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T2
climber
Cardiff by the sea
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Topic Author's Original Post - Jul 16, 2009 - 10:51pm PT
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Was climbing at Tahquitz about 4 or 5 weeks ago and was doing "Mr Slate." climbed through the 10d crux with no problems got up even with the anchors for "Human Fright" I took a nice rest there before climbing out right with a long reach on easy 10- moves. Something went wrong with my right shoulder while reaching and pulling over to the right. I was not able to finish the climb. My shoulder ached on the drive home and I could not sleep for the next couple of nights due to serious discomfort in my shoulder. (still suffer from not getting good night sleep)
Now after numerous Dr visits, xrays and a MRI looks like surgery is the only way this Torn Labrum is going to get better.
Doc says 6 weeks in a sling and 4-6 months recovery time.
Anyone here had this same injury or surgery?
P.S. I ment to say suffered in the title by the way
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T2
climber
Cardiff by the sea
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 16, 2009 - 11:50pm PT
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Hey how about that. I do remember these post's by maculated now.
Thanks Ed
Maculated your story gives me hope, but what I don't understand is how you went 5 years from injury to surgey? I am in constant discomfort. I can't climb, surf, ride my bike or motorcycle with out pain.
Wow now that I read into these threads seems this is some what common with climbers.
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Footloose
Trad climber
Lake Tahoe
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Jul 17, 2009 - 12:08am PT
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Can I ask how old you are, T2?
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Karla
climber
Colorado
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Jul 17, 2009 - 12:12am PT
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I had a SLAP II repair on my mine about 8 months ago. Best advice if you need the surgery, do it, be religious on your rehab exercises, and don't push it when coming back.
For whatever reason, my strength came back very quickly...muscular endurance, that's a whole other story. My ROM most likely will not be the same. I have hyper-ROM from being a gymnast way back when, but even with my current active life-style I won't be pushing my shoulders like I used to. So, the one shoulder will always be a little tighter. I'll take that over pain anyday.
It's so hard to compare surgeries, as there are so many variables: how you handle the initial surgery, tolerance to pain, when your doc starts you on rehab...
The true test comes soon for me soon, myself and The Mission are off to play on The Hulk & Conness in 2 weeks.
Give me a shout if you'd like to talk in detail.
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T2
climber
Cardiff by the sea
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 17, 2009 - 12:14am PT
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I am 45.
Doc says I am fit but my age could slow the recovery time some.
Nice Karl. Thanks! Have fun in the mountains
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Karla
climber
Colorado
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Jul 17, 2009 - 12:29am PT
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Hey T2, I waited WAY more than 5 years to get it done. Back then the surgery was really invasive, so I opted for rehab & cortisone injections and climbing hadn't entered my life, so I thought I was ok to let it ride.
After I was gloriously hooked on climbing many years later, I compensated greatly on my other arm or was very creative with my climbing, so to bypass certain moves. However, I was always worried that that it would just completely rip out and it hurt after every time out.
45? Get it done and go have fun. It's a bit scary, but then so is climbing...sometimes:)
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KP Ariza
climber
SCC
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Jul 17, 2009 - 01:50am PT
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T, sorry to hear about it man. Either way I am sure you will recover as strong as ever. Hope all else is well.
KA
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James
climber
My twin brother's laundry room
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Jul 17, 2009 - 02:30am PT
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Ethan Pringle, a serious rock climber who began cranking at Mission Cliffs at the age of 8, has redpointed Realization in Ceuse, France, bouldered Dominated,a v13 in Camp 4, Yosemite Valley, Ca, and fired the Cobra Crack, a 5.14b/c traditional route in Squamish, British Columbia. Unfortunately, Pringle suffered a debilitating injury that has kept him away from the crag.
Earlier this year, while bouldering at Nationals in Boulder Colorado, Pringle felt a tear in his left shoulder. With a shooting pain that left him unable to climb, he consulted a few Bay area specialists. An MRI revealed a tear in the labrum of his left shoulder. After a few months of hoping his shoulder would heal, Pringle opted to have arthroscopic surgery. The doctors stitched his labrum back to the bone and now Pringle is waiting for the fusion to take hold.
Pringle is beginning light physical therapy for his injury and hopes to be climbing again by the fall.
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gimmeslack
Trad climber
VA
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Jul 17, 2009 - 07:58am PT
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I was diagnosed with minor Labrum tear/damage resulting from hanging on a gym .9 with arm completely outstretched. No surgery recommended, but a couple of months of taking it easy and religious adherence to PT exercise routine.
