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Fluoride
Trad climber
Hollywood, CA
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Topic Author's Original Post - Jul 20, 2009 - 02:49pm PT
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I took a big rock directly to the head on Sun Ribbon Arete on Friday. Like brick sized from about 50 ft up. Couldn't go anywhere as I was anchored in, just braced against the rock and hoped for the best. My awesome old HB helmet totally saved the day.
How that thing didn't kill or at least seriously injure me is a miricle. The impact cracked the Hell out of my hardcore helmet.
While I'm okay, my poor helmet is a gonner. That thing was bombsquad. And I don't think they make them anymore. The crappy looking climbing helmets of today are a joke in comparison.
Any good rockfall vs. your helmet stories? Wondering if I was insanely lucky or my old lid just did it's job.
Oh, and PICS!!!:
The crack would have gone side to back if not for layers of some kind of polycarbonite throughout it.
Me and helmet in much happier times. It was ridiculous looking how high it rode on my head, but that 3 inches of space between the webbing and actual helmet saved me a world of hurt (or worse)...
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Jul 20, 2009 - 02:51pm PT
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Damn that is lucky. Glad you are ok and it's good to hear that helmets can work that well with such a large rock. I remember a pebble-sized rock came off of Royal Arches when we were scoping a stranded party from the base in 1998. It hit Scotty Burke's SAR helmet (similar make to yours) and cracked it pretty good.
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L
climber
The Paleozoic rift of the Caradoc drift
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Jul 20, 2009 - 02:52pm PT
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Wow Fluoride!!! Glad you came away unscathed.
RIP Ol' Helmet...doing it's job to the very end.
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Fluoride
Trad climber
Hollywood, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 20, 2009 - 02:57pm PT
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Thanks Laura.
I am so bummed about this helmet. It was heinous looking, I looked like I was doing construction work. But it was so incredibly bomber.
After looking at typical climbing helmets (went to A-16 to replace it yesterday, nothing but crap) I can' find anything that compares. The stuff I looked at yesterday wouldn't have come close to absorbing what hit me. I'm beyond lucky for that damn thing to have been on my head when I really needed it.
Damn alpine rock.
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SteveW
Trad climber
The state of confusion
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Jul 20, 2009 - 02:59pm PT
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Flouride
Glad you survived!
Don't like the Black Diamond helmets?
I haven't been hit by a rock with my half dome,
but it sure protects me from falling/chopped ice.
of course none of us looks good in a helmet. . .
'hair by helmet'!
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Jul 20, 2009 - 02:59pm PT
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I am soooo glad you weren't hurt!!!! Man, that is taking a hit.
EDIT: "of course none of us looks good in a helmet..."
Au contraire - Flouride does...
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Jul 20, 2009 - 03:00pm PT
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Bummed about the helmet? I'd have the thing mounted in my living room. Thank god you were wearing one. If it weren't for that bucket this would be another "horrible accident in the Sierras" thread. Too many of those recently.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Jul 20, 2009 - 03:02pm PT
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Good thing the rock hit you on the head (covered by helmet)
A rock that size could have easily smashed your shoulder or broke your collarbone.
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Domingo
Trad climber
El Portal, CA
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Jul 20, 2009 - 03:02pm PT
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The one time I was on Glacier Point Apron, I got bowled down by a huge rock - probably brick sized - in my Half Dome helmet. Thing didn't even crack but my ears were ringing and my neck hurt for days afterward.
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Russ Walling
Gym climber
Poofter's Froth, Wyoming
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Jul 20, 2009 - 03:03pm PT
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Glad you are still with us......
Try one of these as a bomber replacement:
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apogee
climber
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Jul 20, 2009 - 03:04pm PT
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Holy shizzle! Glad you're ok...how's your neck?
There are places where helmets are not really necessary, and then there's Temple Crag- an obviously really good place for a helmet...
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Redwreck
Social climber
Echo Parque, Los Angeles, CA
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Jul 20, 2009 - 03:06pm PT
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Wow. Glad you're okay!
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Fluoride
Trad climber
Hollywood, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 20, 2009 - 03:08pm PT
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Thanks HDDJ. Gotta have a helmet in the alpine no doubt.
I can't believe how much loose rock there was up there. I was prepared for the usual amount of falling alpine rock but Temple was way worse than I expected.
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rhyang
climber
SJC
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Jul 20, 2009 - 03:08pm PT
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Yikes ! Glad to hear you're ok. I wear a petzl ecrin roc for ice climbing (lots of ice chunks falling) .. heavy, but bomber.
But lately I've been wearing an older petzl elios for rock .. maybe I should think about using the ecrin for things like temple crag.
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Jul 20, 2009 - 03:09pm PT
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I'll join the chorus, very glad you're OK!
As for hard vs. soft helmets, I understand they have different properties. The newer foam-lined ones,
like my BD Tracer, are supposed to compress and absorb impacts better than a sling suspension,
although the shells themselves are more flimsy. Which you want might depend on what hits you?
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apogee
climber
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Jul 20, 2009 - 03:10pm PT
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I have a similar helmet quandry- I have an old Petzl Ecrin that is almost 2 decades old- it has been subjected to untold UV rays, and I kinda doubt it would handle a dropped 'biner, let alone a brick like that....
Anybody have suggestions for a bomber, reasonably lightweight helmet that has enough room for a ballcap style hat or balaclava? Like you, I haven't been impressed by anything I've seen on the market these days...
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Jul 20, 2009 - 03:10pm PT
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Any good rockfall vs. your helmet stories?
I've never put my climbing helmet to any serious test, but I wouldn't be here writing this if it weren't for my bike helmet. Lost it on a too-fast corner, tried to jump the curb, but failed, and went sailing through the air. Last thing I remember was the sound of my helmet hitting something. When I regained consciousness my head was the only part of my upper body that wasn't broken. My doc told me the radiologist had gone running round the hospital with my x-rays shouting "Look at this! Look at this! I've never seen this before!"
