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RDB
Trad climber
Iss WA
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Topic Author's Original Post - Mar 26, 2009 - 09:51pm PT
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If this is one form what is your's?
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pip the dog
Mountain climber
planet dogboy
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Mar 26, 2009 - 10:50pm PT
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my dream pack weighs a total of 4.6lbs, fully loaded. it contains all of the sh!t i didn't think i actually needed, but suddenly do:
4lbs of my Aunt Meme chocolate chip cookies; a escape game plan; 700ft of rappel floss; and my sweetheart Rhea all happy and wrapped in a 4lb down bag ensconsed in g-tex.
i don't ask for much. just the basics.
^,,^
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Mar 27, 2009 - 02:13am PT
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That Karrimor Whillans is my dream climbing pack.
Right down to the burnt-orange canvas body, lime green zippered inside pocket under the flap and the felt lined leather shoulder straps.
I like how it carried and that it was a little bit stingy with volume, but bigger than a day pack.
I saw one on eBay last year, from Great Britain of course, but no top flap. So no go.
(Not like I was really in the buy anyway)
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SteveW
Trad climber
The state of confusion
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Mar 27, 2009 - 10:24am PT
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I really like my BD Shadow pack.
I had a Dana Design Bomb that was great! till I wore it
out.
And I agree with Tar about the Whillans pack. I wore one
of those out too!
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Prod
Trad climber
A place w/o Avitars apparently
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Mar 27, 2009 - 12:35pm PT
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The heavy one my partner is carrying.
Prod.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Mar 27, 2009 - 12:37pm PT
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The one I'm carrying when I'm having the most fun climbing.
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Brunosafari
Boulder climber
Redmond, OR
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Mar 27, 2009 - 01:06pm PT
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Another emphatic vote for the Whillans. But I say red was best.
I have a Metolius Crag Station now--easier on my camera, and tunafish sands stay in fair shape.
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GhoulweJ
Trad climber
Sacramento, CA
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Mar 27, 2009 - 01:11pm PT
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The Lowe Cloudwalker II
I miss that pack.
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RDB
Trad climber
Iss WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 27, 2009 - 01:39pm PT
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I have a short list of favorites in order of ownership
Millet 370
Jensen
Jumbo Jensen
Lowe
Wilderness Experience
Wild Things Andinista (from '80 to '95)
Arc'teryx
Custom Cold Cold World
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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Mar 27, 2009 - 01:46pm PT
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I still have my old canvas Millet. It was a favorite.
Montbell has a copy available in tech fabrics. I have one that I use for my briefcase and air travel. But it is burly-- I can use it as a real pack if I need to.:
Then a Wild Things Andinista that I finally trashed.
Jillions in-between that I don't care so much about.
Now I have a new Cilogear for real gear days.
For fast-n-lite, I have another Montbell:
Less than a pound, has a thin ensolite back, and held up for almost 8 years of heavy use in the Sierra and Alps before I finally managed to rip the fabric. It was only fifty bucks-- I'll probably just replace it.
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nature
climber
Tucson, AZ
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Mar 27, 2009 - 02:21pm PT
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my ultimate pack has an endless supply of beer and weights next to nothing.
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RDB
Trad climber
Iss WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 27, 2009 - 02:59pm PT
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"I do not have a rock pack now because I have not found ANY worth buying. "
Same feelings here. One newer manufacturer that others recommended tried telling me his "crag" pack would fit anyone. Of course it didn't and worse yet the sewing, details and delivery were dismal.
"Who makes a simple pack like this? "
CCW and they come in black as well as the special order red.
Here is a old Chouinard FISH (modified) from the '70s that was worn out years ago compared to my new custom Ozone. The Ozone is the first pack to really replace the FISH to my satisfaction.
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Ottawa Doug
Social climber
Ottawa, Canada
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Mar 27, 2009 - 03:36pm PT
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Hey Dane Burns,
Do you know where that cover pic on 'Climbing Magazine' is from. I it perhaps on the Swiss Route on Les Courtes?
Ciao,
Doug
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pissed
Trad climber
Lake Placid NY and Scranton PA
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Mar 27, 2009 - 03:44pm PT
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I'm still waiting for a pack with:
Avalung and
External Crampon Holder and
Ice Axe Loops and
A Frame Ski Carry.
You can get any combination of any 3 but not all 4.
Meanwhile I like my Gregory Alpinisto 55.
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ron gomez
Trad climber
fallbrook,ca
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Mar 27, 2009 - 03:50pm PT
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Anyone who would be willing to carry mine!
Peace
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G_Gnome
Trad climber
In the mountains... somewhere...
