Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
| Messages 1 - 40 of total 40 in this topic |
JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
|
|
|
Topic Author's Original Post - Oct 7, 2009 - 02:04pm PT
|
What Men Can Do About Dwindling Testosterone Levels
Is a man the sum of his testosterone levels? It's a question that's been on my mind over the last few days, since I stumbled across a fascinating hourlong episode all about the hormone on the NPR radio show This American Life. The segment features an eerie but enlightening tale of a man who stops producing testosterone due to a medical treatment and discovers that life without testosterone is essentially a life without desire. And not just sexual desire but desire for anything: be it food, conversation, and even TV. The man, oddly enough, describes it as somewhat "pleasant"; it sounds to me more like some strange sort of torture.
I'm not about to run off and get my testosterone levels tested like the producers of This American Life did for their show, but I will say hearing that episode makes me wonder where I fall on the testosterone spectrum. Testosterone levels start falling about 1 percent a year once men hit middle age, and it's a bit alarming to imagine something as central as my personality changing because of a dwindling hormone. Apparently when testosterone levels fall far enough, doctors even have a name for it—several names, in fact. Andropause, androgen deficiency, late-onset hypogonadism, and even "male menopause" are some of the labels bandied about.
Some physicians think that stopping the decline with supplemental testosterone is a good way to alleviate symptoms commonly associated with aging such as bone and muscle loss, sexual dysfunction, and depression. Others argue testosterone therapy is a futile attempt to stop the natural aging process—and one laden with side effects. The debate isn't likely to end anytime soon, but we did get some interesting news on the topic this week from the Archives of Internal Medicine. A team from the Massachusetts-based New England Research Institutes found that about 6 percent of 1,486 men tested in the Boston area had androgen deficiency and that of those men a majority—88 percent—were not receiving testosterone treatment despite, as the study put it, "adequate access to care."
"We don't know the reasons why few men with the condition were actually treated," says Susan Hall, the NERI epidemiologist who led the study. She notes that the cost of the drug or the fact the condition can easily go unrecognized may be factors.
The language of the study subtly implies that the men not on testosterone were missing out on the best care available, but there's good reason that many doctors have been reluctant to prescribe testosterone therapy. The Mayo Clinic, for example, has conducted a review of the science that concludes there's little evidence that using testosterone improves sexual dysfunction or is safe from a cardiovascular standpoint. And they publish a laundry list of potential side effects, including skin reactions, baldness, sleep apnea, testicular shrinkage, limited sperm production, excess blood production, and acne. Perhaps most frighteningly, testosterone therapy may stimulate the growth of prostate tumors.
If I were considering testosterone therapy, I'd be wary of the aggressive marketing of the various patches, gels, and creams that can be used to administer the hormone. The Internet is awash in testosterone supplements aimed at men, and plenty of them don't fully explain the potential risks and uncertainties associated with testosterone treatment. There are other ways to increase testosterone levels, according to this article and this one, so I'd make sure that I had tried some other strategies—such as getting enough sleep and eating right—before signing on to any sort of testosterone treatment plan.
I'm interested in hearing from readers who have low testosterone and have tried supplementation. Has it helped? Have you encountered side effects?
|
|
mason805
Trad climber
East Bay, CA
|
|
I read somewhere that republicans are cursed with low testosterone levels. Just kidding.
If you are going to inject yourself with testosterone, do it the right way and use steroids along with a testosterone supplement.
Then of course there's the estrogen blocker you have to take after you come off the supplement.
What if climbers used testosterone and steroids to enhance their climbing?
Now that would be an interesting story.
|
|
Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
|
|
Juan, your topic title says your blood test did not go well.
What blood test?
Did your testosterone level come back low?
|
|
GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
|
|
Careful there.
|
|
JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 7, 2009 - 02:25pm PT
|
My body seems to be longer producing testerone.
I have been using a gel for the last 10 days and feel twenty years younger.
Its mind blowing.
Juan
|
|
Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
|
|
I have a friend on Testosterone replacement therapy.
You are on the gel? That would be Androgel, I take it?
Does your health insurance pay for it, and you have some copay?
My friend got tired of rubbing the gel on every day, so years ago
he learned to self inject in his upper thigh every two weeks.
