Discussion Topic |
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Gobee
Trad climber
Los Angeles
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Topic Author's Original Post - Aug 15, 2009 - 08:44am PT
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Gobee
Trad climber
Los Angeles
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 17, 2009 - 11:14am PT
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maldaly
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
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Aug 17, 2009 - 11:54am PT
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Gobee,
Thanks for being honest and making the thread title germane to the subject matter but would you PLEASE keep this stuff to a religious forum?
Thanks in advance,
Mal
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JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
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Aug 17, 2009 - 12:03pm PT
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You ever check out the book a Course in Miracles.
Thank You for the wonderful inspiration.
Do not be discouraged by the Godless Sinners that seem to infest this site.
Juan
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richross
Trad climber
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Aug 17, 2009 - 12:06pm PT
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Prod
Trad climber
A place w/o Avitars apparently
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Aug 17, 2009 - 12:20pm PT
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This would get me to the curch on time.
Prod.
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Chinchen
climber
Flagstaff?
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Aug 17, 2009 - 12:21pm PT
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Stop posting this sh#t please. Go to a forum where others share your views. I do not appreciate you using this forum for sharing your own personal religious beliefs.
This goes for football related threads as well....
f*#k off.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Aug 17, 2009 - 12:40pm PT
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Rich, Mal, Prod, Locker...
You guys better watch out
You're treading dangerous ground here
You could find yourselves in big trouble
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nature
climber
Tucson, AZ
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Aug 17, 2009 - 01:09pm PT
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posting this crap shows a complete lack of respect.
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TKingsbury
Trad climber
MT
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Aug 17, 2009 - 01:14pm PT
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agreed nature, on both sides....
EDIT: If you don't like it, let it sink...though I predict this thread will get more responses than a typical TR....just sayin
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Pennsylenvy
Gym climber
A dingy corner in your refrigerator
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Aug 17, 2009 - 01:32pm PT
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Can someone photoshop this for climbers. At least a couple of the passages are climber related, i.e. the proper way to fast, and advise on wine and wineskins.
Other than that, thew only appropriate response to this thread I can think of involves a blue butt plug.
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mojede
Trad climber
Butte, America
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Aug 17, 2009 - 01:41pm PT
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"Now, First thing, is to say this:
Much further out then inevitable
Halloween is thy game
Sky King has come
& Wilma's done
Uncertain as it is Uneven
Give us today hors d'œuvre's in bed
As we forgive those who have dressed up against us
And need us not enter inflation
But our liver, onions, & potatoes.
For wine is a shingle, and amore, and a story for your father.
Allright."
John Hartford-RIP
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Aug 17, 2009 - 01:46pm PT
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A monastery in the English countryside was having a hard time with its cash flow because of the dwindling number of monks available to help with all the work.
One day two of the monks, who had been discussing the problem, suggested they open a fish and chips stand down on the highway, right next to a scenic vista area popular with tourists. The other monks agreed, and Brother Ed and Brother Fred put up the stand.
It turned out that Ed was especially good at filleting, seasoning and cooking the fish, while Fred was a dab hand with the chips. (Fries, in American.) Their fame spread far and wide.
One day a tourist who wanted to offer a compliment came to the counter and said to Brother Fred, “Excuse me, are you the fish friar?”
“No, sir,” he replied, “I'm the chip monk.”
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Aug 17, 2009 - 01:51pm PT
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The Old Testament tells how Noah built an ark to escape an impending flood that threatened to wipe out every living thing, which god used to cleanse the earth, if not SuperTopo. Noah took one male and one female of all the species of animals that could not swim onto the ark, and rode out the flood with them.
When the waters subsided, the ark settled on the side of a mountain. Noah gathered the animals together, congratulated them on their good fortune and sent them on their way with the mandate “Go forth and multiply!”. So off they went gaily, two by two, and got on with filling up the earth again.
Noah and his family stayed on the ark to clean things up - naturally after 40 days and 40 nights, there was a lot to do. Pretty messy, really. Eventually they got to the lower hold, and in a dark quiet corner Noah saw two pairs of eyes gleaming in the dark. He looked closely, and saw that it was a pair of snakes. He said, in his best thundering biblical tone, "I commanded you to go forth and multiply. god wants you to do so. What's the problem? Why haven't you gone forth and multiplied?"
"We can't. We're adders."
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richross
Trad climber
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Aug 17, 2009 - 02:06pm PT
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My favorite Christ image.
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Russ Walling
Gym climber
Poofter's Froth, Wyoming
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Aug 17, 2009 - 07:56pm PT
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Chinchen
climber
Flagstaff?
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Aug 17, 2009 - 08:21pm PT
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I really wish that we could get an updated forum with sections for different topics...like religion, politics, bolt chopping FAQs...you know, all the important stuff. That way these idiots can post whatever they want and I can avoid it if I choose. Yea yea, I know, just don't read it. Well its a bit different when its all on one page. Plus it would make following threads a whole lot easier. Why is ST the only forum on the web that isn't split up by topic?
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Largo
Sport climber
Venice, Ca
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Aug 17, 2009 - 08:44pm PT
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Man, this is a tough room . . .
JL:
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Chinchen
climber
Flagstaff?
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Aug 17, 2009 - 08:49pm PT
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John, I just picked up a few of your books at a library sale. Thanks for giving so much back!
PS. For the record I have several of your works that I have also purchased from store...Keep it up!
