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Lynne Leichtfuss
Trad climber
valley center, ca
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Chris Mac,
Great idea ! I was just thinking today now that I'm back from FaceLift how I could do what you just did.
Wanted to tell everyone this book is Most Definetly a Total Winner and anyone interested in Incredible pics and Super well written and hilarious stories should get one asap.
My sister doesn't even climb and she was roaring over a J. Long story. I'll let you discover which one.....
I was Lucky enough to have most every one sign mine at the FaceLift. I appreciate all you Gals and Guys for your autographs. Still need a few more.
One of several favorites was Potter's....."Keeping alive Stonemasters....the next generation." So very Cool.
Peace and Joy, Lynne
EDIT: Superior job Mike Graham, Dean Fidelman and John Long.
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midarockjock
climber
USA
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Great book news, and I like the site.
BES
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Slakkey
Big Wall climber
From Back to Big Wall Baby
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This is a great book, got mine at the Facelift / Stonemasters show. Signed by Mike Graham, Largo, Ron Kauk, Mark Chapman Did not get bullwinkle. maybe in the future. Well worth it all involved did an excellent job.
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Trad climber
valley center, ca
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ekat, yo so far away......if you get a book and send it to me and give me 6 months perhaps I can get some of the autos for you. Just an idea. Peace, lynne
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graham
Social climber
Ventura, California
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Chris,
Thanks a lot for consolidating and posting this. much appreciated!
To Lynne and everyone thanks for the comments.
Kathy our books are signed by both Dean and John and are ready to ship now.
Please take the time to check out our Limited edition set. It's a beautiful package designed to help fulfill John Bachar's wishes for his son Tyrus's education. These copies are moving so we don't expect them to last forever.
For those of you who wish to see the book in person they will be available in all Patagonia retail stores for purchase. They were very gracious to preorder many copies from us and are involved in offering some of our Limited edition's as well.
We have some great projects in the works. John Long has been working with some of the most inspiring free climbers of today to bring you some incredible new stories.
A special thanks from all us at here at Stonemaster Press for your support.
Cheers,
Mike Graham
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Blitzo
Social climber
Earth
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Winkie just sent me a couple copies. It's wonderful!
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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hey there say... bump... great idea chris... some day, i'll have to find a way to get one too....
they won't run out, will they... ?
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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a small band of Southern Californians...
Uh, Southern Californians, what about the climbers from the Bay Area? And elsewhere to boot.
For example, I always thought Chappie and Ron were from the Bay Area.
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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hey there patrick.. say, chappy is from san jose...
but say, do you reckon though, they might have said that since he is from southern calif, now, though---but still, "in the day" he was from the bay-areas, as i think san jose, is kind of considerered as such)
not sure where ron is from...
interesting history note, though, as to where he's from, as he did grow up in "old orchardy", san jose... ('til it turned into part of silicon valley)...
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Patrick, what you mention is covered in there, check out the book.
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Trad climber
Will know soon
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Idea: Holidays approaching and some of yo birthdays. Most guys when asked what they want for a gift generally reply, "I don't know and drive their wives, girlfriends and sig. others Crazy !!!
When they ask this yeat just say StoneMasters Book and give them the website to purchase. It's up top in Chris Mac's first post.
Trust a gift buyer for guys.....they will love you and YOU Mon will get what you want...a super gift. Just thinking ahead. :D
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Redlands
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Checked my mail today bump.
Please take the time to check out our Limited edition set. It's a beautiful package designed to help fulfill John Bachar's wishes for his son Tyrus's education. These copies are moving so we don't expect them to last forever.
Looky here:
Awesome. Don't miss your chance.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
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Mine is #002. Arrived a couple of days ago.
A beautiful book, Thanks guys...
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Oct 10, 2009 - 10:39pm PT
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Jaybro, I have not seen the book, I was just quoting from the publisher's blurb, or whatever. I am still not impressed. What the f*ck is a stonemaster? California, Washington State, the Northeast, the Gunks, ???? The Alps, Dolomites, Himalayas, Andes???
Nazis that climb the Eigerwand in 'primitive' gear, just as one example? Idolize who you want. I don't.
Go figure.
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Trad climber
Will know soon
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Oct 10, 2009 - 10:55pm PT
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Patrick, it was a crazy, beautiful, discovery period of the rock, the people and the happening. It unfolded. No one created it. Kinda like the real Woodstock. No need to be thinking to much ..... it was a time and a place that will never be again.
Sure, more could have been included, but that's not the point. I know a few candidates .... but it wasn't about that. It was about a few that met, learned, somehow survived and became legend. I watched. Peace, lynne
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Oct 10, 2009 - 11:02pm PT
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Sorry Lynne, but BS.
EDIT
Hold on to your illusions. Good luck, sincerely.
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Trad climber
Will know soon
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Oct 10, 2009 - 11:16pm PT
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Patrick, Sweet bro, no bs, we were there and it was life and one special time.
My husband and I participated in a bit of it, so did our four kiddos. It's a take. We all have different takes on life. But a good bit of eyes here watched it happen.
Your take from seeing it go down may be different. Hey, enjoy the life you have.
I love watchin' On Sight, I would never diss those UK Dudes and what they do .... they are creating their own UK Stonemasters.
Peace, lynnie
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Double D
climber
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Oct 11, 2009 - 12:15am PT
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The book ROCKS! Hats off to Largo, Dean, Mike, Rick and all who contributed. Very classy.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Oct 11, 2009 - 07:36am PT
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Lynne, I see your point of view, I was there for some of it too, but it smacks of the cult of celebrity.
Down through the decades, mountaineering has seen some important times and movements and people. The 1970s were no different in that sense. Not in Yosemite or anywhere.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Oct 11, 2009 - 01:27pm PT
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Objective Journalism, there, Patrick?
I dunno, my feeling is the book is about a time and place much more than it is about individuals, though you'd have to read it to see that. My impression was that it did, for the mid seventies California scene much that the Book Climb! did for Colorado. I was part of both scenes.
It put me back there, to what those times felt like. I suspect that it would have done that for you too had you not copped the perfunctory 'tude.
Guess we'll (you'll) never know, now.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Oct 11, 2009 - 01:35pm PT
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Hey Jay, I don't know, I admit that. But my point is that there is a cult of celebrity around these guys when we all, in our own ways, contributed to climbing. I have the money and time to bring a certain climber to Ireland to have him present his contribution to climbing, but I find his arrogance a bit off-putting. So no lectures or slideshows. And I have retired from work this week so maybe I will get more climbing in.
For example, on Mount Diablo, that piece of sh#t sandstone where you and I both cut our teeth, Claude Fiddler and I, and perhaps you and others, pushed the limits on that rock and freed some aid routes that other 'pioneers' pushed.
Or in Columbia College, in the Arboretum, I was the one that pushed and did the problem, whatever it is called nowadays, and there is a name to it because one the Yosemite boys came and did it first, bullsh#t, I did as far as I know (ask Claude or David Yerian), and my knowledge is pretty good. That said, climbing should be about joy, not 'firsts'.
Am I being arrogant like the 'climber' I mentioned earlier in this post. I hope not. But my point is that many of us on this forum have contributed to climbing. BTW, I am a shite climber (5.11 at best) but a great belayer, with the one exception.
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looking sketchy there...
Social climber
Latitute 33
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Oct 11, 2009 - 01:53pm PT
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The Stonemasters Book exceeded my expectations in many ways and captured a time and the individuals who were really at the forefront of a sea change in free climbing. There are always a few climbers that are not only emblematic of their generation, but are able to move the sport in a new direction and who have a huge influence on the rest of us. And there are those enchanted beings who bless the climbing world and become the stuff of lore.
