Discussion Topic |
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Topic Author's Original Post - Sep 4, 2009 - 12:02pm PT
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Here's your chance to sound off. I don't mean the worst climbs, I'm talking about climbs whose reputation far exceeds what you get.
Here are my candidates:
1) Serenity Crack- Not saying it isn't challenging but you could add glue on footholds to match the pin holes and not diminish it's aesthetic nature.
2) The North Face of the Grand Teton- Yeah, it's a north face and you can see it from the road, but the lower two thirds aren't memorable. You would be much better off doing the West Face. It isn't a "north face," and you can't see it from the valley but the climbing is stellar.
3) Super Crack (IC)- Historic climb that you should do once, but there are other climbs on the same buttress that are more interesting and get a fraction of the ascents- try Rad Bad Duality Crack.
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Russ Walling
Gym climber
Poofter's Froth, Wyoming
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Double Cross, especially that it is now bolted.
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno
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Double Cross shouldn't be bolted. WTF?
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G_Gnome
Trad climber
In the mountains... somewhere...
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OZ in Tuolumne, one move of 10d face and then a pitch of 5.8 liebacking...
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Mark Not-circlehead
Boulder climber
Martinez, CA
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Who the F**k bolted double cross? That was a right of passage for me at 18........??
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steelmnkey
climber
Vision man...ya gotta have vision...
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That Double Cross was so dangerous.
The two bolts make it safe!
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scooter
climber
fist clamp
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Anything in Eldorado Canyon, or in proximity to Boulder CO.
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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any volcano
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Mark Not-circlehead
Boulder climber
Martinez, CA
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Double cross was only dangerous to those climbers out of their element. All it needed was to be re-rated, not bolted.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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It's the star system. Everybody wants to go to the same few places and do the same few climbs. How many times have you heard some variation on this conversation as two people talk about what to climb:
"How many stars does it get?"
"Just one."
"Well maybe we should look for something better, then. Isn't there something around here that gets three stars?"
But you know, on reflection, maybe it's a good thing that these few climbs are over-rated, or given more stars than they're worth, or listed in whatever is the currently popular successor to "Fifty Classic Climbs." It means that in most areas 90% of the climbers will be lining up for a handful of popular routes while you've got the rest of the place -- including dozens or hundreds of climbs just as good or better than the popular ones -- to yourself.
D
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno
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"That Double Cross was so dangerous.
The two bolts make it safe! "
Hope that was sarcasm...
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Fletcher
Trad climber
Shivasana
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The South Face of the Cinder cone (just north of Little Lakes on the 395).
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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I don't climb enough, not to have every single climb be 'rated' for value in some or another at a very high level.
The only one that is overrated is the one I get seriously injured or die on.
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steelmnkey
climber
Vision man...ya gotta have vision...
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Thunk... zinnnnnnggggggg....
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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First bolt is about where the shadow of the kite is. Second bolt is aprox four feet above the first.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Over-rated? NOTHING at Squamish is over-rated :-D
Nothing at Squamish is in America, either - at least not in the sense that donini uses it. Squamish is in the Americas, though. I blame Waldseemuller and the writers of the constitution of the U.S.A. for this geographical imprecision.
Edit: There were no bolts in Double Cross when I did it with Joseph H in late April, except the belay/rappel bolts at the top.
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guyman
Trad climber
Moorpark, CA.
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White Punks On Dope.
A good line, for sure, but folks drive out from New Jersey, France and beyond....."A dream of a lifetime" I was once told
They line up and wait to climb it, do it and split.
Lots of other good climbing on Voodoo Dome.
And If Double Cross has been bolted..... Russ needs to get his ass off the couch and fix it. WTF
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Port
Trad climber
San Diego
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I thought it was a joke. I cant believe it.
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Joe Stern
climber
Santa Barbara, CA
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Tami, emphatic agreement regarding middle's east buttress. after doing both the original and the 50 crowded variation, the only real standout pitch i recall is the featured splitter past the bolt ladder. not worth going up there and getting your rope all wet on the descent...well, okay do it once, but expect average.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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If I get the time, I may sink a few more there this afternoon maybe around 5 when it's good and warmed in the sun....
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Gobee
Trad climber
Los Angeles
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Double Cross, only two bolts? Charge up the battery! lol
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Fluoride
Trad climber
Hollywood, CA
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This HAS to be a joke about Double Cross. No one would bolt a perfect crack. It would be chopped in minutes.
And contrary to popular myth, it's not the deadliest line in the park. Only one person died on it and that was years back.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 4, 2009 - 01:11pm PT
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The fact that soooo many people know, and are concerned about, Doublecross, an okay 5.8 climb, shows how overrated it is.
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Brian Hench
Trad climber
Laguna Beach, CA
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I think Double Cross is the most trolled route there is.
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno
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"The fact that soooo many people know, and are concerned about, Doublecross, an okay 5.8 climb, shows how overrated it is. "
Which doesn't mean there should be any bolts on it.
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Fluoride
Trad climber
Hollywood, CA
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The Yosemite Gods will strike me dead for this but Royal Arches was a letdown. Wanders everywhere and my partner and I simul-climbed most of it. Nice to get some mileage in, but not all that interesting.
My partner was really experienced and knew the route well so no route finding drama, just climbing. And it wasn't all that great. The only really "oh yeah" moment was the very last pitch of that unprotected horizontal traverse, which only those who do the route to the very top get to do (if you rap the route, you don't get to do it. We were going for RA/Crest Jewel day).
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno
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I'd agree with RA. There's a couple of decent pitches on it. The best pitch is probably the chimney. lol
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Coppi
Trad climber
American Fork Utah
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I thought that the Bastille was kind of over rated, it may have been better back in the day but for me it was kind of a let down.
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jahil
Social climber
Does this rock make my ass look fat?
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After Six.
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Ed Bannister
Mountain climber
Riverside, CA
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Russ . what was it like climbing A5 for that many pitches?
"Five days with a gun at your head."
I think A5 is overrated.
Edit: not A5 climbers of course, they are just nuts...
Also Jim, Thanks for a really fun thread!
Ed
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apogee
climber
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Double Cross is the Lembert Dome of Joshua Tree.
Best left to the n00bs and tourons.
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John Vawter
Social climber
San Diego
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That first bolt on DC is too far up. It needs another one about halfway between there and the ground before I'll try it.
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Brian in SLC
Social climber
Salt Lake City, UT
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The fact that soooo many people know, and are concerned about, Doublecross, an okay 5.8 climb, shows how overrated it is.
Yeah, its overrated at 5.8. Last time I did, seemed 5.7 to me...
Ha ha.
Its a great route.
Thank goodness for those bolts leading up to the crack on it.
White Punks is a great route too.
Its all personal preference I guess. I guess my "great route" bar is pretty low.
I've always liked what Kimbrough had to say about the NF of the Grand. "If you don't HAVE to climb it, then, why would you climb it?" Or some such.
Cheers,
-Brian in SLC
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Double Cross is 5.7 if you pre-hang the draws; otherwise it's 5.8!
:-)
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Moof
Big Wall climber
A cube at my soul sucking job in Oregon
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DC Rack in order:
#9 WC hex, or #10 BD hex
#2.5 friend (#1 camalot is tippy, #2 doesn't go deep enough)
3x #2
2x #3
1x #3.5
0.75 or 1 near the top
3 draws for the anchor if lowering/TR'ing
Ignore the chalked up rotting hand traverse. Stand on the ledge at the start of the crack and slot the hex, bomber. Slot your fist (meat stopper) above it. High step and place the #2.5 as a solid second piece. Continue up through the bulge crux placing gear liberally (standing on the second bolt downgrades it from 5.7+ to 5.7-).
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apogee
climber
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Oh, yes, absolutely- pre-hang those DC draws and go for the pinkpoint! Siege tactics work well, too- fixed ropes whereever possible, and if all else fails, a little creative scarring ('comfortizing') is always an option.
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snowey
Trad climber
San Diego
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My vote goes for Chrimson Chrysalis in Red Rock. It has way too many bolts on it and the climbing was completely overrated. Also, the lines on that thing are ridiculous with people leaving their cars outside of the loop rode so that they can start hiking at 4AM.
Also, about the double cross bolting. If it is in fact bolted...instead of chopping it consider just removing the hanger. This has the advantage in that it does not scar the rock AND the few people who would actually go through the trouble of installing another hanger would just as likely drill another bolt if you chopped it. Also, this way you can start collecting some quality hangers for your other routes/bolt replacement initiatives.
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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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I'd agree that Royal Arches, Serenity Crack and the East Butt of Middle are pretty much ugly, wandering and over rated (quality wise).
