Whitehorse Ledge

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Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Topic Author's Original Post - Jul 18, 2009 - 05:56pm PT

Best of the White Mountain cliffs? Some days I think so.

4th pitch of Wavelength (5.8):

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Topic Author's Reply - Jul 18, 2009 - 05:57pm PT

Photo by Cowpoke, 4th pitch of Children's Crusade (5.11a):

climber

Right place, wrong century

Jul 18, 2009 - 09:20pm PT

Aaahhhhh... you're teasing us, aren't you, Chiloe? You're giving us a tiny hors d'œuvre here, and a one-shot hors d'œuvre there...

When are we getting the whole enchilada TR? That's what I want to know.

MH2

climber

Jul 19, 2009 - 01:08am PT

Looks good, though the routes named gave me a sense of disorientation since neither appears in my most recent guide (Cote, '72), but I did find reassurance that, "Relatively little time has passed (approximately 10,000 years) since the close of the Pleistocene Epoch..."

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Topic Author's Reply - Jul 19, 2009 - 08:48pm PT

When are we getting the whole enchilada TR? That's what I want to know.

L is right, there was going to be a TR in here somewhere. But before I got 'round to that,
we had to spend another day in the hills.

MH2:
Looks good, though the routes named gave me a sense of disorientation since neither
appears in my most recent guide (Cote, '72)

Three-star routes both, vintage 1980. If you come back, you'll have to check 'em out.

Wavelength (5.8) is just about the funnest of the casual routes on the Whitehorse slabs.
Below, slightly runout 7-ish slabbing on the 2nd and 3rd pitch.

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Topic Author's Reply - Jul 19, 2009 - 09:07pm PT

But Children's Crusade, that was going to be the TR. Cowpoke and I set out to climb that
from base to summit (not the usual way) last Friday.

Ed Webster's guidebook calls Children's Crusade "A tremendous adventure."

"The route ascends the faint, vertical dike up the center of the steep wall to the left of the
Ethereal Crack buttress. The Direct Finish to Children's Crusade breaks through the
final overhangs up a vertical dihedral in an outlandish position."

Here's the view from the base. The faint vertical dike shoots upwards from the right edge
of that overlap near the center of the picture. The outlandish position of the 4th pitch
occurs in those overhangs high above.

Tarbuster

climber

right here, right now

Jul 19, 2009 - 11:11pm PT

You guys did the fourth pitch of Children's Crusade?
(You's dirty Dawgs, ...you[s])
And you didn't call me first ???

I'm only like $700 away.....

MH2

climber

Jul 20, 2009 - 12:57am PT

Looks better than good.

Also, I am a dike aficionado.

Maybe during a visit to the relatives back East

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Topic Author's Reply - Jul 20, 2009 - 09:54am PT

You guys did the fourth pitch of Children's Crusade?
(You's dirty Dawgs, ...you[s])
And you didn't call me first ???

I followed John Bouchard up that pitch once, back in 1986, and hadn't returned to it since.

This weekend, I finally had the energy to go up there again. Our conversation in the car went
like this:

"What are we gonna climb?"

"I've got this great plan. We're climbing Children's Crusade Direct. You're leading the crux!"

"Great!"

Cowpoke has a positive attitude towards life. Also, he hadn't been up the fourth pitch, and
for some reason seemed more concerned about the first, which I quickly said that I'd lead.

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Topic Author's Reply - Jul 20, 2009 - 10:17am PT

Webster calls the first pitch "memorable 5.9." Talk to anyone who has led it, and they'll mention
The Mantle -- which comes on steep rock unnervingly high above your pro. That's one of three crux
sections on the pitch. Memorable indeed.

Here's Jim Dunn in EBs, 1980. You climb the first 30 feet with no pro. Once he reaches a fixed
pin he'll move right and up around the right edge of the small roof, to start the faint dike.

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Topic Author's Reply - Jul 20, 2009 - 10:22am PT

Obviously Tarbuster, in 2007. The Mantle comes just before the second bolt in this picture. Tarbuster
is now above the third bolt, and confronting the third crux. The ominous black rock up and left from
the climber forms the Direct Finish, still two pitches higher.

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Topic Author's Reply - Jul 20, 2009 - 10:28am PT

Another STer, Snakefoot, sandbagged into leading the same pitch on his visit to Whitehorse.

I think I've got a rogues gallery of ST denizens climbing various Whitehorse routes.

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Topic Author's Reply - Jul 20, 2009 - 10:31am PT

But, getting back to this weekend, here is Cowpoke, glad to have all that "memorable 5.9" below him.

tradchick

Trad climber

White Mountains

Jul 20, 2009 - 11:18am PT

Nice job getting that 4th pitch done!!

Childrens Crusade is one of my favorites on Whitehorse. I tried to follow the Direct Finish several years ago, as a new climber with about 3 months of experience. I couldn't pull thru those overlaps, so the leader had to clean the route on his way down. It'd be fun to try it now.

cowpoke

climber

Jul 20, 2009 - 01:25pm PT

wait, wait: I wanna picture of me leading that 1st pitch, too.

First did the usual crusade (1st two pitches only) about 9 years ago...up and down climbed that mantle move 4 or 5 times until the sun went behind some clouds and, whew, felt like I barely stuck it.

Don't know if you can tell, but I'm actually trying to fiddle in some gear in that 5.7 "approach" to the climbing...needless to say, didn't work = darn!

So, yeah, I was delighted when Larry said he would lead it!

climber

The Paleozoic rift of the Caradoc drift

Jul 20, 2009 - 02:44pm PT

"Don't know if you can tell, but I'm actually trying to fiddle in some gear in that 5.7 "approach" to the climbing..."

LOL Cowpoke--I've felt like that on more "approaches" than I care to remember. Those lines are beautiful...and I'm sure Chiloe's excellent photography makes them look much more foot-friendly than they actually are.

Nice pix, you two.

bluering

Trad climber

Santa Clara, Ca.

Jul 20, 2009 - 03:39pm PT

some sweet looking routes.

Seems like a long ways to get that first bolt! I can see why you'd try to get some gear in.

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Topic Author's Reply - Jul 20, 2009 - 06:46pm PT

Seems like a long ways to get that first bolt!

I always think so. It's not hard, 5.7-ish, but diagonal and off-balance, definitely a walk through
the no-falling zone.

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Topic Author's Reply - Jul 20, 2009 - 06:50pm PT

Pitch 2 has good rock and the same grade as the first, 5.9, but only one crux and not nearly so
"memorable." I think only a fraction of the parties climbing P1 continue through P2 as well.

Eric (Cowpoke) led through nicely, past the reachy overlap crux and wandering tradlands above.

snakefoot

climber

cali

Jul 20, 2009 - 11:15pm PT

bump for the whites, solid granite, reminded me of home.

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Topic Author's Reply - Jul 21, 2009 - 10:24am PT

Don't try this at home, kids!
Our team demonstrates the dangers of self-portrait photography, at the p2 belay.

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Topic Author's Reply - Jul 21, 2009 - 10:30am PT

Each pitch of Children's Crusade sees less traffic than the one below. Only a fraction of
teams climbing the stellar first pitch go on to do the second, and so forth.

Pitch 3 is the easiest on the route, but it filters out parties too. The MountainProject
description might be one reason:

"From the belay climb up and left with crack protection to a blank slab, make mandatory,
unprotected, slab moves to a two bolt anchor on the headwall 5.8."

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Topic Author's Reply - Jul 21, 2009 - 10:32am PT

Zander

Trad climber

Berkeley

Jul 21, 2009 - 10:40am PT

Oooo, nice thread. Thanks.
Keep those pics coming!
Zander

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Topic Author's Reply - Jul 21, 2009 - 10:42am PT

From the end of p3, the crux headwall looms above. It starts up the left-facing corners
near the center of this picture.

Three seemed like the right number.

james Colborn

Trad climber

Truckee, Ca

Jul 21, 2009 - 02:46pm PT

Chiloe, always sportin the coolest of photos, and climbing the cleanest of granite.

Dang... I have not been in NH for sometime. My family had a house in Madison BITD. I blame NH for my mountain lifestyle addiction. LIVE FREE IN THE MOUNTAINS OR DIE!

I went back maybe 10 yrs ago and climbed for a week. Awesome granite. Got any shots of Reccompense, or howbout Sreamin Yellow Zonkers. Those were some highlights of my visit.

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Topic Author's Reply - Jul 21, 2009 - 04:59pm PT

James, I don't have any shots of Screaming Yellow Zonkers.
Cowpoke, Tarbuster and I took a photogenic jaunt up Recombeast a couple of years back:

meclimber

Trad climber

Dover, NH

Jul 21, 2009 - 05:17pm PT

I love NH rock!

cowpoke

climber

Jul 22, 2009 - 08:07am PT

Best of the White Mountain cliffs?

I've been thinking about this for the last few days. To force the issue, I tried answering a similar question: if I could only climb at one crag in the Whites for the rest of my life, then which would I choose? Still, no answer. I sure am glad I can keep the whole lot of 'em.

survival

Big Wall climber

A Token of My Extreme

Jul 22, 2009 - 08:39am PT

Beautiful pictures gang!

Sadly, my only climbing up there was with an old friend at Rumney on a blast family trip through part of that beautiful state.

tradchick

Trad climber

White Mountains

Jul 22, 2009 - 09:23am PT

Cowpoke: Cool shot of Whitehorse!

Yeah tough question and Whitehorse does have all sorts of climbing on great rock. Some unique situations too, like the move onto Loose Lips.

Cannon is my other favorite because of the alpine feel and being in Franconia notch.

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Topic Author's Reply - Jul 22, 2009 - 09:26am PT

Cowpoke is probably wondering if I'll ever get to the good part.

The 4th pitch of Children's Crusade is the business, with a different character than the rest.

Eric racked the gear and energetically took off. The initial thin cracks look more straightforward
than they are. He led efficiently, but coming second I felt continually off-balance, pulling a
sequence of short laybacks past protection that all sounded hollow.

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Topic Author's Reply - Jul 22, 2009 - 09:32am PT

About halfway up he encountered a sharp-edged roof that seemed to defy graceful solution.
Eric thrutched past it one way, I thrashed up another. The exposure here gets exciting,
and the roof's edge made me nervous.

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Topic Author's Reply - Jul 22, 2009 - 09:40am PT

Above that roof you get a rest, then the 5.11 crux: sketchy stemming up the overhanging,
crackless corner, followed by a long reach to the arete where holds get larger but not large,
and you're starting to get tired. Eric almost got it on sight. But he slipped near the last
move and fell, ripping out one of those tiny "for aid use only" C3's. A few yards lower he
was caught by a knifeblade that Ed Webster might have welded into that seam 29 years ago.

Some climbers on a route below us, watching the show, yelled up "Is it all bolts up there?"
Eric laughed.

After resting on a stance, he reclimbed to his high point, fiddled in a ball-nut, and solved
the final moves to a belay at the crest of the wall.

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Topic Author's Reply - Jul 22, 2009 - 09:53am PT

I was impressed watching his lead, becoming even moreso as I scratched past the overhang
and up the corner with an overhead belay. I could barely hang on to clean gear, and lunged
desperately to slap the arete.

It felt mighty good pulling over the crest, to say "I couldn't have led that!"

survival

Big Wall climber

A Token of My Extreme

Jul 22, 2009 - 10:05am PT

WooHoo!!

Don't worry Eric, I've had MANY almost got it on the first try cruxs' myself! Many many many.........

Tarbuster

climber

right here, right now

Jul 22, 2009 - 10:24am PT

Beautiful, photogenic rock on that fourth pitch!
Good job Eric & Chiloe !!!

(Is it all bolts up there?... heh,heh)

cowpoke

climber

Jul 22, 2009 - 10:32am PT

Cool shot of Whitehorse!

Thanks, tradchick! It's tough to get a shot in which you can't see the hotel and homes (in fact, you can see a roof peaking through on that pic).

Don't worry Eric, I've had MANY almost got it on the first try cruxs' myself! Many many many.........

We were having so much fun (and the neural juices were flowing after that fall) that I wasn't too disappointed, at least in the moment. But, now, I gotta go all the way back up there for the redpoint and the first pitch gives me fits.

Cowpoke is probably wondering if I'll ever get to the good part.

No doubt, your dramatic posting style had me wondering whether I was going to get the onsight...but, no. Shoot!

But, the story doesn't end there, you tease.

cowpoke

climber

Jul 22, 2009 - 10:44am PT

Beautiful, photogenic rock on that fourth pitch!

Roy, I gotta go back up there...if you'd lead that first pitch (again), it'd be big help!

After asking about the bolts, our onlookers gave a nice encouraging hoot and holler when I pulled through the lip and gasped with relief.

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Topic Author's Reply - Jul 22, 2009 - 11:08am PT

After asking about the bolts, our onlookers gave a nice encouraging hoot and holler when
I pulled through the lip and gasped with relief.

Our onlookers also deserve props for not cursing us when a stray quickdraw sailed past them
at high speed. At the base they retrieved it, and left the draw on a windshield wiper of my car.

The biners from that draw I've marked with white tape, they are dog-leash biners now!

