Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
|
|
|
Oct 17, 2009 - 06:20pm PT
|
So, Anders, did Sasqutch start drum circles. Are Sasquitchi a tribe of old hippies?
|
|
Gobee
Trad climber
Los Angeles
|
|
|
Oct 17, 2009 - 06:21pm PT
|
Jesus makes it possible to approach God, and live without fear with joy and thanksgiving!
|
|
Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
|
|
|
Oct 17, 2009 - 06:26pm PT
|
Well, "Sasquatch" and "Squamish" are phonetically somewhat similar...
If there is a god, why isn't she smiting drum circles? (Edit) Indeed, why hasn't she already smitten them?
|
|
Gobee
Trad climber
Los Angeles
|
|
|
Oct 17, 2009 - 07:01pm PT
|
Rather then say how could God be like that, you should be grateful that He gave us a way out through Jesus?
|
|
cintune
climber
the Moon and Antarctica
|
|
|
Oct 17, 2009 - 07:14pm PT
|
Here we go
If God controls the land and disease
Keeps a watchful eye on me
If he's really so damn mighty
Well my problem is I can't see
Well who would want to be
Who would want to be such a control freak?
Well who would want to be
Who would want to be such a control freak?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xr_B2IOUYSw
|
|
dfrost7
Social climber
|
|
|
Oct 17, 2009 - 07:29pm PT
|
Hey Howweird,
I'm wondering what I said that was patently idealistic.
I don't consider myself "religious". I don't practice a religion or a religious belief. I have a living relationship with God through Christ that is as real as any I have with any person, more so, in fact.
Look, we all live and breathe by faith. (I'm going to get to those questions of yours a little later). I have a relationship with you, Howweird, by faith.
For all I know, it could be some code generated by something other than you, but I choose to believe you're typing communication on your own keyboard, with you own fingers.
In the Genesis account, in question, God made provision for this separation from Him.
Snuffing His son? We did that. You should read it yourself. Jesus was revealing the Kindom of God to us. By the way, everyone was bummed at Him because He said it wasn't of this world. The more we understand about science and things on an atomic level, the more apparent it becomes there is something very fundamental we do not know.
First of all, they grab Him while He's away in a garden praying. The RELIGIOUS leaders punch Him on the face, take turns, complain when Pilate says hey, you guys can release one of your own. The RELIGIOUS guys say, "Hey, we can't commit capitol punishment, you gotta do it, plus, we can't even be handling this because we want to be clean so we can eat passover".
Sound like religious practitioners today?
Pilate tells him, hey guy, are you a king? Cause if you say you are, Caesar has some serious issues with you Jew guy. Jesus says, you say I am, and I am, but my Kingdom is not of this world. Pilate says for him to stop
screwing around with him because Jesus should realize he has the power to let Him live or die. Jesus says, no one takes my life, I give it willingly.
All this discussion of fossils and bones and such has nothing to do with the fact we're going to die. H1N1? Falling? Car accident? It's appointed unto us all to die once.
You're asking about wrong thoughts, etc. Consider the ten commandments:
have you ever lied? disrespected your parents? Taken God's name in vain? Desired something that belongs to your neighbor (this would include freeway or road lane)? Once?
The question is if God is perfect. It is we who separate ourselves from Him. Jesus wasn't a guy. Pilate didn't know who he was talking to.
You were talking about the Sermon on the Mount earlier (maybe not you, but someone). Forgive sins?????? What an arrogant idiot? How could Jesus forgive anyone? No, you don't have to ask for forgiveness for me to forgive you. I do it because I have been forgiven. For God to forgive the things that separate me or you from Him, that is the issue.
We do these things willingly, deliberately. Pride is the thing throughout both the Old and New Testament that is the issue. Forgive myself? Do I have the power on an eternal level to forgive myself? Hmmm, I can forget about things I have done, but I can't change, or redeem anything I have done. It's there.
My son, Jordan, the one that was an atheist, says one problem atheists have is that Christians treat them like no one can be a nice, giving, kind, loving person except for Christians. He's right. I have met some amazing, loving people who don't believe in God. I was one of them. So was he.
It doesn't have to do with whether you and I are nice. Jesus didn't come to make bad men good, he came to make dead men live. It is because of this, we love Him you, we do what he asked. We mindlessly obey his command.
By the way, this Jesus, who if I decide to follow has all these rules, right? "A new commandment I give to you, love one another".