He says his T levels are right where they should be, injection does not
hurt at all, and the injectable Testosterone is much, much cheaper than
the Androgel. In fact, he says a small bottle of DepoTestosterone costs
about $100 and lasts for a good couple of months.
His health insurance pays for it, other than his copay.
He has a Yahoo username and password and belong to this group
http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/hypogonadism2/?yguid=323791100
He says this group is all guys discussing testosterone replacement,
might be helpful to you!
|
|
JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 7, 2009 - 02:41pm PT
|
Androgel is the ticket. It costs me $15 dollars a month with insurance. The instructions have so many warning about the dangers of transmission until it has dried for a few hours.
Juan
|
|
Beatrix Kiddo
Mountain climber
Littleton
|
|
Being a woman is not so bad.
|
|
JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 7, 2009 - 02:44pm PT
|
I already noticed a reduction in Body fat and more muscle tone.
Juan
|
|
GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
|
|
Have fun in Manopause.
|
|
Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
|
|
Read this book:
"How to achieve healthy aging, why everyone should replace hormones, a review of the medical literature"
Neal Rouzier, MD
Worldlink Medical Publishing, Salt Lake City
Only supplement with bio-identical hormones.
|
|
Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
|
|
juan, just sent you an email.
|
|
Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
|
|
Glad I'm south of middle age!
|
|
G_Gnome
Trad climber
In the mountains... somewhere...
|
|
I think I am probably the poster boy for replacement therapy. It changed my life!!!! I have done both shots and gel for testosterone and prefer the gel. Rub a little on each morning and your levels are more consistent than with the shots. There are lot of other nice drugs to take too if you want to amp up the metabolism.
|
|
Jingy
Social climber
Flatland, Ca
|
|
juan - does this mean that you are making the change?
not sure what this all means to the taco, but.. then again, I don't really have to know everything about you..
hope all goes well for all involved
|
|
JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 7, 2009 - 03:57pm PT
|
I am suddenly surrounded by hot COEDS.
Juan
|
|
Roman
Trad climber
Bostonia
|
|
Beatrix I would say that there are FAR more women taking estrogen for menopause than men on TRT.
|
|
Roman
Trad climber
Bostonia
|
|
BTW Juan congrats on working on getting yourself straightened out health wise. If this has been an issue for you I bet you will feel a lot less depressed as well. Most ppl do. Having out of whack hormones is serious f*#king business.
all the best dude.
|
|
Beatrix Kiddo
Mountain climber
Littleton
|
|
I know I know. I was kidding.
|
|
Brian Hench
Trad climber
Anaheim, CA
|
|
There is an OTC supplement called DHEA which may or may not support testosterone production. Anyone out there using it?
|
|
mason805
Trad climber
East Bay, CA
|
|
Juan,
Incidentally, how old are you if you don't mind me asking?
Does anyone think that depressed test levels could be caused by polychlorinated biphenyls or other toxic industrial chemicals that have seeped into the water supply?
Edit: I'm writing a research paper on corporate social responsibility for mgmt 4500 and I read somewhere there may be a correlation between pollution by large corporations and lowering fertility rates in men and women and test levels in men. That's the reason for the question.
|
|
neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
|
|
hey there juan, say.... just take care and keep an eye out for your bodies health, as to what might be tumors, as i read this in your note:
Perhaps most frighteningly, testosterone therapy may stimulate the growth of prostate tumors.
many woman taking hormones in the past have faced bad issues...
hormone adding may surely keep the body more beautiful or handsome as it ages, but, it may be affecting other tricky internal issues that will manefest badly, later... sometimes it is an issue of: health and strenth the natural ageing way, or beauty and perfection, the induced way, to mask aging...
but--wishing you the best, very truly... on your new road... :)
|
|
JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 7, 2009 - 05:57pm PT
|
47 years ago in Torrance Calif did I awake. I have felt sick tired and depressed for two years. Maybe this is my ticket out.
Juan
|
|
graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
|
|
"Being a woman is not so bad."
Women have testosterone too and it serves similar functions.
|
|
Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
|
|
Brian, the otc dhea is not a sufficient dose to make any difference.
