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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Topic Author's Original Post - Aug 12, 2009 - 02:23am PT
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The hot weather gave me a chance to venture up the Steck-Salathé again. Beauty of a route, fer sure.
Finally, new bolts on the route "replaced" some of the old ones. Thanks to the folks who did the dirty work.
When I first did the route, there were few bolts on the route. I remember one on the face pitch, a couple of badly broken star-dryvin bolts in the chimney before the narrows. Then some above at a belay next to the chockstone.
I always hoped those in the chimney would be replaced--someone with the stamina to haul the bolt kit up there.
But over the years, I've watched bolts sprout up here and there on the route, but never replacing the broken bolts. A couple of new ones on the face pitch. Then a couple at the belay for the Narrows. And now, a couple more for a belay after the narrows.
I'm real happy that the ones in the chimney were finally replaced--those were the most-needed of all. But, it seems only one was really "replaced," while the other was re-placed. It's now on the other side of the chimney. Pretty strange.
The new bolts in the chimney do make the pitch more pleasant. I just wish that whoever did the work didn't find a need to move them. Also, I'm hoping that these are the last of the added bolts.
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ß Î Ø T Ç H
Boulder climber
the ground up
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Aug 12, 2009 - 04:01am PT
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with just a pair of aiders (no rope etc) you can just clip around all over the place up there - the days of specific routes is over .
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mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
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Aug 12, 2009 - 04:07am PT
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Can't wait to hear the responses once this hits the Tacostand tomorrow!
Retro bolting the SS, what a disgrace.
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Aug 12, 2009 - 04:19am PT
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Sometimes those Star-Dryvins are hard to pull, even when they are not broken off. Maybe when they were broken off, one of them became about impossible to pull. Strange that the replacement was not put next to the old hole, but on the other side of the crack?
I remember asking Bruce Bindner about it, as he did the initial replacement. At the time, he did not replace those on the 5.8 chimney. He felt a person could just lug a big cam up there to protect it. I remember clipping them before they were broken, and being glad I had them. Originally that pitch tunnelled deep inside at 5.4 or so. But then blocks shifted and people had to climb the 5.8 on the outside; that's when the bolts were placed. That seems original enough. It gets a little tricky when maybe they are not needed if you have a #5 Camalot.
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Burt
Trad climber
Las Vegas, Nv
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Aug 12, 2009 - 04:21am PT
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it's everywhere, I know here in Red Rocks it's not the SS but a lot of our classics have been bolted into submission. Belay bolts added, protection bolts added, it's a disease, and a disgrace. Some routes had no climber impact, no slings, no bolts, it was great to take clients up them. A few are starting to restore these to the way that they should be and bless them for that.
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Rankin
climber
North Carolina
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Aug 12, 2009 - 08:21am PT
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Yeah, I always love the rationale, "but it would be so inconvenient to have to carry that cam up there..." What a joke. When I climbed SS, I remember clipping a couple old creepy bolts. No big deal. You should carry a #5 friend on the route anyway to protect the narrows. The problem with bolting is, once some people start doing it, they like it. And I'm not talking about clipping the bolts, I mean placing the bolts. We'd be so better off if these people just got jobs in construction and took up bowling.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Aug 12, 2009 - 09:14am PT
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I think Brutus went back and replaced the chimney bolts later. The vast majority of maintenance of SS has been by him. I seem to remember bolted anchors before and after the narrows. Are you sure about saying there were no bolts there before?
Peace
Karl
Edit: Dingus is right. I remember. If there were any modifications from the original, Brutus discussed them in advance with Steck.
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steelmnkey
climber
Vision man...ya gotta have vision...
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Aug 12, 2009 - 10:12am PT
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Amen to that Dingus and Karl.
Allen was fully behind the work Brutus was doing.
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Roger Brown
climber
Oceano, California
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Aug 12, 2009 - 11:01am PT
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At the top of a pitch this summer I had to replace an anchor while sitting down. I couldn,t stand or kneel. I couldn't even hang over the edge. It was the dumbest anchor I have ever seen. If I was half the man Bruce was I would have moved it up where it belonged.
Roger Brown
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scuffy b
climber
Sinatra to Singapore
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Aug 12, 2009 - 11:19am PT
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There was some reason for moving that 2nd bolt in the chimney,
but...
When Will led it, he started facing Left and turned around at
some point.
I faced Right the whole way, so the bolts were both behind me
when I got to them.
The IMPORTANT POINT, however, is that we need a STORY from
k-man!!!!!!
I know you've got some juicy details to lay on us.
And, as Will proved, you don't even need pictures (of your own)
and you can quote liberally from previous reports.
How was the Narrows pitch?
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bwancy1
Trad climber
Here
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Aug 12, 2009 - 11:33am PT
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Well, I'm out of my league here, but I want to point out that at some point the FA'st opinion on retrobolting begins to hold less weight. Steck Salathe as it was experienced by thousands for 50 years before retrobolting, holds a place for those thousands.
