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henny
Social climber
The Past
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Topic Author's Original Post - Jul 13, 2009 - 01:28pm PT
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Hot. Apt name for John's route at Suicide, even still today.
EDIT - Can't believe I spelled the route name incorrectly in the title, of all places. Doh, transposed the letters. Make that Caliente.
I was in the area late yesterday so I went by and sat at the base of Caliente for awhile reflecting on the elegant line and it's author. As much as I'm into the history of Idyllwild, and Suicide in particular, I never did talk firsthand with JB about Caliente. Something I now regret.
Looking at the timeline, Caliente was done in 78 and given 12a. I suspect that rating was driven by 1) JB's concept of difficulty, and 2) the glass ceiling of face ratings at the time. It's a little debatable how hard it really is, but today it's called 12c. Regardless, no matter exactly how hard it is - it's harder than 12a which makes it even more impressive for the year it was done. But it's more than just technical difficulty as it also requires commitment for some runout climbing.
I'd like to hear about two things. One, the pre-FA history of the route, and second, the day JB did it.
Ricky stated that KP and I scoped the line and put the first bolts in. In reality, neither KP nor I can make that claim. In fact, in contrast to Ricky (ha) I recall him roping me and a few other unsuspecting victims into going over and lobbing off the thing with him one day while it was still under construction.
So who started the route? I vaguely recall hearing that Sorenson was involved in starting the route. Any truth to that? The initial sporty 5.9 moves seem like something Tobin would do. Who drilled that awful spinner bolt that protected the crux for so many years? And even more so, how the heck did it ever get hand drilled considering how steep it is there. I think I recall hearing that was Grahams handywork. True?
And then, along came JB.
Ricky, since you were there - What's with the absence of bolts after the one off the knob above the crux? I recall hearing something to the extent that there was only one bolt left in the bag and JB's solution was to run it so he could save it for the belay. Was that true or was he already in the no bolts are the best bolts mode? I also heard there was a very big whipper when he came off getting into the corner. Of course, the story is that he went right back up and sent it - which I would have to believe.
When he punched the thing through to the top he drug the face climbing standards up a level or two with him. The route is one of those where the day you do it for the first time will stick in the memory banks. You have to rise, even in 2009, to the level of the bar that JB set way back in 1978.
For my part, I have no trouble conjuring up the vivid memory of the first time I stood on the moves at the end of the runout above the intrusion. I can still recall alternating between marvelling at JB's commitment and berating him for forcing me to do the same. And then finally having to commit to getting to the base of the corner, where I knew, just knew, I would have to stand on thin holds while I fiddled a small wire in. All the while looking at a big plummet. What a great route. And in large part that level of greatness is due to John's signature on it.
Anybody else done it and have any memories of it that seem to stick out?
I wonder how often Caliente gets done. In all the years I've climbed at Suicide I've only seen two parties on it, ever. One was a strong French climber that got completely shut down on it and the other was when some skinny little Brit (yeah, him) sent it. What a shame if it's not getting done. It would have to be in the top five of anybody's Idyllwild list.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Jul 13, 2009 - 03:10pm PT
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I followed E on the second ascent, if that's what it was: 'prolly '78.
I'll let him sort the details.
Can't remember how cleanly, with or without falls: my recollection is that he more or less fired it.
I seem to remember "getting up it" with hangs, falls or tension.
Mike Paul has done it on lead.
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Largo
Sport climber
Venice, Ca
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Jul 13, 2009 - 03:46pm PT
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I think I either did the third of forth ascent of Calente.
The route starts on that ledge and there was a bolt already fixed there, I believe by Couch around 1970. I vaguely remember you had to get a nut in and then move up and right onto some really stellar 5.10 face climbing on great black and orange rock. Richard Harrison and I put in all the bolts up to the headwall (I could have sworn that Ricky A. was along as well), but at the time (likely about 1973 or 74) we couldn't figure it out. Half a dozen years later, Ricky A. almost got it before Bachar and he went back on the FA.