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Redwreck
Social climber
Echo Parque, Los Angeles, CA
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I aided Double Cross with a fairly standard pin rack, some bongs, and a slung can of Crisco, it seemed to protect pretty well so I don't see what the big deal is.
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drljefe
climber
Old Pueblo, AZ
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#1- PRINCE OF DARKNESS in Red Rock.
Cool, I guess, for a long crimp ladder.
DOWT is way mo betta.
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drljefe
climber
Old Pueblo, AZ
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MisterE's guidebook isn't even out yet.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Woody is somewhere laughing his azz off at all this.
The original bolts on DC were placed by Wolfe for aid and he describes it in the first guide as a practice aid climb. Woody came back and did it free a few days after the FA.
Almost all the climbs mentioned are great ones if you do them at the right time in your career, overrated if you do them when they are beneath your level.
CC was great when I got to do it, but there were half as many bolts and we only had to race one party to the route.
Thought WPOD was great also, but then we did the splitter to the left of the dihedral for a first pitch and there were only two bolts on the face pitch with mandatory simulclimbing. (165' rope)
The East Face is a mountaineering exercise with a couple of good bonus rock pitches thrown in.
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Has this become a Double Cross thread?
Anyways, I gotta agreed with some of the previously mentioned: Royal Arches (the most interesting thing about it was the Rotten Log, which is long gone).
East Face of Whitney (big face, some fun exposure but too much loose 3rd/4th class).
Traveler's Buttress (I thought this was good and all, but hardly more interesting than most other climbs at the Leap).
South Crack (a nice finger crack for a long pitch, but then mostly wandering slabbishness--I'll no doubt do it again but I don't think it supports the hype)
I think OZ is AWESOME!
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 4, 2009 - 02:57pm PT
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Gotta concur with you about OZ.
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rick d
climber
tucson, az
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Triple S @ Seneca
Bastille @ Eldo
J crack @ Lumpy
Illusion Dweller @ Josh
Serenity Crack
Nutcracker
New Dimensions
Desire @ Mt Lemmon
Shalaylay Direct @ pinnacle peak
NE ridge bugaboo sp
kain route edith cavell
friday 13th on Nautilus
what's my line original
shall I go on?
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hooblie
climber
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boy that was quite a catharsis!
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Gobee
Trad climber
Los Angeles
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There allways overrated after you did it! lol
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Josh Higgins
Trad climber
San Diego
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Prince of Darkness - crimp crimp high step, crimp crimp highstep, crimp crimp high step, crimp crimp high step, crimp crimp high step, crimp crimp high step, crimp crimp high step, crimp crimp high step, crimp crimp high step, crimp crimp high step, crimp crimp high step, crimp crimp high step
God what a mind-numbingly boring route!
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tolman_paul
Trad climber
Anchorage, AK
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Anything at the Pinnacles
Amazing face at Mt. Diablo
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SteveW
Trad climber
The state of confusion
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Scooter
Makes me wonder how many routes you've climbed in
Eldorado Canyon. . .
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lemon_boy
climber
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i have to agree with scooter, eldo is by far the most over-hyped area in the country (if not the world). the naked edge and yellow spur are great examples. supposedly the best routes in eldo, mediocre pretty much anywhere else.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Walla Walla, WA
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Intifada was a bit overrated at A6. Heh... see recent threads.
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Prezwoodz
Big Wall climber
Anchorage
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I agree with Bastille, It felt good every now and then...but didn't feel amazing compared with anything else we were doing.
I think the most over rated climb I have done in the lower 48 is Sail Away that 5.8 crack in JTree. It could be because we were on the tail end of an awesome road trip but we all walked away with disappointment.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Pretty much everything outside of Colorado and L.A. (is that redundant?) you guys got it made, stay home.
Gimp, I liked Shaylaylay direct, so much that I only climbed it once, hmmm?
Also, Friday the 13th; now a lot of people climb up to the roof, lower off, and call that Friday the 13th. Kind of a greasy nondescript sub-pitch. If that's what you're reffering to then I agree with you. However the real climb is the two roofs, and there is some quality climbing there esp in the upper .11a handcrack roof. But maybe you found it less cool.
"Almost all the climbs mentioned are great ones if you do them at the right time in your career, overrated if you do them when they are beneath your level"
-we have a winner!
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philo
Trad climber
boulder, co.
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Stratosfear. Followed by the Scenic Cruise.
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BrassNuts
Trad climber
Boulder Colorado
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Tune into the Taco next week for the next episode of the hit series "Macho Climber"... "Only Wankers Use Dynamic Ropes". ;-)
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salad
climber
Escondido
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The only real problem I have with the bolts on Double Cross is the placement. Both felt pretty awkward to clip.
The second bolt looked like it was drilled at a downward angle and I was concerned it might pull if I took a big one on it.
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Llama
Big Wall climber
The bubble that is Irvine, CA
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I can't believe DC got bolted, how lame. Is the climb over-rated....? Yes, perhaps. But that doesn't mean it's not a classic, which it most certainly is; and THAT you can derive from the publicity it is getting in this thread.
And Gobee... dude, why do you always end your posts with "lol"... don't make me drive up to the ditch right now and smack you!
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drljefe
climber
Old Pueblo, AZ
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I hope they put some perma draws on those Double Cross bolts.
I fvcking hate gear on me when I climb.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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It's high time that pile DC got bolted; only they shud finish the job.
Crap jams all the way: hang them draws high!!!
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ice cowboy
Trad climber
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Come on, no one puts up High Exposure at the Gunks?
Cat in the Hat on Mescalito at Red Rocks.
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FeelioBabar
climber
Sneaking up behind you...
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American Fork...the whole godamn canyon.
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Dr.Sprock
Boulder climber
Sprocketville
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anything near a KOA campground.
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oldtopangalizard
Social climber
ca
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I would have to say the East Face of Whitney is just not that appealing. The closest I've come to getting clocked on the melon was on that climb.
I have not been to JT in years, but that is the first time I've heard about bolts on DC. Is nothing sacred?
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Bldrjac
Ice climber
Boulder
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Brassnuts.............you still use ropes!!!?? That's so , er OLD school.
I thought Donini Crack in Bariloche was over rated. The bolts on it are handy though.
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Dapper Dan
climber
Menlo Park
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illusion dweller over rated ?
i don't think so
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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That's it, Double cross is getting via Ferrata-ized, as soon as I can reel out the cable...
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David Wilson
climber
CA
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I realize this is outright heresy, but I'd put the gunks right on top of the list for an over rated area. Full disclosure though - I've only climbed there 3 days. My opinion may revise next month.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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May as well, Jaybro.
They're already lined up at the base like it's the Half Dome Cables.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Overhang Overpass hasn't been the same since it was rap-bolted. O tempora! O mores!
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John Vawter
Social climber
San Diego
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Josh, I think you were on somethin else cuz the sequence on POD goes like this:
crimp crimp high step, clip, crimp crimp highstep, clip, crimp crimp high step, clip . . . .
I'm not asking for a bolt that close to the ground on DC. Something you could stick clip would be ok.
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jfailing
Trad climber
A trailer park in the Sierras
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A number of routes at Smith seem pretty overrated.
Five gallon buckets, the most popular climb in the park, isn't really that exciting.
Anything on the Peanut. Definitely not worth waiting in line for.
Barbecue the Pope. Supposedly a "classic," .10b, I just think it's pretty "meh."
Of course many Californians will say that Smith overall is overrated, but then again, many Oregonians think California as a whole is overrated...
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adam d
climber
closer to waves than rock
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David...that's what people who've only climbed in the Gunks 3 days say!
Hike out to Millbrook or Lost City next time you're there for a completely different experience.
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goatboy smellz
climber
लघिमा, co
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What a bunch of jaded mouth breathing knuckle draggers… I’ve never met a climb I didn’t like one way or the other.
I even point them out to my friends,,,”yeah yah see that pile, it's better than it looks up close, you should go hike up there and get on it….”
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Batrock
Trad climber
Burbank
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Once, when I was at band camp, I climbed Double Cross.
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mooser
Trad climber
seattle
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OK, so I'm taking the chance of sounding like troll food, but...
Two bolts on Double-Cross is a joke, right?
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John Vawter
Social climber
San Diego
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I think so. It needs at least four to be safe.
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Gobee
Trad climber
Los Angeles
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Weren't the two bolts on Left Ski Track?
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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enough, i cant take anymore doublecross angst.
at xmas i'm going down there with six bags of ready-mix, and i'm troweling the damn thing over.
if you haven't ticked it off already, you've got three months.