It's not something I can do for you, I can only say, God is absolutely real. Not in a fairytale, a-bunch-of-guys-made-this-up way. Yes, there are kooks on T.V., but it's not my place to judge them either.
Why did God snuff out His own Son?
God knew from the beginning what this whole thing making people was going to turn out to be. It's not about whether I want to believe in God or follow God, or know God. It is that He loves me. That He knows me, wants to love me, you all of us. He gives us a choice. Some say no. Some say yes.
Is it fair that only good people get to know Him? What about the people who mess up and want to anyway?
So God says, I love them, I, myself, will redeem them. He promises all throughout the Old Testament He's going to come, make the way Himself. Jesus wasn't a guy. He was God reconciling the world unto Himself. Jesus didn't stay dead. This was God making the way, for us to be in relationship with Him regardless of what stupid things we have done. Whether it was one or one million things we have done.
Karma is just a way of making you think you have a chance to work this out yourself. That's doing it our way. God has asked us to do only one thing, just like in the garden. Instead of a don't, it's a do: receive His gift, His Son. Have an amazing real, actual relationship with Him. He's waiting.
For all of us. He came to give us life abundantly.
The Living God does not ask you to join some church, group, whatever. He doesn't charge you anything. It is a gift, not a 'secret'. He just came knocking at my door. No one was preaching at me. I knew, like I know my own hands and feet. I knew I had to make a decision. I did.
|
|
Gobee
Trad climber
Los Angeles
|
|
|
Oct 17, 2009 - 07:33pm PT
|
HWD, I don't know all the sins against God I have done, and I don't want to know! I'm glad He forgives me! But, "HE IS A HOLY GOD!"
I don't know you to say what yours are, but you don't answers to me anyway!
|
|
Gobee
Trad climber
Los Angeles
|
|
|
Oct 17, 2009 - 08:07pm PT
|
Thanks Frosty!
HWD,
Are you reading the other posts, because we answered your question.
There is only one God, in three persons, Jesus IS God!
The Jewish people got the law from Moses by God. God said that it took blood to atone for sin, once a year.
Jesus did it once and for all, and that He was the WAY TO FORGIVENESS!
Edit; Even after you believe we still sin but ask forgiveness still,
but He knows your heart, you can't cheat God.
If you turn away from Him completely, did you really believe?
|
|
Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
|
|
|
Oct 17, 2009 - 08:07pm PT
|
The ancient pagans waited to be baptized until they were on their deathbeds, knowing that the act of baptism would wash away all their preceding 'sins' from throughout their lives. Great system, as long as you don't die unexpectedly.
Some Muslims consider Christians to be polytheists, in that they believe in a papa bear, a son bear, and a spirit bear. Not to mention a mother bear, saint bears, angel bears and a bunch of others - all derived from pre-Christian beliefs.
The Christian god is undoubtedly an anthropomorphic creation of a syncretist religion. If she actually showed up and started behaving as alleged, she'd be locked up in a maximum security institution for the insane in an instant. The preaching about peace and siblingly love and so on is fine, the practice is something else entirely.
|
|
dfrost7
Social climber
|
|
|
Oct 17, 2009 - 08:08pm PT
|
What you have or have not done, is between you and your Heavenly Father.
That is not anyone's business. As far as the holidays you mention, they are part of Roman Catholicism. That was man's answer to trying to control the population. We kind of have that going on with the so-called religious right.
There were no holidays.
Your research is incorrect about the Bible being a conglomeration of other religious thought. This other religious thought has mostly to do with either no god or many/hundreds/thousands of gods. The One God is why every one was so over the Jews. They wouldn't conform to the poly-theistic system. This was, over and over, not the gods they knew.
A relationship with one, loving God is only found with Him. You're going to have to support your statement.
But, you certainly do not have to receive His free gift. You simply don't.
You can say no. Or yes. Up to you. Man doesn't get to make the rules. Man is breaking his head on the rules. Whether I, you, like it or not, we're here because He put us here. I'm ok with Him having it His way. What is His way? Love one another, even as I have loved you. It's not fall on your face several times a day, it's not take some inner ever spiraling journey and still not know how you will spend eternity. He explains it. We can say yes or no. You close the deal yourself.
Are you saying you have never done anything? Are you saying you have lived a perfect life? Are you saying you know what will happen to you when you die?
|
|
Gobee
Trad climber
Los Angeles
|
|
|
Oct 17, 2009 - 08:34pm PT
|
HWD/LOL!
Edit; 2 Corinthians 5:21, For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.
