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doctor J
Trad climber
Alexandria, VA
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Topic Author's Original Post - Oct 6, 2009 - 10:11pm PT
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I was fortunate enough to convince my Engineer Management professor to allow me to develop a plan to climb The Nose as my final project in his class. I need to get some feedback from climbers who have done the route. If you have a second, please answer the following questions. Thanks in advance!
1. What was included in your rack? Were there any items that you could not live without? Items that were of no use?
2. What did you pack in your haul bag? Were there any items that you could not live without? Items that were of no use?
3. What was the maximum grade of free climbing you did?
4. How long did the route take you?
5. Did you fix pitches? How many? Where did you haul from?
6. What advice on hauling can you give?
7. If you have climbed at Seneca Rocks, WV/Old Rag, VA, how do the grades compare to Yosemite?
8. What do you wish you would have known before starting?
9. What aid techniques were valuable to know well?
10. What techniques were used to increase the speed of the ascent?
11. What suggestions do you have for bivying?
12. Did you bring a portaledge?
13. Is there anything else I should know?
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Roman
Trad climber
Bostonia
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You should see if Chris Mac will just sell you a PDF copy of Road to The Nose!
Sorry man I got nothin' I'm not badass enough to have ticked it yet. Good luck though.
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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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In reply to #13, yes, If you can't climb the Nose in 3.5 days then you shouldn't be up there. Not all routes are for all people and you don't deserve to add to the cluster trying to figure out what you're doing. Other people have hopes and dreams also and if you shouldn't add to the cluster and get in their way.
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doctor J
Trad climber
Alexandria, VA
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 6, 2009 - 10:28pm PT
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I have the supertopo, but I need to get responses from multiple sources for the class.
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yosguns
climber
Durham, NC
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Jolly Ranchers.
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Captain...or Skully
Social climber
Idaho, also. Sorta, kinda mostly, Yeah.
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Lots of Jolly Ranchers.
Really.
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Gene
Social climber
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doctor J,
Dyno it!
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Rhodo-Router
Gym climber
obsessively minitracking all winter at Knob Hill
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If you have to ask...
oh yeah-
you
are gonna
die
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schwortz
Social climber
davis, ca
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and i thought california schools were f*#ked up
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mcreel
climber
Barcelona
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Hey, an opportunity to run on at the keyboard about past glories!
1. What was included in your rack? Were there any items that you could not live without? Items that were of no use?
normal set of nuts, 3 TCUs, tricams from 0.5 - 2, double friends from 1 to 3.5, 1 #4 friend. I have since heard that cam hooks are nice to have to move fast, but we didn't have them.
2. What did you pack in your haul bag? Were there any items that you could not live without? Items that were of no use?
food, water, and clothes. 6 large cans of Fosters Lager.
3. What was the maximum grade of free climbing you did?
10c or so. I deeply regret not having freed Pancake flake.
4. How long did the route take you?
4 easy days. Sickle - ECT - Camp 4 - Camp 6 - top
5. Did you fix pitches? How many? Where did you haul from?
No, hauled as we went.
6. What advice on hauling can you give?
Try it one time before getting on the Nose.
7. If you have climbed at Seneca Rocks, WV/Old Rag, VA, how do the grades compare to Yosemite?
Seneca grades were stiffer than the Valley, at least back in the late '80s.
8. What do you wish you would have known before starting?
To face in when doing the Texas Flake chimney.
9. What aid techniques were valuable to know well?
the aid is really easy, it's the only long route I ever did where I aided extensively. Having a clear idea of what you want to do on the pendulums before getting to them is a good idea.
10. What techniques were used to increase the speed of the ascent?
Biff knots so the belayer could nap. Backcleaning. French freeing.
11. What suggestions do you have for bivying?
Get to the ledges first so as to stake out a good spot. Don't miss a night on El Cap Tower. Try to avoid Camp 6 - it stinks! Sickle is not very comfortable. Camp 4 is not either, but it's a good place to contemplate the Great Roof.
