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Fluoride
Trad climber
on a rock or mountain out west
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 17, 2005 - 03:35pm PT
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That's a moving response Courtney. I think there's a thread on rockclimbing.com titled similar to this that her childhood friends and family are monitoring. You might want to go over there and post this since her family would probably love to hear this story. They're just as strong as Erica and are full of hope and the Hulk hands story would probably give them a much needed smile right now.
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Ouch!
climber
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Jul 17, 2005 - 10:12pm PT
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Geraldo Rivera is about to discuss Erica right now. On Fox News
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Ouch!
climber
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Jul 17, 2005 - 10:31pm PT
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The interview was quite interesting. Her mother was in the studio in new York.
Just checked the schedule and it looks like it might repeat on the show from 10:00 to 11:00 pm Pacific Time.
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up2top
Big Wall climber
Phoenix, AZ
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Jul 18, 2005 - 01:45am PT
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I just saw the segment on Geraldo -- they did more than just a mention, it was a full on segement with some good reporting and Erica's Mom and cousin were in the studio. It's nice to see it get this kind of publicity, because it may help influence the length and bredth of the investigation by the Pakistani government.
Some disturbing news from the segement for those of you who didn't see it:
 It seems that Pakistan has called off the formal search. No explanation given publically, but speculation abound.
Pierre was taken into custody and interrogated last night. They asked him to sign a form indicating (admitting?) she was dead so they could close the case. It appears they are trying to implicate him in her disappearance, or they are trying to take the easy, convenient way out just to put this matter behind them. He was released this morning.
I don't know Pierre very well, but he seemed like a top-notch guy to me. The trust level that he and Erica have established over the past few years during some very extreme adventures is one that would not easily be betrayed, and I would find it hard to believe he could have anything to do with her disappearance.
The above has been offered as one reason the search was called off. Her Mom was also told by US officials that it was called off temporarily today because of weather and will resume with the addition of SAR dogs.
Erica's cousin talked with Pierre today and Pierre plans to be involved in every way possible to assist the search.
A lot of conclusions can be drawn or implied from the above info, but I don't think it would be appropriate to speculate too much. I do know that Erica's Mom and cousin wanted to make clear that it is important that the audience, and we the climbing community do everything we can to pressure the State Department to keep looking for Erica and to ask them to put pressure on the Pakastani Government to provide all possible resources until Erica is found. I personally have a friend in the State Department who I will be writing after posting this message. She's not a big player, but every contact could help. If you know someone who could help assist in this search, please pull those strings and call in those favors now.
Ed
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guest
climber
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Jul 18, 2005 - 02:18pm PT
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I've been following this and the rc.com thread, and it's obviously horrible news. I'm somewhat familiar with the area, having been there last year -- we were base camped in the Trango b.c., a couple hours' walk down-glacier from Shipton Camp. We did, however, make several trips to the Shipton Camp just to say hi to folks, and my climbing partner had made two previous trips to the area, both times climbing from the Shipton Camp. He's super familiar with the place, having climbed Shipton Spire and routes up and down valley from Shipton. I just spoke with him last night and told him about what I'd read on Erica's disappearance. He mentioned something that's terrible but quite logical, having been there.
First, in response to this (I didn't see the Geraldo thing, btw): "I know from the interview that they said their was an army base in the vicinity of Shipton Spire where Erica was climbing, what did they mean by "vicinity"? "
**Unless things have changed since last year, the nearest army camp is a full day's walk, along rubble-strewn glacier, from Shipton. It's not what we'd consider an army base here -- a few tins huts, old tires, shack, and some dudes hanging out, bored silly.
And this: "Also, has there been any reports of guerilla activity in the area?"
**Not that I'm aware of. On the contrary, this area of Pakistan tends to be extremely safe. I've traveled a good bit around the world, and on my trip there last year I was met with more kindness and warmth than anyplace else. Of course, we weren't looking for guerrillas and such, but word from the locals, folks we befriended who were very open about everything (talks on politics, religion, etc), and word from all the trekkers and climbers were that this is an extremely safe area. There's other areas of Pakistan where guerrilla activity is high and travel would be sketchy at best, but this isn't one of them. Though anything is possible, it's hard to imagine guerrilla-related troubles in that area, especially in the Shipton Camp (it's not an area readily accessible by any way other than the normal trek from the heavily-traveled Baltoro and up the Trango Valley).
