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Ammon
Big Wall climber
Lake Arrowhead
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Topic Author's Original Post - Jul 28, 2005 - 03:26am PT
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I sat on El Cap Bridge staring at the Captain for the third day in a row. I was waiting for my best El Cap partner, “Fly’n” Brian McCray to show up. He broke down a hundred miles out of Las Vegas and was having an epic time trying to find the right part for his van in the small town of Baidy. We had BIG plans for some El Cap ascents. My cell reception was marginal but I got through to Brian. He sounded like he was at his wits end and not very happy.
“I won’t be too upset if you want to climb something with someone else. I’m not sure when I can make it there”, he said.
I too was pretty bummed. Brian and I have a great time together climbing in a style that I’ve grown to love. Most of our ascents have been smooth, quick and without a glitch.
Shaking my head in dismay I walked to my car wondering how I will spend the next few weeks before I have to go back to the suffer-fest, I call work.
I saw my good friend Ivo racking up near the bridge as I went to my car, heading for some coffee.
“What are you guys racking up for”, I asked?
“We’re going to climb Zenyatta Mondatta”, Ivo said.
Damn, I was psyched and bummed at the exact same moment. Having soloed the route before, I knew it was a challenging route and always dreamed of trying to climb ZM in a day. A lot of really strong teams have tried the first one day ascent but didn’t quite get it under a day.
I introduced myself to Ivo’s partner, Kevin. “Good to meet you bro, I’m Ammon”.
I watched them rack for a while and started wondering how I could weasel my way into their adventure. Just as Kevin was leaving I asked Ivo if he would be interested in a third person to their team.
“Hell yeah, hold on… let me ask Kevin”. Kevin got a huge smile on his face, jumped out of his rig and embraced the idea, fully. The plan hatched.
I was a bit skeptical not knowing Kevin’s experience but was willing to give it a try since I had nothing…. Or should I say nobody else to climb with, in the style I wanted to climb El Cap in. Kevin was honest about his experience (lots of bigwalls but never big pushes), he seemed like a fun person to be with on the big stone and I was stoked to be a part of the crew. Ivo, on the other hand, is the funniest most psyched partner I’ve ever roped up with. I knew we would have a good time, no matter what.
Well, we set off at around 9am the next day. Zac and Gene hung out at the base, being both support crew and peanut gallery at the same time. I led the first four pitches without to much adversity. I was still a bit dubious about how we would actually do until Kevin took over the lead. He was a natural. He told me that he had never led in blocks and never led more than a pitch at a time.
I led the first four and he led the next four in pretty good time. He was truly stoked and I could see that he had what it takes to keep moving in the bigwall pushes.
We did have a little hiccup on the 10th pitch when a small hook move broke off while I was hooking and I took a 40 foot whip. The expanding flake that was originally there had fallen off and you could clearly see that the feature was gone. I got close to the belay and had to call for a make-shift cheater stick. I was twelve inches from reaching a bolt right before the anchor.
I was pretty taxed after that lead. Ivo took over for three pitches and then Kevin led us to the top. I was pretty impressed with his performance, especially since he had never tried doing anything like this before. We ended up with a time of 22 hours and 56 minutes.
The first one day ascent of Zenyatta Mondatta. Good job lads!!!
OOOaaahhhh!!!!
Ivo and Kevin preparing to clean the belay
Ammon cleaning
Ivo Ninov at the belay
Kevin leading the "Lighting Bolt Roofs"
Kevin... sending
Kevin Jaramillo at the belay
Ammmon cleaning....
Ammon at the belay
The Summit!!!!
http://www.rocknclimb.com/elcapspeed.html
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Watusi
Social climber
Joshua Tree, CA
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Jul 28, 2005 - 03:34am PT
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Really Good Show Mates!!!!
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Budha
Trad climber
Mountains
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Jul 28, 2005 - 10:49am PT
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Props to the boys!
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Oakville, Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Jul 28, 2005 - 11:11am PT
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Nice work, lads!
Kevin and partner followed me and Tom up Tribal Rite this spring. Trip report and photos to follow.
Ammon - what pixel width did you use for these photos? They're about perfect for this McTopo forum.
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David
Trad climber
San Rafael, CA
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Jul 28, 2005 - 11:25am PT
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re."Ammon - what pixel width did you use for these photos? "
Right click on the photos and select "properties" to view the dimensions.