12. Did you bring a portaledge?
No, they are provided by nature.
13. Is there anything else I should know?
We did it in late June, early July. Had the route to ourselves, which was great. A little hot on the Sickle - ECT day, but fine afterwards.
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Josh Higgins
Trad climber
San Diego
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I completely agree with Mark, by the way. Don't get on it if you don't know what you're doing. There are too many stories of competent climbers having to bail behind a slow party who later bails. Don't be a self-centered climber and create a traffic jam screwing many other people. Practice, practice, practice. Then get on it. My friends just had to bail off the Salathe Wall this summer stuck behind a slow party yelling at each other at each belay... LAME!
Josh
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Prod
Trad climber
Dodge Sprinter Dreaming
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I predict a walk of shame here!
If you bail do you fail?
Prod.
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Josh Higgins
Trad climber
San Diego
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I hope so! That would be incentive!
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the Fet
climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
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Climb a couple Grade Vs (e.g. Wash Column, Leaning Tower) in the valley first.
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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"I completely agree with Mark, by the way. Don't get on it if you don't know what you're doing. There are too many stories of competent climbers having to bail behind a slow party who later bails. Don't be a self-centered climber and create a traffic jam screwing many other people. Practice, practice, practice. Then get on it. My friends just had to bail off the Salathe Wall this summer stuck behind a slow party yelling at each other at each belay... LAME!"
Let's see, Zodiac, check.
Shield, check.
West Face in day, check.
P.O. Wall, check.
The Nose, 4 attempts, nothing. Why? For the traffic reasons stated above, half of which were created by parties that bailed at or before the Stovelegs.
I'm all for living out your El Cap glory, and my summit jones doesn't have any greater priority than yours, but you owe it to yourself and others on the route and those competent parties attempting it to have your act together.
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JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
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How do I do the King Swing?
Please Advise.
JDF
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WBraun
climber
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First
You must become king ......
and then you can swing.
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Josh Higgins
Trad climber
San Diego
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I saw one party of 3 take 3+ hours on the pitch off Sickle which is stright forward 5.9 crack climbing. When I passed them they asked how to get to the Stovelegs. What a bunch of retards. They got on The Nose without even an idea of how to pendulum... They were all just hanging in Dolt Hole doing nothing when I went by. I never did see them move. Don't be that retard that everyone hates and rants about on the internet.
Josh
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JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
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How does one get out of Dolt Hole?
Please Advise.
Juan
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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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[quotei]f the bar was set at 3.5 days that would eliminate at least 90% of the parties.[/quote]
My point exactly.
Remember, the third ascent was done in 3.5 days. The route was 99% AID climbing. MOST anchors had to be built. PITONS had to be placed and removed for 99% of it.
How much harder was the route back then? How much better were those guys compared to 90% of the climbers on the Nose now?
All routes are not for all people.
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JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
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The Nose should be one big beer fest with the aid climbers pissing on the free climbers below.
Juan
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Roger Breedlove
climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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I have some symphony for doctor J's request. He is completing an Engineering Mangement class assignment (His first post). He has to have multiple sources to complete the assisment (His second post). I am guessing that he is not planning to climb the Nose anytime soon.
My suggestion would be to search for Nose Trip Reports on this Forum and read between the lines regarding preparation. Chris MacNamara, the owner of this site, also had a thread where he gave a draft of a to-do list on how to prepare for big wall climbing. If you can find it, I think that you can connect the difficulty of getting up the Nose. This may be published in which case you should buy his book. Also buy his 'Road to the Nose' as someone up thread suggested. Here is a sample of Big Aid
As a personal comment, I don't think that any climbing in the SE at any technical difficulty prepares anyone for the other world of being buried in gear, thirsty, hot or cold, wind whipped, exposed, befuddled, best-time-in-yout life/worst-time-in-your-life (Dicken's turned to writing after his fifth failed attempt!) of getting up El Cap.