This, which related to what could be a possible explanation for Erica's disappearance: "Is the glacier she was hiking on prone to crevasses?"
**Yes, but it's a dry glacier (no snow -- too low in elevation, even after Pakistan's huge snow year with hundreds of avalanche deaths over the winter/spring). Being a dry glacier, it's bare ice, often covered in rubble (scree/talus/dirt). So, the crevasses are very visible, unlike, say, something in the Alaska Range (or higher elevations in Pakistan) where snow bridges can hide the crevasses and make travel treacherous. Wandering around on a dry glacier can be fairly safe, and I did it a fair bit last year -- fun, so many unique and cool formations in the ice, etc. Truly beautiful. BUT, the problem is, there's spots where it's super slick, with fine dust covering rock-hard ice, and it's very easy to slip and fall. The glacier ice there rolls up and down constantly, it's not smooth like snow-covered glaciers often are. Up by Shipton Camp there's lots of small rivers and streams running through the glacier. I'd guess that some of them are quite powerful, especially with the record snow year they had followed by the recent high temps (record highs in Islamabad with many deaths, though I don't know if that necessarily means that the areas farther north were so warm) -- probably high meltwater run-off. Anyway, these glacial streams/rivers are carved down into the glacier, the water is freezing cold, and if you got close to the edge and slipped, you wouldn't have a chance -- you'd slide right down into them. No matter how tough or good someone (like Erica) is, there'd simply be no way to avoid being swept away (and quickly incapacitated by hypothermia). Most all of them quickly disappear into caverns and such beneath the ice, into who-knows-where below the glaicer.
It's a horrible scenario to ponder, but if helicopter searches uncovered no trace, it's very possible.
If you've been near these things, it's so easy to imagine how it could happen. There's also small lakes in the glacier, with outrageously steep banks of dirt and rock. Once you start to slip on these steep banks, they completely disintegrate beneath you.
There's countless little lakes and icewater streams on the glacier by Shipton.
I remember hearing a report, maybe 10 years ago, about someone on a NOLS or OB (?) trip perishing into a stream and beneath a glacier like this. I think it was in the Cascades.
Sorry for the lengthy post and morbid scenario, but it's one that I hadn't seen mentioned, and it seems quite possible. It's the first thing my friend mentioned when I told him about this. So sorry about this whole thing.
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Courtney
Trad climber
California
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Jul 18, 2005 - 03:05pm PT
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Thanks guest for the excellent insights from you and your friend on the Shipton base camp area and the political environment. That was extremely helpful.
Three quick things:
1) It seemed odd to me that Pierre would be questioned for so long by authorities, so I called a Federal Investigator I work with in Yosemite National Park who is often tasked with similar types of lost person investigations. His first words were that he is very sorry Erica is missing. He confirmed that investigators do question the partners extensively. I'm sure I can ask him more questions about this process if anyone wants me to. He was reassured to hear that the State Department is involved.
2) I think someone mentioned going to see a psychic. Interestingly, I believe I read that "seers" are helpful in a number of cases. I have not been involved in a case where seers have been used, so I have no first hand experience. However, I believe there is some positive data in "The Handbook for Managing Land Search Operations" by Robert "Skip" Stoffel, published by Emergency Response International www.emergencyresponseintl.com
3) I'm glad to hear dogs are being deployed. While no search resource is perfect, dogs can often smell that which we cannot see. If I were lost, I'd definitely want K9 resources deployed.
For those of you who don't know me, I've been involved in search and rescue for three years, mostly in Yosemite. I'm currently training a search dog to do wilderness search.
Erica met Bella, my dog, last summer in the dirt lot when we were out for a morning run. Bella jumped up on Erica with great enthusiasm and scratched Erica's tummy--but Erica didn't mind and just pet her and gave me a hug, smile and lots of great energy.
Please let me know if there is anything more I can do to help.