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elcap-pics
climber
Crestline CA
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Jul 28, 2005 - 12:20pm PT
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Nice stuff and a great climb... just wondering how you can post the pics on this site directly like you just did?
Tom
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Irisharehere
Trad climber
Gunks
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Jul 28, 2005 - 12:37pm PT
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What El Cap routes have yet to see a sub-24 hour ascent?
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up2top
Big Wall climber
Phoenix, AZ
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Jul 28, 2005 - 12:56pm PT
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Ammon -- great job! You guys hardly looked baked at the top. Fresh and ready to head right back another one, huh?
Tom -- you have to host the photos somewhere on a website. Either upload them to a site of your own, or you can upload them to any of a number of free photo hosting websites. I just started using one called "photobucket":
http://photobucket.com/
BTW -- MUCH thanks for the slides!! They were very nice shots.
Ed
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Ammon
Big Wall climber
Lake Arrowhead
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 28, 2005 - 02:06pm PT
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"what is the big deal? nice work but isn't this like your 20th 1 day ascent? what was different this time?"
Zenyatta is a classic route that a lot of really strong teams have tried to do in a day. A lot of the other FOD's I've done are pretty obscure and nobody has ever tried to do them in a day. It's a noteworthy ascent.
"What El Cap routes have yet to see a sub-24 hour ascent?"
Check out my page at: http://www.rocknclimb.com/elcapspeed.html
Here's some photos by Zac Tourville "WigBall"
Ammon leading the 4th pitch
Zac's website is at:
http://wigballphoto.com
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Shack
Trad climber
So. Cal.
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Jul 28, 2005 - 02:39pm PT
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Wow. that's quite the fattie that Ivo's about to spark...
Nice send!
Ammon, how about posting some of your better "efficient" climbing tips, I'm sure we (meaning us "off the couch",
slow, older, fatter climbers) could use any advice/tips you could fling our way.
Ok, I'll get you started.
Shack's speed climbing tip #1.
1. Have the bowl packed or the doobies rolled ahead of time.
This can be a big time saver.
Now your turn.
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up2top
Big Wall climber
Phoenix, AZ
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Jul 28, 2005 - 03:41pm PT
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Ammon, did Zac top out on the Sea? I left when h was about 1/2 way up and haven't heard a report since.
Ed
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David
Trad climber
San Rafael, CA
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Jul 28, 2005 - 03:45pm PT
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I like the sport climbing photos on the WigBall site.
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Ammon
Big Wall climber
Lake Arrowhead
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 28, 2005 - 03:56pm PT
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LOL, that's a good one Shack.
I think the most important thing is to keep the leader moving. Try to always have upward progress and no down time at belay exchanges. If you're climbing in a team of three and your block is over, have the next leader jug the haul line, have the rack ready for him/her and get them going ASAP.
Use the double-figure-eight to equalize belays. We have six lockers and rotate three at a time. Rack your gear on two different slings. It cuts into your shoulder but suck it up because it's way faster to pass/tag the gear to the leader when they need it. On one side/sling rack draws/biners and the other rack all protection, cams, pins, etc. That way if the leader wants one or the other they are ready available.
Back up your belay with a screamer. Here's a pic of what it should look like:
(This is a pic from Virginia)
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Ammon
Big Wall climber
Lake Arrowhead
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 28, 2005 - 04:00pm PT
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Hey Ed,
No, Zac bailed. He had a tough day on "Hook or Book", got off route and scared himself silly.
He did a push ascent on T-Trip, via the first four of Virginia a few days later. Zac led most of the route.
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BitchMcFist
Big Wall climber
Fallujah
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Jul 28, 2005 - 04:23pm PT
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Props to Erik Sloan for Power Retro-Bolting the piss out of it so it would go in a day.
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Ammon
Big Wall climber
Lake Arrowhead
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 28, 2005 - 04:46pm PT
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The temps were not too bad, a little warm down low but had a breeze that cooled things off. It got pretty hot after this ascent, though.
BitchMcFist, I don't think Erik bolted the piss out of ZM and this had absolutely nothing to do with the time. He did install a bolt/hanger where a rivet used to be at the "Nine O'Clock Roof". I can't remember if it's still there because I didn't lead that pitch.