So, here's to helmets. I'm glad yours did its job, and wish you luck finding a new one that isn't a glorified bike helmet. (Edelrid used to make an incredibly burly helmet, but I don't know if they still do.)
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slobmonster
Trad climber
berkeley, ca
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Jul 20, 2009 - 03:11pm PT
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Flouride: glad you're OK.
Caughtinside and I climbed Sun Ribbon the day after you got bonked, and I can certainly echo your comments re: loose everything everywhere. We had met your friends (?) the night before, and heard about someone getting hit by rockfall...
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Jul 20, 2009 - 03:12pm PT
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if Fluoride was a president her name would be 'Babe-raham Lincoln'.
glad you're o.k.!
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Fluoride
Trad climber
Hollywood, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 20, 2009 - 03:18pm PT
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Hah slob, yeah that was me. We bailed after I got hit. My partner and I could've gone back Saturday but at that point just chalked up the trip to bad mojo and decided to give it a go another time.
You might have run into our friends though. On Friday was it 2 girls? The next day my other friends headed up to give it another go Saturday morning but backed off when the AM weather looked hinky. They were with me when it happened Friday albeit a little further up the climb but bailed when I got smacked.
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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Jul 20, 2009 - 03:22pm PT
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hinky is a technical term
nice save - good story to relate so others wear helmuts.
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Howie
Trad climber
Calgary, Alberta
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Jul 20, 2009 - 03:27pm PT
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Fluoride, surprised the rock did not do any other damage based on the wrecked helmet.
I have the old HB style carbon fibre/dyneema from the UK.
The mould was taken over by a company called Point Five I believe after the demise of HB. Now I thing they have gone too (web site gone). Not cheap but extremely light and very strong. Right or wrong I always wear a helmet but must admit being of a dark colour (carbon fibre) it is very hot at times (J.Tree and the like). When the Point Five site was going I did see the stlye of helmet you had, still offered.
I'm off back home to the UK for a couple of weeks on Thursday and I will try and check out if these are available and at what cost.
H.
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Jingy
Social climber
Flatland, Ca
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Jul 20, 2009 - 03:29pm PT
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Flouride - Glad to hear you're ok.
That must have been one hell of a rock that hit that helmet....
Tell me that shot of you in the helmet from above was taken while on or near the end of East Butt of El Cap? LOL
And when it comes to looks.. while in the helmet you are just as beautiful as without.. anyone tells you different... they ain't-cha'friend!
Cheers
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hooblie
climber
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Jul 20, 2009 - 03:29pm PT
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i'm sorry to hear about the demise of your helmet, but i'm more than relieved to know your ok and not have to go through another trauma. i guess that thing is your burden but all of our gain so thank you!
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
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Jul 20, 2009 - 03:32pm PT
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Whoa. Happy the story has a happy ending!
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KathyS
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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Jul 20, 2009 - 03:35pm PT
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"My doc told me the radiologist had gone running round the hospital with my x-rays shouting "Look at this! Look at this! I've never seen this before!" "
High on the list of things you don't want to hear your doctor say. =:^o
Glad Flouride is none the worse for wear. May her trusty lid rest in pieces in a place of honor.
Kathy
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CM3
Trad climber
port hueneme, CA
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Jul 20, 2009 - 03:40pm PT
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i wish i had pics of my last helmet but it was a petzl ecrin and i was at snakes den in NC about 7 years ago. some other climber on top pushed off allot of small rocks but there was one about the size of a very large pancake that hit my helmet and my shoulder blade. it left me with a helmet pretty much split in two a concussion and 25 stitches on my shoulder.
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Dick_Lugar
Trad climber
Indiana (the other Mideast)
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Jul 20, 2009 - 03:51pm PT
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Just curious, how old was your helmet Fluoride?
I did a quick look-up and saw that helmets have a 10 yr. lifespan give or take depending on how often it's out in the sun. I did not know that and since my helmet is +10 yrs. old, I'm retiring it.
Glad you were wearing yours!
Edit: Anyone: Are those cracks "Typical" of a helmet absorbing a direct rock hit?
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tom woods
Gym climber
Bishop, CA
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Jul 20, 2009 - 03:54pm PT
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Close calls are pretty common on temple crag. My buddy almost lost his head the last time we did it. My rope had dislodged a bowling ball as he was peeking his head around a corner. He ducked back around as the rock hit where he was headed.
It's a bummer because those routes are pretty fun, and even better, not that far back there.
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Fluoride
Trad climber
Hollywood, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 20, 2009 - 03:55pm PT
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Dick it's pretty old. I actually got it for canyoneering, have had it before I started rock climbing so it's probably coming up on about 10 years now.
Dammit, I've been looking online to find one like this so I can replace it and I guess they no longer make 'em.
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Michael D
Big Wall climber
Napoli, Italy
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Jul 20, 2009 - 03:58pm PT
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It's good to hear your head and neck are OK.
I'm a big fan of the HB Carbon/Kevlar cover. The slight delam is from a giant slab of ice that clubbed me at speed. I literally saw stars floating around for a minute.
Pro: You can take a .22 round to the gourd
Con: Hotter than the suns upper layers
As a shoutout ;), I have 6 new in plastic Cassin Rock helmets, the solid polycarbonate type. I guide with them, and they work well. I'll sell them for 20 bucks each if there's any interest.
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Splater
climber
Grey Matter
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Jul 20, 2009 - 04:00pm PT
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you could always look at kayaking or skateboard helmets.
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caughtinside
Social climber
Davis, CA
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Jul 20, 2009 - 04:03pm PT
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Glad to hear you're ok! Lucky to walk away from that with just a headache and a busted helment.
Slob and I saw the party hike halfway up saturday morning then turn around. Wasn't the worst call in the world, we got nailed by 10 minutes of ugly hail 12 pitches up, good times.
Really a ton of loose stuff on Sun Ribbon. Slob and I did Venusian last summer, and thought it in generally was a lot more solid than Sun Ribbon. The 4th class on sun ribbon went pretty slow for us because of the picking around the loose blocks. 9 hours on route, 12 hours camp to camp.
