Protocol On Passing Parties

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Pate

Trad climber
The High And Lonely
Topic Author's Original Post - Oct 6, 2009 - 11:38am PT
What's the protocol on passing slower parties on long aid routes?

When I did Moonlight Buttress and Lunar Ecstasy my partner and I had the routes to ourselves and those are my only walls.

Does it matter where in the route you are or is it all the same? Should a slower party initiate and allow a pass or should the faster party make a request?

Just wondering b/c of nature's TR.
Chris McNamara

SuperTopo staff member
Oct 6, 2009 - 11:42am PT
lots of beta here

http://www.supertopo.com/climbers-forum/598749/Big_Wall_Passing_Ethics

and i added a link to the How To Big Wall Climb Directory
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=692927
Pate

Trad climber
The High And Lonely
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 6, 2009 - 01:34pm PT
Thanks Chris- and everyone who posted in the thread.
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Oct 6, 2009 - 02:03pm PT
Haven't read the links yet but I have strong feelings on the subject.

This is perhaps the most important issue facing the next generation of climbers.


I don't think that faster parties automatically have the right to pass.
A friend of mine was making excellent time on a crowded arete when his party was overtaken by some crazy euro speed climbers who were yanking on everyone else's gear and even their ropes! Right above my friend one of them pulled off a huge block that my friend had to dodge.
He then watched in horror as the block killed two climbers below.
The euros continued on their merry way.



I believe that crowded routes should have a consensus window time bracket.
If a party is keeping within that window then it should be their option as to whether a faster party can pass, thus exposing them to potential rock (or gear) fall.

Slow parties who can't even climb within the window should get the directions to Carnegie Hall.
Go someplace not crowded and practice.

fongschway

Social climber
Plainfield, VT
Oct 6, 2009 - 08:41pm PT
Trailing parties,

- Flash your headlamps twice, pull out to the left. Maintain your passing lane, then pull back in leaving plenty of space for the other party.

Sorry....mostly....
Mungeclimber

Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
Oct 6, 2009 - 09:05pm PT
protocol = negotiated passing

usually this involves a slight pissing match if and only if there is a question of speed.

once the question of skill and speed are adjusted for, then it becomes much more fluid with 'en route' aspects playing into the decision to pass or to let pass.


least that's my 2 cents at this very moment without any other thought put into it.
Pate

Trad climber
The High And Lonely
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 6, 2009 - 10:40pm PT
Ron/Munge, do either of you guys have an example of a rough one and how it got worked out?

I read your stuff on bigwallforum.com, seems like you guys are always up there, you must deal with passing a lot.
Toker Villain

Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
Oct 6, 2009 - 10:56pm PT
With the exception of a pitch with Crunch and Donini in Long Canyon I haven't been on a route I didn't put up (or WAS putting up) in well over a decade.
Mungeclimber

Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
Oct 7, 2009 - 03:44pm PT
hah! I'm barely up there. I just post a lot and like to talk climbing, not so much politics as you might have noticed.


anyways, one example i have is trying to do SFWC in a push. we started at midnite and got up to the base of the kor pretty amped, but there were fixed lines and we were planning on catching some quick zzz. team of euros sleeping at the base. we felt bad as we didn't really want to wake them up. we bailed after trying the bypass without the right gear.

meh, live and learn. we should have just asked to use their rope and wake them up. or just climb over the top of them since they were still more or less sleeping. one of them kept eyeballing me tho.

that thread on bigwalls is pretty good tho.



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