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Topic Author's Reply - Jul 22, 2009 - 11:14am PT

For the benefit of non-easterners ... Children's Crusade climbs the bright white slab (first
3 pitches) to the dark headwall (4th pitch) towards the left side of Cowpoke's nice photo below.

You might notice there's still more sunlit slab above the headwall ... the 5th pitch, we're
getting to that.

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Topic Author's Reply - Jul 22, 2009 - 01:32pm PT

In keeping with the route's layer-cake popularity, NEclimbing.com mentions only the
first 3 pitches. Jerry Handren's guidebook goes to 4. MountainProject.com just
describes the first 4, then adds that "most people rap from here but there is another
10b slab pitch above."

Only Ed Webster, who worked for this route, describes all 5 pitches. He gives the 5th
lead a grade of 10c.

In Adventure Mode, Eric and I weren't gonna rap off. And after Eric's star turn, I felt a
need to kick in something more.

Looking up at an SMC hanger spinning freely on a 1/4" bolt, with mossy slabs and
overlaps above, we guessed this did not see much traffic.

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Topic Author's Reply - Jul 22, 2009 - 01:41pm PT

The crux comes right away on pitch 5, and it's thin. We thought Webster's 10c was fair.

Higher, the climbing gets easier and "wanders" as Ed says. I passed a broken-off rusty
bugaboo that I'd happily have clipped if it still had its head.

While it got easier the climbing also got more "alpine," in this case meaning I searched
for patches of clean rock to step on, while finding my way through a minefield of wet
streaks and moss.

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Topic Author's Reply - Jul 22, 2009 - 01:50pm PT

Near the top, moss got more plentiful. Making easy but careful moves 40' above gear, I
reached a point (familiar to Northeastern climbers) where rock slabs transitioned to
steep dirt.

A tiny blueberry bush hung down in my face there. Without thinking I grabbed a berry
and ate it, just to put off the last couple of moves.

As I brought Eric up and we bushwhacked to the summit, we saw abundant signs that
bears had been enjoying these blueberries as well.

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Topic Author's Reply - Jul 22, 2009 - 01:52pm PT

A gentle rain was starting to fall. Soon it would pour.

tradchick

Trad climber

White Mountains

Jul 22, 2009 - 02:34pm PT

Great TR! Thanks for taking the time to post up.

climber

The Paleozoic rift of the Caradoc drift

Jul 22, 2009 - 04:46pm PT

Stellar TR, Chiloe & Cowpoke!

One of the best Whole Enchilada TR's I've ever sweated through. (My palms were moist the entire time--I kid you not, especially when Eric took his whipper and pulled gear.)

Those are some incredible photos, too...and anything that makes Chiloe nervous to climb, I'm pretty sure I'm happy to simply be a spectator on.

Thanks you two...beautifully done. (Loved the end photo.)

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Topic Author's Reply - Jul 22, 2009 - 05:01pm PT

Thanks, folks! Someone else's turn now, there must be other Whitehorse stories.

(Loved the end photo.)

Anyone recognize those historical shoes?

Les

Trad climber

Bahston

Jul 22, 2009 - 05:21pm PT

well, I can't come close to the badass factor of Children's Crusade! But I love that Whitehorse granite, too! Not the best of pics, but oh well.

Moving through the headwall on The Wedge:

Friend Rahul following the second pitch of The Wedge:

Doug and Rahul approaching the mossy finish to the 4th pitch of The Wedge:

P3 on Sliding Board:

The final pitch headwall on Sliding Board:

snakefoot

climber

cali

Jul 22, 2009 - 05:27pm PT

went up there in 07 and onsight soloed the guides route, so greasy at the crux with scattered rain drops, i was gripped out of my mind, vowed to never return without a rope.... might have some photos from that day, will search the archives tonight

clustiere

Trad climber

berkeley ca

Jul 22, 2009 - 09:11pm PT

Cool TR~!

Nice job navigating those run outs on 1/4 inchers.

Great rock

Love that place!! I remember being scared out of my whits in highschool on Interloper, Seventh Seal, Etheral Crack, Loose Lips, and a bunch of nondescript slabs.

Tarbuster

climber

right here, right now

Jul 22, 2009 - 09:33pm PT

Whitehorse Ledge: what a storied hunk of beautiful granite!

About those shoes....
(you didn't even have to ask)

The original Five Tennies.
Nice.

Man we used to swarm the standards in Joshua Tree in those fabled kicks.
Best rubber soles ever too.

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Topic Author's Reply - Jul 22, 2009 - 09:58pm PT

The original Five Tennies.

Damn, Roy, I figured you'd know right off. First-gen Five Tennies, indeed. I've gone through
many other approach shoes since I got those, but still like them best and saved 'em for
special occasions.

I recall Billy Westbay's comment when the shoes first came out,
"They don't jam and they don't edge, what good are they?"

But I already had an answer, loved 'em for descents off The Vision or Redgarden Wall, or
for cruising up the 3rd.

Zander

Trad climber

Berkeley

Jul 22, 2009 - 10:55pm PT

Chiloe,
Nice thread. Thanks Man,
Zander

MH2

climber

Jul 22, 2009 - 11:19pm PT

GRRRREAAAT!

Someone else's turn now, there must be other Whitehorse stories.

I was on Whitehorse just once. It was 1967, maybe '68. It was an Outing Club trip and we had 50 foot goldline ropes, on the Standard Route.

Bill Towler led the brown spot and I followed. Then the two of us pulled the other 37 or so climbers up to the ledge we had reached because night had descended.

Our leaders looked for a way off up and right.

Back on the ledge in the dark, I heard a scraping clatter of pins and biners that stopped just short of the abyss.

Our leaders returned and said we would be spending the night on the ledge.

It was mid October and a long cold night was ahead. One among the 49 of us produced matches and we ranged as far as we dared, collecting firewood. I went part way up a pine to get dead lower branches.

Around the fire we played word games such as the one where a clue, for example "roadside utensil", is given, and the answer must rhyme, for exampe "sign tine." (Yeah, it stretches my credulity, too.)

There was pretty girl from RISD, Marion Gruen, who was very unusual. She was a French major. Everyone else was sciences, the harder the better.

I don't remember being cold, but once during the night I did shiver briefly and it caught Marion's attention. She asked me what I was doing. She seemed skeptical of my answer.

The lights below were lonely and distant.

In the morning I saw that when I had been up in the (leaning) tree after branches there had been a couple hundred feet of invisible space under me.

tradchick

Trad climber

White Mountains

Jul 23, 2009 - 07:19am PT

I have a few random shots from Whitehorse. Here's the wild step across to get on Loose Lips

Paul on the crux of Loose Lips

Paul leading Total Recall

cowpoke

climber

Jul 23, 2009 - 08:04am PT

Paul leading Total Recall

Yowza! More please!

tradchick

Trad climber

White Mountains

Jul 23, 2009 - 01:35pm PT

Alas! The Total Recall shot is just a tease...we only did the 1st pitch.

pcousar

Sport climber

White Salmon, WA

Jul 23, 2009 - 01:41pm PT

hey TradChick!

We will be doing some more classic whitehorse pitches in the fall! Cathedral too!

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Topic Author's Reply - Jul 23, 2009 - 04:35pm PT

MH2, that's a story where the word-pictures sound truer than photos.

In the morning I saw that when I had been up in the (leaning) tree after branches
there had been a couple hundred feet of invisible space under me.

The log-carcass of one of those spacey trees was dislodged by a careless climber a
few years back, causing serious injury to another climber far below on the slabs.

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Topic Author's Reply - Jul 23, 2009 - 04:41pm PT

Tradchick, Paul -- Total Recall (5.11b) calls for real edging skillz, too real for me.

Loose Lips has better holds, certain days.

Snakefoot on Loose Lips (5.10a):

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Topic Author's Reply - Jul 23, 2009 - 04:44pm PT

GOclimb leads p2 and p4 (both 5.10a) of Lost Souls:

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Topic Author's Reply - Jul 23, 2009 - 04:48pm PT

JimE and Jerry Dodrill on The Last Unicorn (5.10b):

tradchick

Trad climber

White Mountains

Jul 24, 2009 - 07:50am PT

Paul: Tomcat and I are looking forward to your visit! Can't wait to climb with you again and meet Kay too.

Chiloe: As always, great pics of stellar climbs! That finger crack on Loose Lips is perfect and it lets up just when I start to wonder if I'm gonna make it to the belay.

TrundleBum

Trad climber

Las Vegas

Jul 24, 2009 - 05:50pm PT

This shot:

Made me think of Ed (Yogi Ananda RumBlahs) Sklar.
He used to go over to echo lake in the afternoons and plant himself in a beach chair, chest deep in the water with a cooler full of beer tied to the chair with a less than arm reach length tether.
He used to say it was part of pursuing his career as he had a degree in 'Recreation'.

~~~~~~~~~~~~

Does anybody still play around on the short yet taxing, friction problems of the 'Ninth wave' area?

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Topic Author's Reply - Jul 24, 2009 - 06:34pm PT

TB, good story. Echo Lake had a more cosmic ambience before they built that damn hotel,
golf course and McMansion development between the lake and the cliff.

Does anybody still play around on the short yet taxing, friction problems of the 'Ninth
wave' area?

Back when I was brave, I led The Ninth Wave and Wave Bye Bye a few times. I suspect
they get toproped more often now, but don't recall seeing anyone up there lately.

For that matter, haven't seen folks on Interloper in a while either, which I used to think was
one of the better slab routes.

I wonder if JimE's route with the frightening name, Body Surfing, has been repeated more
than once.

GOclimb

Trad climber

Boston, MA

Jul 24, 2009 - 06:46pm PT

GOclimb leads p2 and p4 (both 5.10a) of Lost Souls

Your excellent TR made me think quite fondly of that day. Many of the same elements were present that day:

A mostly unprotected and slick first pitch. An intimidating overlapping section (but at a much easier grade in the case of Lost Souls) and a final bit that dissolved into slab and moss.

If I recall correctly, there was even a nice overhanging hand crack somewhere. What a bonus!

That was a fine day.

GO

Mungeclimber

Trad climber

sorry, just posting out loud.

Jul 24, 2009 - 08:02pm PT

vunderbar!

MH2

climber

Jul 24, 2009 - 09:51pm PT

I wonder if JimE's route with the frightening name, Body Surfing, has been repeated more
than once.

"He said it was like water-skiing on granite. Lucky for him, he knew how to water-ski."

- Mike Warburton recounting another climber's long fall on GPA.

MH2

climber

Jul 24, 2009 - 09:57pm PT

it was part of pursuing his career as he had a degree in 'Recreation'.

There is, or at least was, a Journal of Leisure Research.

From the example I recall, the folk who published in it were either clueless or excellent at parody.

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Topic Author's Reply - Jul 25, 2009 - 08:07am PT

There is, or at least was, a Journal of Leisure Research.

There was a journal named Review of Sport and Leisure, as well.
I'd know because I published in it once, on "The Changing Face of American Mountaineering."

My paper was a sequel to a better piece I'd placed somewhere else, but hey, there it was.

cowpoke

climber

Jul 25, 2009 - 09:37am PT

Echo Lake had a more cosmic ambience before they built that damn hotel

That makes me chuckle, primarily because when climbing as a family we've taken the "when in Rome" approach to the White Mnt hotel and Echo lake. Our girls love climbing, but they'll promise to clean their rooms for a week if we throw in the icing on the cake. Probably helps that, having moved to NH in 1996, I never knew the undeveloped ambience. Regardless, family climbing outings in the whites have begun and ended more than a couple times with vodka tonics by the pool with this view:

And, strangely enough, the sound of kids playing at Echo lake has a calming effect on me while leading these days, although prior to my girls being born it used to freak me out to be sketching with some kid in the distant background crying for his mommy.

BUT, the coolest part of this thread = Chiloe sharing ropes in the whites with so many great folks over the years. In my Webster guide, several routes (e.g., like GOclimb, Lost Souls) have scribbled next to the description: "w/Larry." What a privilege. Who else have you tied in with on Whitehorse, Chiloe?

And, so many more great routes we haven't seen pictures of yet...

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Topic Author's Reply - Sep 24, 2009 - 05:33pm PT

A few older shots from the files, of STers having fun on Whitehorse.

This would be young Crøtch, climbing Hotter Than Hell (5.9) to Tranquility (5.10b)
on a cool tranquil day.

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Topic Author's Reply - Sep 24, 2009 - 05:36pm PT

Tarbuster again, cruising Short Order (5.9-).

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Topic Author's Reply - Sep 24, 2009 - 05:38pm PT

A younger Jim E prepares to drill his first bolt, while making the first ascent of Swinging Hips
(5.10d R). The three pieces clipped already are part of the classic route Loose Lips (5.10a).

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Topic Author's Reply - Sep 24, 2009 - 05:40pm PT

Not an STer but everybody knows Henry Barber, here leading Hallowed Eve (5.10a R) barefoot.

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Topic Author's Reply - Sep 24, 2009 - 05:52pm PT

Lucander last fall on Atlantis (5.10b).

drljefe

climber

Old Pueblo, AZ

Sep 24, 2009 - 06:34pm PT

I know Pate is frothing after climbing there yesterday and is grateful for your beta Chiloe. I'm sure he'll post up soon.

Awesome thread.

I love granite.

Can't wait to go....next year.

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Topic Author's Reply - Sep 24, 2009 - 07:13pm PT

I know Pate is frothing after climbing there yesterday and is grateful for your beta

Pennsylenvy, a past victim of my excellent Whitehorse beta, steadies his nerves on Tidal Wave
(5.10b R, with direct finish). There's no pro for miles!

I'm sure he'll post up soon.

Good. Another beta victim!

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Topic Author's Reply - Sep 24, 2009 - 09:00pm PT

Lookin' forward to your story, funky old bolts and all.

pip the dog

Mountain climber

planet dogboy

Sep 25, 2009 - 08:33pm PT

MORE ! ! !

^,,^

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Topic Author's Reply - Nov 9, 2009 - 09:15am PT

The South Buttress seemed like the place to be yesterday. Sunny and warm even though the leaves are gone.
We saw other parties on Inferno, Lost Souls, Ladyslipper and Last Unicorn. Any Tacos among them?

tradchick

Trad climber

White Mountains

Nov 9, 2009 - 09:20am PT

Tomcat and I went to Mt. Oscar in Crawford Notch. Our first time there and like the south buttress, warm and sheltered. We actually liked it better though, more route options and the rock is beautiful. Have you checked it out?

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Topic Author's Reply - Nov 9, 2009 - 09:39am PT

No, I haven't been to Mt Oscar, though it's on the edge of my radar. Post some pics!

Maysho

climber

Soda Springs, CA

Nov 9, 2009 - 10:44am PT

Nice shots Chiloe!

Hey, long ago in 1979, I did a first ascent somewhere up there with Ed Webster, maybe on the S. Buttress? I cannot remember the name of the climb or even the details, might have just been a new finish to an already existing route. I know it is in the guidebook but I don't have one. Could you let me know what the heck we did back then? I remember it was good climbing...

Peter

slabbo

Trad climber

fort garland, colo

Nov 9, 2009 - 10:48am PT

I did maybe 15 f/a's and ffa's on Whitehorse and only 1 or2 have seen more than a couple of repeats. Guess they are too runout ? Or maybe people just sport climb more now. Oh well , most of them are pretty good routes anyway.

john

Maysho

climber

Soda Springs, CA

Nov 9, 2009 - 11:08am PT

Slabbo,

I am sorry that your efforts on Whitehorse faded into obscurity. But my one afternoon on that great cliff in 1979 was spent with Ed Webster, so our climb was fricken famous. There were lecture tours, slideshows, photos of him, by him, (the same shots!) the route was uprated, downrated, quality debated, and people came from hither and yon to repeat the thing I am sure. I bet Chiloe has a poster of it on his office wall!

Just kidding, I don't remember the climb, but I remember really liking Ed, and how we razed him back then...

Peter

slabbo

Trad climber

fort garland, colo

Nov 9, 2009 - 11:17am PT

We used to bust Ed too- "photo by" Webster. Ed , how did you get photos of Ed Webster BY Ed Webster ???? Great guy who has put up MANY high quality f/a's.

Pennsylenvy

Gym climber

A dingy corner in your refrigerator

Nov 9, 2009 - 11:30am PT

Chiloe,

had so much fun there. If I'm pssing through I will certainly give you some warning and would love to climb on that superclean granite again. Just a question out of curiousity.... has anybody retro bolted any of the routes there, or is clipping those antique bolts an essential part of the Whitehorse experience. It always seems fun to clip old crappy bolts and pins as long as A: Your in your comfort zone, or B: you don't fall!

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Topic Author's Reply - Nov 9, 2009 - 11:38am PT

Maysho:
Could you let me know what the heck we did back then? I remember it was good climbing...

I'll look your route up when I'm back home with my guidebooks tonight, if somebody else
hasn't already done so.

Slabbo:
I did maybe 15 f/a's and ffa's on Whitehorse and only 1 or2 have seen more than a couple of
repeats. Guess they are too runout ? Or maybe people just sport climb more now.

Prolly all of the above. Where are your routes?

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Topic Author's Reply - Nov 9, 2009 - 11:46am PT

Pennsylenvy:
a question out of curiousity.... has anybody retro bolted any of the routes there, or is clipping
those antique bolts an essential part of the Whitehorse experience.

Bolts on many climbs have been upgraded -- the preference is for "rebolting" rather than
"retrobolting," although there's been some of both. Sometimes a rusty old bolt is just a
friendly reminder that you're off route, and so was someone else.

Other times it might reflect the thought, "Serves you right if you fall on this!"

Here's a shot Jim E took on our climb yesterday, of a nice new bolt that was not comforting.

Tomcat

Trad climber

Chatham N.H.

Nov 9, 2009 - 11:50am PT

Looks like the last pitch of Jacobs Ladder there Chiloe.Mrs. Stryker and I did that for a first date.

cowpoke

climber

Nov 9, 2009 - 11:55am PT

^^^what route did you guys climb, yesterday?!? (trying to guess from first pic, but no clue)

Any Tacos among them?

sadly, not me. unpacking while I jealously looked out at the beautiful weather knowing folks like you were having more fun than me.

Edit: did Tomcat get it?

slabbo

Trad climber

fort garland, colo

Nov 9, 2009 - 11:56am PT

TC and I did - Bit's N Pieces, Unforgettable Fire, Unwanted Guests, Aiwass,Problem Child,Endless Summer,Burnin' Down The House,Man's Best Friend,ETC....

Tomcat

Trad climber

Chatham N.H.

Nov 9, 2009 - 11:58am PT

I've left some skin and rubber on Bits and Pieces....

The more manly TC Slabbo refers to is not me.....lol....

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Topic Author's Reply - Nov 9, 2009 - 12:25pm PT

Tomcat:
Looks like the last pitch of Jacobs Ladder there Chiloe.Mrs. Stryker and I did that for a first date.

Good eye, Jacob's Ladder it is, on the 3rd pitch but there's one more to the top. The climb's
out-of-the-way enough that neither Jim or I had done it, and we had a good time. Here's
Jim E on pitch 2 (5.10a):

Tomcat

Trad climber

Chatham N.H.

Nov 9, 2009 - 12:30pm PT

Nice picture.I just clip the anchors there by that"bong"flake and go on to the top.Works fine with doubles.Fun up there.

Maysho's route would be the FFA of the Roadcut Pitch on South Butt Direct I think,at 5.11bR.

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Topic Author's Reply - Nov 9, 2009 - 12:43pm PT

Jim E has gone to lurker mode, but perhaps he won't mind if I post a few more of his photos
from yesterday.

Pitch 3 was the nominal crux (5.10c):

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Topic Author's Reply - Nov 9, 2009 - 12:44pm PT

Tomcat:
I just clip the anchors there by that "bong" flake and go on to the top.Works fine with
doubles. Fun up there.

That flake is an ugly one, alright. I was quite surprised when it turned out to be the
belay ledge (below)!

The new pitch 4 goes straight up and then slightly right from the left edge of the roof.
5.10b or maybe c with two bolts and small cams. It's seen noticeably less traffic
than the 3 pitches below.

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Topic Author's Reply - Nov 9, 2009 - 12:48pm PT

Jim following P3:

and me following P4:

Tomcat

Trad climber

Chatham N.H.

Nov 9, 2009 - 12:50pm PT

I step left around the corner from the flake,then,as you say a couple cams and two bolts to the top.Oddly,this part seems about 5.8 to me,but perhaps I move back and forth a bit more than other folks.I finish just to the right of the last bolt.Dunno,I know NEClimbs lists the crux as up there.

I actually have the most difficulty getting over the little overhang on the first pitch,which at 5.9+ is the easiest rated.Covered in dirt and pine needles it can be exciting to reach the belay there.

meclimber

Trad climber

Dover, NH

Nov 9, 2009 - 01:37pm PT

Jacobs ladder is a great route, I took a fall on the first pitch )pictured in photo #1 cuase of seepage a the overlap. We climbed most of wonder wall yesterday, that has some brillant climbing. No pics though.

tradchick

Trad climber

White Mountains

Nov 9, 2009 - 01:41pm PT

Chiloe: Here's a few pics from Mt. Oscar, hope to get better ones the next time we're there. It's mostly slab and face climbing with a few cracks thrown in, 5.7 to 5.11 routes, mostly 1 pitch. Rock is coarse granite, really sweet!

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Topic Author's Reply - Nov 9, 2009 - 02:12pm PT

The latest in ropes, 7.7mm and too bright to photograph.

Tomcat

Trad climber

Chatham N.H.

Nov 9, 2009 - 02:37pm PT

The route Tradchicky is rapping is a great 5.8 on gear.The face in the second picture sports two fine 5.9's,and then a classic 5.7 on the left edge.The second pitch of the seven follows a perfect crack for fifty feet up a slab.

Our ropes seem to have picked up some color as well.....wedding gifts from pcousar and his wife !

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Topic Author's Reply - Nov 9, 2009 - 03:29pm PT

Pate, I'll look up my guidebooks tonight. I've always done Wavelength by climbing two
pitches up the Slabs Direct (5.7) to a belay in the arch, then over the arch and step left to
the Wavelength dike. Above that you can finish on Sliding Board (recommended, if time
allows) or rap with 2 ropes.

My Wavelength pics on page 1 are looking down the Wavelength dike pitch (shaded) and,
a bit earlier that day, the sunny 2nd pitch of Slabs Direct.

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Topic Author's Reply - Nov 9, 2009 - 04:22pm PT

You can connect these pitches all sorts of ways, don't know what your topo shows. The way
I'm thinking of climbs pitch 0, 1 and 2 of Slabs Direct as described below, getting up to the thread