I will mention that I'm not a big fan of those huge ass button heads (I think Minerals installed them). You have to own some pretty big wired hangers to get them over the huge head.
Oh, I should also mention that the end of the 10th pitch fell off (it was an expanding flake). There’s natural hooking now and you can get really close to the belay but leaves you at least a foot away from clipping a bolt right below the anchor (we had to rig a cheater stick out of a funkness, my first cheater move ever, bummer).
I think a rivet should be added right below the small roof. Thoughts?
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poop_tube
Trad climber
Irvine, CA
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Jul 28, 2005 - 05:15pm PT
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DUUUUUDE! You guys look like you had a blast up there. You look so casual in those pics. Congrats!
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Shack
Trad climber
So. Cal.
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Jul 28, 2005 - 05:15pm PT
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Are they 3/8" or 1/4" button heads?
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Minerals
Social climber
The Deli
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Jul 28, 2005 - 05:20pm PT
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Nice send guys!
Yeah, Ammon, I did install those first four 3/8” buttonheads… And you know why…
If the feature on pitch 10 fell off and there is now a totally blank spot, it seems like it would be a good idea to place a 1/4" buttonhead with two washers – like the rivets at the beginning of pitch 6.
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up2top
Big Wall climber
Phoenix, AZ
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Jul 28, 2005 - 05:25pm PT
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Damn -- sorry to hear about Zac's bail. I was on Zodiac the day he nearly bought it on hook or book and I knew he took a rest day afterward. The previous day he resorted to taking OFF his harness to do the 5.9 off-width on the pitch below. He did it tied in to just a swami. Hard core. I know my head would have been F'd up after two days like that.
INC -- the correct HTML tag is just {img} as the beginning tag, but in brackets like this [ ], followed by the URL of the pic, and closed off with this tag[/img]
Ed
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yo
climber
NOT Fresno
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Jul 28, 2005 - 05:37pm PT
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Ammon, what's the watch for?
hahahaaahahah
Thanks for posting up. It honestly inspires folks.
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Loom
climber
Sierra Nevada
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Jul 28, 2005 - 05:46pm PT
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Congratulations yet again.
Scott
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Jul 28, 2005 - 05:47pm PT
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Ammon,
So there are no great secrets, just bring a fistfull of lockers, a few screamers, and some noDoz. Cool, I know where to get that stuff. I'll also bring an extra gear sling--good tip. (I'll just tie up some dental floss to save weight....)
Lend me a hand, though, bro. Where do I get the rocket pack?
:- k
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malabarista
Trad climber
San Francisco, Ca
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Jul 28, 2005 - 09:04pm PT
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The summit photo alone is priceless!
Thanks guys!
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BCD
Trad climber
Mammoth Lakes, CA
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Jul 28, 2005 - 09:07pm PT
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Yikes! All that spray makes it kind of difficult to read your post. You should put a warning in the title:
Shameless Spray inside - Do not open without goggles!
Spraying about your accomplishments makes people question your intentions. Did you do it because it would be fun? Did you do it because it would be challenging? Or did you do it simply so you could spray all over the internet?
Listening to people spray about themselves in a bar or climbing shop always makes me laugh (anyone ever seen one of Hans Florines slideshows?!?!). And it think it’s even funnier when people start threads to spray about themselves on the internet.
But writing your time in the dust on the back of your truck made me laugh out loud. Good stuff!
In the future, you might want to come up with an alias, and talk about "Ammon's" accomplishments in the third person. Humility is a virtue.
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Wrathchild
climber
right behind you
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Jul 28, 2005 - 10:07pm PT
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Virtue, yes. But counterproductive to sponsorship deals.
Look closely at the photos, see the belays...
BitchMcFist. You sir, are correct. I was there, I saw it.
I propose the S rating, denoting climbs that have been "Sloaned"
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
one pass away from the big ditch
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Jul 28, 2005 - 10:14pm PT
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Ammon,
Was this the gal on Zod last week?
They were down by Sunday the 24th for sure, if so.
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Pat Spydell
climber
Berkeley, CA
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Jul 28, 2005 - 11:30pm PT
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Hey BCD,
watch your tone. you're talking about Ammon McNeely. no need for that. he's just sharing his trip report with his homies. believe me, he doesn't need to needlessly spray.
and why don't we stop rippin on E.S. its getting a bit old. Any vertical skills I have (or think I have) I learned from him. I've bolted with him many times and there's nothing shady about his methods.
