Thanks alot for wrecking another thread scuffy b. I asked a simple yes or no question and you have to go on and on like what seemed like forever with your big-worded smartypants answers that weren't even pertinent to the thread. I certainly can't blame the poor fellow, in fact what with some of the insensitive post, I'm surprised he didn't go postal like those trouble making Colorado kids did.(Grug and Tom, they worship Satan) I'm apologizing for everyone, even people who didn't post.
Hey, the Paranoid Horse nuked the thing before my long-winded
post chock full of big words even got posted!
However, I think I'm detecting a pattern.
Not many threads get eliminated unless you and I both post
So make sure you put some wonderful irreplaceable writing and
pictures in this one, so the freakin OP can nuke the thing.
let me get this straight. I delete the thread because i think it's lame to talk about salsa, chipping, etc. when i want to talk about climbing and that means i chip holds. I've never chipped, but what good does it do to say it, sounds like everyone has already made up their mind.
It just so happens that i do know who has chipped in the area, which route, which sections etc. and i think it's a complete waste of time to pursue talking about it. The whole point of doing so would be to castigate the person as if everyone else is so freaking ethically pure. i don't believe in that.
I've put up ~50 routes in the area, and i'd be happy to go climbing with anybody from anywhere, any time i'm in the area on any of the routes i've put in and y'all can have a look for yourself. I'll even take you to the chipped routes if you want. Just so everybody knows, before we 'settle it in the parking lot'...what we're talking about here, seriously there's like 10 chipped holds in probably 200 routes. That's the size of the Jardine Traverse!!
Yeah, now we know who the chipper is! Hey, before I heat up the tar, it's the butcher at Raley's isn't it? My second choice would be the waitress at El Cids where they serve very good watered down salsa, but not as good as the unwatered down salsa of yore. Next would have to be Ernest T. Bass. He does this kinda work as a professional. The locals have named a lake after him!
Heya, Matt. See what happens when you post totally anonymously? haha :) I know your routes are legit, and I'll go climb them with you. Are you back in the area?
But, when chipping comes up, that's kinda the way it's gonna go here, not cause "everyone else is so freaking ethically pure", but because most people don't chip holds and most can agree on this one ethical thing as being a HUGE no-no (for a change). It's quite a bit different from arguing about bolts, etc...
For the record, it's usually referred to as the Jardine Travesty and a huge shameful blemish on the face of the proudest stone around. All caused by one selfish guy. Shameful bummer.
--Ran (I believe you have my number)
edit - for the record, Matt's not out chipping holds.
sure, nobody thinks the chipped holds should be there, and yet everyone who is trying to free the nose has used them. So what's the message? is it 'lets not do it, unless it's in a spot that's on a route that alot of people want to free'? then it's okay? I'm not saying it's okay, and i don't believe in it at all. All i'm saying is let's not judge, since if you were trying to free the nose, you'd probably use those holds too. Afterall, Jardine did alot for the sport, and for that he's got alot of my respect
I delete the thread because i think it's lame to talk about salsa, chipping, etc. when i want to talk about climbing
You can start a thread, but you don't own it. You can light the campfire, but others who are standing around are gonna throw on a log.
I was kind of enjoying the conversation branching out. I mean, I chuckled at the salsa and the beard nets and I got sucked into some sarcasm and I blew it and others were cool with me and we went on. And I learned a lot about an area I'm very fond of, as you are, and I got a glimpse of some folks who are really active there, including you.
For years I have wondered who else has been working the place and what they are like, as people. Thanks to your thread I've been finding out not only a bunch about the unreported routes out there, but also how people who matter cuz they are activists feel about guidebooks, chipping and, yes, even the local salsa and margs.
I was just getting warmed up at that campfire. Please don't piss on it.
Just sayin' that this is the wrong crowd to try to preach that to... I'm hopin' you're not going to try to say he invented cams, `cause that's gonna get people fired up right away here. If so, don't. You'll just trash the thread in which you were trying' to get info and climbing partners in. Best to leave the valley history to the valley folks.
