First padded sling? Rock lovers unite.

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Chicken Skinner

Trad climber

Yosemite

Topic Author's Original Post - May 17, 2009 - 11:44pm PT

Who semi-mass produced the first padded sling? Was it this one purchased in 1979 by our own George R. who inadvertently wore off the logo by climbing with it too much. Shame on you George. In the plastic spirit, who was it?

Another try in case the lack of trad gear through you off.
Ken

climber

May 17, 2009 - 11:57pm PT

'looks like a Latok one I had, but '79 predates that...

The first one I got in about '81 was a Buttermilk Mountain Works (BMW) padded gear sling...

Chicken Skinner

Trad climber

Yosemite

Topic Author's Reply - May 18, 2009 - 12:01am PT

Nope! Good guess though.

Ken

SteveW

Trad climber

The state of confusion

May 18, 2009 - 12:20am PT

I know Forrest made one about '74 or '75. . .
I've still got mine!

Chicken Skinner

Trad climber

Yosemite

Topic Author's Reply - May 18, 2009 - 12:33am PT

Aliester, Yes, good job. Was there an earlier commercial padded model? I started padding mine in 1972.

Ihateplastic

Trad climber

Lake Oswego, Oregon

May 18, 2009 - 12:52am PT

I had a couple of Forrest ones... he had those cool ones with like paisley on 'em. Now where is that thing...

Chicken Skinner

Trad climber

Yosemite

Topic Author's Reply - May 18, 2009 - 01:04am PT

Jerry Garcia model? I have some of those but, mine are threadbare. Anyone have one in mint condition? Would love to have one! Those Forrest rigs are only half-way there, partially padded and definitely knot.

Ken

P.S. Aliester, I think of myself as one of the youngest old timers around (funny thing is spell check had an alternative for oldtimer as Mortimer, one of Walt's many nicknames). How about that?

Ken

SteveW

Trad climber

The state of confusion

May 19, 2009 - 05:11pm PT

Ken
Here's a pic of mine, but it's still in use as you
can see. . . so I can't give it up for the museum
yet. . .

Brian in SLC

Social climber

Salt Lake City, UT

May 19, 2009 - 06:17pm PT

Not sure if a hammer sling counts, but, my bet is this is an early one:

'67 vintage?

-Brian in SLC

donini

Trad climber

Ouray, Colorado

May 19, 2009 - 06:30pm PT

Don't use a sling anymore- gave them up 10 years ago. I have a little of "belayers neck" syndrome and slings are uncomfortable. I can get enough on my gear loops for IC, the Black Canyon or alpine rock in Patagonia.

karabin museum

Trad climber

phoenix, az

Nov 22, 2009 - 11:18pm PT

Dolt sold padded gear slings in November 1967.
Rock on! Marty

Lynne Leichtfuss

Sport climber

Will know soon

Nov 23, 2009 - 12:12am PT

Dug this out of Dan's old climbing stuff, very early 70's. I think Dan and my Bro made their own slings cause of the name embroidered on it. Why the 3 velcro squares on the back of the sling ? ( Think I only got one in this photo) Peace, lynnie

bvb

Social climber

flagstaff arizona

Nov 23, 2009 - 12:16am PT

maybe the velcro was part of a rapid removal system for placements you knew you'd have to plug in a hurry?

WBraun

climber

Nov 23, 2009 - 12:18am PT

That's right, rapid removal.

Remember Tony Yanaro had Velcro all over on his slings.

Lynne Leichtfuss

Sport climber

Will know soon

Nov 23, 2009 - 12:20am PT

Thanks bvb, Dan-o was into muy rapido mode when needed. Peace

Edit: Thanks also, Werner. Weird, but when yo two posted I felt a real sense of connection with Dan. Gezzzz, life and such is way strange. But a big thanks for making his being real to me again. lynne

Jaybro

Social climber

Wolf City, Wyoming

Nov 23, 2009 - 01:13am PT

I am still climbing with a Fish™ adjustable padded sling that I bought in 1984. Just like the one below

Actually this Cowpoke and I bought ours the same day in the same Parking lot at the same time. and there's nothing wrong with that.

dogtown

Trad climber

JackAssVille, Wyoming

Nov 23, 2009 - 04:21am PT

I have a first generation Chouinard sling. ( not for sale ) no pad. But I have a collar on my shirt. you dig?