The headwall part is hard because it has a bouldery reach off that right hand Gaston to a gnarly heave off a sloper. Very steep for Suicide. Yet for me, the leading crux was that thin shite above the headwall. It looks way harder than it is (10d??), but it's sort of run and scary.
Once you get to the arch it eases to about 10b/c. But get this: When JB first led it, he didn't have anything that fit the crack in the arch, so he just ran it to the top.
Put that in you pipe and smoke it.
JL
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henny
Social climber
The Past
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 13, 2009 - 05:11pm PT
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I wouldn't doubt E did the second ascent. (paging E...)
Height could make a difference. The crux has a couple of real nasty reaches if you're under 6'. My guess is that if you're under 5'10" it could even be a big problem.
There's a bolt halfway up the arch that has always been there, as part of a belay anchor. Didn't John place that bolt? If I remember correctly a 165' rope will not reach the top from the initial belay, so 2 pitches were required until longer ropes came along. It could explain the bolt if he didn't have gear that fit.
Edit - maybe John found a way to make a 165 reach and the bolt got added as part of the Sunburst variation that joins Caliente. Perhaps Ricky can remember if JB belayed up there.
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rmuir
Social climber
the Time Before the Rocks Cooled.
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Jul 13, 2009 - 06:23pm PT
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Rick talked me into following him in an exploration of Caliente sometime in the mid-seventies. ...not too sure about the chronology—was it after JB led it (and Rick wanted to lead it)—or was it before the FA? I'm guessing it was already completed at that point. Rick took a few falls on the headwall, and I went up to look at it also. A pretty half-hearted attempt on my part since the face below the headwall kinda felt like a sloping ledge compared to the headwall, and I wasn't too keen on falling onto a "ledge". Damned small crimpers and really long reaches! Too hard for us that day...
I was certainly impressed that anyone had pulled that off! A real testament to JB—a remarkable revolutionary.
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Rick A
climber
Boulder, Colorado
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Jul 13, 2009 - 07:23pm PT
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Henny,
You're right, I now recall with John's prompting that it was John and Richard who put the bolts up to the headwall.
I made the second lead that summer right after JB did it and got the sequence on the headwall right away. Amazing what a difference it makes to have the knowledge that a route goes.
I'll try to answer your other questions when I have a bit more time.
Rick
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E
Social climber
Tujunga CA.
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Jul 13, 2009 - 07:37pm PT
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I recall belaying Rick on this route -second ascent?
I must of made the 3rd ascent
plus many other ascents of this route
first time with Roy during that same summer
I think that it was rated 11+ same as The Reach
Erik
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henny
Social climber
The Past
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 13, 2009 - 08:04pm PT
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11+???
The same as The Reach?
Dude. That's sand.
Got a good laugh from me though.
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Largo
Sport climber
Venice, Ca
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Jul 13, 2009 - 08:12pm PT
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You know, I don't know who the hell came up with that 5.11+ for the Reach. We were never quite sure who did the first free ascent, since EE, RA and I seemingly did the thing on the same day or something. Anyhow, I always thought it was mid-12, like a cranking hard Rubidoux problem, and not no one-move wonder, neither, but a burly sequence off not much.
I always wondered about the Tobin/Bachar/Lewis route just to the left, called Black Harlots Layaway. I never did it but it looked good and hard. You ever do that one, Henny?
JL
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henny
Social climber
The Past
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 13, 2009 - 08:50pm PT
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Yes I have John. The Black Harlots is another of those overlooked, underrated, and neglected Tahquitz routes that is every bit worth doing. Too bad people are missing out on such good routes. I on-sighted it (but barely) so it was even better.
I think there are two ways to do it, follow the curving flake/seam, or like I did, clip the bolt, move left, then up pure face. Thin techy moves with a bit of a penalty fall at the end. Always wondered if staying in the seam would have been easier.
