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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Topic Author's Original Post - Jun 15, 2009 - 12:59pm PT
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Hey y'all,
Kate and I are planning on blasting off on an El Cap route at the end of the week, however she has work commitments that prevent her from climbing for the next few days. Accordingly, I would like to fix a few pitches, and wondered if there was anyone around who would like to help?
The good news is there really isn't any schlepping as the rack and water and gear are already up there. So we can just go up, hang out on the ledge, drink a beer and put up a few pitches. It's an older route, and most likely we will have to replace a bolt or two at the belays, so you can learn about that. It will also give you an opportunity to learn about some wall climbing basics, and see some cool ideas about how our systems go together. Kate has worked out an amazing system with some Ushbas that I'm dying to try.
So please email me asap if you're interested and available. I'm bivi'd in Yosemite Village at present.
Cheers,
Pete
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al_piner
climber
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Jun 15, 2009 - 01:23pm PT
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Quote :
Kate has worked out an amazing system with some Ushbas that I'm dying to try.
Ascending technique ? I played around in the past using a Basic with a chest harness to keep you in an upright position . It seemed to help but I never followed up to get it dialed in .
Don't be SHY about POSTING a report ;-)
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 15, 2009 - 01:33pm PT
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She uses the Ushbas with strong cord [rope?] in lieu of standard adjustable daisies with buckles. The advantages seem to be:
 hugely easier to operate, as you don't have to overcome the friction through the buckle, which really knackers your hands by the time you get to the summmit, resulting in a severe case of "crab claws"
you can pull yourself in much closer with the Ushba than with an adjustable daisy, and she tells me she doesn't even need an adjustable fifi, either
much much stronger than an adjustable daisy
The obvious disadvantage is the little Russian titanium buggers cost about $120 US!
Incidentally, our route isn't all horror show. The second pitch starts out with some stout-looking hooking, hence my need for a belayer. However the third pitch is rated A2, and the fourth only A1, so anyone helping out would be more than welcome to lead either of those two pitches.
It's a very cool part of the wall, actually. You really enjoy the rock so much more when you're not on a trade route. While Virginia's seven independent pitches offer superb climbing, the rest of Tangerine Trip is really just a heap.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Jun 15, 2009 - 02:22pm PT
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I use a wild country ropeman and a piece of 9mm rope as an adjustable daisy. it beats tha crap out of my real adjustable daisy. I have the one store bought and the ropeman jury rigg runnung side by side and OMG the ropeman works sooo much better! I keep threatining to buy annother ropeman but haven't thought of it when i had the extra $$$ I guess i don't aid climb enough. only a few times a year. If i ever get at all serious about it that is one of the 1st things I will take care of!!
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno
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Jun 15, 2009 - 03:40pm PT
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Hmmm... Haven't used a Ushba (I'm assuming we're talking Ushba basic) in years. Mainly stopped after a few of them cut the ropes they were on.
$120? Nah, They're $75. I believe Liberty Mountain bought them, so you should be able to get Kate a deal there, Pete. As I recall anyway...
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Thorgon
Big Wall climber
Sedro Woolley, WA
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Jun 15, 2009 - 04:34pm PT
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You Dawg, back up with Kate! One wall per trip is not enough?
Wish I had the time, would be fun and I love my USHBA. Great
for thinner diameter lines 11mm and smaller.
Normally silver, eh!
Have a blast,
Thor
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Prod
Trad climber
A place w/o Avitars apparently
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Jun 15, 2009 - 04:45pm PT
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Hey Pete,
You're a pretty detailed guy, can you explain a little better what you are talking about with the Ushba?
Are you talking about rigging this directly to your harness ala cleaning with a grigri?
Prod.
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Thorgon
Big Wall climber
Sedro Woolley, WA
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Jun 15, 2009 - 04:51pm PT
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Prod~
Sounds like they are rigging it to their harness with small diameter perlon and using it inplace of an adjustable daisy, in which case, it would also serve as a rope-rachet! Then it (USHBA) must be attached to your highest piece, then just pull the perlon cord!? Damn clever, wish I would have thought of that one all by myself, but alas I do everything the hard way! At 215 lbs and about 245 lbs with an aid rack on, I believe I will give that a try!