Tom

Big Wall climber

San Luis Obispo CA

Nov 23, 2009 - 04:27am PT

No pics, because I don't have them anymore (whimper).

MEMORY: Two mid-70's Chouinard GPIW gear slings, made from brown 2" flat webbing, with a rolled-and-sewn place to clip your clips. And strong enough for belay anchors. Totally craftsman-like, in their creation.

Back in the day, the GPIW was THE source. The only source worth seeking.

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Nov 23, 2009 - 09:33am PT

Bill Forrest was selling a padded sling, optionally part of his Pin Bin system, by 1971.
The first versions were not full-strength as runners, however. I think he used 2" wide
guitar shoulder straps (sewn to stronger nylon that formed the gear-carrying part)
for a colorful effect. There might have been an adjustable buckle involved too.

TKingsbury

Trad climber

Nov 23, 2009 - 11:55am PT

I picked up this Forrest sling in an ebay auction along with some tube chocks, cam locks, leeper Z pins and a hammer...figured I should post it up.

Chiloe mentioned the Pin Bin, I looked it up and found an article describing it...sounds like it might be it...

"...Pin Bin, a metal loop with a springloaded mechanism that made it easy to organize gear and get it on and off easily."

http://www.snewsnet.com/snews/gt_upload/winter07_IndustryTrailblazers_outdoor.pdf

Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

Nov 23, 2009 - 12:27pm PT

That's a butte! Sure is. Gotta move it, though, the railroads a comin' right now!

Too funny, Jaybro!

Jaybro

Social climber

Wolf City, Wyoming

Nov 23, 2009 - 12:29pm PT

I believe that IS a forest pin bin, haven't seen one in years!

TKingsbury

Trad climber

Nov 23, 2009 - 12:38pm PT

Cool to find out what it actually was/is called...pretty funky!

jiimmy

Boulder climber

san diego

Nov 23, 2009 - 03:02pm PT

what did the poor chicken do to you?

steelmnkey

climber

Vision man...ya gotta have vision...

Nov 23, 2009 - 03:36pm PT

Nice Pin Bin... here's a couple old examples...padded and unpadded...

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Nov 23, 2009 - 04:04pm PT

Bill Forrest was a really creative inventing things in the early 70s. Not all of them (like Pin Bins) caught on, but others (like sewn leg loops, aiders, copperheads, tough haul bags, fiberglass tool handles ...) looked like great ideas, and well executed, when he first brought them out.

The concept behind the Pin Bins was that they could hold more pitons than a biner, with easier access. If you've climbed with a piton rack, you know what a thorn-tree they become as you add more than three or four pins per biner. Bill had thought of a way around that, but it was too uni-functional (I guess) to appeal to most wall climbers.

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Nov 23, 2009 - 04:06pm PT

So this is way back in fog country, but I think Forrest had an earlier version of the Pin Bin with a simple spring opening -- the offset-piston opening in TK's photo above was a second-generation refinement.

Problem with the spring version was that if it caught the wrong way, all the pins on that bin could fall out.

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Nov 23, 2009 - 04:19pm PT

Shrapnel!

steelmnkey

climber

Vision man...ya gotta have vision...

Nov 23, 2009 - 04:25pm PT

Never seen one with a spring clip (assume you mean like a biner gate)... here's a couple shots of the one I have...

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Nov 23, 2009 - 04:33pm PT

Steelmonkey's are definitely 2nd-gen. The first ones I'm recalling (vaguely) were simpler than a biner -- just a single bent piece of steel, thinning on one side at the opening so you could snap pitons in or out.

They had the same general shape as Steelmonkey's, though.

Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

Nov 23, 2009 - 09:10pm PT

Here is an action shot of the third generation Pinbin taken on the summit of Baboquivari Peak after doing the Spring Route, a Bill Forrest and George Hurley adventure and my first big wall. I just went digging and couldn't find it for show and tell. Tightly sewn slots for the individual Pinbins and thick rubber stop washers solved the grommet flopping problems of the earlier models.