So, are you lookin' to climb or just spewin'? Seriously. You said you were lookin' to climb and blew over everything else I said.
edit: "I've been finding out not only a bunch about the unreported routes out there, but also how people who matter cuz they are activists feel about guidebooks, chipping and, yes, even the local salsa and margs. "
Don't forget the hot waitress, Doug! Sheesh! Now who's keepin' the thread on track!
Crazy Horse, the important issue here is that the thread got
Somebody made a remark about the "identity" of the chipper.
That does not mean AT ALL that anybody actually believes you
to be the chipper.
The thread was filled (I mean, "contained") many wonderful posts
with information generally unavailable to the denizens of this
Forum. Many posters coughed up unbelievable content.
Deleting the thread because you don't like people to talk about
salsa...or you don't like people to joke around...you took
things from everybody that reads these threads.
I don't give a rat's ass about the identity of the chipper.
I'm glad to hear that the problem is smaller than it could be.
i can't affort to be suuuuper interested in climbing right now since i live in Seattle now and our weather suuuuuuucks. it's a 550 dollar round trip to fly to Fresno and i just can't afford it. Plus it's ski season, so i'm heading up to the hill about 3 days a week right now. That said, i've been super lucky to get in 4 (about 11 pitches climbing) new routes last season, all on side trips from work gigs in Tehachapi.
Scuffy - Not sure. I tried to post a reply and got the same. I thin that's jsut some sort of cache we're seeing. Even tho it comes up in the ST search engine when I do a search for "salsa". I was under the impression that RJ had fixed it so that when a the OP removes his post that the thread stays on... Who knows what's going on tho.
Matt - Ahh... Thought maybe you were back in town. When you get in, look me up so we can finally hit some routes. Just so ya know, we're a lively bunch, and most are just razzin' ya, dude.
I'm just thinking, What A Resource that other thread is/was.
By the time I ever get around to going to those places, I won't
remember the existence of the thread.
A bigger loss for other people than for me, realistically.
Better luck next time, Crazy Horse. So-called thread drift must
be respected (and expected).
hey there guys... say, i just stepped in to see what i could learn about southern yosemite.... '
sorry, say, perhaps this will grow again, and there will be some pics.... hope all will be well, guys...
sometimes, once the brush-fire clears, a wonderful new crop of trees can grow....
also---out of curiousity, technically, which part of yosemite is considered "southern" and for you climbers, which routes does this area contain, (yet, i need to know, by rock area, such as el cap, three brothers? glacier, etc, or i will not know what you all are talking about----then, you CAN name the routes, after i am placed, better...
*not being dumb on perpose here, but where is the boundries for noth, and east... and even west, mark (chappy) lived in yosemite west, and i rememeber, we drove out on a long stretch of nicely walled road?? and through a tunned, ? if i remember right???
I agree with Doug - I like the place behind Galen's too.
Fact is though, unless it's really bad, I think if you've been out climbing hard all day and pull up to a Mexican joint that serves decent food and margs, it's probably the best place you've been to in a long time! Kinda the like the McDonald's I had on the way to the airport in Cairo, while I was starving, after eating weeks of Egyptian food...
A bit late to the party here, but just for the record, Like Matt, I LOVE Soyo as well. Kind of obsessed with understanding more of it's mystery/history, but little time to do so. Cool to hear a few folks here were climbing there in the 70s.
Roger B. - please do continue to track down those photos. Been years since I last prodded you. :) I think I know the roadside overhanging thing you mention.
JEleazarian - where's the one bolt you placed on Squaw?
Spencer did the best he could with what little info was available. Updated guidebooks are sort of in the works, but if you poke around and talk to the right folks, plenty new info is available already. Word of mouth is fun and trad, no? And lest anyone be mistaken that this vast area is overrun with sport routes, I beg to differ. Much of Shuteye Ridge maybe, but that's only a half to a third of the rock out there.
I'll say a little about Southern Yosemite Mountain Guides, since I've been guiding with them for years.
They're a thriving guide service started by some dirtbags who lived together at Bass Lake almost 20 years ago.
SYMG teaches rock climbing at Fresno Dome and beyond. And guides big mountains in South America. And -- you may not believe the audacity -- guides fly fishing where they snare their wily prey without a beard net.
