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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno
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Topic Author's Original Post - Feb 4, 2009 - 08:20pm PT
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OK, here's the deal. I need a fair amount of dental work to be done - Probably around $6k. I seem to remember there being a number of dentists on this board...
I'm curious if there is a discount for paying cash work? If so, what would it be? I know a lot of doctors do this, where if you are paying cash instead of using insurance, it's about half the cost. Works out the same for the doc, in the end...
I have insurance, but the maximum covered amount is $1500, which doesn't cover sh#t. I'm just kinda curious what to expect when the insurance runs out. Anyone wanna pitch me some advice? Any Fresno dentists want to help a brutha out?
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WBraun
climber
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Dentists are a rip off. Just let your teeth fall out naturally.
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Ezra
Social climber
WA, NC, Idaho Falls
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Generally they require full payment up front, and won't negotiate discounts, very different form the medical profession.
Dentists make 3-4 times what a doctor makes on a per hour basis.
Good luck.
-e
Ps I'm not a dentist
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Ben Rumsen
Social climber
No Name City ( and it sure ain't pretty )
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"Dentists are a rip off. Just let your teeth fall out naturally."
Hahaha !!Then we can call Randy " Gummo " !! HA!
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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hey there nefarious, say, i wish you all kinds of prayer in this...
my experiences with dentist, since childhood and how they ripped off my mom, due to innocence (and great dental insurance, and the abiltiy to pay them good), in her just trying to do what was right, had turned me agains them, as all my teeth are falling out, due to one man's work---he worked in los gatos, near the dmv... long long ago... in the 60's....
*my mom, did take care of our teeth, too--but we had the "annual" dentist thing, as it was taught to her, to do so...
so--not sure if wbraun, is joking or serious, as folks DO have all kinds of humor, here... but i am with him, as to this dentist stuff... mine are just going out natural, as best they can... though--i did have to get some pulled, as they were just too badly damaged, from the huge fillings that man did... it was the only way to get the painful remnants out... without someone else messing it up more...
i sure hope the best for you, and will be praying that something good surfaces... something did, for me that once, and my folks helped me get the mess pulled out...
*ps, for you with kids, i took super good care of my kids teeth, and they never needed on---dont know how it will be as adults, as there life is now there own...
EDIT: nefarious, be very very careful who you pick, if and when you decide... also, check it out throught others, by word of mouth, etc... and do a thorough job of it... before you choose...
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tooth
Mountain climber
Guam
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I used to practice in California.
The half off doesn't work out for the dentist. He charges $1000 for a crown. 50% paid by insurance. He gets $1000. Insurance pays $500, you pay $500.
50% discount for cash pay means You pay $500, insurance pays $0, dentist gets $500 for a crown he pays more than that for? That 50% off for cash is an urban legend.
Maybe we should ask an accountant instead of a dentist!
Health insurance in the US is not like car insurance in BC where ICBC just gave my sister $4000 cash for here car she rolled in the snow the day before Christmas that she paid $3500 for. Health insurance, dental especially, is a group of business people who get monthly payments from you or your employer at say 100/mo. They limit their payout to less than what they are paid. This creates a profit which justifies creating an insurance company.
Paying yourself, or having your employer pay you monthly into an 'insurance' toothbrush fund would be just as effective.
So no, you as a society can't get more out of an insurance plan than you put in, I deal with it every day, and i don't see it happen.
The other thing that bugs me about insurance plans is that people believe that insurance companies are also DDS and know what is best for them. They trust the insurance company to make judgement calls and if they don't pay for a tx, they assume it must not be necessary and the dentist is making stuff up. I do write request letters to companies on behalf of patients, (did this week) in an effort to get them to cover needed tx like implants. Usually they will help out with the crown.
My advise to everyone is to deal with problems before they are big and expensive. Maintain your cars, change the oil, brush your teeth, get regular cleanings, and pay yourself every month. Put money in an account and don't touch it.
6K sounds like you would have root canals/crowns planned, and those are the hardest for a dentist to adjust prices on because the whole crown is made in a lab, so we have to pay the lab, and the only way to make that cheaper is make it out of cheaper metal, which shaves $50 off of an $800 crown, or send it to China to be made. Which I refuse to do. Buy north american, support your neighbors, and get crowns made with pure metals, not all the messed up stuff coming back from China's factories.