And if and when you decide that you want to actually try the Nose, follow Mark Hudon's advice--its sound and from an worldclass source.
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OR
Trad climber
So.VT.
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Please notify YOSAR of your arrival to the Valley so they will be fully staffed.
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Handjam Belay
Gym climber
expat from the truth
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1. What was included in your rack? Were there any items that you could not live without? Items that were of no use?
Single set stoppers. 1 set small cams. 2 set med cams. 1 old 4 BD cam, Slings.
No extra stuff
2. What did you pack in your haul bag? Were there any items that you could not live without? Items that were of no use?
Sleeping pad. Sleeping Bag. Food. Water.
3. What was the maximum grade of free climbing you did?
5.10
4. How long did the route take you?
2 bivis, fixed to Sickle
5. Did you fix pitches? How many? Where did you haul from?
6. What advice on hauling can you give? PULL
7. If you have climbed at Seneca Rocks, WV/Old Rag, VA, how do the grades compare to Yosemite?
8. What do you wish you would have known before starting?
A supertopo sure would have been nice.
9. What aid techniques were valuable to know well?
Hauling
10. What techniques were used to increase the speed of the ascent? speed is safety. frequent safety meetings.
11. What suggestions do you have for bivying?
Get to the flat spot before your partner. Put the lighter on a lanyard.
12. Did you bring a portaledge?
NO
13. Is there anything else I should know? Yer gonna die.
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Roman
Trad climber
Bostonia
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To the OP: I dont even think Old rag grades compare to Seneca themselves.
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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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If you're a weekend climber, and would have to take a week to climb the Nose, adding to the cluster along the way, maybe you shouldn't be on the Nose. All routes are not for all people.
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Two Pack Jack
climber
The hills
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#1) read party passing ethics so you know what to do when your slow balls get passed:
http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/598749/Big_Wall_Passing_Ethics
Don't let this be your first wall. Climb a bunch of other mini walls grade (V) when you get a few days first, and half these questions will answer themselves.
Bring a ledge.
either learn how to aid climb effectiently, or be willing to spend 6 days up there. It's a wholllllle bunch of climbin.
Don't teach yourself these things while climbing the nose, or as so many other people have so elegantly stated...
Your gunna die.
Buy Chris mac's book. "road to the nose", you will be very glad you did. He also has a big wall book coming out. Don't know how to do everything in "theory" before going up, make sure you've DONE it many, many many times.
P.S. the climbing is totally different at seneca and old rag from Yose cause of the rock. Grades compare well if you are used to the stone. If you can't tick 12, 5.8 free pitches a day at seneca, I wouldn't even try.
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dee ee
Mountain climber
citizen of planet Earth
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I have to disagree with Mr. Hudon who is sounding pretty elitest there.
Doctor J, you have as much right to be up there as any other knucklehead, no matter how long it takes.
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WandaFuca
Social climber
From the gettin' place
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Rights shmights.
He's talking about responsibility; take some.
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mongrel
Trad climber
Truckee, CA
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Interesting engineering class project. If you can swindle project approvals out of government offices as skilfully as getting this one accepted as a project, you'll get along in the profession. Also a good sign to ask folks who know about stuff: many engineers should do this.
1. What was included in your rack? Set of nuts (including micro for the "RP pitch"), three sets cams exc. only 2 of 3.5 and 4 Friend. This was ages ago and there weren't very many reliable bolt anchors, hence the extra gear. Were there any items that you could not live without? Rope. Items that were of no use? Rain gear - but I wouldn't leave it.
2. What did you pack in your haul bag? F*cking everything. Bulging. Antique haul bag, too small. Were there any items that you could not live without? Items that were of no use? Do they teach repeating yourself in that class?