But the bigger part of their business is backpacking, which ranges throughout the Sierra. They do trips into the Ansel Adams Wilderness, Yosemite and Sequoia-Kings. They even guide the entire John Muir Trail.
They do well by being really good to their clients, which regularly earns them magazine hype like "best outfitter on the planet."
Angus and I did an ascent of Liberty on Chiquito Dome, sh#t, early to mid 90s. That route was Burl's first multi-pitch route and his 2nd ever on a rope, but this day with Angus was before that, call it 91 I guess.
Anyway, as someone already noted, Shuteye and Chiquito, particularly the south facing Chiquito, get friggin HOT in summer.
So we like did the route, yo?
One of those days when the rock burnt your fingers and the black rubber of the shoes SMOKED if you let them on the rock too long in the same place. Gotta climb like those desert beatles that pick up their feet like a cat on a hot tin roof.
We ran out of water long before we finished the route. We drank what little we had left when we got back to the packs.
We had left NO WATER in the car. And omg it was HOT (in the 90s). It had been a major mistake to climb there that day, a lesson we took to heart.
So thrashing down to the Beasore road from Chiquito we emerged from the woods onto the road, beyond parched. Knowing there was no water in the car and a LONG DRIVE to the nearest store, we were sorta dispaired.
As we walked down the road back to the car Angus spotted a plastic bottle of Dr. Pepper embedded in the dried mud in the ditch along side of the road. He saw the cap was still on it and it appeared full.
Angus being Angus, he pulled that f*#ker out and held it up.
"Look Dingus, it hasn't been opened. Want a drink?"
I looked at it and sure enough the security ring was intact. An unopened soda, pulled from the dried mud of a summer ditch - how long had it been there?????
Dr. Pepper no less.
Me being me I'm all,
"I will if you will!"
And without fanfare he gave r a twist. Of course hot Dr Pepper sprayed all over everywhere. Then he took a quick swig, grimaced and passed it to me. Sh#t it was on now so I tilted my head back and took a swallow too.
It was awful man! Like drinking hot bubbly battery acid. Yum. So I took one more swig and handed it back. The bottle had been in the sun, I bet that liquid was 120 degrees or more, HOT ancient mud ditch Dr Pepper.
So we got back to the car. We were so desperate we decided to drink from Chiquito Creek.
Ever looked at that creek? I'm guessing this situation has changed. I think there had been extensive logging upstream the previous year, maybe a fire or something.
Anyway the creek bottom was coated with red something or other, Red Death maybe, maybe red lands dirt and runnoff, maybe mining or logging runnoff, we had no idea.
The water had a funny tinge to it as well.
I walked out to the center, intent on finding something suitable to drink. Something in the water moved in front of me.
An enormous trout! The thing was sick and dying and could not swim any faster than I could walk. The water was shallow and the beast couldn't get going. I reached down and hauled it bodily out of the water, I bet it weighed 10 pounds. I held it up to Angus - (still had my accent on those days)...
"Look Angus, this is how we fish in Tennessee!"
I let the dying fish go. We could not summon the nerve to drink that water though.
"Wish Ida kept the Dr Pepper" lamented Angus.
So we drove uphill and then back down past the Balls to get to that little store, don't recall the name anymore. Maybe the Beasores Meadow store?
We hoped and hoped it would be open. Goddamn but we were thirsty, had had no water at all since the top of p3 on the climb. Oh, and the Dr. Pepper.
Finally we got to the store and it was OPEN!
We each bought 2 bottles of gatorade and downed them both before we even left the parking lot. Man that was GOOOOOOD!
We ate at El Cids that day. You El Cid haters can kiss my big ass bazat!
amigos- mexi place on main drag- not bad for "cow" town like bishop here my quick and easy recipe for carnitas- crock pot,pork shoulder, onion, garlic, one MEXICAN beer, water, throw it in and come back in 4 hrs or so -muy bien!!
My latina hottie friend Joann makes a mole to die for. And to top it off she hand fries chunks of tortillas into her own piping hot chips. I LOVE hot, fresh fried FLOUR chips (I really detest corn tortillas, I'd never last in Mexico).
I'd make the salsa and the whole Milktoast clan would dig in.