belay in the Standard Route arch.

http://www.mountainproject.com/v/new_hampshire/whitehorse_ledge/the_slabs/105938109

Below is a description of the main Wavelength pitch, once you get to the thread belay on Standard.

http://www.mountainproject.com/v/new_hampshire/whitehorse_ledge/the_slabs/105980976

After this 5.8 pitch, Sliding Board with its easy but memorable short headwall gives a nice finish.

MH2

climber

Nov 9, 2009 - 04:36pm PT

Peter Maysho:

I am sorry that your efforts on Whitehorse faded into obscurity. But my one afternoon on that great cliff in 1979 was spent with Ed Webster, so our climb was fricken famous. There were lecture tours, slideshows, photos of him, by him, (the same shots!) the route was uprated, downrated, quality debated, and people came from hither and yon to repeat the thing I am sure. I bet Chiloe has a poster of it on his office wall!

This is why we shy people seldom put up climbs.

Just kidding, of course, but I love the inspired overdrive of the above quote.

Weather looks good, too, from monsoon country, here.

Tomcat

Trad climber

Chatham N.H.

Nov 9, 2009 - 05:09pm PT

Almost unbelieveably,the crux pitch of Wavelength......has protection,like ample protection.I don't know why you'd hop the arch off Standard,like Chiloe said,first two of direct is the norm,plus you can avoid the conga on Standard.

Other nice pitches around there are The Booklet at 5.9,and the upper 5.10 pitch of Interloper at 5.10,both have pretty good gear.Here's Tradchick making Wavelength look easy with one hand tied behind her back !!

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Topic Author's Reply - Nov 9, 2009 - 07:44pm PT

Maysho:
But my one afternoon on that great cliff in 1979 was spent with Ed Webster, so our climb was fricken famous. There were lecture tours, slideshows, photos of him, by him, (the same shots!) the route was uprated, downrated, quality debated, and people came from hither and yon to repeat the thing I am sure. I bet Chiloe has a poster of it on his office wall!

I think Tomcat was right, upthread. Does this sound like your lost route?

"South Buttress Direct, III 5.11b R
...
5. The Road Cut pitch is the climb's crux. Climb up blocky, angular rock to a 15-foot headwall split by a thin crack (5.11b R). Mantle onto a ledge, then face climb past a couple of bolts to a ledge with a two-bolt anchor.
...
The Road Cut pitch ... was free climbed in June, 1979, by Ed Webster & Peter Mayfield."

Jim E

climber

away

Nov 9, 2009 - 10:05pm PT

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Topic Author's Reply - Nov 9, 2009 - 11:13pm PT

Pretty cool to be climbing Inferno with a big smile at age 8.

For those who don't know the route, it's a classic 4-pitch 5.8 or 5.9, with sustained
face climbing on the first pitch and two vertical crack pitches higher.

Jim E

climber

away

Nov 9, 2009 - 11:14pm PT

HA!
She resorted to classic Gaston crack climbing style.

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Topic Author's Reply - Nov 22, 2009 - 11:01pm PT

View from the South Buttress today:

neebee

Social climber

calif/texas

Nov 23, 2009 - 01:20am PT

hey there chiloe... say, and jim E too, and all...

say, thanks for the share... not sure if saw or heard of place/post before...

god bless... :)

leinosaur

Trad climber

burns flat, ok

Nov 23, 2009 - 02:57am PT

Schweetness - yet to climb up there but my sister's a NH resident again with no plans to leave, so I know it's just over the horizon . . . slabbing it up to the steeper stuff sounds mighty familiar to an Okie!

Tomcat

Trad climber

Chatham N.H.

Nov 23, 2009 - 07:13am PT

Tradchick and I had this place entirely to ourselves....

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Topic Author's Reply - Nov 23, 2009 - 09:39am PT

Nice day for a soar! What did you guys do up there?

Jim E, emac and I climbed Fiddler on the Roof. Beautiful weather, cool but not cold.
Jim starts out with P1 of Hotter Than Hell:

For P2, emac found a spicier variation (avoiding most of those big shiny bolts) to
Cold Day in Hell:

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Topic Author's Reply - Nov 23, 2009 - 09:45am PT

Looking up at P3, I realized it was too late to change my place in the rotation.
Jim shot the picture below.

Holds thin out as you move higher on P3. That light-gray rock felt compact as porcelain.

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Topic Author's Reply - Nov 23, 2009 - 09:55am PT

Jim used power and a foot-cam to pull the namesake roof on P4:

Once you get above the roof, handholds become scarce.

But the views are grand. That's when the glider came by.

slabbo

Trad climber

fort garland, colo

Nov 23, 2009 - 10:45am PT

Good to see the flying spirit of Bouchard still lives.

meclimber

Trad climber

Dover, NH

Nov 23, 2009 - 11:28am PT

We were the party of 3 next to you guys on sunday. We had come over to do raindance-wonderwall and I had second thoughts. We ended up on a runout climb on a white streak-hotter-tranquility. Fun day out on classics, it was also a buddies first time climbing in NH, he had just moved from CO and we were trying to show him a good time. We took him to Humphreys on sat. and did wanderlust, cakewalk-hiddin in plain view, then castaways.

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Topic Author's Reply - Nov 23, 2009 - 01:23pm PT

Definitely some lichen here and there. If you found "the" hold for each move that was likely
to be clean, but the route hasn't seen heavy traffic. One section, the overhanging black streak
over the climber in the first P3 photo above, was mossy and dripping wet -- all three of us had
to cheat our way past that. Added to the fun.

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Topic Author's Reply - Nov 23, 2009 - 01:24pm PT

Meclimber, looked like your crew had a full-value day too.

slabbo

Trad climber

fort garland, colo

Nov 23, 2009 - 06:44pm PT

Dudes ! Ya'll should do Unforgetable Fire 11b. It;s really not that runout and features a cool finishing crux at the top of the wall

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Topic Author's Reply - Nov 24, 2009 - 10:45am PT

Tomcat, which summit is that?

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Topic Author's Reply - Nov 24, 2009 - 10:47am PT

Slabbo, I'll look at Unforgettable Fire next time I'm up there. There seem to be
quite a few South Buttress routes that aren't on my radar, I'm not sure where
they go in relation to the popular routes I've done. Henry was describing a whole
bunch of them on Sunday, but I'd need to go up there with some descriptions
to get oriented.

Looking forward to Jerry Handren's new guidebook to open more doors. I like his
idea of cleaning off some forgotten classics from the 80s, good routes that lichen
has reclaimed since they're seldom climbed nowadays -- most traffic concentrating
on 10 routes.

meclimber

Trad climber

Dover, NH

Nov 24, 2009 - 11:03am PT

I'll second that chiloe, the hotter and cold day area bottle neck sometimes. If it were dryer alot more options would open up to reach the upper ledge. Jacobs ladder is a great alternative. And isn't there a .9+ that goes out the arch on inferno? I've also never done the typical start to tranquility. I also get confused on the upper wonderwall area, there is like 4 routes that start off of that .6 pillar and I seem to drift between all of them trying to avoid the death pitch on wonderwall!

tradchick

Trad climber

White Mountains

Nov 24, 2009 - 11:23am PT

Chiloe: That's Baldface Mtn. which is out in North Chatham. It's a peak on the left on the way out to Evans Notch from the NH side.

Great 360 views and the last 30 minutes of the hike is over huge granite slabs and blocks. Some of them were slick with water and we even found a little ice to keeps things interesting.

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Topic Author's Reply - Nov 24, 2009 - 11:38am PT

Baldface, is that the one with twin summits and a ridge walk in between? If so, a great
hike! One of the few I'd compare with the Franconia ridge for that up-in-the-sky quality.

tradchick

Trad climber

White Mountains

Nov 24, 2009 - 12:14pm PT

Yes that's the one! It's a long hike with big elevation gain and the last 1/2 mile can be treacherous through those granite blocks. It was my first time up there and truly spectacular! Good call on Tomcat's part!

Alan Rubin

climber

Amherst,MA.

Nov 24, 2009 - 01:46pm PT

Great photos and great thread. Baldface is an excellent hike, one of the best lesser known (at least it used to be) ones in the North Country. It would be great to have some of the lesser used routes in the North Conway area cleaned up, as it does seem that most of the activity in the area is on a relatively small number of the routes. Unfortunately, however, the reason that many of those routes don't get done is that they lack decent protection. I know there is a 5.7 or so up a dike on the left side of the Wonderwall (forget the name, one of Webster's)that never gets climbed because it is virtually unprotected and I'm aware of others. I know that I'm going on dangerous ground to suggest that "the community" even consider some judicious retrobolting of certain routes, but it might ease some of the overcrowding on the relatively few routes of that grade in that area of the crag. Speaking of lack of protection, take Slabbo's recommendations with a grain of salt--yes, John, you have been know to sandbag on occasion!!!!!

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Topic Author's Reply - Nov 24, 2009 - 02:08pm PT

Alan, I know what you're saying about those scary old routes, many of them too
scary for me -- but I'm real leery of retrobolting. More bolting around North Conway
might spread out the present climbers a bit, but I think the much larger effect would
be to draw in Rumney-like crowds. As I commented at the R&S slideshow last month,
"If you bolt it, they will come."

Also, of course, it would change the character of the climbs.

One in-between alternative, which I endorse for my own routes at least, is to consider
replacing old fixed pitons one-for-one with good bolts in a similar place if a good cam
or nut won't go in. Those pins, now often broken, working loose or rusting apart,
offered decent or at least well-evaluated protection for the FA party BITD.

Alan Rubin

climber

Amherst,MA.

Nov 24, 2009 - 02:55pm PT

Chiloe, I'm surely not advocating sport bolting those routes, in fact, I'm not neceassarily "advocating" any retrobolting at all, rather just raising the subject for discussion. What I am "raising" is to consider the addition of just a few bolts to totally or virtually unprotected and "never-climbed" routes (some may never have been repeated since the FAs in the '70s, or such repeats are very rare)to make them at least reasonable for competent climbers operating at the requisite grade range.I do think there is a difference worth thinking about between unprotected routes that were at or near the cutting edge at the time they were done, and such routes put up later by climbers normally operating several grades above the routes they chose to establish without adequate protection. I know of a number of routes in Tuolumne that were established (usually solo and boltless) by folks like Bacher, Yablonski,etc.(who were climbing 11s and 12s at the time) that climb sections of crackless domes at grades of 5.7 and 5.8(grades that are accessible to alot of folks but in short supply in that area). I personally feel that it was somewhat selfish of those climbers to "claim' those routes(they could have just kept their ascents to themselves) and therefore effectively foreclose the many climbers who could have enjoyed them had they placed a few bolts for protection.(This issue really only involves routes that offer no other protection possibilities except for bolts, as no one seems to have an ethical problem with folks using modern protection on crack routes that were unable to be protected at the time of the FAs because the gear to adequately protect them was not then in existence. Surely any 5.7 or 8 crack routes solo FAed by those same folks in Tuolumne would be frequently repeated by climbers who would have no hesitation placing protection in them.)This is just my opionion, but I do think it is worth some consideration.

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Topic Author's Reply - Nov 24, 2009 - 03:55pm PT

Yeah, I knew you weren't advocating sport bolting. Drawing the line seems tough
though. It would be an interesting conversation over beers. Which routes?

Alan Rubin

climber

Amherst,MA.

Nov 24, 2009 - 04:22pm PT

Which routes? Wow, not ready for that discussion yet. As i said I'm mainly being an agent provocateur here. Besides I'm at work and don't have my books handy--and my memory is fading with age. But, for the sake of discussion is Tranquility the Webster Wonderwall 5.7 or so that is virtually unprotected--and never done? Then, I remember doing a route on the south buttress many , many years ago with Al Long put up by Bob Anderson and Wayne Christian--Airy Arie or something--rated 5.8 (then). I recall a foothold stance with the anchors stuffed into a, probably expanding, downward pointing flake and Al leading a long way above with no pro--maybe the entire pitch--definitely do not fall conditions on both pitches. Don't know how, or if, it is climbed these days, but it could surely use at least an anchor!!!! At a harder level (so I am not as "strong" here) there are a number of routes--again mostly Webster's--on the far right side of Cathedral near Diedre that are poorly protected, overgrown and never done. But again, I'm really not pushing a wholesale retrobolting, but just suggesting that it be considered on a very limited basis on a few routes.Also, it should only be done with the consent of the FA party, if possible. I'd love to discuss this and more over beers any time. Don't get up to Conway much these days, though hopefully I'll get up there at least once this winter. Once spring rolls around again (or if the current Indian Summer conditions persist), if you plan on heading back down in this direction, let me know and we can get together. Sorry I missed your slide show in the Gunks a couple of weeks back, but had a family commitment.

Seamstress

Trad climber

Yacolt, WA

Nov 24, 2009 - 04:54pm PT

Al,

That is a very fair question to ask. And as many first ascencionists are dying off, moving out of the sport, or moving away, it is a timely conversation to have.

Keep in mind that a few well protected classics are overrun with people, and a little more dispersion of climbers would be a good thing.

Also keep in mind that tragic accidents can threaten access. The sport doesn't operate in isolation to the rest of the world. Rumor has it that a young area in ID strongly discourages really run-out moderates.