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Blitzo
Social climber
Earth
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Aug 17, 2009 - 08:59pm PT
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No comment!
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paganmonkeyboy
climber
mars...it's near nevada...
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Aug 17, 2009 - 09:12pm PT
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gobee...
it seems to me that you are preaching more for your own insecurities than because you really believe any of this.
I'm going to ask you nicely to stop. this is not the place.
if you were smart you would understand this truth and react accordingly.
otherwise I'm going to post a 800 px wide goatse every single time you post anything. maybe you will find jesus inside...
capiche ?
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Aug 17, 2009 - 10:11pm PT
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"Man, this is a tough room . . . "
Seems like it's sort of an edgy time. I hope we all give each other a break.
Here's one Jesus sort-of principle I'd consider in choosing whether to flame or poach the OP.
Consider whatever standards you follow for your own thread creation and personal posting. If you post any random BS and slag, I'd let the brother post what he wants to share and let it rise or fall based on whether people are interested.
(that said, sounds like he was planning on a daily post, which is sort of like saying "I'm staking out %5 of the front page for my own cause and keeping it bumped" I'm not sure I'd be too supportive of anybody doing that with any OT subject>
Now a generic political thread and a generic religious thread is a great idea to allow folks to share their stuff without making a mess of the forum, that's not what we're talking about here.
peace
Karl
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Aug 18, 2009 - 12:31am PT
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Here's one Jesus sort-of principle I'd consider in choosing whether to flame or poach the OP.
Something interesting about this one Karl is that there really isn't much flaming or nastiness. A bunch of folks have -- fairly politely -- asked the OP not to post this kind of stuff, and a few others (me included) have posted pictures or cartoons that take an opposite view of religion to that posted by the OP.
Not really much to complain about in the grand scheme of things.
If I post something and a bunch of people -- politely, remember -- suggest that they'd rather not see that kind of thing again, then I might sulk for a bit, but I'd get the message.
My $0.02
David
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jstan
climber
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Aug 18, 2009 - 12:40am PT
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Spurred by the delightful readings here given I have inquired about the Koran.
It turns out the Koran was written after Christ’s time and contains many of the
stories and personnages in the Bible. Indeed stories in the Bible later found to
be incorrect are given in the Koran, including the original errors. Leading to
speculation among the faithful that God had intentionally misled Mohammed
giving him less than the absolute truth.
The source linked here also discusses the wonders wrought by God allowing
Mohammed, who could neither read nor write, to document God’s words
perfectly in the Koran.
We are blessed in that none of these kinds of questions revolve around our own
sacred texts.
Some initial background material.
http://mb-soft.com/believe/txo/koran.htm
The Koran, Qur'an or Qoraan
General Information
The Koran, or Qur'an (Arabic for "recital"), is the Sacred Scripture of Islam.
Muslims acknowledge it as the actual words of God revealed to the Prophet
Muhammad between c.610 and his death (632). The text contains 114 chapters
(suras), arranged--except for the opening sura--approximately according to
length, beginning with the longer chapters.
The Koran, termed glorious and wonderful (50:1; 72:1), describes itself as a
healing and mercy, as light and guidance from God (17:82; 27:77; 41:44; 42:
52), as the absolute Truth (69:51), and as a perspicuous Book sent down from
heaven in Arabic (12:1-2), part by part (17:106; 25:32), upon Muhammad.
Presented as a blessed reminder and an admonition to people everywhere (21:
50; 38:87; 80:11-15), it calls for grateful recognition of the many signs, around
us and in us (51:20-21), of the goodness of him from whom all good comes (4:
79) and urges a total commitment to him who alone is God (112:1-4).
Announcing Judgment Day as the final fulfillment of God's threat and his
promise (21:97-104), it warns evildoers and those who are ungrateful (17:89;
25:50) but brings good tidings to those who accept the guidance to the
straightest path (17:9) and who live in accord with its message and its
commandments (regarding marriage and divorce, children and inheritance,
lawful foods, spoils of war, and so on). The text asserts that its message is
neither a human invention (as its inimitability proves, 17:88) nor an innovation,
since it confirms and clarifies the Scripture that Jews and Christians had
received earlier (3:3; 5:15, 48; 35:31).
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Gobee
Trad climber
Los Angeles
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 28, 2009 - 02:24pm PT
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jstan,
Question: "Do Christians and Muslims worship the same God?"
Answer: The Muslim and Christian views of God have many similarities. Muslims and Christians agree that there is one God who is the Creator of everything in the universe. Both view God as sovereign, omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent, holy, just, and righteous. In these ways, the Christian and Muslim views of God are the same. However, there are also significant differences between Islam and Christianity’s view of God. While Allah (Allah is the Muslim and Arabic word for God) possesses the attributes of love, mercy, and grace, Allah does not demonstrate these attributes in the same manner, or to the same degree, as the God of Christianity.
The most important difference, though, between the Muslim and Christian view of God is the concept of the Trinity. Christians believe that God has revealed Himself as one God in three Persons: God the Father, the Son of God (Jesus), and the Holy Spirit.
God’s Son became a human being, Jesus Christ, to take away the penalty and power of sin by dying on the cross. After rising from the dead, Jesus went back to heaven to be with His Father. He sent His Spirit to teach men the truth through His Word, the Bible. One day, Christ will return to judge the earth; those who have trusted in Him will go to heaven, but those who have rejected Him must be separated in hell from the holy God.