Brilliant concept as far as freeing up all of your carabiners and saving weight but any thrashing around in the inevitable tight corner or chimney and the gear would proceed to rain down!

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Nov 23, 2009 - 09:24pm PT

Used 'em on the FA of Forrest-Walker, didn't he?

Lynne Leichtfuss

Sport climber

Will know soon

Nov 23, 2009 - 09:33pm PT

Steve Grossman, Mimi......your Dude is a cutey pie....hehehe. Did you know him back then ? lynnie

rockermike

Trad climber

Berkeley

Nov 23, 2009 - 10:02pm PT

mid '70's; Forrest; I still have mine; hippy flowery decor with hunk of 8 mill stitched in for the clip part. More or less like the one posted up thread.

Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

Nov 23, 2009 - 10:03pm PT

Lynne- We were both jailbait and she was still a freshie in highschool back when that one was taken. LOL

Let's see if you can spot the Pinbins?

From Climb.

Jaybro

Social climber

Wolf City, Wyoming

Nov 23, 2009 - 10:09pm PT

You just don't get content this cool anywhere else this side of the wide fetish!

Ray Olson

Trad climber

Imperial Beach, California

Nov 23, 2009 - 11:12pm PT

this is the coolest stuff in a long time.
neat to know Dolt did the first padded
number on a gear sling - pin bins had
advocates, as Steve points out, and I
always thought the colorful "guitar
strap" effect on the regular Forrest
slings was pretty great too.

Bill Forrest was quite the creative force*,
and showed an uncanny eye for using
certain materials, and for some concepts
that were way advanced.

I still think of him as being, for the most
part, the father of the modern climbing
harness - in terms of its essential configuration,
then refined with the now standard "front loop"
when Petzl introduced the Jump harness, with its
then radical tubular webbing produced on computerized
Jaccard looms.

I cut up a Jump harness and sent swatches of the Petzl
webbing out to some major U.S. textile mills, they had
no idea what it was, or how it was done - it blew their
doors off! Pretty funny.

way cool everyone - thanks for posting.

*edit - as mentioned by Chiloe upthread :-)

TKingsbury

Trad climber

Nov 24, 2009 - 09:58am PT

awesome stuff, thanks for the info y'all!

hooblie

climber

sounding out stuff , in the manner of crickets

Nov 24, 2009 - 10:17am PT

when oriented properly, the shape of the pin bin provided a flat side on top which was angled back enough so that when removing one of the middle pitons, the upper ones, which would normally be cascading down to complicate the action at the gate,
would rest in a stable fashion up on top

TKingsbury

Trad climber

Nov 24, 2009 - 10:22am PT

yeah, looks like mine is all flipped around, haven't tried it out...been sitting around in the gear closet...I was mainly after the tube chocks...

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Nov 24, 2009 - 10:39am PT

Let's see if you can spot the Pinbins?

Thanks, Steve, I thought I remembered such a photo! So they were used on the FA of Forest-Walker, and I think maybe on the Forrest Finish to the Yellow Wall as well?

Anyone know what Bill is up to these days? He was quite the inventor BITD.

steelmnkey

climber

Vision man...ya gotta have vision...

Nov 24, 2009 - 11:12am PT

Last I heard, Forrest was in Salida, CO. I made a few attempts to get in touch with him to interview him about his early climbing in Arizona, but it never happened. Still like to talk to him someday.

Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

Nov 26, 2009 - 10:24pm PT

How about the first commercial double wall gear sling? Mimi's classic J-Rat special from the mid eighties.

Great design and burly construction!

And all the modern conveniences, quick strips and chest harness loops for those BIG overhangs.

Brian in SLC

Social climber

Salt Lake City, UT

Dec 21, 2009 - 01:17pm PT

Artist formerly known as jrat in his natural environment...(the Utah desert a couple months back):

The first ones I'm recalling (vaguely) were simpler than a biner -- just a single bent piece of steel, thinning on one side at the opening so you could snap pitons in or out.

But, not one of these?

Kind of a slick rig.

Cheers,

-Brian in SLC

Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

Apr 7, 2010 - 12:04am PT

My bandolier finally surfaced!

I think that this is a later generation than the ones shown earlier with the grommet in the strap. Bar tacks form the slots for the individual Pinbins. I added several more with the white piece of webbing.