Thor
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Captain...or Skully
Social climber
North of the Owyhees
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Jun 15, 2009 - 04:57pm PT
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245? That means that A4 is really A5........HaHa!
Gotcha.
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Ottawa Doug
Social climber
Ottawa, Canada
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Jun 15, 2009 - 05:04pm PT
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Wish I was there, to lead the A1, that is.
Have fun Pete.
Ciao,
Doug
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Holdplease2
Big Wall climber
Yosemite area
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Jun 15, 2009 - 05:06pm PT
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Hey Guys:
The Ushba basic is rigged to the biner that holds the aider and is clipped into the piece.
There is an 8.1 mil Ice Floss Twin lead line (Sterling) about 5 feet long attached to the belay loop and leg loop, threaded up through the waist loop, like a fifi would be. You tie a stopper knot in the end of this which serves as a nice grab handle and prevents you from flying off the end if you screw up somehow.
The benefits are:
* You no longer need a fifi, as you can get as close to the aider biner as you want.
* You no longer have to deal with a twisted daisy, as the rope is round.
* If you rig them (or any daisy system, for that matter) to a swivel, you no longer have to worry about them twisting around one another. I did this with my regular daisies and it was sweet. This can put you further from your piece if you don't do it in a particular way.
* The Ice Floss is more dynamic than nylon webbing.
* There is no friction from a spring-loaded buckle, so pulling the cord through is easier than an adjustable daisy
* The release mechanism is not spring loaded and there is next to no friction, so it is easy to release and extend them with one hand
The rope is field-replaceable, unlike the strap on adjustable daisies. I hang my ledge and a few and some other stuff from extra Ice Floss. This way, if the sheath wears out or the daisy-rope gets damaged in any way, I just switch it out.
* The Ushba serves as a backup ascender in case you drop one when soloing, can be used as a backup when cleaning, and can be used as part of the hauling system if you so choose. So its more versatile than an adjustable daisy, all around.
* You can perfectly customize the length to suit you. I make mine a little long.
The risks are:
* The ushba can bind on the spine of the biner if you were to take a brief daisy fall, and this must be actively managed, but isn't too much of a pain. This is significant if you use the titanium one, as titanium is more brittle. Had I realized that I would eventually use these for this purpose, I would not have purchased the titanium ones.
* The ushba has a curved radius on the camming device, but it is possible that it could sever the rope-daisy in a hard fall. This is why we clip the rope in before passing a piece, though, and I still trust this device as much as the buckles on an adjustable daisy, which can also sever the rope.
I never climbed with adjustable daisies because I would get the strap twisted, hated that I couldnt get close enough to the piece and still needed to fifi in all of the time. I also didn't like that the buckle spring tension and friction took a toll on my hands after awhile.
The USHBA titanium are $100 online, add tax and you get to $110 or somesuch. Non-titanium are less by like $20. I bought mine for minitraxioning on ice, so I bought them at the gear shop in Ouray, which runs a bit of a markup.
I've considered the wild country ropeman, too. The ones I have are toothed but they make one with ridges that might be better.
The problem with the ropemen is that it takes two hands and some suffering to extend them back out after cinching them up. With the Ushba, you just touch the camming device with your finger and extend. Much easier.
Keep in mind that I screw around with systems for my own entertainment and never meant to say this was a good idea for anyone else. Next year I'll probably be using a system of Q-tips and tire irons instead. Who knows.
-Kate.
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Captain...or Skully
Social climber
North of the Owyhees
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Jun 15, 2009 - 05:11pm PT
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El Cap is broken?
That sux.
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deuce4
climber
Hobart, Australia
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Jun 15, 2009 - 05:11pm PT
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Learn to Swill!
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Thorgon
Big Wall climber
Sedro Woolley, WA
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Jun 15, 2009 - 05:37pm PT
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Thanks Kate: Climbers are always tinkering!
Have fun!
Thor
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno
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Jun 15, 2009 - 05:43pm PT
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Nice break-down, Kate. I was thinking that was the way you were using them. Attaching them to the harness, as others suggested, really made no sense to me. Then I got down to your post and saw I was right.