Therefore, the belief in the Trinity is essential to the Christian faith. Without the Trinity, there is no incarnation of God in the Person of Jesus Christ. Without Jesus Christ, there is no salvation for sin. Without salvation, sin condemns all to hell. In Islam, Allah is not triune and does not have a son. Therefore, because of this key disagreement with the Christian faith, Muslims are not worshipping the God of Christianity.
So, instead of the question, "do Christians and Muslims worship the same God?" - a better question would be, "Do Christians and Muslims both have a correct understanding of who God is and what He is like?" To this, the answer is a definitive no. Because of crucial differences between the Christian and Muslim concepts of God, the two faiths cannot both be true.
Because the Bible provides the solution to sin, we believe that Christianity has the correct view of God. Becoming a human being, God’s Son died to pay for the sin of those who trust in Him. “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life” (John 3:16).
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apogee
climber
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Aug 28, 2009 - 02:26pm PT
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Bleeccch. Please stop doing that.
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reddirt
climber
Elevation 285 ft
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Aug 28, 2009 - 02:54pm PT
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the width of the original post is very annoying. it'd be forgivable if it were some scenic money shot.
oh well. it's friday. time to party :D
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jstan
climber
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Aug 28, 2009 - 05:01pm PT
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"Because the Bible provides the solution to sin, we believe that Christianity has
the correct view of God."
It is such a relief to hear that Christians believe they have "The correct view" of
god.
I am a little bothered though by the fact Christians also believe they are living
according to the rules laid out in the bible. Their beliefs seem to be rather hit
and miss.
Oh and I looked John Arthur up on the net, expecting to hear about someone
who died in 1850. No by golly! He is still around and I can even send him
money and get his stuff!
This is the first proof of the existence of god I have ever received.
If there were no god I would expect getting John Arthur's stuff would be
difficult.
As it is, it is unbelievably convenient.
So there you have it. After 2000 years, we finally have proof.
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maldaly
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
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Aug 28, 2009 - 06:38pm PT
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Saw a great bumber sticker today. It went something like this:
Jesus Loves You
Everyone Thinks You're An Asshole
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Gobee
Trad climber
Los Angeles
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 28, 2009 - 07:32pm PT
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What do you call it then when that guy pulled the teeth, cut off the fingers, and stuffed his ex wife in a suit case? (sin)
Or that couple that kid napped the girl and held her captive for 20 years?(sin)
But we have all sinned, that's what a Christian is admitting to God. But Jesus came and took are place for are sins, and forgives us.
That is the greatest love there is!
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saa
Social climber
SF Bay Area
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Aug 28, 2009 - 07:50pm PT
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"Because of crucial differences between the Christian and Muslim concepts of God, the two faiths cannot both be true. "
So the Muslims hold the truth? I knew it, I knew it...
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cintune
climber
the Moon and Antarctica
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Aug 28, 2009 - 10:24pm PT
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Gobee
Trad climber
Los Angeles
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 28, 2009 - 10:33pm PT
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Thanks cintune,
That's Bad!
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apogee
climber
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Aug 28, 2009 - 10:45pm PT
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Gobee, you are approaching the religion-equivalent of 'shut up and pull'. Quit while you're ahead.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Aug 28, 2009 - 11:23pm PT
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I find it a bit unsettling that there's a mob hysteria over a traditional Cristian view.
I don't find it any different on most levels than Karl's babbles or Werner's mythologies that don't (although from all logic they should)provoke the same kind of venom. But then it's fashionable to be vehemently anti Christian.
But, you don't need John MacArthur or anyone else to tell you what Christ said.
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apogee
climber
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Aug 28, 2009 - 11:29pm PT
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"But, you don't need John MacArthur or anyone else to tell you what Christ said."
Good point. So why is it necessary for Gobee to spray this sh*t here on a regular basis?
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Gobee
Trad climber
Los Angeles
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 28, 2009 - 11:37pm PT
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I stopped the regular posts, but I just answered jstan back.
As everyone banters back and forth.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Aug 28, 2009 - 11:37pm PT
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Karl and Werner do and it doesn't provoke the same vertipitude.
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NutellaJunkie
Trad climber
Adirondacks, NY
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Aug 28, 2009 - 11:38pm PT
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Prod's Nun......... Please hear my confession :)
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Gobee
Trad climber
Los Angeles
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 28, 2009 - 11:41pm PT
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My daughter likes Nutella!
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Aug 28, 2009 - 11:43pm PT
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They do,
You just don't notice.
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NutellaJunkie
Trad climber
Adirondacks, NY
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Aug 28, 2009 - 11:46pm PT
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That's cause Nutella is good ;) Is your daughter of legal age? lol!
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apogee
climber
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Aug 28, 2009 - 11:47pm PT
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Blasphemy!
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Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
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Aug 28, 2009 - 11:47pm PT
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"I find it a bit unsettling that there's a mob hysteria over a traditional Cristian view............But then it's fashionable to be vehemently anti Christian."
Very fashionable, indeed, TGT!
Perhaps if the mob hysteria reaches critical levels, the Lost Tribes will allow Christians to dwell with them in the caverns of the Earth's crust. Perhaps not as triumphant an exit as evangelicals would desire but it would suffice untill the so called "Rapture" comes to pass.