Two of the original versions of the Pinbins made from a single piece of drawn wire before the spring-loaded gate came into use.

Best thing ever for holding tie-offs!

Fritz

Trad climber

Hagerman, ID

Apr 7, 2010 - 12:29am PT

Steve: Way cool piece of climbing history. Glad you found it.

When I first read the post: I had a similar thought when someone mentioned: padded Forest slings in Paisley. I thought "Christ---I still have one. Then I couldn't find it.

Over the winter, I dug it out and posted it in a Royal Robbins Birthday thread back in Feb. http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=1089550&msg=1091782

I think I took it home from my outdoor shop in the late 70's, after no-one would buy it.

TomCochrane

Trad climber

Boulder Creek CA

Apr 7, 2010 - 12:42am PT

I still have padded hardware slings that I made in the early 60's

And then later discovered that repurposed Kelty pack straps work great

Mighty Hiker

climber

Vancouver, B.C.

Apr 7, 2010 - 12:43am PT

So Steve, how do you place those trapezoidal thingies, anyway? Are they active or passive? What sort of load are they good for if well-placed?

Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

Apr 7, 2010 - 01:03am PT

By your side, both and a load of misery if in a chimney.

For the photo, I stripped off the two layers of blue ensolite hand-stiched in place to take the bite out of that cotton strap. That and many wraps of cloth tape altered many a fine Forrest product for my end use! LOL

Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

Apr 18, 2010 - 12:20pm PT

Padded cell Bump!

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Apr 18, 2010 - 12:36pm PT

Yep, Steve's photos upthread show both the 2nd-generation (piston) and 1st-generation (simple spring loop) Pin Bins I mentioned earlier. I recall Bill as a regular visitor to Holubar Mountaineering, ca. 1970-71, where he would show off his latest inventions.

I wasn't persuaded by the Pin Bins, but adopted other Forrest innovations like his sewn aiders, leg loops, copperheads, foxheads, and Grade IV pack (still got it!) as fast as Bill brought them out.

Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

May 16, 2010 - 04:45pm PT

Forrest gear failing to perform was never an issue and I still have some aiders in use. I wonder if he ever got sued on product performance?

Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

May 17, 2010 - 10:18am PT

Chiloe- Any chance that you have some late sixties/early seventies era Holubar catalogs showing their hardware offerings? Do you recall ever seeing ringless angles sold bearing the Holubar stamp and when those might have started showing up for sale?

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

May 17, 2010 - 10:31am PT

Steve, I had Holubar catalogs long ago but I think they've disappeared over the years. The only catalogs still in my collection are a few early-70s Chouinard.

Don't recall their climbing hardware but I practically lived in a Holubar NP-22 parka for several years. It lives on in many of my slides from that period. I had some of the pre-goldline Columbia white rope they sold, too. Part of that still survives as a dog leash.

One catalog I really wish I'd kept was the first-year North Face, from which I learned what the logo means and where that brand got its name. I do still have a first-gen North Face down sleeping bag, which has outlasted many synthetic bags over the years.

Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

Jun 12, 2010 - 03:04pm PT

Here's a teaser for all you sewn gear freaks! Who came up with the first commercial all sewn hammer holster and when?!?

This might be a contender...but I can't exactly date it.

SteveW

Trad climber

The state of confusion

Jun 12, 2010 - 07:15pm PT

Oh, cap'n history, you look dreamy in those knickers!!!!!

(hee hee hee, Stevo. Just kiddin', of course. I had a pair
just like 'em)!

Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

Jun 22, 2010 - 01:54am PT

Soft goods bump!

steelmnkey

climber

Vision man...ya gotta have vision...

Jun 22, 2010 - 09:27am PT

I have one of those JRat holsters around somewhere.
Would be circa late 80', early 90's timeframe.

Patrick Oliver

Boulder climber

Fruita, Colorado

Jun 22, 2010 - 01:10pm PT

I always hated those kinds of slings, because I couldn't
slide them around. The pad would get stuck in the carabiners,
or they would slide around on their own. More often than not
the small part of the sling would end up on my shoulder and the
pad somewhere in the way, below. Plus it seemed like
too much of a luxury... as would prove to be the way of the
world in subsequent years. Back when, we had some strange notion
that a certain pain was right and good, i.e. the Kamps-esque,
single loop of rope to tie in with, painful if you fell... but
it kept us from falling!

