 22, 2010 - 12:17am PT
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Hey gunsmoke, if what has been going on for the last year is your idea of "The Process" ...
Afraid you're gunna have to elaborate on that, Pate. I'm a little too slow to unpack it.
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Acer
Big Wall climber
AZ
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Mar 22, 2010 - 12:18am PT
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RIGHT ON!!!
This is a good start.
I believe it will do some good.
HR 3590
219-212
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roadman
climber
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Mar 22, 2010 - 12:18am PT
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Well said Pate
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mrtropy
Trad climber
Nor Cal
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 22, 2010 - 12:18am PT
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Gunsmoke I am not sure you understand what Jefferson was writing about. If you need help please feel free to contact me. I can give you a list of his writings, they may help you to understand what he is talking about. Also the world of business and government were much different then.
One time my cat was stuck in a neighbor's garage but we got it out after three days.
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Curt
Boulder climber
Gilbert, AZ
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Mar 22, 2010 - 12:23am PT
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It's a good first step. You have to bring the morons along bit by bit.
Curt
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gunsmoke
Trad climber
Clackamas, Oregon
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Mar 22, 2010 - 12:23am PT
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Gunsmoke I am not sure you understand what Jefferson was writing about. If you need help please feel free to contact me.
How about you post up right here? Is what you're saying is that the modern European Democracy model was in-line with the Jeffersonian thinking? I might point out that the quote wasn't from some personal letter or off-the-cuff remark. It was from his first inaugural address. Also, note that didn't pass judgment on the legislation or new direction of the country.
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
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Mar 22, 2010 - 12:26am PT
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Gunsmoke wrote: So long as what is "best" is achieved, no one cares about the process.
Where have you been...the process was legal and used many times before by republicans.
Get over it dude.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Walla Walla, WA
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Mar 22, 2010 - 12:31am PT
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Gunsmoke I am not sure you understand what Jefferson was writing about. If you need help please feel free to contact me. I can give you a list of his writings, they may help you to understand what he is talking about. Also the world of business and government were much different then.
One time my cat was stuck in a neighbor's garage but we got it out after three days.
I'm waiting to hear a coherent "take" on what Jefferson was (actually, speaking) about. Don't try to snow me or baffle me with BS because political philosophy is one of my areas of specialization. Let's hear how the great differences between then and now affect the difference (clear to them, not to most today) between negative and positive rights/duties.
And, I'm still waiting to hear if Jefferson was a "right winger."
Oh, finally, once my cat had the sniffles for a few days, but it got over it. My ferret too.
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gunsmoke
Trad climber
Clackamas, Oregon
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Mar 22, 2010 - 12:34am PT
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But health care... seriously?
weschrist. Perhaps your point is that anything this revolutionary from Bush would have inherit with it aspects that push a different button.
But to your point "it's just health care", I'd say this. One model of society is that each person is responsible for their own success. Another is that each person has certain inherent rights which, by most thoughts, includes comfortable housing, nutritious food, education through college, health care. In the latter model, if some has all these things and anything more, they should, under force of law, be required to give of what they have until everyone has achieved their inalienable rights. You can make a case for either perspective. But let's be clear that this bill is just the beginning of the world Obama envisions. It's not just a piece of health care legislation, it's the biggest step forward toward reforming the nation into a European democracy. Is that a good thing? Again, I haven't offered an opinion on that. But this legislation is not just another bill. The fact that the Dems bent the rules to their limits in order to pass it shows how big it is to them.
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mrtropy
Trad climber
Nor Cal
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 22, 2010 - 12:35am PT
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"political philosophy is one of my areas of specialization" Thanks much big fella" you tell us then.
I just read, I am average and do not even have a master's degree but if you get too heavy I can have my family explain it to me.
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Matt
Trad climber
primordial soup
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Mar 22, 2010 - 12:35am PT
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although i rarely spend much time here these days, i admit to being curious what would be posted up on ST in the wake of the HCR vote today in the house of reps-
having found this thread i have little to add, aside from this:
WHAT PATE SAID, B I O T C H ! ! !
(that, and- at least when the left kicks your collective wingnut, ignorant, racist, paranoid, stingy asses, we still are kind and generous enough to leave you some hope of cleaning yourself up without going bankrupt! "elections have consequences!!!". and btw- if you think that's something, watch out or your damn kids will be able to afford to go to college again!)
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