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Fluoride
Trad climber
Hollywood, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 20, 2009 - 04:19pm PT
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caughtinside, yep that was probably them.
Congrats on sending that thing. Nice job! Drop me an e-mail and let me know all the fun details. Would uplift my spirits.
Yeah, that route has some serious choss. Even the 3rd & 4th class to the base was so loose and dirty. On the way down my partner put me on belay and lowered me through some of it cause my equilibrium was way bonked. At least the snowfield was nice and cush by that point in the day.
Good times.
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caughtinside
Social climber
Davis, CA
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Jul 20, 2009 - 04:28pm PT
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yeah, it was good times up there.
Maybe you were the person we saw passed out under that tarp in the camp by 3rd lake when we strolled through friday?
We were pretty surprised by the number of climbers camped up and around there, and then having only one other party on Temple saturday.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Jul 20, 2009 - 04:29pm PT
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Lucky you are ok! The impact looks like it was at about the limits of what the helmet could handle.
I once took a 2"X2"X 12" Chunk of metal to the head with a Joe Brown helmet back in the day (industrial setting) No damage other than a stiff neck for a day or two. Nobody makes 'em like that anymore. They also came down fairly low in the back.
Most climbing helmets don't give you any protection at all to the back of the head, and what do you reflexively do when you duck but expose the back of your head? For that reason, I've never had much faith in the lighter climbing helmets and had a bike/skateboard helmet from Big Five that was light and relatively cool that I used for years till it rotted.
I've been using a Pro helmet now. They are hot and only available in Desert Tan and Olive Drab in the large adult sizes. (the military buys a lot of them) I couldn't find a white one. that would make a huge difference in comfort.
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sbwyliedog
Trad climber
Santa Barbara, CA
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Jul 20, 2009 - 04:31pm PT
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Fluoride,
Definitely glad you had your helmet on. An alpine rescue is something I do not want to add to my resume.
Caughtinside - that could've been us you saw turn around. We stopped around 6:00am in the sandy gully not too far from scree field to watch the weather. Decided to bail... enjoyed the scenery and good conditioning all the same.
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caughtinside
Social climber
Davis, CA
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Jul 20, 2009 - 04:34pm PT
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Yeah, we were in the orange tent on Temple Beach. Saw you guys hang out halfway up that hill for a bit, then head down. You saved yourselves some ugly hail around 2pm.
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tolman_paul
Trad climber
Anchorage, AK
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Jul 20, 2009 - 04:34pm PT
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Glad to hear you're ok! I started out climbing somewhat old school, i.e. people don't wear helmuts rock climbing. Then I was tr'ing a a somewhat chossy pile and had a football sized rock come whizzing by my mellon, so that gave me an appreciation for helmuts. I don't always wear one, shame on me, but most of the time.
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couchmaster
climber
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Jul 20, 2009 - 04:41pm PT
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Damn, that worked out better for you than the helmet for sure. btw, heads up - you look great with or without that helmet.
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Fluoride
Trad climber
Hollywood, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 20, 2009 - 04:42pm PT
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caughtinside -
yes that was me under the tarp. When we got back to camp I filled a Nalgene from the cold lake and put it against my neck to make the swelling go down.
How about that weather later that day. Man, that was some cold breezing.
I had heard from my friends that some climbers had come through and were heading across the moraine field to camp while I was rehabbing under the tarp (it's actually an insanely awesome outdoor tent). Guess that was you guys. Cheers again, glad to know the route did bring happiness to someone last weekend.
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TradIsGood
Chalkless climber
the Gunks end of the country
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Jul 20, 2009 - 04:43pm PT
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Not sure why you think the modern helmets would be worse. Looks?
That crack in the helmet is a good thing! It is energy that the plastic absorbed rather than your head and neck.
To understand that, if it is not obvious, imagine that the helmet had been really hard, like 1/2 in steel, for example, with no webbing. Then all of the kinetic energy of the rock would have to have been absorbed by your spine.
It is like modern race cars which crush and shatter into bits, saving the driver.
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caughtinside
Social climber
Davis, CA
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Jul 20, 2009 - 04:44pm PT
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Yeah, Temple Beach baby!
Maybe slob will post up some photos/video of the volleyball match we had going over there. Fun and Sexy times!
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sbwyliedog
Trad climber
Santa Barbara, CA
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Jul 20, 2009 - 04:53pm PT
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Caughtinside - yeah we saw you down there. Looked like a pretty sweet spot to camp. Good job on gett'in it done!
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Scared Silly
Trad climber
UT
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Jul 20, 2009 - 05:03pm PT
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Gotta love a good helmet crater story. Here is mine after it hit the ground with my head inside. The helmet was scrambled but not my brain.
I have agree most of todays helmets just are not what I want. I got a replacement carbon fiber helmet and not 10 climbs latter it committed suicide by rolling itself off a 300 foot drop. Now I am wearing a light weight thing.
I will be at the trade show this week and will see what folks are doing.
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Fluoride
Trad climber
Hollywood, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 21, 2009 - 02:49am PT
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Holy Crap. Just how many of us here were up at Temple Crag this weekend?? Impressive.
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Jul 21, 2009 - 03:26am PT
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hey there flouride, say, i just stepped in to see how you all are doing on this post...
say--wow, you all have been busy climbing, huh... ;)
neat little post, as to where you all seemed to gravitate to, recently... ;)
i will have to backtrack here, but glad any of you that had bad near misses (if such was the case), etc, were saved by your helmets...
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Fluoride
Trad climber
Hollywood, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 21, 2009 - 03:45am PT
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You're right neebee. I guess hearing someone have a good trip up that route kinda help lift my spirits a bit so I roamed with it.
Bur SERIOUSLY like in the title...if anyone has any rockfall vs. your helmet story I do want to hear them.