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Fluoride
Trad climber
on a rock or mountain out west
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Jul 29, 2005 - 12:03am PT
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Hey munge....I didn't know you knew Micah. How recent is the pic? Is he up there now? That guy is a blast. Can't believe he's only been climbing about 2 years. Way talented.
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addiroid
Big Wall climber
Long Beach, CA
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Jul 29, 2005 - 01:45am PT
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congratulations gentlemen. sick. way sick. good job.
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
one pass away from the big ditch
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Jul 29, 2005 - 01:53am PT
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Nah, i know nobody these days.
Just Ammon had mentioned she (maybe it was her, not sure) was up on Zod in that heat and Sunday we saw her on the ground. Was just updating.
I wish I knew more folks, then I could bribe them into humping loads of beer to the base of Sentinel for me.
I think that's the next goal. Deciding on a line now.
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poop_tube
Trad climber
Irvine, CA
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Jul 29, 2005 - 02:03am PT
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Hey Fluoride, do you have Micah's contact info? Can you email it to me if you do?
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up2top
Big Wall climber
Phoenix, AZ
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Jul 29, 2005 - 02:37am PT
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BCD, have you ever met Ammon? I'm guessing not. He's about one of the most humble, likeable, and unpretentious individuals I've ever met.
Having had a few conversations with him over the years, I can't think of many other people who climb for the love of the sport more than he does. Sure he's proud of his accomplishments, but he gets just as stoked for you or anyone else for pushing your own limits. I hope you get the chance to met the dude -- and for that matter, the rest of his family. Good people, and a lot of fun to hang out with regardless of how hard you climb.
Ed
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Ammon
Big Wall climber
Lake Arrowhead
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 29, 2005 - 03:07am PT
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Haa haa haa, too funny BCD. Yeah, it sounds like spray but really just want people to realize that they can climb in the same style and have a blast doing it.
There’s a lot of folks out there that have never tried push ascents that really shine on their first attempt at it....
BTW, it was Zac who drew the picture.... and I think Ivo wrote our time in Kevin's dusty back window. We just posed by it because he asked us to.
Cheers guys, hope to see you out there pushing it to the MAX!!! (the maximum at your level)
Yep, that's Sara from Alaska in the pic... one badass monkeyette.
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poop_tube
Trad climber
Irvine, CA
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Jul 29, 2005 - 03:55am PT
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I don't think Ammon is "spraying." I think he is just sharing something we are all interested in. (what up2top said ^ )
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mark miller
Social climber
Reno
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Jul 29, 2005 - 10:02am PT
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Hey Munge, I ran into that gal on fairvew Tuesday and she said she'd just finished Zodiac. My partner new her, I don't think I ever got her name.
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Lambone
Ice climber
Ashland, Or
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Jul 29, 2005 - 10:27am PT
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thanks for the TR and pics Ammon. they are feeding my wall jones!
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dmitry
Trad climber
Chita, Russia
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Jul 29, 2005 - 03:28pm PT
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Speaking of unpretentious and helpful: Kevin J is one of those guys.
Very good at both wall and free climbing, yet not full of himself.
Great work, Gentlemen!
Cheers,
d
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Ouch!
climber
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Jul 29, 2005 - 03:45pm PT
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Seems to me a climbing community would be very much interested in the TRs and really nice pictures Ammon puts up. Especially the interesting angles that show his gear setups. What else is the purpose of a forum on climbing if not to talk about climbing related issues. I bet these TRs and pictures have helped a lot of people decide if they really want to tackle some of these scary places.
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Ammon
Big Wall climber
Lake Arrowhead
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 29, 2005 - 04:28pm PT
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"Yeah, Ammon, I did install those first four 3/8” buttonheads… And you know why… "
Yep, I was just mentioning that the huge head is a pain in the ass to get the wires on them. I understand why you did it, I think we had a conversation about them before they were installed.
I too think the Sloan slander is out of control. Erik is one of the nicest guys I've met. He's done a lot of helpful work on the high angled stone in the Valley. It's just that he has a different opinion on how things should be done up there.
BitchMcFist. You sir, are correct. I was there, I saw it.
