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nick farley
climber
bishop
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Topic Author's Original Post - Jul 11, 2009 - 02:28pm PT
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Some of you might find this interesting. Here in the Gunks today an ABC news crew is getting footage of a local "climber" doing some free soloing for the use in a piece about rock climbing, free soloing, and probably tying it in with death of John Bachar. Yesterday, ABC news called my guide service for help and to provide a climber, I declined. The same ABC guy called all over the local community here in the Gunks asking a lot of questions, looking for some monkey to free solo for the benefit of ABC news.
Everyone I spoke with yesterday had likewise declined their involvment out of respect for the memory of John, John's family and friends, the pursuit of free solo climbing, and just the general public perseption of climbing.
Well, the manager of the Gunks local EMS guide service did actually take the ABC news crew out this morning. The Mohonk Preserve would not give permission to ABC news to do the shoot on their property. They are reported to have gone to Minnewaska State park. The manager of the EMS guide service is expected to free solo for the shoot.
Everyone that I have spoken with is very dissappointed with his decision.
If you happen to catch the ABC evening news tonight I believe it is supposed to air. Please know the majority of our climbing community wanted NO part of participating with ABC news on this story. I doubt it will be geared towards honoring this hero to so many of us.
Nick
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jul 11, 2009 - 02:32pm PT
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Thanks, Nick. The most recent posts to the "John Bachar - In Memory of a Great Man" discuss this, in terms of when the program will be on. It appears that whatever they run will be on ABC affiliates in their late afternoon news today, perhaps 5:30 - 6:00 local time. Let's hope that it will be informed, respectful and dignified, and that the news media hasn't been harassing John's family and friends. I'm not very hopeful, but we'll see.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Jul 11, 2009 - 02:46pm PT
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I look forward to a whole new generation of Americans with the concept of "free climbing" as climbing without ropes.
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dustonian
climber
Foresta
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Jul 11, 2009 - 02:58pm PT
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Ha ha, EMS has gotta be one of the lamest "guide services" in the country!!
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apogee
climber
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Jul 11, 2009 - 03:02pm PT
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Corporate based 'guide services' (i.e. EMS, REI) = usually well intended but woefully sub-professional.
Not sure if I want to watch that piece or not- it is sure to make you wince (or worse).
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Social climber
valley center, ca
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Jul 11, 2009 - 03:03pm PT
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Let's hope for the best.
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Roughster
Sport climber
Vacaville, CA
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Jul 11, 2009 - 03:25pm PT
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I have said it previously, free soloing and the eventual result of it NEVER bodes well for climbing access. I am not saying death either, the sensationalization of it either in success or failure portrays climbing as a much more high risk activity as a whole than it really is.
You think every land manager who watches the upcoming piece is not going to be concerned...
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Porkchop_express
Trad climber
the base of the Shawangunk Ridge
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Jul 11, 2009 - 03:32pm PT
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I have no idea what the story will turn out to be, or what ALL the various "commercial" guide services are like, but knowing several of the Gunks EMS guide service personally, I can attest to their skill and professionalism. Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. Or do. Just saying.
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sully
Trad climber
CA
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Jul 11, 2009 - 04:52pm PT
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If Tom Brokaw is behind the story, it might not be so bad. He narrated and his daughter produced Verticle Frontier: Rock Climbing in Yosemite (2002). Brokaw has mountaineered with Chouinard.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jul 11, 2009 - 04:57pm PT
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"I have said it previously, free soloing and the eventual result of it NEVER bodes well for climbing access."
We should discuss this another time. For now, I'll only observe that as climbers, we ALL free solo at times, and we ALL take risks. And as humans, we ALL take risks. Some are quite open-eyed and rational about assessing risk, some not.
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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Jul 11, 2009 - 05:50pm PT
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It's a dilemma: Participate and risk having your involvement edited down into something horrendously stupid and possibly counter-productive; or stay away and let someone else try to shape the story to their own ends.
Not an easy decision.
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bhilden
Trad climber
Mountain View, CA
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Jul 11, 2009 - 05:52pm PT
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Mighty Hiker,
you missed the point :-) Sport climbing is basically a riskless endeavour unless you or your belayer screw up and that is more negligence than risk.