PS: I did go to the ER later today and got a CAT scan just to make sure everything was okay. It is ok they say (no bleeding). Doctor said it's a probable concussion but I should be okay over time. Just feeling like crap right now.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Jul 21, 2009 - 09:02am PT
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good to hear that you survived!
take care and get well...
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Melissa
Gym climber
berkeley, ca
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Jul 21, 2009 - 12:28pm PT
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I'm glad you're OK even if your helmet is not. I got nailed by small stuff and nearly missed by a big block at TC tethered to the base of the approach chimney/talus funnel on the MG/Venusian side a couple of weeks ago. J even wore a helmet which is something I've never seen him do for free climbing.
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Forest
Trad climber
Tucson, AZ
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Jul 21, 2009 - 01:08pm PT
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I bought an HB Carbon/Kevlar (partially on Mike D's recommendation) several years ago, and it's by far the best helmet I've ever had. Despite doing most of my climbing here in Tucson, I've not had any problem with it being overly warm. And the thing is so light and comfy that once I put it on, it tends to stay on instead of being removed at every opportunity.
Of course, HB is out of business now, but the last time I looked, someone else had bought the design and was selling them in the UK.
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L
climber
The Paleozoic rift of the Caradoc drift
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Jul 21, 2009 - 04:07pm PT
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How's the neck feeling today, Beth?
Shoulders probably aren't too happy with you either, huh? Long soak in an epsom salts bath will work wonders. That, and some Topricin. Fix ya right up.
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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Jul 21, 2009 - 04:10pm PT
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scary. glad yr o.k.
thirty years, never been hit. keepin my fingers crossed. the longer i stay lucky, the worse the odds get.
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Fluoride
Trad climber
Hollywood, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 22, 2009 - 05:14pm PT
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Laura it's bad. Despite a trip to the hospital, things aren't good. Been out sick from work. Can't drive and all I can is sleep. Which is aparently a bad thing in this situation.
A friend who is an LA County Fire Captain is coming over toinght to check in on me and assess things. I'll let it up to him if I need to go back to the hospital or not.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jul 22, 2009 - 05:21pm PT
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Sorry to hear about your accident and its effects, but darn glad you were wearing the brain bucket. Thanks for posting today, to let us know you're OK. As it's now four days since the accident, and there's no improvement, you may want to get another checkup. Head injuries are no joke.
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Howie
Trad climber
Calgary, Alberta
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Jul 22, 2009 - 06:19pm PT
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Do it now. Don't wait.
Been there got the tee shirt.
H.
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L
climber
The Paleozoic rift of the Caradoc drift
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Jul 22, 2009 - 06:21pm PT
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Beth,
Concussions are bad news. The sore muscles of the rest of your body don't help...hope they gave you pain meds.
If there's anything you need, let me know. I'm in West LA--not sure where you live in Lost Angels, but am more than happy to get food for you tonight or anything else. Check your email--my number is there.
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Captain...or Skully
Social climber
way, WAY out there....(OMG)
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Jul 22, 2009 - 06:26pm PT
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We're concussion cousins.
Hey, mine improved, over time. I did have some weird after effects.
I really hope you get ta feelin' better.
(L...no pain meds for head injuries).
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Jul 22, 2009 - 06:33pm PT
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Hi Beth
My girlfriend got whacked on the head and neck by a falling 25 pound glass door which fractured on impact while she was working as a waitress in Yosemite.
That was July 3rd. We thought it might get better in a few days but instead it got worse and she is trying to find the best Physical Therapist that workman's comp will cover in the Oakhurst area, or perhaps Fresno/Mariposa.
Tough stuff cause it takes time to heal and you don't know when it will get better. WIshing you well. Let's share knowledge for healing and recovery. You can link to her via my facebook thang. She goes by Amaya Faith and has pretty eyes like yours.
Peace
karl
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L
climber
The Paleozoic rift of the Caradoc drift
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Jul 22, 2009 - 07:30pm PT
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Really Cap'n? No Vicodin? No Percodan? Not even Codeine? Holy moly...
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Captain...or Skully
Social climber
way, WAY out there....(OMG)
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Jul 22, 2009 - 07:38pm PT
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Not even aspirin.
I had to have some friends smuggle an Olde E & a joint into the hospital.
Friends are good to have.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Jul 22, 2009 - 09:24pm PT
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"But first take care of head"
First off, I am overjoyed that you are still with us Beth!
I'm looking in to one of those Petzl helmets with the twisties on the side. The only modern helmet I can wear for ten minutes without getting a headache. When your head is of a certain size there aren't many choices. I own a halfdome and there is no way I can stand it on my head for longer than the bare minimum that guiding insurance demands.... I've used it for select pitches in the black, and ice climbing belaying...
I used to have an MSR helmet, that sat well above my head like in Fluoride's photo. I never liked it, but it didn't hurt. Damn thieves!
I've had two concussions (neither climbing related) and really don't want to go through that, again...
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Fluoride
Trad climber
Hollywood, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 22, 2009 - 09:32pm PT
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Laura, it's still bad. Call me I sent it t o your e-mail. My firefigher friend got taken out on a call so if you're around, would love to talk to you and be around someone.
I need a hug. Big time. This headache isn't going away and I don't want to go to work tomorrow. Walking around my apartment is a chore.
I'm giving this until later tonight and if the pain doesn't ease up I'm checking myself into UCLA Med ctr.
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TradIsGood
Chalkless climber
the Gunks end of the country
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Jul 22, 2009 - 10:04pm PT
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Please, if you do not go tonight, call neurologist (brain surgeon) in the morning. Normally in your first visit (the one you already had), you will be there for "observation" for a couple hours and when they release you, they tell you what would warrant coming back in.
Most concussions are minor. Short term loss of memory, and short term pain. Maybe some disorientation, etc.
I had a minor one when I was a kid. I saw a kid get another minor one playing soccer. My son had two "minor" ones. But his third kept him out of ice hockey for a month. He had headaches for a couple of weeks. Probably that is all you have as well, but the downside is terrible.