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GDavis
Trad climber
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Aug 28, 2009 - 11:49pm PT
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Wow, showing our true colors here aren't we? I appreciate the effort, Gobee, but as was once said (by someone who was 'kind of a big deal') don't cast yer pearls before swine.
Tough room.
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apogee
climber
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Aug 28, 2009 - 11:49pm PT
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Uh-oh, Jennie's here, and she's pissed. Bye!
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Aug 28, 2009 - 11:50pm PT
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Only LEB perseverates. Really.
The problem with Christians particularly, but also other brands of religion, is that many of them are fanatic proselytes, and simply won't take no for an answer. Which means they're in your face, all the time. Madison Avenue could teach them little about sales. They're often pushy and rude, and those that aren't are even worse.
In real life, you can simply ignore them, walk away, or sometimes ask them to leave. The behaviour of some so-called Christians wouldn't be tolerated for a second at the FaceLift. But there's no simple way to get rid of them here.
I must not have been a nice entity in some past life, to have been reincarnated in a world with religions and Republicans. All squawking away "I believe! I believe!"
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Aug 28, 2009 - 11:52pm PT
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Jennie your mythology is as wacky as Werner's, but there's no need for a fashionable dog pile.
As far as the pushiness,I've never experienced that from Christians or any other sect, cult etc. other than possibly JW's or Krishna's.
There is it seems a perception of pushiness among some that is probably guilt driven by personal issues they haven't dealt with.
Projection?
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GDavis
Trad climber
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Aug 28, 2009 - 11:52pm PT
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MH, your fear of christians coming onto the forum and 'taking over' seems a little... paranoid? This is probably the only pro-religious thread I've seen in 6 months, and the guy got vehemently cursed at by two dozen people already... maybe chill out a bit. Its not like he is the evil SUAP.
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Russ Walling
Gym climber
Poofter's Froth, Wyoming
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Aug 28, 2009 - 11:54pm PT
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Not sure which would be the more horrible overrun of the Forum..... Christians or Canadians....
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Gobee
Trad climber
Los Angeles
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 28, 2009 - 11:55pm PT
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I have a sister Jenny in Coeur d'Alene, Idaho
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GDavis
Trad climber
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Aug 28, 2009 - 11:56pm PT
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It seems all the canadians want to talk about is american politics these days. maybe they ran outta sheep?
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Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
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Aug 29, 2009 - 12:01am PT
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"Jennie your mythology is as wacky as Werner's, but there's no need for a fashionable dog pile."
My mythology ? You were the individual who claimed mormons believe the Lost Tribes were in caverns inside the earth. Were you trying to start a dogpile ?
Oh, that's right you changed it to 4% Mormons believe that. I have yet to find a mormon who believes such.
But I agree, there's no need for a dogpile, here, fashionable or not.
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Russ Walling
Gym climber
Poofter's Froth, Wyoming
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Aug 29, 2009 - 12:01am PT
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If I catch another Canadian sneaking over the border to get a good used kidney here in the USA, I'm going to go all DEATH PANEL on them.
Zeriously.....
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WBraun
climber
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Aug 29, 2009 - 12:03am PT
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LOL
Hahahaha this thread is funnier by the minute.
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GDavis
Trad climber
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Aug 29, 2009 - 12:03am PT
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what does NAFTA have to say about that Russ? Maybe we can make some kind of a deal, like take their livers/boobies or something.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Aug 29, 2009 - 12:05am PT
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When you live in Joshua Tree or Canada, the Death Panel® has already decided.
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Gobee
Trad climber
Los Angeles
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 29, 2009 - 12:06am PT
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you'll have to spleen-it to um!
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GDavis
Trad climber
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Aug 29, 2009 - 12:10am PT
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Josh is like a hotter canada that has more ticks on neighborhoodwatchdog.org
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Aug 29, 2009 - 12:33am PT
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Russ might be very surprised to learn how many SuperTopians were born in Canada, including a few well-known climbers.
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NutellaJunkie
Trad climber
Adirondacks, NY
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Aug 29, 2009 - 12:37am PT
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Do you think JC and Gobee approve of the 'Moosejaw' ads? ;)
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reddirt
climber
Elevation 285 ft
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Aug 29, 2009 - 12:43am PT
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The timesonline.co.uk said that Phillip Garrido said
(JEREMIAH 9:24)
"LET HIM WHO BOASTS BOAST ABOUT THIS: THAT HE UNDERSTANDS AND KNOWS ME, THAT I AM THE LORD, WHO EXERCISES KINDNESS, JUSTICE AND RIGHTEOUSNESS ON EARTH, FOR IN THESE I DELIGHT."
edit: you gotta scroll all the way down. and it may not be up for much longer.
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jstan
climber
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Aug 29, 2009 - 12:46am PT
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Me! Me! I approve.
But back on topic, ahem.
I would not say I disapprove. I would say I am confused when people who "believe" in turning the other cheek call for vengeance and for someone to be beheaded.
If we are civilized these kinds of things require due process, not opinion. It is a lynching that is being proposed.
So, I have to conclude, we have people who "believe" in turning the other cheek who, unfortunately, are not even civilized.
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Russ Walling
Gym climber
Poofter's Froth, Wyoming
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Aug 29, 2009 - 12:47am PT
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The entire High Desert has been re-named Thumbs_Down, in honor of the Obama_DEATH_PANELS.
No one here gets out alive
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jstan
climber
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Aug 29, 2009 - 01:02am PT
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Or dead.