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 4, 2009 - 09:52pm PT
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Hey guys - thanks for the info, so far. Appreciate your taking the time. I kind of figured as much. Which takes me to Plan B.
Which is going out of the country for work. I've looked into this a bit, as I know a few people who've gone and had the work done. So I've seen the work I'd be getting done from the dentist I'd be going to. Funny how a trip to Mexico can save me 70% on what I'd pay here, and I get to make a vacation out of it. Sad I have to do that, but welcome to America. A lot of people are doing this now. Karl seems pretty happy with his eye surgery, for instance.
Also, while it may be true that dentists operate a little differently than docs, it's certainly not an urban legend that a good percentage of docs are not only charging less for cash on the spot vs. insurance, but that they are encouraging it, as it is a better deal for them, in the end. I know a number of people who are doing this and have read extensively about it from reputable sources. As far as dentists, though, I'll take your word tooth. You'd certainly know more than me.
Unfortunately, neebee, I think my situation is a lot like what you describe. Had some work done a number of years back when I broke teeth in a climbing fall and it seems as tho the work has caused the issues I have now. Plenty of brushing, etc. happening, to no avail.
Ben - just don't you worry, I can still drink all your wine with my gummos! :) I'll invite Werner too, as his dental plan seems conducive to his contributing to gumming your wine glasses! :)
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Russ Walling
Social climber
Upper Fupa, North Dakota
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Nef: I can believe that pinko Karl is all gung-ho on OUTSOURCING, be it his teeth/kidneys/eyes/whatever. It's not surprising to me for him to be getting his work done outside of the evil soil that is America..... but you too?!?!? The Shame!!!111
I've heard the dentist thing is good to go in Mexico. I don't like the fact I will be knocked out with like $2000 bucks in my pocket though. I would bring some heat and a friend. Hate to wake up with no money and no teeth in the Rio Grande. Maybe we can get a "Fleet Rate"?
EDIT: hahahaha! Google is already on to us..... ad from the top of the page:
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 4, 2009 - 10:31pm PT
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hahaha Nice!!! Laughing my ass off. Thanks, Russ.
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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hey there nefarious... say, my now-ex, did go to mexico, as we lived right near the border, and he had a root canal done, and we were poor-off and he could pay for it, in spite of that...
but---he had gone through word of mouth, by others that had success through the years, with the same guy, etc, and had no infection and all the "whatevers" that you have to look out for....
so check your resources very careful, first if you do this, and take a friend to watch over you, too...
dont' go in alone...
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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hey there, say... i do believe i've just heard ol' russ passing through these here parts...
:)
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 4, 2009 - 10:39pm PT
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"dont' go in alone..."
Always good advice when heading to Mexico, neebee! Thanks for reminding me. Luckily, one of my best friends' aunt is a dentist in Ensenada, so that sounds pretty good. Soemthing to look into, for sure.
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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hey there nefarious... go then... whewwwwwww... hopefully she'll make you some warm "caldo" (soup) after....
:)
god bless...
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happiegrrrl
Trad climber
New York, NY
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Tooth is(was) a dentist! That makes sense....
I have heard that here in NYC there is a dentist's school one can have work done. Student dentists do the work as part of their education(obviously under supervision), and rates that are less than what one pays a practicing dentist.
Wonder if Tooth can provide any insight on this as an option.
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tooth
Mountain climber
Guam
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Don't do mexico work! I can look at any of it, and now Philipines dental work in someone's mouth, and tell the person where they had it done. People think I'm magic, it screams MEXICO!. Sometimes I'm amazed at how long it lasts, usually they are in to replace it way sooner than is acceptable.
Margins of crowns don't fit, the dentists think it is acceptable to fill them in with cement, which eventually washes out. Then you get food in there under your gums, and no matter how you brush, the food won't come out. then your tooth decays more. And you feel like your brushing didn't do any good. Or they do fillings and leave decay at the bottom of the hole.
I there are always unusual cases, but the majority of what I find from these two countries is like this.