Joann also introduced into the world of Mexican grocers. I love those little places. Anyway, one down the street here sells fresh carnitas by the pound - we do that pretty much once a week.
I'll give the crockpot a whirl. My wife's attempts at carnitas have been, ah... unfortunate.
So obsessed with salsa here we kinda blew past your question. Sorry, cuz it's a good one and there isn't a simple answer.
The heart of Southern Yosemite is a big plateau that sits off to the east as you're driving through Oakhurst going from Fresno into Yosemite.
If you look really closely from that grade on hwy 41 as it descends into Oakhurst, you'll see a few granite outcrops off to the east. Kind of underwhelming because they're far away, and anyway not recommended since you might drive right over a dropoff. What you see from the hiway is the tip of an iceberg.
The most obvious boundary of Southern Yosemite is the gorge of the San Joaquin River to the south and east. Though everyone allows a blip of land on the other side of the river because it happens to include Balloon Dome, the Half Dome of the area only bigger and a lot more mysterious. At least one Balloon Dome climb ropes up with the San Joaquin licking at your heels and goes some 3000 feet to the summit.
On the north the plateau rises to a ridge of peaks that form the southern boundary of a local park you may have heard of, Yosemite.
So here we have an area bigger than Tuolumne and with every bit as much climbable rock, crisscrossed by dirt roads and the odd bit of pavement, with one tiny store and a 20-year-old guidebook that is so far out of print you'll never find one.
I started to summarize the climbing history for you, until it began to feel eerily familiar and I realized I had written a bit of it out to go with a Climbing Magazine article on Shuteye. Since this new thread needs some photos, try these:
You'll recognize shots of the Ditch and Hetch Hetchy and Buttermilk, but the whole middle of this great slide show is all Shuteye Ridge, the New Wave heart of Southern Yosemite.
Here's the piece that includes highlights of the climbing history:
By Doug Robinson
Royal Robbins first turned me on to the Hinterlands. In the early 70s when he had taken to soloing in tennis shoes, Royal veered south from Yosemite. Between the park boundary and the deep gash of the San Joaquin River lay two hundred square miles, or probably more, of rolling forest sequestering the occasional granite dome. Like the South Platte country in Colorado, with dirt roads meandering through. Twenty-five domes cropped up in just the first few years. But Robbins wasn’t the first to get there. Not quite.
A few of the faces stretched up over a thousand feet, especially on Fuller Buttes and Balloon Dome. Fred Beckey – who else? – had started sniffing around the western Sierra’s 400-mile “dome belt” in 1970. How did that guy do it? Here he was, a thousand miles from his home range the Cascades, running down the western Sierra bagging the first ascents of whole regions. In 1970 he opened up the Needles, not a bad coup, then pioneered Charlotte Dome for good measure. That put the heat on for Sierra locals. The next spring – April in fact, long before snow usually melts enough to make the dirt roads passable – Galen Rowell grabbed the first major Hinterlands route, the Eagle Dihedral on East Fuller Butte. Galen was motivated, working hard to escape being forever branded as “a former second of Fred Beckey and Warren Harding.” But on the virgin face of Fuller Butte, Galen hit a blank spot right beneath an overhang that forced his aid climbing to get creative. He began throwing a nut on a rope up past the overhang. Over and over he tossed it up out of sight. When it stuck, he went up the cord and – chuckling at the bewilderment of the next party – called it A3+.
You can sense the grapevine at work, the buzz in Camp 4, in what happened next. Barely two months later Fred arrived in the Hinterlands, and in typical fashion climbed a natural line on the area’s biggest formation, remote and beautiful Balloon Dome across the river. He also copped a route on East Fuller Butte, the first route on Shuteye Ridge, and ran up the longest line on Wamello Dome, before moving on. He never looked back at the slew of quite lovely but more modest domes.
The rest of the Hinterlands was untouched until Royal came along, with his Rockcraft climbing school in tow, beginning in the summer of 1973. Every week a fresh gypsy caravan of cars would line up, with Royal’s classic VW bus leading us up a maze of logging roads. I’d bring up the rear in an even older bus, an itinerant guide in huarache sandals, shuffling a circuit between Bishop, Ventura and the Valley.
