Discussion Topic |
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JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
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Topic Author's Original Post - Jun 25, 2009 - 05:57pm PT
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Breaking JDF NEWS BREAKING
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TKingsbury
Trad climber
MT
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Jun 25, 2009 - 06:01pm PT
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much nicer than your original title...
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Ricky D
Trad climber
Sierra Westside
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Jun 25, 2009 - 06:06pm PT
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Only KNX Radio in LA and TMZ.Com is reporting death - all others news sources are saying cardiac arrest only.
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Trad climber
San Francisco, Ca
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Jun 25, 2009 - 06:21pm PT
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I'm no doctor, but some Jesus Juice should set him straight.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Jun 25, 2009 - 06:23pm PT
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Farah, Michael, who is the third?
condolences to all their families.
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Ricky D
Trad climber
Sierra Westside
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Jun 25, 2009 - 06:23pm PT
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KTLA Channel 5 LA now saying he is dead.
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Jun 25, 2009 - 06:24pm PT
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he wrote the book on how to rear your child
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Jun 25, 2009 - 06:24pm PT
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CNN sez, Coma!
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Ricky D
Trad climber
Sierra Westside
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Jun 25, 2009 - 06:25pm PT
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LA Times, KTLA, MSNBC - reporting MJ is a goner.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Jun 25, 2009 - 06:26pm PT
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Good point, fatty. At least they've all met...
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dirtbag
climber
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Jun 25, 2009 - 06:26pm PT
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Locker, it's one thing if he wants to be eccentric. The problem is that he molested kids.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Jun 25, 2009 - 06:27pm PT
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I hope his troubled soul can rest.
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t^r
Social climber
dancing with puppies
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Jun 25, 2009 - 06:29pm PT
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oh you guyz are so horibble he has suffred at the hands of little boys
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JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 25, 2009 - 06:30pm PT
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Michael is Alive, in Coma!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Jun 25, 2009 - 06:37pm PT
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Wonder which episode of South Park will play tonight...
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dirtbag
climber
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Jun 25, 2009 - 06:39pm PT
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Yeah Locker, a lot of weirdness to untangle there.
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stevep
Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
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Jun 25, 2009 - 06:44pm PT
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Trying to one-up Farrah. Shame on him.
If he's really dead, will they have to embalm him? He already pretty much looks as plasticy as Lenin.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Jun 25, 2009 - 06:52pm PT
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I've seen the plastic Lenin,in person, he had a more solid nose...
I don't know what MJackson is or isn't, guilty of. I don't want to know. What I do know is that he was an incredablly talented person with unlimited potential. As far as his music, NEVER a dud, to my ear, except maybe that bit with Paul McCartney...
The question though, is how or why, can you be that talented, have it all, and still be so troubled?
Rest In Peace...
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Jun 25, 2009 - 06:56pm PT
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I hope his family sues the Oxygen Tent Corporation of America for product fraud.
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JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 25, 2009 - 06:56pm PT
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Beat it. Beat it.
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno
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Jun 25, 2009 - 06:58pm PT
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It's unfortunate. He'd been rehearsing for his new tour, for the last couple of months. It would have been nice for him to be out doing what he loved and being more himself than he had been in a long time, before he left.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Jun 25, 2009 - 06:59pm PT
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In other news today, the child-porn industry just filed for bankruptcy protection, pending Federal Stimulus Bailout.
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Gene
climber
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Jun 25, 2009 - 07:03pm PT
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I don't know, guys. Wish I could separate the talent from what info we've been fed about the person. Eccentric is OK. What has been alledged about MJ is knott. Dude appears to have had to deal with some serious personal demons. Sorta like an old Greek tragedy.
gm
MJ changed his face as often as I change the oil in my truck.
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the kid
Trad climber
fayetteville, wv
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Jun 25, 2009 - 07:03pm PT
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thriller is dead.
i was too busy watching the WHo @ Isle of Wight to notice..
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JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 25, 2009 - 07:04pm PT
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Redwreck
Social climber
Echo Parque, Los Angeles, CA
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Jun 25, 2009 - 07:10pm PT
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Jackson's first words in the afterlife: "Is it hot in here, or is this a Pepsi commercial?"
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Blitzo
Social climber
Earth
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Jun 25, 2009 - 07:16pm PT
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Farrah and Michael Jackson in the same day!
I'm afraid to go outside.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Jun 25, 2009 - 07:21pm PT
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They are going in different directions now more than ever.
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Binks
Social climber
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Jun 25, 2009 - 07:38pm PT
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What a tragic life. I really don't think he was very talented. Thriller was OK. Lots of bad stuff after that. Lots of no name musicians have heaps more talent.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Jun 25, 2009 - 07:40pm PT
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Yeah Blitzo, and who went first to introduce them?
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Jun 25, 2009 - 07:41pm PT
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for all his wierdness, everytime i hear him sing "i'll be there" all is forgiven.
rip dude.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Jun 25, 2009 - 07:43pm PT
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I'm tellin' ya, never a dud!
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Jun 25, 2009 - 07:46pm PT
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Jackson's life was enough to make anybody nuts.
People who study these things note that victims of abuse often become abusers. Let's hope those who have suffered problems in childhood wake up and break the cycle of pain before they pass it on.
Peace
Karl
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JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 25, 2009 - 07:48pm PT
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I hope we do not have a Riot?
Juan
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Jun 25, 2009 - 07:53pm PT
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I wonder how busy Fluoride is right about now?
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Largo
Sport climber
Venice, Ca
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Jun 25, 2009 - 07:54pm PT
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One of the huge mistakes we all tend to make with people (wildy different and eccentric) like MJ is to judge him in terms of a "normal" person, and blame him for intentionally or consciously behaving poorly.
Actually, if you look at his suspect actions (buying the Elephant Man's bones, the crazy surgeries and sketchy relations with kids, etc.), his energy and manner, it's clear that MJ suffered, perhaps horribly, from some torment (early abuse?) and psycho-emotional virus that got progressively worse through the years as the man grew increasingly odd and isolated.
His remains a tragic story. This is not to dismiss all the Jesus Juice and creepyness - even nutters have to be held accountable - but the man simply was not right, and I suspect the load of it all killed him in the end.
But he was a genius, and stuff like Thriller is top shelf for all time.
I hope he is at peace.