Courtney
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up2top
Big Wall climber
Phoenix, AZ
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Jul 19, 2005 - 01:22am PT
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I got a quick response from my friend. Here's what she had to say:
"Ed -- I am so sorry to hear about your friend. I sent an e-mail to a friend of mine who is still in Islamabad...and (she indicates) that the American Citizen Services staff at the Embassy have been working on the case ever since they found out that she went missing.
It's the job of the American Citizen Services section at the Embassy to take care of Amcits in trouble.
That's one of my jobs in Sierra Leone, but in Pakistan they have an officer doing it full time and her boss is my old boss. My old boss is a force of nature and will let nothing get in the way of her helping an American citizen in trouble -- I saw it several times when I was there. The Embassy has very good relations with the police and I am sure they're doing all they can to find her.
Before I left Pakistan I went up to the Northern Areas (Gilgit, Hunza) and got stuck for a week and a half because of weather -- the air is so thin up there the planes cannot fly to/from Islamabad if there is even a hint of a storm over Nanga Parbat. I imagine it is the same in the area where they are searching for Erica. And forget trying to predict the weather up there -- I tried it myself while I was stuck waiting for good plane weather -- 3 websites, 3 different forecasts. It really is isolated up there.
Take care and keep the faith,
Rachael"
Still no word, but it sounds like the right people with a lot of resolve are in the region to make sure this is a top priority.
Ed
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Fluoride
Trad climber
on a rock or mountain out west
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Topic Author's Reply - Jul 19, 2005 - 01:54am PT
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Thanks for the info Ed.
It's been 9 days now since she went missing. Damn. As hard as this is on all of us - her friends - I can't imagine what her family must be going through. Any idea if her folks are going over there to aid in the search efforts?
Still holding out hope for Erica to return to us.
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Sedonagal
climber
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Jul 19, 2005 - 03:08am PT
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I never met Erica but I know her very well. And I mean "very well." Through the eyes of her parents, the joy in their expression each time they have mentioned her, the spark in their eyes when they describe any one of her many adventures... Although there are two daughters for whom the Kutchers carry tremendous pride and love, their smiles and laughter when sharing any one of Erica's conversations will remain with me always. Erica is very special and there is no doubt that she has spun through life with a passion I can only hope to experience myself, but I am so very inspired by these two wonderful people. Erica's father carries a quiet demeanor with yet a wonderful sense of humor and compassion that truly complements his lovely wife's inner beauty and sense of pleasure in all that she touches. They are a wonderful family -- the Kutchers, and I take great pleasure in knowing them and being a part of their family. Even while the anxiety of the unknown looms overhead, Erica's parents carry a sense of dignity and respect for a daughter they miss dearly. I only hope that I can be the parent either one has been to Erica and Gabrielle. I hope and pray like everyone else here for a simple miracle. In the meantime, I thought you all might like to know something about two people so very important in this young woman's life... Peace.
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Gab
climber
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Jul 19, 2005 - 10:30am PT
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I'd like to start by saying that all of your kind thoughts and stories have helped us keep good thoughts of Erica in our heads during trying and uncertain times.
I now have to put closeure to all of the speculation. My sister was found dead yesterday, swallowed by an avalanche. My parents recieved conformation at 3am from the American Embassy.
We appreciate all of your support and the wishes that I know everyone will want to share with the family during this time of greif, but we ask to please keep the phone calls to a minimum, as my entire family is in agony over this most recent and final development in this story.
She passed on in one of the most beautiful places in the world doing what she loved to do most.
Erica was a kind and wonderful person who has touched everyone she has met and it is our duty as those who have known her to keep that spirit alive in our thought and our actions.
There are 2 things that I have learned from my baby sister over the years that I would like to share as they are universal:
1. Be true to your heart and yourself. Never care what anyone thinks as long as you are doing what you know is right.
2. Take time every day to smile at someone you don't know. It is the little acts of random kindness that, in the end, make a bigger difference.
Thank you for your support and all the love you have all shown. Her light will still burn bright if we keep lighting different fires from it.
If you'd like to send condolence wishes to the family feel free to e-mail me and I will pass them along to the rest of the family.
God Bless you all and God keep Erica and love her as we do,
Gabrielle Kutcher
wydgit76@yahoo.com
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10b4me
Trad climber
On that V2 problem at the Happies
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Jul 19, 2005 - 11:39am PT
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Gabrielle,
so sorry to hear this. My condolences to you and your parents.