I'd bet E has done it also.
The Reach - interesting history about who did it first. I think that route must fit my style of climbing since I don't find it nearly as hard as something like Caliente. Good comparison BTW, it is exactly like Rubidoux bouldering. Still, I thought it was a little harder than Black Harlots. If the Harlots is 11d, then the Reach could be called harder.
Both of those are really good routes.
There's just no way I can see the Harlots, the Reach, and Caliente all at the same grade. Something is amiss there.
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Jul 13, 2009 - 08:54pm PT
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something is indeed amiss here. i'm gonna need a wheelbarrow to move all the big fat sandbags stacking up around my computer...
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dogtown
climber
Cheyenne,Wyoming
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Jul 13, 2009 - 09:58pm PT
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It’s for sure JB’s signature route at Suicide. In my opinion, as I stated before in a previous thread This is a truly Sick route! What a great monument to the one of the best climbers of our time.
Bruce.
Photo ripped off from MP. Sorry Henny if it's one of your's.
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E
Social climber
Tujunga CA.
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Jul 13, 2009 - 10:12pm PT
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Hensel
Yer stirri'n it up man
I too have climbed the Black Harlot's-pretty hard for 11+
Caliente-named after a Gato Barbieri tape that Bachar was listening to then
Reach was sent with Rick Accomozzo-each putting in redpoint ascents on same session(route worked with Long on Previous weekend)
Erik
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henny
Social climber
The Past
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 13, 2009 - 10:45pm PT
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something is indeed amiss here. i'm gonna need a wheelbarrow to move all the big fat sandbags stacking up around my computer...
It's E's fault. The only rating he knows is 11+. He's used that on me more than once.
Bruce, that isn't one of my pictures. My only comment would be that it's not a pitch up to the first set of belay bolts. The circled 2nd belay should be the first one. And then there's some controversy about whether there should even be a circled belay in the arch at all. I can remember one there since who knows when. C'mon guys, pull it back into focus...
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Jul 13, 2009 - 10:53pm PT
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Nice. I was waiting for a route pic....pretty sick indeed!
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dogtown
climber
Cheyenne,Wyoming
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Jul 14, 2009 - 12:09am PT
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Henny;
It was the only Photo I could find of the route sadly ( sh#t no photo’s of my own ) I remember the Belay being at the Base of the headwall and the biz got going after that. Just making it to the headwall is badass! Kind-a like the route to the right (But shorter and not as notorious) But still reel tricky and steep and, then a bolt that is or was not that good and funky pro in the arch If I recall ?
Bruce.
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henny
Social climber
The Past
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 14, 2009 - 01:19am PT
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The arch doesn't take much gear. There's the good wire right at the start of it, then nothing much until the bolt at halfway. By the bolt is a spot that takes some gear, so a belay is possible. Then very little again to its end. Even with gear that fits there's just not much.
The bolt protecting the crux was a pretty bad spinner. Not surprising considering how steep it is there. That would have been a tough one to swing the hammer on. -- The bolts have all been replaced.
Most people probably finish the crux by throwing at the knob, which yields kind of a diagonal fall unto the slab below as Robs mentioned. I liked JL's description: "...a bouldery reach off that right hand Gaston to a gnarly heave off a sloper." Yeap, that would be it.
It would be nice if there were some action pictures of it around.
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Largo
Sport climber
Venice, Ca
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Jul 14, 2009 - 02:46am PT
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I also remember that pic of Henny, right at the end of the big Gaston move. What he´s pulling for is crap, and he`s got a hard open hand move after that one to get anything good. That`s what makes Calente so good - no chance to frig or hangdog it. For being over 30 years old, this one in infrequently done, though modern sport climbers would find it not so hard, but run.
JL
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dogtown
climber
Cheyenne,Wyoming
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Jul 14, 2009 - 02:59am PT
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Then why don’t they do it ! Or the other old school routes at their picking at this world class crag?
