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cleo
Social climber
Berkeley, CA
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Topic Author's Original Post - Aug 19, 2009 - 01:56pm PT
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This sucks, but my old 15 yr old dog Joey is suffering enough that it is time to go. He is 3-legged, mostly blind and deaf, confused, and now has trouble breathing due to (probably) congestive heart failure. I'm ready to put him down, but do not want to drag him into my vet's office (which stresses him out - he lost a limb there after all!). My vet will not come out to the car to euthanize the dog, like other vets, but other vets will not euthanize a dog that they've never seen before and require a visit!
As if this weren't hard enough already.
Do any of you know any vets in the East Bay who would be sensitive to this predicament and willing to euthanize my friend while he rests comfortably with me in the back of the car?
Here's a shot of us last Thanksgiving, in Joshua Tree:
Here's an older thread:
http://supertopo.com/climbing/thread.html?topic_id=556301&msg=557413#msg557413
Here's a life story thread:
http://www.handicappedpet.net/helppets/viewtopic.php?t=10948
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Matt
Trad climber
primordial soup
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Aug 19, 2009 - 02:05pm PT
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my vet says to tell you that there are vets in the east bay that make house calls (no contcat info for you- google?) and that would be your best bet...
edit- so sorry cleo.
such an irony that our best friends live such short lives.
they just have 7 times the love in their hearts that we do, i guess...
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Bill Sherman
Mountain climber
Thousand Oaks, CA
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Aug 19, 2009 - 02:25pm PT
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Thanks Riley!
I wish one of my ex's who is a veterinarian was out at Davis right now. She would have been able to help. I'm sorry to hear about the troubles you're having. Joey sounds like he is an incredible companion based on the story you wrote up.
I found this from Google: "Bruce Max Feldmann, DVM is a Berkeley vet that makes house calls. I had him come once, to euthanize a cat quietly at home. He was very sensitive and helped us all through the experience. His number is 5251404"
William Sherman, MD
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jstan
climber
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Aug 19, 2009 - 02:27pm PT
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I know this will sound weird but it feels right also.
I would run a pipe from the exhaust pipe into the passenger seat and then sit beside my pet for as long as I could.
Having a professional do it seems too, impersonal.
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
New York, NY
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Aug 19, 2009 - 02:28pm PT
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I'm so sorry for your sadness and your dog's suffering. Hope you can get the help needed without too much more effort.
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jstan
climber
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Aug 19, 2009 - 02:43pm PT
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RJ:
Back in 1850 we used a 12 gauge. Seen a few.
Yeah. That is why it is less impersonal.
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Aug 19, 2009 - 02:46pm PT
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Cleo, I am so sorry about you dog. I hope you can find a compassionate vet.
.........
John wrote,
"I would run a pipe from the exhaust pipe into the passenger seat and then sit beside my pet for as long as I could."
Cleo, I honestly dont think you would use this method, but to prevent misconceptions about this I wanted to clear up some misunderstandings.
Old cars use to put out as much as 25 percent carbon monoxide. New cars with catalytic converters put out as little as 1 percent. Carbon monoxide is what causes you to pass out and die. So if this method was used, the fumes from unburnt fuel would be very noxious and it would take a very long time to pass out from the little carbon monoxide being released. This would lead to prolonged suffering.
Edit: Rox is also correct about not recovering quickly from the carbon monoxide if you sat with your dog. It is nasty stuff.
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jstan
climber
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Aug 19, 2009 - 02:52pm PT
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Many thanks for input from those with more knowledge than have I. Sorry about the hijacking.
It is just the problem is so tough.
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Aug 19, 2009 - 02:55pm PT
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Riley,
You can detune the car to produce more carbon monoxide. The one percent is just the average of a properly running modern vehicle. Older vehicles produce more, plus if your catalytic converter is rusted and empacted and doesn't fully do its job, that can cause your vehicle to produce more.
It is just that you won't really know how much your vehicle is producing. That is part of what smog checks do and why vehicles can't pass smog because their catalytic converter is impacted. So it can take a long time with a modern vehicle and in this case that would cause prolonged suffering for the dog while it has to breathe gas fumes.
........
Sorry Cleo, for taking this thread in such an odd direction and away from your need. I just wanted to clear up some misconceptions.
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cleo
Social climber
Berkeley, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 19, 2009 - 02:56pm PT
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oh goodness, I'm not doing the car thing. but thanks for the suggestion?
working on finding a vet - have to make a few phone calls. this sucks.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Aug 19, 2009 - 03:01pm PT
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I'm sorry to hear about Joey, but it sounds like you're doing the right thing. Good luck with finding a humane vet, who will come to your home. That's always best.
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drljefe
climber
Old Pueblo, AZ
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Aug 19, 2009 - 03:02pm PT
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I used a "MOBILE VET".
this was in socal though...
no exam needed.
good luck, and sorry.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Aug 19, 2009 - 03:03pm PT
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Sorry to hear about Joey, cleo. He is a good dog and I'm glad to have been able to spend time with him.