As far as dental schools.... when you get work done there it takes forever. But when the student does a root canal, he has a dentist who is a specialist and usually the textbook author of the best endo texts overseeing them. Same with dentures, etc. USC, University of the Pacific, UCLA, UCSF, Loma Linda School of Dentistry are all in California. UBC in Vancouver. They have much cheaper rates usually, and if you get a senior (they usually don't let you choose, and if you are a guy asking for an asian female 'because she has smaller hands' they will kick you out) the time won't be as much of a factor. Remember, they have to seat you, present to the teacher. Anesthetize you, cut the prep, present to the teacher. Fill the hole. Present to the teacher. It all takes a lot of time. Customer satisfaction is high though.
Mexican/PI dental work makes me cringe. You get what you pay for, even if you don't know it until you loose your teeth.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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India has some well trained dentists who do amazing stuff. My girlfriend got two crowns on her two front teeth, a cleaning and maintenance, and the whole whitening routine, for under $500.
Would have cost thousands here.
Peace
Karl
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Double D
climber
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I've got a great Dentist....
Just email me if you want a referral!
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tooth
Mountain climber
Guam
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Looks like Meth mouth to me Double D.
Karl, I'd love to see radiographs of your girlfriend's crowns. I haven't seen any medical work from there. Spent a month travelling and saw more bad teeth than anywhere except for the high desert.
Oh, Costa Rica. I have a pt. in a few minutes from there. Can't tell the difference between her style of work and Mexico or the PI. I kept some of her teeth that fell out. You could fit a whole kernel of corn under the excess crown under her gums, which is why she was having gum problems 7 years later.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Tooth
The story was that she had her two front teeth knocked out as a kid. The stupid dentist in the states at the time tried to fill the space by squeezing the laterals together to the front with braces.
The Indian dentist ground those laterals down as a basis for the front crowns.
A different dentist I saw in Delhi the year gave me a checkup, scaling, and filled a tooth for $25. We didn't even use novacaine (although I had the option if it hurt) But it didn't hurt and wound up being the least pain I ever had in a filling.
He didn't have quite as modern a gear as Dentist #2 but you can check out his site
http://www.delhidentist.in
The guy took about 15 minutes after the checkup to explain all kinds of things to me. We went for the most conservative treatment as he thought the thousands of dollars my US dentist had recommended was BS to line his pocket. Seen dentists in the US and India since then and it must have been true since nobody has recommended the expensive procedures since.
Peace
Karl
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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It's worth checking out that dental site cause it's SO different than a US dentist. He tells you exactly what materials he uses and from where and the prices are all disclosed online in advance.
Here's a sample from crowns
"Non Precious All Metal Crown INR 2,000
US $41.30/-
Non Precious Metal Ceramic (IPS d.SIGN) INR 3,500
US $72.27/-
Non-Precious Metal Ceramic (IPS d.SIGN) INR 4,000
US $82.60/-
All Precious Metal Crown (BEGO Gold)* INR 18,000
US $371.70/-
Precious Metal Ceramic (BEGO Gold) * INR 18,000
US $371.70/-
Metal Free All Ceramic (Empress 2) INR 8,000
US $165.20/-
Metal Free All Ceramic (IPS e.MAX) INR 8,500
US $175.52/-
Metal Free All Ceramic (Procera)* INR 14,500
US $299.42/-
Full Dentures (Regular ) INR 7,000
US $144.55/-
Full Dentures (Hi-Strength) INR 10,000
US $206.50/-
Valplast Partials (starting from) INR 5,500
US $113.57/-"
Peace
Karl
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tooth
Mountain climber
Guam
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Karl, your tooth didn't hurt because he didn't cut through the enamel into the dentin where you would feel it.
Someone could say then that he was over-treating you and you could have used MI Paste to re-mineralize the enamel and not cut the tooth.
They could say the same thing about your girlfriend's laterals. Why weren't no-prep veneers placed on the teeth instead of irreversibly cutting them and putting crowns on? The veneers wouldn't leave the black line at the edge of her gums...
You see, there are a million views on each treatment plan, every dentist will have a different opinion and nothing really makes any sense without an exam.