JL
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Gene
climber
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Jun 25, 2009 - 07:58pm PT
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I was living in Taipei when Thriller came out. It’s hard to underestimate MJ’s worldwide appeal BITD. Riding the bus I’d see guys wearing one glove and weird suits with tight fitting pants and the whole outfit. Thriller came out when the Walkman went “must have.” That boosted sales – mostly counterfeit in Taiwan. Stores had the album blasting. You could not escape MJ. After a yacht delivery to Hong Kong, I found more of the same. Dude was everywhere. Ditto Kwangtung, & Singapore. While amusing to me, I can’t deny that most of Asia between ages 7 to 47 was all about MJ.
Messed up genius? Genius the word? Don't know. But for a while, he had the world in the palm of his gloved hand.
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Fletcher
Trad climber
the end of the world as we know it, & I feel fine.
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Jun 25, 2009 - 08:03pm PT
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Jaybro and Largo... thanks for your thoughts... right on the money.
MJ definitely was suffering and having compassion for him is a good thing. That doesn't excuse his actions and behaviour, especially as an adult. He had to live with that and face that on his own (or not... it was his choice and he had to live with the consequences). Before we judge, let us first judge our own actions. I think "Dont Cry for Me Argentina" Sanford is thinking a lot about that now.
MJ did have some absolutely brilliant songs... "I'll Be There" is a wonderful piece of work.
And I'm so glad Elvis has someone to hang with now. Elvis was pretty wacked by the end too, but man, some of his stuff is just magic... especially the ballads.
Eric
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
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Jun 25, 2009 - 08:05pm PT
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I liked the guy....he was never convicted of any crime other than having a f*#ked up childhood and adult life.
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GDavis
Trad climber
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Jun 25, 2009 - 08:17pm PT
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Just the final chapter of a sad, sad story. Regardless of the allegations, i just feel really bad for the guy. What happened to him during his childhood, all the events leading up to his issues with his appearances and the demons as it were that found facets to squeak out, slowly at first, then all together like an avalanche cascading out of control... just horrible to watch someone I idolized as a kid grow fall apart.
I don't know if its a good thing or a bad thing, but I'll always remember watching his music videos on Betamax and copying his moves, and hopefully the bad stuff will fall by the wayside.
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno
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Jun 25, 2009 - 08:17pm PT
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I see a lot of irony here... People talking about not judging and compassion, right after (or before) they judged the man, in the same paragraph. Saying his "actions" are inexcusable, he has to live with consequences, talking about Jesus Juice, etc. IS judging him. Just pointing that out.
I for one didn't buy anything that was said by the freaks testifying against him. Their stories constantly changed, they were caught in numerous HUGE lies, as were prosecuters, and on and on... I was incredibly surprised when he was acquitted, nonetheless. Most celebrities in this country are tried by the media, and the jury simply follows suit. It was a good day to see that the jury, who saw that the prosecutions' "case" simply didn't exist, had the balls to do what was right and just.
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saa
climber
berkeley, ca
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Jun 25, 2009 - 08:26pm PT
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Largo rules. Thank you for setting things straight.
If weirdoes were out, which climbers would be our role models? How would we feel when they die?
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Jun 25, 2009 - 08:26pm PT
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He was one of the greatest.
We all have strange skeletons in the closet, who can throw the first rock?
What a sad, sad day it has been. I will miss him. He was getting ready to make a come-back. We will all miss so much.
I will never understand death even though I understand what it is physically and intellectually. But why? I don't know. God does.
MJ God's peace.
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cintune
climber
the Moon and Antarctica
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Jun 25, 2009 - 08:48pm PT
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Fletcher
Trad climber
the end of the world as we know it, & I feel fine.
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Jun 25, 2009 - 08:49pm PT
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Hey Nefarius,
I see what you mean about judging. I didn't mean my post to come across as judging by me specifically. I really don't know MJ other than what I read about him in the media and what his music was. I can't really render a judgment on that. I was speaking more on a level of what he had to live with (as we all do). MJ knew what he did with his life and he had to deal with that. I don't know what that was or wasn't, but on some level, I'm sure he did.
Peace,
Eric
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Dr.Sprock
Boulder climber
Sprocketville
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Jun 25, 2009 - 09:45pm PT
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if you don't like somebody's music, or you are like normal people who like to rip on the rich and famous, then the personal problems, of course.
so a lot of people are happy, a lot of people are sad.
he did put out some of the best dance music in the world, and he could dance like nobody's bussiness since he was a kid.
and he usually records the first take on vocals.
everybody tries to copy jackson, from jagger to maroon 5, and all points in between.
he was the standard to be judged against for dance and sing.
the only other person who could give michael a run for the money was james brown.
so there is some dancin goin on somewhere, i just don't know where.
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nick d
Trad climber
nm
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Jun 25, 2009 - 09:54pm PT
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Nice of t*r to refer to MJ as "it".
Reflect on this, perhaps using the perspective of the recent politically motivated assasination of Dr.Tiller.
The first step you take on the road to acting inhuman yourself is the de-humanization of the "other". Once you've convinced yourself of the monstrosity of your target, you will free to do whatever it takes.
After all, it's good against evil, right? Sound familiar?
The question is, where does the evil really lie? Better not look too hard in the mirror, because if you are honest enough you will see some in yourself.
I would like to be more human and I know that does not involve de-humanizing others. Hate talking doesn't get anybody anywhere.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Jun 25, 2009 - 10:16pm PT
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Binks
Social climber
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Jun 25, 2009 - 10:36pm PT
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it's mere cruelty to rip on MJ. the man obviously suffered immensely during his lifetime from personal demons and parasitic attackers. and now some people want to heap on even more? that's really bad karma folks... he still managed to produce art that meant a lot to many people. i hope he finds redemption and peace in the afterlife.
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Lacey
Social climber
Boise, Idaho
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Jun 25, 2009 - 10:57pm PT
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Ditto Binks.................
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jiff
Mountain climber
autin, texas
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Jun 25, 2009 - 11:19pm PT
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ditto squared
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stevep
Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
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Jun 25, 2009 - 11:41pm PT
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Off the Wall and Thriller were very good albums. The rest of it, not so much.
Clearly the guy was very troubled, and part of me feels sorry for him. Roughly the same part that feels sorry for Britney Spears.
However, it's pretty hard for me to get past even a hint of child sex abuse, as that's such a horrible crime. Fattrad, while I respect your opinion on this, I don't see how you or your friend can possibly be 100% certain unless he was there 100% of the time when kids were there.
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rockermike
Mountain climber
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Jun 26, 2009 - 12:03am PT
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I don't know if you'll believe this but I don't think I have ever knowingly heard or watched MJ perform - just heard all the weird news about him. Well, making up for lost time, here he is
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3oT_TyK1Eh8
not too impressed and not sure what people saw in him, but sad story it is RIP
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Largo
Sport climber
Venice, Ca
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Jun 26, 2009 - 12:18am PT
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Fattrad wrote:
"stevep,
He was there 100% of the time.
