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Peter Haan
Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
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Topic Author's Original Post - Feb 22, 2009 - 02:44pm PT
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So this large sized cartoon image depicts a fretful character in Hollow Flake, but with the situation reversed for artistic requirements, I suppose. It was given to me recently by Bill Zaumen a climbing friend and construction client of mine. It was done by a Steve Gropp??. It is hard to read the signature. It is from the seventies. I photoshopped out all the tears and a large fold mark; it’s about 11 x 17 and falling apart. It is not on acid-free paper as you see and is not long for this world so I scanned it in two sections, merged it and cleaned it up.
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ec
climber
ca
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Feb 22, 2009 - 03:10pm PT
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Situation 'Normal' AFU
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jstan
climber
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Feb 22, 2009 - 03:38pm PT
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Absolutely great print! The author clearly knows what it feels like.
Do I see a t-shirt forming up here?
In the 60's there was a Bill Zaumen in the gunks. MIT I think. Or maybe Princeton. Could not find any clues on the wreck though.
EDIT:
OK. MIT. I can even bring up a mental image.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Feb 22, 2009 - 03:51pm PT
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AFAIK, Bill Zed is alive and well and living in Palo Alto, and still working for SRI. I saw him at a get together at Mazama Rick's (in Mazama...) a few years ago. I vaguely recall that he did his doctorate back east, and the following seems to agree: http://adsabs.harvard.edu/abs/1972PhDT.........1Z
A lively character, is Bill. He used to hang out with climbers from B.C. and Washington, in the Valley.
ps Nice cartoon - I've seen it before, but can't place it. Maybe google under the artist's name?
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mazamarick
Trad climber
WA
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Feb 22, 2009 - 04:10pm PT
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There's a story behind that drawing. Gropp was on the Salathe with Steve Swensen circa 1975. I believe he was following the Hollow flake pitch when he literally became "jammed." He was stuck in a very constricted position for an extended period of time, something like 1-2 hours, before SS extracted him using a crude pulley system. If memory serves me correctly, SG was pretty freaked by the experience and they ended up rapping.
It was a bizarre situation, but not totally uncommon. I had a friend jam his Robbin's shoe so badly he had remove his foot from the shoe then hammer the boot out.
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Peter Haan
Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 22, 2009 - 04:13pm PT
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HI everyone. yeah hilarious image for certain. Actually I absolutely loved that pitch since it was an offwidth and runout. Insanely perfect granite too.
Tami you are absolutely right, how could I have missed that it was a litho! And an a/p as well. Thanks for that. I put the thing under a powerful magnifying glass and you are certainly correct, it's a print. I have been assuming it was an ink drawing. And it explains the mystery of why the very familiar image was reversed.
Mighty Anders, No Billy Zee is not at SRI any more. He was at Sun Microsystems for a number of years and two and half years ago got laid off. He is getting a little LLC started there in Palo Alto though and is kind of having fun with it. He lived in his house while we remodeled the thing completely inside and out. That was fun only for a while however. He remembers you well by the way and I have been giving him updates on you. His doctorate was the one you post, it was at MIT.
Johno S. That's right. You two actually knew each other back then and it was a photo of his camming nut I posted here---the nut that was kind of a copy of one you had been making. That thread was about two years ago here. As far as a tee-shirt coming up, great idea!!
Stichie, that was the Bill of whom we are speaking here. yeah. He doesn't post any more; I think he got tired of the scrambling and hostilities as well as he needed more privacy.
By the way, Bill does still climb, actually usually twice a week in the Bay Area gyms with other fossils around our age and also likes to the Meadows still during the summers. He is in good health and can still hard 5.10 face and slabs usually.
Here is the image set up correctly, taken to grayscale as it originally was intended, and brightness/contrast etc developed for a tee-shirt or other printing:
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MH2
climber
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Feb 22, 2009 - 04:41pm PT
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Vivid.
I am particularly impressed by the rendering of the grain in the rock and the faintly flowing texture it sits in.
I climbed with Bill once, and John Dill, and Mike Sogard, all MIT students I think, on Lazy Bum that afternoon before the night rescue attempt on Watkins.
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Peter Haan
Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 22, 2009 - 04:43pm PT
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And MH2, the dead guy was Bobbo Locke, a friend of mine and a former employee. Really extensive thread on that also back awhile.
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jstan
climber
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Feb 22, 2009 - 05:00pm PT
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Peter:
Ah, yes. Now I remember.
We need a Facelift T shirt with that image on its back.