I can't comment on that Indian practice - have never seen their work. Site looks good though.
The only thing I can recommend is to use dentists from the US/Canada with good reputations. The vast majority of work I have seen, especially now practicing overseas, is poor.
There isn't really a difference in my opinion of Canadian vs. US dentistry except that the Canadian licensing exams are much harder and relevant/practical.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Tooth, you're missing one important point.
My girlfriend has had a huge gap in the front of her mouth since the age of 11 or so. Folks in our economic class find other things to blow $6000 on than some dentist.
$500 is another story.
I never would have been able to cough up $5000 for lasix either, but $600 was within reach.
I'm pissed that I ran into a US dentist that wanted to do thousands in work I didn't need. Classifying dentists my nationality is hardly justifiable. Lots of US dentists are immigrants. Lots of Indian dentists trained in the west. How do you tell which is best?
Lots of losers on every side of the ocean, but one thing is certain,
If you can't afford the treatment, it hardly matters if it is marginally better.
PEace
Karl
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tooth
Mountain climber
Guam
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Sorry that you understood me as classifying dentists as your nationality. a full fifth of my class were dentists re-training in the US from other countries would return after. Caucasian men weren't the majority. What I am saying though is that you have a higher chance of getting quality work done by a dentist trained in an American school than these other places I have seen, and you will get a much better quality product produced in north american labs than say, from a lab around where I live now.
One thing you should remember is that in school the smarter kids in the sciences get picked because they have better grades in the pre-dent classes, and they end up going through dental school. They don't teach business in dental school. They teach you how to do a filling, what ideal preps look like, how to decide what will be the healthiest, last the longest, look the best.
Suddenly the studying nerds are out running multi-million dollar businesses with no background in business. They do what they know. Restore to as close to ideal as they know.
Remember, the A students teach the B students how to work for the C students. In this case, the B students work for themselves, and many of them hate business.
So they don't know to cater their product to the individual who walks in the door. You may have encountered dentists who either wanted to narrow their patient base to a certain demographic, or didn't know what they were doing. They just assume when the patient never returns for the treatment that they didn't want the dentist's version of what was the correct treatment.
Now if all dentists were required to take a business class, or liked business, didn't complain at dental society meetings about the headache of running a business, didn't start working for these terrible 'dental mills' that are popping up everywhere in California that take care of the business and let the dentist do what he likes best, cutting preps... if that were different it would probably affect the public's view of dentistry in a different manner. But it doesn't, and it's not, because of what it takes to become a dentist in our society.
There are always acceptations to the rule, and newsworthy or noteworthy cases will stand out in people's minds because they are just that, different. This tempers the public's opinion more than the 10 normal good dental visits the other people on the Taco Stand had because these guys write about it. But generally the guys with science smarts - not business smarts - get into dental school, and it shows in the general dentist population today.
On another note...
Right now I'm in the process of joining a group that spends the 3rd full week of every month on surrounding Micronesian islands providing free health care for everyone. Some of the islands have only 140 people on them! Can't wait to get started. It's not going to be fancy dental work, health-centered, not necessarily esthetically-centered, but it should be fun. If only supplies weren't so expensive. I pay ~$200 more for non precious all metal crowns as a lab fee than that Indian dentist has them listed for, and I get charged up to $500 for 5mL bottles of bonding agents to glue in fillings.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Here's the thing. There are tons of people in India with HORRIBLE teeth. Lots of poverty there, and probably lots of substandard dentist too, who only get the patient when it's too late and they have to make due with minimal care that the patient can afford. Naturally you see some horror stories.
The difference is this, as a westerner, if you can find the right recommendations, you can afford the super-star, smartest and best dentist in a country like India.
Every country has smart people and stupid or greedy people. Every country has people willing to take reasonable rewards to serve people and even do some charity work, and also folks to do it for the money alone.