This thread started with Childrens Crudae, and I vividly recall spending 45 minutes staring at "The Mantle" the first time and choosing to downclimb and clean the whole thing. I am not a good down climber, so that choice was not made lightly. A year later, I did "The Mantle", grabbing one foot with a hand in a desperate attempt to gain the ledge despite no flexibility. Don't ask me how I pulled it off - adrenaline is a miracle substance. Since the whole climb is rated much harder than 5.9, I probably wouldn't ne in favor of retro-bolting that. But part of me......

It is a pity to see routes fall into total obscurity because moderate climbers feel unsafe doing moderate, unprotected pitches and the elite have chosen to climb on to harder stuff or FAs elsewhere.

Tranquility has some pro on the easier pitches. It was the last, 10b/c pitch that I remember being heart stopping.

In my travels, I often note that the bolts get closer together on harder climbs. The first clips are often the hardest to make. If the first ascencionist was trying to humble me, it really isn't necessary. You don't need to put up a death route to earn my admiration. The opposite is far more likely to earn it.

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Topic Author's Reply - Nov 24, 2009 - 05:28pm PT

Hah, there goes that slippery slope! In my view the lower pitches of Children's
Crusade are prime examples of things that should not be retrobolted, they're
brilliant just as they are.

But anyone could have different views, and that's the risk in starting down this
path.

cowpoke

climber

Nov 24, 2009 - 07:41pm PT

My goodness, I lie in bed with the trendy new diet called "the stomach flu" for a couple days and look what happens to this thread.

Fiddler on the Roof looks fabulous, Larry = kudos to you, Jim, and emac!

But, can't decide if I'm liking the virtual belay or just growing grumpier with envy and self-pity...yep, the latter.

slabbo

Trad climber

fort garland, colo

Nov 24, 2009 - 07:51pm PT

Al- My man, You are wrong. Just 'cause routes don't get repeated means nothing. We did a route 12 years ago that just got it' second- BRILLIANT.
How many people do Castaways,Gill' groove,Pumping Station ?????
Sure it's nice if people repeat your f/a's but the fact remains the route is there to do - or not.

I regard new bolts "retro" as evil. You now that someone just "claimed" an f/a in the Quarries that I'm pretty sure you and Kevin did around '67

john

Tomcat

Trad climber

Chatham N.H.

Nov 25, 2009 - 07:51am PT

Children's Crusade is,as Chiloe points out,just fine the way it is.Although the whole route is rated 5.11 something,originally it was just the first three pitches at 5.9 plus,with only #1 being plus.

I did the first pitch of Tranquility just once,found it very runout at 5.7.I have led the bulge finish once too,and would take my chances on that again before P1,at spicy 10b.

Retrobolting and the whole hard guys put up easy routes carelessly discussion is fine to have.Unfortunately what has happened at Humphery's is that first came the retrobolting,which opened the door to freely bolting a lot of stuff,to where we are now getting sixty foot moderates with five bolts,one cam and a bolt anchor.That in turn is pushing the whole left side into being a sport cliff,well within sight of Cathedral.

Also once people start f*#king with routes,it's....well....a slippery slope.My friend Mel and I put up a 10a years ago,that was probably the best route on a cliff in Pa.It was scary,we did it on the lead,ground up.After a year only one repeat,we felt selfish,so put a bolt at the crux.Later someone removed our lower piton and placed a bolt there,which would have made it go without the bolt above now.Then someone decided to straighten out the start,we went the way we did because we could get more climbing,and get gear.Now it's basically a sport route.Once it starts,you can't get the genie back in the bottle.

Edit to add: There are a great many good routes people just don't bother sussing out.Don't Fire at 10b,Youth Challenge,Bon Temps,Reign of Fire,Revolt of the Dike Brigade,sheesh,people shy away from Turner Flake,with a #4 Camalot that route is totally safe.I've led Lancelot Link more times than I have ever seen anyone else on it.Some routes are just popular.

Alan Rubin

climber

Amherst,MA.

Nov 25, 2009 - 09:14am PT

Glad to see I got a discussion started, my main purpose. I agree it is a potentially slippery slope, but especially in a community such as North Conway there are plenty of people who will make sure that things stay in balance. I surely agree that Childrens should remain the way it is--even chickensh#t, professional second "I" have managed to lead it as is. And while I agree that most other routes should remain the same, even if unrepeated, I do think that there could be a few exceptions that would benefit from some additional bolts. The Webster 5.7 route I was thinking about is not Tranquility(a 5.10, of course), but Southern Belle. how many on here have done that one? Ed, in his book, describes it as "a 5.7 for 5.10 leaders", which basically makes my point. 5.10 leaders can't be bothered with a dirty, death 5.7, and 5.7/9 climbers won't get on it. Even though it was one of the first routes on that section of the wall, is the easiest and takes a good line, Jerry Handren completely left it out of his guidebook. Given the limited number of, and great demand for, routes of that difficulty, especially on the South Buttress, it may make sense to resurrect that route with a few additional bolts to make it a realistic proposition for folks climbing in that grade range. The other route I mentioned Airy Aerie is described by Webster as "likely unrepeated" (not true as Long and I did it but at the cost of significant mental trauma!!!!)and only mentioned in passing but not described by Handren, could also benefit from some additional gear--though at least in this case the route has been somewhat superceded by better (and somewhat better protected) routes in the same area of rock, i.e., Harvest, etc. I just feel that a few more "reasonable" routes in that vicinity would be a good "addition" and surely relieve the pressure on routes like Hotter Than Hell. The reason that those routes have appeared on Humphreys is that there is a demand, and personally I think it is a good thing that that long-largely-ignored crag is getting attention at last, and I don't see how this activity is in any way diminishing the trad. adventures at Cathedral and Whitehorse.
Hey "Slabbo"--imagine you and I disagreeing about something--like thats never happened before!!!!! Since when have you been out in Colorado? What have you been up to? Where has someone claimed a new route in the Quarries? Things really HAVE reached a pretty bad state if folks are claiming routes there!!! But I do remember a debate a while back about bolts on Ladder Line--I recall that your stance then was at variance with your current position on bolting. Happy Thanksgiving!!!! Alan

slabbo

Trad climber

fort garland, colo

Nov 25, 2009 - 09:32am PT

I would have photos from Whitehorse too, but it's hard to let go of the drill/hammer ! Maybe I'll dig a few out.

tradmanclimbs

Ice climber

Pomfert VT

Nov 25, 2009 - 09:52am PT

Thet 5.9 arch of inferno is the 1st pitch of Atlantis. It would have been a pretty fun lead except for one nasty loose wet section. Did it once and that was enough.

Alan. it will never happen in NC unless someone with the right street creds does it. All those bolts over on humphreys are tolerated because of who placed them not where or how they were placed.

Its a fairly simple equation actually. If a climb is getting done like Childrens crusade then it is good just the way it is. If a moderate climb say 5.9 and under @ cathedral or WH has not been repeted in 20 years then it is a fair bet that the FA party did botch job of it and it should be cleaned up and fixed.

Of course if 5.11 and 12 + climbers went out and basicly soloed a few of those unrepeted moderates then they could reclaime them for at least the next 20 years but that would be a bit selfish INMOP

So yes if your climb is 5.9 and under at a roadside crag and has not seen an ascent in 20 years you did in fact screw it up so bad that you should feel obligated to go back and fix it INMOP ;)

I did a little experiment with one of my own routs in VT a few years ago. It was a spicy 5.7 that had not been repeted for a full year since the FA. I made Isa lead it one day and she declared it a POS and I was jerk for sending her up it. I then retroed a single bolt to the climb (on lead) and did a 5.8 variation finish. The climb was done at least 6 times in 2 days. Now with the 5.8 variation and that single bolt that climb sees reguler traffic and is regarded by quite a few as their favorite moderate at that area. It still has a fairly spicy start with no fall moves but the climb now aparenty has just enough gear in the right places to become populer.

Annother time I free soloed a 5.6 and then went back and rope solo bolted it. new leaders now have their fun and i can still free solo it whenever I choose. It really is not rocket science. Its called being nice and considerate of other folks needs ;)

tradmanclimbs

Ice climber

Pomfert VT

Nov 25, 2009 - 10:02am PT

quote Hah, there goes that slippery slope! In my view the lower pitches of Children's
Crusade are prime examples of things that should not be retrobolted, they're
brilliant just as they are. end quote.

Precisly. With my simple rule this is completly covered. 20 years without an ascent and its time for the cleaning and fixing crew. If its getting climbed then it does not need cleaning or fixing.

slabbo

Trad climber

fort garland, colo

Nov 25, 2009 - 10:11am PT

I dunno.. I never really consider other people's need when doing an f/a. Sure that may be selfish and egotistical, but that is what climbing in general and especially f/a's is/can be about.
As long as the bolts are good and belays solid then people can do or not do a route.

Paul Ross says :" people give you a hard time about f/a's just wish they had done it first"

john

Haven't we had this chat before ?

tradchick

Trad climber

White Mountains

Nov 25, 2009 - 10:12am PT

tradmanclimbs

Ice climber

Pomfert VT

Nov 25, 2009 - 10:23am PT

Slabbo, being selfish and egotisticle is a choice.

Alan Rubin

climber

Amherst,MA.

Nov 25, 2009 - 10:23am PT

They are on the far side of the south buttress, just right of Children's Crusade, above Seventh Seal, etc.

tradchick

Trad climber

White Mountains

Nov 25, 2009 - 10:26am PT

Thanks! Both of the climbs are the middle section of the cliff, between the slabs and the Wonder Wall.

Loose Lips starts at the top of the Ethereal Buttress (climb Seventh Seal or Ethereal, then link up with Loose Lips). It's a face climb at the beginning and then turns into a perfect diagonal finger crack.

Total Recall is left of Loose Lips in the Childrens Crusade area. Hard face and I've only done the first pitch. It's a 10 or 11, can't remember.

slabbo

Trad climber

fort garland, colo

Nov 25, 2009 - 10:42am PT

Selfish ? Maybe,but are you REALLY thinking about other people when doing a ground up onsight f/a ?? I don't ever recall thinking this way,maybe after, but not while actually climbing.

example on Whitehorse- Was Willie Crowther being selfish on the f/a of Sliding board 'cause he did horrendous run-outs ? I doubt it. He was not thinking about later ascenders,he was thinking about climbing to the top and surviving ( I did ask him).

Did Alain Comeau get Egotistical doing Children's ? No, he of course could have placed more bolts and maybe should have ? He was thinking about climbing to the top and that was it.

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Topic Author's Reply - Nov 25, 2009 - 10:43am PT

With whatever authority I might have as the OP, I hereby declare bolt discussions and TR
photos are equally welcome on this thread!

I hear there was a significant rockfall in the Ethereal area recently, perhaps Sunday night.

slabbo

Trad climber

fort garland, colo

Nov 25, 2009 - 10:55am PT

Ya , the rockfall came from the halfway ledge between Aiwass and upper Children's. May have hit Revolt, Looselips, etc. There is a decent size talus under Ethereal so.....

Alan Rubin

climber

Amherst,MA.

Nov 25, 2009 - 11:01am PT

Wow, hope that Loose Lips didn't sustain a direct hit, that traverse crack/flake has always had a bit of a "temporary" appearance!!!!

slabbo

Trad climber

fort garland, colo

Nov 25, 2009 - 11:06am PT

Al, check your mail, I just pm'd you

Jim E

climber

away

Nov 25, 2009 - 11:34am PT

Chiloe, Is that locker an attempt to better ensure the retention of the hanger when that stud snaps off? Don't want that little relic to die a lonely death in the woods at the base?

Mojomonkey

climber

Philadelphia, PA

Nov 25, 2009 - 11:34am PT

Photos of the rock fall were posted here

From that link (jaablink on rc.com):

Not 100%, but I am pretty sure the block came from mid corners, about 4 th pitch around Childrens crusade direct. Looks like loose lips was hit by a large chunk too around p2. I was checking the area out with some binoculars but cant find the exact point of start. I can only make a logical guess. Judging a large pile of fresh debris on the third pitch ledge , the block came from the roof above, then shattered on the ledge below sending granite chunks down to the ground scaring the rock and making some new holds on their way. Some small rocks came down while I was there today, and the area should probably be avoided at least untill the ice cleans it off some for us. EMR is aware and the event will be brought up at the meeting tonight.

meclimber

Trad climber

Dover, NH

Nov 25, 2009 - 11:37am PT

Alot of these routes metioned do get done, even with the pro as it is. As part of the younger generation i know that the crew of guys i climb with and around are getting up on these classic if neglected routes. Castaways, don't fire, youth challenge, and revolt all get done pretty regularly. Harvest,childrens crusade, eliminate direct, wonderwall, science friction wall all see traffic. I know recently me and a few other people have been talking about replacing some relics to try to improve the quality of the experience. We recently did the wonderwall and the fifth pitch as a horror show (we did the harvest-wonderwall variation) and it was 20 feet between 1/4" bolts with nasty hangers. The climbing was great, but the pro was terrible. I can deal with the runouts but not with no end in sight.
On cathedral there has been a slew of recent activity above the bonfire ledge, both in new routing and spring cleaning on the existing lines. All done in good style. I even sometimes look at some of slabbo's routes and what to take a wack at them. (the climb to the right of orcs, the flake by inferno, among others)

cowpoke

climber

Nov 25, 2009 - 11:59am PT

Regarding Children's Crusade: I think the bolt on the last pitch that is pictured in Chiloe's last post (a pic I took while he was leading precarious ground - ha!) makes the 10+ slab move not far above the pro more "interesting" than the mantle on the first pitch. On the latter, the bolts are further below your feet...but they are big, shiny, and sunk to the hilt.