After that season, he did not play again, because I would not let him play house league which was a condition for travel players. (Even though we had already participated for 10 years, I as coach and referee, and son as player.)
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Jul 22, 2009 - 10:08pm PT
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Best wishes, Beth, I hope you're connecting with good people who can help.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Jul 22, 2009 - 10:14pm PT
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Billy Maze died from this kind of thing.
Get to the hospital NOW! Beth!
not wanting to be the fear-monger, but if that is what it takes to get you to go it's worth it.
Don't screw around with this.
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dogtown
climber
Cheyenne,Wyoming
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Jul 22, 2009 - 10:26pm PT
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Wow yeah, Beth glad your alright hate helmet's but I do wear them time to time when I climb with Sims. I never been peppered with more stone from above anytime than climbing with him Colorado National Monument. One piece he pulled off a helmet wouldn’t done much good, I was as big as a 24’’ TV.
Bruce.
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SteveW
Trad climber
The state of confusion
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Jul 22, 2009 - 10:40pm PT
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Beth
You should get to the hospital. . .NOW!
You could have a subdural hematoma, which could
be literally curtains!
I hope it's just a concussion, but you need to be
under observation, seriously.
Wishin for good results.
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Zander
Trad climber
Berkeley
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Jul 22, 2009 - 10:56pm PT
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Hi Beth,
Wishing you the best,
Zander
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jul 22, 2009 - 11:24pm PT
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Laura hasn't posted since 4:30 today. (Edit: And Beth since 6:30.) Are we certain that she knows to go to Beth's, and has made whatever arrangements are needed, e.g. to get in the building/apartment? Beth may be confused about what's going on, so if there's any way to cross check, that would help.
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Captain...or Skully
Social climber
way, WAY out there....(OMG)
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Jul 22, 2009 - 11:52pm PT
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Relax, & breathe....Folks are on the case, man.
Fluoride's a tough chick, dig it?
I know it's true.
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Fluoride
Trad climber
Hollywood, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 23, 2009 - 12:02am PT
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The amazng "L" as in Laura was over here with me helping me ice up, call me in sick to work (which they were incredulous about!!) and just being an overall amazing human being.
I love you girl. You're an amazing person Laura.
And love you too Jaybro. Sorry my phone died.
I still feel like Hell. Going to go to sleep. At this point it probably won't kill me.
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Captain...or Skully
Social climber
way, WAY out there....(OMG)
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Jul 23, 2009 - 12:03am PT
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It helped me.
Tough is good.
L.....get someone to come check on ya, after a while.....
Can't hurt.
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Daphne
Trad climber
Mill Valley, CA
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Jul 23, 2009 - 12:10am PT
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Sending you healing vibes, Beth. Please post up when you wake up.
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Fluoride
Trad climber
Hollywood, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 23, 2009 - 12:13am PT
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I went to Cedars on Monday and got a CAT scan. No breakage or bleeding. Just a very bad concussion.
All in good time. Just need to heal now.
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GLee
climber
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Jul 23, 2009 - 12:34am PT
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'I still feel like hell. Going to go to sleep. At this point it probably won't kill me.'
Beth, this is not something to see about in the morning. As someone ,who as a medical technologist, have had doctors tell me how fast changes can turn for the worse with a head injury.
And as a patient with a aneurysm leak, I didn't loose consciousness initially, but did after 5 days because of unrelieved pressure, ending up in ICU before I was able to have the surgery.
My two cents from Montana is for you, Beth, or Laura, if you are still there, to call the UCLA emergency room for a neurological consult NOW. Don't wait. Let them decide about when to come in. This is not something to be leaving until morning.
CALL NOW TO THE ER/NEUROLOGY, TONIGHT, DON'T WAIT TILL TOMORROW
Greg in Missoula
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GLee
climber
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Jul 23, 2009 - 12:51am PT
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Someone in LA needs to call Beth and/or Laura now to follow thru now, IMHO. It's 9:48 pm in LA.
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Jul 23, 2009 - 12:59am PT
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Greg, with your aneurysm leak, did you have a CAT scan when you were first injured? Beth has had one already which showed no damage. Just wondering, because I have had two serious concussions from playing rugby and with one the headaches lasted almost 2 weeks.
From what I have read, its not the headache itself, but the increase or rapid change in symptoms that is the sign you need to go to a doctor.
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GLee
climber
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Jul 23, 2009 - 01:39am PT
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John,
This was in 1982, and yes I did have a CAT scan once I arrived in Anchorage. Mine was diagnosed in the hospital that I worked at 400 miles west of Anchorage the old fashion way: spinal tap. My guess is that the CAT scan showed a leak, but I don't know. I only play a doctor on TV. They also did inject dye thru my carotids with xray film being exposed to visualize to see if there was more than one aneurysm leaking.
But my concern is that I'm willing to be told by an ER Doctor or Neurologist now that I don't have anything to worry about after a consult (by phone or in person at the hospital), than to wait until tomorrow to do the consult.
This happened Friday, what is happening now doesn't sound good (sleepyness and I feel like hell), and that all of us might feel better if a Taco-ite (who is also a doctor) made comment to Beth/Laura tonight about whether or not Beth should wait til tomorrow, or if it would be better to be sleeping at the hospital tonight for a consult tomorrow.
I'd rather make a foolish trip to the hospital, and be told that I was foolish to come in tonight, than to sleep at home tonight and wait for the morn.
I'd call Beth now. I, as well as all of us, am just concerned.
Crock
Laura may be a doctor, or nurse, and is a concerned friend obviously. But as is said on Public Service ads on TV, time lost between the home and hospital care with a brain injury is brain lost ,at best. But you can't do much at home with a sharp Swiss Army knife, in this case. I'm just concerned.
Greg
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SteveW
Trad climber
The state of confusion
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Jul 23, 2009 - 10:42am PT
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Bump for L and Beth. . .
please update us on your condition, we're all thinking
about you!