I've since made it a practice to watch my "hangs" very carefully. I also find it extremely helpful to do my exercises which only take 15-20min with a rubber band thingie...
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T2
climber
Cardiff by the sea
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 17, 2009 - 08:55am PT
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Kenny: Thanks buddy, been talking with the kid says he want's to get the youth brigade together this winter in JT. You in? Maybe I'll be back on the stone by then.
James: I hope Jason's recovery is 100% he is a talented young climber. Sounds like he is going thruough exactly what the doc discribed to me.
Gimmeslack: I was hoping that would be the case in my situation, but no dice even started PT but could not carry on due to the pain.
I guess what concerns me most with this whole thing is not the fact of having to go through the surgery and PT. I have confidence in my surgen and know I will be back on the stone and in the ocean in due time. It is the fact that I need my arm to swing my hammer, so I can bring home the bacon. Being out of work for that period is no good. My body is my main tool in the tool box and it will be in the shop for repairs. Thats what sucks. Oh well we will deal. On that note my wife and were discussing this last night and my 13 year old daughter who is doing some baby sitting this summer teels me "Dad I will contribute my baby sitting money I earn this summer to the cause. I won't be needing it for anything really" My heart felt really good from that.
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reddirt
climber
Elevation 285 ft
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Jul 17, 2009 - 10:35am PT
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firstly, you have an amazing kid.
secondly, If I didn't have pictures of my surgery, I would not believe there was anything ever wrong nor that I had surgery. I have mosquito bites & other shoulder scars that are much bigger than the arthroscopy holes. I had a simple tear, no biceps tendon involvement. I do have a friend who has a completely severed biceps tendon (short head) who climbs/takes on 12's.
I was in a sling for no more than a month & pretty much after the 2st week, only in public. The sling was more of a warning to others not to bump into me. But at home I kept it off. Movement of the post surgical shoulder reduces risk of frozen shoulder.
Surgery to trad climb time: maybe 13 weeks?
synopsis (not spraying, just reassuring you can & will be back a your preinjury climbing levels):
Nov 2006: nagging rt shoulder pain.
Dec 2006: PT/MRI (pre surgical PT can make post surgical recovery quicker)
Jan 17 2007: SLAP repair
Jan thru April: PT 1+hr/3x/wk.
mid March: gentle gym climbing
mid April: moderate trad leading (seneca 7's)
end of April: Sushifest : )
since then: still kinda doing minimal PT (w/10lbs resistance,less than 20 mins/week, more like 5 min sessions: open the door, drawing of the sword, anything that strengthens the rotator cuff & is opposite motion of climbing motions)
I got back up to leading trad 8's, taking on trad 9's, clipping bolts on 10's & a few 11's until other issues (back surgery Dec 08). After the shoulder surgery I also stopped doing big dyno's when clipping bolts. After all I didn't want to risk ripping out the anchor they stich the labrum to. Little dyno's are ok. Sometimes I'll see a big move & think about surgery recovery times & then yell "take". By now, the anchor in the bone has resorbed. My head still won't let me dyno though.
immediate (12-96 hrs) post surgery tip (wished I followed this for my shoulder surgery. I did do this for my back surgery & it made life *a lot* better: set an alarm that goes off every every 4-6 hours & take your prescribed vicodin/percocet/narcotic. I also recorded the time b/c it was just more idiot proof that way (too easy to ignore alarm which is very regrettable when you realize that you skipped a dose).
tip #2: get & take some "softeners".
Torn labrums won't resolve themselves & do require surgery. BUT many ppl can function w/ a torn labrum. Winter surgery minimizes recovery time that eats into rock climbing season.
Good luck & get well soon!
http://reddirtblogger.blogspot.com/search/label/torn%20labrum
edit: larbal tears often escape showing up on MRI's.
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G_Gnome
Trad climber
In the mountains... somewhere...
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Jul 17, 2009 - 11:34am PT
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Tommy, there are many climbers in the LA area that have had either torn labrum or torn rotator cuffs put back together in the last few years including Rich Grigsby (twice), Kevin Daniels, Kris Solem, Rachel McCollum, and Herb Leager. All of them went to Dr. El Attrache at Kerlan Jobe in west LA. All of them are climbing at full speed again. Tom Brady of football fame just had his fixed by the same guy. If you can go to who ever you want, he is very highly recommended.
Jan McCollum
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Footloose
Trad climber
Lake Tahoe
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Jul 17, 2009 - 12:09pm PT
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Hey guys, I've been follwing this thread.