Get a prescription from a Doc who specializes, again I suggest Dr. Rouzier, and get it filled by a company which does compounding and bio-identicals.
|
|
landcruiserbob
Trad climber
Maui or Vail ; just following the sun.......
|
|
Wiggle your worm more often; it will trigger natural test production. Once you get on the juice(test)you will never get off of it. Talk about depression.
|
|
Russ Walling
Gym climber
Poofter's Froth, Wyoming
|
|
A product called "Icy Hot" if rubbed into your nuts will jumpstart those sad raisins. With about 3 applications over the span of a day or so, you will once again be ready to go Prow Solo.
|
|
neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
|
|
hey there hossjulia, say, that is the worry of the hormones, etc... as you said... (so just take care, juan)...
I would be extremely leary of supplemental synthetic hormones. They ARE NOT the same as what we produce, and monitoring them involves expensive, frequent blood tests.
say, juan, there is so much connected with fatique and depresion, too, as to what folks eat now a days... i sure hope you have a nice quiet time to get aside and little-by-little cut out any modern packaged foods, etc, and see if this helps...
will be cheering you onward, though this quest to feel better..
god bless... :)
|
|
Rich the Brit
Trad climber
San Ramon, CA
|
|
I got hit with a wierd imflammatory arthritis when I was 35 - not rheumatoid thank god - no joint damage, but painful and disabling none the less.
Docs got me going again with a small daily dose of prednisone (sub 7mg). cortesteroids seriously suck - they deplete your adrenal glands; and you get so dependent on them that you have to wean off it very slowwwly - it can take people years to get completely off it after thay have been on it for over a year. But, hey I am pain fee, limited side effects, active in work and play, and most importantly, I still climb - I suck, but then I sucked before the arthritis hit.
So where is this going. My doc has worked with me on all sorts of alternative approaches to managing my condition, e.g. I take SAMe on his recommendation (he suffers from a simialr autoimmune arthritc condition).
Some endocronologists beleive that a drop in DHEA levels may has some detrimental effect on well being. In some inmflammatroy conditions, research has shown that DHEA supplementation has allowed patients to reduce prednisone dosage (most double blind studies have been with female lupus patients).
I take 150mg of OTC DHEA per day (do your research for the best brands, or pay pharmacist for the good stuff - there is a lot of crap out there), and it has allowed me to dramatically reduce my prednisone dosage. There is a risk of exacerbating hormonal cancers (e.g. prostrate), so be aware of your family history. I got my DHEA levels tested, and sure enough they were in the toilet, so supplementation was justified.
|
|
Wayno
Big Wall climber
Seattle, WA
|
|
Help Mr. Wizard, I don't want to ba a ... anymore. Drizzle, drazzle, deedle dum, time for this one to come home.
|
|
Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
|
|
Rich the Brit-
Very interesting about the prednisone hormone connection. I'm going to look into this since I was on heavy duty prednisone for 10 years for uncontrolled asthma that turned out to be misdiagnosed vocal cord dysfunction. The main side effect I'm sure of is that it thinned my bones and that is clearly related to hormones. Great tip!
|
|
JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Peenemunde
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 9, 2009 - 02:44pm PT
|
Its not a fing troll.
My Dick is Hard again.
Juan
|
|
Batrock
Trad climber
Burbank
|
|
Juan,
I started taking Androgel about two months ago with good results.
5 years of pain meds followed by depression meds had dumped my T levels.
I am off depression meds but my MD tells me pain and pain meds will just be a part of my life which is not easy to hear.
The combo of being off anti-depression meds and starting the Androgel has our sex life back to what it was before and then some.
|
|
Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
|
|
Dingus:Boomer Penis Recovery is a growth industry for the next 30 years. Who wants to live to a hundred with a wet noodle dick? What's the point in THAT?
Dingus, that's why god gave us tongues.
|
|
JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Peenemunde
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 11, 2009 - 01:02am PT
|
I went climbing today the first time in 8 months today and felt great.
Has to be all the extra T flowing in my body. I thought I was going to have to give up climbing. Life is sweet.
Juan "New Mojo" De Fuca
|
|
dogtown
Trad climber
JackAssVille, Wyoming
|
|
|
Oct 11, 2009 - 01:22am PT
|
Jaybro wrote;Glad I'm south of middle age!
Me too, Sorry dude.
|
|
JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Peenemunde
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 11, 2009 - 04:03pm PT
|
For twelve years you've been asking "Who is John Galt?" This is John Galt speaking. I'm the man who's taken away your victims and thus destroyed your world. You've heard it said that this is an age of moral crisis and that Man's sins are destroying the world. But your chief virtue has been sacrifice, and you've demanded more sacrifices at every disaster. You've sacrificed justice to mercy and happiness to duty. So why should you be afraid of the world around you?