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Fluoride
Trad climber
Hollywood, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 23, 2009 - 10:56am PT
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It's almost 8am. A County Fire Captain friend just called to check in and woke me up. Head hurts like f*ck, but I'm okay
I'm drinking lots of water and am so happy to see a marine layer has moved in.
Advil isn't working.
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rhyang
climber
SJC
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Jul 23, 2009 - 11:14am PT
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Thinking positive thoughts .. hope you are feeling better soon !
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Howie
Trad climber
Calgary, Alberta
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Jul 23, 2009 - 11:18am PT
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Do you feel any improvement in yourself?
If not I think you should visit a hospital.
This is reminding me of my sort of same incident. Everything turned out OK but as it was a looooonnnng time ago there was not the equipment availble then as there is now to determine if things are OK on speedy basis.
Sorry but I'm still pushing for you to go see someone.
Hope you are OK. Thoughts.
H.
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Largo
Sport climber
Venice, Ca
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Jul 23, 2009 - 12:08pm PT
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Looks like you were saved to me. Can I get a witness?
JL
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Daphne
Trad climber
Mill Valley, CA
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Jul 23, 2009 - 12:30pm PT
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Can you improvise an ice bag? I like to put the ice bag on the injury and a heating pad somewhere else-- a soothing combination. Sorry you are hurting- this so totally sucks but I am glad you are posting and here with us.
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nita
climber
chica from chico, I don't claim to be a daisy
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Jul 23, 2009 - 12:43pm PT
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Fluoride..Ouch, I just checked back on this thread, i didn't realize you were injured.
I hope you feel better Soon, glad you are still with us.
Three cheers for.. L and Fire Captian friend.
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Fluoride
Trad climber
Hollywood, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 23, 2009 - 01:04pm PT
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L is my heroine.
Seriously, she's the best
She just called to check in on me. I was asleep and now I'm awake and drinking a glass of Emergen-C on her orders.
Then I'm going back to sleep.
And Cosmic thanks for the call this morning. You're a good man.
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L
climber
The Paleozoic rift of the Caradoc drift
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Jul 23, 2009 - 01:30pm PT
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Just checked in on Beth. That woman is amazing!
When she told me the ordeal she had to go through to even get off the mountain after getting clocked by that rock, I've got to tell you, I'm not sure if I'm even worthy to put the ice-pack on her brow now. ;-)
In all seriousness, folks, she's doing much, much better. I've got a bit of experience with concussions and injuries of her nature--I would never have left her alone last night had there been the least indication she wasn't going to be OK. The good night's sleep did her a world of good, and the natural healing process of the body--albeit somewhat painful--is well underway in her case.
Beth said "feeling the love" from the Taco has made her feel incredibly cared for, and gifted to have such wonderful friends. Feelings like that are what make recovery happen so much more quickly--so keep those thoughts and prayers flowing for her, would you?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Last night we discussed gold-plating the HB helmet that saved her life. I liked that idea.
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SteveW
Trad climber
The state of confusion
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Jul 23, 2009 - 01:48pm PT
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Flouride, glad you're doing better. You still might want
to see a doc. . . please?
L We know you're the best! And thanks for taking
care of Beth!!!!!
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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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Jul 23, 2009 - 01:58pm PT
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Get feeling better! I climbed at Beacon Rock yesterday with a helmet on, did a slew of pitches. Then end of day setting at the base of Young Warriors, I took my helmet off and kicked back. About 2 minutes later, me and my partner hear a incoming round, its a I-phone coming down from about 200 feet up. Impacts about 2 feet from me and then continues down the hill. Son of a....the lady was very upset over the loss of her phone. Me, I was happy to still have my head intact.
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CynthiaL
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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Jul 23, 2009 - 02:37pm PT
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Jeez, Beth, how scary! I am so glad to hear you're on the upswing, and that Laura was there to check on you and help you along.
Sending prayers for a speedy recovery!
Cyn
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murcy
climber
San Fran Cisco
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Jul 23, 2009 - 03:19pm PT
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Wow, nasty tale, and sounds like a nasty concussion. My wife recently had a head-banging fall, and is still healing up a month later, and the expectation is that some symptoms (headache, memory and concentration problems, fatigue) can often last as long as three months (longer being rare but not unheard of). They had her in the ICU for a while checking for signs of hematoma (internal bleeding). Her docs said Tylenol is fine, but not to use aspirin, Ibuprofen or any other anti-inflammatory. Be careful--you don't want to bang your head again soon; and best wishes!
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Jul 23, 2009 - 03:55pm PT
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"Death by Iphone".
Holy crap, that would be a first......"Man killed by Iphone"....
Coincidentally, I've climbed 37 years and haven't taken any rock of substance...ever. Till this weekend. Years ago we'd had a kid who was trying to pass the knot on rappel in the twilight drop some gear that landed right in between my partner and I on dinner ledge on the South Face of the column as we were already in our sleeping bags. Maybe a helmet on the testicles was needed there. We didn't have helmets then. I often do not even wear a helmet now, even though I own 5 now.
Saturday I was out on a new line, rapping in from the top in an obvious gully to examine the cliff in the center of Cathedral Formation. For this trip on new ground where no human has ever been, I selected what I feel is my best helmet, a Petzl Elios, and it stayed on my head all day until I was on the ground and in the cave around the corner totally protected below. Here's a picture.
I went first and kicked off all the obvious looking loose stuff. Generally fist to head sized knobs and boulders. Then I ducked out of the way outside of the gully into a perfectly hidden spot where a perfect rap station was (the tree in the pic) as partner 2 then partner 3 came down. I came out after they were all down and safe on the new rap point I'd just established. I was still outside of the gully itself and off to the side at that point. We left the rope fixed above and started preparing the 2nd rap point with some more tying off the next rope etc etc (with 2 more raps to go to kiss ground again)
We're all totally focused out and down paying attention to what we were about when we hear a bamm from up above...we all tensed and braced in the microsecond that it took for this fist sized knob to come flying off and down -MISSED my best helmet and whacks me in the back of my shoulder blade with enough noise that the other 2 dudes made sympathetic "ouch" noises and facial winces. Then we watched it disappear down the cliff and went back to work. Forgot about it till last night I'm in the bathroom shirt off (Sunday) and my wife, while touching it exclaims, "WHAT IN THE HECK IS THIS?" Brought back the memory. Evidently I'll be marked for a while. LOL!
ps, glad your feeling better and L, good job and bless you on watching over her.