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Mar 27, 2009 - 05:18pm PT
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Maybe I'm a lightweight, but I need a pack with padding and a good harness. I carry a rack, a rope, half a gallon or more of water, clothes, shoes, harness, food, and essentials. I don't know how people carry all that in a pack with shoulder straps designed in 1955 and no waist harness.
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CAMNOTCLIMB
Trad climber
novato ca
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Mar 27, 2009 - 06:11pm PT
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Any pack that holds a rope, rack and a six-pack.
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Anastasia
climber
Not here
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Mar 27, 2009 - 06:26pm PT
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Rock! Never put a rock in my pack when a bottle of brew could be dropped in for the same results.
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RDB
Trad climber
Iss WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 27, 2009 - 06:50pm PT
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Doug, I think that is the Grands Charmoz.
"Climbing Magazine issue no. 34
John Bouchard a short distance from the ice head wall, Grand Charmoz North Face."
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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Mar 27, 2009 - 06:59pm PT
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G Gnome: "I carry a rack, a rope, half a gallon or more of water, clothes, shoes, harness, food, and essentials. I don't know how people carry all that in a pack with shoulder straps designed in 1955 and no waist harness."
You always carry the rack AND the rope?
We should climb together sometime.
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G_Gnome
Trad climber
In the mountains... somewhere...
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Mar 27, 2009 - 08:39pm PT
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Mostly, sad though it is. My wife busted her hip on a long fall back in the day and if I'm lucky she'll carry her own shoes and harness. If we are spurt climbing it isn't so bad, but going up into the crags to do trad routes can be back breaking, especially when you find out I only weigh 125 pounds.
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aguacaliente
climber
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Mar 27, 2009 - 09:55pm PT
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Why slip rocks into your buddy's pack when you could be slipping the beer into your buddy's pack?
"You carried beer all the way up here?"
"No, you did" - Ben Bowman
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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Mar 27, 2009 - 10:01pm PT
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G Gnome-- Well, we're in similar boats. The GF weighs less than a hundred pounds, so you can do the rest of the math.
I broke down and bought a larger Cilogear specifically for days where I have to hump rack and rope into the backcountry, so I could carry it all on my hips.
Dane's Ozone looks really cool, though. Much cleaner than the basic CCW design.
Hey Dane, how much does it weigh?
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ß Î Ø T Ç H
Boulder climber
the greasewood ghetto
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Mar 27, 2009 - 10:02pm PT
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Had a Metolius rope pack - dope shape , very low key .
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
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Mar 27, 2009 - 10:07pm PT
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Move over, Hans Florine!
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RDB
Trad climber
Iss WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 27, 2009 - 11:12pm PT
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The Ozone
1.5" waist belt
doubled bottom panel
Capacity.2300 cu. in.
Weight....2 lbs 4 oz
Materials.1680denier ballistic nylon
Price.$95.
I suspect Randy could make up one that went under 1.5# in the right material. I was looking for durabiliy over weight.
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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Mar 27, 2009 - 11:17pm PT
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"Weight....2 lbs 4 oz"
I was guessing it was light. That's really cool. One of the really amazing ways that things have improved in the last thirty years: materials.
I can't see the stitching, but that pack looks a lot like the patterns that had become common in Europe by the early 60s.
One of the weird things about recent pack design is that so many customers want to maximize features that the basic pack typically weighs out at something ridiculous.
Not much point in agonizing over biner selection if the pack itself starts out at 4 or 5.
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RDB
Trad climber
Iss WA
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 28, 2009 - 11:27am PT
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Yep, pretty basic pack. Ballistic cloth makes it heavier than required by most. But the material has a signifigantly extended life span measured in years, not climbs. Only real change in design from the earlier Euro climbing packs is sewing quality and the subtle design changes on the shoulder straps (curved), strenum strap, waist strap, better padding and the added nuances in the lid. Nice having a pad that is removable as well.
Nothing really new about putting a sack on your back.
Same pack made from Dyneema would be interesting. It might well be the next project.
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marty(r)
climber
beneath the valley of ultravegans
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Mar 28, 2009 - 02:51pm PT
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Okay, there, I've said it...I have a bit of a luggage fetish. Packs, bags, carry-ons, you name it. Even after a year and a half of yard sales to cull the excess here's a taste of what dwells in my closet:
[Clockwise from bottom right: prototype Jackalope Threadworks shoulder bag, WildThings Rocsac (fantastic laminated 820D fabric), Fish Jim bag with Heifer shampelt, WildThings Freney pack (discontinued), BBZ AliBaba (riverbag style chalk safe from Fontainebleau), Patagonia space potato, custom Fish Grade V hauler, Osprey Solo pack, Costa Rican grocery bag (storing an 8 mil trail line at the moment), first generation BD Bullet pack]. Phew.
The real gem of the bunch is the Freney: clean, trim, nearly bomb-proof. The diamond-cross-hatch VX laminate is a great step forward in the evolution of ripstop.