Didn't pay attention to the titanium vs. non titanium price. Doh!
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Holdplease2
Big Wall climber
Yosemite area
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Jun 15, 2009 - 05:53pm PT
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Hey Randy - Sup?
I have, actually, tried both. The one benefit to attaching the ascenders to the harness rather than the aider biner is that you can adjust the length even when you can't reach the piece, such as jacking around with your pig, going low to traverse on hooks or whatnot, or when running around at the anchor. If you run them this way, you have the figure 8 on the aider biner and your ushba on your belay loop.
Its actually easy to switch between the two systems at your leisure.
What isn't good about having the ascender on the harness is that you lose the mechanical advantage of having the daisy-rope running up through the piece. I decided in the long run it wasn't worth it to use them in this configuration.
I was surprised how much nicer it was to use the adjustable system after so many walls using traditional daisies. The traditional daises still have some advantages, in that you actually learn to "Climb" using footwork in your aiders, rather than just doing pullups with your pieces. Climbing overhanging terrain with traditional daisies teaches technique. Plus they are a full-strength connection to the anchor and your pro if used properly.
Now, with a little bit harder aid and the desire to be into two equalized pieces and the very real chance of a daisy fall, I find that the ability to stay close to all pieces and reduced risk of long daisy fall, its worth it to go to the adjustable system. It took too much time and clippity clippity to keep two standard daisies properly adjusted.
-Kate.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 15, 2009 - 06:38pm PT
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Wow - thanks for the detailed response, Kate! It's nice to hear you appreciate the distraction from your paying gig.
It looks as though I have a climber who will be able to join me on Wednesday, so I think I'm now looking for someone to climb with me only Thursday and Friday.
Cheers!
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno
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Jun 15, 2009 - 06:42pm PT
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Hey Kate. Same as you, too much getting paid, not enough sending. Work sucks.
Nice! Kate is always on top of it, as far as gear is concerned. Really checking out systems and gear and always has her sh#t dialed in. Thanks for the posts, Kate.
Pete - what are you guys on? I did the first 5 of Virginia for a photo shoot. I liked it.
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Rhodo-Router
Gym climber
a greasy pinscar near you
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Jun 15, 2009 - 06:49pm PT
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Suggestion: new thread entitled Kate's Adjustable Daisy System
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 15, 2009 - 06:51pm PT
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Yeah, for sure. I'll get a chance to try it on Wednesday. Eventually I'll take some pictures, and perhaps she can copy and paste to a new post.
But please don't ask her to do it now - she's busy with work this week so we can climb together next week.
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SteveW
Trad climber
The state of confusion
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Jun 15, 2009 - 07:17pm PT
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I'd love to Pete, but unfortunately school and all prevent me
from being there. Plus, I don't know if I'd wanna go down.
Blast it and send lots of pics!!!!
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Jun 15, 2009 - 07:27pm PT
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The ropeman works one handed after a bit of trial and error. You need to get good at grabbing that little wire with the thumb and fore finger while holding the biner w/ the rest of your hand. Works slick once you get it wired. much cheaper!! and light.
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno
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Jun 15, 2009 - 07:29pm PT
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I've thought about checking out the ropeman for solo TR... My current setup works super awesome, but like to always keep an open mind.
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Rhodo-Router
Gym climber
a greasy pinscar near you
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Jun 15, 2009 - 07:49pm PT
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I bet you could wrap a blob of tape around the swage on the little wire to make it easier....
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 15, 2009 - 09:42pm PT
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Eric - check yer email, eh?
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Jun 15, 2009 - 09:48pm PT
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Ropeman not designed to catch falls so probobly not good for TR. Works good for emergency hauling , adjustable daisy, emergency jugging etc.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 15, 2009 - 09:53pm PT
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The Ropeman is the Secret Trick of Yosemite simul-climbers...
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mark miller
Social climber
Reno
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Jun 15, 2009 - 11:45pm PT
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So you need a belayer and Jug Monkey for Thursday and Friday ?
I might be able to swing it, let me know Pete. I'm Knott up for leading any A4 pitches this week, but I can hang out on the ledge and belay you for the day.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 16, 2009 - 12:20pm PT
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Mark - that would be perfect! Please check your email, mate.