No one can deny that the free climbing revolution of the 70s and early 80s reverberated throughout the World. Climbers like Bachar were hugely influential, and for good reason. And it is more than fitting that legendary figures like Yabo and Tobin have some of their exploits and personalities recorded for posteriety.
This is our own history -- not everyone's. Just as the stories of the Golden Age era climbers like Robbins, Chouinard, Frost, Pratt, Kamps, etc have been coming forth -- and are a vital part of our history and who we are as climbers -- so too the Stonemasters and the era and universal striving it/they represented is not only worthy of such a work, but essential.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Oct 11, 2009 - 02:33pm PT
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By the way, I am in no way trying to dismiss the work of a lot of great climbers in the Valley or elsewhere. For example, I remember the freeing of The Folly, The Good Book, (Kevin/Warbler, weren't you on that one), with the rockfall and such, watching you guys was impressive, and inspiring.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Oct 11, 2009 - 02:35pm PT
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You may be on to something Patrick; us regular guys are always gonna be regular guys, but I think that's an issue separate from the book. Maybe it's own thread. I like the shadows better....
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Oct 11, 2009 - 02:48pm PT
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The Shadows, a good name for a climb, but you know, only The Shadow knows.
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Trad climber
Will know soon
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Oct 11, 2009 - 05:27pm PT
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Yo sully, thanks for my vote !!!&&&777
You never know what's going on behind the scenes or in a person's life, or in the person......jess sayin'. Know all those Dudes are good. If I can help in anyway email me. Peace, lynnie
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Oct 11, 2009 - 05:55pm PT
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That's the beauty of the shadow!
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dogtown
Trad climber
JackAssVille, Wyoming
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Oct 11, 2009 - 08:40pm PT
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John;
I received my second copy of The StoneMasters book this week book #004. I just wanted to say what a nice job you and Dean did on this project. I’m a third generation Lithographer, and the printing and finish on this publication is as good as I have ever seen. Happy to help Tyrus. Hope they sell out!
Bruce.
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dogtown
Trad climber
JackAssVille, Wyoming
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Oct 11, 2009 - 09:58pm PT
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Just a note. For Us, The StoneMasters book is about a bunch of So Cal boys that went to No Cal and changed the Rock Climbing World For ever! Only the names of Salathe, Harding, Frost, Robbins and Chouinard loom larger as a group, In the vertical world of stone.
Bruce
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Russ Walling
Gym climber
Poofter's Froth, Wyoming
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Oct 11, 2009 - 10:52pm PT
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Really good book! Congrats on getting it done guys! Finally a pictorial and written record for that special time and the players in the game. Superb!
C'mon Patrick.... you over there drinking sour grapes or something?
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Gobee
Trad climber
Los Angeles
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Oct 12, 2009 - 03:52pm PT
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Largo/ Bullwinkle,
Thanks for putting your book together, it's great! But John did you take the juice?
Cheers, Gobee
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dogtown
Trad climber
JackAssVille, Wyoming
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Oct 13, 2009 - 12:53am PT
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Jaybro wrote; You may be on to something Patrick; us regular guys are always gonna be regular guys, but I think that's an issue separate from the book. Maybe it's own thread. I like the shadows better....
Jay leading Paisano (12.C)
More like legends both of you!
Dogtown.
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Captain...or Skully
Social climber
Idaho, also. Sorta, kinda mostly, Yeah.
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Oct 13, 2009 - 01:00am PT
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The Really Cool thing is that we can count the Greats as our friends......
I REALLY dig that.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Oct 13, 2009 - 01:01am PT
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Cryptic words from an alleged shadowdweller who has climbed Paisano, cheers, Dawg!
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dogtown
Trad climber
JackAssVille, Wyoming
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Oct 13, 2009 - 01:16am PT
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Not to mention The Owl Roof and the FA of Lucille. Oh and one only needs to look in ANY Yosemite Guide book to see how many times Patrick’s name is listed. Just a couple of regular dudes.
I’m laughing so hard. Think I pissed.
Dogtown.
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Binks
Social climber
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Oct 15, 2009 - 05:11pm PT
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It's a really great book. Reminds me of Dogtown and Z boys. But the Stonemasters were much more hardcore and in tune than those skaters IMO.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Oct 15, 2009 - 05:18pm PT
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Yikes, stay away and you get outed. noted my sponsers; Misty mtn threadworks, and Merry pigglettes (? of jackson, wyo.) Also note that, I think the Dog told me, he'd climbed Paisano, as well.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Oct 16, 2009 - 12:24pm PT
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Dogtown, I wasn't mentioning myself, and no I am not a great climber (and never said I was, Dogbreath) just that in my time in the Valley in the mid-1970s, I met some top climbers from places other than So Cal, climbers that also had a big contribution to rock climbing (perhaps as big), so please, for your own sake, do not be so damn parochial.
And I was not, and am not, dissing anybody, regardless of where they are from, it is just this self-worth thing is a bit tiring, if that is the correct word.
Think I pissed
Dogtown, a bit of incontinence perhaps?
And in my opinion, you do a great disservice to top climbers from places other than So Cal, in fact by dismissing the contribution of non-So Cal climbers, it is you who are dissing other climbers. Wake up and smell the coffee, it use to be in the Lodge Cafeteria, did you miss out on that?
One more thing, it seems to me (and I could be wrong) that you have bought into the 'cult of celebrity' by glorifying certain people. Sad.
So Cal is not the center of the universe. Sorry to burst your bubble.
I think you have misread what I have originally written.
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ron gomez
Trad climber
fallbrook,ca
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Oct 16, 2009 - 01:26pm PT
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I must be reading the tiltle wrong, I thought it's subtitle is "CALIFORNIA climbers of the seventies", true there are many others from all around that contributed, but the book is focusing on CALIFORNIA climbers, maybe someone should write an equally good book on OTHER climbers of the seventies!
It's a GOOD book either way, enjoy it for what it is!
Peace
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Oct 16, 2009 - 02:23pm PT
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"And in my opinion, you do a great disservice to top climbers from places other than So Cal, in fact by dismissing the contribution of non-So Cal climbers, it is you who are dissing other climbers."
WTF, are you talking about? Who dismissed non socal climbers? Take your foot out of your mouth and read the book, I'd send you one if I could....
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Oct 16, 2009 - 04:51pm PT
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Hey Jay, I have already admitted not reading the book, but I was not commenting on the book's contents but on what was posted. So lighten up or go the loo.
The Stonemasters: California Climbers in the Seventies, chronicles the meteoric rise of a small band of Southern Californians who...
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graham
Social climber
Ventura, California
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Oct 16, 2009 - 05:43pm PT
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Some interesting comments all…
I think the beauty of the book or as I heard it called today, “Magic” is that it lacks ego. I can’t think of anywhere in it that boasts of difficulty or dismisses other people or areas. It’s just a story book of a fun era and it’s unfortunate with only so many pages not everyone could be included.
Our next book will focus beyond it to the present state of climbing in Yosemite. Perhaps calling it “Valley Climbers” will make it seem exclusionary - I don’t know? Hope not, as Yosemite one melting pot of a larger world.
It’s cool to see the posts of the Limited Editions photos. They’re moving well, we’re shipping #020 now so at this rate we could sell out sooner than we expected.
Anyway thanks for all the interest and ALL the comments.
Cheers
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looking sketchy there...