It's like Hotel California.
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Gobee
Trad climber
Los Angeles
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 29, 2009 - 01:04am PT
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Break on through!
Thank You, JESUS
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reddirt
climber
Elevation 285 ft
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Aug 29, 2009 - 01:05am PT
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I just learned a new word: "cuniculicide"
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pip the dog
Mountain climber
planet dogboy
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Aug 29, 2009 - 01:08am PT
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i myself have no problem with people making _brief_ and personal references to their spiritual beliefs -- in a context pertinent to the thread at hand. all of us (except of course russ and fattrad) have at least some small spiritual facet. as such, the occasional _brief_ reference to it seems fine by me. helps me better understand my peers here. and aetheism is as much a leap of faith as theism, no?
OTOH, even the fay likes of me have (to date) successfully fought the urge to post the entire text of the Pardho Tai'choi (Tibetan Book Of The Dead), in Tibetan, just here.
i've never understood the evangelical urge. there are over 6 billion people currently on the planet -- and i bet'cha at least two of them have it all figured out exactly right. only they have no more chance of knowing that than the rest of us.
you make your best guess, work to live by it, and hope for the best. cajoling 27 other people to agree with you doesn't raise your chances of guessing right a wit. skip the billboards.
~~~
now as for canadians... General Russ D. Ripper is clearly dead right -- surely a clear and present danger. i say we go immediately to 'Plan R'
^,,^
~~~
PS: the Wicked Witch of the West was (and will forever be, locked in technicolor) a _HOTTIE_ -- not that i'm evangelical about it or anything (makes for more room on the dance floor for me and my wicked witch).
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Russ Walling
Gym climber
Poofter's Froth, Wyoming
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Aug 29, 2009 - 01:12am PT
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CRM 114
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NutellaJunkie
Trad climber
Adirondacks, NY
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Aug 29, 2009 - 01:14am PT
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This thread should be "cuniculicided" loL!
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Aug 29, 2009 - 01:20am PT
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WWJUD?
(= What would John Updike do?)
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pip the dog
Mountain climber
planet dogboy
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Aug 29, 2009 - 01:20am PT
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yeah, those canadians are clearly trying to sap and impurify our precious bodily fluids!
we must prevent the mine shaft gap!
OPE,
^,,^
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pip the dog
Mountain climber
planet dogboy
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Aug 29, 2009 - 01:26am PT
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> WWJUD?
hump the babysitter, go for a swim, then justify it all in his next novel.
^,,^
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Aug 29, 2009 - 01:30am PT
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He had a thing about rabbits.
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Redlands
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Aug 29, 2009 - 01:38am PT
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Organized religion is the greatest evil ever devised by mankind.
I prefer to engage with god directly, don't need any equally flawed humans trying to play middleman.
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reddirt
climber
Elevation 285 ft
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Aug 29, 2009 - 01:44am PT
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Russ Walling
Gym climber
Poofter's Froth, Wyoming
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Aug 29, 2009 - 01:46am PT
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At a minimum, they must be of a highly stimulating nature.....
"I told you never to call me here..."
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pip the dog
Mountain climber
planet dogboy
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Aug 29, 2009 - 01:55am PT
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"Doctor, you mentioned the ratio of ten women to each man. Now, wouldn't that necessitate the abandonment of the so called monogamous sexual relationship, I mean, as far as men were concerned?"
~~~
"Mein Furher! I Can Valk!"
(thud)
^,,^
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slobmonster
Trad climber
berkeley, ca
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Aug 29, 2009 - 02:00am PT
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Russ Walling
Gym climber
Poofter's Froth, Wyoming
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Aug 29, 2009 - 02:01am PT
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Swines...
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Redlands
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Aug 29, 2009 - 02:07am PT
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I saw more god in 8 hrs of LSD than 8 years of church.
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Aug 29, 2009 - 08:57am PT
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One of the best things about living in Japan is that we don't get entangled in these types of discussions. Japanese practice multiple religions simultaneously - Confucian humanism, Buddhism, Taoism, Shinto or Okinawan indigenous religion, and most are also familiar with the teachings of Christianity. Funny thing is, in spite of no clear dogma and the absence of talk about sin and salvation, it is still one of the most polite, considerate, safe, peaceful, and law abiding places on earth.
Religious tolerance results in a practical spirituality where people act as though they love their neighbor but refrain from preaching to others about it. By contrast, self righteous dogma western style, results in intolerence and antagonism between religions and ever growing numbers of people completely turned off by religion.
The reason that no one complains about Karl or Werner's eastern philosophy is that, unlike Judaism, Christianity, or Islam, it never launched a single holy war, crusade, witch or heretic burning. Likewise, people tolerate a lot of pro Christian sentiment when it comes from an obviously good hearted person like Lynne who doesn't push dogma, but rather, tells us joyfully, what worked for her.
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Prod
Trad climber
A place w/o Avitars apparently
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Aug 29, 2009 - 09:14am PT
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We need more sexy nuns in here!
Prod.
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Prod
Trad climber
A place w/o Avitars apparently
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Aug 29, 2009 - 09:17am PT
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Thanks better.
Prod.
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cintune
climber
the Moon and Antarctica
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Aug 29, 2009 - 09:37am PT
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville
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Aug 29, 2009 - 10:51am PT
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I pray for laughter.
