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Basilisk
Ice climber
New Hampshire
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Topic Author's Original Post - Feb 9, 2009 - 08:34pm PT
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There was a discussion a little while ago about a few particular old guidebooks on mountainproject.com. The result was a few digital copies of some books, and I thought folks here might be interested too. Specifically I have an old Cannon Cliffs book, which I for one find extremely interesting because a lot of the routes don't exist anymore.
If you're interested, you can find it over here: http://www.mediafire.com/Basilisk613
There's also three other books in there if you're interested:
Manchester Rock Climbs in the Greater Manchester, NH Area By Paul Boissoneault and Dave & Marie Saball
1995's Comprehensive Guide to Pawtuckaway Rock Climbs By Paul Boissoneault and Dave & Marie Saball
Cannon Cliff By John Porter and Howard Peterson
Schist Another Hangout By Den Danna (This is Rumney)
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Thanks! I just downloaded the Pawtuckaway guide, which I used to own but it went walkabout years ago. The PDF version looks like a fine scan.
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perswig
climber
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I have that P-way guide, very nice; having Sara in school in Manchester gives me a good excuse to start poking around down there.
Never heard of the Manchester guide, though.
Thanks for sharing.
Dale
From the Cannon guide:
"The Old Man
John Waterman climbed the inside corner to the right of the Wiessners finish. It was described as being quite difficult. No pins should be used."
Understated and puritanical. Nice.
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Feb 10, 2009 - 08:34am PT
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What I've heard and read about the ambiance at Rock Rimmon in Manchester made that sound like a place I didn't need to go. If you find something worthwhile around town, post up!
I'm thinking Devil's Den needs a visit this spring, though.
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Alan Rubin
climber
Amherst,MA.
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Feb 10, 2009 - 08:59am PT
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While I admit not having been there in a number of years (maybe decades!!!!) and agree that the ambiance could be better--housing project behind the crag--Rock Rimmon does actually have some quite worthwhile climbing, especially for an in-town outcrop---was the initial training ground of Mr. Hudon and many others. There are other worthwhile bits of rock in the vicinity. "Base" (Paul Boisseneault) was told me about one interesting sounding little bolted crag somewhere in the outskirts of town. Of course the best "local" crag for the Manchester area, Joe English Hill, is on a USAF radar base and since 9/11 the "no trespassing" policy has been pretty strictly enforced. Too bad, as it is quite a decent crag with a good selection of routes and one of the longest climbing histories in the country. It is on the very edge of the base with a pond and camping/picnic facility below--formerly frequently used by scouts, etc, so could easily be separated from the base and be donated for a park without any dimunition to national security. Maybe some locals can pick up the ball and lobby the NH Congressional delegation.
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perswig
climber
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Feb 10, 2009 - 11:50am PT
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Thanks for filling in some gaps, Alan.
Chiloe,
with you on the Devil's Den - looks like some nice trad - but EVERYBODY says the black flies there are horrific. I may try to sneak in before the snow's gone, but after that it sounds prudent to wait into dry summer. your phlebotomy tolerance may vary.
Dale
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Feb 10, 2009 - 11:58am PT
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Yeah, Pawtuckaway has an early-spring window of opportunity, it doesn't last very long before the flies hatch.
Rusty Hammer with the Hammered Fist finish makes a long, varied pitch of crack climbing that would be right at home on Cathedral. The Wedge with its direct finish is fun too. Heat Wave makes my hands hurt just looking at it, and I'm not good enough to free those routes on far right.
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MH2
climber
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Feb 11, 2009 - 03:54am PT
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What about earlier Cannon guides? I don't remember his name but in summer '68 I spent a day at Mt. Nemo and then Rattlesnake with Andy Cox and another guy who had written a guide to Cannon, perhaps not published.
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Alan Rubin
climber
Amherst,MA.
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Feb 11, 2009 - 10:41am PT
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Wow, Andy Cox, that is a blast from the past---sad loss!!!! To my knowledge the first guidebook to Cannon that was published as a separate entity was by Howard Peterson in the early '70s(I'm at work so don't have the book handy so dates are estimates). However there were guide articles---complete with photos of the cliff showing approximate route lines--published in the AMC's Appalachia Bulletin. The first, written I believe by Earle Whipple, did appear in the mid/late "60s. After the initial burst of activity in the late '20s and '30s Cannon was relatively neglected by climbers(especially in terms of new route development), particularly after a rockfall incident in the early '50s injured a climber on the approach. But there was a renewed interested in the mid-'60s in which Whipple was an active participant and he documented this activity in his article along with the older routes. There was a later guide article by Bob Hall. By the way, MH 2---who are you?