Regarding the more general bolting in the N Conway area topic: with only a few exceptions, the bolting status quo seems just about right for me, not too spicy and not too bland. The bolting debates, per se, in this region have generally worked as a fairly efficient mechanism that have, in the end, usually left the needle in my comfort zone (i.e., not too many bolts and not too few).

As someone who has fearfully backed off many a route that others would consider very well protected -- some of these I've even led before (Chiloe witnessed my last embarrassing incident not too long ago) -- my favorite climbs in the region and elsewhere all had some bit of spice involved. The first pitch of Children's Crusade is a case in point: first time on the route, I up-n-down climbed the mantle entry move several times until the sun slipped behind the clouds (psychologically adding traction to my sweaty hands and not-so-sticky-feeling-shoes).

It is the spicy routes (several never to be done) that I daydream about. They keep me coming back for more embarrassment, time and time again. The very well protected routes, even the really fun ones, have always felt a bit like training for the real deal. That said, I've never met a bolt I didn't clip!

tradmanclimbs

Ice climber

Pomfert VT

Nov 25, 2009 - 12:01pm PT

Slabbo, Slideing board and CC get done just about every day when the weather is good. Those are not the kind of routs that I am talking about. If it gets climbed that much then those guys must have done a stand up good job of putting those routs in. One of my favorite slab climbs is Screaming Meanie on Rojers rock. mandatory 90ft runout on the 3rd pitch. Recently a longtime local put a horrible bolted squeeze job in there that totaly screws up the experience. You simply can not climb the first pitch without being sucked into clipping the bolts of the squeeze job.....

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Topic Author's Reply - Nov 25, 2009 - 01:06pm PT

Chiloe, Is that locker an attempt to better ensure the retention of the hanger when that
stud snaps off? Don't want that little relic to die a lonely death in the woods at the base?

Hah, that's it, didn't want to lose the nice SMC hanger if I fell, snapped the stud, and
F2'd on the belay! Fortunately none of that happened.

Jim E

climber

away

Mar 8, 2010 - 12:41pm PT

bump cuz the nice weather outside my office window and the bumping of photo threads has me feelin' a bit itchy...

climber

Hangin' by a thread and lookin' for my wings

Mar 8, 2010 - 09:05pm PT

We might need a few more photos on this thread...hint-hint...OP...hint-hint...

perswig

climber

Mar 9, 2010 - 07:00am PT

Tomcat

Trad climber

Chatham N.H.

Mar 9, 2010 - 07:25am PT

This fellow.....who is he? He is midway through the first pitch of the first route Perswig posts above.The best clue to his identity lies near his waist...he's leading.

Derek

climber

Mar 9, 2010 - 07:29am PT

That there is hot Henry Barber. Looks like he's headed up something near Beginners Route?

Tomcat

Trad climber

Chatham N.H.

Mar 9, 2010 - 07:35am PT

Nice call Derek. He's actually just a bit lower than the climber in Perswig's first shot,about to do what I call the adjective cracks on Sleeping Beauty.Three short cracks,slanted,discontinuous,rounded,bottoming.

Hot One wearing his signature one inch swami,and going spring free as always.

Derek

climber

Mar 9, 2010 - 07:41am PT

Ah...I thought that tree island down and left of him was the one folks so often set up an awkward belay on when doing Beginners, instead of stepping up and left to the nice comfy ledge anchor. Kinda looks like it from that angle...

Tomcat

Trad climber

Chatham N.H.

Mar 9, 2010 - 07:44am PT

I took the picture from Short Order,which is the route in Perswig's second set of photos.I have the exact same series of shots from S.O as Dale but I'm hoping to use them in my "How not to climb on double ropes" series soon....lol....

Edge

Trad climber

New Durham, NH

Mar 9, 2010 - 09:59am PT

A couple pics from 1995 of Meaghan on her first roped climb, age 7.

Jim E

climber

away

Mar 9, 2010 - 11:43am PT

Edge, Looks like Whitehorse is the place to take 7 year old daughters on their first outings.

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Topic Author's Reply - Mar 9, 2010 - 12:12pm PT

Wow, identical daughter summit shots!

Sarah and I climbed Whitehorse together when she was 11.
She wrote a wonderful story about that day, as one of her college-application essays.

Jim E

climber

away

Mar 9, 2010 - 12:17pm PT

I wonder if by age 18 Maxine will even remember that day. The photos will help I suppose.
I will remember it as one of my greatest outings ever.

meclimber

Trad climber

Dover, NH

Mar 9, 2010 - 12:18pm PT

Been real warm here in NH recently. I climbed at Willoughby on sat and bouldered in p-way on sun. Both days perfect temps. Band M and Humphreys will be the place to be in the next week or so.

Edge

Trad climber

New Durham, NH

Mar 9, 2010 - 12:33pm PT

Jim, that is hysterical! Identical photos right down to the pink shirt and helmet. Cheers!

Meg graduates in 2 months from Roger Williams University with math and education majors, summa c#m laude, and she still remembers that day as fondly as I do.

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Topic Author's Reply - Apr 4, 2010 - 04:52pm PT

Perfect weather in the North Country this weekend, I hope almost everyone got out.

Surprisingly uncrowded on Whitehorse, though. Cowpoke and I had the Wonder Wall to ourselves.

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Topic Author's Reply - Apr 4, 2010 - 04:58pm PT

4th class always makes me nervous. Cowpoke following the approach pitch:

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Topic Author's Reply - Apr 4, 2010 - 05:03pm PT

Single-point anchor:

Cowpoke on P1 of Ladyslipper:

Uh oh, another single-point anchor:

tradchick

Trad climber

Vermont

Apr 4, 2010 - 05:28pm PT

Chiloe: Is that the same traverse to get over to the Last Unicorn?

We went to Echo on Saturday and it was very wet. Managed to find a few dry routes around Skeletal Ribs.

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Topic Author's Reply - Apr 4, 2010 - 06:14pm PT

Yep, same approach as Last Unicorn, but for Ladyslipper you stop on the first big tree ledge instead of going farther right.

cowpoke

climber

Apr 4, 2010 - 07:14pm PT

tradchick, looking up at chiloe before he made the traverse, I wondered if our day might be wet too.

tradchick

Trad climber

Vermont

Apr 4, 2010 - 07:37pm PT

Cowpoke and Chiloe: I was surprised the cliff was so wet after 3 days of sun, wind and warm temps. Nice that you found some dry climbs too!

And Chiloe, I'm with you, I don't like that traverse!

meclimber

Trad climber

Dover, NH

Apr 5, 2010 - 08:42am PT

I hate the bees that haunt the next part of that traverse. 4th class + bees=suck!

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Topic Author's Reply - Apr 5, 2010 - 09:25am PT

meclimber:
I hate the bees that haunt the next part of that traverse. 4th class + bees=suck!

Yep, there was bees nesting in the dirt on the tree ledge. They got all agitated when we climbed past.

tradchick:
Nice that you found some dry climbs too!

The traverse had some wet streaks, but we were happily surprised by how dry Ladyslipper itself was.
Below, Cowpoke pauses before committing on the big pitch (5.9+). The line crosses the black streak
to his right, then continues up near the right margin of the black streak on steep face climbing until
you reach an overhanging layback at the top.

cowpoke

climber

Apr 5, 2010 - 09:32am PT

I hate the bees that haunt the next part of that traverse.

Yeah, they were already out-n-about. They seem to "bivy" in the dirt around the tree in Chiloe's first single-point anchor picture.

edit: oops, looks like we were simul-posting bee comments, Larry.

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Topic Author's Reply - Apr 5, 2010 - 09:35am PT

Edge

Trad climber

New Durham, NH

Apr 5, 2010 - 10:57am PT

Chiloe and Cowpoke, thanks for the memories. I did Ladyslipper maybe 20 years ago, I think with Angelini, and remember it being quite fun climbing on that wide open face.

Well done on the early season tick!

At the moment I am sidelined with a nagging turf toe injury that prevents any weighting of my left big toe, so until it heals I will have to live vicariously through TRs and photos. Keep 'em coming.

Please!

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Topic Author's Reply - Apr 5, 2010 - 11:16am PT

Nice views from the South Buttress as always. The rock season hasn't always started this early!

The real snow is all gone at this elevation, but across the valley the last remnants of fake snow
at Mt Cranmore ski area are hanging on a bit longer.

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Topic Author's Reply - Apr 5, 2010 - 11:19am PT

Cowpoke looking understandably pleased with his lead.

tradchick

Trad climber

Vermont

Apr 5, 2010 - 11:33am PT

Nice pics and looks like you had a great day!!

That's one of the few routes I've missed at WH (in my climbing range). Guess I'll have to add that to my list.

climber

Training for the Blue Tape Route on Half Dome

Apr 5, 2010 - 11:39am PT

Aaaaaahhhhhhh...nothing like a good vicarious climb under blues skies first thing Monday morning! (Especially when it's raining cats-n-canines here.)

Muy gracias!

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Topic Author's Reply - Apr 5, 2010 - 11:54am PT

We hung out on that ledge quite a while, soaking up perfect short-sleeves weather. Then the
conversation turned to food and it was time to head down. Descending from Ladyslipper, like
the approach, is not quite brain-free. A couple of diagonal, 2-rope rappels past snaggy trees
and loose flakes, and in between them scrambling back across that 4th-class traverse.

Driving home we talked over the sad state of the nation and what we ought to climb next.

Jim E

climber

away

Apr 5, 2010 - 12:03pm PT

Damn. I tried really hard to make arrangements to join you guys. People were called, deals were made. In the end I was the one left holding the bag.

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Topic Author's Reply - Apr 5, 2010 - 12:09pm PT

Yeah, Jim we missed you. The weather will never again be as pleasant or black fly-free
as it was on the weekend you couldn't go climbing!

cowpoke

climber

Apr 5, 2010 - 12:11pm PT

Damn. I tried really hard to make arrangements to join you guys. People were called, deals were made. In the end I was the one left holding the bag.

We also said, "Damn. Wish Jim had made it." Good news? The whole season is before us.

edit: oh boy, Chiloe = cruel.

cowpoke

climber

Apr 5, 2010 - 12:32pm PT

By the way, Jim, I had a Whitehorse-related question for you that came up during our reasonably-protected fun on Ladyslipper: how old were you when you did the FA of Body Surfing? Or, more to the point, how long had you been climbing?

Just the name of that bold line gives me the willies.

Jim E

climber

away

Apr 5, 2010 - 12:49pm PT

I was probably about 22 or 23 which meant I had been climbing for about 10 years, but only seriously for maybe 6.

The short bit where it leaves Standard is kind of cool and well worth doing. The upper (crux) part where it parallels Wavelength is stupid and quite possibly deadly.

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Topic Author's Reply - Apr 5, 2010 - 01:53pm PT

Has Body Surfing been repeated?

Jim E

climber

away

Apr 5, 2010 - 02:21pm PT

I have no idea.
It's really not worth doing. Although, I think the first overlap would be a reasonable variation to the start of Wavelength.

meclimber

Trad climber

Dover, NH

Apr 5, 2010 - 02:27pm PT

Great pics guys, we did wonderwall lastfall and climbed that ladyslipper pitch to the anchors below that last corner in the upper right of your photo. The ladyslipper pitch or at least what we did was kinda creepy if fun. The traverse right was a breath holder!!!

Edge

Trad climber

New Durham, NH

Apr 5, 2010 - 02:58pm PT

I led the first pitch of Body Surfing in '87, then magically grew wings, tailfeathers, and a desire to peck corn off the ground as I stared up at pitch two.

Bailed from there.

Ricardo Cabeza

climber

All Over.

Apr 5, 2010 - 03:20pm PT

Anyone want to show an East Coast Noob around the Conway area?

I hate to admit it, but my early (NE) climbing years were all sport climbing at Rumney.
Cali was where I learned the better way.
If anyone is so inclined, I can make sandwiches, swap leads with a little beta, and provide beers at the Moat after.

Tomcat

Trad climber

Chatham N.H.

Apr 5, 2010 - 03:20pm PT

Jon,so did you link from Ladyslipper to WW? I've only led the Slipper once,and did the final pitch of scrap.How is the link up to WW? Last pitch is airy 5.10a-ish correct?

slabbo

Trad climber

fort garland, colo

Apr 5, 2010 - 07:15pm PT

i did body Surfin' with karl mallmen once. i got P1 and he did P2 with the quote " why not, iv'e lived long enough"

Alan Rubin

climber

Amherst,MA.

Apr 6, 2010 - 11:10am PT

Slabbo--I figured that if anyone had repeated Bodysurfing it would have been you or Tom, forgot Karl as a possible contender.

Jim E

climber

away

Apr 6, 2010 - 11:25am PT

Wow! I'm amazed anyone ever bothered to repeat that thing. I agree with Alan, if I had to guess likely contenders slabbo would have been top of the list.
I rather regret not bolting that thing, sometimes.

tradchick

Trad climber

Vermont

Apr 11, 2010 - 06:15pm PT

A nice day of climbing at Whitehorse...started off wondering if these clouds were coming our way

There was some water around so Tomcat and I headed to one of the climbs that typically dries first:

Another party further up on the route:

And further down the cliff we ran into some wildlife (these boys tried to convince us that lycra was making a comeback)

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Topic Author's Reply - Apr 11, 2010 - 07:54pm PT

TC, I like your first photo, with ominous clouds approaching. We were looking at those
too, as we drove north this morning -- thinking, will this day go bad?

Happily, it did not.

Jim E

climber

away

Apr 11, 2010 - 11:08pm PT

Whitehorse was apparently the place to be today.

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Topic Author's Reply - Apr 12, 2010 - 12:28am PT

Jim, what's the route?

tradchick

Trad climber

Vermont

Apr 12, 2010 - 06:22am PT

I'm wondering about that route too. We finished up on Seventh Seal and could see a party on the skyline, we thought maybe the Last Unicorn?

Jim E

climber

away

Apr 12, 2010 - 07:54am PT

That's emac at the end of the traverse on Science Friction. A good onsight for the first outing of the season.

I saw Team Hamilton arrive at the base but they had already left by the time we arrived back at our packs.

emac

climber

New Hampshire

Apr 12, 2010 - 10:55am PT