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Prod
Trad climber
A place w/o Avitars apparently
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Aug 29, 2009 - 11:38am PT
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Pate,
Nuns need lovin too! They might not get it but they need it.
Prod.
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apogee
climber
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Aug 29, 2009 - 11:54am PT
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Prod
Trad climber
A place w/o Avitars apparently
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Aug 29, 2009 - 12:02pm PT
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I need to thank Gobee. In 39 years I never realized that I had a nun fetish.
Prod.
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kingpin
climber
methdeathsto ca
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Aug 29, 2009 - 12:15pm PT
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C'mon people,climbing forums are definitely a good place for religious discussion. They clearly go hand in hand. I mean just yesterday on the way to the crag, I stopped and had ritualized sex with an african american homosexual senior citizen burn victim amputee midget. Then I prayed to the almighty JUAN VALDEZ in order to prevent the FLYING SPAGHETTI MONSTER from raining flaming sh#t balls with severed penises hagning out of them down on me while I climbed. Im sure everyone dose something very similar, especially on tuesdays.
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d-know
Trad climber
electric lady land
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Aug 29, 2009 - 12:18pm PT
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this threads as useless as
a dick on a pope.
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apogee
climber
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Aug 29, 2009 - 12:19pm PT
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"Then I prayed to the almighty JUAN VALDEZ in order to prevent the FLYING SPAGHETTI MONSTER from raining flaming sh#t balls with severed penises hagning out of them down on me while I climbed."
Did it work? Yes?
Prayer works! Your religion is valid!
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kingpin
climber
methdeathsto ca
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Aug 29, 2009 - 12:43pm PT
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Of course it worked if it wasn't for the prayers of my loyal followers and me, stanislaus, tuolumne, and calaveras counties would be filthy with sh#t balls and severed penises. You can thank me for your salvation with a generous donation.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Aug 29, 2009 - 12:54pm PT
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Likewise, people tolerate a lot of pro Christian sentiment when it comes from an obviously good hearted person like Lynne who doesn't push dogma, but rather, tells us joyfully, what worked for her.
For me it works the other way. I have no problem with Gobee starting a thread like this. It was clearly labled, he did't do the shut-up-and-pull thing of spewing endlessly into it, and backed off from his original idea of daily postings when several people asked him not to do it. A thread like this is easily ignored, and if someone wants to argue about religion, they can do so without polluting other threads.
On the other hand, I find people who insert their religious views into threads on other topics really irritating. As you say, Lynne seems to be a good-hearted person, and I wish her no ill, but she does have a habit of introducing Jesus into virtually every discussion.
D
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Loomis
climber
*_*
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Aug 29, 2009 - 01:42pm PT
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zip
Trad climber
pacific beach, ca
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Aug 29, 2009 - 01:47pm PT
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loomis,
??????
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pip the dog
Mountain climber
planet dogboy
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Aug 29, 2009 - 01:55pm PT
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Prod,
i have now cured your incipient nun fetish. that will be US$275. send your check to:
Dr. Pip
Institute For Recovery After Catholic Reform School
Outer Bitterroots, MT 59847
~~~
either that or i've vastly expanded your incipient nun fetish. that will also be US$275. send your check to same.
^,,^
~~~
fwiw, The Sisters Of Perpetual Indulgence, Inc. really rock. in about '96 three of the Sisters showed up at burning man. they had 300lbs of makeup, costumes, and great gag gear -- only no water, food, or shelter. my feral minion met them and took them into our camp (which soon became a camp camp).
one of the gags they pulled off was a confessional out in the middle of the playa. people lined up to walk in, see a stunning light show out of the Wizard of Oz (recurring theme here) and hear this disembodied voice demand that they confess their darkest sins.
now lame stuff like "well, i kinda stole a wad of post-its from work" was immediately and loudly dismissed by 'the voice of god'. that same voice (big reverb -- which isn't easy to pull off in the desert, unless you actually are god) would then walk you through a series of questions that would make Freud blush... until you finally fessed up big time (or ran away). i figure they somehow wired up a mic and speaker -- but exactly how i never did figure out. the grilling in their confessional was _way_ too specific to have been on a tape loop.
at the end of this meltdown you were issued a personal penance -- in cash money. this money was then collected by a sister stationed just outside the confessional. you didn't have to pay up, you got a grin no matter what. but if you did, all funds went to community services much in need. how excellent.
much to my amazement, i was soon after nominated as a novitiate to this fine order by the three sisters who lived in our camp, for "saving their lives". which of course is hooey. though i did keep them hydrated and fed, if not always pleased. "Honey, I need a shower..." "honey, we all need a shower, dream on..."
sadly, i never got past the novitiate stage due to sexual orientation issues. my three new pals (sisters) did make a compelling case to their Mother Superior that i was a confused transgendered lesbian and hence qualified. but in the end, nah. as such i remain a novitiate and 'beloved pet' to the mighty sisters. so be it. i'm honored.
the same sisters also used to pick up stunning dinners from the best restaurants in SF and deliver them, in full makeup and with much humor, to my pal John in his last days after years of battling AIDS. they were piss your pants funny. made John laugh. made me wet myself and hyperventilate.
say what you will -- i say the mighty sisters rock!
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apogee
climber
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Aug 29, 2009 - 02:00pm PT
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loomis, that last one is gonna get you booted...just like the tub_girl...or the blue butt plug...
Careful...