I have never climbed SS, but if I had hung it all out there to pull it off, I would be pretty bummed if it were retrobolted later, even with Allen's consent.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Aug 12, 2009 - 11:48am PT
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"Convenience" bolting of long-established routes in Squamish is also becoming an increasing problem. Those who do it often seem to have good intentions, but rarely seem to take the trouble to discuss their plans within the community outside their 'posse' beforehand. It also seems common courtesy for them to at least mention their plans to those who did the first ascent, if possible. They don't 'own' the route, or have a veto, but it just seems polite. They may well have context and perspectives that would inform the debate about what to do.
Sadly, the road of convenience bolting is a one-way street, and they're not making any more rock.
Edit: Not referring to bolt-for-bolt replacement, of course, such as is done by Roger and Clint.
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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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Aug 12, 2009 - 11:49am PT
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I don't know if we can put a time limit on the first ascentionists ability to ok changes. Like it or not, with John Salathe's absence, Allen Steck gets the say.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Aug 12, 2009 - 12:10pm PT
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It's been freesoloed a number of times, should all the bolts be removed?
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Doug Robinson
Trad climber
Santa Cruz
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Aug 12, 2009 - 12:12pm PT
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Those old Star Dryvins are a special pain to replace. Fifteen years ago I replaced the bolt ladder on the East Buttress of Middle, and halfway through I almost wished I hadn't started. They actually seemed pretty bomber (they were 3/8" and hard to pull) compared to 1/4" splitshaft mank.
The tricky part of replacing them was getting the old lead shield completely out of the hole. Fortunately we had a dental pick, cuz it took a lot of digging around to get all the pieces of lead out. If you didn't, the drill would bind on it trying to clean out and deepen the hole.
It's hard to imagine just casually tossing a bolt kit into your gear to go up the Steck-Salathe. The first time I did it we bivied on purpose on top of the Flying Buttress. Not a very comfy sleeping ledge, and hauling the pack through the Narrows was a special delight. Next time we just clipped a water bottle on the harness and things went much smoother, though we bivied anyway, unplanned that time, on the summit. Thankfully we had matches.
But carrying a bolt kit, not to mention an hammer -- what a pain! That's a tight climb.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 12, 2009 - 12:13pm PT
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Clint, I've lead that chimney pitch a number of times, and I'll be darned to call it 5.8! I think the SuperTopo calls it .10b now. Reid sez 5.9. All I know is most of the time I was scared silly trying to fenagle RPs into an expando flake, just wishing somebody would replace those old bolts. Why those didn't get replaced first before new ones sprouted on the face was always a curiosity to me.
As for when the original bolts were placed in the chimney, they were the same as the ones on the outside of the Narrows--Star Dryvin with square aluminum hangers. They looked pretty darn original to me. So I wonder when all these original bolts were placed. (BTW, there is also a similar, broken bolt on the second-to last pitch.)
I want to say thanks to Brutus for all the work. I always wanted to replace those chimney bolts, but was too small to actually pack the goods when I went up there. The bolts in the chimney pitch still had the nails in them, bent and facing down. This time up, I looked really hard for evidence of where they might have been, I could find none. So I'm guessing the first was placed in the original hole, and I could find no trace of the "original" second (good work!).
Bother-A got to enjoy the lead this time. And a funny thing--he got half-way up the chimney there and thought he had a piece squishing his back. When he went to slap it down, it was no piece, it was the new bolt, on the right side of the crack! So yeah, I wonder about why it was placed there.
IMHO, the belay bolts before the Narrows are totally unnecessary (and added before the chimney bolts got replaced). I got great cams in a crack/flake, which the bolts are right next to. And the bolts now at the top of that pitch are new. Although, I must say, they are kinda hidden, so who knows? I've been up there a few times and never saw them before.
As for a #5, naw, don't need it. A #4 Camalot fits fine. And Scruffy, need a story? Well, this was the second time I was too big to fit through those narrow things. What a hassle! Didn't help that I was towing a pack, I guess. But, while the Narrows is a classic Yosemite pitch, going on the outside is one of the stellar pitches also. You get the most exposure on the entire climb, and man, those are some moves getting out and established above the lip!
Cheers...
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bhilden
Trad climber
Mountain View, CA
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Aug 12, 2009 - 12:58pm PT
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DR,
one way to get the lead from a Star Dryvin out is to screw a 3/8" lag screw into the hole and into the lead sleeve. When the screw bottoms out you can either keep turning it and hope that the lead moves its way up the screw and out of the hole or use a crow bar to lever the screw and lead out of the hole. Thanks to Clint for this tip.
As far as convenience bolting is concerned, it is also alive and well in Colorado. I sat in at an Eldorado Fixed Hardware Review Committee meeting and watched as one of the legends of climbing in Colorado wanted to have a double bolt anchor placed at the top of the first pitch of Blind Faith because they didn't like the second pitch of the climb and wanted to be able to just rap off after doing the first pitch. Amazing. Luckily the proposal was voted down.
Bruce
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