Your world is only the product of your sacrifices. While you were dragging the men who made your happiness possible to your sacrificial altars, I beat you to it. I reached them first and told them about the game you were playing and where it would take them. I explained the consequences of your 'brother-love' morality, which they had been too innocently generous to understand. You won't find them now, when you need them more than ever.
We're on strike against your creed of unearned rewards and unrewarded duties. If you want to know how I made them quit, I told them exactly what I'm telling you tonight. I taught them the morality of Reason -- that it was right to pursue one's own happiness as one's principal goal in life. I don't consider the pleasure of others my goal in life, nor do I consider my pleasure the goal of anyone else's life.
I am a trader. I earn what I get in trade for what I produce. I ask for nothing more or nothing less than what I earn. That is justice. I don't force anyone to trade with me; I only trade for mutual benefit. Force is the great evil that has no place in a rational world. One may never force another human to act against his/her judgment. If you deny a man's right to Reason, you must also deny your right to your own judgment. Yet you have allowed your world to be run by means of force, by men who claim that fear and joy are equal incentives, but that fear and force are more practical.
You've allowed such men to occupy positions of power in your world by preaching that all men are evil from the moment they're born. When men believe this, they see nothing wrong in acting in any way they please. The name of this absurdity is 'original sin'. That's inmpossible. That which is outside the possibility of choice is also outside the province of morality. To call sin that which is outside man's choice is a mockery of justice. To say that men are born with a free will but with a tendency toward evil is ridiculous. If the tendency is one of choice, it doesn't come at birth. If it is not a tendency of choice, then man's will is not free.
And then there's your 'brother-love' morality. Why is it moral to serve others, but not yourself? If enjoyment is a value, why is it moral when experienced by others, but not by you? Why is it immoral to produce something of value and keep it for yourself, when it is moral for others who haven't earned it to accept it? If it's virtuous to give, isn't it then selfish to take?
Your acceptance of the code of selflessness has made you fear the man who has a dollar less than you because it makes you feel that that dollar is rightfully his. You hate the man with a dollar more than you because the dollar he's keeping is rightfully yours. Your code has made it impossible to know when to give and when to grab.
You know that you can't give away everything and starve yourself. You've forced yourselves to live with undeserved, irrational guilt. Is it ever proper to help another man? No, if he demands it as his right or as a duty that you owe him. Yes, if it's your own free choice based on your judgment of the value of that person and his struggle. This country wasn't built by men who sought handouts. In its brilliant youth, this country showed the rest of the world what greatness was possible to Man and what happiness is possible on Earth.
Then it began apologizing for its greatness and began giving away its wealth, feeling guilty for having produced more than ikts neighbors. Twelve years ago, I saw what was wrong with the world and where the battle for Life had to be fought. I saw that the enemy was an inverted morality and that my acceptance of that morality was its only power. I was the first of the men who refused to give up the pursuit of his own happiness in order to serve others.
To those of you who retain some remnant of dignity and the will to live your lives for yourselves, you have the chance to make the same choice. Examine your values and understand that you must choose one side or the other. Any compromise between good and evil only hurts the good and helps the evil.
If you've understood what I've said, stop supporting your destroyers. Don't accept their philosophy. Your destroyers hold you by means of your endurance, your generosity, your innocence, and your love. Don't exhaust yourself to help build the kind of world that you see around you now. In the name of the best within you, don't sacrifice the world to those who will take away your happiness for it.
The world will change when you are ready to pronounce this oath:
I swear by my Life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man,
nor ask another man to live for the sake of mine
|
|
Bruce Morris
Social climber
Belmont, California
|
|
|
Oct 19, 2009 - 01:41am PT
|
B.S. It's really a placebo for people with geriatric obsessions. I'm 62 and I just did a V7 last week and I'm always surrounded by beautiful 20 year old co-eds. You're just not working out hard enough. Give me a break you lazy materialistic suckers. The whole medical industry just wants to test you and give you drugs to make money. The hell with tests, to hell with the lab. First you fool yourself, then you try to fool other people.
|
|
| Messages 1 - 40 of total 40 in this topic |
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!