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Peter Haan
Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 22, 2009 - 05:08pm PT
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Yes, John. I think the image underscored the terrible issue of leaving equipment behind, even boots (big grin).
Tami, I do agree wholeheartedly with you. I was married to a professional artist/ tenured professor of art for 23 years. Ed The Cartooni has posted the artist's website just above---check out Steve Gropp; he is still in these four dimensions.
At this point we are just yakking, trying to keep our feet warm and our lungs working.
hugs, ph.
added: I just emailed Steve Gropp in case Stannard gets really serious on me (grin).
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jstan
climber
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Feb 22, 2009 - 05:25pm PT
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Hey mom! Peter's picking on me. (no problemo)
That's a great image. I am definitely not a T-shirt type. But that one I would like.
Tami, I had linked to Steve's website so we are all on the same, so-called, page here.
Peter is our lead here I think.
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mastadon
Trad climber
quaking has-been
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Feb 22, 2009 - 05:25pm PT
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Bill Z. and I had an absolute epic on Glacier Point Apron in the 70's. We were four or five pitches up on one of the latest horrors (wearing t-shirts and shorts) when thunder clouds boiled over the rim and started hammering us with hail and rain. Of course, what made the route we were on difficult was the fact that it was a water runnel. By the time we did the last rappel, Bill was completely hypothermic and I had to set up his rappel and push him off the belay. We couldn't manipulate the shoelaces on our climbing shoes and ended up hiking to the car in EB's. We were so cold, we weren't able to talk till we got to the parking lot.
Say hi to Bill for me and tell him I'll never go slab climbing with him again.
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Peter Haan
Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 22, 2009 - 05:29pm PT
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Wow Mastadon. I had heard about that epic from BZ some while ago. The Apron is not a good place to be in a downpour. Every so much more serious than steeper cliffs. I'll see him v. soon and tell him (grin).
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mazamarick
Trad climber
WA
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Feb 22, 2009 - 05:30pm PT
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We did the S. Face a week or two before the accident and I remember being spooked by the pitch up to Sheraton Watkins- poor protection and awkward moves.
According to Gropp's website he climbed the Dihedral Wall. I forgot, he did it with Glen Dalby the spring of '77. Steve was also with us on the first xc ski trip to the Methow Valley in 75, when they first started grooming trails at Sun Mountain. Looks like he does some incredible iron work!
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Feb 22, 2009 - 05:34pm PT
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The dapper, T-shirt less, Stannard of Arabia, at the FaceLift. (Pocket protector not visible.)
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jstan
climber
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Feb 22, 2009 - 05:41pm PT
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I must admit. I really could use a nice T-shirt, among other things.
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jstan
climber
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Feb 22, 2009 - 05:47pm PT
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Well, I actually am a specialist. I do only plastic milk containers.
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Jaybro
Social climber
wuz real!
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Feb 22, 2009 - 06:48pm PT
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Cool print, drawing whatever it is!
I remember Bill Z used to tell stories about some Wacky physicist and one in particular about how he talked his way out of a speeding my explaining how he could not be "accelerating at 75mph," or something. Drove back to the Bay area from the Valley, with him and others in the Stumpf mobile ('66(?) 'cuda) in the early 70's Whoever he had had ridden up with was having an epic somewhere and Bill wanted to get home. Bill and Mark, and a third who I can't recall, had just climbed some long route on the apron, so Mark was an obvious choice for a ride. On the way out we stopped at El Cap where somebody (Mike Covington? Washburn? (is that even possible?) & Partner, having done a, then fast, 2 day ascent of the West Face, were waiting for the same ride Bill z had been going to catch. Wonder how that worked out?
Isn't Bill Z a buddy of Dingus'? har.
Jstan, I had a state of the art Widefetish T-shirt in my hand today, being offered up by a sincere soul who is devoiding himself of earthly possessions. I didn't want to be a glutton, so I think Scuffy (or maybe, Bird L?) ended up with it. Had I known your plight I would have scarfed it!. I'll give you one of mine, the next time I'm in Santa Barbara, or at the facelift, or something.
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Peter Haan
Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 22, 2009 - 07:02pm PT
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Clearly we have to start a program to get Stannard clothed for God's sake. He can't continue like this.
One pointer, since he and I are in fact quite old, he being more so than of course, I hasten to add---I suggest really brightly colored fuzzy fabrics and plastics. Old people love them; they feel good and are cheery to say the least. That should open up the field here for those photoshop maniacs, descendants of the Great Ouch, to post in their concoctions.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Feb 22, 2009 - 07:16pm PT
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Perhaps a velour track suit would be appropriate, in a suitably lurid hue for safety. jstan spends a lot of time near roads, and can be rather focused.