Sometimes Royal took us to familiar crags, sometimes to new ones. There seemed to be a lot of rock out there, but few clear vistas in the rolling forest. Royal would set his apprentices to work teaching, say, clean climbing, then slip off to scout the larger faces in those Tretorn tennis shoes. Next day, he would point us toward fine, natural lines on medium-sized granite domes, up to six pitches. Then camping rough on pine needles or in pocket meadows a night or two before moving on. Wine in campfire smoke. We definitely sampled the eastern side of Shuteye Ridge.
After two or three summers, Royal closed down Rockcraft. I returned to Bishop and the Palisades. And it wasn’t until I moved to the coast late in the eighties that I remembered the Hinterlands and went back for a look.
Wamello Dome was an early favorite, so I stopped there first. It sported great position, with a broad face six hundred feet high, looking south into the sun and commanding a sweeping view. It’s reminiscent of Manure Pile Buttress in Yosemite. Five times as wide, though, with inviting climbing everywhere you look. I recognized the South Buttress, which I had guided onsight for Royal. Now two bolts marked a direct start, and a guidebook listed a FA ten years after we had bagged it. Still, there was almost no one around. We lingered.
One day I was coming along the base of Wamello (called Fresno Dome on the map) when a familiar voice called down, “Do you know what we’re on?” It was Royal, leading a group of Boy Scouts. The Scouts saved his life as a teenager, he figures, by turning him on to climbing. So he keeps up a steady effort to return the favor. Or, more like pass it forward.
“I was hoping you could show me,” was all I could reply. First glance, I assumed Royal was on his own route, Mule Train. But then I’ve never been sure where it went, really. The guidebook is long out of print and, well, there is a lot of rock up there.
Sitting up on Wamello’s summit watching the sun sink toward almond orchards and cotton gins, our view to the south is dominated by Shuteye Ridge. Hints of its bold outcrops taunt us. Mike Arechiga comes back form there with his eyes spinning. Topos go up on Mike’s website. No one seems to notice. Years go by. Sean Jones brings a new wave from the Valley to Shuteye. In Tuolumne, Royal and I catch a sizzling glimpse of these photos on Shawn Reeder’s computer. Clearly, Shuteye Ridge is new wave Hinterlands. We make a date to go out there in October. But a big snowstorm intervenes. Now I hunker down on the coast with rain on the roof thinking once again, maybe next season…
Why publicize this secret backwater? Expose a private reserve of fine granite? I’ve watched other hidden domelands slam onto the cover of this magazine. Calaveras Dome comes to mind. Locals whimpered and cried doom. In the end outside climbers nosed around for six months, got poison oak and left. That was about it. Still, many favor hoarding. So, a bit nervously, I told Royal that I was going to write this. His response was swift and sure and open: “The more the merrier!”
I've heard a rumor that the guide is back in print? Anyone else hear this? Other than for directions on how to get to places, I've always thought the guide was kinda bunk. And seriously, what's with the sketches in that book?!
Hey Kev! Nice meeting you too! I'll keep my eyes peeled, Kev. Mine disappeared a number of years back.
Gene - the clothed cats always kinda freaked me out, Dunno why. Kinda like clowns; scary. Around these parts, Spencer is known more for inflating grades and grid bolting than he is for those pics or that guidebook though.
I for one welcome the information about Southern Yosemite.
Being somewhat lazy, and coming down from the north on one of my free days or weekends, I naturally gravitate toward the closer location for the shorter drive. The lack of a high clearance vehicle will keep me from certain places as well.
But OTOH, it sounds like a fun place for the spring or fall, depnding on the snowpack.
there's a little, great tasting, spring coming out of a pipe just barely (~500 yards) down the hill from Rock Creek on your way back to north fork home of La Cabana the best mexican restaurant i have ever been to including all of the joints down in Fres. the cabana is not open on mondays though. The spring is just as good as the one in moab on river road. the one near rock creek is on your right as you're headed south.
in SoYo a 4WD is a help but you don't need it. The tales of mega gnarly roads up there are probably just folks trying to keep the place to themselves. The following is a list of the formations that you can get to with a standard 2wd and an hour or less of walking. I should preface this list by saying though that your 2wd will get f'd up by overgrown vegetation etc. scratching the crap out of your paint job. There are as well some fairly burly 2wd sections on the way up to little shuteye pass area that can destroy your car if you don't drive it right. Best to pull over since driving up to the winter gate from the burly area will only save you like 5 minutes of walking:
Book of Revelations
Pretty much everything in the balls area...