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henny
Social climber
The Past
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 14, 2009 - 11:18am PT
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I -think- the mentioned picture might have been in the issue of Climbing that had Woodward doing the Pirate on the cover. Our man Eppy took the pic.
Lucky for us we don't have it around. I still can't figure out what the dude was thinking wearing that awful shirt.
No, we need a climbing shot of Caliente that doesn't hurt our eyes.
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Largo
Sport climber
Venice, Ca
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Jul 14, 2009 - 12:36pm PT
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About 25 years ago I did Calinete with Brother Gaines. We were looking at trying to go straight up after the thin run out face bit before the arch - something we never completed. But I think we might have gotten some shots. Let me pester Bro. Gaines.
JL
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henny
Social climber
The Past
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 14, 2009 - 12:40pm PT
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Go for it JL. Post 'em if ya got 'em...
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midarockjock
climber
USA
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Jul 14, 2009 - 02:21pm PT
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I'd enjoy seeing the route again.
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Levy
Big Wall climber
So Cal
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Jul 14, 2009 - 02:24pm PT
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I did the route in 1987 with Matt Oliphant. Largo was there encouraging me to give the thing a go so I did. I fell once at the crux but lowered down, back to the top of the ramp, and did it next try. I recall a tough move on crimps, just over the lip of the steep bulge. The fall was clean, nothing to hit, but you do impact the ramp a bit but no big deal really. What Darryl said,I am only 5'10: but I do have a + 3" ape index. It seemed like I couldn't reach much higher. I recall doing some funk slab move & then I belayed off some mank setup higher. Matt did it with a fall or two but he did all the moves pretty quickly & we were at the top!
When we did it, Largo was jacked!! He was super stoked that we did it. I didn't realize what a reputatation the route had so I was pretty much oblivious to what we had just pulled off. I later went back to do it again & I couldn't touch it. The crux section was like trying to climb the walls of a tile shower enclosure, super thin & greasy/slopey. It may have been too hot for a proper send.
Around this time Matt & I had done both Black Harlot's & The Reach, which we thought to be 5.11d & 5.12a respectively. The Reach had a lunge from twin razors with one foot on a sloping, black knob & the other pasted on nothing. It seemed much harder than Black Harlot's but less continuous. Caliente was harder than either of those by a good measure.
I can't say how hard for Caliente is for certain but 5.12 seems correct. Let people haggle over the minutia of 5.12b vs. 5.12c. It is temperature dependent, height dependent & talent dependent, etc. It stands out as one of the better routes in Idyllwild, in my opinion.
The vision shown by those who scoped the line & thought it looked do-able, was pure genius. The talent to do the moves & drill a bolt above must have been an exercise in pure terror. The developers of the routes at Suicide showed their mettle in the bolt spacing on those routes established during that era. When I go back to those routes today, the runouts seem much more scary than they did back in the day. Has sport climbing made pussies out of us, with their bolts every bodylength? I did Rebolting Development, 5.11a last year and the runouts on the first two pitches seemed pretty stout. I never remember being so heads-up to do those moves before.
Good stuff by any standard!
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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Jul 14, 2009 - 02:29pm PT
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so am i the only one who didn't climb this frickin thing?
levy, good to know that you could whip there and not lose an ankle. slapping back onto that slab looked really iffy to me.
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henny
Social climber
The Past
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 14, 2009 - 03:33pm PT
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You actually end up landing ok on the slab. Kind of surprising because it does look like it might be funk, but when it happens it's like, well, that wasn't bad.
Levy said:
Around this time Matt & I had done both Black Harlot's & The Reach, which we thought to be 5.11d & 5.12a respectively. The Reach had a lunge from twin razors with one foot on a sloping, black knob & the other pasted on nothing. It seemed much harder than Black Harlot's but less continuous. Caliente was harder than either of those by a good measure.
Word.
I recall doing some funk slab move & then I belayed off some mank setup higher.