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jstan
climber
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Feb 22, 2009 - 07:45pm PT
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I can't tell you how much I appreciate the well deserved attention. I would, however, prefer to be in Philly.
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Peter Haan
Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 22, 2009 - 07:45pm PT
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For those of you who knew or know Bill Z, the donor of the Gropp print and my old friend and client, here is a nice shot of him. Taken during the time we had his house completely in shambles. He liked the photo so much he sent it to his sister.
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mazamarick
Trad climber
WA
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Feb 22, 2009 - 09:56pm PT
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Hey Mastadon, you remember the road trip to Z-man's place via UC Davis? I was infected and you were playing chauffeur? Between trying to figure the angle of repose was for books and scientific journals stacked on Bill's dining room table and the continuous fever I was sporting at the time, I'm lucky to have survived. Oh, and your speed descent of the Priest grade in your VW.... by comparison, it seemed to make climbing seem like a relatively safe activity.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Feb 22, 2009 - 10:01pm PT
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An earlier photo of Zaumen of Arabia. Apparently physicists like Arabia.
On GPA, too.
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mastadon
Trad climber
quaking has-been
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Feb 22, 2009 - 10:07pm PT
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Mr Mazamadick,
Of course i remember the trip to Z's from The Trench in the late 70's. If I remember correctly, we left The Pit to escape bad weather. No, I don't remember flying down the Priest Grade. I was probably trying to save gas by going the steep way with the engine off. You were so sick, I'm surprised you noticed or remembered.
Climbing IS a relatively safe activity.
How's the snow up your way this winter?
How come you never answer your phone??
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nature
climber
Tucson, AZ
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Feb 23, 2009 - 12:21am PT
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BAT shirts should arrive from the printer tomorrow. So maybe it's time to take on another project.....
errr... or wait... it only took 4 months to get the BAT shirts done... maybe someone else should grab the torch on this one. I pulled a hamstring.
but I want one.
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mazamarick
Trad climber
WA
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Feb 23, 2009 - 12:40am PT
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Thanks Tami, now I know why we have border crossings! Did you know yesterday was Hockey Day in Canada? I didn't think so......
Masta, xc skiing has been good/great even with the marginal base, it ain't gonna last long though. Ice climbing has been great, but that'll go fast too if it warms up much.
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Peter Haan
Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 23, 2009 - 12:41am PT
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So Steve Gropp reports back that, with artist's credit, he would thrill to having his image used for Facelift t-shirts. Cool. We can get some Magenta, bright yellow and chartreuse once for John Stannard. Probably a small or medium, which do you think?
Steve went on in his email to describe how for a couple of hours, he was wedged in the squeeze chimney just below Hollow Flake Ledge. Not just his boots. Steve Swenson, his partner, had to figure how to pass him, since Gropp was on lead, and set up a system by which they could get Gropp out of there. Steve G. did go on to do two El Cap ascents that year however and eventually got over the hideousness of that situation on the Salathe. He is up on the Orcas Islands now.
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Tom
Big Wall climber
San Luis Obispo CA
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Feb 23, 2009 - 12:46am PT
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That drawing looks like the hapless climber believes he is halfway into the Jaws of Hell, which is how that situation can feel.
Great.
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Ihateplastic
Trad climber
Lake Oswego, Oregon
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Feb 23, 2009 - 02:08pm PT
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Peter, et.al.
I agree this is a fine piece of artwork for a climbing-related shirt. Now that the artist has given permission, are we only looking for someone to step in and take the project on?
If so, I nominate... me.
I have already designed/produced a Camp 4 sign shirt that has been seen within the pages of this fine site and I work in the fashion industry so getting this done with little time wasted/hassle is easier than Basket Case. Unless there are other arrangements being made, give me the go-ahead and I'll start the arrangements (who wants what/pricing/styles/colors/delivery/etc.)
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jstan
climber
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Feb 23, 2009 - 02:17pm PT
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Damn! I swore I would never fall in with a crowd like this. I know all of you always sat in the back of the class. And being Canadian I know Tami is deadly with a spitball at forty feet. You have so much room up there in Canada you have to be accurate at a distance.
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jstan
climber
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Feb 23, 2009 - 02:23pm PT
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Yeah. That was pretty awful.
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SteveW
Trad climber
The state of confusion
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Feb 23, 2009 - 02:25pm PT
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Cosmic
You need to open the collar on Jstan of Arabia. . .
he's much more relaxed than that. . .