One of my buddies who did some very hard FA's of some routes in Tuolumne said it best. "Manage risk? Tolerate risk? When I did hard routes, I embraced risk!"
John Bachar lived an incredible life and one reason for that is that he embraced risk.
Bruce
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tom woods
Gym climber
Bishop, CA
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Jul 11, 2009 - 06:00pm PT
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I'm with KLK, if you know what you are talking about, be forceful and upfront with the reporter and producer especially. They don't have a lot of time so the simpler you can put something the better.
This piece sounds doomed. You want to talk free soloing? Talk to this new kid Honnold, talk to Croft, talk to Potter...who are these guys talking to? If they want to talk about Bachar? If this is an end run to talk about Bachar, it sounds like they are barking up the way wrong tree.
I don't apologize for my profession. Journalist are just as likely to be wrong than right.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jul 11, 2009 - 06:05pm PT
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"Sport climbing is basically a riskless endeavour unless you or your belayer screw up and that is more negligence than risk."
Lower risk, yes. Riskless, no.
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tom woods
Gym climber
Bishop, CA
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Jul 11, 2009 - 06:37pm PT
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chances are, they will get wrong.
what's their thesus? free soloing is dangerous? really? should we go live with this?
i sure hope they don't write bachar into this mess.
what's the moral? people shouldn't free solo? that's fine advice for most of humanity.
there is no moral to bachar's passing. the equation had changed due to an accident and he hadn't re calculated yet. there is no way for anyone to understand that except a tiny few.
lord i hope they don't tie this story to bachar, but you know they will.
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Maysho
climber
Truckee, CA
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Jul 11, 2009 - 06:53pm PT
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I was hoping they would have and rerun some archival footage. Weren't some of those old shows run by ABC, like "Thats incredible" or David Letterman? There has got to be some cool old soloing footage in the vaults somewhere. Otherwise, its the media, no use getting your panties in a bunch, we are used to climbing being depicted strangely, maybe/hopefully someone soulful will get some air time, talking about what John meant to the sport.
Peter
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jul 11, 2009 - 06:58pm PT
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Peter, there is some archival footage of John climbing posted on YouTube - look under "John Bachar". Posted by Ed Hartouni. I put some links in the main Bachar thread.
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crankenstein
Trad climber
Louisville, CO
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Jul 11, 2009 - 07:11pm PT
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Just saw the piece on the news and I must say that I thought it to be very unbiased and no judgment was passed on the sport or the man. It would have had more credibility with me as a climber if some well known climber had been involved instead of an unknown (to me) "climbing instructor" but it was tastefully done none-the-less.
RIP John
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tom woods
Gym climber
Bishop, CA
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Jul 11, 2009 - 07:50pm PT
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a more interesting topic would be calculated risk in many sports, with free soloing just a small part.
what other sports lay it all on line like soloing, runouts, high altitude mountaineering?
I get bugged by all the judging, who gets after dale earnhardt for dying in car wreck. they practically made him saint. Are there parallels?
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tom woods
Gym climber
Bishop, CA
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Jul 11, 2009 - 07:59pm PT
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That was a confusing post, skip the Dale Earnhardt parts, but hwat other sports lay it all on the line for recreation? That's the better story, how do you calculate the risk. I bet soldiers do it all the time, but they have to. The parallel is sport.
I had my boy on my lap, so it was one handed typing.
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cintune
climber
the Moon and Antarctica
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Jul 11, 2009 - 08:11pm PT
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The Ehrnhart thing is fair game, why not? I was thinking too about all the so-called "extreme" things people do all the time, comparitively speaking and get a complete pass. Plain old downhill skiing'll kill ya too. No safety ropes there. Or just walking out the door in the morning. Objective and subjective risks are all around us, all the time.
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tom woods
Gym climber
Bishop, CA
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Jul 11, 2009 - 08:17pm PT
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right, so how come soloing gets a bad rap? where's the line? maybe there isn't one who knows, but it's an interesting question.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Jul 11, 2009 - 08:42pm PT
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I think it's because people feel threatened by others who take risks that they see as unnecessary. I think it's a fear reaction. "That is scary to me so I must denounce it." There is certainly an element of ego for some people. I have had numerous experiences of soloing on climbs or on peaks where other "climbers" said mean things to me because (in my opinion) they simply felt threatened that someone was soloing on a route that they felt challenged on with a rope.