"I was with him 24/7," LaPerruque was able to tell me. "I had a key to his room at all times, and I was never told not to use it."
It's pleasant think that just maybe, MJ was bad-rapped from the beginning, that people (me included) looked at his utter freakness and imagined him doing horrible things. It's all quite a shame, but at least we have his (early) music.
JL
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Jun 26, 2009 - 12:25am PT
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This whole thing is sad. What he had and what he devolved into. Just sad.
The dude obviously had issues. It sucks ass anytime ANYONE dies. Especially troubled souls like him.
Rest in peace, dude! I hope someone 'normal' looks after his kids.
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Jun 26, 2009 - 12:36am PT
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Binks writes:
"it's mere cruelty to rip on MJ."
It's called the Wages Of Wierdness.
You admit on TV to sleeping with other people's kids and this is what follows you to your grave. Society is funny that way.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Jun 26, 2009 - 12:38am PT
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I heard he hired Lou Ferrigno to be his personal trainer, as he got into shape for his upcoming tour. Now, this might be libelous, but Ferrigno by all appearances was a world-class steroid shooter back in the day. Even now, with steroids being illegal, Ferrigno most likely approaches physical training as being at least partially chemical.
So, he was probably ram-feeding the King of Pop all manner of "performance supplements", perhaps close cousins to banned substances like androstenedione, ephedra, and Hydroxy-Cut.
In any case, one of the strangest things a very strange Michael Jackson could have done is died so young. He, ostensibly, had access to the most expensive, highest quality healthcare. And he had obviously been to the doctor many, many, many times.
But, maybe that was what finally did him in: too many hours under the anesthetists' gas, and too many hours hooked up to painkiller IV drips.
My final vote is that Michael Jackson was the best, ever, at what he did. He was the ultimate song and dance man, and will probably not be surpassed for a very long time. His influence is beyond question.
That Moonwalk thing he did, just to take one famous example, was a very convincing optical illusion dance move. It immediately created a pop cultural shockwave, with everybody (even Don Ameche) trying to ride it. I don't know anybody who hasn't tried, at least once, to do that Moonwalk dance move.
Maybe someone, someday, will Moonwalk the Lost Arrow Spire slackline.
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Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
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Jun 26, 2009 - 12:39am PT
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Rockermike - am I to assume that you never listened to top-40 radio?
Or perhaps you were born a lot later than knott?
I absolutely loved this song when it came out - I think MJ was 11 or 12 at the time:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZOXG8wtxx_w
(don't miss the break at 1:44)
Here's a excerpt from wiki on the song:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ABC_(song);
"ABC" was a 1970 number-one hit song by The Jackson 5. "ABC" was written with
the same design as "I Want You Back", and was first heard on American Bandstand
in February 1970. The song also knocked The Beatles song "Let It Be" out of the
number one spot on the Billboard Hot 100 that same year.
Despite the fact that he later turned into a sad freak show, he'll likely forever have the biggest selling record of all time.
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JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 26, 2009 - 01:24am PT
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R a few BJ worth 12 million?
The moment one starts f*#king with the law the whole
Juan
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rockermike
Mountain climber
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Jun 26, 2009 - 01:36am PT
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OK, I'll admit ABC sounds familiar; but I said "knowingly". I probably did listen to top 40 radio in 1970 (15 yrs old) but I didn't pay attention to it - just not my style. Only the Beatles and Crosby Stills Nash and Young caught my attention - and that only barely. I have friends who constantly make fun of me because I always miss their oblique references to pop music lyrics.
Plus, in the late 70's and early '80's I was either in the high mountains of Colorado or in India and out of earshout of pop anything. ha
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Fletcher
Trad climber
the end of the world as we know it, & I feel fine.
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Jun 26, 2009 - 01:36am PT
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"ABC" is an awesome song.
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Chinchen
climber
Flagstaff?
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Jun 26, 2009 - 01:38am PT
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Thriller was the first cassette that my siblings and I ever owned. I remember driving from Northport to Spokane in 1983 or so and my Dad stopping in a record store in Colville and coming back to the car with that tape. This was very unlike my father who is famously curmudgeonly. The first thing we did when we got home that day was cut open a few cardboard boxes and lay them out on the floor so we could break dance to that tape. Im pretty sure we found some gloves and shared the pair....We listened to that thing till it was totally wrecked.
I remember seeing The video for Thriller when it first came out. My Dad managed a hotel in Rossland BC and we would go up sometimes and hang out in one of the rooms while he and my Mom worked. We weren't supposed to watch MTV, but you know we did. I was ten or so, and my brothers and sister where younger. We were transfixed and scared shitless at the same time.
It wasnt long after that that I started rocking a Members Only jacket.
Billie Jean....so good. Still to this day it holds up.
But yea, what a freak. Too bad and I dont really feel sorry for him, just his kids.
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Fletcher
Trad climber
the end of the world as we know it, & I feel fine.
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Jun 26, 2009 - 01:49am PT
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"Members Only jackets"
I never had one, but BITD I wish I did!
Eric
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Jun 26, 2009 - 02:08am PT
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I had a copy of ABC that was part of a cereal box, Super Sugar Crisp.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
Monrovia, CA
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Jun 26, 2009 - 02:20am PT
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Word
I will miss Ed McMahon and Farrah though...sigh.
Just to further disgust myself I flipped on CNN, you know the old news channel now called Continuously Nattering Nabobs.
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jack splat
climber
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Jun 26, 2009 - 02:32am PT
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So sad, what an amazing talent.
His music will live on a long time.
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apogee
climber
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Jun 26, 2009 - 02:43am PT
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No doubt- MJ was in a very small group of highly influential pop stars. His presence on pop music will be felt for many decades to come.
After skimming most of the posts on this thread, though, I notice a consistent theme of 'what a tragic guy, he had issues, how sad, he wasn't so bad'- all true, to be sure, but in ironic contrast to the butt-of-jokes that Jacko had become in the last 10 years, possibly (probably?) by some of the same people who are making comments to the effect of 'aww, how sad, he was a good guy' here tonight.
I'll be the first to cop to making Jacko jokes in the later decade of his life- he had really become quite the caricature- but why can't we have the same balanced view of people while they are with us?
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Fletcher
Trad climber
the end of the world as we know it, & I feel fine.
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Jun 26, 2009 - 03:20am PT
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Cereal box LP's... that brings back the memories!
I Want You Back... another classic. Just in under 3 minutes, back when music had to be under three minutes to get airplay on commercial radio.