TrundleBum

Trad climber

Las Vegas

Jun 22, 2010 - 03:05pm PT

I have one of those things as well
(even use it once in a while if I have to rack a cpl of pins)

What is it called and who made it, I'd like to know?

Mighty Hiker

climber

Vancouver, B.C.

Jun 22, 2010 - 04:14pm PT

Why are we talking about padded cells here? It seems a bit too close to the truth for comfort.

Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

Jun 23, 2010 - 10:36am PT

Trundlebum- Check out some other piton carriers here.

http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.php?topic_id=1077283&tn=20

Steve Grossman

Trad climber

Seattle, WA

Jul 17, 2010 - 12:50am PT

First holster bump!

TomCochrane

Trad climber

Boulder Creek CA

Jul 17, 2010 - 04:26am PT

I custom built a padded gear sling in the early sixties. Then I soon started using a Kelty Pack strap for a gear sling. They were sold as a pair, so I'd use one and give the other to my climbing partner. You can see one that I gave Mike Hoover being used in the movie 'Solo'.

I have some early Chouinard gear slings. I also have a series of early hammer holsters.

Back in the days before harnesses, when we used swami belts, Royal and I discussed seat slings for hanging belays. He made two and gave me one of them that I still have. Then he made two of them large enough to use for a hammock and gave me one of those that I still have. IMHO the Robbins seat sling works better than the hammock.

But then I gravitated towards a home-made seat harness for roped solo aid climbing. The Camp 4 crowd thought it was sort of wimpy. But then memories of bruised ribs led to the common adoption of seat harnesses. Of course that was why I built my first harness; while practicing falls in a parachute rigging loft to test my secret solo belay device (a precursor to bungee jumping).

couchmaster

climber

pdx

Dec 8, 2011 - 05:31pm PT

Well, I went and lost my adjustable Chouninard gear sling (and all the gear attached too) and when I went to replace it by perusing the Fish site, it looks like Fish doesn't make an adjustable model now?

Am I high, or is Jaybro holding a rare museum piece now?

Where's that Fish poster?!!!!!

Knott this one.

tolman_paul

Trad climber

Anchorage, AK

Dec 8, 2011 - 06:04pm PT

Fortunately I still have my adj padded Choinard harness, and more importantly the associated rack. I don't recall it every dumping my rack, nor the padding rotating away from my shoulder.

I looked at Yates website and they make a pretty spiffy gearsling.

Fish Finder

climber

Oct 20, 2015 - 02:59pm PT

Hey Chicken Skinner
You want these?

Dolt Sling Padded medium blue and yellow
&
Troll Made in England Whillans style seat harness adapted for
Great Pacific Iron Works Chouinard
All white

Both used and pretty clean

Mungeclimber

Trad climber

Nothing creative to say

Oct 20, 2015 - 03:15pm PT

nice

Gnome Ofthe Diabase

climber

Out Of Bed

Apr 1, 2016 - 04:49pm PT

Bump, where is frog?

Ray Olson

Trad climber
Imperial Beach, California

Nov 23, 2009 - 11:12pm PT
this is the coolest stuff in a long time.
neat to know Dolt did the first padded
number on a gear sling - pin bins had
advocates, as Steve points out, and I
always thought the colorful "guitar
strap" effect on the regular Forrest
slings was pretty great too.

Bill Forrest was quite the creative force*,
and showed an uncanny eye for using
certain materials, and for some concepts
that were way advanced.

I still think of him as being, for the most
part, the father of the modern climbing
harness - in terms of its essential configuration,
then refined with the now standard "front loop"
when Petzl introduced the Jump harness, with its
then radical tubular webbing produced on computerized
Jaccard looms.

I cut up a Jump harness and sent swatches of the Petzl
webbing out to some major U.S. textile mills, they had
no idea what it was, or how it was done - it blew their
doors off! Pretty funny.

way cool everyone - thanks for posting.

*edit - as mentioned by Chiloe upthread :-)