Social climber
Latitute 33
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Oct 16, 2009 - 06:21pm PT
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So Cal is not the center of the universe. Sorry to burst your bubble.
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH NNNOOO!
Why did you have to burst my bubble.
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rbolton
Social climber
The home for...
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Oct 16, 2009 - 06:30pm PT
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Did he say...NOT...the...center.............
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Oct 16, 2009 - 06:46pm PT
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The next volume on the docket (The Valley Climbers: Yosemite's Vertical Revolution) will bring us right up to the present, with a stack of outstanding stories about modern day speed ascents, free climbing big walls, enchainments (more than one big climb in a day), freesoloing walls, et al. And of course the photos for these modern climbs are stunning.
We're having a very interesting time putting these projects together, since we're doing a slightly different animal in terms of integrating the narrative, pictoral and design elements.
We have high hopes that The Valley Climbers will break some new ground. I was amazed with how seriously many top climbers have taken the project, really putting their hearts and souls into the stories, many of which are unique.
Our third offering - Rats (as in Wall Rats) - looks at the huge and often dangerous artificial routes (big time "nail ups) world wide, from El Cap to Mt. Asgard and beyond. We just started collecting and editing the initial stories and you talk about blockbusters . . .
More later.
JL
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Batrock
Trad climber
Burbank
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Oct 16, 2009 - 06:53pm PT
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I received my copy yesterday and brought it to the fire station today and am reading it between calls. This is a great book that takes me back in time to my "glory days" in the 80's at Josh and Suicide. There is something guttural in all those stories and experiences that really brings back the sights, sounds and smells of climbing BITD.
Thanks
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dogtown
Trad climber
JackAssVille, Wyoming
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Wow, I really toxicated some sh#t on this thread. No?
Dogbreath.
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Fletcher
Trad climber
somewhere approaching Ajna
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Wow, I am really looking to those next two volumes, JL. Shades of Rock Jocks, Wall Rats, and Hang Dogs.
Mille Grazie!
Eric
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Todd Gordon
Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
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I now have my copy;....it's excellent, and the story of the Stonemasters is rich, facinating, inspiring, and entertaining....
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Double D
climber
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It simply ROCKS! It doesn't diminish in any way the contributions from far corners of the earth but paints a hilarious picture what climbing was like in general back in the day and the roots of mis-adventure that spawned many epic climbs.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Rokjox, I understand what you were saying and by no means whatsoever would I look to play down the contribution of any climber or group of climbers, I just remember some very good Colorado and East Coast climbers pushing the limits as well, both in Yosemite and on their home turf, besides some very good climbers who were from north of the Tehachapis. And I must add that I never was in any of those top tier groups, but I had the pleasure to climb with some of them.
And yes, I agree, congrats on the book lads.
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Nov 30, 2009 - 12:48am PT
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just walked in the door after a 500 mile drive home and found a limited edition copy of the stonemaster book waiting for me. holy cow what a handsome volume. if anyone out there collects L.E. books, or climbing books in general, this thing is a steal and there were only 300 printed. yer gonna hate yourself if you don't snap one of these up.
oh yeah -- the material in the book is pretty good too! i need to take a shower and go to bed, but there's no point in trying. gonna be up all night thumbing through this beauty.
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Bullwinkle
Boulder climber
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Nov 30, 2009 - 01:03am PT
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BVB, I hope that you enjoy the work. . .you were there. . .df
edit; MP, Shawn Curtis's Art adds so much soul to the mix, thank you for helping me recover his amazing work. . .
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Watusi
Social climber
Newport, OR
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Nov 30, 2009 - 02:44am PT
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Yeah, a definite masterwork! It had me torn between laughter at times and tears as well for some of my fallen friends...But all the while grateful to have witnessed much of this time, and to have known most that were mentioned personally. All were instrumental in inspiring me and my San Diego climbing mates! Much thanks, and once again, stellar work. Michael Paul.
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Watusi
Social climber
Newport, OR
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Nov 30, 2009 - 06:04pm PT
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Bump for this amazing piece of history...
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rmuir
Social climber
the Time Before the Rocks Cooled.
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Dec 31, 2009 - 08:19pm PT
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Today, in the mail, I get a belated Xmas gift from my sister. A bunch of old memories from my folk's house... Included was a copy of a book about Galen Clark that I must have sent them years ago. In the back was an 8"x10" B&W which I haven't seen for thirty years or more.
From the original Suicide Party, circa 1974. Same day that the Low Pressure shot was taken. No telling where at the base this was taken and, no, this wasn't my usual garb! Strictly a foppish costume using a Greek wedding shirt. But the bandana is genuine.
Dean... Add this to your collection!
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Dec 31, 2009 - 08:21pm PT
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HOOOO MAAAANN robs you're looking SWANK!
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KP Ariza
climber
SCC
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Dec 31, 2009 - 10:34pm PT
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Great book! My wifes folks got it for me for Xmas (pleasant surprise). In one excerpt Lynn Hill tells of a boltless fa on Fairview that her and Yabo did, I think it's a fascinating story and I was wondering if anyone knows anything more about this climb?
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Deemed Useless
Social climber
Ca.
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Mar 31, 2010 - 10:35am PT
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I just ordered a copy... can't wait! One of my all time fave shorts is by Mr. Long "The Green Arch". Anyway, regardless of genre I put him up on my list of best "American writers" including Hemingway, Stienbeck, Hunter S. Thompson. I don't care that his books mostly deal with climbing and adventure sports, da man can spin a good tale!
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Spanky
Social climber
boulder co
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Jul 27, 2014 - 01:27pm PT
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Hey all just an FYI
some folks had mentioned that the stone master book is getting quite hard to find. The patagonia store in boulder had 2 copies when I was in there the other day so if anyone out there is still looking for one they might still have it. Its an amazing book so get em while they are hot.
cheers
Dan
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TwistedCrank
climber
Released into general population, Idaho
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Aug 21, 2014 - 05:04pm PT
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Update on the get em while they last availability:
I saw three copies today 8/21 in the Patagonia Outlet in Dillon, MT.
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TYeary
Social climber
State of decay
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Jun 27, 2015 - 03:02pm PT
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I always thought the criteria for "Stonemaster" was anyone who had led Valhalla, was an arrogant punk and smoked copious amounts of bunk weed....
By '74 the "club" had expanded, under those criteria, considerably.
TY
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TYeary
Social climber
State of decay
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Jun 27, 2015 - 03:41pm PT
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I didn't really get to the Valley till 75-76, but hung out with the "crew" at Tahquitz/ Suicide from 73-75 semi-regularly. And you are right Kevin,( in my opinion) the weed, even then was anything but bunk. It was a direct contributor to the many skate board comps and blood and contusions, down the hill from the parking area.
But perhaps I was a lightweight...
TY
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rmuir
Social climber
From the Time Before the Rocks Cooled.
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Jun 27, 2015 - 04:24pm PT
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^^^^^
For the record, the house we lived in on Seventh Street in Riverside was the NORML headquarters leading up to the elections of 1972. ;-)
To make matters somewhat more complicated, one of my roommates was "seeing" the (very) young daughter of the Riverside County Sheriff at the time… He wasn't at all happy about this.
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SteveW
Trad climber
The state of confusion
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Jun 27, 2015 - 07:50pm PT
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I checked on Bookfinder.com, they started at $178, went up to $656.
I'm knot sellin' mine!
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Bullwinkle
Boulder climber
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Jun 28, 2015 - 12:14am PT
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Glad you enjoyed the Book KW, please don't throw away your old Fotos!