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goatboy smellz
climber
लघिमा, co
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klk, I would recommend using Quikrete Non-Shrink Precision Grout, tested to 14,000 psi to handle the heaviest climber ego.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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While you're at it, fill in the crack behind Camp 6 on the Nose, so halfwit climbers don't keep putting crap in it. It shouldn't take more than a few yards.
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scuffy b
climber
Sinatra to Singapore
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Safest time to climb Double Cross is just after a big weekend,
when the bodies are stacked like cordwood.
A shoulder stand can get you to the first bolt then.
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Simmeron
Trad climber
Tahoe
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East Face AND East Buttress on Whitney. Great climbs, but I don't need to do them again. Hike a bit further and climb Fishhook Arete on Russell or do South Face of Charlotte Dome.
I'll also add Overhang Bypass at Joshua Tree. Great climb, but the fun is over so fast.
On Double Cross, why are the bolts at the crack? Oh right, I forgot. Given its intermediate rating and proximity to Hidden Valley people try to learn how to crack climb on this route.
It'll be interesting to see how long those bolts last.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
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The bolts on DC were approved by the climbing ranger, so take it up with him.
I heard that the NP got tired of paying the rescue costs of hauling of people with broken ankles.
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David Knopp
Trad climber
CA
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who said anything at Pinnacles was overrated? You just gotta climb there more my alaskan friend... there's the salathe on the hand, the rr on the monolith, machete ridge, lava falls, all great climbs at varying grades.
But i do agree about Whitney E. Face-i loved it the first time, was bored the second.
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tolman_paul
Trad climber
Anchorage, AK
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Some of us are having fun with the thread.
I grew up in the Bay Area and have had plenty of fun at the Pinnacles.
But seriously, if the Valley was a 1 hour drive, and the Pinnacles a 4 hour drive, would anyone ever bother to go to the Pinnacles to climb?
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CF
climber
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Cryin' Time Again
It is really
CRYING TIME AGAIN per MR Morris
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billygoat
climber
3hrs to El Cap Meadow, 1.25hrs Pinns, 42min Castle
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Tolman--my thoughts exactly. I used to be way into the Pinnacles, then I realized what a choss pile it is.
I waited five hours to climb Illusion Dweller (there was some REALLY slow parties in front of us). It was worth it.
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TYeary
Social climber
Huaraz, Peru
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Double Cross is not THAT dangerous. No bolts are needed, and I will REMOVE them if they are indeed there.
Most over rated; Mt.Hood by any route.
Tony
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dee ee
Mountain climber
citizen of planet Earth
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I disagree regarding OZ (you've got to be kidding) and Illusion Dweller (puh-leeze).
The bolts on DC make it a reasonable lead, leave em' be.
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caughtinside
Social climber
Davis, CA
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North America?
Any of the long routes at potrero chico.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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I Really (!) hope you climbed something in the interrum. No, one pitch route, is worth 5 hrs of inactivity when there are uncountable other options at hand... and yeah Illusion dweller is, stellar, I first climbed it, onsight in '83 (no waiting).
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Fluoride
Trad climber
Hollywood, CA
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"The bolts on DC make it a reasonable lead, leave em' be"
You're kidding, right? Please tell me that was meant in sarcasm.
Seriously, I hope DC isn't bolted and Russ was just joking.
If not, those bolts need to go. ASAP.
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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This thread is dedicated to the genius of Jeff Batten.
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SicMic
Social climber
Boulder, CO
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I'll admit it's tough to defend E. Butt and Royal Arches, even if (or until) you do them in hiking boots. But if you're not feeling it on Bastille Crack I'd suggest you leave your rope in the car and downclimb it from the summit. Jim- thanx for the luv (I named it 'Bad Rad Duality') on that old pitch.
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ec
climber
ca
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Traveler's Buttress
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curt wohlgemuth
Social climber
Bay Area, California
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Here's a second vote for Traveler Buttress.
I'll throw another sacred route in the fray though: I was disappointed in the Red Dihedral on Incredible Hulk. One beautiful pitch, totally obscured by the heinous grovel at the top.
Oh, and hat's off to Batten. There's a whole new crop of fish to troll...
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Jack Burns
climber
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Primrose Dihedrals and Supercrack of the Desert. Primrose is okay because you get to stand on a tower at the end of it but I thought it didn't live up to all the hype. There's quite a few better tower routes, imo. And Supercrack is just a boring peice of crap compared to a lot of other routes at IC.
Also, I really enjoyed Double Cross with the nice fatty new bolts. When I first led it with a triple set of Camalots it was SUPER dicey. I don't care what all these super hardcore trad climbers say, the bolts were needed and the climb is much better now. I just wish they'd put a few more on Hot Rocks so I can go project it.
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apogee
climber
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Jeebus H Cripes, enough Krap® about DC, already! Go climb sumthin' (besides DC, of course.)!
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Short4Bob
Trad climber
Morgantown, WV
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Rick D -- why Triple S? I rather like it, although I do think it's overhyped.
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steelmnkey
climber
Vision man...ya gotta have vision...
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I've even heard people try to paint Triple S as a sandbag, although I never believed it.
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powderdan
Social climber
mammoth lakes
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while im the first one to bash colorado(espesialy around coloradans, i mean east coast transplants), i think eldo has awesome climbing.
oz? that climb rocks too...
oh well...
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powderdan
Social climber
mammoth lakes
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primrose???? now this thread has gone too far.
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powderdan
Social climber
mammoth lakes
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all my first ascents!
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tom woods
Gym climber
Bishop, CA
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ec- Travellers? Come on, that route is great. One of my all time favorites, of course my favorite combo is doing tombstone terror to travelers, so maybe you have point on that first pitch.
Squeeze to hands, to a yes a fairly middle of the road ramp thing, but then an awesome step accross to jugs over the enormous big top roof, followed by vertical 5.4 jug hauling way up in the air. Ultra Classic.
Not over rated. perhpas other great routes are under rated and need to be brought up classic status like travellers, but no reason to bring this great route down.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Fluoride, without the bolts, how would the via ferrata stay in place?
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GDavis
Trad climber
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I'll probably get sh!t for this...
Cathedral peak. If not for the way it looks from the road It'd never be climbed. its pretty fun (i've done it 3 times) and interesting, but some really marvelous routes in tuolumne see far fewer ascents (pennroyal arches comes to mind). With the climbing one would expect to maybe see another party, or two, but the last few times I've been on it, its had over 15 people at the same time.. kind of nuts. Again, i was contributing to that! But, bring friends to tuolumne for the first time, and they will beg to be taken up it.
I agree with the arches and the east face, both really fun but more historical than... good.
And I've never climbed Hermaphrodite flake, only because I've yet to drive by and see anything but a group of six or seven teams lined up for it. Can it be that great? And whats with everyone rapping after the second pitch?
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GDavis
Trad climber
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and DC is way better with the lower bolt, it was hard to get a good placement in and you might get a groundfall from there. The second one is maybe not needed, but then again I didn't mind clipping it. After all, a route as popular as double cross is, why not just bolt it? Saves time for people leading it and makes the crowds move along faster.
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
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This thread represents everything I love about supertopo! Too much of the rest of it has become like a friggin' facebook page.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Preparing a really boring lecture for tonight. I apologize in advance to my students...
Look at me! I'm into strategery!
Nyuk nyuk. We're really all a bunch of bores, at home on Friday night before the summer's last long weekend.
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Rhodo-Router
Gym climber
Camper is packed and ready to go
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Loser checking in on a solo Friday night, right here!
OK, Primrose? It's pretty dang cool. Lots of variety: the semi-rubbly start, the why-are-they-still-here flakes, an actual downclimb, hands forever, cool huge flake, and stardrive sand-dune topout...what's not to like? Oh yeah, great summit too.
Serenity crack is just a vehicle for getting you to Sons of Yesterday...then the whole thing makes more sense. Rapping off after the first three is like getting to third base and then a cop pulls up behind you.
The Nose on Looking Glass: not that interesting.
Tami, putting the NE Butt of Higher in the same league as the EBMC isn't fair. The former is a full-value, old-school grade IV, and the latter is the best 5.7 in the Valley with a bit of aid or 5.10 thrown in there.
Cathedral Peak is awesome. Go climb it in October with no one around and forget about the people- you're confusing the objective with the subjective. Plus, FA John Muir, how cool is that?
OZ is sweet. So the corner isn't that hard, so what? If you want 300 moves in a row of 5.10+ to stroke your ego go get on a treadwall. The line is stellar and the view is lovely, it's friggin' hobbitland up there fer chrissakes.
I better get another beer.