Eric
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno
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Jun 26, 2009 - 03:37am PT
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""Members Only jackets"
I never had one, but BITD I wish I did!""
I'm pretty sure that rockermike never, ever saw one of those. Someone should post a picture.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Jun 26, 2009 - 03:47am PT
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When Farrah Fawcett arrived in heaven God granted her one wish. She wished that all the children on Earth should be safe...
..so God killed Michael Jackson.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Jun 26, 2009 - 03:55am PT
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I Want You Back is one of my all time favorite songs.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Jun 26, 2009 - 01:21pm PT
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Happy birthday, again T*R, you don't "have to listen to this" get out there somewhere, turn off all media that is not of your own selection.
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Blitzo
Social climber
Earth
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Jun 26, 2009 - 01:26pm PT
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I'm not into Pop, but I still think Michael Jackson was pretty Bad Ass!
The videos from Thriller were some of the best music videos ever!
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JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 26, 2009 - 01:51pm PT
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How many little boys did he molest in his bed?
Ten, Twenty, Fifty.
Sicko
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Fluoride
Trad climber
Hollywood, CA
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Jun 26, 2009 - 01:55pm PT
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Busiest day I've had on the job since I can remember. It was insane. He died just after I started my shift so I've been doing nothing but Jackson death live coverage and stories all yesterday & last night and have been up overnight making sure the reporter/crew coordination I set up for the AM shows went off and the follow up stories I suggested were getting done.
When worldwide icons die on my shift in my city, it's game on. But no sleep. Thing is still ongoing.
Autopsy is this morning, earliest prelim results should be ready by 2p.
Should be interesting. There's some rumors out there, wondering which will come true. His doctor that tried to revive him has gone missing now.
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drljefe
climber
Old Pueblo, AZ
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Jun 26, 2009 - 02:42pm PT
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Just turn on a radio...
and
start to boogie.
and don't be fraudulent!
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Blitzo
Social climber
Earth
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Jun 26, 2009 - 02:59pm PT
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Gee, Beth!
Let's have a drink or two when it's all over.
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Jun 26, 2009 - 03:01pm PT
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I remember in the early 70s I was on a fieldtrip with my school and we went to the beach by school bus. We had gone to OB in San Diego and for some reason we were up on the OB pier. Can't remember why now. But anyway, I had to go the the restroom really bad, and went into a bar that was on the pier to use the bathroom.
I was nervous about going into a bar, I was just a kid on a school fieldtrip. I remember the place was a dive, just a few people in there in the am, and there was this US Army soldier more than likely on leave from Vietnam or had just gotten back, wearing his kakis and obviuosly he had a little too much to drink (it was the am), but he was cutting up the floor lost to the world and dancing to the Jackson 5. Can't remember the song, but everyone would know it for sure. He was happy and lost to the magic of Michael Jackson singing and the Jackson 5. He didn't care he was out there alone. He was happy at that very moment. He could escape the realities of a world gone bad for just a moment through the music.
I will always remember that. Michael Jackson moved people. No matter what, I will always remember the good he brought to the world. Many of his latter songs are about serious and important global issues, and hopefully they move people in the right direction.
We have to seperate the sin from the sinner. He was human just like you and me, but he had incredible genious and talent often unheard of. We can all agree on that. I will miss him.
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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Jun 26, 2009 - 03:09pm PT
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This is the best thing to happen to Mark Sanford in months.
And I can't believe how many sentimental tributes to MJ are showing up here. Lots of crusty old white guy climbers coming out of the closet on this one.
NTTAWWT
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno
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Jun 26, 2009 - 03:16pm PT
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And yet it stings you hard when people are judgmental of either yourself, or your friends, t*r. What gives? You seem rather bitter, as of late... Hope you're OK.
Was Michael odd? Yes. He obviously had some things that needed to be worked out. There was never a shred of evidence of him being a child molester, however. Cases like his, and many others, where people have been run through the ringer and even imprisoned, only to be proven innocent later on, are why I *refuse* to be alone with young children. Especially young girls. Sad, but true.
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Jun 26, 2009 - 03:20pm PT
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Sounds like a few here are waiting in line to cast stones.
Not good Karma people.
But if you are perfect, then by all means step-up and throw. Just remember you will receive the same judgement when you pass away.
Anymore takers?
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno
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Jun 26, 2009 - 03:24pm PT
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" and there was a lot more than just "smoke" surrounding the MJ issue. "
You must have personal knowledge then. Care to enlighten us? Nothing other than smoke ever came out in testimony or evidence at the trial. Really, all the trial did was cause a lot of grief for a lot of people, and show a greedy, pissed off, feeling-slighted DA trying to get some revenge, using greedy, lying losers in an attempt to do so. This wasn't OJ, where technicalities and poor handling of the case/evidence let a seemingly guilty man free.
And you do seem a bit bitter. Was just asking. Seems like a lot of your posts have been super negative lately. So much so, that after seeing a number of comments you've made over the last couple of days, I had to check to see that someone wasn't posting as an imposter again. Just curious.
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klinefelter
Boulder climber
Bishop, CA
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Jun 26, 2009 - 03:27pm PT
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Sheesh, give it a rest t*r.
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Jingy
Social climber
Flatland, Ca
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Jun 26, 2009 - 03:37pm PT
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Children and parent alike are resting a little easier tonight...
I hate to sound like I don't care if Jackson went or not.. It's not like he's been a best friend for me or anything.. He was an entertainer, and he did this really well for the time that he had to do so, and was rewarded handsomely for his efforts....
But that's the extent of it... just an entertainer... contributed about as much as I have to the rest of humanity... Next to nothing... which is just about nothing, and still very close to nothing..... I'm sure of it!
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Jun 26, 2009 - 03:54pm PT
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Ho Hum.
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JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 26, 2009 - 03:57pm PT
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Just relax Mr. Jackson this Demoral is a special new cocktail with Morphine.
Dr. Death is on the loose in Los Angeles!
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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Jun 26, 2009 - 04:27pm PT
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they towed the doctor's BMW, but stress that he is not under investigation?
horse sh#t - if you suspect foul play, then just say it's normal investigative procedure to do an inventory search of a vehicle that was towed and tied to a person of interest that they want to talk to...
"police towed a BMW from Jackson’s rented home “because it may contain medications or other evidence that may assist the coroner in determining the cause of death,” police spokeswoman Karen Rayner said.
She said the car belongs to one of Jackson’s doctors whom police wanted to interview. Rayner stressed the doctor was not under criminal investigation."