3. What was the maximum grade of free climbing you did? 5.10. It's mandatory to free the Pancake Flake (up to the short 11b at the end). This is the most fun on sight lead you will do in your life.
4. How long did the route take you? 4 days but with ropes fixed to Sickle.
5. Did you fix pitches? Up to Sickle How many? Where did you haul from? Every belay
6. What advice on hauling can you give? It's going to suck no matter what on the first 4-5 pitches. Have a locking pulley (Wall Hauler, Kong block roll).
7. If you have climbed at Seneca Rocks, WV/Old Rag, VA, how do the grades compare to Yosemite? Crack grades at Seneca are similar to the crack ratings for the Nose. It's not so much the difficulty or pumper-ness of the climbing as the head to just blast up without a piece every 10 feet. Just like Seneca. You absolutely want to be able to free solid 5.10 cracks to have the maximum fun as you deserve to have on this mega-classic route. Plus this avoids the BS about bailing and slow or fast or whatever. You climb well and have fun and everyone else will to.
8. What do you wish you would have known before starting? Exactly how far to lower down for the King Swing. Nothing else.
9. What aid techniques were valuable to know well? Setting up a clustered belay anchor, properly layered so the next leader smoothly fires into the next pitch. Best practice you can get is many many grade III to V climbs, get really smooth at leading, cleaning, re-racking, making bomber anchors quickly. Do that, and it's a snap to add the skill of setting up a haul and managing the pig.
10. What techniques were used to increase the speed of the ascent? Hippy lettuce.
11. What suggestions do you have for bivying? Hippy lettuce.
12. Did you bring a portaledge? Hell, no - the naturals are just fine. Don't bring the extra weight.
13. Is there anything else I should know? How to crap in a poop tube and carry it down.
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nature
climber
Tucson, AZ
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13. Is there anything else I should know? Yer gonna die.
bwaahahahahaaaaa!!!!1111666669
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doctor J
Trad climber
Alexandria, VA
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 7, 2009 - 10:31pm PT
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Just to make sure nobody is freaking out about me getting in your way on the route, I don't plan to do it until I am prepared. I plan to climb other single day routes in Yosemite before getting on The Nose. The point of the class is to organize a project. I am just getting info from those with experience. Thanks for the helpful suggestions. Who knew Jolly Ranchers were so key?
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mongrel
Trad climber
Truckee, CA
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As to Roger's post: Yep, that's it exactly. Incredible footage. If only we had seen this 22 or so years ago! maybe we could have done it with the flip too. Partner, who had done the route, had me lower down too far and I put on an entertaining show for the Meadow denizens, running madly back and forth, stretching to the limit and hanging, just barely hanging on to the merest slopers but unable to pull across, then falling spectacularly back across the face 60 or 70 feet to start another attempt.
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reddirt
climber
Elevation 285 ft
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what about working things out on E coast aid routes at Whitesides or Cathedral (though things will get pretty chilly soon in NH)? That's where I'd start if I were from Alexandria, VA.
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dee ee
Mountain climber
citizen of planet Earth
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Take responsibility for what Wandoof?
Learn by doing Dr. J, git on up there and climb the damn thing.
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Rhodo-Router
Gym climber
obsessively minitracking all winter at Knob Hill
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A someone who has been held up on our route of choice by folks who had decided to 'learn by doing', I would respectfully suggest that nOObs do so in a place where their learning process will have no impact on those who have a certain ledge they need to get to that night.
I don't have a problem with folks gumbying up stuff in epic, high-learning-curve style; as wanda mentions, if you know yourself to be one of those persons, simple consideration dictates that you do this in a way that will minimize effects on others.
So learning to haul on the Nose is right f*cking out.
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WandaFuca
Social climber
From the gettin' place
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i
dee ee
ot
Everybody has a right to climb El Cap.
But if you haven't put in the time to become good enough to attempt it without likely ruining someone else's rightful experience, then you should be RESPONSIBLE and respectful enough to wait and work to get good enough.
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