The external crampon bag is a nice touch though the material is a little lighter there and more susceptible to wear in chimneys and corners. In a lot of ways it's very similar to the Whillans/CCW packs upthread except for the shape of the bottom.
All the WildThings packs I've seen/used have a continuous body design rather than a oval or square shaped bottom sewn to the main panels. From a wear and tear perspecive this seems to make a lot of sense. There's a smaller surface area being sewn together and thus less chance of a seam rim (fewer stitches means fewer blowouts.) Their design also creates fewer right angles overall which allows the material to flex more freely.
This really seems (or is it seams?) that durability--over many years and many climbs--hinges on the sewn material's ability to move with rather than against abrasion. I think this is why the canvas bags of old lasted so much longer than many of their modern counterparts. The body of that white 32 oz VCN haulbag will "last longer than your mind" but is too inflexible and heavy for alpine applications. The new ultralight Sil-coat fabrics that BD is using these days might be great on snow and ice but will shred like cheddar on rock.
Most of the time I'll either detach the lid or tuck it inside the body of the pack to minimize the profile of the pack. The three-point attachment of the lid, though, does make it possible to thread an axe scabbard-style for easy retrieval without having to take off the pack--a plus if continuous motion is your prime objective.
I don't sew as much as I used to but my gut tells me there's still some room for innovation with all of this. Any other thread jocks willing to chime in? (Paging Mr. Olsen!)
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Mar 28, 2009 - 06:56pm PT
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For an alpine climbing pack, the Wild Things Andinista (which Bouchard helped design) is pretty sweet. Low weight and all the necessary features make it perfect unless you are too voluminous in your needs! LOL
I have a Dana Designs Astralplane Overkill for the hellish stuff!
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2 l l
Sport climber
Rancho Verga, CA
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MisterE
Social climber
Bouncy Tiggerville
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Well, I finally got my Archwood Flextrek 37 Trillion, ZXYVR/M-Series, Magnum Package and I have been humiliating my surroundings ever since.
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Gnome Ofthe Diabase
climber
Out Of Bed
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Bumping :
There are over a hundred options out there, I was sure, that when shove came to push I would buy shoes.
Climbing shoes' these days?
No board lasted models and plain crap quality but super light down turned twisted, None of that ! that is not any help.
I need a pair of Scarpa Le Menstels(sp)
Stiff as hell ~ all day comfort ~ resoluble, multiple times, I have a pair that I may ship out. . .
Back to packs,
I am a huge fan of my FISH Atom Smasher, a half sac;small haul bag that I was fool enough to lend out, Tragedy struck when my pal did not survive laying his bike down, he lingered, in a coma for a week then packed it in ~ rip lobes you were a king.
The A'Smasher, that burly half sac, was on the back of the bike. It is well marked as mine, the Pensy. State police still won't release it to me this has gone on since 2011.
Jump to last week and the chance to climb with a guy who has spent a lot of time in Taiwan.
He is a strapping six foot tall and strong as boys in their twenty's usually are.
He showed up with a water tote size pack.
Really?!
Shoot I am on tap to carry everything.
Well not very thing - this dude has no water or food it is a 90 degree day in Sweat Jersey!
Yes two ropes and racks, helmets; his is a scooter brain bucket, mine an old lightweigh Cassin plastic jobt from 1999.
He carries his own shoes & harness, what a guy. . .i am not getting paid to play, not getting paid and still being a mule. What a fule. .
The march is short too up hill to the top of the cliff then a scramble to the gully or slot that is easy ,4th clas. The day goes the heat saps our verve and we pack it in early. The pack part blows, I can't get the rope and a short length of hybrid static/dynamic rope the rack with two boat anchors, for the wide; the #5 & #5+ not quite a six camalot, but wider than the five,
I can not in the heat, at the end of the day, after sending in the heat pack up my kit!
The guy getting a free guided day says "come on, do you have your make up on yet"
Fuk it ~ I stuff the sixty deep to the bottom, throw in the gear, hand him back his Vespa head gear, strap the cord to the outside of the pack and start to warbble out on my overworked ankles,
The Son of Crag is great pack 20 years old and still going strong.
I replaced the back pad with a folded thermarest sleeping pad that I deflate, before loading.
In a moment of need it can be a splint or provide comfort for an un planned bivy, while I've used it to camp out before a climb (Lone Peak, Utah) it has not been used in any emergency.
Enter the end of summer sales and the other climbing sites for sale, listings.