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L
climber
The Paleozoic rift of the Caradoc drift
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Jul 23, 2009 - 05:28pm PT
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Beth,
The good people at your office insisted you stay home tomorrow and continue to recover from this near-death experience. I just spoke to them, and must admit I was very impressed with their compassion and understanding.
Whoever said "televison people" are hard-hearted was simply wrong. ;-)
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Jul 23, 2009 - 06:42pm PT
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Get better, Beth!
Way to step in L!
When I had a minor conc after a rollover, I didn't feel, 'right' for over a week.
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Dr.Sprock
Boulder climber
Sprocketville
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Jul 23, 2009 - 08:57pm PT
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Beth will be ok, i just spoke with jeeezus.
kaykers have helmets with face guards, they look kind of corny, but if you have ever smashed a rock with your face wile upside down in a river, they seem to make sense.
might look corny for climbing too.
but could be useful in weird situations, like a whipper into the wall, or while climbing a notorious bowling ally, or while pulling on cams or swinging a hammer while 2000 feet up.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
Monrovia, CA
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Jul 23, 2009 - 09:06pm PT
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Fluoride,
Best wishes. It sounds like the worst is behind you.
I broke a hard-shell Bell bike helmet once so I'm feeling
your pain. The mind and body is amazingly resilient.
In my case I didn't have much to lose 'upstairs' but
you obviously do so I am happy the Taco vibes are doing
their thing.
All the best,
Reilly
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Jul 24, 2009 - 12:42am PT
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Next time, just say no to Temple Crag - the biggest pile of overhyped choss in the Sierra.
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Captain...or Skully
Social climber
way, WAY out there....(OMG)
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Jul 24, 2009 - 12:47am PT
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Remember, Fluoride.
Much love & healing vibes are comin' from Idaho(as well as the Range of Light)....Groove.
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Fluoride
Trad climber
Hollywood, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 24, 2009 - 03:58am PT
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JLP I just woke up from a very long sleep and I must say at this point I completely agree.
Then again, I'm not sure about much right now.
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Fluoride
Trad climber
Hollywood, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 24, 2009 - 04:12am PT
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Thanks skully.
Slept away the day for the most part. Now it's 1am and I'm now awake and starving. Having a Tombstone pizza cause I've been forgetting to eat. Out from work again tomorrow, this week was a lost cause.
Cheers bro. Thanks for the kind words.
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reddirt
climber
Elevation 285 ft
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Jul 24, 2009 - 07:43am PT
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wow!
note to self... get replacement parts for big ole ecrin.
Thx for posting, incl updates. Glad you're ok.
If there's gonna be further imaging, I'd consider asking about MRI's (no radiation) instead of CT's.
Awake & starving sounds like a good thing : )
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Jul 24, 2009 - 09:49am PT
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It was not a complete loss.
Recharging, rebuilding the Fluoride that we love is a very positive thing!
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Russ Walling
Gym climber
Poofter's Froth, Wyoming
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Jul 24, 2009 - 12:11pm PT
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Surveys from top neurologists and brain guys say you will be dingy for a while, but.... and this is a big one..... it has also been proven that you can scrub out the damaged and sluggish cells with Pale Ale. Rehab should start immediately for the rosiest outcome.
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Melissa
Gym climber
berkeley, ca
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Jul 24, 2009 - 01:08pm PT
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Re: the OP request for helmet options:
I just saw (and swiped) this from vegastradguy's OR show review on rc.com:
http://www.rockclimbing.com/Articles/Gear_and_Reviews/Outdoor_Retailer_Summer_09_Day_2_3_1052.html
It's a ponytail friendly version of the Elios. I have the ponytail unfriendly version and have been happy this far, although I haven't put it to the big test. And I can relate to the need to recoif before putting the bucket on.
But I'm curious if having ponytail options reduces safety where back of the head impact is concerned. Barring rockfall, the back of the head seems like the most likely wacking zone.
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Dr.Sprock
Boulder climber
Sprocketville
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Jul 24, 2009 - 01:48pm PT
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now would be a good time to use lighter fluid on those tuff, carpet stains.
you won't know the difference.
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Fluoride
Trad climber
Hollywood, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 24, 2009 - 01:55pm PT
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Thanks Melissa.
Yeah, the back of the helmet did take a good crack.
I just want that kind of helmet back. It had layers of carbonite throughout that absorbed so much impact. That totally saved me.
I can't find those anymore. The helmets of today, they would not have absorbed that rockfall.
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Russ Walling
Gym climber
Poofter's Froth, Wyoming
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Jul 24, 2009 - 01:58pm PT
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The helmets of today, they would not have absorbed that rockfall.
Do you have a source for that ;)
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hooblie
climber
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Jul 24, 2009 - 02:17pm PT
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i never made much use of it, but i picked up a surplus fireman's helmet and hauled it around for ice climbing on the supposition that the backside brim was still there for you to shield the cervical spine while in duck and cover mode. also the drip line was a plus, made a great foul weather cover. kind of ruled out sporting the hood of the parka (on the outside at least) but the earflaps were cozy, and the thing just seemed less bumbly than some. acknowledge a weight penalty though, and not for the harding slot or rock climbing i guess.
thoughts of concern going out to you, not one to jump the gun and actually worry. doesn't sound like you're outside the normal course these things take, but here's hoping the suffering subsides
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paganmonkeyboy
climber
mars...it's near nevada...
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Jul 24, 2009 - 02:33pm PT
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damn, flouride...hope you are feeling better, and soon !
and yeah - i bought someone one of those helmets once. they are the sh#t - the ecrin rocs come close i think but the hb always seemed burlier to me...
i was gonna suggest the fire helmet too...