The best was on SAR in 1999 while soloing Cathedral Peak. "You can't be on the same route as we are. There's no way. Why....why really....you are just being reckless. It is people like me who end up having to rescue people like you." An hour later of course I was back in the Meadows and he was probably one pitch higher on the peak. I took a variation well away from him and his partner so that they didn't feel like I was climbing over them, but that didn't seem to irk him any less.
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sully
Trad climber
CA
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Jul 11, 2009 - 08:45pm PT
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Just caught ABC promo before commercial: "It killed their pioneer, so why are they still climbing?"
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jstan
climber
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Jul 11, 2009 - 09:08pm PT
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A promo has to be a sound byte designed to keep the channel selector
unclicked during the advertisement. Question is, did they find an appropriate
answer to their question?
More generally:
When a propositions like these come up it is important how pressed for time
they are and how responsible the news organization is. If they are really
pressed for time you may be able to make a deal. In this case you might specify
there will be no demonstration of someone falling and no other possibly
dangerous activity. For instance no soloing at substantial elevation with all
depictions down very near the ground. Indeed for soloing i would require
footage shows the climber down climbing.
Also if all of the verbal input from you is along the direction you think
important they will have little else with which to work - when pressed for time.
If the news organization is responsible they may keep their bargain. It has
happened. I did once suggest I could agree and then drop out leaving them
hanging. Jim advised me with his best lawyerly monotone, "You don't want to
do that."
As has been mentioned when these things are forced upon one it is a tough
call. On the positive side it does give you a chance to learn how to handle
these things.
There is no 100% win.
Edit:
The post below suggests this was brought off responsibly.
Now for the hard stuff. Why does ABC think someone getting killed is newsworthy?
And if we bring this off and keep it low key, do we really want to condition
ourselves and the public to accept free soloing deaths?
Do we accept it?????
More than 500 posts suggests we have some reservations.
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murcy
climber
San Fran Cisco
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Jul 11, 2009 - 09:10pm PT
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The segment seemed harmless to me, and the focus on "what makes free soloing worth it, if anything?" is inevitable, given that that's the question that 90% of the viewers will have on hearing about what JB was famous for. Nice footage and images. It seemed respectful enough, and with fewer blunders than I expected.
I recorded it off the air, in case that's of any use to anyone.
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Jul 11, 2009 - 09:14pm PT
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hey there say, please forgive me if i am being rude... but in a way, from what i've accidetnly learned, i really think these news-show guys are just wanting the money for a big story to cash in on this subject being "up for play".... unless i am really off base here, and i appologize...
meaning, as you have noted, it seems that they have seen that john bachar is a big name, so they figure to draw on it...
(i usually never prejudge this way, but i have seen this happen to many times and it is very sad for the folks that really wanted a true story shown---the stories are never for the good of the "big name" or the person that in spotlighted (i appologize, now, if i have made a mistake, as i surely don't see that many news-stuff nowadays, as i have no tv cable and we don't get stuff out here, without)...
well, the story-reporters, they perhaps may put a few good notes so not to cause a riot, but that seems to a small say, only... the real families and people have so much to say, but it is "edited out" and they are later shocked, or, what they said has been twisted or worded wrong... makes one afraid to talk to reporters, or the news-shows...
hmmm, i always wondered why they have to keep what the real folks say, unused---i mean, they are getting the money for their work-pay, why must do that??? is it 'cause they say, sometimes, that it is due to "air time"---but that does not seem to be a reason to twist words, does it, or change the affects of them?... :(
well, just sharing what i learned due to some epilepsy stories and such, that had needed to be in the news, when folks needed support, but they turned out to be changed, in the end result, or canceled, when folks needed to keep some info private, such as names, etc of family members...
and also:
i learned this back from when lane frost died... the regular media didn't even know WHO he WAS, 'til they saw the huge impact his death had, and how much he was loved.... then, they sought out the bull riders, etc, and such...