Tooth wrote
"Right now I'm in the process of joining a group that spends the 3rd full week of every month on surrounding Micronesian islands providing free health care for everyone. Some of the islands have only 140 people on them! Can't wait to get started. It's not going to be fancy dental work, health-centered, not necessarily esthetically-centered, but it should be fun. If only supplies weren't so expensive. I pay ~$200 more for non precious all metal crowns as a lab fee than that Indian dentist has them listed for, and I get charged up to $500 for 5mL bottles of bonding agents to glue in fillings. "
Way way too much gouging goes on in the medical field. $500 for a 5 ml bottle. Sounds obscene (obviously you could ship 5ml bottles anywhere in the world cheap) Kudos to you for doing free work. Who are the guys charging you $500 for 5ml? Is there any justification for such a thing?
Have friend who worked in Biotech, they charged 10000x as much for some chemical they sold to some other biotech firms, than it costs the public when they buy it in consumer products like Rain-x.
When fees aren't disclosed and you can't shop by price, when they expect insurance to pay for things, then the incentive for fiscal honesty starts to erode.
I'm sick of our bogus system where I know friends who were almost given $10,000 injections before they asked at the last second "I really have to know what this will cost me and if it is necessary"
Peace
Karl
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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LEb
"I have no doubt that the Indian dentists are highly competent and can do great work. Your girlfriend's teeth look great. But by the time you figure in the cost of the air fare and the hotels, meals, etc., have you really saved anything? "
Yup, her whole trip for 5 weeks + cost under $2000 including souvenirs and medical stuff. In the states, they had been quoting $6000+
In any case, people should just investigate. Lasix, I hear, cost $1200 in Canada for Both eyes, $3000 t0 $5000 here. Lots of climbers like to travel. Why not free vacation and get your stuff handled.
If I had great insurance and money here, I wouldn't bother, there are risks
PEace
Karl
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tooth
Mountain climber
Guam
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LEB,
I see at least 5 patients a day who have had dental work done in the PI, Philippine Islands. I have yet to find any of it that isn't grossly negligent, and should be replaced to protect the patient's health.
If you find a good example let me know. Like Karl said, I'm sure there is a superstar dentist somewhere in the country - haven't seen his work yet.
I'm glad the Indian dentists are apparently doing great work, but just to point out one thing... they advertise that they have education from the UK and US. Particularly the top-down endo education from the US that the woman took. A 12-hour class on a technique that is taught in dental schools in the US for weeks on end, then is required to take 30 hours of continuing education every year to maintain a license... you see, if US dentists advertised all their CE courses like was done on this dentist's website the education qualifications would cover a page or more if you want to compare apples to apples.
That and the fact that they do not have doctorates, just technician's 4-yr college bachelor degrees. You aren't comparing apples to apples.
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nature
climber
Tucson, AZ
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excuse me while I go brush and floss.
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WBraun
climber
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Ah ....
Cuisinart blend all your food and swallow.
Who needs teeth when you can have a Cuisinart .....
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nature
climber
Tucson, AZ
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hard to get one of those working on a wall.
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WBraun
climber
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I have battery ...
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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I'm sure PTPP is working on the blender thing right now, for his next big wall camping trip.
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SteveW
Trad climber
The state of confusion
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Nef
Check your local medical school/university.
They usually have a dental school also, where dental students
(under supervision), treat those with fewer resources.
It probably varies from school to school, but you'll probably
get good quality care for a whole lot cheaper.
I've a friend who's a dentist who donates time at our local
university on occasion.
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tooth
Mountain climber
Guam
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When in Doubt, Pull it Out!
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Katie MacInnis McCoy
climber
Seattle, WA
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I don't know what kind of work you do - but have you considered doing a barter with a dentist? My husband owns a landscaping company and does a lot of barter work. I don't think he's ever had to pay his dentist - he does landscape work for him in exchange for all his dental - same with his chiropractor. He's on my medical plan at my work but sometimes it's still an easier way to go - to do a barter. Just a thought...
The other one is to check out the dental school in the area - as others have said.
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 5, 2009 - 05:05pm PT
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"When in Doubt, Pull it Out! "
You know, when I practice this it usually goes well, but on some occasions, I've been slapped... Dunno...
edit: Lots of good reading here, guys. Thanks! Oh, `cept you Fatty! Sheesh! Not like I'm ruthless and toothless or anything!
