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Porkchop_express
Trad climber
the base of the Shawangunk Ridge
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Jun 21, 2009 - 02:35pm PT
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I think a lot of that has to do with your insulin sensitivity and general overall health. I can only really speak to type 1 but I would guess that type 2, is roughly the same since with exercise, diet and weight loss it can be reversed...
For me, I take two insulins- a long acting one that does not peak, that is very like normal human insulin. It last 24 hours and it is responsible for metabolizing the glycogen stored in the muscles. I am quite sensitive to insulin so I don't get a sugar spike after I work out where others do- as their muscles release sugar into the bloodstream, their insulin is not able to convert it all fast enough ( more or less ) The other insulin covers meals, and peaks in 2 hours, is gone in 4. This is very different from the other insulin. The idea is to keep the blood sugar balanced between snacking and meals and long and short term insulin such that everything else is pretty normal.
Bottom line is that if you can keep your sugar straight and learn how your body responds to various activities, then all other aspects ( assuming no complications arise ) should be the same as for a non diabetic. Again, this is for a type 1 who has no sensitivity issues, just does not produce their own insulin because their pancreas hates them.
Edit: I think the main difference in athletic performance (esp endurance wise) is really the fact that as a diabetic you have to continually fuel as you are working out (in longer scenarios, climbs, multi-day or even long day excursions) so that you don't crash. I read about situations like Charlie Porter on that one wall on Baffin and I know that if I ran out of food, I wouldnt be hiking back 50 miles...so its sort of like bringing the right gear to protect your route- you have to bring plenty of stuff to eat to fuel you up as you burn it off, since you can't really carbo load before. During, you can sort of...because your sensitivity is sky high as your muscles are taking anything out of your bloodstream they can get.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Jun 21, 2009 - 02:49pm PT
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Pork Chop Express & TMarkert:
Does your diet in terms of carbohydrate intake, specifically focus on low glycemic complex carbs?
Do you as well mix those carbs with some protein, fat, or fiber to slow down, or smooth out, their rate of metabolism?
Some say this protocol will not overdrive insulin response (or requirements) and attendant pancreatic output.
Do I have this in the ballpark?
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TMarkert
Sport climber
Lansdale, PA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 21, 2009 - 02:52pm PT
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Porkchop, TONS of help, thanks..
That link is awesome!
Yes type 1 on NPH and R but I am looking for more info on that 24 hour Insulin your using.
I started out as a hiker and fell into this climbing 2 months ago. When hiking I would carry those "big 100" energy bars and snack on pieces of that every few minutes. I guess that I could eat a bite before or after every route? hmmm
I do know that since I started climbing 4 or more days a week, that I have DROPPED my dosage by almost 50% of long acting, and still am getting 50 - 55 mg/dl reading at 4 pm.. Shock is no fun at work!
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TMarkert
Sport climber
Lansdale, PA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 21, 2009 - 02:57pm PT
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I pretty much eat a "typical human diet" but broken into 5 meals a day and a NO carb snack at night.
I watch my carb intakes and time them for the hours where I will need that energy (breakfast, and again right before the gym).
And one thing I have found is SIPPING a NON diet monster or red bull gives me a bit of ooommfff and really doesnt spike me if I am working out at the same time.
And I do try to load up on protiens! Every meal has meat, or fish, or some high protien, PLUS 1 whey protien shake a day as my 9PM after workout snack..
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Porkchop_express
Trad climber
the base of the Shawangunk Ridge
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Jun 21, 2009 - 03:05pm PT
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Tar- You are in the right ballpark. Basically insulin response and pancreatic output are both somewhat null for type 1 as I have no pancreatic output. For a type 2 who has some pancreatic function, that is really the name of the game though. I also try and keep the glycemic index pretty low- not always intentionally, but it so happens that many of the foods I tend to eat are lower on the index, so it works out ok.
Usually I eat more protein than carbs, but usually those carbs are complex (lower gi) whole grains and breads rather than sugary stuff which is of little value to anyone, diabetic or otherwise!
When I am backpacking I tend to eat whatever I want and a decent amount of it too as the sugar just burns right off from the cardio.
Tom- If your lows are still getting to you, cut back a little of both the insulins to smooth that out. As you exercise more your sensitivity increases and you can get away with less insulin. I use NPH and Lantus which work well for me. I don't usually have problems with lows while climbing but just checking a few times throughout should give you an idea of whether or not you need to snack a little. Lifting and climbing (anaerobic) tend not to drop my sugar at least till afterward, where aerobic (hiking, long easier routes etc) tend to require more constant attention.
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jstan
climber
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Jun 21, 2009 - 03:09pm PT
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I swear. This place is a gold mine.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jun 21, 2009 - 04:27pm PT
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I can't comment on the insulin/diabetes aspects, except to observe that diet and hydration are important factors to both general fitness and climbing.