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Largo
Sport climber
Venice, Ca
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Jul 19, 2005 - 01:09pm PT
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Very sad news, and heartfelt condolences to all.
Though I certainly don't know the specifics I think it's amazing that she was found at all.
JL
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D.JTRIP
climber
r.i
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Jul 19, 2005 - 01:09pm PT
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thank you to all family & friends for your support through all of this but as u know erica was found but she passed on. erica was a kind & wonderful person who has touched everyone she has met.she was a great she used the world as her playground from rock climin to bike riding she did it all.. all over the world. she was also family
erica to me was talented,inspirational,experienced rockclimer,captivated,amazing,confident,sincere & a rarity she was a world explorer one of a kind the best aunt my baby boys could ask for she had dreams of takeing my boys up with her to show them every thing she knew i wil miss you gabbi will miss u mom dad we all will miss you so much you will live forever in our hearts......
till we meet again erica kutcher
love always venasio guevara
p.s to all of you who knew her when she was not at home with her mom & dad you guys are great my sister in law loved you all so much cause just like you she had stotys about all u guys if u have more storys please we here would love to hear them
thank you
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Amjad Ali Khan
Mountain climber
Skardu,Pakistan
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Jul 19, 2005 - 01:57pm PT
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May the almighty grant eternal peace to the departed soul and give strength to the bereaved family to overcome the irreparable loss through love and friendship of many well- wishers around you.
We pray for her soul to rest in peace.
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Holdplease2
Trad climber
All over
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Jul 19, 2005 - 02:25pm PT
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I am so sorry to hear this news.
I know I didn't know her as well as many of you, but there was never an occasion when I spent time with Erica that I didn't feel happier and better about life...and challenged to live it more fully.
She was a brave girl in so many ways, from launching up El Cap in pushes to being a good and strong woman in her own way. She led her climbs and her life in ways that I could never follow, but will probably wish I would have.
I know I'll smile every time I remember her...running around in her dirty red shorts with tree-sap stains on her face, looking as lovely as anyone ever could.
So sorry for all of you, her family and close friends, what a tremendous loss.
Praying for peace for her soul.
-Kate.
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mello
climber
Miami, Fl
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Jul 19, 2005 - 02:27pm PT
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Hello to you all, I am Erica's Aunt. I just wanted to say THANK YOU to all of you who posted your stories and comments about Erica.
We, her family, are truly devastated by the news that we received today. We are grateful and thankful that she was found.We are waiting to hear when her remains will be returned to us so that we may plan her funeral.
It will be a celebration of her life! She lived to climb. This was a part of Erica that we loved and marveled at. It's nice to know that her spirit will live on in all our memories,
Thanks for all your words and prayers.
God Bless You,
Marcia
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Holdplease2
Trad climber
All over
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Jul 19, 2005 - 02:29pm PT
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I am so sorry to hear this news.
I know I didn't know her as well as many of you, but there was never an occasion when I spent time with Erica that I didn't feel happier and better about life...and challenged to live it more fully.
She was a brave girl in so many ways, from launching up El Cap in pushes to being a good and strong woman in her own way. She led her climbs and her life in ways that I could never follow, but will probably wish I would have.
I know I'll smile every time I remember her...running around in her dirty red shorts with tree-sap stains on her face, looking as lovely as anyone ever could.
So sorry for all of you, her family and close friends, what a tremendous loss.
Praying for peace for her soul.
-Kate.
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Big Breasted Woman
Trad climber
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Jul 19, 2005 - 02:44pm PT
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I'm so very sorry to hear of this sad outcome. I can't even begin to imagine the feelings that all her many friends and family are experiencing. I never had the pleasure to know Erica but in a very small way I kind of do. And this is only because of all the wonderful stories that have been posted here about her since she disappeared. Keep this special person close to your hearts. She was one of a kind.
Nanci
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D.JTRIP
climber
r.i
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Jul 19, 2005 - 03:08pm PT
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Just to clarify, It was Erica's mother Blossom who was on Geraldo along with Erica's cousin, Michael Glickman. And, yes they did show amazing strength.
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