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Redwreck
Social climber
Echo Parque, Los Angeles, CA
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Aug 29, 2009 - 02:03pm PT
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pip, I love you, man (or dog).
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Loomis
climber
*_*
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Aug 29, 2009 - 02:13pm PT
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Have no idea what you guys are talking about... : )
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Jim E
climber
away
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Aug 29, 2009 - 02:20pm PT
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Maplethorpe rocks.
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Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
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Aug 29, 2009 - 03:15pm PT
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"The reason that no one complains about Karl or Werner's eastern philosophy is that, unlike Judaism, Christianity, or Islam, it never launched a single holy war, crusade, witch or heretic burning."
I liked the spirit of your post, Jan., but you're clinging to a fragile limb with that statement. Most don't complain about Karl or Werner's philosophies out of respect and civility, not because there is a pristine history of pacifism in eastern religious traditions, that is lacking in western religions. (There has definitely been a strong pacifistic element in Judaism and Christianity.)
Both Eastern and Western religions promote social ethics and codes of conduct, teaching followers what's considered good and what's considered bad. However, over time, ill motivated people in power learned to manipulate these guidelines toward their own benefit.
Are you aware of the extent of Zen Buddhism's complicity with the Japanese war machine and the horrors it unleashed on Southeast Asia ? Are you coignizant of the role the Shinto religion played during the Second World War? Shinto was the state religion and demanded patriotism, loyalty and obedience. Throughout history, both east and west, governments tended toward invoke religion in the minds of their warriors, to lessen their fear of risking their lives and rationalize the taking of enemy lives.
So called Christian governments claimed to have divine authority; Hitler, himself an atheist, told the Nazis that god was with them. Japanese Kamikaze pilots believed that taking their own life in battle would please the gods. The hue of Shinto faith that the Japanese government indoctrinated in their soldiers is what made them so aggressive. That doesn't make Shinto "bad", but is evidence how government can use any religion to manipulate the masses.
The last century, American "beats" have had a strong fascination with eastern religions. Whether that was motivated by a true desire for enlightenment or just a contrarian reaction to Judaism and Christianity is debatable. But we in the west are closer to the outrages in western history and the misuse of religion and, therefore, myopic in regard to eastern religion's role in war and oppression.
" in spite of no clear dogma and the absence of talk about sin and salvation, it is still one of the most polite, considerate, safe, peaceful, and law abiding places on earth."
You could be right. But it wasn't always so. For a history of Japan's polite and considerate activities in China, read Iris Chang's Rape of Nanking.
Evil men and women can manipulate religion (or the lack of it) for evil and selfish reasons. Just as the atheist butchers of the twentieth century manipulated humanistic doctrine in communist China and the Soviet Union, to kill millions, so did selfish popes and kings use religion to promote the Crusades and egocentric warlords in the east use religion to trample on others and build their own empires.
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reddirt
climber
Elevation 285 ft
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Aug 29, 2009 - 04:10pm PT
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Karlisms & Wernerisms, unlike evangelical fundamentalist christianity, aren't exclusive, evangelical nor fundie (fundamentalist).
edit: followup to citune's pix. by Jeremy Collins, member of climbers' for Christ
edit 2: deleted cartoon of citune's pix per next post
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Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
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Aug 29, 2009 - 04:48pm PT
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Apogee, my post wasn't meant as criticism of Karl or Werner. I responded to the context Jan used them in sanitizing eastern religious traditions relative to Judaism and Christianity. I like Karl and Werner's posts. But Jan's suggestion that eastern religions haven't been used to aggresive or sinister pupose is naive.
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reddirt
climber
Elevation 285 ft
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Aug 29, 2009 - 04:54pm PT
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But when eastern religions are used in conflict, wars, etc (& to an extent Islam) it's usually in a tribal, ethnic way. Balkans. Sri Lanka. etc
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Jennie
Trad climber
Elk Creek, Idaho
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Aug 29, 2009 - 05:00pm PT
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True, but behind ideological guise, western wars have essentially been tribal. (Nationalism being a macro manifestation of tribalism)
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Redwreck
Social climber
Echo Parque, Los Angeles, CA
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Aug 29, 2009 - 05:20pm PT
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Proselytizing is a cornerstone of many flavors of Christianity, making it basically a big pyramid scheme. I have no problem with people's Christian beliefs but I have a big problem with them trying to win converts. I think the basic precepts of Christianity are ubiquitously enough known now that people should be left to find or reject them on their own without the sales pitch.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Aug 29, 2009 - 05:29pm PT
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A huge portion of Hindu mythology is devoted to epic wars and slaughter.
Buddhism isn't any cleaner in it's pacifist bonafides. After all the Bushido code is a direct outgrowth of Zen.
ALL religions have been used to justify aggression at some point or another.
What is curious is the denial that western civilization is a direct outgrowth of Christianity. To deny that is to deny your own birthright and history.
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mark miller
Social climber
Reno
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Aug 29, 2009 - 06:14pm PT
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I love Jesus, Mohammed and Werner but dude this thread should be NUKED.......
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Prod
Trad climber
A place w/o Avitars apparently
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Aug 29, 2009 - 09:55pm PT
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We need more hot nuns! Here!
Prod
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Aug 29, 2009 - 10:17pm PT
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Boy, you have a thing for uniforms.
Will Catholic school girl or nurse uniforms do it for you too?