[glug]
OK, super all-time overrated: the Durrance route on Devil's Tower. Grovelly, polished pillars that should do us all the favor of falling off already. Being on that thing is like a cockroach trying to climb out a toilet bowl. The deal at Deto is basically this: harder is better. Cleaner, more elegant, more sustained, you name it.
Um, the Naked Edge is amazing. WTF, people.
The Yellow Spur isn't. Exciting face climbing on the first and last pretty much make an all-crust, no-meat sandwich out of a long 5.7 corner. Agreed.
The Cattle Route is pretty cool until you go into the shade on what, the second pitch? Nine stars for being on the Diamond, minus four or five for being the shadiest route on the cliff, and god forbid you get behind someone.
Super Crack of the Desert: B effin' D. If only 'Luxury Liner' had stuck, we wouldn't have this problem. At least it has the highest gumby-gravitational field of any crack in the Wingate universe.
Illusion Dweller is pretty good- what's yer issue there? It doesn't degenerate into a low-angle frack like all the rest of 'em?
Midterm: basically OK, but not super intriguing.
And the ultimate,end-all overrated climb...........
The Owens River Gorge. If LA filled this thing up tomorrow, would anyone miss it? Vertical crimpmilling in a cement factory, no thanks.
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Scared Silly
Trad climber
UT
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We need some mountaineering/alpine routes
West Buttress on Denali
East Ridge of Mt. Temple.
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Rhodo-Router
Gym climber
Camper is packed and ready to go
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klk said it: any volcano.
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SteveW
Trad climber
The state of confusion
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Scared
Only having gotten up to about 15k+ on the West Rib,
certainly, the west buttress on Denali isn't all that
difficult. . .unless you get caught in a big bad storm.
And then it could cost a life. . .
The route's not to be trifled with.
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Salamanizer
Trad climber
Vacaville Ca,
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How about:
Everything on Temple Crap.
Wheat Thin,
South Face Washingtons Column,
Goodrich Pinnacle (Right)
Hardings Chimney (Sugarloaf)
The Line (Lovers Leap)
Power Lust (Leap)
Sands of Time (Cal Domes)
Gemini Crack (Cal Domes)
Every one of these routes has better climbing to the left and right.
Ok, Ok, South Face is a good route, it's just the situation surrounding it that makes it suck so bad.
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Rhodo-Router
Gym climber
Camper is packed and ready to go
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The South Face of Washington's Column does not suck. It is, however, a victim of the collective fallacy that 250 feet of aid climbing can magically transform a bunch of low-angle cracks into a Big Wall. In this sense, it is most certainly overrated.
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Rhodo-Router
Gym climber
Camper is packed and ready to go
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Riley, 'Eat' is not overrated. It pretty much rules.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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The Durrance is prolly my least favorite climb on the tower . But, overrated? Has anyone ever set it up as a cool climb? Isn't it's claim to fame that it is the easiest route up Deto?
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Karen
Trad climber
So Cal urban sprawl Hell
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Regular Route on Fairview
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WandaFuca
Gym climber
A survey where 68% preferred this Fuca over others
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What's the difference between sandbagging your FA and claiming that a popular route is too popular?
Just another kind of pissing contest.
(edit) I love smack talkin'. Whaddya think I'm doin' here?
V V V V
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Rhodo-Router
Gym climber
Camper is packed and ready to go
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Whattya, got a problem with smack-talking? get off the interweb!
Eat's at E-Rock, it's a fingercrack.
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Iron Mtn.
Trad climber
Corona, Ca.
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I wasn't that impressed with Overhang Bypass when I did it.
Double Dip & Stitcher Quits are pretty average too.....
Man we are friggin' spoiled in California.
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stevep
Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
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The Nose.
Chipping. Pin Scars. Lines of wall gumbies. Poo and pee at all the ledges.
Why would anyone bother?
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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I'm tempted to name some three-star New Hampshire climbs that, on my grumpy
days, seem unpleasant or chossy. But no, this ain't California, we've gotta hang on
to those stars.
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Rhodo-Router
Gym climber
Camper is packed and ready to go
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Chim, your ignorance is showing...cover it up!
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rick d
climber
tucson, az
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Chim chim- (aka BURT BRONSON) thanks for nothin'.
 All those rotten lines at the Tower just suck right?.
back to Illusion Dweller-
You know I thought it would be harder, I thought the moves would be better, I thought that the idiotic crux was different, and I thought is was pretty- at first.
Like "Run For Your Life", it is really not that good. Hell, I grew up in McDowells/Pinnacle Peak and there are very few greats. Same rock style with more approach.
The rock just does not lend itself to brilliance.
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Peter Haan
Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
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It always amazes me with the tens of thousands of routes out there that so few get climbed regularly and the amassing of humanity on those popular lines somehow is tolerated. Even---perhaps in a way for many---the crowd is actually reassuring and sought after. It would seem that less popular routes “have something wrong with them” and aren’t worth going up on and may even on some deeper level be scarier and too challenging. Along with the cabbage patch doll, many famous classics are “must haves” and people are willing to get all stacked up on them, queuing up actually as if for a movie or lunch counter. A situation that never ever would have been acceptable 40 years ago. The degradation of your day's effort out on the stone is critical to consider here.
I know it is hard to grow as a climber and go through a logical development of your skills via a carefully picked list of an area’s routes but to cluster up can’t be the price of your improvement. In fact I suspect there are aspects of this compromise that probably thwart your real leading and climbing skills. Having a show-and-tell mechanism going on just above you in the form of earlier parties puzzling out your same route for you will erase many of the issues a leader should discover and solve on his own. You are not getting full value and the party-like situation is pretty lightweight and you are not facing the climb on its own terms.
And lastly, it is sure true there are sacred cows all over the place, or should I say, emperors with no clothes. There are fashions in climbing even down to particular crack sizes or whether one is a splitter or not. It is just silly. There is ever so much more to climbing than the three-note melody that is proffered so often. I just see kids excited and easily stimulated, yelling on a bus.
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Rhodo-Router
Gym climber
Camper is packed and ready to go
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Seems like a lot of people's disappointment with the overrated ones is that their expectations are so high, then the thing turns out to be just a rock climb and not some kind of orgasmatron and bingo! it's a chosspile.
So: Expectations lead to disappointment, shocker.
The old Thomas Kelley guide to NC had a binary system: a start meant a climb was recommended. That's it. Nobody ever came home griping about how such-and-such failed to earn its star, or how they'd been promised a transcendent experience and were tragically let down when all that happened was a day spent scaling sheer cliffs.
Parsing the difference between four and five-star routes gives people something to talk about around the campfire, and maybe it's helpful in a place like J-Tree with five trillion lines, but it's basically a bit much. No one should ever come off of, say, Illusion Dweller feeling like they've been ripped off.
["Idiotic"? Attributing human qualities to a naturally created fissure in a rock formation might be stretching things a bit, y'know?]
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Rhodo-Router
Gym climber
Camper is packed and ready to go
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Sacred Cow? That thing is A M A Z I N G!!!
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wack-N-dangle
Gym climber
the ground up
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Maybe Donnini's question wasn't about any routes specifically, but was more simply a statement about his view on aesthetics.
Can we hear a story about this area?
what remains
wild and free
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Tork
climber
Yosemite
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Ya, all those cracks at the tower suck!
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Peter Haan:
Along with the cabbage patch doll, many famous classics are “must haves” and people
are willing to get all stacked up on them, queuing up actually as if for a movie or lunch
counter.
"Classic climbs" become consumer goods, in a way -- we see all the ads, and everyone
agrees we must have them.
This viewpoint really struck me some years ago when I read a brochure by a climbing
guide service. It listed classic routes in the Moab area (Castleton, Ja Man, Ancient Art,
etc.) and with each one, described how great it was -- and the price. They were selling
the climbs, exactly like consumer goods in a store.
In a less-commercial way, something like that happens whenever anyone asks what
routes they should do in area X. "Here are the climbs you must have!"
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Peter Haan
Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
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For sure, Chiloe. And it is AN ILLUSION, this commodification. Everest is another one of these situations.
Like I say, a three-note melody. Everybody has to grow and develop of course and at any given point will be at various stages in their understanding but it is looking like more encouragement is necessary to get folks out on the giant splendid variety that climbing is. A climber won't develop much if he/she doesn't get it going on over all sorts of stone and situations.
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Rhodo-Router
Gym climber
Camper is packed and ready to go
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Generally speaking, I try and stay away from telling people how they're going to feel. It takes something away from their experience: either it happens that way, and the experience is cheapened a bit, or it doesn't, and they are either disappointed or just think the description was wrong.