In terms of training for climbing, I concur with what others have been saying. A solid general level of all-around fitness should be the base for everything else. Aerobic, flexibility, and strength. Intense climbing-specific training is likely to lead to overuse injuries. I find that swimming in structured workouts, bicycling and hiking/backpacking are good for overall fitness. Some discipline and effort are required to derive much benefit, of course.
Routes in the climbing gym, particularly the moderate ones, often don't parallel those found in real-world climbing areas. The former are steep, sustained and strenuous, and place a premium on strength. Real climbing at most areas, up to 5.8 or 5.9, usually depends much more on general fitness and technique. Climbing 5.8 in the gym often isn't great preparation for climbing outside, and vice-versa.
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Rob_James
Ice climber
Aoraki/Mt. Cook Village, New Zealand
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Jun 21, 2009 - 05:56pm PT
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Grab 15kgs. Tie 2 metres of 7mm cord to one end of it. Clove hitch the other end of the 7mm cord around a rolling pin. Use such as a "wrist roller". Drag the weight along the ground, roll the weight in. 30 minutes a night whilst watching TV. This will help with elbow problems, and improve aspects to some people's grip issues (if needed).
Find some easy outdoor terrain. Challenge yourself traversing with 1 hand, both legs for balance. Do about 20 minutes of this using each hand a couple times a week. It'll help with developing stronger footwork and the other intricacies to functional efficiency. With due respect - watch how many girls climb.
Yeah. You're progressing strongly after just 8 weeks - bravo. Appreciate though that it is quite probable for people to get strong, though doing so without over-use injury is tricky.
So do some laps outdoors, and 'rest' intermittenly as you practice building and breaking down anchors in features close to to the ground.
Dial your prussiking/jumaring technique ueful in its' own right for core endurna development, a great boost to confidence as you learn to trust well designed anchors and ropes.
Have fun. And don't waste your music. If you've some tunes that get you pumped, save them exclusively for when you go climbing - it fuels the motivation that mundane repetitious practice demands.
The gym works for many/some. But if you wanna play outside, you'll need a bunch of practice identifying good holds for yourself.
Stay warm, keep cool
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Jun 21, 2009 - 07:13pm PT
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Must be a slow weekend for folks- you're getting trolled. A couple of harder 6's and two panels short on a nine- gee, better get that diet right along with the proper supplements, yoga and masturbation technique.
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TMarkert
Sport climber
Lansdale, PA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 21, 2009 - 07:38pm PT
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donini WTF is your problem?
A troll? show me how it is that I am a troll.
I have certian strengths from life that allows me to easily figure something out and clear it, but if a problem is presented early then I am worn out and cant go far after it.
So I got lucky on a few 7's 8's and a 9, gym owner and others call me a strong 6 if the route is short.
Yes my age and health problems, along with past injuries limit what I can do at the moment, and being new I was asking for opinions and ideas.
I WILL over come my short falls. Can you over come your instant objectivity and instant put downs to what you seem to think might be someone trolling? Can you mature mentally as fast as I do physically?
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jstan
climber
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Jun 21, 2009 - 08:15pm PT
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Tmt:
Jim just believes this is all make believe. No biggie.
For my part I keep seeing things that ring true.
This business of your being "rated a strong 6." I can see someone who really knows sh#t from shinola as to what climbing is about but who hangs around for some reason telling people where they "rate."
This person, for some reason of his, thinks climbing is a way of rating people.
Climbing is an activity from which the climber gains satisfaction. If you wish to be "rated" you may enjoy that. If you have ANY OTHER reason for being there this comment is flat out obnoxious.
Now you commented about the use of wrenches as a mechanic. When I was a mite smaller we used to be taking nuts off the wheels of our tractors. The tough ones forced us to bring out the oxyacetylene. But here's my point. I used to get a lot of fun out of trying to get the nuts off with my fingers at the earliest possible opportunity. Just to see what I could do. I approached climbing in exactly the same way - just because I enjoyed it. To feel a route starting to go long before I thought it would be possible.
Getting a nut to start turning is exactly what happens in climbing. You either can start it. Or you can't.
There is no confusion and no middle ground.
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TMarkert
Sport climber
Lansdale, PA
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 21, 2009 - 08:22pm PT
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Jstan: I agree with you completely!
The 9 that I tried was because I gave up on myself earlier in the night on a 7.. Got scared and made an excuse to give up..
So to make up for my own mind I decided to try this new 9 that alot of people were falling off of..
After 3 holds I was beat and shaking, but I forced myself to continue untill I fell and could no longer grab the dime edge needed.