also, they did that movie, but never stayed true to his life or what his folks wanted...
they even showed his death, (even more off-base than twisting words) by displaying him saluting the crowd, after turning his back on the bull, (as being vane-glorious, or naive, or as the folks outside of the bullrider's circles, would say: as stupid) since this behavior would naturally be leaving himself open to die from lack of getting out to safety....
that ending of the movie was NOT true at all, if anyone has seen the true footage...
sure was done not for favor of bulls riders... :(
so---only TIME will now tell, tonight, what will be shown.... but say, all.... i wish and pray that something GOOD will come of it... we can at least to do that much...
*** as with lane frost, he FOLKS turned a lot of that around for good, since the "limelight" fell on them----and NOW THE TRUTH is getting out, to erase the harm that the movie did...
not sure if folks will think any better of bull riders, than rock climbers, though... they are very different breeds of folks, in both "sports" (edited so mighty hiker and all will understand--meant that, as a physical activity, not "sports" hahahaha)(yeah, sure don't want to push that word wrongly), or live-styles, rather, as you all well know...
well, i was just sharing., as i saw that you all shared, here.. and i sure never say this kind of stuff usually, but i figured it might help folks that may come here to read (out of curiousity), to perhaps do more study on the folks that do these "free solo climbing" to get a more full-up story....
so ending all my say, here, it is very hard for me to understand why these news-folks do this kind of self-views from self-vision stories, being that they will get paid anyways, for their job...
all for now... sure hope i didn't misalign someone, as i now news-reporters must work hard and love their families, too...
god bless...
say---let us know how all this turns out, folks...
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Jul 11, 2009 - 09:17pm PT
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hey there say, murcy... WOW... that was a fast result... oh my...
well, say... then it sounded like all went well... oh, that would be a big step forward in being more open to report all aspects of the folks being "spotlighted" or the "situration" etc...
thanks for the shares.... oooops, i reckone i shared for no reason, now....
god blesss.... :)
ooooooooooop, wow, now i just saw what sully posted...
hmmmm... well, i will leave this suject alone... it is beyond my field....
god bless...
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jul 11, 2009 - 09:24pm PT
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It seemed like a reasonable piece to me - I have some experience with climbing and the news media.
I quibble about their calling climbing a "sport", and was amused when then said that John "never" placed any bolts. Otherwise, there were no howlers.
As with the obituary in the New York Times, it's fitting that he was commemorated. Short of a substantial piece, there's no way to really sum up someone's life with a few pictures and stories, and do the person justice. Look at the volume of posts here about John over the last week.
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jstan
climber
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Jul 11, 2009 - 09:31pm PT
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The no bolts thing suggests, as did Anders earlier, that supertopo is being used by people doing research for stories.
We might keep that in mind.
It is not only news organizations that will be lurking here.
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dfrost7
Social climber
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Jul 11, 2009 - 09:40pm PT
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My only crit is I think it would have been a better story done in Mammoth, Bishop or Yosemite. It was missing a certain "feel" because of this. Yes, it would have been better with another solo climber, but the guy interviewed was pretty unbiased.
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Porkchop_express
Trad climber
the base of the Shawangunk Ridge
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Jul 11, 2009 - 09:50pm PT
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i couldnt find it...i guess i got thrown off by the time delay. is there a link to it?
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Grant Meisenholder
Trad climber
CA
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Jul 11, 2009 - 10:06pm PT
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I have it and am converting it to an iPod compatible file that's about 12 MB if anyone wants it.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jul 11, 2009 - 10:15pm PT
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Here's the link to the article at ABC Worldwide News on-line:
http://abcnews.go.com/Travel/story?id=8061175&page=1
It parallels the television piece, though they spell John's family name "Bacher". (Patrick?)
I don't know if/when they'll actually post the piece - not until after it's run everywhere it normally does, I suspect.
jstan provided an important reminder that SuperTopo is not a private place.
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Porkchop_express
Trad climber
the base of the Shawangunk Ridge
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Jul 11, 2009 - 10:15pm PT
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Oh yeah...i read that bit. I was hoping to see the video bit. I was a bit disheartened to see the misspelling of his name.