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philo
Trad climber
boulder, co.
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Lots of folks want to measure themselves against the accomplishments of their predecessors. Thus when a climb gets named a 'classic' or given 'test piece' reputation the conga line begin to form. My beef is not that these routes are bad or unworthy but rather that the 'tick list' mentality leads to unnecessary overcrowding. We used to laugh at the name "Supercrack". Not the climb mind you, it's quite good and leading it on pre cam gear was a serious business. But at the name it self. I mean really Supercrack of the desert? Have you looked around the desert? There is a lot of supercracks out there. But more and more aspirants line up for 'classic', 'test piece', 'tick list' climbs every year. Sadly, I think, they are missing more than they are finding.
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Gobee
Trad climber
Los Angeles
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DC without the bolts.
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Curt
Boulder climber
Gilbert, AZ
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Wow. I think "Run For Your Life" would be a five star climb anywhere.
Curt
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Dr.Sprock
Boulder climber
Sprocketville
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my mom wasn't much of a climber, but we won't get into the details, ok?
good ol, mom. taught me how to swim with a weight belt.
"i'm trainin ya for Survivor-Phillipines, or dick cheney, which ever comes first..."
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Gobee
Trad climber
Los Angeles
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RFYL*
It's like going to the movies if their hyped to much they could be a letdown but come on?
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le_bruce
climber
Oakland: what's not to love?
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I like the perspective Rhodo-Router is giving this thread, seems right.
For me, they're all good. But damn was Laurel Mtn's East Gulley on the shitty side of good.
Even still, with great views on all sides, beautiful and empty summit, a descent that makes you earn it, and a swim in the lake waiting on return to the car... Can that really be overrated? That's a day to live for.
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james Colborn
Trad climber
Truckee, Ca
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Wow... OZ, Illusion Dweller, TheNose, Red Dihedral, Travellers Butt. Tough crowd. What a bunch of twits. Let us give thanks for any climbing. I can't think of one climb I've done that sucked. Sorry. I hate this line but... "it's all good".
The descent on Laurel was actually the highlight for me. It was like skiing powder for 1000'.
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Fritz
Trad climber
Hagerman, ID
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Let's also add the entire state of Idaho to the list.
I have always stated that the fising, hunting, and river running was overrated here----it follows that the climbing must be too.
Also the locals are surely, and frequently inbred------- and there's a lot of nuclear waste laying around as well.
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Simmeron
Trad climber
Tahoe
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As a climber of six years, I like the popular routes; most are popular because they are fun climbs. Once I've been in the game 20 years or so, I'll seek out the less popular ones, which from my experience tend to be too dirty, too long of an approach (though the approach doesn't keep the crowds down on Whitney or the Grand Teton), and the climbing just isn't that good (though, I have done some pretty fun less-popular alpine climbs). Though maybe if I could lead 5.11 and up . . .
In fact, everything in Tahoe is overrated. Why would anyone from Sac/Davis/Chico and the Bay Area bother to drive two or three hours through traffic on winding mountain roads to come to a place that is too crowded, too expensive, and becoming more polluted every year? Save yer gas money and buy new shoes.
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David Wilson
climber
CA
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Idaho you can't include based on the City of Rocks alone. Wyoming also doesn't belong, just with Wild Iris and Ten Sleep. Can we throw New York on the over rated list...?
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Curt
Boulder climber
Gilbert, AZ
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No way. The best climbs in the US are in New York.
Curt
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Keep in mind, Simmon that the alternative is to spend even more time in "Sac/Davis/Chico and the Bay Area "
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Tom Fralich
Mountain climber
New York, NY
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#1 for me: Shockley's Ceiling (Gunks). Is there any way to pull that thing without banging your shin and looking like a punter? Not that I've found.
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Hummerchine
Trad climber
East Wenatchee, WA
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Heh, fun thread...
Although I agree with the East Buttress of Middle Cathedral. I mean, 50 classic climbs of North America? And they are in Yosemite? And they pick this? Not to demean the route, but just about every other route in Yosemite is better than that one! Also, I see mention of Crimson Crysallis...I climbed it about a zillion years ago with Todd Gordon, pretty sure my first route in Vegas. I enjoyed the route, but did not think it was all that good...again, just about every other route I've done there since seems better. But then again, how in the heck would I know...like I can remember??? Maybe I was just annoyed that he could hike through the cactus about twice as fast as I could...
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Rhodo-Router
Gym climber
Camper is packed and ready to go
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Any route with a line.
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jfs
Trad climber
Upper Leftish
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lol...sour pusses.
I've had the most fun on the worst routes. wouldn't trade em fer nuthin!
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Can't imagine saying climbs on the Bastille are overrated. I think many are classic and timeless for the grade. I'd also pick POD as #1 - I rope soloed it to warm up on arriving in BV and about halfway up I finally bailed out of sheer boredom.
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scooter
climber
fist clamp
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As far as Eldo, and pitches climbed maybe only 50 to 70 pitches under my fingers there total. As far as featured sandstone goes there are 60 ft routes in Arkansas that put Eldo 600 ft routes to shame. Though I enjoy both places, I like Eldo more when the people that live in Boulder aren't there. HA!
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Curt
Boulder climber
Gilbert, AZ
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"...Shockley's Ceiling (Gunks). Is there any way to pull that thing without banging your shin and looking like a punter?
Yes.
Curt
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Ryan Tetz
Trad climber
Flagstaff, AZ
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Out of state girlfriends
Consumenes River Gorge
The Riverside Quarry
Sedona
Clifton, Maine
Consumenes River Gorge
The Riverside Quarry
Sedona
Clifton, Maine
Leada, Chattanooga
Katahdin State Park Rangers Pre Climb Approval Meetings
Horndogger Select
Solar Slab Gully
Mont Blanc
East Butt of Middle (EB of ElCap and NEB way better)
Tenaya Peak
Aunt Fanny's Pantry
Church Bowl Tree (not terrible but people are on this constantly)
Reg Route Lower Cathedral Spire
Selaginella
The Sewer Pitch on the Salathe
North Ridge of Conness
The WFofLT Rappels
Approaching LostArrowDirect with Haulbags
Night time onsights of NDG
Super Slab
The Awahnee Hotel
Storms and Portaledges
Ex Girlfriends
Getting lost on the approach to the Grotto through poison oak
Hotshot Fire
The Riverside Quarry
Pop Bottle
Travelers Butt
The Hogs back
The nob pitch at the top of Farley
Climbing at sugarloaf anytime there is a 100 or more wasps on certain routes
Wag bags and portaledges
Emergency Rooms
People Falling off White Rastafarian
Underated =Pretending to grovel and fall off the right ski track solo at dusk with lots of sound effects =)
The Riverside Quarry
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Scooter: "As far as Eldo, and pitches climbed maybe only 50 to 70 pitches under my fingers there total. As far as featured sandstone goes there are 60 ft routes in Arkansas that put Eldo 600 ft routes to shame. Though I enjoy both places, I like Eldo more when the people that live in Boulder aren't there. HA!"
Having come up in SoIll in the 70's I'm well familiar with the sandstone steeps and roofs you're talking about. They still rate as my favorite climbing, but Midwest sandstone is not Eldo sandstone and I can't imagine contrasting them that way.
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Inner City
Trad climber
East Bay
|
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North Ridge of Conness is a fair candidate for overrated. But did Jim mean overrated as in not that good as the thread contributions suggest, or overrated like Crest Jewell with new rubber? North Ridge is just o'kay with a long approach...West Ridge WAY better.
Not being as good as the hype is hard to judge cause of different circumstances and different leading abilities.
Folks schlagging on Cathedral Peak and East Butt of Middle are not really considering all the routes out there. I liked those. I liked Royal Arches and Regular Route and .... what a tough crowd we are. Like some people said, all climbing is fun...
that said, LonePine Peak north Ridge was looser than a Tijuana hooker. Scary as hell for 5.4...classic? hmm.
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grant farquhar
Trad climber
bermuda
|
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The Bachar Yerian. If it was in the UK it would be just another average route graded about E3.
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
|
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Long as we're talkin' shyte here ...
Anybody else hate the Black Corridor at Red Rock? Enclosed, overcrowded and
noisy, with grid-bolted generic routes and no view at all -- the most gymlike crag I've
ever visited outdoors.
Not that there's anything wrong with that.
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Tom Fralich
Mountain climber
New York, NY
|
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Black Corridor sucks, and the belaying there has to be some of the worst I've ever seen. Downright terrifying.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
|
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Amazing face at Mt. Diablo
You gotta be joking, somebody has 'rated' that piece of shite? (I learned to climb at Diablo in the late '60s, I may even be one of the first to free climb it, not that I care.)