1 Peter 2:24, He himself bore our sins in his body on the tree, that we might die to sin and live to righteousness. By his wounds you have been healed.
|
|
cintune
climber
the Moon and Antarctica
|
|
|
Oct 17, 2009 - 08:41pm PT
|
Christianity and Judaism were based on Persian and Egyptian monotheism, along with aspects of other early Middle-Eastern death-and-resurrection fertility cults. This is beyond dispute. The Bible is a heavily edited collection of repurposed myths and legends. Just like Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny, or Nessie and the Yeti. None of them can be disproved to a true believer, but it's proof of their actual existence that is at issue.
|
|
cintune
climber
the Moon and Antarctica
|
|
|
Oct 17, 2009 - 09:43pm PT
|
|
|
Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
|
|
|
Oct 17, 2009 - 09:44pm PT
|
I don't know about the Persian cannon, but I don't think the Egyptian deal is in anyway monotheistic. Granted Christian iconography takes from everybody; ie Xmas from the pagans......
|
|
cintune
climber
the Moon and Antarctica
|
|
|
Oct 17, 2009 - 10:12pm PT
|
The origin and rise of the concept of monotheism in ancient Egypt is well documented. It only served as a state religion under Ankenaten, but the idea was already around by the time of Moses, who seems to have borrowed a lot of his lawgiving action from established Egyptian precedents.
The Persian Zoroastrians worshiped Ahura Mazda as an exclusive creative deity; there are still Zoroastrian sects today in parts of the ME. Judaism. Christianity, and Islam are rooted in these precursors, as filtered through the tumultuous geopolitics of the region during the few thousand years before (and a few centuries after) Christ.
|
|
jstan
climber
|
|
|
Oct 17, 2009 - 10:15pm PT
|
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
Albert Einstein
Quoting irrelevant scripture over and over again as an answer to all questions
gets eeriely close to this, it seems to me.
|
|
Bad Climber
climber
|
|
|
Oct 17, 2009 - 10:29pm PT
|
So right, Howweird! When my students write argumentative papers, I say that they can only use the Bible to appeal to that particular group that might be swayed by such bs. The rest of us are going to require something a bit more substantial--like evidence.
God bless atheism.
BAd
|
|
Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
|
|
|
Oct 17, 2009 - 10:34pm PT
|
Thanks, Cintune. Now I have a starting point on something I didn't really know about.
Where do Gnostics fit in?
I have climbed Zoroaster temple.
|
|
Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
|
|
|
Oct 17, 2009 - 10:42pm PT
|
Lynn wrote: "Largo, could you please be more definitive in your post of 10/17 at 1:29, especially the last paragraph. I can't figure out what you are saying and I want to understand what you are saying. I would appreciate it. Only way to learn.....
Peace all, lynne"
I had written earlier: "On the other hand we have Song of Songs, the Beatitudes and Sermon on the Mount, and we have amongst us those who can never get past trying to measure and evaluate these as they do other "things" in the hopes of discovering the truth or the meaning. Moreover, it rarely occurs to these people that said truth is something beyond a subjective amalgam, a feeling, a mood."
People generally understand only one kind of "knowing," and it has to do with breaking something down to measurable components, or looking at "things" and deriving laws about their relationships, or the forces that influence said things. Or, they might simply amass facts and figures in the hopes of being able to control or predict processes, or to a lesser degree, "explain" why the sun rises or why cells split or why the chicken crossed the road. Generally, if you have enough information that you can predict how things will behave under certain circumstances, and can replicate this process in a linear causal chain, it is said that you "know" your subject, or that you know and understand something about it, at any rate.
This knowing is almost always based on linear causation- such as A leads to B leads to C etc. This also usually assumes that so-called "higher" functions derive from more fundamental functions that are said to "create" the higher, or put differently, the higher derives from the lower. Such as - the evolved, material brain creates thought and feeling, or, atomic electro chemical activity in the brain "creates" consciousness, and so forth.
Also wound into this thought structure is the belief that only the lower, fundamental functions are "objectively" real facts, whereas the higher functions or "states" are believed to be "subjective" feelings/sensations/ideas, etc. Most people have no experience of the "objective" (constant and predictible) aspect of the so-called subjective, and would consider the very idea of such as being hogwash and a contradiction (like black light, cool fire, and so forth.
This is the great misconception about spirituality - that the meat of it is purely subjective, man made and brain generated, and that if you "know" otherwise, that knowing is either based on a belief or a subjective "state."
JL
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!