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno
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Jun 16, 2009 - 12:24pm PT
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"Ropeman not designed to catch falls so probobly not good for TR. Works good for emergency hauling , adjustable daisy, emergency jugging etc."
Neither are most of the other devices being used for solo TR (or solo aid, for that matter). Funny that the devices actually designed to catch falls are rarely used. The list of "not designed to catch falls" solo TR devices would include:
Petzl Minitraxion and Microscender (my setup), the Yates Rocker, Wild Country Ropeman, and the Ushba Basic. I could go on... Point is, most of the devices that most people use are not designed to catch a fall.
One of the things that makes some of these devices favorites for people is the fact that they (as you said) "works good for emergency hauling", which is important to a lot of valley climbers. One of the things that makes the ropeman interesting is that it doesn't have sharp teeth like an ascender.
Pete is right on, as far as the ropeman being awesome for simul climbing.
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Jun 16, 2009 - 04:50pm PT
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Mine is old so it does have the sharp teeth though mine are now dull. Not shoer if it slides as easy as the petzle?? It does work totally awsome for an adjustable daisy!
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bubble boy
Big Wall climber
T100
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Jun 16, 2009 - 08:52pm PT
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funny. i'm getting together all my shenanigans and was thinking "damn, gotta buy yet another set of thos damn useful adjustable daisies" and "what the hell am gonna do with old ushba hauler i never use?".......
i've used the ropemen in the past for the same purpose and also a kong piece that work like the adjustable fifi but was beefier. hard to give yourself slack while under any tension, though.
see yall soon.
Zak
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johnboy
Trad climber
Can't get here from there
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Jun 16, 2009 - 09:18pm PT
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I'm going to try that setup with a microcender, thanks Kate.
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Dr.Sprock
Boulder climber
Sprocketville
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Jun 16, 2009 - 09:43pm PT
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so do you wear a helmet on the approach?
i did not here one projectile the whole time i was dingin round the nose, but i saw a lot of small rocks.
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Captain...or Skully
Social climber
North of the Owyhees
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Jun 16, 2009 - 11:17pm PT
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Is el Cap fixed yet?
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waltereo
climber
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Jun 17, 2009 - 12:49am PT
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Could you post some pictures of your rig ?
Thx
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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Jun 17, 2009 - 01:17am PT
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El Cap was fixed today using Q-tips and tire irons. Damn fine job they did, looks as good as ever.
heh
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tradmanclimbs
Ice climber
Pomfert VT
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Jun 17, 2009 - 07:06am PT
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Zac, Agreed that It is tricky to give yourself slack but heck I think its tricky with my metelious rig as well. The ropeman reels it in 100 times better than the metelious Adg rig and you can give slack once you get a routine down.
If there was a rig that released easier and was still small and light I would be all for it. not shure that i would shell out $100 bucks though!
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Holdplease2
Big Wall climber
Yosemite area
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Jun 17, 2009 - 10:19am PT
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Hey Guys:
One thing I like about the Ushba thing is that there aren't any teeth that catch or have to be fully removed from the rope to release slack. This is especially nice when you are standing in your second steps and have to give yourself a little slack. In this case, you can reach down with one hand and touch the camming lever and it pays out smoothly, maintaining a little friction so you don't launch, just like a grigri.
We'll post some pics when we get done climbing, as we don't have any now. There is a gadget on Ebay from the "Gear4climbing" people which seems to work a lot like the Ushba ascender and might be a more cost effective option. I'm going to give the Ropeman with the grooves, rather than the teeth a try as well and let you know how it goes.
We fixed one pitch, what is that then, like 1600 to go. Shouldn't take long...
:)
-Kate.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 17, 2009 - 01:28pm PT
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Mark? Paging Mark?!
{crickets}
I'm heading up to the crag shortly for a day of fixing today [Wednesday] but I am still looking for a partner[s] on Thursday and Friday. So if you're interested in getting out and having fun, learning stuff, fixing a few pitches and drinking a couple beers, please email me asap.