I did Vallhalla with Tobin and Bachar, it was Tobins second time and Me and Jacks first. I did it again the next week with Erick E and Bachar, this would have been '73 or very early '74, I fell all over it, but sent. I was going on trips to the Valley as Tobins belayer and partner in crime by late 72. . .df
Edit, nope that's me in the photo, all the captions in the Book are correct. . .df
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Roger Breedlove
climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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Jun 28, 2015 - 08:31am PT
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Great perpectives on the early years of the Stonemasters. For readers who are interested, here is a visual of Valley free first acsents, measured by first acsentenists, with the Stonemasters contrbution shown in light blue: hugely prolific with some of the most iconic Valley climbs.
Great photo Robbs. Any thing white was cool attire, which gave way to any thing cool was cool attire. The humour of those days was part of the tribe's DNA.
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Jun 28, 2015 - 01:27pm PT
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"my point is that there is a cult of celebrity around these guys when we all, in our own ways, contributed to climbing"--Patrick Sawyer
In the early seventies, in my self-imposed exile to the flats, having married, I gradually became aware via the climbing mags and discussions at TNF's Telegraph shop in Berkeley of REAL HARDMEN from SoCal taking up space in the headlines, in Camp 4, in BASECAMP, in the "letters from correspondents" received from various Yosemite "regulars." They were, of course, the SM guys, especially Accomazzo and Largo, whose names were, for me, the most memorable, along with Tobin, of course, the REAL LEGEND.
They came, they impressed the denizens already in place--Bridwell, Pettigrew, them Oregon folks, Roger, Luke, Werner, and more...and MATHIS? Of course, Mathis. He had BEEN MARRIED, gone climbing instead, stuck with it, thrived--and I sincerely wish that I'd stuck around, celibate or not, but free of encumbrances of that nature, to do more of what I came to Yosemite to do in the first place.
This is a wonderful thread, tangled like an old Edelrid spaghetti, but which will gradually reveal itself below the ledge where we all now sit, in spite of the kinks, the quality of the smoke, or the relatively low altitude.
Fantasia was Chouinard's best rope pattern, and EBs were God shoes.
Clean climbing was still "optional."
Guys were working out 11b and c.
Glory days, at least for some.
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Roger Breedlove
climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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Jun 28, 2015 - 01:53pm PT
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Kevin,
My take on "Stonemaster" is that there are multiple meanings. Your comments reveal the problems with this.
Broadly speaking, as my chart shows, the individual climbers know as "Stonemasters" were only a part of early 70's climbing. For example, Barry Bates and Mark Klemons, who started 70's free climbing have never been considered Stonemasters. The same is true of Peter Haan, Steve Wunsch, and Jim Donini, to name a few more well know 70s climbers.
So if "Stonemaster" is applied to all the fine climbing starting in 1970, it is wrong on two counts: most of the early 70s did not identify themselves as part of the "Stonemasters" and climbed most climbed before the "Stonemasters" arrived. Many 70s climbers simply didn't share the Stonemasters personal characteristics.
On the other hand, if the term refers to the original SoCal climbers who led Valhalla, much of the best climbing in the Valley is missing: it would devolve into Long's and Bachar's climbs. This would still be impressive, but there were lots of others making contributions. In any case nobody from those Valley days has the chutzpah to brand just themselves the way John has branded Stonemasters. Stonemasters has to be applied to a larger group to gets its legs.
John seems to split the difference in defining Stonemasters as Jim's new boys. As one of JIm's "old" boys, this makes sense. Jim always collected the best talent he could, and he liked the name "Stonemasters" and their unbridled enthusiasm.
The only issue with this, as you pointed out, is that it's not good history.
It is interesting to compare the 50s and 60s. Roper was able to project a sense of Valley climbing while including everyone of note. He did this by grounding everything he wrote in the actual climbing, which by definition leaves out some juicy stories. That culture extended into the early 70s by Bridwell, who managed to get the best out of all of us, while opening the gates to anyone new with talent and desire.
I'm on a train going back to NY so please excuse my typos.
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TYeary
Social climber
State of decay
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Jun 28, 2015 - 02:26pm PT
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"In America, legend and celebrity usually wins... "
An astute and accurate observation.
I could be wrong here, and no disrespect to Largo, whom I count as a friend, but wasn't it John who once uttered, " never let the truth get in the way of a good story." Perhaps that quote too, is just more legend and celebrity than fact.
TY
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Roger Breedlove
climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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Jun 28, 2015 - 02:38pm PT
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Thanks Kevin.
The test of leading Valhalla to be a member of the original Stonemasters has to be accepted as correct--they set the rules. But I know of at least one other climber who led Valhalla before any Stonemaster and, who I am pretty sure was not a Stonemaster: Bud Couch. Did John do the second ascent?
I searched to see when Bob Kamps climbed Valhalla, but it was in 1977.
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Jun 28, 2015 - 03:20pm PT
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Kevin, I readily admit to being skewed, as I readily admit to being scared.
I cold never have mustered the mustard to lead Valhalla, nor really think I'd have been a plus factor in an ascent of New Dimenshucks, even.
The "trio" of names is really much larger than those three, it's just the ravages of time on my memory, one which did not include ANY contact with ANY of these aliens from Tahquitz/Suicide. By the time I'd begun climbing THERE, these gents seem to have vanished and gone to the Valley, so that's no wonder. Nor did I come across any of them when visiting Josh.
As I say, this discussion is very worthwhile, and thank yous to you and Roger and Tony, who I met last Facelift, as I hope to meet you in the not too distant future.
Stay well, climb high.
Colombian was the NorCal "brand." What were you smokin'?
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Roger Breedlove
climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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Jun 28, 2015 - 04:10pm PT
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To support one of your post upthread, here are the numbers for total first ascents for the most prolific climbers in the early 70s--non-Stonemasters--and the Stonemasters. I include the middle 60s graph to capture Jim's massive contribution.
These graphs don't count climbs beyond about 1980. Here is the list of all climber's first ascents up to about 1980.
Here is the count of first ascents per climber included in the data base up to 1980 (down to 5). I have in my head that Jim had something like 90s ascents. Did Jim do 12 ascents since 1980?