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Curt
Boulder climber
Gilbert, AZ
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Jul 11, 2009 - 10:29pm PT
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Considering the piece was meant for nationwide, general consumption and ran for all of two minutes, I thought it was pretty good. There were the normal errors of course, like the one about JB never placing any bolts in the rock--but apart from that I quite liked it.
Curt
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jstan
climber
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Jul 11, 2009 - 10:39pm PT
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That the piece ( I don't have TV) came off with so few errors is quite probably because of supertopo.
When you read about Iran tomorrow, the same kind of thing may be in play.
Edit to avoid the bump.
Anyone scanning ST does not have to be a rocket scientist to realize this is where the sources are located.
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graham
Social climber
Ventura, California
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Jul 11, 2009 - 10:43pm PT
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It wasnt bad.
I wish things like this werent thrown together as indicated in the opening post (filming today). But its all old news now and I doubt someone will return to it to give in the time it deserves. I would agree they should have had an affiliate out west go deeper into the source. Although they my have been afraid of you guys.
If anyone thought this place was private think again. Stuff has been snatched off this site and distributed throughout the known universe.
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Dr.Sprock
Boulder climber
Sprocketville
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Jul 11, 2009 - 10:43pm PT
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they never asked me to climb, so screw em.
so what if i stepped on a bolt back in 76.
it was an accident, ok?
drop me to 5.11, sheesh.
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tom woods
Gym climber
Bishop, CA
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Jul 11, 2009 - 11:00pm PT
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It wasn't as bad as I thought. While boulderer doesn't pass the red squiggly line spell check, it does beat boulder climber.
As a member of the news media, I guarantee that reporters lurk here. It's a public forum. Hopefully they use this forum to improve their stories.
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nick farley
climber
bishop
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 11, 2009 - 11:19pm PT
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The story did not turn out that bad I agree, although with T.V. news the bar is currently set low.
I really wish that ABC news would have taken either the time or expense to contact and interview someone who could really translate to the public the gift that John's life brought to all of us. Maybe someday someone will.
I am frustrated with the media and the need to scare and shock us and get it out right away. On to the next story...
I am frustrated that everyone in my community didn't see it the way I did.
But mostly, I'm just frustrated that JB is gone.
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Dr.Sprock
Boulder climber
Sprocketville
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Jul 11, 2009 - 11:24pm PT
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Gone where?
People hang around a while, some others have probably experienced this.
Don't feel lonely, he reads all this, thats my belief.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jul 12, 2009 - 02:17am PT
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I just noticed that the introductory line in ABC's print version of the story is "Hanging by his fingertips from a 100-foot ledge..."
Awful big ledge to need to hang from.
It looks like ABC posts the videos the day after they're broadcast. They're at http://abcnews.go.com/video/playerIndex - the toolbar on the left lists "World News with Charles Gibson" - click on it and the dates for the last week come up. The articles broadcast on that day then appear at the bottom.
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apogee
climber
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Jul 12, 2009 - 02:43am PT
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Glad to hear the general consensus thusfar is that the piece wasn't as bad as network news TV is usually known for. Sadly, that's impressive all by itself.
When someone finds a link to the story (w/o the rest of Charles Gibson's newscast), please forward it on.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Jul 12, 2009 - 02:47am PT
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I did not see the piece, but I would be interested in seeing it.
Anders when you mention the misspelling of John's surname and then write (Patrick?) I assume that you are referring to the post of mine on the thread where I mention that one of the first rules of good journalism is to get the name right.
Damn straight. Shoddy journalism if they cannot get the name correct. Typos and misspellings are one thing, but ALWAYS get the name correct.
I don't apologize for my profession. Journalist are just as likely to be wrong than right.
Tom, in one way I agree with you, but on the other hand, NO, a good hack should try his/her best to get it right, though experience tells me that this can be difficult sometimes. I have worked on national newspapers, television etc, and sometimes, like anything else, mistakes happen. At least I am not a surgeon who cut off the wrong leg. And I have never been sued for libel (although I have been threatened with injunctions).