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pip the dog
Mountain climber
planet dogboy
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Aug 29, 2009 - 10:20pm PT
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Prod,
for an additional $275 i am confident we can make further progress on this, er, issue.
if need be, we can always call in a specialist. Sister Larry Pile-Driver, SSJ, may be available for a consultation. i'll make the call...
^,,^
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Gobee
Trad climber
Los Angeles
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 30, 2009 - 02:57am PT
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Jesus is not a religion but the Son of God in the flesh.
He said #1 Love God with all your heart, soul, mind, and strength.
#2 love your neighbor as yourself.
Who is your neighbor, everyone even your enemy.
Jesus said if you love me, keep my commandments.
In 1John, John said if you don't love your brothers, then you don't love Him (Jesus).
So ALL religions are false;
Jewish, no Jesus?
Catholic, by routine
Bodist, you become God?
Muslims, not sure, but blowing yourself up isn't right!
Mormons, one wife is enough trouble, and she would say the same! lol
Jehovah Witness, I run...
Hindu, Holy Cow, I'm not returning as a toad!
Scientology, Aliens
Naturist, become one with everything?
Etc...
There are good and bad people in all religions
I have friends in all these religions and I love them all!
And if I was born where these were taught I could be in any of them!
But there is only one God, He is the maker we are the clay.
Made to praise our Holy Father God.
The Jesus in the Bible, states we have all sinned, and if you believe in him, your sins will be forgiven.
In Christ we are all the same, equals, brothers and sisters!
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Aug 30, 2009 - 04:35am PT
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Jennie-
You are right, any religion can be manipulated by clever rulers to direct the masses of people toward their own political goals. In fuedal Japan, the samurai class used Zen to justify their martial way of life (which is antithecal to actual Buddhist doctrine) and did so right up through WWII. Shinto rose to the ascendant as a way to modernize Japan since Zen and the samurai were so closely affiliated, and opposed to modernism. Ironic that one part of such a peaceful nature worshipping religion as Shinto (emperor worship) was used by clever rulers to justify WWII. However, no Japanese or western expert on Japan believes that religion was the root cause of the war in the Pacific. It turns out also, that many of the kamikazis did not kill themselves for the emperor but because they were told that their own families would be killed if they did not sacrifice themselves. As for Japanese atrocities in the war, those are traceable to many other more important aspects of their group- oriented culture than religion.Meanwhile, Zen has always been followed by a small minority of the Japanese. The Jodo, Nicherin and Shingon sects to name a few, are are all more popular.
To be sure, Buddhists in Japan and the rest of Asia have fought among themselves as have Confucianists, Taoists, and Hindus. There have also been warrior monks. The difference is that they fought over wealth and power for its own sake and never tried to claim that their fighting was God's will. I just think they were more honest about their motivations and its easier to reconcile people if the opposing parties don't claim to be operating from an exclusive realm of truth. How much more peaceful would our planet be, if the middle eastern originated religions could agree with the eastern precept that each religion represents a separate path up the mountain but that all are headed for the same summit?
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Jan
Mountain climber
Okinawa, Japan
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Aug 30, 2009 - 04:54am PT
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TGT-
I agree with your very important point that western civilization is a direct outgrowth of Christianity. I also agree that to deny that is to deny our own birthright and history. To understand the good that Christian ideals have brought to our society means that people need to know history (not most people's favorite topic) and that involves both the good and the bad.
I would say that just as Christians, Jews and Muslims have a bad record for violence so do members of eastern religions have a bad record overall for passively tolerating suffering and injustice in the name of karma. Why not try to combine the best of both religious views then and have a faith that is involved in trying to make the world better in a practical way without preaching dogma and certainly without the violence?
Of course as Jennie pointed out, there has been a strong pacifist streak in Judaism, Christianity and yes Islam, but members of those groups were often the first victims of persecution by their fellow religionists. My mother's family were Quakers so I'm very familiar with what their fellow Christians did to them because their teachings were different and they didn't fight back.
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Rockjunky
Trad climber
METHDESTO CA
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Aug 30, 2009 - 05:10am PT
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Or toss them both in the trash and wise up! THERE IS NO SANTA! EASTER BUNNY is not real either! Now THE TOOTH-FAIRY?....now that's some real shi* and he is running out of $ so quit giving it SANTA every Sunday.
if you need the P.O. box just let me know.
P.S.
do you think you need to be a 5.14 climber to send the route from hell?
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Prod
Trad climber
A place w/o Avitars apparently
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Aug 30, 2009 - 08:45am PT
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Pip,
There is no helping me now, I have seen the light and am a born again "nun freak", all sorts of em.....
Prod.
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cintune
climber
the Moon and Antarctica
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Aug 30, 2009 - 09:42am PT
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"The more I study religions the more I am convinced that man never worshipped anything but himself."
 Sir Richard Francis Burton
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elcap-pics
climber
Crestline CA
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Aug 30, 2009 - 12:50pm PT
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Thomas Edison said it best, "Religion is all bunk".
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Aug 30, 2009 - 04:15pm PT
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On the road but want to send much Love to my Christian Brothers and sisters.
I feel as much Christian as Eastern. Eastern gives me the meditation tools to quiet the mind and Listen to the subtle voice within. Christianity gives me the forgiveness and non-judgement to open my heart.
We may disagree on practice. Sometimes I feel Christianity's tendency to make people feel judged pushes them away. Doesn't have to be that way
PEace
karl
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