Jim Bridwell 78
Chuck Pratt 47
Ray Jardine 47
Warren Harding 40
Kevin Worrall 40
Royal Robbins 38
Frank Sacherer 37
Rick Sylvester 33
Dale Bard 32
Bob Kamps 31
Mark Chapman 31
Rick Cashner 30
Mark Klemens 29
Don Reid 28
Yvon Chouinard 26
Ron Kauk 26
Mark Powell 25
Steve Roper 25
George Meyers 25
John Long 24
Kim Schmitz 22
Charlie Porter 22
Wally Reed 21
Tom Frost 21
Chris Fredericks 21
Ken Boche 20
Glen Denny 19
Barry Bates 19
Bill Price 19
Jim Donini 18
TM Herbert 17
Chris Cantwell 16
Galen Rowell 15
Jerry Anderson 15
Steve Wunsch 15
John Lakey 15
Bruce Morris 14
Les Wilson 13
Rik Rieder 13
Ed Barry 13
Jim Beyer 13
Layton Kor 12
John Bragg 12
John Bachar 12
Eric Beck 11
Chris Falkenstein 11
Bruce Pollock 11
Al MacDonald 10
G.B. Harr 10
Joe Faint 10
Matt Donohoe 10
Mike Breidenbach 10
Vern Cleavenger 10
Dick Long 9
Tom Higgins 9
Loyd Price 9
Roger Breedlove 9
Jim Pettigrew 9
Werner Braun 9
Dick McCracken 8
Wolfgang Heinritz 8
Greg Schaffer 8
Bob Ashworth 8
Bruce Hawkins 8
Peter Haan 8
George Sessions 7
Herb Swedlund 7
Gary Colliver 7
Gordon Webster 7
Tom Fender 7
Tom Gerughty 7
Jerry Coe 7
Bruce Price 7
Rab Carrington 7
Richard Harrison 7
Bob Sullivan 7
George Whitmore 6
Jim Wilson 6
Merle Alley 6
Bill Feuerer 6
Krehe Ritter 6
Rich Calderwood 6
Dave McFadden 6
Joe McKeown 6
Andrzej Ehernfeucht 6
Dave Trantor 6
Dave Bircheff 6
Don Peterson 6
Pete Livesey 6
Henry Barber 6
Tobin Sorenson 6
John Yablonski 6
Tony Dailley 6
Dave Anderson 6
Dave Altman 6
Angie Morales 6
Don Goodrich 5
Jim Baldwin 5
Andy Lichtman 5
Rob Foster 5
Tim Fitzgerald 5
Jim Madsen 5
Bev Johnson 5
Peter Barton 5
Mark Moore 5
Linda McGinnis 5
Hugh Burton 5
Dennis Oakeshott 5
Rick Accomazzo 5
Larry Zulim 5
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TYeary
Social climber
State of decay
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Jun 28, 2015 - 04:13pm PT
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^^^^^^
Couch Bud, for the win.
Those were heady days.
TY
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WBraun
climber
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Jun 28, 2015 - 04:53pm PT
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StoneMasters in Yosemite had not much to do with climbing.
It was a climber Gang like the mafia ... :-)
Numbers runners, ... sandbag ratings :-)
Long run outs to scare the sh!t out of people :-)
Bad anchors to scare the sh!t out of people :-)
Fast cars, loose women, and lots of booze and weed :-)
Baseball and football team :-)
The only camp site with electricity in it.
Reel to reel stereo system.
Light bulbs and electric blankets ..:-)
Etc etc etc etc .....mwahahaha .... :-)
And more stories that are unfit to be heard by today's delicate little fertile minds :-)
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phylp
Trad climber
Upland, CA
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Jun 28, 2015 - 04:59pm PT
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I really enjoyed reading these new contributions to this thread. Thanks for the history Warbler.
You have made a number of great points about the distinction between storytelling and reporting.
Phyl
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climber bob
Social climber
maine
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Jun 29, 2015 - 05:03am PT
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I cant seem to get to the correct link to buy the book..any help appreciated
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Prezwoodz
climber
Anchorage
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Jun 29, 2015 - 06:07am PT
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Yeah try Amazon or Chesslers but good luck. This book is gold now! I'm super happy to have gotten mine at the recent fundraiser!
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Roger Breedlove
climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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Jun 29, 2015 - 06:31am PT
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Kevin, back to leading Valhalla, apparently #4 didn't make the cut either. I thought Bud was cool, but that probably meant automatic disqualification for membership.
Since Roper's histories, most Valley history is focused on personalities and stories, rather than who climbed what. Most of the real history is inculded in posts here on Supertopo, but it is getting harder to dig it out. It took me 1/2 an hour to find the thread below--I couldn't remember any detials to search for.
The graphs I posted up-thread were part of the thread I wrote titled Ebs & Flows: Booms & Busts: Valley FAs 1954-1980
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climber bob
Social climber
maine
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Jun 29, 2015 - 06:47am PT
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got it..looking forward to it..thanks
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Bullwinkle
Boulder climber
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Jun 29, 2015 - 11:05am PT
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The StoneMasters Book was never meant to be a History of Yosemite Climbing in the 70's. In fact The StoneMasters themselves are a creation of John Long, an expanding circle of Friends that all shared a rope or reefer together in the Valley and beyond.
This Book is one of Largos best works, he put together a Beautiful narrative from many voices not just his. We asked a number of People to Contribute to this Book, many answered with essays and photographs, some choose not to respond.
Personally it's more Art than History, feeling than Fact, a Dream I shared with my Friends, a Journey we took Together. . .df
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Jun 29, 2015 - 12:21pm PT
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The Stonemaster book was fashioned around Dean's photos and was his vision from the start. I didn't write anything exclusively for the project but just chunked in stories I'd done over the years. And included anything from others that was relevant and good enough. Because Dean was part of the small, So Cal hard core, most of his photos were about that group, and the stories revoled around same. In this regards the Stonemaster book served as a kind of artistic dumpster for both Dean's pics and our stories. We were never attempting a definitive history - I have never been drawn to journalism (imparting facts, figures and information). I do narratives, which focus on people and encounters.
A historical, journalist project (like Roper's Camp 4, but about the 1970s) is needed to build an accurate picture because our book was just a window into a small group and what they did and how they lived. I showed and mentioned that eventually we had no exclusive "Stonemaster" lore or history but I never attempted to tell stories that were not my own.
There are dozen's of possible Stonemaster books told from dozens of angles and perspectives. We did one told from our experience and POV, and the mojo of the project was wrought through its personal delivery.
I would encourage anyone who has anythng to say to have at doing your own Stonemaster book. I'll buy the first copy off the press.
JL
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Jun 29, 2015 - 12:36pm PT
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our book was just a window into a small group and what they did and how they lived.
I regret you weren't able to make it to Oakdale two years ago, Largo. You were missed by those who know you. Mebbe next time.
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johntp
Trad climber
socal
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Jun 29, 2015 - 04:08pm PT
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This book is gold now!
Guess I should stop using it as a coaster....
edit: will this go into reprint or is it done?
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Roger Breedlove
climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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Jun 29, 2015 - 04:47pm PT
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John, I agree that your and Dean's fine book is about the Stonemasters as we know them and not a history of 70's California climbing. But if most people think that 70s climbing is the climbing of the Stonemasters, then Stonemasters climbing becomes 70s climbing.
You are feeding that fire when you urge anyone to write your own Stonemaster book.
Here is the marketing blurb that opens this thread: The Stonemasters: California Climbers in the Seventies, chronicles the meteoric rise of a small band of Southern Californians who, beginning in the early 1970s, radically altered the course of world rock climbing, and virtually invented the gonzo culture of modern adventure sports. With over one hundred thirty historical photos, along with the landmark essays and stories of John Long (and others), The Stonemasters bring to life the legendary personalities, the victories and the tragedies that set the adventure revolution in motion.
I know it is marketing but apparently a small group of So Cal climbers radically altered the course of world rock climbing and set the adventure revolution in motion.
I think that it makes more sense to tell everyone that you own the trademark rights to "Stonemasters" (even if you don't) and that they have to come up with their own catch phrase.
If I every write the history of early 70s valley climbing, I am going to call it "Camp 4a."
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Jun 29, 2015 - 05:34pm PT
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Roger, I think the only reason that Stonemaster climbing became 70s climbing is that few people from that era bothered to write narratives about their experiences back then. And merely running down a laundry list of facts and figures and trip reports will never be remembered like narratives. No matter how accurately you quantify history, readers keep flipping ahead, looking for the people. The solution to fleshing out the historical record is not in doing a book report (info) on the good old days, but IMO, can only happen once others write up their personal stories.
JL
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WBraun
climber
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Jun 29, 2015 - 06:24pm PT
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once others write up their personal stories.
The modern politically correct climbers here can't handle most of the stories.
Except for true hard men like Russ Walling etc ...