Good luck with the vet, and God bless Joey.
^^^^Try the guy that Bill Sherman listed above^^^^
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Jingy
Social climber
Flatland, Ca
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Aug 19, 2009 - 03:29pm PT
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sorry for your future loss, Cleo
Hope all works out well... as it always does
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Matt
Trad climber
primordial soup
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Aug 19, 2009 - 03:40pm PT
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sorry to hear that jeff
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cleo
Social climber
Berkeley, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 19, 2009 - 04:12pm PT
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I'm sorry Jeff - best wishes your way.
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cleo
Social climber
Berkeley, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 19, 2009 - 04:42pm PT
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Sonora Pass, 2 years ago:
thats better:
Echo Lakes
Meysan Lakes
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cleo
Social climber
Berkeley, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 19, 2009 - 05:15pm PT
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well, i found a few house call vets: fairly pricey at ~$250 for the visit, plus the body disposal -> $500!
not that i don't think it is worth it, but i'm a student with no income at the moment. My doggie is just as comfortable in the car as in the house, so if I can drive somewhere, have the vet walk outside, and save myself a couple hundred bucks, I'd like to do that.
this TOTALLY sucks!
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jstan
climber
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Aug 19, 2009 - 05:21pm PT
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Don't do the CO.
The experts have got me worried about that now.
Looking at the pictures it's clear your friend was a champ.
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cleo
Social climber
Berkeley, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 19, 2009 - 05:39pm PT
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Working on the SPCA. Nobody answered the phone. I'll try again.
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cleo
Social climber
Berkeley, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 19, 2009 - 05:50pm PT
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ok, i'm going to rant some more.
Sure, i can get a vet to do it, but they have to "exam" the animal first, for an additional $70. why? the examination should a) take 2-seconds and b) legally, anybody can put a dog down at any time... after all, they put down healthy dogs ALL THE TIME at shelters. that nutjob woman in Walnut Creek who shot her son was able to put her dog down, and I'd guess it wasn't really the dog's time!
And they're giving me crap about a 15 year old dog who is obviously suffering! Everybody wants $500 to deal with a sick old dog, and I'm betting it would all cost < $100 out in the country (in, for example, Vermont where I used to live... and this is also what google reveals for countless other locations).
I really hate living in the city. I really do. Why can't there be a decent vet around here?
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
New York, NY
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Aug 19, 2009 - 06:06pm PT
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oh, this is awful. I am so sorry.
Keep trying with the ASPCA. The one here in NYC has a separate location/phone for the hospital - could that be a possibility where you are?
Also, the Humane Society, if you have one nearby. When my Pico was ill and I couldn't afford the $200 office visit(up front), the Humane Society was able to help me. Their fees were less and they accepted what I could pay, with an agreement I would pay the balance when possible. They did all they could to help my Pico, and when I had to make the decision to let him go(he had kidney failure), the doctor was so kind and compassionate.
I hope that when you find your vet, they are of this type.
One other possibility might be to call some of the local people who care for strays and such. They may have a lead for you.
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Aya K
Trad climber
New York
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Aug 19, 2009 - 06:17pm PT
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Unfortunately you live in the city; it costs veterinarians more to practice in a city. This does make them not "decent". You're probably not going to find a new doctor who will euthanize your dog without an exam fee (was your current vet going to charge you an exam fee if they euthanized your dog? I've never seen a hospital that did not charge exams fees for euthanasia, but then I am on the east coast and perhaps things are different in CA); legally they need to have an established relationship with you to treat your pet.
The $70 you're paying is for the doctor's time and expertise in administering a lethal injection.
I can understand your current doctor's reluctance in coming out to a car; giving IV injections in cramped or poorly lit quarters, especially on a dark animal, could be very difficult and ultimately stressful for the animal anyway.
Perhaps you can call your regular doctor again, and ask them if they can give you some acepromazine (an oral sedative) that you can give to your dog an hour or so before the visit to the office? I've seen it work very well for lots of animals who are extremely stressed at the vet. Also, perhaps they're not willing to euthanize in your car, but they might be willing to give a quick shot (not IV) of a tranquilizer like dormitor in the car, and when he's sleeping, bring him in for the euthanasia? I definitely think it would be worth calling them again and trying to explore some options before giving up.
Also, lots of doctors these days offer care credit; you may wish to look into this if it would help to be able to spread the cost of the procedure over a certain amount of time instead of all at once.
Good luck.
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nature
climber
Tucson, AZ
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Aug 19, 2009 - 06:18pm PT
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cleo... I'm sorry you are going through this.
I just went through the same process 10 days ago. It's so hard.
I called a mobile vet who came to my home. My girl passed in my arms, in her home, with me whispering I love you to her. I then had called a pet cemetery to arrange her cremation. You might want to look into that as well.
Good luck on this journey. Feel free to contact me.
