Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
piquaclimber
Trad climber
Durango
|
|
|
Aug 11, 2009 - 01:37pm PT
|
Russ,
Thanks for the info. 2000 lbs sounds good to me. I'll call you when my current Yates wear out.
Xtrmcat,
Seriously? You can't think of any advantages of having a daisy that has a working load of 2000 lbs vs 300 lbs?
Lambone,
I am able to lengthen my Yates with one hand.
|
|
Russ Walling
Gym climber
Poofter's Froth, Wyoming
|
|
|
Aug 11, 2009 - 01:49pm PT
|
Just to clarify some of the terms being used.
WLL, or Working Load Limit is the amount of weight a given widget is designed to handle with absolute safety. In industry the WLL is usually 3x or 5x depending on what county the widget comes from or how they decide to rate it. So, a daisy rated to 300lbs WLL, will probably break at 3 x 300 = 900lbs, or if they are doing the 5x thing, 1500lbs.
SWL, or Safe Working Load I believe is the same thing. You will see this stamped on the side of metal hooks (like Mussy Hooks) etc. There is also a different term for stuff used "overhead" but it escapes me. Same idea though.
Breaking Strength is the poundage it takes to bring the unit to failure, one way or another.... so the daisy I broke at 2000lbs, would have a "breaking strength" of 2000lbs (+/-) but that is in no way the WLL or the SWL.
Got it? 'cause YER GONNA DIE!!!!!!!
|
|
Melissa
Gym climber
berkeley, ca
|
|
|
Aug 11, 2009 - 01:54pm PT
|
I use Yates with the following caveats:
I consider it a very disposable item and part of the expense of me doing a climb the way I prefer. A fuzzy old daisy that requires an extra 10 lbs. of force every time I adjust it isn't worth the strain.
I always have traditional daisies in the bag for the if and when the adjustable blows. I've had a brand new one start slipping on p1. Usually they live to be retired for the reason above though.
If I'm not adjusting the daisy in the name of moving faster (just about never happens), I use traditional daisies so that hopefully only my spleen or placement is destroyed if I fall.
People have taken big ugly falls with both the Metolius and the Yates, I'm pretty sure, when they fell onto them and the daisies broke.
I never got the hang of the Metolius adjusting scheme. I'm impatient with new methods though when the ones I already know are working OK for me.
|
|
piquaclimber
Trad climber
Durango
|
|
|
Aug 11, 2009 - 01:59pm PT
|
It would be nice to see a breaking test on a pair of all three types.
If we get some to you Russ, can you break them and post the results?
|
|
Russ Walling
Gym climber
Poofter's Froth, Wyoming
|
|
|
Aug 11, 2009 - 02:02pm PT
|
Yeah.... I can break stuff or you. There is also a guy called Aric on here and on rc.com that is way into breaking stuff and has some nice equipment.
Either way.... I'll try to wake him up right now with an email and get him over here. Email sent....
|
|
the Fet
Supercaliyosemistic climber
Tu-Tok-A-Nu-La
|
|
|
Aug 11, 2009 - 02:07pm PT
|
You can get a Fish with replacement webbing for less than the cost of Yates. Good deal.
I don't know about those 80s colors though :-).
|
|
Jay Wood
Trad climber
Fairfax, CA
|
|
|
Aug 11, 2009 - 02:16pm PT
|
I have some Yates speed stirrups that slipped.
They were not very worn, but with an older buckle style that is not as stout as the current one.
After considerable thought and experiment looking for a lighter and better set up, I've gotten this far.
They haven't been out for a real road test yet, but seem to work well. I used them without the clevis pin, and they held and adjusted well, but the webbing could twist out of position and then slip.