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ec
climber
ca
|
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Patrick,
LOL Yeah, you have that right, and because of it the place is FUBAR. Thx to the idiots who have trashed it.
ec
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Jeez EC, I haven't been there for some 15 years, but you make it sound like the "Boy Scout" rocks area on Diablo is a dump. Doesn't surprise me. That said, and even though it is where I first learned to climb, the place was always a bit of a choss pile. I may have fond memories of it, but I can't see myself climbing there again.
As for volcanoes, I have climbed the three big Mexican ones, nothing wrong with those, but just a slog. Sort of like Hood and Shasta, now Shuksan is a bit different, as is Rainer.
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Hardly Visible
Social climber
Llatikcuf WA
|
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Patrick,
Just so you know Shuksan is not a volcano, that’s why it’s different.It is composed of a metamorphic rock known locally
as Shuksan greenschist,which probably started out as ocean floor volcanics though now thoroughly recrystallized and transported far from it’s point of origin by fault movement.
Any of the Cascade volcanoes by their standard routes make for nice viewpoints (weather permitting) but as climbs are rather lack luster being just long often crowded snow walks.
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Largo
Sport climber
The Big Wide Open Face
|
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Hey Tetz, how about the Riverside Quarry?
hilarious . . .
JL
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
|
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The crucible of greatness for the WOS boys...speaking of overrated. LOL
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wack-N-dangle
Gym climber
the ground up
|
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First time I was in the Black Corridor, someone said that it used to be a nice place to picnic before there were routes. There were trees, birds, grass, etc. Last time I went, there were more routes. Seems kind of like a Catch-22. Sometimes, visiting the wild places we love changes them. Still, I agree that bolts leave relatively permanent marks.
How about gyms as areas to organize climbers, and teach future generations? It might help keep the ethics debate alive. How about a taco thread to celebrate clean ascents. It might even provide beta for those who want it.
I think I just need to STFU, throw some bones towards The Access Fund, ASCA, or AAC, get back to work, and plan to go climbing. Woo hoo! Local plastic crag is open on Sunday.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Yeah Kevin, I know that Shuksan is not a volcano, but I thought that I would mention it anyway, as it is the first peak I climbed outside of the Sierra (1973 when I was 17). I also climbed St Helens the same year. Now that is a volcano.
PS I always wanted to do Baker but it seems like a pain in the arse in more ways than one.
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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wack-N-dangle:
First time I was in the Black Corridor, someone said that it used to be a nice
place to picnic before there were routes. There were trees, birds, grass, etc.
That's sad.
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up2top
Big Wall climber
Phoenix, AZ
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I wish I were still able to climb enough to bitch about climbs I thought were over rated. They're ALL outstanding in my book. Any day climbing a choss pile beats sitting around the house getting older and fatter.
Ed
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philo
Trad climber
boulder, co.
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Yeah, I don't care for the Black Corridor either. Ever since it became a 'Sport Climbing destination' it has had an unpleasant vibe to it. Very incongruous to the rest of Red Rock in my opinion.
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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Any one remember their early years climbing some genuine pile of choss and returning ecstatic from the experience? You dudes are way jaded.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Yeah, you can pretty much write off California, why go there?
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Walla Walla, WA
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Gross man, it's now both pathetic and hilarious how fixated you still seem to be on WoS. More than 25 years later, you still can't let it go.
There is life after Wings, dude. Time to move on, don't you think? Does yet another thread have to get turned into your attempt to get a dogpile going on the WoS guys?
Whatever, man, wow... time to get over it! Give it a rest. You do not become somehow greater because of your endless attempts to make less of us. You've convinced anybody you are going to. For all the rest of us, it's just tiresome.
Regarding the Quarry, I haven't been there in many years, and I can't speak about its sport climbs. But our aid routes there were certainly not overrated. Climbers (that's plural; I know of at least two) have died on our routes there. Whatever else it is, the Quarry is home to some seriously loose, technical, and difficult aid routes.
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Rankin
climber
North Carolina
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Man, that Double Cross troll never gets old. Russ, the master of the wind-up.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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dble cross is bolted?
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quartziteflight
climber
Who knows?
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ha ha great thread..
Here my list..
Anything alpine or mountaineering..way too much f*#king work and spooning with dudez is a no go!
Ice climbing..use to love it, but its like aid climbing...
And then there's aid climbing..shits like carpentry!
Route wise..
super crack...
yos...crowded, piss stained pig infested eurogrape smuggler refuge..lol
most of colorado...
carry on with the trash talkn!bishes!
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Anybody else think highly of the aid masterpieces at Riverside??? Louie was as silent as you were when the topic was last raised. Hundreds of posts and not a peep from you ??? Odd.
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Bob Harrington
climber
Bishop, California
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Chiloe wrote:
***
Anybody else hate the Black Corridor at Red Rock? Enclosed, overcrowded and
noisy, with grid-bolted generic routes and no view at all -- the most gymlike crag I've
ever visited outdoors.
***
Sure, agreed, I'd say that's the consensus. Since it's known as such, I don't consider it overrated. This 'overrated' business is more a matter of expectations than objective qualities of a climb.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
|
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Nice back edit. Were those dead climbers repeating your routes while on aid? If not, what is your point here?
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lars johansen
Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
|
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Getting back to the Pinnacles:
Machete Direct
Everyone does it once. Only a fool would climb the whole thing twice.
Costanoan
Just when I thought it couldn't get any worse those yahoos rappel bolted 5.6, with lot of 'em.
Recommended: Lava Falls and Shake and Bake. They both bear repeated viewings.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Walla Walla, WA
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No back-edit from me.
One of the dead climbers was doing "Vertical 'V'," which we rated A3. You are about twenty feet above talus when you can get your first placements in an expanding block. Apparently he pulled the second or third placement, ripped the rest, and went into the talus.
I know about the second from a brief newspaper article which placed him on one of the routes in the "Roof Area." That area has a number of A4 routes, all on expanding blocks. Again, apparently something pulled, and he went to the ground.
Steve, you perpetually conflate "greatness" with something else (I'm not clear what). In my mind "greatness" includes many, many attributes in addition to difficulty (one reason why I don't think of WoS as "great"). Almost everything at the Quarry should not be called "great" in my opinion (I can think of a couple of routes that might be "great"). It's a 200 foot high vertical to overhanging cliff of blasted, broken stone. It is loose! It is unappealing. During the summer is is relentlessly hot, and when the Santa Anas blow through there, it is just miserable. There are many reasons to call the Quarry a steaming pile of dung.
However, what the Quarry does have is underrated (by Valley standards), very technical and dangerous aid climbs.
We trained there prior to our ascent of the Sea, and we found many of our A4s and all of our A5s to be dramatically harder than anything on the Sea. And if you want to learn REAL expanding aid, the Quarry is unsurpassed. The tricks and delicacy you learn there if you want to survive will stand you in good stead anywhere, particularly at the Valley!
So, say what you want in perpetual ignorance... but this is just another example of you dissing routes you've never climbed. Your clear M.O. at this point is that ANYTHING the Mad Bolters have ever done MUST be crap. But, at this point, that's an old dog that can no longer hunt. You would do better to settle into your rocking chair on the front porch with that old dog and dream of the old days when the world was clear on two fundamental things: Grossman was GREAT, and the Mad Bolters were pariah. (Somehow, strangely, those two seem intimately tied together.) Sitting in your rocker with a quilt on your lap and your trusty dog by your side, you can convince yourself that such a world still exists. Maybe even have a few friends over to sit in their own rockers and pet the dog.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
|
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Diédre at Squamish is quite overrated. (It's in the Americas, though not in the US.)
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
|
|
Wow, I thought my sarcasm was obvious enough...
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Walla Walla, WA
|
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Creak, creak... yawn.
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Watusi
Social climber
Newport, OR
|
|
About Double Cross...It wasn't just the number of bolts, but the sheer size that got me wondering...
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Walla Walla, WA
|
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Now THAT is indeed overbolted! However, chopping it could present some problems....
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Social climber
valley center, ca
|
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grant f, and yo climbed BY when ? And then you put up a slighty more difficult route after that ? Jess asking, maybe you have and I don't recognize your name. Peace, lynnie
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Social climber
valley center, ca
|
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Quartziteflight, lol, yeah, the spooning with dudes would be negatory.....unless yo were a dudette. :D
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Walla Walla, WA
|
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Oh, don't get me started! I will defend Wings of Plywood until the end of the age! THAT was a GREAT route by any measure, and all you cellulosephobes that can't handle the hard woods just aren't thinking objectively!!!