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Social climber
valley center, ca
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Jul 12, 2009 - 03:13am PT
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Been gone today. Wasn't able to view the tv thing. Speed read your posts just now....no horror stories reported and that's good.
Patrick, I worked as a journalist for a small newspaper with a great owner/editor....got paid, but not much. If I got my basic facts wrong he would have been......Very Unhappy. Peace, Lynne
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Mimi
climber
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Jul 12, 2009 - 03:15am PT
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The segment was lame and sensational, but it's hard to expect anything better from a major network. Serious flaws in their fact finding and overall composition. As usual, a big disconnect with regard to an understanding of climbing.
Why didn't they try and get the scoop from Rich Gottlieb? He soloed alittle, like Kansas City....He probably wouldn't want to talk to those jokers anyway. With good reason.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Jul 12, 2009 - 03:37am PT
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I'd still trust a journalist over a politician...
... but just (and I've been a journo for some 34 years in five countries).
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tom woods
Gym climber
Bishop, CA
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Jul 12, 2009 - 10:28am PT
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patrick- I have some sympathy for the reporter who walks into a situation he knows nothing about and walks out with a story at least as good as this ABC piece.
What I mean by journalists getting things wrong is systemic. You can have a completely accurate story that is entirely untrue.
I recently wrote one a story about our local politicians arguing over a flatulence tax for livestock. It turns out that there is no such thing as a flatulence tax for livestock.
Had I accurately reported the meeting, and presented the arguments, the reader would be left with the impression that the gubmint is so damn stoopid that they are going to tax cow farts.
I did some research on the cow farts, and now the local politicians hate me.
If your sources are full of sh#t, your story is full of sh#t. Sources can be checked, facts can be verified, but it takes time, which translates to money.
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Brunosafari
Boulder climber
OR
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Jul 12, 2009 - 10:29am PT
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We would all prefer a Ken Burns treatment rather than a two minute spot, but over-all, considering everything Ms. Sy did a pretty good job. I mean, she did a field interview of a "professional," she was only given two minutes of airtime, she actually strapped on a harness and hung by a rope, she avoided judgement but only posed a question. We should consider that she possibly had no previous inside knowledge about climbing and possibly had a limited amount of time and resources to do the story.
Of course, it is so disrespectful to get the name spelled wrong. That should have been double checked. Maybe it was the source. We should definitely ask for a correction of some kind, which I expect would make it to the web site.
Perhaps Ms. Sy will be given the chance for a follow up story and could interview some of the excellent and personal sources here.
Yes, we have a certain perspective and make distinctions about risk, but to pose the question about it, I expect would be considered essential by any general press editor. Climbers should think about risk justification and should not be threatened by the question, or the misunderstanding press and public. The rise of extreme sports has many people asking the question, and any parent instinctively will be hesitant to give Climbing a free pass. But like so many things, the real story (Bachar himself) is infinitely more interesting, and it remains to be seen if mass journalism can really step up to the plate. ...Say, the Home Run Derby starts today I think. (Better pump a zillion dollars into the media coverage...)
Given that she was unable to come West, I was glad for the great photos in the piece which speak louder than words. Thank you Phil, Karl, and others, for that.
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rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
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Jul 12, 2009 - 10:49am PT
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Y'know, we can quibble about the details and wish for something better, but the fact that JB got prime-time ABC air and a very substantial amount of space in the NY Times speaks volumes about his stature, which was big enough to surpass the exclusive notice of the climbing world.
I suspect there are very few climbers who would ever get this level of attention in the mainstream media. Maybe we should think of the whole thing as a lovely testimonial to John's greatness and move on.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Jul 12, 2009 - 11:15am PT
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"Maybe we should think of the whole thing as a lovely testimonial to John's greatness and move on."
I agree. I have to feel that John would have liked a nod on the national news when he made his exit, and this was about as good as it gets, given the medium.
Bad thing about journalism, the closer you are to the story, the more inaccurate the picture they paint seems to be.
Don't forget to apply equal skepticism to the news we get about everything else.