T2, sorry about what's been going on. But all the feedback is positve, seems very promising. Curious, before your climbing incident, were their any harbingers, pointers, e.g., off and on crackling, cracks in the shoulder? Was the one problem shoulder acting any different from the other?
The aforementioned doctor sounds like the right one to check out, from all the feedback, so i've noted his name.
T2, I asked your age because I am 49. I started to get some snap crackle pop (or "crackling") moreso after pullup sets in a lifting gym. Wouldn't go away. So I backed off. Now no pullups of any kind for about 8 months now. Figured it might just be aging. So, not really sure. But biceps and back have taken a hit.
Reddirt, after repair of a torn labrum or rotator cuff, are full-length pullup sets prohibited, no longer wise? I ask because I've always been a pullup fan, as a way to work lats, biceps and shoulder together. Would really miss them. Would you ever do them now?
Thanks for any input.
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murf02
climber
NYC
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Jul 17, 2009 - 12:26pm PT
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I think your Dr. is hedging on the long end with recovery time.
Slap repairs for an athlete in general should not take as long as you say. It is very important to start the rehab process before the actual surgery, start with the small rotator cuff muscles. I've torn both acls (the unhappy triad on both knees)and have been back in business in 6 and 8 months.
I've also have an unrepaired slap tear that I've climbed on for 3yrs with a little pain after a long day. I won't be doing any one arm pull ups anytime soon and the Naked Edge will have to wait. I just got tired of surgery and rehabing all the time. The down side is perfect sleep.
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oldcragger
Trad climber
Truckee,CA
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Jul 17, 2009 - 12:29pm PT
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I had a nagging shoulder injury for years following a ski fall. Couldn't train hard but it wasn't bad enough to follow up on. It finally worsened after a hard bouldering session. MRI showed a SLAP tear and partial bicep tendon detachment. I had the surgery in October. It was 3-4 months of aching pain and limited range of motion where I wondered if the surgery was successful or worth it. Now, my strength and flexibility are better than they were for years. ROM is still not 100% but I am very glad that I had the surgery. Just be diligent with the PT and be patient. Also, lots of ice. I had to have a cortison injection 2-3 months post surgery because the swelling never reduced to where I could rehab effectively.
Michael
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Inner City
Trad climber
East Bay
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Jul 17, 2009 - 03:33pm PT
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T2,
I had the torn labrum procedure, called "Bankhardt" or some similar sounding thing after dislocating the shoulder on the classic east face of Castle Dome in Castle Crags (that was a wild adventure)
The surgery went fine, recovery was fine with a lot of PT. Problem was, a year later, I blew out the pins which were used to repair the labrum, while playing TENNIS! Ack!
Now I self-limit the recurring dislocation by avoiding activities that expose the shoulder(arm up)to recurrence. My caution is simply that the surgery and rehab itself is not enough--it may work, but your caution afterward will be the only real solution to not having the problems recurr.
Hope that helps...
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T2
climber
Cardiff by the sea
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 18, 2009 - 11:49am PT
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Thanks for all the input guys.
It sounds as though this is a common issue with climbers. It is good to hear that full recovery is not an unrealistic expectation with proper pt. I am also glad to hear that the recovery time that was told to me buy my Doc is conservative. I had a hard time chewing the 4-6 months thing.
I wish I had more control over who I can have do the procedure or I would certainly talk with this guy that has fixed the other climbers. But with the way my insurance is, I am kind of locked in with the Med group I am in. I am comfortable with my Doctor I have expressed over and over how important climbing is to me.
As far as getting it done I do believe I am going to wait until late fall to have it done not because of the climbing season but because I think I am about to come into a couple of descent jobs that will allow me to take the time financially more comfortably. The bummer with doing it in the fall is I can't climb right now, it just bothers me that much. Maybe I am getting soft with my age but any reaching type motion is f*#ked for me.
Thanks again for the input you guys, talking with the supertopians has eased my mind some.
I hope you guys are getting out climbing this summer!
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Melissa
Gym climber
berkeley, ca
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Aug 20, 2009 - 05:23pm PT
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I have 7 climbing friends that I know of who have had major shoulder injuries (rotator cuff and/or labrum).
4 (J included) were advised to do PT and see if it would be "good enough". They all still outcrank me by miles, but 1/4 couldn't heal on this path. Surgery revealed a much greater tear than the MRI.
4 have had surgery. Three are as good as new, and one has some frozen shoulder issues.
J tore his at the same time I tore my ACL. We both got about 4 opinions each and heard very different things from the different docs. Even if you are stuck w/ one doc for the surgery should you choose to do it, it doesn't hurt to talk to other docs as well.
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