Their feeble little overly sensitive brains would explode.
They'd piss in their pants.
OMFG !!!!! WTF !!!! they'd cry
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Prezwoodz
climber
Anchorage
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Jun 29, 2015 - 06:28pm PT
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I've really enjoyed reading the Stonemaster book and all the history during those days. I wasn't around then. Also the book is one of the best designed and most aesthetic I've seen. I'd love to do one similar on Alaska.
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rmuir
Social climber
From the Time Before the Rocks Cooled.
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Jun 29, 2015 - 07:16pm PT
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If a spectacle is going to be particularly imposing I prefer to see it through somebody else's eyes, because that man will always exaggerate. Then I can exaggerate his exaggeration, and my account of the thing will be the most impressive.
— "O'Shah," Europe and Elsewhere, Mark Twain
Privileged to have started climbing in Berkeley only to move to Riverside in 1970, I straddled the climbing scenes in both Northern and Southern California. Talented climbers such as the Bards, Haan, Vandever, Clevenger, Rowell, Harding, et al., had f*ck-all little to climb locally; Yosemite was their local crag—four hours away. Down south, our local crags were Tahquitz and Suicide Rocks, and Josh. We each developed our respective areas as we, ourselves, developed.
It is only to be expected that locals were principally responsible for new route activity in the Valley, and Tahquitz/Suicide/Josh, respectively. The Valley locals were understandably more prolific there in FAs during this period. It is noteworthy, however, that many SoCal climbers had a significant impact on route development in Yosemite throughout the sixties and seventies. The Stonemasters were among them. The Valley was a unique draw. The Stonemasters migrated, enlarged, and were assimilated into the Valley scene, and their circle expanded to include others of like mind. Who were the Stonemasters then?
John and Dean's book is set of stories and images of a circle of lads who, jokingly, called themselves Stonemasters. While it is true that Mike maintained a book listing the first ten continuous ascents of Valhalla, Graham was never serious about the exclusivity of Stonemaster membership. A fellow Ski Mart employee threw out the term one night in my Costa Mesa apartment, and Mike drew up the lightning bolt overnight. It was a beach thing. One time over breakfast at the Baker in the Forest, a friend of mine bemoaned the fact that he wasn't a Stonemaster. I grabbed a joker from a deck of cards and used it to create a membership card for him to carry henceforth. We were just that serious!
The Stonemasters didn't exclude members of the Malibu crowd, Stoney Pointers, the West Ridge boys, or even the San Diego and Woodson folks. In many respects, the Stonemasters didn't exist except as a marketing construct that Johnny (and others) help promulgate until it got far beyond their control. (If you want to adhere strictly to historicity, you can write off Largo's pipe dream about "The Visitation by The Stonemaster" in Richard's basement… Psychedelics of many sorts can facilitate these near-religious phantasms. )
Ivan "Bud" Couch, whom we deeply respected, wasn't part of the "Stonemasters" primarily because he chose not to want to associate with us. Same with Dent, Reynolds, Powell, Higgins… Different generations; different circles of friends.
In some sense, the Stonemaster moniker is about as meaningful as today's Stone Monkeys. It's all hype, bluster, and puffery. But that doesn't negate the usefulness of the construct.
Much of the Stonemasters book is a snapshot of a relatively small group of associates who accomplished so much in such a meaningless, and ultimately trivial endeavor. We loved every minute of it. I'm glad that Dean and John got up the gumption to land that sucker on my coffee table!
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Jun 29, 2015 - 08:48pm PT
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Just to remind Kevin that I have offered to scan your old climbing negatives and slides to digital files for free...
I've done a bunch for Roger Breedlove, Ken Boche, Dave Yerian, Dave Rearick, Bonnie Kamps, Clint Cummins, Lynne Leichtfuss, and I'd do more (as long as my scanner holds up).
just send me an email to my STForum account and I'll reply with the details.
As for the data v. narrative... it is true that we like to hear stories, but some voices can dominate. I think the story on Sacherer that evolved on the STForum was indicative of a rather strong point-of-view. Learning about Sacherer I also learned about many climbers that were not so central to the prevailing history of Yosemite climbing in the late 50s and early 60s. However, when I look at modern climbing in the Valley I see the routes pioneered by those climbers have continued relevance.
Roger took the data that I burned out on creating and used it to fashion a narrative, and make a point about important contributions. I had a similar idea when I started but by the time I got to the end I had decided it would be wonderful if people used the data and create new stuff from it...
Also, getting the history "right" is important to people whose contributions were misreported in previous guidebooks, some famous eastern European climbers FA's were unattributed because of some font changes from one version to the next, making their names nearly unrecognizable. It is a loss to the story of climbing in Yosemite.
So while rote data collection might lack the ability to "tell a story" the objectiveness of that data provides a place to start to find bits of history that were not told, for some reason or another.
As far as the Stonemasters are concerned, it was a wonderful story and a fabulous book. We are still too close to the time to write a very good history devoid of our own personal points of view, though we all might have bits of the story that would be important for writing that history, if it ever gets written. Climbing is not so important a topic to most, though it is very important to us.
as far as getting a copy of the book, I saw one in the SF Patagonia store just a couple of weeks ago...
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Todd Eastman
climber
Bellingham, WA
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Jun 29, 2015 - 10:27pm PT
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The gusto of the Stonemasters seems akin to that of the Vulgarians in the Gunks a decade earlier. Lots of other fine climbers, but their stories of a small band of climbers became legendary.
American climbing is richer because of these stories...
... Duke, Duke, Duke!
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Jun 30, 2015 - 01:04am PT
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Well, I'm no valley historian, but if anyone wants to know more about The Scumbags, I got you covered. We'll go trip to trip, bong to bong, hit to hit, and tab to tab with anybody anytime. F*#kin' purple microdot and sh#t.
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Phantom X
Trad climber
Honeycomb Hideout
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Jun 30, 2015 - 10:17am PT
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Didn't the scumbags smoke pot and boulder at the beach at one time?
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looking sketchy there...
Social climber
Lassitude 33
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Jun 30, 2015 - 02:23pm PT
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More Scumbag history! Were they like the Sheep Buggers?
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Jun 30, 2015 - 03:09pm PT
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Tom Wolfe Looks Over His Notes
by Andrea Denhoed
“They’re calling it an archive,” Tom Wolfe points out. “It makes me feel very important.” Wolfe is standing next to an exhibit of his papers at the New York Public Library. In 2013, the library paid just over two million dollars for a hundred and ninety boxes of notebooks, manuscripts, and letters that belonged to Wolfe, a handful of which are on display in the pop-up exhibit “Becoming the Man in the White Suit,” which runs through Sunday, March 1st.
Up close, the suit appears ever so slightly yellowed around the buttons and the cuffs, like a newspaper clipping. Wolfe, who turns eighty-four on March 2nd, talks slowly but walks briskly. He pauses over various objects before offering exclamations of recognition and tentative identifications. “I don’t remember that at all,” he says, peering at one item. He takes in an old sketch, done in bold black pen, peppered with the words “Tom Wolfe” in various scripts. He points out a particularly tidy version as the one most like his current “serious signature.” Later, approached by a young man whose face flushes when they shake hands, Wolfe gives a fully calligraphic version of his autograph, with a large, vigorous swirl underneath, like a hurricane viewed from above and a bit to the side.