A couple of Jim_E from yesterday following P2 of Science Friction Wall...

Edge

Trad climber

New Durham, NH

Apr 12, 2010 - 11:03am PT

Nice job Emac and Jim_E; that is such a fun line!

And Jim, I was wearing that same Moonstone hat while climbing here in New Durham on Saturday...

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Topic Author's Reply - Apr 12, 2010 - 11:06am PT

Edge, what's the climbing like in New Durham?

cowpoke

climber

Apr 12, 2010 - 01:08pm PT

hey, nice pictures, all...

Science Friction. A good onsight for the first outing of the season.

I'd say.

Jim E

climber

away

Apr 12, 2010 - 01:28pm PT

I'd say.

It's a good thing he sent, cuz I'm not sure I would have been able to take over. Judging by how shattered I am today I'm certain of it.

meclimber

Trad climber

Dover, NH

Apr 12, 2010 - 01:33pm PT

We were there on sunday as well, did the money pitch of the eliminate. Great hard climbing in an incredible position. We have to go back to finish the upper pitches. We then worked around the wetness and climbed jacobs ladder to the top. It had been a while since we had done this route and I had forgotten how much fun it was. Saw e_mac and jim e in the parking lot and chiloe rapping off HTH. Great day.

Jim E

climber

away

Apr 12, 2010 - 01:54pm PT

C'mon, meclimber, we NEED photos!

Edge

Trad climber

New Durham, NH

Apr 12, 2010 - 02:23pm PT

Edge, what's the climbing like in New Durham?

We have a fairly extensive little outcrop with some 45-75' climbs, mostly sport bolted faces but with some overhangs and occasional need for gear. MP has a route list and some pics listed under "Devils Den."

A couple of the developers were in there also on Sat, and did a major clean up before we arrived. I am nursing a bad case of turf toe but wanted to check it out, and found that I cannot put any weight over the inside of my big toe, even after 3 months rest, ice, etc.

If you want to check it out I will be happy to show you around and belay. It is definitely worth checking out. The Outback Wall, in particular has stellar 45-55 foot steep face climbing on great rock, 5.9 - 5.11d. From the top you can see both Merrymeeting lake and Winnipesaukee in opposite directions.

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Topic Author's Reply - Apr 12, 2010 - 02:42pm PT

Hmm, I saw the notes on MP and was intrigued. They mentioned broken glass, though,
is it a bad place for dogs? Does it dry out or stay damp after wet weather?

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Topic Author's Reply - Apr 12, 2010 - 03:12pm PT

Pate:
The Northwoods crew gets out and smashes! Nice job guys.

Apparently the great minds of ST thought alike, "Whitehorse," yesterday.

meclimber:
Saw e_mac and jim e in the parking lot and chiloe rapping off HTH. Great day.

Oh no, you saw us rapping off Cold Day in Hell! It might have looked like HTH because,
well, actually it's the same rappel.

JimE:
C'mon, meclimber, we NEED photos!

He's right, it's Monday and we need those weekend photos.

Edge

Trad climber

New Durham, NH

Apr 12, 2010 - 03:12pm PT

Hmm, I saw the notes on MP and was intrigued. They mentioned broken glass, though, is it a bad place for dogs? Does it dry out or stay damp after wet weather?

Really pretty minimal glass, and those guys raked all the trails this weekend. I bring my dogs there a couple times a month and never had any problems. I just make sure to watch them when we are atop the cliffs,and have someone walk them around if I want to go through the cave. The cave is pretty unique and worth a spin; you can feel your way through it, but a headlamp makes you appreciate it more. It is probably 50 feet of horizontal leading to a 14' ladder exit, or you can squeeze chimney your way out for added spice...

On Saturday the two easiest routes on the Outback Wall had seepage, a 5.9 and a .10b, but I bet they were doable. The rest of the place was dry, and that was after a day of rain.

Edge

Trad climber

New Durham, NH

Apr 12, 2010 - 03:14pm PT

C'mon, meclimber, we NEED photos!

The proof is in the lens work! C'mon, you can do it!

HighDesertDJ

Trad climber

Arid-zona

Apr 12, 2010 - 03:16pm PT

I forgot this place even existed. Can't wait to get there this summer/fall.

meclimber

Trad climber

Dover, NH

Apr 12, 2010 - 03:32pm PT

I'm lame guys, sorry. I got nothing to add. The eliminate would of had some good ones and likewise with the roof on jacobs ladder would have made for some spectacular shots. Chloe, fiddler looks great. Do you climb the corner or the face to the left of it to get up to the roof pitch.

I actually need some beta on a nice point and shoot. I would love one in general for around here, plus I have a valley trip coming up that I wouls love some pics from. Who uses what and why?

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Topic Author's Reply - Apr 12, 2010 - 03:47pm PT

For Fiddler on the Roof we climbed the bolted face just left of the big corner, eventually
crossing over the corner at a black streak to reach the belay roost. That black streak
was soaked and slimy -- A0! The 10c face was dry but exciting.

meclimber

Trad climber

Dover, NH

Apr 12, 2010 - 04:39pm PT

Do you get to belay before the roof or do you go to the top in 1 pitch?

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Topic Author's Reply - Apr 12, 2010 - 04:51pm PT

We belayed on the little ledge just under the roof, above the corner. It's short enough
that you might link it all in one pitch, but the tradeoff could be rope drag on the balancy
moves above the roof.

Jim E

climber

away

Apr 12, 2010 - 04:53pm PT

...but the tradeoff could be rope drag on the balancy
moves above the roof.

And what a balancy move it is!

meclimber

Trad climber

Dover, NH

Apr 12, 2010 - 05:56pm PT

ha, my partner who led the last of jacobs got bound up passing the roof and had terrible drag on the last section just before the anchor.

Jim, eric, where does science friction start, on the common unicorn ledge? We had talked about it last year when we did wonderwall (kinda did).

Edge

Trad climber

New Durham, NH

Apr 12, 2010 - 06:14pm PT

John, it starts from the same ledge as Last Uni, but well left of it. Just right of where Wonder Wall takes off the ledge you truck up and right, then follow the bolt ladder. After that, immaculate moves up and right to finish left of the Unicorn.

Super fun and intricate.

slabbo

Trad climber

fort garland, colo

Apr 12, 2010 - 06:17pm PT

Science friction is a total classic with any finish. A way brave lead by Doug BITD. I like the 5.11 finish done by Ed, i have not done the direct 12b.
Anyone done centaur ? Classic 11a r-ish bold on sight.

How about SBD - South Buttress Direct AKA Silent But deadly ? It's really not that bad at 11c ao RR !

cowpoke

climber

Apr 25, 2010 - 07:13pm PT

Yesterday, I got to hang out with Jim E and Maxine at Whitehorse. My family had ditched me for a few days, so I was psyched to crash their daddy-daughter weekend.

It was a beautiful day and even better company.

We started with Sliding Board, which Maxine has done before (check a few pages prior for some shots of her toping out).

Here's the daddy-daughter team before our launch:

Motoring up the first pitch, while daddy gets an upper body workout trying to belay at the speed she climbs:

At the first belay Maxine got out her camera for some pics. She is the photographer for her school yearbook.

Jim on the skyline of pitch 3:

And, the summit, with Mt Washington in the background.

Daddy and daughter headed back to the base for some lunch.

The day was about half done, but Maxine was just getting started. The glory shots are still to come...

Zander

Trad climber

Berkeley

Apr 25, 2010 - 10:50pm PT

Daddy and daughter bump. Looks like some fun being had.
Z

cowpoke

climber

Apr 26, 2010 - 09:23am PT

Looks like some fun being had.

Yep. It was a memorable day.

After some lunch and text messages to my girls -- they were stuck in Connecticut traffic as we lounged in the sun -- Jim put up a top-rope on the Ethereal Buttress (photo credit: Maxine):

The Daddy asking, "Do you remember what I taught you about climbing cracks?"

Checking things out:

and firing (check out the right toes caming in the pod!):

and a few seconds later, Maxine's first 5.10:

After a few high-fives, her second 5.10:

Planning some full family get-together-adventures and revelling in Maxine's day, I was thinking about how good it is to be a good dad. Jim is a great climber, but he's an even better dad.

slabbo

Trad climber

fort garland, colo

Apr 26, 2010 - 09:32am PT

See any loose junk above Ethereal ? There was rockfall a little while ago.

cowpoke

climber

Apr 26, 2010 - 09:35am PT

We didn't see anything remarkable up above (not such a great vantage point), but there was plenty impressive evidence at the base, including a tree (~15" in diameter) that was split in half from top to bottom.

cowpoke

climber

Apr 26, 2010 - 09:51am PT

Pate, we did Sliding Board, which heads left and above the Standard Arch. I hadn't done it in years, but it was a blast paddling next to Maxine, who at one point on the first pitch looked over at me and said, "It's easier if you don't use your hands. Just walk up." Then, she showed me how.

Edge

Trad climber

New Durham, NH

Apr 26, 2010 - 09:53am PT

Pate, Sliding Board is a 5.7 mostly independent route that only follows Standard to the start of the arch then heads left and up. One of my favorite of the slab routes, and with a short bit of vert up high.

Nice job Maxine! Well done by the adults also.

Jim E

climber

away

Apr 26, 2010 - 11:38am PT

Another great Whitehorse outing with great partners. Maxine is usually shy at first with new people but Cowpoke put her at ease right off and we all had a fun filled day.

Probably the second most amazing thing about the day, after Maxine's mad skills, was the fact that even though we arrived at the base after 10:00 AM we did not have to wait behind any other parties. We cruised up the cliff in a sub 3 hour time to arrive first on the summit ahead of all other parties including those that started before us.

Maxine goofing around on p2. It amazes me she is so comfortable with the height above the ground.

The usual mank.

Cowpoke on the last steep bit. (Photo by Maxine)

Maxine self portrait.

cowpoke

climber

Apr 26, 2010 - 11:59am PT

Yeah, with blue skies and the black flies not yet biting, maybe allergies were detering the crowds?? Echo with swirling pollen:

tradchick

Trad climber

Vermont

Apr 26, 2010 - 12:39pm PT

Strange weekend indeed...where was everybody?

Tomcat and I went to Oscar on Saturday and had the entire cliff to ourselves.

Sunday we were on the Thin Air Face for half the day and only saw 2 other parties.

No bugs at Oscar or Cathedral and basking in the sun both days.

meclimber

Trad climber

Dover, NH

Apr 26, 2010 - 03:20pm PT

We did the south but. on sat, we got a little late start and there weren't too many people in the lot. Crowded when we left though. Got back on the eliminate again, got worked again!!! I did however get the bottom crux on the second pitch clean this time, but kept on flubbing the upper crux leaving the corner. In other words I now have 2 bail anchors on this pitch!!! Ended up taking a good fall on the first pitch after kicking a piece out going by the roof, oops!

Went over to cathedral after to work on an OW project of mine, when we had crazy rockfall off below retaliation, that came all the way down to the bryce trail. Rumor is that it may have been ems guides dragging a rope on the upper ledge, but just speculation and heresay.

TrundleBum

Trad climber

Las Vegas

Apr 26, 2010 - 03:51pm PT

Wow cowpoke:

I took one look at that last pic and thought:
"What's all the yellow/green spooge in the water?"

Pollen 'eh ?
Man mercy too the ones with allergy prob's

Great photo ;)
Makes me think of Ed Sklar sitting out there in the afternoons, in his lawn chair with a 6 pack, supposedly doing research for his thesis !

Andy Middleton

Trad climber

Cow Hampshire

Apr 26, 2010 - 04:21pm PT

Pretty sure everyone was skiing on Mt Washington... at least it seemed like it.

Jim E

climber

away

Apr 26, 2010 - 04:23pm PT

We later saw some dude swimming back and forth through the stuff. At first we thought it may have been a doggy but later decided it must be a person because they kept swimming lengthwise across the lake.

divad

Trad climber

wmass

Apr 26, 2010 - 04:39pm PT

Loch Echo Monster?

TrundleBum

Trad climber

Las Vegas

Apr 26, 2010 - 04:40pm PT

Speaking of black Flies:

The 'Defender of the Wilderness'

I love Bill Staines' music and I have been going to see him perform since I was about 8 yrs old.

Here is a great song for you New England folk about to experience the explosion of the piranha of the air.

Bill Staines singing 'The Black Fly Song'

slabbo

Trad climber

fort garland, colo

Apr 27, 2010 - 09:37am PT

You guys got about another week or so and then BLACK FLIES !!!!! Ya wouldn't suppose that any chemicals from the damn golf course leech into the lake ?

Morgan

Trad climber

East Coast

Apr 27, 2010 - 09:41am PT

Isn't that early for the big pollen clouds. I thought that usually happens in mid-june?

cowpoke

climber

Apr 27, 2010 - 12:26pm PT

Loch Echo Monster?

we didn't consider that one...

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Topic Author's Reply - Apr 28, 2010 - 03:00pm PT

Will there be a multi-daughter TR in the future, from the Cowpoke and JimE crews?

Based on my limited experience with multi-niece climbing, I recommend a noncompetitive venue!

Very nice, guys.

Edge

Trad climber

New Durham, NH

May 16, 2010 - 05:42pm PT

A TR of amazing insight and Whitehorseness will follow... I promise. There will even be pictures, if you read that far or (if you are wise) you exercise your index finger scrolling skills. Be careful, though, there may be valuable coupon links hidden in the otherwise boring text.

Well, long story short, I have not climbed multi-pitch in a dog's age due to a variety of factors, namely a turf toe injury that basically prevents me from edging on the left toe. And by "basically," I mean completely.

RICE isn't helping, and it's been six months. Web searches don't help; they describe the injury in three different diagnoses, all of which seem to heal themselves in three months. I hear about this injury primarily from professional football players, and it is always quantified by the "the team is doing everything to remedy the situation ASAP" bullsh#t.

Why don't these pro football teams describe what they do to help the fallen turf-toers??? Why?

Also, I lied about the "valuable coupons" bit. In fact, you could win a yacht.

Anyway, I have had enough couch surfing, graduation ceremony attending, and Red Sox losing to push myself over the brink. Dammit, I was going climbing, and there was a valid partner just one town over. I e-mailed, he e-mailed, then I e-mailed, then he e-mailed, and somewhere we found a date that worked for both of us.