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Blitzo
Social climber
Earth
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Jun 26, 2009 - 04:36pm PT
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I'm not gay or anything, but that guy could dance!
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klinefelter
Boulder climber
Bishop, CA
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Jun 26, 2009 - 04:45pm PT
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Jingy - "contributed about as much as I have to the rest of humanity... Next to nothing"
He donated over $300 million to charity over his life, but I suppose that counts for next to nothing...
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Jun 26, 2009 - 05:01pm PT
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Climber Trivia question;
About whom is there an in depth article, in the Magazine depicted below;
Residents of Mono/Inyo Counties are ineligible for this contest.
How 'bout that Beth, Blitz, you gettin' her rum frou drink ready?
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno
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Jun 26, 2009 - 05:44pm PT
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Yeah... He was in all the live MJ videos from that time, Blitzo. Also, Slash played with him. And Sheryl Crow's big break was when she sang a duet with him.
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Gene
climber
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Jun 26, 2009 - 06:06pm PT
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I'm really saddened by this, not as a music fan, but as an amateur theme park aficionado.
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stevep
Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
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Jun 26, 2009 - 06:12pm PT
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And Eddie Van Halen on Beat It.
I understand that they tried to revive him by rushing him to the children's ward.
What's the difference between Michael Jackson and a grocery bag?
One is white, plastic and dangerous for kids to play with, the other you can use to carry your groceries.
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t^r
Social climber
dancing with puppies
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Jun 26, 2009 - 06:20pm PT
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he is a horrible horrible man and i hope he dies a slow death
Q: How can you tell if Michael Jackson has a hot date?
A: There’s a big wheel parked outside his house.
Q: Why does Michael Jackson like twenty eight year olds?
A: Because there are twenty of them.
Q: Who does Michael Jackson consider a Perfect “10″?
A: Two 5 year olds.
Q: How does Michael Jackson pick his nose?
A: From a catalogue.
Q: Why did Michael Jackson place a phone call to Boyz-2-Men??
A: He thought it was a delivery service.
Q: What has 18 balls and 3 pubic hairs?
A: A Michael Jackson slumber party.
Q: Did you know they’re putting out a Michael Jackson stamp?
A: Fans get to vote for the white or black Michael Jackson.
Q: What’s brown and often found in a baby’s diaper?
A: Michael Jackson’s hand.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Jun 26, 2009 - 06:40pm PT
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Funny if slanderous, T*R.
Remember, he was found innocent. We can always wonder, but it is not for us to condemn him without further due process....
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stevep
Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
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Jun 26, 2009 - 06:44pm PT
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He was found innocent, but he was certainly a weird dude. And I'm really OK with telling bad jokes about weird, dead celebrities.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Jun 26, 2009 - 06:46pm PT
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got it, they fooled me again, does that mean I'm GW Bush?
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dirtbag
climber
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Jun 26, 2009 - 06:47pm PT
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Fatty,
t^r is not t*r.
She has a fan, apparently.
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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Jun 26, 2009 - 06:49pm PT
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"Remember, he was found innocent."
Slight technical correction: He was found "Not Guilty."
"Innocent" is not an option.
But no, I don't care either way. I suppose on some level I find Jackson interesting as a cultural phenomenon, but still was surprised by the level of enthusiasm among the ST cohort.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Jun 26, 2009 - 07:03pm PT
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again, that's the rap we've heard since way before '93, who knows?
What is this kangaroo court's take on Angela Davis?
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t^r
Social climber
dancing with puppies
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Jun 26, 2009 - 07:11pm PT
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that's not me
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno
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Jun 26, 2009 - 07:11pm PT
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...which doesn't prove anything, really, other than another celebrity has been blackmailed and had cash extorted from them. Happens all the time. So what? Fact is, this is California. A kid, or a woman, doesn't need evidence of any sort to have you arrested for any number of crimes. Fighting those accusations is nearly impossible. You people need to wake up and stop persecuting people because the media tells you to.
If they had damning evidence, they'd have brought it up in court. It wasn't there. Instead, all they had were witnesses caught in lie after lie, prosecutors caught lying, evidence proven tampered with, and witnesses who'd tried to sue other celebrities for $$$, as well as demand money from Michael in the past...
Yet, there were plenty of witnesses who testified to his character, who'd spent a ton of time with him. Even boys. Even celebrity boys who didn't need his $$$...
Again, no one is saying he wasn't eccentric, or weird or that he didn't have things that needed to be addressed. Just no one even came close to showing anything towards him being a child molester. And I'm no serious fan or anything, but reality is reality and this is a world/cultural event.
And to the BS about Farrah vs. MJ. MJ was a cultural icon that spanned decades. Farrah was a big deal for a couple of years. MJ is one of the most famous people that's ever lived. There's simply no comparison, really. I still don't see what's so hard to understand about that.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Jun 26, 2009 - 08:25pm PT
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somewhere in a cloud, Kung fu, Ed Mcmahon & Farrah open up the circle so that Michael can play hackey Sack with them. Then they're all, even Kung, memorizing MJ's moves. Then Brutus walks up, and they all stand back, ready to really learn something.
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno
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Jun 26, 2009 - 08:33pm PT
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Nice, Jaybro!!!!!
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klinefelter
Boulder climber
Bishop, CA
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Jun 26, 2009 - 08:52pm PT
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Is it a child's birthday party, t*r?
Sounds suspicious.
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blahblah
Gym climber
Boulder
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Jun 26, 2009 - 09:37pm PT
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^ ^ ^ ^
Interesting point that if he were anyone else he would have been found guilty, because if he were anyone else, he wouldn't have been accused in the first place (assuming it was an extortion attempt, as fattrad seems to have evidence for, and which seems consistent with my recollection of the "facts" that came out at trial). But yeah, he was a seriously weird guy and I don't think any of the parents that post here would send their kids into one of his sleep overs.
It is interesting why stars get many of us so worked up, but they do, and MJ was about as a big a star as there ever was in his day.
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Jingy
Social climber
Flatland, Ca
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Jun 27, 2009 - 12:19am PT
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kline-guy - yeah, I guess I should have been following MJ's charity funding a little closer than I hav....
PEDOPHILE IS STILL PEDOPHILE REGARDLESS OF HOW MUCH MONEY ONE GIVES TO CHARITY!!!!
excuse me... I had a cough
edit - sorry again... jeez, was MJ ever convicted of any sexual crimes against children?
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Largo
Sport climber
Venice, Ca
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Jun 27, 2009 - 01:41am PT
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Just watched a DVD featuring all of MJ's number one hits along with the videos (West Side Story meets Miami Vice). It's eerie to see MJ get progressively freakier as the years pass, but the one constant is the music - always the absolute shizat, all the way through "Earth Song," in '95.