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MH2
climber
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Feb 12, 2009 - 01:56am PT
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Thank you, Al! Bob Hall is the name I was looking for. If memory serves, in addition to going up from Buffalo to Canada for a day, along with his energetic friend referred to as "Nutty Buddy" in the report of the Yos tragedy, Bob Hall and I made a trip to the Gunks with a couple of sisters whose last name was Robson, I think, and Bob took me along for a pancake breakfast in town with Guy Waterman.
I was a student at Brown from '68 to '71, then lived in Poughkeepsie for 18 months before heading West. I remember seeing you at Cathedral and in the Tetons.
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jpin
Trad climber
CA
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Feb 12, 2009 - 02:27am PT
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I have a old Pawtuckaway guide It's
A Climber's Guide
to
Pawtuckaway State Park
and
Southeastern New Hampshire
by
Todd Swain
No date Late 80's maybe
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Basilisk
Ice climber
New Hampshire
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 12, 2009 - 05:10pm PT
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Never knew we had so many NH posters here, nevermind southern NH! I didn't think many people would be interested in anything but Cannon.
If any of you have old guides you'd like to share, regardless of state, I'd be more than interested. Feel free to post here or email me at Basilisk513@gmail.com. I'm especially interested in more Cannon!
Jpin- If you're comfortable with scanning that Swain guide I'd love to look at it. I'm pleasantly surprised by the amount of climbing in southern NH, and I'd love to see if it has any more- even just more detail!
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Feb 12, 2009 - 05:14pm PT
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I might have somewhere an absolutely unique old guide -- the climber's guide to UNH. It's a photocopy and I can't vouch for the route description ... I've looked at some of the lines described and they look hairball. Illegal too, I'm sure.
Also, they built a hotel on top of one crag.
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Feb 12, 2009 - 05:15pm PT
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I've got the maroon guide to Cannon but that hardly counts as old.
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meclimber
Trad climber
Dover, NH
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Feb 12, 2009 - 05:16pm PT
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I would love to see the swain southern NH guide. Was there ever a guide to stonehouse pond?
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meclimber
Trad climber
Dover, NH
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Feb 12, 2009 - 05:18pm PT
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Chiloe, that unh guide would be cool to see also. Can you scan that? When I was at unh we used to boulder under the hotel, there are still some slabs and smaller problems.
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Feb 12, 2009 - 05:35pm PT
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I'll rummage in my bookshelves tonight.
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richross
Trad climber
gunks,ny
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Feb 12, 2009 - 05:37pm PT
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New Hampshire cover shot. Ed Webster,Screaming Yellow Zonkers Crack.
Huge 16 page NH spread inside by Ed.Lots of photos and lines.
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Feb 12, 2009 - 05:40pm PT
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Neat! That Ed Webster article was the clinching argument for me accepting a job offer in NH.
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richross
Trad climber
gunks,ny
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Feb 12, 2009 - 05:47pm PT
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The old man of the mountain, Cannon cliff.
Antique Wedgewood tile.
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jpin
Trad climber
CA
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Feb 12, 2009 - 10:34pm PT
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Ok Basilisk This is the cover and the stone house page.
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Alan Rubin
climber
Amherst,MA.
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Feb 13, 2009 - 09:51am PT
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I climbed at Stonehouse a couple of times in the late '70s. I remember quite a neat little crag directly above the pond but on very private property. Is it still accessible?
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TRo
climber
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Feb 13, 2009 - 10:09am PT
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Sorry to enter the discussion late but, I'm not in the states right now so I can't access my guidebooks. I have a very old Cannon guide, John Porter comes to mind as the author, bought at the Skimeister ski shop in 72-73??? Maybe 15 routes in it. Rubin was still in his teens then, I think (sorry Al).
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Alan Rubin
climber
Amherst,MA.
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Feb 13, 2009 - 10:30am PT
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Hi TRo, You wrote "...in 72-73...Rubin was still in his teens then, I think." I only wish!!!!!---you're too kind. I think it was Peterson not Porter who wrote that first Cannon guide, but I might be wrong. Porter was surely in the area and working at Skimeister in the early '70s, but may already have left for the UK by '72-'73.