PEace
Karl
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Dr.Sprock
Boulder climber
Sprocketville
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Jul 12, 2009 - 11:45am PT
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journalism is a "catch all" for misfits and f*#k ups.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jul 12, 2009 - 12:16pm PT
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Thanks, Patrick. One of my simple tests for journalists is whether they can be bothered to spell my names correctly.
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Mimi
climber
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Jul 12, 2009 - 12:25pm PT
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Many of you are right, the main point is, the coverage of John's story by the NYT and ABC is a testimony to his greatness and impact he had on the climbing world and beyond. They did what they could on very short notice.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Jul 12, 2009 - 12:28pm PT
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Mimi- It doesn't need to be done on short notice though is kind of the point. It's not exactly a "scoop" kind of story.
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Mimi
climber
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Jul 12, 2009 - 12:42pm PT
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I agree with you HDJ. I wasn't going to go into it but Steve was almost finished with an excellent story for the NYT when their version came out. He took the time to get all the details about family, life facts, etc. One major criticism we have is that they didn't go very far in any direction to flesh out their stories about John. As I recall, ABC didn't even mention his roped climbing except for El Cap! And the bolt comment was ridiculous. Like someone said, we need to move on from this one.
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Jeremy Handren
climber
NV
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Jul 12, 2009 - 01:00pm PT
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Wow, I guess I'm alone in thinking that that piece was absolutely atrocious. My guess is that John would be cringing if he could have seen it.
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scabang
climber
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Jul 12, 2009 - 01:06pm PT
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JUST GET OUT AND CLIMB!
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Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
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Jul 12, 2009 - 01:29pm PT
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Here's the iPod-formatted clip Grant e-mailed me (320 X 240, H264 encoded),
which can be played in Quicktime, iTunes, or the multi-platform VLC Media Player:
http://files.me.com/oceandave/kyxmog.mov (12 MB download)
Thanks again to Grant for capturing, encoding, and e-mailing this clip!
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Porkchop_express
Trad climber
the base of the Shawangunk Ridge
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Jul 12, 2009 - 04:41pm PT
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The truth is that the majority of people don't "get" climbing. Even folks who are involved in hiking and skiing and other sometimes over-lapping pursuits frequently shake their head and are overheard saying 'whatever flips your skirt, I guess, but not me...'
Bearing this in mind why would we expect a report geared for such people to be done otherwise? The world worships Michael Jacksons and researches and glorifies them. The John Bachars of the world rarely enter their radar and it is more of a testament to what he means to all of the folks here that it is that way. Sometimes the world as a whole is cruel to beautiful things.
Maybe I'm completely wrong, but I am just trying to look on the bright side.
Steve
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JoeSimo
Trad climber
New York
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Jul 12, 2009 - 10:15pm PT
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Its always the same thing. If someone dies climbing everyone turns, points there fingers and says "See I told you so!"
But lets be real here. If someone dies of heat stroke playing football no one blames the sport of football for their death. They simply say it was a tragedy and could have been avoided.
I think climbing has always gotten bad press because it exists in that dangerous realm. I doubt any news story would take a climbers side. Sometimes I find myself saying to people "You don't understand, and there is no point in me trying to explain it to you"
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Social climber
valley center, ca
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Jul 12, 2009 - 10:47pm PT
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Jeremy, doubt John would cringe....pro just blow it off. jmo, lynne
Edit: It's not just climbing. I can remember being interviewed and then reading the articles for a variety of things over the years. I thought a quote was, well, a quote. Little did I know...
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Largo
Sport climber
Venice, Ca
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Jul 12, 2009 - 11:06pm PT
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Itīs not fair to hurried and unknowing journalists to deliver a knowing obit. If you need a good one, read this- http://www.mountainsandwater.com/
JL
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Fluoride
Trad climber
Hollywood, CA
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Jul 12, 2009 - 11:35pm PT
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Point is....the people who are assigned to writing about climbing deaths have no awareness of climbing or the sport itself.
I thought the NYT guy who knew nothing and was assigned to write Bachar's memorial did as good a job as possible.
One of the hardest things I've had to do in a long career in broadcast journalism was Michael Reardon's obit for my station's newscast.