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Ezra
Social climber
WA, NC, Idaho Falls
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Had a friend who got great dental work done as part of a Dental board exam for a new graduate here in the US.
It took him 8 hours to get the work done, but that was the only down side.
I believe the work was free.
-e
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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After my mom retired (degree in 1942, retired in 1992 - 50 years of looking in people’s mouths, no thanks, not for me) that was the end of my free dental care.
In 1995 I went to University of Pacific Dental School in San Francisco. The first student I got was a bloody joker, I saw him once and I told the admin that I wanted another, at first they said no but then relented. I got a senior, Charles, whose father was a dentist that my mom knew.
Charles was at the top of his class and the two root canals and two crowns he did were first class, though they did take a while. The student has to go get a professor/lecturer to check their work, and sometimes there is a queue, with several students waiting. So it does take a while.
Dentists in Ireland are a rip-off, many people go to Northern Ireland, where the costs are 30-50% less expensive.
For the past three years I have been going to students at Trinity College dental school. Much the same as UoP in SF, good treatment, under professional watchful eyes, but it takes so long.
I was lucky that I had a third year student, Matt (a surfer), who also saw me in his fourth and fifth years until he graduated. He is good and is now practising in Edinburgh (he wanted to get away from Ireland for some experience). Now I have some young gal, a third year student, and she is not the greatest.
Access Smile, based in Cork, uses Hungarian dentists in Budapest. You go to their clinic in Cork for an examination and then go to Budapest for the treatment. The dentists are apparently very well trained and qualified. Any minor follow up work is done back in Ireland. The costs are much cheaper than Ireland, and Budapest is not all that expensive to stay for the week (more or less depending on the treatment) of the treatment.
Perhaps there is something similar in the States.
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Brock
Trad climber
RENO, NV
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Too many medical issues related to not getting your teeth done. Higher risk for endocarditis...which could lead to a very costly heart valve replacement...if not death...
Let's see:
Abscess
bacteremia
question of earlier heart disease
endocarditis
AND DOES NOT HELP PICK UP CHICKs
It is your health!
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 6, 2009 - 12:25pm PT
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"You might be interested to know that unlike medical insurance, there are not a lot of "good" dental insurance plans. ..... Typically the cover only a portion of whatever you are having done and not an esp big portion, either.
They normally have yearly caps which are met almost immediately if you are having crowns or any other such expensive work done. They also exclude anything remotely cosmetic. Generally, dental insurance plans suck whereas medical insurance tends to cover most of what you need. "
I'm a little confused by what you say, LEB. You totally contradict yourself. You start by saying that there are a lot of good dental plans, in comparison to (shitty) medical plans. Then you mention all the reasons that dental plans suck and go on to follow it up by saying how much better medical plans are then dental plans.
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scuffy b
climber
just below the San Andreas
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What part of not...
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 6, 2009 - 12:55pm PT
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hahaha Guess you guys are right. lol See what happens when you're skimming at work? Sorry, Lois.
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 6, 2009 - 12:57pm PT
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Del Cross - Yeah, that's the plan I have. 80%, but a yearly maximum of $1500, which doesn't cover sh#t. Just had a look - nothing mentioned about implants. Had a friend who was going to get a couple - you're not going to get implants for anywhere near a couple grand, here in the U.S.. Try more like $6k+.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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LEB wrote
"You might be interested to know that unlike medical insurance, there are not a lot of "good" dental insurance plans. I have had a variety of jobs and a variety of plans. Typically the cover only a portion of whatever you are having done and not an esp big portion, either...."
"I agree that dentists are not esp oriented toward providing alternatives. Because I am very assertive, I have had forceful arguments in the past with my dentist regarding what I want done (versus what he wants done)..."
I pity the fool!
" Typically, he wants the Cadillac version and I am arguing for the Chevy. He is very assertive and I win out only because I am equally assertive and it is, after all, my mouth. My solutions "work." he just does not esp like them because there are more perfect (and much more expensive) ways of doing xyz. We have been having these discussions for decades now."
Good for you. He can sign up for Supertopo and try for revenge here on you.