Yes, but were you there when they got replaced back to rivets?
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Wrathchild
climber
right behind you
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Jul 29, 2005 - 04:39pm PT
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That is great news if the bolt before the 9 o'clock roof is a rivet again. Although it is likely a 3/8th and not the 1/4 that caught my fall.
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Ammon
Big Wall climber
Lake Arrowhead
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 29, 2005 - 04:49pm PT
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Yeah, if it did get changed it is most likely that it's a 3/8" rivet. BUT, it's more likely that the wire (if you don't use a keyhole hanger) to break than a 1/4" rivet to sheer.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Oakville, Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Jul 29, 2005 - 06:11pm PT
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I've got a nice scar on the top of my left elbow from [url="http://www.rockclimbing.com/ascent/index.php?AscentID=354"]my solo ascent of Zed-Em.[/url] Seems the block I was nailing decided to part company with the wall, along with me, and it dinged me pretty hard in the process. Nice thirty-footer, as I recall.
I also recall a big fatty 3/8" ASCA bolt in the middle of one of the A4 pitches. Shameful that such a bolt should replace the original rivet. Shameful. Shameful how greedily I clipped it, too.
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thebleeder
climber
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Jul 29, 2005 - 06:19pm PT
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ammon, i wanna hear what happened with magic mushroom.
OH SNAP.
just kiddin' bro. keep on getting at it.
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Fluoride
Trad climber
on a rock or mountain out west
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Jul 29, 2005 - 06:39pm PT
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Congrats guys. Great pics. Ivo looks a little more whupped than Kev and Ammon though...those 2 looks as fresh as daisies!!
poop tube - check your e-mail, I just sent you Micah's numbers.
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
one pass away from the big ditch
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Jul 29, 2005 - 07:53pm PT
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I dare say this thread is actually about climbing and climbing in the valley.
Maybe one day the political threads will die out and I'll read them all like in the old days of ST.com.
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Ammon
Big Wall climber
Lake Arrowhead
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 30, 2005 - 01:23am PT
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Hey Bleeder Joe,
What's UP homie? Email me and give me your number. I want to go to The Creek this winter and need a guide to show me around.... haa ha haa.
Um, The Shroom? Well, I don't think the boys had enough rest between routes. They both bonked on Grey and wouldn't leave the fetal position... even though I shouted obscenities at them all night long, haa haa. I felt bad in the morning, kinda like a drill sergeant.
Ivo got off route, his headlamp started going out. He said it was like having to go talk to his dad after he did something wrong when he came back down to Grey to tell me they were worked and needed sleep.
Hell of an adventure, though. Somebody should have had that night on video. WAKE UP YOU WUSSIES!!! YOU GUYS ARE LIGHT!!! WE DIDN'T JUST CLIMB ALL DAY TO GO TO SLEEP!!! Haa haaa, too funny.
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Michael Moron
Social climber
Davison, MI
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Jul 30, 2005 - 01:40am PT
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"i was about to ask what the white arrow in the first photo was pointing to... then i realized it was my cursor!"
That was funny. How many beers were behind that little gem of a statement?
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imnotclever
climber
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Bump.
(The link from the SuperTopo Climbing News, that is supposed to go to this, goes to the wrong article. So I figured I'd give it a bump.)
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Daniel Duane
climber
CA
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Hey, reading this thread made me smack myself on the head. I neglected to mention Kevin when I wrote the LA Times article that mentioned Ivo and Ammon on ZM. So, this is official: Sorry Kevin. I spaced.
Dan
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sparkytheflash
Big Wall climber
seattle,wa
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hey ammon sweet run on zm. you're definately in another world than where i'm at. i'm still getting going. hey you don't know me but we have a mutual friend in jake hector. he and i did some routes at index. i think he's down there right now. how is he doing? he said he would get a ton of stuff done while he was down this summer. i hope he's sending. if you see him tell him hi for me. thanks.
dave back
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leezus
Trad climber
Salt Lake City
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Yeah Ammon, Ivo and Kevin!
excellent work!
cool how the dynamics can just click.
even cooler how you responded to both
BCD and BCE's comments. You're a good man, Ammon.
Look forward to working w/ you in the future.
Lee
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no_one
Big Wall climber
Hurricane, Utah
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Nice work boys! Hey does that belay, the one with the picture of Kevin realy only consist of a Hook and a stopper or something? Insane! Hey Ammon, hope to see you around zion soon, any plans? See Ya!