Doug
oh and if it means anything... I paid $195 for the visit and $105 for the private cremation.
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Bboi
Trad climber
San Francisco
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Aug 19, 2009 - 06:25pm PT
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Cleo,
I've had to put both my cats too sleep and the SF SPCA are the most caring, wonderful people to work with. And if I recall it wasn't too expensive.
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cleo
Social climber
Berkeley, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 19, 2009 - 06:29pm PT
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no, the $70 was for an exam. for which would NOT be required if I were using my own vet. the injection costs an ADDITIONAL $170. and the cremation $250. do the math, it adds up to about $500.
sorry for the rant, but I'm about to head east with the dog in the car to find somebody out in the country, because I think this is ridiculous.
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Melissa
Gym climber
berkeley, ca
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Aug 19, 2009 - 06:35pm PT
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I'm so sorry, Val.
I don't have the heart to read the whole thread, but I can make a recommendation for a very loving Berkeley vet who only makes house calls.
She prepared us for what we were to do in advance to prepare ourselves and a nice place, had us call when we knew it was the right day, and even gave us resources for dealing with our greif. The peace that I have for having dealt w/ my cat's congestive heart failure in such a gentle manner is huge.
Send me an e-mail, and I can give you the #.
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guyman
Trad climber
Moorpark, CA.
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Aug 19, 2009 - 06:38pm PT
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Cleo.... sorry.
I had to do this for "mo'" about 14 mo ago. Really, really hard to make the phone calls.
Mo didn't like his vet's office, lots of stuff went down there, and I didn't wish for him to be freaked out again.
I called a few vets and found one who would let me "have the body".
Going to a different vet didn't freak out Mo cause he liked other dogs.
The whole thing only cost me $85. It took less than 45 min. Start to finish.
I took Mo to his special place for burial.
Looks like Joey has lots of special places.....
Be strong for him.
GK
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SteveW
Trad climber
The state of confusion
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Aug 19, 2009 - 06:44pm PT
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Cleo
I'm so sorry about your friend. It's so hard to lose
such a member of the family.
I hope you're able to make decent arrangements for your pup.
Take care.
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atchafalaya
climber
Babylon
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Aug 19, 2009 - 06:47pm PT
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I feel your pain. I am going through the same type of bs here in sac with my dog.
I understand the student thing, times tight etc. But, No credit card???? Put it all on the card and pay it off later.
If no card, follow Ayas advice and ask about payments.
Agree to pay even if you dont have the money. One thing they dont teach in school is dont worry about debt. You will be burdened by debt for the rest of your life, so $500 is no big deal for your old friend.
Doctors, and vets will work out arrangements to take your money in various ways.
Give that dog a proper goodbye....
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L
climber
Wrung through the paradox, broken into wholeness
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Aug 19, 2009 - 06:55pm PT
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Oh dang, Cleo...I seem to remember when Joey had his leg removed--you posted about the ordeal, and how he wasn't doing so well...right?
And then he obviously recovered...and has lived such a beautiful life with you these couple of years. The downjacket at Sonora Pass photo was priceless.
I'm so sorry you're going through this now...I hope you find a good vet soon.
Blessings to Joey to guide him on his way
Blessing to you once he's out there breaking trail for you
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RS
Social climber
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Aug 19, 2009 - 06:58pm PT
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Without seeming heartless, have you considered an OD level of some pain killing prescription drug put in its favorite food? You could probably get that cheaper than anything I've read here, and your buddy can pass in a familiar place.
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Aya K
Trad climber
New York
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Aug 19, 2009 - 09:01pm PT
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cleo -
since you are concerned about $$ and your vet was not going to charge you the exam fee on top of the euthanasia fee, before you head east on what could be a wild goose chase, I would suggest that you call them again and ask them about getting some acepromazine to relax him before an office visit. It's very inexpensive. You could also then take the body home rather than having it cremated or buried for you, and bury him yourself in some special place.
The SPCA is another good resource, as others have suggested. They're much less expensive than private practices because they are subsidized by donations and other funding. I used to take my cats to the SPCA in NYC because it was half the price of a private practice.
Best of luck.
Rokjox - I'm very sorry you've had what are clearly awful experiences with veterinarians. You are, however, dead wrong. There are extraordinarily few vets who are in it for the money - mostly because there ISN'T any money in it. Particularly in the cities, where there is so much competition and overhead is so high. All of the practices I worked at in NYC were barely staying afloat. Things are better in the country, but to say that grieving pet owners are the meat and potatoes of veterinarians is ignorant and insulting.
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Ricky D
Trad climber
Sierra Westside
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Aug 20, 2009 - 12:22am PT
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Sad to hear about your dilemma but it sounds like the humane thing to do for your pup.
On the otherhand - remind me to never go car camping with JStan - especially if he mentions wanting to "turn on the heater".
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
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Aug 20, 2009 - 12:44am PT
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Condolences to you.
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