Everyone in my newsroom knew I was bummed, Michael was likely dead. Some days later, the the LA Times planned to do a big obit on him and my station wanted to do a similar obit. I got called at home around 10a that day and requested I come in to field produce his story. WTF!!? I'm supposed to put his amazing life into a minute thirty pkg?? I had to do my friend's obit??
I was told interviews were set up at BoulderDash where he trained. I got there and no one wanted to go on cam. It wasn't until I had them pull out all the pics of him soloing that people wanted to start talking about him and how inspirational he was. I talked to 2 young boulderers who were really broken up yet were so inspired by Michael.
I wrote the script for his obit on the drive from TO back to Hollywood. The reporter who voiced it never met him or could remotely conceive of his lifestyle, but in the end I made sure that Michael's obit...at least on my channel...was as proud and true. I owed him that much.
I sat in during the entire edit session to make sure the piece was as remarkable as the person I was reporting on.
So cut climbing reporting a break. It's done by people who get an assignment on their desk. If they actually know anything about climbing, that's a rarity.
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reddirt
climber
Elevation 285 ft
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Jul 12, 2009 - 11:46pm PT
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NYT climbing articles are usually pretty decent or better. The publisher is actually a climber.
FWIW/OTish, stealing whatever thunder there may be from the free solo vs roped leading debate: this past weekend someone back east here took a leader fall at Seneca, his rope got cut completely through by a sharp flake, and he fell to the ground. I don't know much more other than that it too was a fatality.
Condolences to his family & friends.
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WBraun
climber
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Jul 13, 2009 - 12:44am PT
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The wheel has come full circle as if situated on a ferris wheel which sometimes goes up and sometimes comes down.
Only to begin again in the next birth entangled once more in the wheel of births and deaths, drawn on by the inextinguishable desire for sensual engagement.
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Social climber
valley center, ca
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Jul 13, 2009 - 12:54am PT
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To me we are given one life. It is our challenge and the Gift of Life to live it to the utmost.
Loving God and Loving our Neighbor as Ourself is the objective. Everything else is just gravy on the mashed potatoes....
Smiles once again and Cheers to someone who taught me that word. Lynne ....Peace, Dude.
EDIT: Thanks So Very Grant !
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jul 13, 2009 - 11:37am PT
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Monday morning place-holding bump, to be removed later.
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paul roehl
Boulder climber
california
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Jul 13, 2009 - 06:29pm PT
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Would be a good thing if everybody on this site posted something positive on the abc comments for this story. A lot of crap on there.
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martygarrison
Trad climber
The Great North these days......
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Jul 13, 2009 - 06:32pm PT
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Largo, the Peter Beal tribute really captured my feelings. John and I were never best friends or anything but his passing had a profound impact on me. I think it was the passing of the invincible, the end of an era of which he was so important in my life. My time in the Valley in the seventies and eighties shaped my approach to my life. John to me in the mid seventies was an arrogant son of a gun. In the last few years via this site, he showed himself to be a sensitive and wondorefull father and person. JB, you have no idea how many lives you touched.
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Unforgiven
Mountain climber
Dirt
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Jul 14, 2009 - 09:50am PT
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F U ABC news and all the little turds that claim JB was selfish, irresponsible, reckless etc...
Then the same goes with NYC firefighters that went into WTC building during 911, when it was about to collapse. Not 1 person dreamed of calling NYC firefighters selfish, irresponsible, reckless. get a clue abc
ABC I hope you get a Big Bag of D!cks!
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nick farley
climber
bishop
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 18, 2009 - 12:51am PT
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The sadness, from my perspective, is not how ABC news treated or mistreated the story of the passing of John Bachar.
Simply, the sadness is the news of John Bachar's passing.
Can we imagine the routes that he is sending now?
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JoeSimo
Trad climber
New York
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Jul 18, 2009 - 07:20am PT
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I dont think comparing Bachar to a 9-11 firefighter is fair at all. In fact its probably kind of offensive. I mean those firefighters were going in to directly save peoples lives knowing they might die. I dont think Bachar was climbing to save someones life directly, like a person was stuck on a ledge or anything.
If a firefighter ran into a burning building with one one in it just because he liked the thrill of putting out fires, what would you say of him then if he died?
Not putting down Bachar here I'm just saying...
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