Cheers,
Pete
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Eric McAuliffe
Trad climber
Alpine County, CA
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Jun 17, 2009 - 01:31pm PT
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PETE! sorry i did not call you the other night. I had some work plans come up and i'm not able to make it down. Hopefully you can work somthing out with someone. WHich route are you climbing? Hope it all goes well and you have a blast! The wx is looking good at the moment. PEACE
E
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Ottawa Doug
Social climber
Ottawa, Canada
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Jun 17, 2009 - 02:24pm PT
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Hey Pete,
What route are you and Kate going to do? No need to be secretive, because if it's tough, nobody else will get on it anyway.
Ciao,
Doug
P.S. It's amazing that you have your own thread about fixing. : )
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joebuzz
Trad climber
Truckee, CA.
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Jun 17, 2009 - 03:10pm PT
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I've been using a Ropeman and length of static line as an adj. daisy for years and love it. Pete, I showed it to you at the base of Gulf Stream a few years back. Not suprised you don't remember as I think it was later that day, after I left, that you took your spill. It would be good to hook up again some day Pete. Have a great trip!
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Kyle Turner
Trad climber
Santa Rosa, CA
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Jun 18, 2009 - 03:50am PT
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yo Pete... I'll be in the valley on Friday bright and early. I'm a bit of a new comer to aid climbing. I believe my buddy Donny has done some fixing with you last year, anywho if you need a partner, I'm down.
I'll be in camp 4, provided my early arrival gets me a spot.
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up2top
Big Wall climber
Phoenix, AZ
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Jun 18, 2009 - 04:14am PT
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Ed = envious
Wish I was there. What ever you're on, I hope you have a blast!
Ed
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Jun 18, 2009 - 04:46am PT
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I would laugh, but I know that this sort of thing makes sense.
PTPP has done more El Cap walls than you can count on your fingers and toes (times twice, and even after that, he's still ahead . . .) and is very much the guy who doesn't bail.
So, if you want to do the Big Wall, here's your chance to get an idea of what it takes: vertical freight hauling, at the very lowest level of commitment.
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mark miller
Social climber
Reno
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Jun 18, 2009 - 10:36am PT
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Sorry Pete but I never received your email and now I have made work commitments. I was looking forward to seeing bear 46 and wearing my hips raw hauling and jugging with you.
Enjoy the send, say hi to Kate( I was the drunk who let her play drums at the JT sushifest), hopefully we can hookup another time.
I'm bumming like a spoiled 4 year old that didn't get the bike he wanted for Christmas. Man I wish we had hooked up earlier I could've driven down and bivied with Minerals Last night and been in the Valley early today., But I have to tear out the tile in a clients kitchen so the Granite folks can come in and measure tomorrow. Disappointing clients in this economy is Knott in my best interest. I'll try knott to dwell on the loss of an adventure and take another little orange pill and go to work.
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jenren
Trad climber
Sac, CA
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Jun 18, 2009 - 11:48am PT
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Pete, have you filled the spot?
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Topic Author's Reply - Jun 18, 2009 - 12:25pm PT
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Hey Kyle, thanks for the offer. Sounds good for tomorrow. Chris and Jana are here for today, but we could possibly use a bit more help tomorrow.
Doug - the route is Bad Seed, to the immediate right of BUBS which we climbed last year, and just right of Zodiac. So far, so good. I knocked off the A3 hooking yesterday - scary above a horrific ledge fall. [Can you say "duct tape"?] It looks a lot easier above.
Sorry I missed you Mark and Eric - let's stay in touch over the summer as we'll be at it again in September and October.
Joebuzz - always a pleasure! C'mon back out! Yes I remember your Ropeman trick.
Jenren - we'll type tonight, see what's happening.
Tom - thanks. You've always been a fun and solid partner.
Oh yeah, tried Kate's Ushbas yesterday - very cool!
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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Jun 25, 2009 - 05:15pm PT
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Kate, do you have pics of your daisy sys in action by any chance?
thx,
M
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Ain't no flatlander
climber
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Bump for a rig photo.
FWIW the Camp Lift ascender is the same design as a Ushba Basic except it's lighter, cheaper ($50), and actually CE certified (neither can pass UIAA for a silly reason).
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