Steve
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rockrunner
climber
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This sounds all very dangerous! I think it would be much safer to do walls in normal wall style rather than push style. I would hate to see anyone get hurt. Climbing in the night sounds very scary!
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WBraun
climber
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Actually climbing at night is much less scary. You can't see much except what you are doing right in front of you. Very nice!
What's so scary? Are we afraid of the dark?
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Lambone
Ice climber
Ashland, Or
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Apr 18, 2007 - 03:44am PT
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bump for the sickness!
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Cosmin
Big Wall climber
Europe/China
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Apr 18, 2007 - 04:25am PT
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useful tr - good climb. deserves another bump. wish someone could fix the photos - they don't show up on my screen at least.
c
PS - would be nice to have more trs like this!
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Neil
Gym climber
Here and there
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Apr 18, 2007 - 07:46am PT
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Truly awesome. Thanks for the bump.
Nate
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Euroford
Trad climber
chicago
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Apr 18, 2007 - 08:28am PT
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hell yeah, glad this got bumped as for some reason i missed the original thread last year.
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Terry
climber
Spokane
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Apr 18, 2007 - 10:47am PT
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Ammon - proud send. Props to ya all.
BCD - I can't post what I'd like to say - so just shut up. As one poster said, Ammon has no reason to spray.
Only 'met' Ammon once but quickly found what kinda guy he was - We were climbing the Nose and arrived at the bivy on the tower just as sun was setting. Our leader was shivering in the wind in short sleeves and Ammon, who is bivied up above to the right sends a fleece jacket on down on a tag line to him to use until we get the pig hauled up with the warm gear. We placed a present in the pocket without telling him and sent it back up. I still remember the WOOOP we heard later that night when he discovered it - The thoughtgulness he showed inspired me to try and live it out more myself, especially when I learned from my partner who he was and what he's accomplished. Impressive that he'd bother with us 'noobs'
Once again, way to go Ammon and keep the 'spray' comin'!
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jeff leads
Sport climber
ca
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Apr 18, 2007 - 10:47am PT
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Awesome send boyz!!
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MisterE
Social climber
RimDweller, AZ
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Apr 18, 2007 - 10:53am PT
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Proud Send! Cool how you hooked up with a great team - very serendipitous.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Apr 18, 2007 - 01:14pm PT
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Awesome. I like too how things pulled together for ya, Ammon. Almost like it was meant to be. Congrats to all three of you!
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Ammon
Big Wall climber
El Cap
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 18, 2007 - 06:17pm PT
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Haa haa, thanks guys! That was a fun one. Oh, Tim... that wasn't last year but two years ago, in '05.
And thanks Terry. I didn't see you guys as noobs at all, though. I just saw a fellow climber without something warm on and it got cold fast. It's happened to me many times and I was happy to have helped.
Thanks for the gift, that was priceless. I still tell that story around the campfire sometimes. Make sure you say hello if you see me around. Cheers!
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Minerals
Social climber
The Deli
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No Obama on El Cap!!! Guess he can't climb like Ammon...
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Captain...or Skully
Social climber
Idaho
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Oh, Minerals, relax....not an issue....though some GW clones up there. Just look at the Nose fiascos. I'd like to check ZM out, no push, howsumever, not my style. Vertical camping is more like it, for me...
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the kid
Trad climber
fayetteville, wv
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nice send guys..
very sic...
i soloed it in 95 after my divorce and spent 8 days very puckered up! was super happy to make it to the top.
can't really imagine doing it in a day...
the pitch above the lighting bolt roofs took me 8 hours! bet you guys did that pitch in 1...
cool beans man..
ks
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BrazilianMOnkey
Big Wall climber
Rido de Janeiro
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Yeaaahh Proud ascent dude!!!
the monkeys always send!!!
huahauhauaha
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mucci
Trad climber
The pitch of Bagalaar above you
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Jul 24, 2010 - 01:38am PT
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Bump
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Roxy
Trad climber
CA Central Coast
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Jul 24, 2010 - 02:06am PT
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Required a new beer this find...AWESOME!!!!!
Man this should be in the Trip Reports section.
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| Messages 1 - 71 of total 71 in this topic |
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