Mastadon
I know that feeling--I was hiking in Rocky mountain NP
about 15 years ago and though I had rain gear, a similar
storm hit where I was, and by the time I got to my car
I was in similar conditions--I couldn't use my hands they
were so cold. I finally had to ask a guy to open the
snap/button on my jeans so I could take them off
to warm up--nothing like cotten in a downpour. . .
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nature
climber
Tucson, AZ
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Feb 23, 2009 - 02:41pm PT
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There's one thing missing from the drawing. The tears of fear pouring out his eyes. We only got two pitches above the Hollow Flake on my only attempt. I lead that pitch. It was worth it.
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SGropp
Mountain climber
Eastsound, Wa
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Feb 23, 2009 - 03:12pm PT
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This is quite interesting to find ones artwork, name and story being bandied about on the internet.
I did the image as a lithograph on stone in 1977. I gave an artists proof to Bill Zaumen. The image is reversed from the real setting because of the printing process.
I never thought of it as a cartoon, being a depiction of an absolutely terrifying climbing accident that happened while attempting the Salathe Wall in 1976. It seems I was given the assignment by "The Captain" of living out what must be every crack climbers worst nightmare; being badly stuck in a squeeze chimney with the potential for a certain long fatal leader fall if I suddenly became unstuck.
It was only through the truly extraordinary climbing and rescue efforts of my partner, Steve Swenson that I got out at all, although very much the worse for wear. This little epic lasted the entire length of a very long and brutally painful day.
I did manage to climb two El Cap routes back to back later that month, although I tended to avoid leading chimneys and offwidths for some time afterwards.
I would be happy to donate the artwork for the cause although I would like some kind artistic credit for it. It's so easy in this information age to rip off others work ,intentionally or not. Whoever is in charge of this project can contact me via my website: salamanderforge.com
I believe I have an original copy of the artwork if that is needed, although the posted photoshopped version is not too bad. I also have several other original prints in a similar vein.
I still have a number of scars from that accident, even after 33 years.
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MH2
climber
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Feb 23, 2009 - 03:47pm PT
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I remember Bill Z used to tell stories about some Wacky physicist and one in particular about how he talked his way out of a speeding my explaining how he could not be "accelerating at 75mph," or something.
Yes, thats-a story he told us. Ciao.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Feb 23, 2009 - 04:08pm PT
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Good one! I wonder how the cop and the judge felt about being schooled in basic Newtonian physics - the difference between speed, velocity, and acceleration? With maybe a few vectors and some basic relativity thrown in, for fun?
I suspect most speed-limit laws use the word "speed", e.g. "exceeded a rate of speed of ### kph" or "exceeded a speed of ### kph". It wouldn't take much knowledge of physics to expose that sort of thing, and at least have some fun.
I once knew a cop who regularly referred in court to people as "driving with undue care and attention". (The statute says "without due care and attention"). He wasn't amused when he was called on it. The defendant's lawyer rightly observed that there was no offence of "driving with undue care and attention", and indeed, if someone was driving in that manner, why was it a problem?
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mazamarick
Trad climber
WA
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Feb 23, 2009 - 10:28pm PT
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Steve,
It's curious how one gets reacquainted with the past through something like this. As soon as I read the post, saw the drawing, heard the names, it brought back a vivid memory loud and clear. Kit and I did the climb later that season and I was terrified of doing the same thing after hearing your story. Do you have any more prints? I'd love to hang one in our store just terrify sport climbers! Send me PM if you get a chance.
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Peter Haan
Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 23, 2009 - 11:19pm PT
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Okay, Simon King aka Ihateplastic, talk to me. You would be great to get this going. Chickenskinner does the Facelift with YCA. Stannard is your first order.
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Ihateplastic
Trad climber
Lake Oswego, Oregon
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Feb 24, 2009 - 12:45am PT
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Peter, I will be in touch Tuesday via e-mail. Gotta help my wife now with her finance homework! Ugh...
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corniss chopper
Mountain climber
san jose, ca
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Feb 24, 2009 - 04:06pm PT
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Alpine Climbers (July 25 1936): this has a bit of everything.
direct aid, rockfall, leadfalls, pet dog along for the trip,
crafty rope maneuvers, wildlife attacking the climbers, cut rope, and a keg of booze! The clairvoyance of the climbing to come in Yosemite is astounding.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2eX3xXV_a8
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MH2
climber
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Feb 24, 2009 - 07:33pm PT
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I wonder how the cop and the judge felt about being schooled in basic Newtonian physics
I think the speeder was Carlo Rubbia. He liked making things go fast.
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