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meclimber
Trad climber
Dover, NH
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Feb 13, 2009 - 11:02am PT
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Stonehouse is currently has access issues, but the state is in limbo to buy the land and make it a state park with access for all. Great Cliff.
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Feb 13, 2009 - 11:30am PT
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meclimber, I didn't know the state was considering a purchase. IMHO Stonehouse is one of
the prettiest places in southern New Hampshire. We used to visit there often, before access
became such an issue.
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MH2
climber
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Feb 13, 2009 - 12:07pm PT
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Just a reminder
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meclimber
Trad climber
Dover, NH
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Feb 13, 2009 - 12:17pm PT
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A friend of mine got arrested for tresspassing just after the property changed hands a couple years ago. (You used to be able to get a waiver from the old land owner) His father works for the state doing something with land management, and he brought it before the right commitee and as far as I know we should be good in the next year or so.
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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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Feb 13, 2009 - 12:23pm PT
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I bought my first perlon rope at Skimeister in 1972. 165 feet for $58 !
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adamiata
Ice climber
Candia, NH
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Feb 17, 2009 - 10:07am PT
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That's good news to hear about Stonehouse Pond. Is there anything those of us that live in the area can do to help the process?
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meclimber
Trad climber
Dover, NH
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Feb 17, 2009 - 10:48am PT
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I was with that particular friend this weekend and it came up that it is well in motion. But I can ask him about particulars if you would like me to post up. The ice looked pretty good there this year too!
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Feb 17, 2009 - 11:29am PT
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But I can ask him about particulars if you would like me to post up.
Please do.
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Basilisk
Ice climber
New Hampshire
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 17, 2009 - 09:02pm PT
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Bonus!
I confess I've triple posted this thread into Mountainproject.com and RC.com. The good news is that Christopher over at MP uploaded the Swain guide as well as a new (I think better) scan of the Base/Saball Pawtuckaway guide.
As before, the guides can be found at http://www.mediafire.com/Basilisk613
Glad everyone's enjoying these. The Cannon guide now has 100 downloads! Remember this isn't just about NH, I'm sure everyone would appreciate history from around the globe. Just send me an email and I'll post it up Basilisk613@gmail.com (The email I gave a few posts up has a typo. Please use this one instead. I can't edit that post anymore)
Please do keep us updated on Stonehouse!
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adamiata
Ice climber
Candia, NH
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Feb 19, 2009 - 04:25pm PT
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Yes, bump for more information on Stonehouse.
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meclimber
Trad climber
Dover, NH
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Feb 19, 2009 - 04:50pm PT
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Climbed with the guy last night and forgot to ask, I'll be climbing with him this weekend and won't forget. Basilisk, thanks for posting those guidebooks, the swain book has stuff in it that I had no idea about. Anyone ever climbed in south berwick, maine. A couple good cliffs out there. Also, in New Durham there is another Devils Den that had some older development and is now seeing a second phase.
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Basilisk
Ice climber
New Hampshire
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 22, 2009 - 12:10am PT
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meclimber, any chance you could let us know where those areas are? Part of the reason I've been going through these old guides is for another project I've been working on. I'd love to include those areas if you don't mind. I just need directions and what type of climbing the area is. Feel free to post here or email me if you'd rather get a better idea of what I'm doing first. Basilisk613@gmail.com
Edit: also worth noting that the 1977 Notes on Joe English Hill has been uploaded
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Alan Rubin
climber
Amherst,MA.
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Feb 22, 2009 - 12:15pm PT
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Hi Basilisk, I'm interested in your comment re: the updating of the 1977 Joe English Notes. I climbed a reasonable amount with Paul's Duval and Niland and various other folks at Joe English in the late '70s into the '80s, and visited occasionally in subsequent years depending on the very varying access situation during that period. I have a set of privately published "notes" by Duval from sometime in that period but not sure of the date, so I'd love to see what you're referring to, and if it's different, send you a copy of what I have. I also know that we subsequently did a bunch of routes not included in those notes. Due to the "no bolt" (or few bolts placed free on the lead) ethic that we were adhering to at the time (how times have changed!!!!)and the absence of natural protection on most of them, these were mostly top-ropes. Some were of very good quality however. Doubt if I'd be able to resurrect where they all went or what we named them. Is Joe English currently accessible or is this just a matter of historic interest (with hope for future developments)?