JL
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Jun 27, 2009 - 02:23am PT
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I hesitate to post this but here goes . . .
This prodical son (me) has finally come back to God over the last few years. I do believe the Bible. When I read the Bible I read the KJV, like I did so long ago.
There is such a thing as Bible Code. If you do not know about it then I would read the best-selling book called "Bible Code," by Michael Drosnin, and you will be blown away, and your faith will be strengthened or perhaps you will find faith. If you want proof that God exists and what he says is true, that proof is available. It was meant for our time. Without the computer the code remained hidden.
It is beyond mere statistical chance that it exists and that the Bible contains hidden messages for the past, present, and future. Mathematically, it is impossible by chance. It is purposeful. The code exists in the original Hebrew and it has also been discovered in the most famous English version of the Bible, the authorized 1611 King James Bible.
The code often is not found until a significant event happens in history, since we don't know what to look for until it happens. Sometimes, however, significant codes are found before the event happens. If something shows up in the Code then it is significant and it means something. We should pay attention.
What is the purpose of the Code? In my opinion, God wants man to know his word is real and he knows what is going to happen before it happens. That is not to say he always directs it, just that he knows what we will chose to do before we do it. He is God. He knows. He also knows we want proof of his existance and his omnipotence, and his omnipresence, and his love.
Well, Micheal Jackson is very significant. He is described in the KJV bible code in the New Testament. I had seen this bible code described before when looking up other codes that have been found on other topics. Well 6/25/09 it came to pass sadly.
http://www.linkydinky.com/EnglishBibleCode.shtml
So if God took the time to mention his life in the Bible, then he is very significant. The bible says he was the Music PopKing. It also says he dies sad. I can understand why so many people care about losing him. God cared also. He cared enough to mention it.
Yes, he was human and fallible, but so are we. I do not think that his shortcomings will define his life. What I think will define his life in history is the fact that he was the Music PopKing, and we loved that about him. But shame on us, he still died sadly.
He needed help and we were not there for him. That is our shame and cross to bear. Perhaps God is telling us something. Maybe we should listen. Our heros are human, and we should care, and we should let them know it when we can.
That message is true for everyone in our lives.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Jun 27, 2009 - 02:55am PT
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Um, it's hard to tell sincerity from sarcasm, sometimes, a clue, maybe?
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Jun 27, 2009 - 03:45am PT
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Payoffs are always a sign of wealth, extortion and expediency. Rarely do they have anything to do with guilt.
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Jun 27, 2009 - 10:36am PT
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HD,
To answer your question, YES.
But answer your own questions. Look it up. Read Michael Drosnin's book and lookup the research others have done on Bible Code, in the Hebrew Bible and in the KJV. Many, many, many historical events and people are illustrated in Bible Code. Apparently you haven't looked it up. Or you don't know about it. Look up your own "real" name.
You can even do it yourself if you are so inclined. It isn't just something only a few people can do, anyone who sincerely wants to do it can do so and contribute there findings. You have to learn about it first, know its real, know how it works, and then get the software and go at it.
By the way, do you know that statiticians at the Pentagon have verified it also? Drosnin talks about this in his book. (But to be honest with you, I can't help but think the Pentagon's motives are impure. What is it really that "they" want to do with this knowledge?)
Perhaps the best known Bible Code software out there is:
http://www.codefinder.us/
Fairly balanced??? article on Bible Code at Wiki:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible_code
Bible Code is real. It is mathematiclly and statistically impossible to happen by chance.
Edit:
To answer your second question. I do not know. Check it out! Sounds like a wonderful project to do and verify!
One thing I do know, others have verified that the Bible Code does not occur in other modern english versions of the bible. That I do know, and people have tried. It doesn't seem to work.
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Dr.Sprock
Boulder climber
Sprocketville
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Jun 27, 2009 - 11:31am PT
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the less you know about any of your favorite musicians, the better.
just enjoy the music and look the other way when they get off stage.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Jun 27, 2009 - 01:07pm PT
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I think in this case a tin foil glove is in order.
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dirtbag
climber
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Jun 27, 2009 - 01:28pm PT
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Klimmer, get help.
To quote MJ, that sh#t is "Off the Wall."
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Jun 27, 2009 - 01:39pm PT
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Wait a minute. Where'd the little GIRL come from?
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dirtbag
climber
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Jun 27, 2009 - 01:44pm PT
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lol
That would be a work of God
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Jun 27, 2009 - 01:52pm PT
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I thought it was McCulkey Hogan and the Corey kid in the Jacko as Jesus depiction. The girl doesn't fit in.
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Jun 27, 2009 - 02:11pm PT
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I give you guys tools to check it out for yourself and just like the guy above wearing the tin-foil hat and plugging his ears, well that is the response I get from you. Typical.
You really don't know because you haven't checked it out. I get the feeling you probably won't any time soon, yet you sit there and poo-poo it all.
Ignorance is bliss so they say.
Until the end that is. (My words)
You can lead a horse to water, but you can't . . . well you know how it ends. Why bother finishing it.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Jun 27, 2009 - 02:19pm PT
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I'm going through my old Roper guidebook looking for secret messages in the letters,...
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dirtbag
climber
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Jun 27, 2009 - 03:22pm PT
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Klimmer...and you teach kids high school physics?
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BCD
Trad climber
Mammoth Lakes, CA
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Jun 27, 2009 - 03:37pm PT
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Oh man, I was all excited about that "Bible Code" stuff. Usually that kind of thing fascinates me, and I'd never heard of it before.
So I did some reading, and it turns out the guy fudged the information in order to create words. Oh well.
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quietpartner
Trad climber
Moantannah
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Jun 27, 2009 - 03:43pm PT
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MJ: "Here's how you tell what time it is, sonny. When the big hand touches the little hand....."
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Jun 27, 2009 - 04:06pm PT
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BCD,
No he didn't. There are critics to be sure. People have a hard time accepting it. But when the stats are done and the tests are verified over and over and over again by many mathematicians and scientists, kinda mutes the critics.
HD,
You are asking me what are the chances of God mentioning MJ in the KJV of the bible code? Well, first of all you have to believe that the KJ bible is the word of God in English. Then I would have to know the mind of God to be able to say why God chose to say anything at all about MJ. Then you have to find it in the bible.
Well, the first I believe. The second no way of knowing unless God says why. The third has been done by others and I posted a copy of their work. This is a repeatable emperical experiment that anyone here can do to verify. Takes some time but it isn't hard to do. They give you the portion of the bible and the skip sequence used. Verify it. The chances are really undetermineable. But that really isn't the point. The point is he did do it, it is there to read, the bible says so.