Um, not a date. A climbing engagement. The former would be gross.

Anyhow, I had not climbed Standard since the day I brought my then 7 year old up. She is now 21 and if my math skills are still sharp, that makes it 34 years ago. But I digress.

Josh is a young dad and husband who had not done Standard. Thus, a likely victim.

From the well-named "Launching Pad" Josh followed my brilliantly linked flakes, solution pockets, and head-pointing on the first pitch. The guidebook only gives it a 5.2, obviously written by sport climbers who fail to find bolts and are spiteful. It is full-on 5.12, and they know it.

I belayed at the famous "Toilet Bowl" belay. I don't know who coined the phrase, but I still to this day want to have this view of me, only I will be sitting down, pants around my ankles, with a Playboy splayed open. For the articles.

Yes, for the articles.

Josh at the Bowl.

"Second verse, same as the first, a little bit louder and a little bit worse..."

The Standard Arch sings a siren song like Lady Gaga, or perchance a five car accident. You know you don't want to look, and yet you do. "Damn you, Gaga!"

After rubbernecking for long enough, we hit "Lunch Ledge." Being a guy, I did not write down directions, and refuse to ask about them. In fact, the route looks as impossible as "Realization," except the prospect of me dynoing to solution pockets on a slab makes me a bit wonkers. If that is not an official word, then it should be.

Me acting happy to be here. I am decidedly pooping.

(WWDD???)

(What Would Devo Do?)

I take a picture of my cool, calm, and collected belayer/partner.

Ganstas wear their hats like that, and so I am reassured. His will is a Glock.

*This is the part of the route where we killed chickens, hanged trees, and sent licken and moss to their maker. Take that, Beotch!

OK, I got a bit carried away there. Anyway, we surmounted the overlaps.

Everyone, and I mean everyone, take a summit shot with Cranmore, Echo Lake, and the Norte Conway Shopping Plaza in the background. We chose to photoshop in a fictitious, snow-clad mountain.

Several days trek lead (* I used "lead" here instead of "led" because of the previous Glock reference...) us to the paved paradise where they put up a parking lot at the golf course. I like, golfers, really I do, but only when properly seasoned.

We had no less than 6 parties following us up the route. In a past life I would have thrown chalk balls at blank spots in overlaps to throw them off our trail, but I have grown.

I now insist my partner pendulum over and rake them with 28" finger scars that end on and over an edge.

Perfect partner for a full-on fun day of Whitehorse slab goodness.

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Topic Author's Reply - May 16, 2010 - 09:22pm PT

A fine day it was for Whitehorsing around!
Although I'd have thought that with a bum toe, 8 pitches of friction might have hurt?

Edge

Trad climber

New Durham, NH

May 17, 2010 - 07:54am PT

Although I'd have thought that with a bum toe, 8 pitches of friction might have hurt?

True, and I am paying for it today, but I couldn't stand being away from the crags any longer. I still can't edge on the inside of my left foot, but smearing "en canard" and edging on the outside of the left foot made it possible. I am still a long way from being able to return to routes like Last Unicorn or Hotter Than Hell.

Jim E

climber

away

May 17, 2010 - 08:01am PT

Edge wrote:

I still can't edge...

A sad irony.

slabbo

Trad climber

fort garland, colo

May 17, 2010 - 09:25am PT

Keep at it Edge- soon you will be up for Sliding Board and you will have gone full circle in only 30+ years !!!

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Topic Author's Reply - May 17, 2010 - 11:56am PT

I still can't edge on the inside of my left foot, but smearing "en canard" and edging
on the outside of the left foot made it possible.

When my right leg went to hell a few years ago, I developed the belief that there were
"left-footed climbs," and tried to concentrate on those.

TrundleBum

Trad climber

Las Vegas

May 17, 2010 - 04:49pm PT

I find this pic' timeless:

Gott'a love those White mnt's.
Biggest, little peaks in the world perhaps.

Love that, tee shirts with snow on Mnt WashTub in the BG!

Looks like you guys had an enviable day in the hills.
Thankz for the TR.

sportcamper

Trad climber

east gone west

Jun 17, 2010 - 07:14pm PT

Bump!
Found myself in north conway today after a job interview-

Anyone out there in tacoland around whitehorse or cathedral?
If so..climb fri,sat or sun!!!

Weather is looking better!!

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Topic Author's Reply - Jul 30, 2010 - 06:54pm PT

So, what should you climb on a hot summer day, when your fitness and skillz are near zero?

Cowpoke and I had never done the Girdle Traverse of Whitehorse, but it sounded like fun.

The first few leads, starting up Beginner's Route, are so easy we practically ran up them.

As a result of that smart strategy, we felt overheated and tired by the start of pitch 3.
With 18 leads still to go.

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Topic Author's Reply - Jul 31, 2010 - 10:25am PT

The Girdle Traverse starts to go sideways on P4, tripping from Beginner's Route Direct across to the thread belay on Standard Route. Pretty granite all around.

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Topic Author's Reply - Jul 31, 2010 - 10:28am PT

From Standard Route's thread belay, Cowpoke led a traverse out toward Sliding Board.

From Sliding Board, an R rated pitch (P6) led across to a belay just below the Wedge buttress.

By this time it was really hot.

slabbo

Trad climber

fort garland, colo

Jul 31, 2010 - 10:43am PT

Did you guys finish ? it must nave been blazin' on the south Butt. Nice climb, I have done it several times.

TrundleBum

Trad climber

Las Vegas

Jul 31, 2010 - 12:05pm PT

Slabbo:

Did you guys ever do the 'Big Plum' or 'King Crab' ?

slabbo

Trad climber

fort garland, colo

Jul 31, 2010 - 07:01pm PT

Ya- Big Plumb once with the late Karl Mallmen. 34 pitches ? Took us a LONG day , about 15 hours. 10+, except for the first move, Recluse which is 11a. Lot's of rope work ans other shenanigans.

Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

Jul 31, 2010 - 08:04pm PT

Sounds like a length challenger to the Trapps traverse at the Gunks!

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Topic Author's Reply - Aug 1, 2010 - 10:45am PT

Eric led P7, an undercling past a wasps' nest.

This completed the first 1/3 of our route, which had crossed all the classic lines of the Whitehorse slabs. The next 1/3, which from below looks like a stroll across tree ledges, had a totally different and more dangerous character.

The tree-ledges section is mostly easy climbing, short vegetated slabs or walls separated by bushwhacking or winding through trees. What made it serious was the great amount of loose rock. It wasn't that much danger to us, but to any people below us -- like the class of youngsters we could see and hear on the first pitch of Dike Route, hundreds of feet below.

I've spent many days climbing the clean, short routes below this area -- climbs like Waiting for Comeau, Short Order, Man's Best Friend, Future Shock, Seventh Seal, Beelzebub and many others -- perhaps the most concentrated and varied collection of clean short trad climbs in New Hampshire. Most of these routes, you rap off after a pitch or two, avoiding the unappealing tree ledges above.

What I never realized until we crossed this section on the Girdle Traverse is how much unstable chaos rests amid the trees overhead. Countless tons of scree, talus, stacked and barely balanced blocks hangs above all those clean, crowded short climbs below. Some places we found signs of recent rockfall. There was no safer escape, so we crossed through trying our best not to dislodge any rubble.

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Topic Author's Reply - Aug 1, 2010 - 01:28pm PT

cowpoke

climber

Aug 1, 2010 - 05:26pm PT

we need more pics of the guy who got me up in that tree.

cowpoke

climber

Jun 29, 2011 - 11:40am PT

Of Inferno, Ed Webster says “A route to be savored, even on a hot day.”

At 5.8, it’s also “…one of the most popular adventures on the entire South Buttress.”

Monday, however, we had the entire South Buttress to ourselves – it was a hot day, but after a rainy week we savored it and Inferno.

Danny, taking us up to the Inferno corner:

Ken, on that same pitch:

cowpoke

climber

Jun 29, 2011 - 11:43am PT

Danny, on pitch 2, agreeing that 5.8 fingers to hands is darn fun:

cowpoke

climber

Jun 29, 2011 - 11:47am PT

And, Ken's headed for the topout, a bushwack down, a swim in the river, and beers:

cowpoke

climber

Jun 29, 2011 - 11:54am PT

Back at the last ledge before topping out, I had the opportunity to dangle my feet for a few minutes, savoring Whitehorse.

Edge

Trad climber

New Durham, NH

Jun 29, 2011 - 12:35pm PT

Looks like a fun adventure!

cowpoke

climber

Aug 23, 2012 - 07:40pm PT

A busy Thursday at Whitehorse bump...the parking lot was packed
(Tessa digging into the pineapple, yum)

...and so were all the moderates.

I wanted to do beginner's with the kids, which we got rained off a few years ago. But, I realized it now feels below the girls when they started calling it "extreme hiking while lugging ropes."

Cooling in the kanc after extreme hiking.

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Topic Author's Reply - Aug 23, 2012 - 08:08pm PT

Nice day! Extreme hiking indeed, shoulda took 'em up Interloper.

I realize that we never did finish the Girdle Traverse TR.

Sierra Ledge Rat

Mountain climber

Old and Broken Down in Appalachia

Aug 23, 2012 - 09:09pm PT

My partner Tom Tucker and I did our first ever multi-pitch route on Whitehorse Ledge back in the mid 1970s.

Not really sure what route we did - we just roped up and started climbing. Looking at topos now I think it was the Standard Route. I just remember being really scared, not much pro, and climbing up through a double overhang. Was that it?

Here is a photo of Tom as we topped out, circa 1976 or 1977. We were, like, 16 or 17 years old. Can't believe our parents just let us drive up to the NH for a weekend of climbing.

cowpoke

climber

Aug 24, 2012 - 09:08am PT

shoulda took 'em up Interloper

And, make them lead it...because daddy would be too scared! I'll lead pitch 1 and 3, if Chiloe takes 2 and 4.

I realize that we never did finish the Girdle Traverse TR.

Maybe we are still on that darn thing, bush whacking and lichen scampering.

Don Paul

Big Wall climber

Colombia, South America

Aug 24, 2012 - 09:38am PT

Thanks for the TR, this was one of the places I learned to climb and I'm glad to be reminded of it.

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Topic Author's Reply - Aug 24, 2012 - 09:59am PT

Maybe we are still on that darn thing, bush whacking and lichen scampering.

I like that image. Or sitting on the penultimate ledge, still waiting for strength to crawl up that last pitch.

Edge

Trad climber

New Durham, NH

Oct 22, 2012 - 04:18pm PT

Yesterday I went into Whitehorse ledge to find virtually every route wet or seeping except for the one we wanted to get on, the Hotter Than Hell to Inferno link-up. Perfectly cool Fall temps and colors.

I hadn't done these routes in 25+ years, and lucky me I got the sharp end on all four pitches.

I used to camp off an old logging road in a quiet spot in the middle of pristine forest somewhere around the two small sand traps in this pic. Restore the forest! Burn the McMansions!!!

A party on "Hotter Than Hell" on the appropriately named Tranquility slab.

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Topic Author's Reply - Oct 22, 2012 - 04:22pm PT

Lovely pics, Edge. That's definitely one of the fun routes on one of the funnest parts of the cliff. I always get high breathing in the afternoon views from up there.

Sierra Ledge Rat

Mountain climber

Old and Broken Down in Appalachia

Oct 22, 2012 - 05:01pm PT

I did my very first multi-pitch route, ever, at Whitehorse when I was 16 years old.

Whitehorse has a special place in my heart.

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Topic Author's Reply - Oct 22, 2012 - 05:24pm PT

And since this thread has come 'round again, I'll give away the old story's ending. Cowpoke and I did complete the Girdle Traverse back in 2010, on that hot July day.

We were plenty wasted sliding down the rope at day's end.

perswig

climber

Oct 23, 2012 - 08:26am PT

Pretty pics, Edge. I envy you your HTH day!
Was that crux move into the notch a bit weepy? Always raises the ante a little.

And for some reason I really like that last awkward Inferno pitch, although none of my partners seem to share my enthusiasm. Hmmmm....

Dale

Edit: yep, there's been some chatter about Longstack on NEClimbs, with a reference to the MP database, I think. My summer's been full of 'should go' and few 'did go' places, but the locals seem excited about your new routing, so it'll get added to the top of the list. Glad your new trajectory is working out.

Edge

Trad climber

New Durham, NH

Oct 23, 2012 - 09:33am PT

Dale, the whole route was dry except for one little seep down low on HTH and moving into the vertical crack/ flake on Inferno, both pretty easy to step around. Virtually everything else on the cliff was a soggy mess. For what it's worth, I didn't find the move on HTH into the niche to be nearly as bad as I remembered. Pretty casual actually if you just commit to it without over thinking it.

My partner enjoyed Inferno's last pitch immensely, although I found the feet to be a bit slick; still I didn't think it was an 8, felt more 7ish to me. Outstanding positioning though, and an uber classic link up for sure, made me wonder why I hadn't been on it again for so long, but with all the other stone to be climbed around here there is never enough time to do it all. I spent almost all year developing and new routing on Longstack Precipice, which is phenomenal and only 15 minutes from my new rental home. You should check it out; full route lists and grades are on Mtn Project under the heading "New Durham Area."

perswig

climber

Oct 23, 2012 - 01:55pm PT

Pretty casual actually if you just commit to it without over thinking it.

Nicely describing a lot of climbing, and a fair bit of life.
Dale

The Lisa

Trad climber

Da Bronx, NY

Oct 23, 2012 - 10:54pm PT

I missed this thread the first time around so am enjoying it now.
I climbed there for the first time this year (eaten alive by black flies Memorial Day weekend). I had never climbed/walked up slab before and the runout pitches of the Standard Route were a new experience. I was much happier leading the arch on P5 with the excellent crack.

slabbo

Trad climber

fort garland, colo

Oct 24, 2012 - 09:39am PT

Yo Edge- you must remember when HTH didn't have the last bolt ? Matt was pressured into placing one final bolt because of the "runout" !

I did the traverse WWAAAYY back, my first multi pitch route with Tommy C