I had my choice at just over $100.00: A new FIsH? A Black Diamond Creek 50? There is a deal to be made over one or both of these; For sale on MP the haul bag like Arc'Teryx Alpha FL 45 and Patagonia Cragsmith 35L Pack. But if you had the choice what of the Hundred or so packs would / should one buy.? ,
like I said the choices seem endless. . . Sorry, hRuss, I love my Smasher and may get it back but in the mean time I have over paid buy ten bucks to a private seller when I could have made incentive bucks by buying on line from Backcountry. It was worth it to hear a rumor of the Dana Hauser
Now in Boulder . . .Hey you! Yeah you Idjut, get in touch it been 20 years!
Celebrating the soon to arrive Black diamond Stone, 45, that replaces the surprise pack as far as longevity and sheer toughness in an unassuming pack package,
Said best in this thread :
Lovegasoline
Trad climber
Sh#t Hole, Brooklyn, NY
Mar 27, 2009 - 02:19pm PT
Black Diamond Son of Crag Rock Pack
Design:
Simple, durable, reliable, functional, not too heavy, stealth. I think it was about 2200-2500 (?) Cubic inches.
The pack is a basic cylinder design with a flat bottom: just one large compartment with a drawstring closure, a lid that closes with two fastex buckles and that includes a small zippered pocket (the only zipper on the pack) . Inside, turquoise lining and one long pocket to hold the thin foam back liner pad plus a second pocket for documents and such. Outside, dual daisy chains (with a haul loop at their terminus) and a third carry/haul loop on the back. Padded shoulder straps and a simple removable unpadded 2” nylon webbing belt.
That’s it. No excessive bells, whistles, no unneccesary straps to get caught on stuff.
I owned this pack for 15 years and used it all the time on and off the rock until some a$$hole stole it in Yosemite in 2007 (with my artwork and insulation inside: DIE MUTHA FUKKER DIE!). It had the Fastex shoulder strap buckles replaced once or twice when they wore out, after a dozen years some squirrel holes were patched and the zipper replaced from Joshua Tree Outfitters (which I highly recommend: $18 to patch several ballistic holes plus installing a new zipper, excellent price and workmanship plus it included a free loaner pack).
I beat the sh|t out of this pack and for at least ten years it was my daily carry on the rock and off, plus it was my rock and also occasionally my alpine pack for 15 years. Besides my other climbing, I'd take an annual, 2-4 month dirtbag climbing tripout West, without a vehicle. I'd live out of the pack and hitchhike with the pack. I’ve hauled it up slabs. This pack was invincible.
A few times I wanted to retire it, but I never found a commercial marketed pack that was its equal.
My IDEAL PACK would use the Son of Crag design as the base and would include a few improvements:
Rigid Back Sheet (removable):
A simple customizable backsheet is nice if the pack will be living on your back for a good part of your life.
I added a Dana Designs plastic back sheet with aluminum strut (this was a sample that stores use to measure people’s backs). This was backed with the foam pad to add some back support and to allow the pack to sit upright, even when empty. This latter is important so that in NYC the pack does not fall to it’s side into a luggi or other unmentionables on the subway platform. A pack that can't stand upright without falling over is unusable to me: it's hard to access things, I can't use it to 'work out of', can't reliably contain wine bottles without corks, and such a pack will try to balance upright but unexpectedly falls over into puddles, dogsh|t, and vomit. Packs with sloped bottoms I find a poor design: looks cool but doesn't fuction well (hear that stupid Black Diamond and Acrteryx designers?). My pack’s flat bottom works just fine when slithering down a trail on my butt or crab crawling over rocks on my butt in the dark.
Compression straps:
I would have had minimalist compression straps on this pack.
Better water proofing
General Gripes and Deficits in any Pack:
-Light colors or bright colors suck (dark colors are best for my lifestyle: stealth operations, caching or stashing, and bandit camping .
-Zippers (unreliable, they eventually jam or blow out).
-Excessive straps and buckles (I dislike carrying an open invitation clusterfu¢k on my back that snags everything). Pack should have a sleek silhouette.
-I generally dislike branding and logo crap, particularly when it goes overboard.
-If the pack can't stand upright, loaded and unloaded, it's poorly designed.
-No bulbous protrusions inside (if pack cannot contain a 9" x 12" drawing pad without destroying it, it goes back to the drawing board boys).
-Restricts range of motion of head and can't tilt your head back (with or without helmet on) when wearing pack because of stupid design of top compartment or height of pack. What worth is a climbing pack if you cannot look up at the rock you are approaching or climbing, without undergoing crazy contortions just to SEE?
I do not have a rock pack now because I have not found ANY worth buying.
Who makes a simple pack like this?
I am worried that things like bombproof stitching at the shoulder straps, zipper ? I never used the one on my Wild things Alpinist, the red one that you could reduce to a tube by zipping the sides to the middle, I used that pack for ten years and traded it to a toprope, leading guide he was not worthy,
Good thread from the past and some good stuff, from the past needs to resurface.
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