Have also been experimenting with adjustable daisy made from a cordalette and a Ropeman ascender, as suggested by somebody. Promising, tho a bit tricky to extend with one hand.
|
|
adatesman
Trad climber
philadelphia, pa
|
|
|
Aug 11, 2009 - 02:19pm PT
|
Hey all,
Russ just dropped me an email to lure me out of lurk mode... If he'd like to bow out of the testing due to possible conflict of interest issues I could certainly do it (I'm the guy over in The Lab on RC who amuses himself with this sort of thing). I'm a bit booked at the moment so not spending much time here, so just drop me an email if you need me.
-aric.
|
|
Russ Walling
Gym climber
Poofter's Froth, Wyoming
|
|
|
Aug 11, 2009 - 02:29pm PT
|
hahaha! Conflict of interest? naw.... I can smell crap just as good as the next guy, be it mine or the other guys.
You have the cool equipment and can give the charts and graphs that are pretty neat.
Glad you came on over!
|
|
adatesman
Trad climber
philadelphia, pa
|
|
|
Aug 11, 2009 - 02:35pm PT
|
Heh... Perhaps I'm a bit touchy about those sorts of things lately as I've had 3 of the manufacturers a bit grumpy with me so far this year. :-)
But yeah, my setup is pretty nice. Not without its flaws though... I still want to figure a (cheap) way to integrate a distance measurement with the force measurement as that would be much more meaningful. And lately I've been having sync problems with the video for some reason, which means I can't fold the display of the strain gage indicator into the video of the test. But the charts from the datalogger are sweet. :-)
|
|
Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno
|
|
|
Aug 11, 2009 - 03:36pm PT
|
"Heh... Perhaps I'm a bit touchy about those sorts of things lately as I've had 3 of the manufacturers a bit grumpy with me so far this year. :-) "
I'm pretty sure we don't really give a sh#t what the manufacturers think. I know, personally, I'd just like to know the reality, when it comes to gear. Not the warm fuzzies they try to give me with marketing.
|
|
Jingy
Social climber
Flatland, Ca
|
|
|
Aug 11, 2009 - 03:47pm PT
|
I just got a pair of Petzl adjustable daisy... haven't used it yet.... but it looks pretty good to go!! LOL
Sorry.. not actually input to the stated question...
next
|
|
Oplopanax
Mountain climber
The Deep Woods
|
|
|
Aug 11, 2009 - 04:06pm PT
|
Try an adjustable fifi instead?
|
|
John Mac
Trad climber
Littleton, CO
|
|
|
Aug 11, 2009 - 04:40pm PT
|
I have a spare Fish and a spare Yates I could donate to testing. Tell me where to send it and I'll pop them in the mail... This would be a good thing to do.
I mentioned it the other day on another site that I had gone back to using standard daises ...
|
|
adatesman
Trad climber
philadelphia, pa
|
|
|
Aug 11, 2009 - 04:45pm PT
|
Cool. The address is 47 Prospect Ave, Norristown, PA 19403.
Just include a note saying how you'd like them tested/fixtured. IIRC the puller has 24" of stroke on the cylinder, so keep that in mind. If you'd rather I drop a bunch of steel to it then no worries on the distance.
|
|
John Mac
Trad climber
Littleton, CO
|
|
|
Aug 11, 2009 - 04:57pm PT
|
I'll get them in the post before the end of the week...
I'll leave up how they are tested to the "virtual fireplace." I really have no idea.
|
|
xtrmecat
Trad climber
Kalispell, Montanagonia
|
|
|
Aug 11, 2009 - 06:13pm PT
|
"Xtrmcat,
Seriously? You can't think of any advantages of having a daisy that has a working load of 2000 lbs vs 300 lbs? "
Piquaclimber, no I really see no reason whatsoever to need a daisy that will need to hold that much more weight than me, rack, ropes and drag. Any more than that would hopefully never get used, and if the daisy were stonger, would just strip out the gear I'm on and kidneys and spleen, and spine, etc. It is a daisy, I never found a need to use it for anything else like my anchor, supporting extra like the piggy, and on and on.