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
|
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Yew wood say that.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Walla Walla, WA
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Oh, Mighty, more sarcasm. I get it.
Well, YOU clearly haven't lived, because you haven't lived until you're a FULL Husky Dual-Sided tape run out above a rusting 16 penny sinker driven into a void, with your tool belt rattling from your sewing machine legs resulting from the sickening realization that you're into a section of delaminated, weathered 1/2-inch AC when you got yourself that run out in the first place because from below it looked to be a section of 1-inch CDX. THAT's when you know you're into some hard wood, and Wings of Plywood is the ONLY place in the world where you can experience something like that!
Overrated? Bah! Get past that delaminated section alive and THEN you can talk.
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TwistedCrank
climber
Ideeho-dee-do-dah-day
|
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Any climb that creates more than a line of spray is overrated.
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Captain...or Skully
Social climber
Boise....
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You can see that at the base of the Nose.......BIG line o' spray.
Punks.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Oh sure, throw the jargon and big numbers around like you know what you're talking about. "Full Husky Dual-Sided", "rusting 16 penny sinker", "delaminated, weathered 1/2-inch AC", "1-inch CDX". I'm surprised that you don't also boast that Robbins and Chouinard and Frost and Harding and Donini and Porter and Sutton and Burton and Bridwell and all those other heroes didn't even see the line, let alone have the intestinal fortitude to try it. And that bit about your "exclusive" high-fibre diet - as though we don't know what that's all about, eh Mr. Metamucil? Not that you seem to have problems in that department - or was that someone else?
Nope, the veneer is rapidly peeling from your extravagant claims about Wings of Plywood. The morals & ethics panel has decided. Soon the only apPLYing you'll be doing is for a job humping drywall or something, dreaming of having a backyard woodie like the rest of us. Some kind of woodie, anyway.
And your unkind remarks about genuine Canadian OSB are causing problems for Obama's foreign relations.
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Walla Walla, WA
|
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Phhsst... you just caused me to produce a Mighty spew...
That's out of my mouth, btw!
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GDavis
Trad climber
|
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Richard, the stone is HURTING, I tell you! Hurting! Why don't you think of other people's, er, rocks, feelings before you climb?!?!/11
Oh I laugh to myself now and again... who would think to see a WoS debate end up in this thread? Yet, if there's one thing I learned, its that... well shoot I don't think I've learned anything. And Tim Schinhofen I'm sure says HI. He is lurking around here somewhere no doubt.
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Alan Rubin
climber
Amherst,MA.
|
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I can't believe it--227 posts and counting over the best Labor Day weekend, at least here in the northeast, that we've seen in years. While you folks were busy posting I--and alot of others--was out climbing in an area I've never been to. Maybe it was a bit crowded, maybe some of the routes wren't the best, maybe some were quite good---BUT IT WAS BEAUTIFUL AND I WAS OUT CLIMBING AND HAVING FUN. Isn't that what it's all about?
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madbolter1
Big Wall climber
Walla Walla, WA
|
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Well, SG can turn any thread into an opportunity to pot shot. Sigh.
Yeah, tell Tim hi for us if you see him!
And, Mighty, that's "DR. Metamucil" to you! Got it?
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
|
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 8, 2009 - 05:01pm PT
|
Back from the weekend- interesting list being compiled! Have to take exception with Primrose and Scenic Cruise- both three star routes in my book. For ice climbs, how about The Black Dike on Cannon Mountain.
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Brian in SLC
Social climber
Salt Lake City, UT
|
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For ice climbs, how about The Black Dike on Cannon Mountain.
Kinda thought about that a bit when you first posted this topic. Then I thought, 3 pitches, the position on Cannon (that great big right facing corner you can see from the parking lot), the history, the grade, approach, descent...I dunno. Pretty classic. And can be spicy in lean conditions. Deserving in its popularity, methinks.
-Brian in SLC
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philo
Trad climber
boulder, co.
|
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Hey Jim, I didn't say the Scenic Cruise was a bad route just that it is overrated. Not in terms of its grade but it's singular popularity. There is a lot of rock in the Black. The Scenic Cruise is just one of the routes there not the best route there. And what with how clean it is and with all the chalk and fixed gear it's not really like the Black at all. But it recieved the publicity and attained what I call the Jello Factor. That has nothing to do with Jeff Lowe. It means branding. No one goes to buy gelatin they go buy Jello. Even if it is Foodclub knockoff it is called Jello. IMO the Scenic Cruise has the Jello Factor. It is a great route among many GREAT routes.
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Alan Rubin
climber
Amherst,MA.
|
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To Chim-Chim: Yep, there is plenty of climbing in Mass., though most who post on here would call it "tiny, chossy,worthless, etc.....", but it's here and alot of the actual climbing is quite good despite the short lengths of most of the routes. The areas close to Boston do tend to be pretty tiny and not high in the aesthetics--Quincy--i.e. Queasy--Quarry being the prime example, but still offer accessible recreation for the city-bound. Further west we have various mostly single-pitch crags--what the Brits call outcrops--and bouldering areas usually in very pleasant (though often bug-ridden)wooded locales. Alot of the climbing that gets done is top-roping--horror of horrors!!!!--but there is trad and some sport. But, yes, if we want anything longer its the Gunks, the Dacks, or New Hampshire--and Vermont mostly for ice. As for the basic topic that Jim posted, I guess I have alot I could say, but in my opinion it really comes down to the individuals experience on the climb-- even a crappy climb can give someone a classic experience and vice versa.
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Simmeron
Trad climber
Tahoe
|
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Karen, Regular Route on Fairview? gasp. . . say it ain't so! I loved that route, but then I also had to wait behind three parties in the friggin cold, so I'll say the wait for the route is definitely overrated.
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melon
Trad climber
Redlands, California
|
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Sep 16, 2009 - 09:43pm PT
|
The Jam Crack on English Smooth Sole Slab at Mt. Rubidoux.
Way overrated.
And it needs a couple of bolts.
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Unforgiven
Mountain climber
Dirt
|
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Sep 16, 2009 - 11:11pm PT
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overhang bypass maybe because i was drunk and stoned when i lead this climb.
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mission
Social climber
boulder,co
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Sep 16, 2009 - 11:21pm PT
|
It's got to be the White Route on the Tsunami Wall at the BRC. Everyone says it's cool, but it's just like climbing the overhanging side of a 28 ft extension ladder, except you wouldn't hit the ground if you just let go.
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Inner City
Trad climber
East Bay
|
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Sep 16, 2009 - 11:50pm PT
|
"Overhang Bypass" is an interesting candidate. I've been on it too many times myself to concur, but some of those adventures have had loose rock and bad gear aspects,but I kept going back..so I must not think it is over rated. 5.6 ain't a sandbag for that thing.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
|
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 17, 2009 - 12:29am PT
|
If you want a refreshing alternative to "Overhang Bypass" there is always "Overhang Overpass."
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Russ Walling
Gym climber
Poofter's Froth, Wyoming
|
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Sep 17, 2009 - 12:30am PT
|
Still going with Double Cross.....
Unrivaled in bolt protected trad cracks.
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Inner City
Trad climber
East Bay
|
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Sep 17, 2009 - 12:33am PT
|
Jim D,
You know when a weekender reveals himself as a 5.6 leader, opening himself to ridicule and catcalls, you are there to suggest 'overhang overpass' as an 'alternative' I imagine it has "good" gear...haha
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
|
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 17, 2009 - 12:40am PT
|
Come on Inner City, only reason you were up there was to scope it out. Well the gear is certainly better now than BITD.
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Scott_Nelson
Trad climber
San Diego
|
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|
Sep 17, 2009 - 12:40am PT
|
East Butt El Cap
Reed's Direct
Astroman
S Face Washington Column
Lucky Streaks
Charlotte Dome
White Punks on Dope
Imaginary Voyage
Walk on the Wild Side
Solid Gold
Supercrack
Kor Ingalls
Tricks of the Trade
Eagle Dance
Crimson Chrysalis
NE Face Pingora
Petit Grepon
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
|
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|
Sep 17, 2009 - 11:10am PT
|
OO. Very funny.
How about:
Top 40 to Middle Toilet? Yeah, I actually did that thing once.
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Ryan Tetz
Trad climber
Bishop, CA
|
|
This one needs a bump!
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trailridge127
Trad climber
Loveland, CO
|
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Boulder Canyon, Clear Creek canyon and Shelf road
edit.. definitely Shelf
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
|
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This thread is dedicated to the genius of Jeff Batten.
He'd love this.