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Fluoride
Trad climber
Hollywood, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 24, 2009 - 03:41pm PT
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This is Bianca. She's my trusty associate and good friend and my mini-me and all that is good in my world.
She came by and spent the morning with me and here with and brought me watermelon. It tasted good. Oh this pic is from 12/07. Hell, we look exactly the same still. , Just the most easily found photo of us have together.
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Mike Bolte
Trad climber
Planet Earth
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Jul 24, 2009 - 03:51pm PT
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So, F. how are you feeling today? This experience has been no fun. The little silver lining is you (maybe re-) discovered how many good friends you have.
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Fluoride
Trad climber
Hollywood, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 24, 2009 - 05:59pm PT
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Bianca coming by with watermelon and conversation did a world of good.
Got a tombstone pizza in the oven now. Still feel like Hell but less hell than before.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jul 24, 2009 - 06:02pm PT
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I'm not sure that I entirely appreciate the symbolism of a "tombstone" pizza at the moment, but I take it that they're good to eat. :-)
Get well soon, and hope to see you at the FaceLift!!!111
Does your boss have a "redheads only" policy?
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Fluoride
Trad climber
Hollywood, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 24, 2009 - 08:23pm PT
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No actually kind of a blonds policy. Bee and I are the weak links in the chain. Everyone else is blond.
Pizza's in the oven. Tombstone is simple and good. Just has a lurid name.
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Jul 25, 2009 - 02:02am PT
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hey there say, flouride... oh my... i HAD seen this and even posted here, but, i NEVER got to do the back-track here, and i had gone on thinking this was a very OLD longgone accident....
hooblie send me back over... seems this was all NEW... oh my...
say, very glad you checked out the neck, flouride... you never know.... (bloodclots, etc) ...
once again, very glad you are well...
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Jul 25, 2009 - 03:40am PT
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Nice action shot!
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Jul 25, 2009 - 04:20am PT
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hey there say... wow, still marveling and happy that flouride got through all this...
thanksf or sharing the picture... :)
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Fluoride
Trad climber
Hollywood, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 25, 2009 - 09:21pm PT
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cool neeb, thanks.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jul 26, 2009 - 07:05pm PT
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I wonder how our friend's feeling today.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Jul 26, 2009 - 10:17pm PT
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Her message box is full.
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Jul 26, 2009 - 11:05pm PT
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"Her message box is full."
Well of course. After posting that photo of her in the helmet, every hard hat dude in the country is emailing her for a date. :-)
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Captain...or Skully
Social climber
way, WAY out there....(OMG)
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Jul 26, 2009 - 11:38pm PT
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I would.
Fluoride Rocks.
And apparently, Rocks Rock Fluoride.
Of course.
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L
climber
Somewhere with big rocks and tall trees...
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Jul 28, 2009 - 07:39pm PT
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Whazzup Beth-o-baby?
Thought about you all weekend...update requested.
XOXO
Dr. Laura
PS. BF paying up big-time or what????
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msiddens
Trad climber
Mountain View, CA
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Jul 28, 2009 - 11:02pm PT
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Way to go Flouride and hats/helmets off to showing Temple who the boss is! Glad you are healthy.
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Bart Fay
Social climber
Redlands, CA
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Jul 29, 2009 - 06:37pm PT
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Flouride-
I've got a squeaky clean model of your old, white HB helmet out here in Redlands.
Its barely seen the light of day. I got it AFTER an El Cap aid route.
Let me know if'n your interested.
Fair Market Value... Wife does not abide redhead biscuit discounts.
Oh, and hope you feel better.
-Bart
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Blitzo
Social climber
Earth
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Jul 29, 2009 - 06:40pm PT
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I'm so glad your noggin is still in tact!
We still have many adventures to look forward to in the future!
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Mark Vallance
Trad climber
England
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Jul 30, 2009 - 12:05pm PT
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A new concept in climbing helmets.
My old company, Wild Country, now makes a two part helmet called the Alpine Shield. The inner is a lightweight foam helmet which can be used by itself and is designed for rock climbing to protect against minor knocks. The outer polycarbonate 'shield' is attached with three screws in a matter of moments and is rugged and very strong.
Glad you survived the brick!
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Jul 30, 2009 - 01:29pm PT
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Hola Mark! Great company and welcome to the Taco. The 360 looks very good as well.
http://www.wildcountry.co.uk/Products/2009Helmets1/360HelmetTechInfo/
They got yer picter on the website here Flouride!
Speaking for myself, I just upgraded to a new $14 Camp helmet when my kid scored my Edelrid and so I am currently building a 3' x 3' plywood structure designed to be clipped to a single bolt to protect me from rocks while belaying. It weights @ 10 lbs, so multipitch routes will be problematical.
Maybe those things aren't all connected. I probably need helmets for my ropes. The plywood will protect any rope on the ground by my belayers feet as it is feeding out.
This bottom one was recently stolen, along with a Black Diamond speed bag it was inside of if anyone happens to see it in the Pac. NW. It had been retired and was given to me, and I was using it exclusively for cleaning projects.
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L
climber
Somewhere with big rocks and tall trees...
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Jul 30, 2009 - 02:10pm PT
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Hey Bart,
Why don't you email Flouride directly if you haven't already--doesn't look like she's checked in on this thread and I KNOW she'd love to get that helmet.
Thanks man.
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dpotter05
Sport climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Jul 31, 2009 - 07:53pm PT
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Update! How is Flouride?
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Madbolter
Big Wall climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Here's pics of the Petzl (PUTZL) Meteor helmet I was wearing while struck in the temple by a piton hammer when my partner fell from 30' above me and hit me on his way past.
Story is detailed here: http://bigwall.com/tendaytr.html
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Melissa
Gym climber
berkeley, ca
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Maybe true if folks going places where rockfalls are more likely to happen (alpine, walls) wear helmets.
Many (most?) people taking headshots w/o them are prolly not available for comment either.
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