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Edge
Trad climber
New Durham, NH
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Feb 22, 2009 - 12:36pm PT
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Meclimber, I currently live in New Durham, and was responsible for a number of unrecorded routes on that Devil's Den in the late 70's. I am a bit disappointed to see the current profusion of bolts, but understand that poop happens. There is another, methinks better, secluded cliff in New Durham as well. Not sure about access, but many stealth runs have proven fruitful.
BTW, I have the two issues of Appalachia from 1971 and 72 with a guide to Cannon routes in them, by Robert Hall, I believe. I can't currently scan anything, but would be willing to pass them on to the right person on loan, or else use the copier at work. I was the person who copied the Base/Saball Manchester guide for Christopher. I also have Duval's "Notes on Joe English," dated 10/20/78. Inside the front cover it states, "If you come to Joe English, we would appreciate your leaving your heinous bolt kit at home!"
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Alan Rubin
climber
Amherst,MA.
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Feb 22, 2009 - 01:01pm PT
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Hi Edge, As I said in my previous post, that was the ethic of the day, and for a time Paul was a purist---though bolted routes--even rap-placed ones--already existed at Joe. But Paul's opinions changed over time and he eventually placed numerous bolts---yes, even on rap. The reality is that climbing ethics are constantly evolving---partly due to the nature of the rock available for new-routing. For instance, Joe English has lots of areas of very climbable rock with few crack systems or other options for natural protection. We chose the top-rope option---my default option of choice!!!! Another would be the gritstone headpoint approach--or onsight for the talented and bold, both very pure but unlikely to prove popular given Joe English's height and poor landings, and the general 'not put it all on the line for a mere rock climb' approach of most US climbers(myself included). Creating some good sport or mixed routes there in addition to the already existing mostly trad routes(always presuming access is available)would be yet another option. In my opinion it should be up to the local climbers to decide---with them giving due consideration to the area's climbing history.
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Edge
Trad climber
New Durham, NH
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Feb 22, 2009 - 01:41pm PT
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Al, I know, I only went to Joe English a couple of times in 1979, but was of the same feeling that there was no need to add any metal to enjoy the place.
Unfortunately I have never gone back due to access concerns, although I remember it fondly. Because we got a bit lost on the way there, I have an association between Joe English and Blondie's "Heart of Glass" blaring on the car radio.
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Basilisk
Ice climber
New Hampshire
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 4, 2010 - 09:09pm PT
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We done got lucky! The Climber's Guide to UNH has now been uploaded! in case you forgot, here's the link http://www.mediafire.com/Basilisk613
It does come with a warning though:
"This guide will get you thrown in jail if you try any of the climbs but it's a great find for any climber in the state of NH or a past UNH Alum from the 70's to add to there collection of old guide books..."
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perswig
climber
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Thanks for keeping these gems out there, Basilisk. Nice to add another to the collection.
Dale
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slabbo
Trad climber
fort garland, colo
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I got a "guide" to Marlowe some where. Not a bad spot but I think it got chopped several years ago. The other area and i can't remember the name - had some good lines and a few bolts ?????? Went there with Joe Landry. A short 11+ roof , some steep sparsely bolted faces ???
Anyone have the "remote crags" guide ? I think by Tad Pfeffer, '70's
strand
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Alan Rubin
climber
Amherst,MA.
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Hi John and all, Happy New Year. Someplace I have a copy of Tad's Obscure Crag Guide, but it comes with a very heavy "no copying" admonition---I had to swear numerous oaths to obey this restriction in order to obtain my precious copy!!! So, absent a dispensation from the authors, I won't be scanning my copy even if I knew how to do so. Sorry. Alan
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slabbo
Trad climber
fort garland, colo
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AH ! The legal issue. Is there also a southern NH guide to, is it Mewe's Hill ?????
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Alan Rubin
climber
Amherst,MA.
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HI again, I think you are thinking of the Swanzey crag south of Keene. I believe it is Hewes Hill, or something similar. Yes, I also have a "rough" guide to there someplace in my collection. I don't believe there are any copyright restrictions on that one, but still have the "don't know how to scan/no scanning equipment" issue. Alan
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