Locker,
Remember, Newton for a long period of his life looked for the Bible Code as a result of God telling Daniel in the OT that the words are to be locked up until the end, to paraphrase. So Newton knew there was a bible code, but he just couldn't figure it out.
Kepler used his laws to try to find the star of Bethlehem. You can be a good scientist, and teacher, and still have faith. As a public HS teacher I cannot talk about many issues we talk about here on ST and I don't. In class I teach science and the scientific method. Science and faith are two different tools that answer two different questions. However, they can validate each other and often do.
Ok, I can't keep going on about this. All I wanted to do was show you that God does mention MJ in the NT of the KJV of the bible. MJ will be sorely missed and I hope he finds God's peace.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Jun 27, 2009 - 04:13pm PT
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Kookoo
l
i
m
m
e
r
(from the Roper code)
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cintune
climber
the Moon and Antarctica
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Jun 27, 2009 - 04:18pm PT
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http://www.skeptictank.org/hs/bcodedbk.htm
Scholars Debunk "Bible Code"
NEW YORK Sep 10 -- An international team of statisticians is debunking the controversial "Bible code," which claims the Old Testament has hidden references to 20th century events that can be revealed by a computer.
Proponents of the code claim that names and events were hidden in the Bible as written thousands of years ago and can be found through computer searches of the Hebrew text. Television documentaries, fast-selling books and numerous articles have popularized the theory, first published in the academic journal Statistical Science.
Now the same journal, published by the Institute of Mathematical Statistics based in Hayward, Calif., is offering an article challenging the technique it reported in 1994. The article will be published in the quarterly next week.
Believers in the "Bible code" theory treat the Hebrew Bible as a string of letters without spaces, looking for words formed by equidistant letter sequences. For instance, computers might select every ninth Hebrew letter and register a "hit" when a "coded word" intersects with a Bible verse containing related words.
Five years ago, three Israeli scholars published the results of their search in the journal. As they explained, they took names of famous rabbis from a reference dictionary, applied letter sequences and found the names near the rabbis' dates of birth or death.
Using the same technique, others have claimed the Bible contains secret predictions, including everything from the assassination of Yitzhak Rabin in 1995 to a Los Angeles earthquake in 2010.
Major Bible scholars ignore the code because, they note, no one has a letter-by-letter version of the Bible as originally written. The oldest surviving manuscripts include slight variations, any of which would throw off computer test results.
In the upcoming edition of Statistical Science, the new study's authors -- Dror Bar-Natan, Maya Bar-Hillel and Gil Kalai, professors at Jerusalem's Hebrew University, and Brendan McKay of the Australian National University -- combine expertise in mathematics and computer science to debunk the theory.
Using other spellings and assumptions, they ran hundreds of tests that repeated the experiment with different variations and applied it to more biblical books.
"Despite a considerable amount of effort," they write, "we have been unable to detect the codes."
This is significant, Bar-Natan said in a Thursday interview, because "truth in science is never based on the results of a single experiment. A significant requirement is repeatability."
Their results were no more successful with the Hebrew translation of Tolstoy's "War and Peace." Such letter configurations can be found in any long text, they say. The trick is to find letters in close proximity that form significant words more often than by chance.
But Eliyahu Rips, an Israeli mathematics professor who was co-author of the 1994 article, said in a statement that evidence for the code is "stronger than ever" and said a detailed reply to the new criticism would appear soon.
His ally Michael Drosnin, author of "The Bible Code," said the critics "told a lie."
Robert Kass, head of the statistics department at Carnegie Mellon University in Pittsburgh, edited the journal when it published the first article and said it was reviewed by other experts. He is disturbed that people perceived publication as "a stamp of scientific approval." That first article, he said, merely presented a puzzle -- one that has now been explained.
"The new study shows there were many, many choices, particularly for things like the names of the rabbis, that involved a lot of latitude. It was only for special sources that the results appeared," he said Thursday.
He said such studies must avoid statistical "tuning," just as medical research projects follow strict protocol.
Bar-Natan says that procedures in the 1994 project had "enough wiggle room to produce whatever you want."
Authors of the earlier article could not be reached for comment.
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Jun 27, 2009 - 04:42pm PT
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Ok, last time . . .
'But Eliyahu Rips, an Israeli mathematics professor who was co-author of the 1994 article, said in a statement that evidence for the code is "stronger than ever" and said a detailed reply to the new criticism would appear soon.
His ally Michael Drosnin, author of "The Bible Code," said the critics "told a lie." '
I have seen articles by the critics too and have read them. I stand by Rips and Drosnin.
You have to use some common sense. Just like the KJV of the bible doesn't say Michael Jackson, but does say, Music PopKing, he dies sad, false face painted, you then realize exactly who the bible is referring to. There is only one person who fulfills that description. The identity is without question.
Their original experiment and demo allowed for different yet proper spellings and identifications of the rabbis names. To stick to hard fast rules on how to identify them, such as only by first and last name and complete, is a lie. You will never find anything if you stick to hard fast rules such as that.
For instance, we wouldn't have anything on MJ in the KJ bible if you insist that his first name and last name appear. If it doesn't then forget it. Sorry, it doesn't work like that. Sometimes, yes, and sometimes no.
Wow, my fake ST name appears in the Roper guide book. Cooooooooooooollllll!!!!! (Get real)
Prov.1:22 (KJV)
[22] How long, ye simple ones, will ye love simplicity? and the scorners delight in their scorning, and fools hate knowledge?
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dirtbag
climber
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Jun 27, 2009 - 04:51pm PT
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I hope you don't teach this horseshit to kids.
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Jun 27, 2009 - 05:01pm PT
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DB,
That is why we have a Constitution. That is why we have seperation of church and state and it should remain so. I agree with you.
By the way, I never have taught horse sh#t. Did you have teachers that teached horse sh#t? Did you ever have a class on horse sh#t? Sounds like a biology class, a class on scatology. Hey, I guess someone has to teach it though. Sorry, I'm about physics and Earth Science.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Jun 27, 2009 - 05:14pm PT
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Klimmer tells ME to get real!
ROTFLMAO
(at least the "Roper code" is in a language that existed when the book was written!)
C'mon, pleeeeeeeeease tell me this is a troll. LOL
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Captain...or Skully
Social climber
North of the Owyhees
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Jun 27, 2009 - 05:18pm PT
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Who's "Jackson"?
What are we talkin' about here?
Hello! Is this thing on? HELLO!