The stories that Wolfe tells about his career are well crafted by now, and some have become journalistic legend, but he delivers them as if for the first time. His first magazine assignment, for instance, “The Kandy-Kolored Tangerine-Flake Streamline Baby.” (Wolfe says the title quickly and effortlessly, like one long, krazy word.) He was in his thirties, “too old to have gone through this,” and he “had total writer’s block.”* His editors finally told him to send his notes, “ ‘and we’ll give them to a real writer’—they didn’t say ‘real’—‘to put into proper form.’ And with a very heavy heart, I said O.K. and I sat down to write out the notes.” Within a couple of hours, he says, he thought, “Hey, I can make something out of this.” The anecdote comes to mind after he sees a picture of himself in 1965, striking the confident pose of a dandy and holding a copy of his first essay collection. He credits the fallout of his piece “Tiny Mummies! The True Story of the Ruler of 43rd Street’s Land of the Walking Dead!”—a high-kicking takedown of The New Yorker under William Shawn—for sending the book to the best-seller list; “an unanticipated dividend,” he calls it.
A draft of a Phil Spector profile recalls his editors’ initial disbelief at that one: they thought the story too far-fetched to publish, until “they checked it out with Phil and he authenticated all of it.” A handwritten page of his most recent book, the 2012 novel “Back to Blood,” is marked with colored lines and has a few big blocks of text blacked out as if by a C.I.A. censor. “I have never gotten the hang of computers,” he says. “There’s all these steps you go through—you don’t just slip in the paper. You go to ‘TEXT’—no, no, you go to something with a ‘W,’ and finally you get to the page.” A letter from John Glenn sits next to a book of notes that Wolfe took while reporting “The Right Stuff.” He leans in to decipher his penmanship but can make out only a few words: “synergistically to attain, uh, astronaut status.” He straightens up and groans. “The things you go through to write a book.”
Wolfe is currently working on his next book, a history of the theory of evolution from the nineteenth century to the present. He calls the big bang “the nuttiest theory I’ve ever heard” and invokes the Spanish Inquisition when discussing how academics have cast out proponents of intelligent design for “not believing in evolution the right way.” Writing has not gotten easier over the years, he says. “It’s always, to me, very hard. And the only thing that sustains me is the fact that I did it before, and there must be some way I can do it this time.”
Nearly all those previous successes are documented in the hundred and ninety boxes; he hardly ever threw anything away. But Wolfe says that he had nothing like this—the archive—in mind. He likes looking back at old notes, reliving his reporting and writing, though he shrugs off the suggestion that visitors might learn something about him from the notes, “unless they like some of the sketches.”
Hunter S. Thompson once said of Wolfe that “the people who seem to fascinate him as a writer are so weird they make him nervous.” Wolfe doesn’t so much reject this idea as seem baffled by it. He didn’t enjoy being around the Hells Angels, he admits, but Ken Kesey and his Pranksters, on the other hand, were nothing but interesting. While reporting “The Electric Kool-Aid Acid Test,” he says, he saw a man in the throes of a drug-fuelled religious experience sit in the middle of a street in San Francisco in the lotus position and yell, “I’m in the pudding, and I’ve met the manager!” Wolfe throws his arms to the sides and tosses his head back as he recounts the scene, revealing a finely turned pair of cuffs and Tiffany-blue suspenders beneath his suit.
(This is from the NEW YORKER, Feb. 28, 2015. Presented by the R. Chive Press)
I am enjoying your rant, Kevin.
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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Jun 30, 2015 - 06:12pm PT
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At this point I'm assuming this wording is not Roger's, but in fact John's :
"They climbed extreme stuff, they were loud, and clearly differentiated themselves from the old fuddy duddies who were climbing at the time. They smoked dope and shattered boundaries, took the light stuff seriously, and the serious stuff lightly, and they really and truly went for it. An aspect of the surf culture had hit the crag and the Stonemasters brought it to greater, almost holier heights. Those who stand so honorably accused include Rick Accomazzo, Richard Harrison, Mike Graham, Robs Muir, Gib Lewis, Bill Antel, Jim Hoagland, Tobin Sorenson, John Bachar, and of course John Long - "Largo".
As more climbers navigated their way to the Valley (Mark Chapman, Kevin Worrall, Ron Kauk, Werner Braun, Billy Westbay, Ed Barry, Jim Orey, Rik Reider, Dale Bard, and others), the myth and character of the robust Syonemaster began to apply to a wider group of climbers. The term caught on like wildfire, from coast to coast, from shore to shore, and across the Big Pond, and it changed the face of climbing forever"
At this point I would like either John or Roger to take credit for the two paragraphs quoted above.
Kevin, please. I have never written about my own self in the 3rd person. So those words are not mine.
And what questions am I "avoiding" of yours. If you feel that the "real" history is not wrought through people and experiences - which is all that ever interested me - and that a laundry list of facts and figures gets it done, then C. Cummings has pretty much already done this for you. I've seen lists that he and Ed have compiled that have most all the raw data right there - if that's what you are looking for.
At this point, more than ever, I don't much care about appearing in the next all-inclusive list. What I go back to is always the same two things: The direct experiences I had, and the people I climbed with.
And if you were to ever write up your experiences, I wouldn't do so to simply revisit and revise our effort, but rather to put your own self out there with all your might. And write it right across the sky.
JL
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Jun 30, 2015 - 06:26pm PT
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Warbler, it's easy to see your love and devotion, and your engagement in getting the story straight. It's a bummer when things get published and you feel you could have tweaked them just a bit here and there to make them jive with your own points of view.
Keep the rant going, it's hot energy. But also do us all a favor, and really, write your own. You have a great chance to scribble a short essay here, righting what you see is err in the book. Give us your perspective, filled with the fun & friends that you remember from those early days camping in C4. Honestly, '72 Fall through '77! Everybody who is reading this thread, and those yet to come, would soak it all up.
Me, I'd print it out and be stoked to stick in my own copy of Bullwinkle & Largo's.
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jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
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Jun 30, 2015 - 08:10pm PT
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The term caught on like wildfire, from coast to coast, from shore to shore, and across the Big Pond, and it changed the face of climbing forever"
Perhaps a touch of hyperbole here.
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
mammoth lakes ca
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Jun 30, 2015 - 08:18pm PT
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The Stonemasters never found the cure for cancer but they were entertaining and talented...The legends lives on ....Hoh man.....
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Jun 30, 2015 - 08:37pm PT
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Perhaps a touch of hyperbole here.
Understatement of the year
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Bullwinkle
Boulder climber
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Wow, Earth Shattering!? Kevin, you are more in need of a Blow Job more than anyone I've ever known. . .
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Hey, Dean, why not cut to the chase, man?
+1 for the coffee-up-the-nose laugh
Sycorax, thanks, but it seems a perfect match, doesn't it? Except that TW could not climb Valhalla, home of the gods, where they keep the bonfire of the vanities.
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WBraun
climber
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sycorax -- "If Stonemasters is going for $600, I'll sell mine. Largo signed it at Facelift."
StoneMasters can never ever be sold.
Only the imposter can be sold.
The modern climbers call themselves Stone Monkeys.
They've devolved into monkeys.
Just seeeee ...... :-)
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
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I'm asking you to simply correct the misinformation and acknowledge that your closest partners, Ricky and Richard, and the rest of your noted crew came to spend extended time in the Valley a year after the other group mentioned did, rather than before as implied.
-
I'm sure this must be true. Not sure why it was never spelled out besides the fact that none of us got up to speed till around 1973 - that is, in terms of us setting off to do big new things like Stoner's Highway. But yes, there were two or three different Cali factions that were warming up to the big time - one down south, one in Yoz., and others scattered around.