Felt GREAT when I realized that I went so far, further then anyone watching expected. I actually received high 5's from almost everyone watching that knew my ability.
As far as bolts, I try every oil filter by hand before I grab the wrench, and after 8 weeks of playing on slopers I can notice a difference.
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jstan
climber
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Jun 21, 2009 - 08:27pm PT
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I'll be damned! Someone else does the oil filters. Though if it moves I know I did not get it on right the last time.
Once I got older than 18 though, if I wanted to thread my way all the way to whatever goal, I had to reduce injuries.
It is a matter of did I want to get there or did I want to get part way there.
Edit:
Jim is right. You are not going to believe it once you get on real rock.
Be really careful on the fingers. Rip one of those and you may not get it back. Take your time. You have got another twenty years.
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donini
Trad climber
Ouray, Colorado
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Jun 21, 2009 - 08:30pm PT
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TM, Lansdale huh! I was raised in Blue Bell a few miles away. Given the location. I'm sure your legit- at something, that is. Keep on working that wrench and you'll be hiking 7's in no time. Christ, before you know it- you'll be climbing outside on, dare I say it, rock!
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jbar
Social climber
urasymptote
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Jun 21, 2009 - 08:37pm PT
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Tmarkert - I'm a mechanic as well only now I'm a mekanick on ABB bots and such. I'm with ya on the upper body strength. When I first started climbing I used to pull myself up stuff nobody thought I could climb but I would get really sore forearms after. Be very careful that you warm up and then stretch before doing laps or trying anthing very technical. I jus turned 39, was in a gym not long ago working like hell to stem up between two huge holds, heard a horrible noise and found myself hangin on the rope looking up where I was and unable to move my left arm. Could be cuz I don't ever climb in a gym or maybe I was trying something I could do before but can't now. Gym's will ruin ya. Your buddy owns a gym so get a hang board program from him and build finger strength.
edit: donini is correct. Get your az outside and rock climb. You won't tear yourself up as bad, you won't contract some type of cardiovascular disease from breathing all that magnesium, and you won't have to worry about all those sweaty, snotty, oily, bloody holds.
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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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Jun 21, 2009 - 08:39pm PT
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Tom,
Find 10-12 exercises that really work you. i.e. bench press, pull downs, some sort of lat exercise, flys, reverse flys, curls, stomach exercises and backups. Do 50 reps of each exercise. It doesn't matter if you start with just the bare barbell or the light weights down in the one or two pound range. Do this three days a week for about ten or twelve weeks. Then take a ten day/two week rest and start again. Up your weight as you go and don't rest significantly between exercises.
Have no ego when working out and use perfect form, don't cheat. Endurance is the foundation of Power Endurance and Power. Without Endurance strength as a base you are just working Power Endurance and Power inefficiently.
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jbar
Social climber
urasymptote
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Jun 21, 2009 - 08:47pm PT
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oh yeah, one more thing.
My local gym prides itself on mis-grading. If you're on an 8 it's probably really a 9+. Kinda discouraging when you drop in and find yourself having the hardest time getting up 8's and can barely make a 9 while you watch all the regular gym rats walking up everything in sight.
Don't get discouraged. You mentioned making it up a 9 but couldn't nail the dime hold. All my local gym rats are sandbagging. They have climbed the same route so many times they could do it in their sleep. If I took them out on the real rock they couldn't get up an 8 as easy as the 10 in the gym. Keep warming up and working on the 9. Remember your moves and the holds and soon you will be smoothly sending it with pride. It's not more strength you need but more technique.
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jstan
climber
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Jun 21, 2009 - 09:14pm PT
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Jbar is on target as regards the wiring of routes. When you have done something a lot of times difficulty ratings mean even less than normal. And they mean next to nothing normally.
Once you are on real rock the most useful thing to do is to find a way to rest in each position the climb makes you assume. Try different foot positions, hand positions, weighting of the limbs that makes it the easiest. Get the best hold so that your body is stable against change in position. Use leverages and gravity to make it all work.
Great fun.
My first teacher, Willie Crowther gave me the best advice I ever received.
"No matter where you are or how hard the climb, learn how to be comfortable."
Then the time will come when your second will be thinking, "Holy Christ!. Tom is going to die!"
You on the other hand will be humming to yourself as you plan the system of protection you need for the next moves.
You will have become............ "a real climber."
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WBraun
climber
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Jun 21, 2009 - 09:35pm PT
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Hey Mr. Mechanic
Why you listen to these guys here? They're just a bunch of climbers.
You don't want to become a climber.
Become a real man instead ......
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jstan
climber
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Jun 21, 2009 - 09:37pm PT
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Some body post that picture of Werner with his ghettoblaster.
This version has been, ah, modified.
Edit:
Yeah. I went back to erase it but flubbed it.
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