Am I missing something? Russ kind of answered it anyhow, just because Met rated it for three hundred pounds, I have loaded mine well over that thousands of times. I weighed in a dainty 270 for the last couple years, and never even noticed increased wear on the gear.
Bob
|
|
roy
Social climber
New Zealand -> Santa Barbara
|
|
|
Aug 11, 2009 - 08:12pm PT
|
Hi,
I've used both the Metolius and the Yates. The Metolius is easier to extend while clipping, but the Yates looks beefier. At least that's what I though until I fell on one. My top piece blew as I was leaning down to clip the rope through the piece I was standing on. The lower piece was at knee level and I had maybe 6" of slack in the daisy. Pilot error, and the result ...
Yes, I still have my spleen. I didn't even feel it blow and didn't realize what had happened until I looked up. The aider was 15' above me and no longer connected to either me or the rope. Basically the teeth ripped through the webbing.
I'm intrigued by Kate's system but then I'm a sucker for new gear.
Cheers, Roy
|
|
Russ Walling
Gym climber
Poofter's Froth, Wyoming
|
|
|
Aug 11, 2009 - 08:21pm PT
|
Looking for feedback....
I've sent out tons of stuff with the standard "let me know that works" when you are done request. I get like zero feedback.
so: here is the question again:
FISH/Yates style adjustable daisy chain. Some have 1" ClimbSpec webbing in them, and some have regular flat Aider style webbing in them. Which one works better, lasts longer, gets to be more fuzzy, sketch, whatever....
Anyone tried both types of webbing and can give a good account of the performance?
|
|
Moof
Big Wall climber
A cube at my soul sucking job in Oregon
|
|
|
Aug 11, 2009 - 08:45pm PT
|
Russ,
Mine originally came with the climb spec stuff (smooth tubular), which I gave good props for some time back. At the time you corrected me and said I must be wrong, you only used the thick flat stuff, and that I must be a kook.
Anyway...
My main feedback on the Fish adjustables is as follows (I've posted this all before is some form...):
1. The biner dogbone should be as short as you can get it, your are about 1-1.5" longer than Yates. There is no need to make the pocket any bigger than what is needed to rotate a locking biner though the hole. Yates also "rolls" the webbing at the biner point, which makes no difference in my experience, but looks more "professional". Yates even went from 4 tacks to 3 tacks sometime in the last few years and shortened theirs another fraction of an inch.
2. Climb spec is easier to pull through, and lasts a little longer in my experience (using one Yates and one Fish side by side). However the climb spec stuff gets sucked into the buckle and FUBAR'd easier and more often than the thick flat, which is maddening. Overall thick flat is my preferred option.
3. Your daisies are a proper length, even recent Yates ones are a bit short (and I'm only 5'9").
4. At least the girth hitch I got on my pair was massive and overkill. A girth hitch barely big enough to pass the buckle through is key in my opinion (about 3"). With the small dogbone and a small girthing loop it is pretty easy to go without a fifi. Stock Fish girth loops force the use of a fifi for second and top stepping for me on anything steep. I hate fifi's and keeping them out of my system is my favorite thing about using adjustable daisies.
5. Many folks are less color blind/indifferent than you are. I am red/blue obsessed to help tame the cluster. You could get a special niche by being more aware of this, and selling contrasting pairs, and not just whatever is at your finger tips when the order comes in. When I ordered mine I tried to be clear about getting one red, one blue plus a set of replacement webbing. I got two red ones (climb spec), and got two replacement straps that were blue (thick flat). Close, but no cigar. I cut one red strap off and put on one of the blue straps. Stoners lost my blue one and replaced it with a Yates which is how I have side by side comparisons. Those buckles finally wore out (after probably 4-5 more webbing replacements), and I replaced them both with Yates from the Mountain Shop so I could be sure to get contrasting colors (though they did not have red, bummer).
My $0.02.
|
|
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!