"We had a very strange relationship in the past. He was just out of dental school when I first met him and he began working on my mouth. He would get all upset because my mouth would bleed so much and I was always reassuring him in the process that everything would be fine. "
Since you want the "Chevy" solution, tell the dentist that we at Supertopo recommend bailing wire and duct tape for the problem which should kill numerous birds with the same stone! ;-)
I ranted about dental insurance before. It's a weird loophole in our medical system. Fortunately you keep your mouth muscles in top condition so you're probably in fine shape
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.html?topic_id=645383
"I know we're not supposed to discuss things that belong to the sacred realm of the professional but this is an issue that our parents face and we will face.
Most retired peoples insurance doesn't cover dental care and neither does medicare. My Dad is a combat vet but the VA doesn't cover it either except in the problems started in the service.
Independent dental insurance often won't insure the elderly and inexpensive discount plans are available in limited localities.
HSA, medical savings plans could reduce elderly people's expenses but you're not eligible if you are on Medicare (which doesn't cover dental)
What are the old folks supposed to do? My mom got a tooth pulled from an oral surgeon last week and the bill was $1500!
Am I missing something. I like to find out info to help my folks but I'm stumped. At least you can think to plan ahead for this aspect of your retirement if you haven't thought of it. (Getting an HSA now could save you money when you no longer have dental insurance and don't qualify for an HSA in the future because you're on medicare)
Peace
Karl"
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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yeah LEB, it's nuts.
Problem with teeth is that they are right in pain central, your head!
Peace
Karl
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tooth
Mountain climber
Guam
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Brock, last year I knew of 3 patients who died of endocarditis stemming from dental pain (infection). One was 22, one 26, and the other in his 40's. All happened in California. The 22year old had a nurse do CPR on him for an hour in a helicopter as they flew him to the hospital, she came in to see me shortly after to get her own teeth checked it shook her up so bad.
The other 2 were patients of friends of mine. It happens.
Del Cross, sounds like you know what you are talking about compared to some....
Karl, your VA doesn't cover much of anything for your vets. I have done more free work for the military of your country out of pity because of all the trash I see... they are treated as disposable. Teeth that need fillings are ripped out (causing TMJ problems in one poor 22-yr old female soldier who had her leg ripped off by a roadside bomb in Iraq) and root canals are done quickly without even finishing the tooth with a crown. I'd give them 1-2 years before fracturing. Guys come in with military papers asking if they will be healthy enough to function through another tour. I'm very very conservative.
I don't know what the answer is for your parents.
LEB, that makes sense! Divide cosmetic/essential health dentistry and cover that with insurance. Unfortunately insurance companies think implants are cosmetic. The only implants that are usually cosmetic don't go under your gums. They really need to catch up on the industry they are insuring. More and more dentists at home in Canada are going cash-only and letting people deal with their own insurance companies. Hopefully this trend spreads as it will reduce demand in the industry and get people to realize what they are really paying into.
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tooth
Mountain climber
Guam
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The reason dental insurances do that is because they can. People keep buying into them, and dentists keep signing on to them.
They don't claim anything. They don't claim to know dentistry, know what is best for you, cover enough to heal you or care. DentiCal at least covers disease control for poor people in California, but they won't help restore anything unless it is a denture.
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Indianclimber
Trad climber
Lost Wages
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Nita that youtube video is great ,poor kid
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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I pay careful attention to dental hygiene, and have for many years. My teeth tend to rapidly accumulate plaque, and so I get them professionally cleaned every three months. The dentist and hygienist say that some people are like that, and that there's nothing I can do to improve how I brush, floss, etc.
If you haven't had regular professional dental care for a while, and are now able to do so, get a full exam. If you need significant work, talk with the dentist about priorities and budget. It may be possible to do the work over a year or two, and some dentists may be willing to consider a 'package' deal.
Time spent in reconnaisance is never wasted, and neither is time or money spent on health care, including dentistry.
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Rhodo-Router
Gym climber
Otto, NC
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Anyone know a good implant specialist? I need one.
PM okay.
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micronut
Trad climber
fresno, ca
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Rhodo, half of my practice is implant based and its a bit of a subspecialty of mine. E-mail me if you have any questions.
Scott
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| Messages 1 - 51 of total 51 in this topic |
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