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ruppell
climber
|
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High E
Sure it's got two really cool and exposed moves but it's 150 feet of mediocre climbing to two cool moves to 50 feet of mediocre climbing.
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
|
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So many people take the climbs at the Gunk's for granted,
I disagree. High Exposer creates a sense of anticipation.
If you try to imagine it covered in lichen, three pins that may or may not fit and a rope that will break if you fall, All conditions that were part of the FA, then the climb feels historic.
It Is Cascading Crystal Kaleidoscope, CCK, that has ten feet of climbing , every 50 feet or so.
from the belay up through the crux is now fully polished as much from guided top roping as from hundreds of thousands of accents.
The left variation, CCK direct with the rest being Consequential, very steep crux through a overhang is a worthy separate route.
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ruppell
climber
|
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Gnome you can imagine it any way you like. I'm not trying to take anything away from Kraus or Wiessner. They where exceptional for there time. But it's a joke it is so highly rated.
Madam G's, also a Kraus route, blows it away. Every move on Madam's is great. It's sustained and the exposure lasts a hell of a lot longer than High E.
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
|
|
So clearly I'm behind the times and clicked the first page of this.
Can someone confirm that the bolts have indeed been removed from Double Cross?
Or a better response would be that saying someone bolted it was a joke in the first place.....
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Todd Eastman
climber
Bellingham, WA
|
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Please declare how you cool you are...
... dis great routes and elevate yourself...
... yea, you bad!
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Russ Walling
Social climber
from Poofters Froth, Wyoming
|
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Can someone confirm that the bolts have indeed been removed from Double Cross?
Bolts still there as of two days ago. I was drinking beers at the base watching some sweaty gym dudes get schooled on it. In FULL sun. Wild. 104 degrees and 32% humidity.
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Todd Eastman
climber
Bellingham, WA
|
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I don't take it personally. It is just that some routes are iconic to different people for different reasons.
A first trip to the Valley is such an amazing experience for those coming from other places, and those climbs that pulled them there have a really different place in their experience than they may hold for locals.
Now that they may have been a bit overrated in terms of difficulty may be another story...
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
|
|
Gotta laugh at people dissing East Butt of El Cap as overrated.
It was put up in 1953.
Were you expecting Dawn Wall or something?
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
|
|
Aren't all climbs over-rated if you've sent them?
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
|
|
Bolts still there as of two days ago. I was drinking beers at the base watching some sweaty gym dudes get schooled on it. In FULL sun. Wild. 104 degrees and 32% humidity.
Speechless.
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
|
|
Can someone confirm that the bolts have indeed been removed from Double Cross?
I believe Walling has given up on chopping them. They get replaced pretty quick. They are 1/2 inch button heads right now with Fixe hangers.
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Escopeta
Trad climber
Idaho
|
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Unbelievable.
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clinker
Trad climber
Santa Cruz, California
|
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I believe Walling has given up on chopping them. They get replaced pretty quick.
A dickotomy.
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mcreel
climber
Barcelona
|
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Traveler's Buttress. The position is great, but the crux is very short and not particularly fun. The upper dike hiking is fun the first time, but too easy and long to be something that you enjoy repeating.
High Exposure. I can't remember anything about the first pitch. The last pitch is great, but maybe not so great as to make up for the first pitch. Or are there 3 pitches?
Regular Route on Fairview. Great position, but the climbing is nothing too special.
I would be happy to repeat any of these routes another time, they are all great. But each of them has other climbs close by that are just as good.
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SusanA
Sport climber
Bay Area
|
|
Double Cross was one of my first trad leads this spring and I really appreciated the bolts. My boyfriend gave me the beta that I could place a #11 stopper in the bottom of the crack and it seemed to fit nice but I just did not trust it. I also had a yellow cam but it wobbled. The first bolt gave me confidence because by then I was pretty high off the ground. I really enjoyed the climb and only had to hang twice. And my tape gloves started falling off half way up, lol! I am looking forward to getting it clean on my next trip down there in November.
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Inner City
Trad climber
East Bay
|
|
Warbler,
Hobbit Book? Say it aint so! I love that route...
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NutAgain!
Trad climber
South Pasadena, CA
|
|
I'm sure I've been bored on a climb, too hot, not as into it as I thought I'd be, annoyed by a nearby shooting range, or whatnot, but I consider all of those as my personal issues and state of mind, not a reflection of the place or the climb.
I've never had the experience of feeling hype for a climb because it is commonly well-regarded and then I was disappointed by it. Maybe that is the silver lining of being an occasional weekend warrior- a greater appreciation of just being outside and getting to climb anything.
I suppose if my life revolved around the outdoors and I had my pick of spots on the planet, I might be more picky.
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Cragar
climber
MSLA - MT
|
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Most climbs(if not all the sport climbs I have done) at Red Rocks...
A 12a is an 11c, 12+ is more like 12 and most mid to lower 11s are like 10d/10c/d. With the notable exception of the Running Man, one of the best at RR IMHO.
However, the other over-rated gig for me was climbing at Wild Iris. Very cool location and hard as hell climbs(at least what we tried/did) but dang are they short!!!
Oh, and maybe Higher Spire but when you consider the time of the FFA it becomes pretty cool.
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looks easy from here
climber
Ben Lomond, CA
|
|
NutAgain, I'm in the same boat. For the rest of you, getting to climb so much you're let down by highly regarded routes is a pretty good problem to have!
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selfish man
Gym climber
Austin, TX
|
|
In my opinion, the Double Cross bolts are unnecessary, but they come handy when you are working the route on lead. I've skipped the bolts when I went for the red point
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Gary
Social climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
|
|
Are there really bolts on double cross? I've done it twice in the last 3 years or so and there were none either time. Did I just get lucky? Pretty sure I'm getting trolled...
You must have been off route. Were you maybe on Double Start?
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
|
|
Aren't all climbs over-rated if you've sent them?
Only after you've done them more than once. I think rgold captures my feelings on this quite well. I learned to climb at Little Table Mountain, a choss pile of volcanic conglomerate somewhat more shaky than Pinnacles brecchia. Each time I went there, I wanted to climb more. If I went back now (unlikely, since the owner has severely restricted access), I'd probably ask "Why have I bothered?"
Otherwise, about the only issue of overrating involves the length of the queue at the base compared with the enjoyment of the climbing. I could argue that a fun route like the Regular Route on Fairview isn't worth it because the last time I was there, I had to wait for four parties ahead of us, but I don't think I would have felt that way the first time I did it.
Now that I'm old and have no reason left for living, I care more about isolation than about difficulty, rock quality or being a route gourmet. After 49 years of climbing, enjoyment is enough to satisfy me.
John
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ddriver
Trad climber
SLC, UT
|
|
Here's your chance to sound off. I don't mean the worst climbs, I'm talking about climbs whose reputation far exceeds what you get.
Correct answer is J-Crack.
"This is probably the most traveled route at Lumpy Ridge and one of the best finger cracks anywhere."
Loose Ends or Visual Aids right next door are better.
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Darwin
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
|
|
^DMT
What is/was Underground City? Limestone quarry in the Gold Country? e.g Cave City?
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SusanA
Sport climber
Bay Area
|
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Aug 22, 2016 - 09:42pm PT
|
lol, I didn't lead it but I did follow it. My boyfriend led it and he told me about the myth of the bolts so I just went with it as a joke. My tape gloves did fall off though! Joshua Tree is so pretty but I have to get used to the climbing for sure.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
|
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Aug 22, 2016 - 10:03pm PT
|
Walk on the Wild Side. No offense to the FA, whom I know. Times were different then. But today, folks lining up for it?
The Vampire. So sure it's an icon. But Insomnia beats the hell outta the first pitch (which even has a sneaky way on halfway up). Razor's edge stomps the second pitch. Since pretty much any stout face pitch there is better than the third pitch I'll throw down Magical Mystery Tour. From there up its scrambling.
Okay, now I'm running for cover...
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BLUEBLOCR
Social climber
joshua tree
|
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Aug 22, 2016 - 11:30pm PT
|
Walk on the Wild Side
Hey atleast it's 2 pitches @5.7. That's huge in josh. I would'a said Loose Lady, JUNK!
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johntp
Trad climber
socal
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Aug 23, 2016 - 01:04am PT
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I always enjoyed walk on the wild side and feel the rating is pretty much on target. There is a fair amount of .6 and .7, but quite a bit of .8. BITD it was pretty run out but the harder parts were pretty well protected.. Don't know if it has been retro bolted.
Back then with a 120 cord it was 3 pitches.
Nice views.
edit: is it now rated 5.7?
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