Also, since I alwys considered you as part of our "noted crew," since you and I, and you and Richard, climbed so much together, that dividing up people according to years and so forth never occurred to me - not because I sought to promote a false history, rather because, as mentioned, the whole shebang didn't get full lift-off till we were all pretty much one unsanctioned band and from that band, partners were basically interchangable.
JL
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Roger Breedlove
climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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I found and reread the exchange of edited versions of my essay on Yosemite 1970s climbing and the moniker Stonemasters. My essay was a serious effort to describe what Stonemasters meant to Lois. Hi Lois, You have asked a fairly difficult set of questions
I received two edited versions from John which were close to my original essay which was about 1,400 words, but were edited to better fit with the editor’s requirements. However, I never saw the final shorter version, with its significant edits, until I received a copy of the book. I didn’t like what had been published but it was a book and done deal. And since I am not a Stonemaster, it would have been very unseemly to have said anything. But Kevin has poked me, so I will respond.
In my opinion, what was published under my byline is misleading. In my original essay on the Stonemasters, I distinguished between the original Southern California climbers and 1970s Yosemite climbers as a whole. The first paragraph is about 1970s climbing, which carries into the second paragraph where the first three sentences apply to 1970s Yosemite climbing, but are followed by the four and fifth sentences which are specific to the named Stonemasters. The third paragraph opens by effectively stating that the best climbing done in the 1970s was done by the named Stonemasters. My guess is that is an inadvertent slip caused by rushed editing. In the end I think that most readers would assume the named climbers did all of the climbing in the 1970s. I know that John does not believe this, so I assume that whoever did the editing conflated my essay with someone else’s observations.
I also agree with Kevin that the last paragraph indicates that the latter group of climbers came after the original group. I don’t know when anyone started climbing in the Valley, but I know when they started doing first ascents. The second group’s first ascents started in 1971-1973. Amongst the original group, John started in 1972 and the rest were in 1974 or 1975. In terms of production, the second group did about two and one half the number of first ascents as compared to the first group.
All that aside, publishing is tough and editors have to cater to their audience. John is a friend and I was happy to support the book. It is a fine book. I have always liked Dean’s photos.
To the point of not having a history of 70s climbing, we do have a very good history of Yosemite climbing laid out in all the posts on Supertopo. I have done my bit by summarizing the actual early 1970s Yosemite free climbing in book report format, contributing stories of my own climbs, profiling the climbs of important contributors, using statistics as a weapon, writing satire for fun and goofing off, and carefully building an argument about how to think about what made the early 70s so successful and who was responsible for what.
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Roger Breedlove
climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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Could be. She managed to dominate SuperTopo and its regulars for a long while. She deleted the thread I referred to, but it is worth reading for the humor.
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Sometimes I miss LEB. Said no one, ever.
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rmuir
Social climber
From the Time Before the Rocks Cooled.
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Yeah… Lois was here at least a year before some people, and she certainly stayed for an extended period of time.
She was certainly more prolific than most southern Californians… And northern Californians, for that matter. ;-)
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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At first, all I could think was,
"Is Roger talking to/about Lois Rice?"
Raise your paw if you knew Lois Rice, part of the pre-Stonemasters gang in '70 and earlier.
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Roger Breedlove
climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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Any one know where Lois Rice is?
Lois was always a bright spot on any day. Beautiful, smart, interesting, lovely lady.
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mouse from merced
Trad climber
The finger of fate, my friends, is fickle.
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Any confusion between the persons known as LEB and Lois Rice is understandable in a younker like you, Craig.
But it doesn't make a comparison of the twain any less ludicrous.
Roger, I haven't seen Lois since '71, probably.
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guido
Trad climber
Santa Cruz/New Zealand/South Pacific
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Couple days ago Lois was off the Hebrides in the Atlantic if I remember correctly. Looked interesting but way to cold for moi.
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Bushman
Social climber
Elk Grove, California
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...and I'm still waiting for that calendar you promised to send me, Mr Winkle.
My wife threw out all my old National Geographics...
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
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WoW this book may be turning into a movie/8-D
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kunlun_shan
Mountain climber
SF, CA
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>Raise your paw if you knew Lois Rice, part of the pre-Stonemasters gang in '70 and earlier.
I didn't know her then, but will send her a link to this thread. She's off adventuring with Walt V.
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Roger Breedlove
climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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Hey Kev, the whole Stonemasters edifice comes down if I am included: I was a bonafided fuddy-duddy. My small place was in the early, pre-Stonemasters, 1970s. Now if I had ever climbed Separate Reality or the East Face of Washington Column all free, I would apply, if there were a section for non-weed smokers.
Jim may be a defacto Stonemaster, but more than half of his first ascents were done before the end of the 1972 season. One third of them were done in 1970 and 1971. Jim's first career in the Valley revolved around Sacherer and Kor; the second career, in the early 1970s, revolved around Klemons, Bates and Haan, and Wunsch and Donini when they were in the Valley; the third career was in the middle 1970s with the Stonedmasters.
For those above who know Lois Rice, please give my best regards.
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Roots
Mountain climber
Tustin, CA
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Long Live the StoneMasters!
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jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
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JL did have lots of pics of his bulging biceps in that book
Hey, nothing wrong with that. I always thought BBs were a requirement for stonemasters.
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snake
Mountain climber
sebastopol
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Lois Rice and I met in the late 1970s when I was working as a guide for Palisades School of Mountaineering up in the Sierras. We married in October 2005, are both now retired and live in Sebastopol,California. We're both still active outdoors although arthritis has slowed us down more than we'd like to admit. Walt Vennum
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jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
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Yeah, arthritis did me in, but I was getting too old for it to be fun.
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Reedly
Social climber
The High Desert, CA
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I know that i am simplifying things. But, it seems like you are upset that a group that called themselves "The Stonemasters" wrote a book about themselves called "The Stonemasters" and didn't include another group of climbers.
Maybe the other group should write themselves a book.
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Bushman
Social climber
Elk Grove, California
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Then there were the...
'Spinemasters'
(Oh so fine Masters)
'Cartoonmasters'
(Snoop and Blab Masters)
''Misomasters'
(Soup to Nuts Masters)
'Skewmasters'
(I Me Mine Masters)
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dee ee
Mountain climber
Of THIS World (Planet Earth)
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I did Vallhalla with Tobin and Bachar, it was Tobins second time and Me and Jacks first. I did it again the next week with Erick E and Bachar, this would have been '73 or very early '74, I fell all over it, but sent. I was going on trips to the Valley as Tobins belayer and partner in crime by late 72. . .df
I wouldn't say I "sent" something that I "fell all over."
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Are you kidding me? Possibly the best Supertopo and Valley thread of all time, and it can't compete with Jody's as#@&%e thread.
This is what lowering my SuperToture reading intake has cost me. I simply tired of reading about the Stonemasters and it made me miss the coolest thread ever!
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rottingjohnny
Sport climber
Goldenville west of Lurkerville
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Thanks Warbler...I feel like i just found out there's no such thing as Santa Claus...rj
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Hey Warbler, did the email I sent get to you?
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survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
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Cool. I'll fire it up in a minute.
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hobo_dan
Social climber
Minnesota
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Oct 10, 2015 - 07:27am PT
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Dang Warbler--you hit it out of the park:
"Several people, you included, urged me to write down my experiences and perspectives, you particularly to write my story across the sky with all my might, to paraphrase you. I feel like I already did that, back then, with guys like you and Mark and Bridwell. My story is already there in Yosemite and here in San Diego County, and in beautifully remote landscapes in Baja, for those who speak the language."
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