What a relief. Finally, somebody that can remember they belayed up there. I was starting to get worried about you guys...
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Capt. Buzzkill
Trad climber
Northridge, CA
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Jul 15, 2009 - 12:41am PT
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Leventhal's recollections are pretty accurate. I remember that Black Harlot's and The Reach were way doable and I flashed both. Caliente seemed several letter grades harder and I couldn't touch one move on the lead due to its reachy nature (at 5'8" and a negative 2 ape index). Levy, after one fall, lowered to the rest stance and sent it. I gave him some sh#t about not lowering to the base but his performance on the upper part of the pitch (moaning, with bad pro) was stellar. This route, and no doubt its neighbor Someone Your Not, will not see many flashes during our lifetime.
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Levy
Big Wall climber
So Cal
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Jul 15, 2009 - 02:41am PT
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Welcome to the Taco, Matt!
I love the handle you've chosen, too funny!
Hope to see more of your insights & humor here soon.
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E
Social climber
Tujunga CA.
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Jul 15, 2009 - 10:51am PT
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Do you not hear the call of the Caliente? (Gato Barbieri sax wails faintly in background)
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Grant Meisenholder
Trad climber
CA
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Jul 15, 2009 - 11:24am PT
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A few years back, I had the pleasure of following the route with my favorite ropegun Stuart. He was climbing at his peak and decided the route would be a good tic mark for the day. Now he knows his Suicide history, so I'm sure he knew what he was getting into. I, on the other hand, was just sitting fat and sassy at the belay thinking it was just another pleasant day to be out.
It was taking unusually long for him to top out, so I yelled up to him a few times to see what the problem was with no answers forthcoming. Finally I heard "off belay" and waited for him to tell me to climb. Another significant period of time passed and finally I got the go ahead.
I didn't pay too much attention to the finer details of the climb. I do remember it being a bit of a huff, but being on toprope, I had no fear.
I finally reached the top and found Stuart wide-eyed & still breathing hard. He proceeded to tell me about his near-death experience at the top of the runout where his foot blew out and he was saved by the sheer strength of his middle finger. He wrote a gripping TR, but I seem to have misplaced it. But I do remember that he was severely impressed.
We then went over to try Disco Jesus. That didn't go as successfully. No injuries or major whippers, but we did reach the second belay before he ran out of gas.
Wish he was still on the west coast to lead me up some more horror shows...
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henny
Social climber
The Past
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 15, 2009 - 12:17pm PT
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The Siren Song from Caliente is reaching out. You do hear that Sax, don't you... Stop and listen, you won't be able to resist.
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henny
Social climber
The Past
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 17, 2009 - 10:48pm PT
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A request for somebody to produce said photo of Henny from way back when please.
Since no one seems to be posting up any action pics, I'll scan the picture Greg Epperson took back in 87 so people can get a feel for the route. It was part of an article on Suicide/Tahquitz in Climbing magazine. Not sure how well my scanner will do, but I'll try.
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henny
Social climber
The Past
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 17, 2009 - 11:12pm PT
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Close. At the knees. That's getting started on the first reach of the crux. The next bolt is a couple body lengths higher. Then comes the more run-out climbing.
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dogtown
climber
Cheyenne,Wyoming
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Jul 18, 2009 - 12:54am PT
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See Darrell;
I knew you had a better shot!
Mr. Humble.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Jul 18, 2009 - 01:43am PT
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That's a very classy photo.
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Zander
Trad climber
Berkeley
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Jul 18, 2009 - 05:24pm PT
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This is a good thread. That is a great photo. Anyone have some more?
Zander
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dee ee
Mountain climber
citizen of planet Earth
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Jul 18, 2009 - 08:38pm PT
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I like the shirt. I'm wearing something similar as I type.
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henny
Social climber
The Past
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 20, 2009 - 03:12am PT
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DE...
Hey, that shirt was the ticket. Although I'm still not sure where it was going.
Bachar would have had to do the route in EBs.
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