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Grant Meisenholder
Trad climber
CA
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Jun 27, 2009 - 05:57pm PT
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"But when the stats are done and the tests are verified over and over and over again by many mathematicians and scientists, kinda mutes the critics."
I just spoke with my dad who maintains close ties with "powers that be" at Caltech and he said - to my complete amazement - that a chair is being funded and an entire wing being built for 2 Nobel Laureates to run a supercomputer lab tasked solely to further unlock the secrets of the "Bible Code"
Kinda makes you think...
NOT!
I'd love to see the creds of these "many mathematicians and scientists". Perhaps we're talking about a loose definition of Klimmer's "science" students and the homework assignments he inflicts upon them... http://www.wordwebonline.com/en/NUTJOB !!!
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Jun 27, 2009 - 06:48pm PT
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Apparently you all have a very narrow focus and understanding of what people who believe in God, and who are followers of Christ truly all think, and what they all truly do really believe.
You have pigeon-holed everyone into fundamentalism.
I have given many examples of great scientific minds who were devote believers in God and had faith. Are you attacking them also?
I have no problem with the Big Bang onward, including evolution. If that is the way God wanted to do it, who am I to judge? The emperical facts are clear to see all around us, and we can radiometrically date things as well as the use of many other dating techniques and lines of evidence. Even the creation week in Genesis is a wonderful allegory from the Big-Bang onward through evolution. Read it again.
But at some point even science has to admit to "magic" and no ability to explain, to go from non-living to living matter. Science cannot explain that step. And it is not an easy step, but a gigantic step and leap of faith even for science. Before life was, how do non-living organic molecules and compounds even form tissue or just one organ of the simplest life form we can imagine? Like my first professor in Biology said (whom I became very good friends and climbed in N. America and Europe with), "The simplest life form is far more complex than the largest non-living structure in the Universe." So true.
So the greatest minds in science please step up and tell us how that happens? We do not know.
Some say magic, or just intentionally skip that step, I say GOD.
So many of you can not have a discussion without personal attacks and ridicule. Can you just use real substance and facts ever, and let the evidence argue your points?
Once again . . .
Prov.1:22 (KJV)
[22] How long, ye simple ones, will ye love simplicity? and the scorners delight in their scorning, and fools hate knowledge?
I am truly done with this thread.
Take care MJ.
Edit:
I will be the first to admit at times I'm not a good speller, many aren't. I have long wanted ST to have a spell checker in the forum. I suppose I could type it in Word and then post, but what a pain. Apparently you are not human. You never make any typos or mis-spellings do you? Apparently we are now to treat ST as a scholarly journal and we should submit our words to an editing team and peer review board?
Crickets . . .
I didn't think so.
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Grant Meisenholder
Trad climber
CA
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Jun 27, 2009 - 07:04pm PT
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"emperical"
You claim to be a scientist and yet you can't spell empirical? (and dozens of other words in your posts) Creationism is not science. Good night.
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Largo
Sport climber
Venice, Ca
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Jun 27, 2009 - 07:11pm PT
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"Creationism is not science."
Jeez, where did MJ go in this discussion. But while we're on it, the idea that science has the creation of the universe fully dialed is not quite as soild as we might think. I'm reminded of this in the following comedy bit.
“Well, you’ve got your dark energy,” said Brown. “Then there’s the forming of galaxies, and consciousness itself. But these all lie downstream of the first question - ”
“ - How did the universe ever come into existence,” said DB.
“Big Bang theory answers that quite nicely,” I said. “It all began with an acorn, see, infinitely dense and hotter than the sun. Then – ka-bang! 13 billion years later and here we are, drinkin beer.”
Brown shook his head and said, “Problem is, for that acorn to explode, it had to exist before the big bang. But the eggheads say there was no ‘before,’ because space and time began with the bang itself.”
“Not sure I follow,” said Mike.
“If that acorn occupied neither time nor space, in what manner did it exist? And if it did not exist, it could not have exploded and given birth to all these bizarre summits.”
“So where does that leave us,” I asked.
"Who knows," said Brown.
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Jun 27, 2009 - 07:14pm PT
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And there is any answer any better than that?
Some things, we will never know...
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Grant Meisenholder
Trad climber
CA
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Jun 27, 2009 - 07:30pm PT
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I certainly want to keep this from getting too tangential, but I'll make this one last observation: Yes, there's a whole lot of 'splainin' to do, but I do know that time & space gets pretty freaky when you squeeze it down tight like that. Scientific inquiry has made great strides in taking the "Then there was a miracle" caveat out of a lot of religious claims.
Ssssssss!((cough!))Ahhhhh... Now what were we saying about MJ?
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Jun 27, 2009 - 07:53pm PT
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WTF is wrong with thread drift?
If you start moonwalking or invite me over for a sleepover I am SO out of here!
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Chaz
Trad climber
greater Boss Angeles area
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Jun 27, 2009 - 08:38pm PT
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I don't know from horsesh#t, but I have donkey sh#t PhD.
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Captain...or Skully
Social climber
North of the Owyhees
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Jun 28, 2009 - 12:03am PT
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Huh?
Who is this "jackson" person, to which you are refering?
Must not be important.......
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Largo
Sport climber
Venice, Ca
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Jun 28, 2009 - 02:13am PT
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"time & space gets pretty freaky when you squeeze it down tight like that."
Extreme child abuse can have the same effect on kids - it can "squeeze" the natural essence right out of people and want emerges is freaky freaky.
JL
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apogee
climber
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Jun 29, 2009 - 02:14am PT
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_michael_jackson
Apparently, MJ's Doc needs to take a CPR class:
"Chernoff told the AP that Murray was at the pop icon's rented mansion on Thursday afternoon when he discovered Jackson in bed and not breathing. The doctor immediately began administering CPR, Chernoff said.
"He just happened to find him in his bed, and he wasn't breathing," the lawyer said. "Mr. Jackson was still warm and had a pulse."
A wierd man's life only becomes wierder when he dies...
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Fluoride
Trad climber
Hollywood, CA
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Jun 29, 2009 - 02:24am PT
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Ron calls it.
This man had serious issues.
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dee ee
Mountain climber
citizen of planet Earth
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Jun 30, 2009 - 10:15pm PT
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"The Thriller is Gone." FA 6/30/09 Rockreation CA. Red plastic, 5.8, classic.
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aldude
climber
Monument Manor
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My fave Jackson vid : Remember The Time ....funky groove, cool chords, egyptian threads and Magic Johnson....how can you go wrong!!
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| Messages 1 - 159 of total 159 in this topic |
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