Mammoth Pool Area:
Mammoth pool dome
squaw dome (this might be a bit over an hour depending on which way you go)
Both Eagle Beaks
55 7's which i though was originally called 55-10's...whatever
Everyone needs one of those, Dingus. Maybe a couple!
There used to be an online site that had a bunch of updated info on SoYo... Anyone know what happened to it? It would be nice to have again. I'm not holding my breath for a new guidebook anytime soon...
edit: Maybe some of you guys will know what this is... I used to guide a lot a lot of gumbies at The Balls, for Cal Outfitters when they were around. After a long day of belaying Boy and Girl Scouts on the slabs, we decided to head over to Fresno Dome to meet some other folks. We took this bumpy ass dirt road from Beashore Meadow Rd. over to the Fresno Dome area. I was riding bitch in a friend's truck and remember looking out over this canyon/gorge, to the left, which had a sizable rock face on the north wall, south facing. Anyone have any clues? Tried to find it on Google Earth about a year ago, but didn't really get anywhere...
Scuffy my brother have you ever known me to withhold a complaint?
I don't like COLD flour torts though... your tacos were grrrreat!
You boys ever go up Hwy 16 through the Capay Valley into Cache Creek canyon (and why WOULDN'T YOU???), stop at that tiny bar/restaurant in Guinda if its open. I forget the name but its the only open restaurant in town.
An old hispanic couple own it - and they and their children and gand kids run it. I stop in there when ever its open, often enough they all know me.
Spanish is the primary language there. Most of the Capay farmres speak good spanish. The TV is on hispanic stations, always. Capay Valley had a historic community of black farmers dating from the late 1800s or some such, and even their descendants speak spanish in there. Its COOL.
But the best part is granny's carnitsa. Ooooooh! They make their own salsa, their own chips and they make your food as you watch.
the place used to be a rowdy bar, before they bought it. It has an ancient stone fireplace and real wood paneling throughout. The bar foot rest (like out of an old cowboy movie) is tarnished and bent from years and years of rough boots. The walls have scratches and dents here and there, from the rowdy days. (I'm told parties used to spill out on the street, Hwy 16).
They all know me now and in fits and starts we catch up with one another about our latest. They know I'm one of the hikers, that I never go into the casino (though I buy their gas) and that I ALWAYS stop in for food and a beer or two when their open.
I don't think they do much business so my tip ratio there is always above 30%. That helps their memory too, haha.
Just the other day I was in there. One of the granddaughters comes up to me, a real latina hottie.
"I heard you like to hike up in the canyon?"
"OH yeah," says I, "for years."
She starts describing a recent hike she did. I knew EXACTLY where she was talking about. And just like with rock climbers, a sudden kinship as we describe various portions of the back country to one another.
Very cool. I love those people. The grandpa says to me, this same trip, two weekends ago:
"You don't live around here do you?" For a long time they thought I was a reclusive local. That's a high compliment, from such salt of the earth folk.
I love places like that. Salida. Selma. Coalinga. Red Bluff. Visalia. Oroville. Newman. San Joaquin. Lamont (oh lovely Lamont haha).
I have partaken of the mexican food in all these towns and most other central valley towns capable of supporting retail.
Bit's & pieces of new route info have been floating all over the internet for some time.
You may be recalling Thomas Hartmann's online supplement from Rock & Ice from the mid 90s. Clint somehow captured it before it was pulled. I only have print outs.
Certainly, as you know, a lot of new info is available for Shuteye Ridge on rc.com.
Never realized that the two guide books I found at Wilderness Exchange in Berkeley, SoYo by Spencer and Sequoia/Kings by Vernon, Hickey and Moser, would be two of the hardest guidebooks to find. And I only paid $15 for both.
Guess it's about time to put them to good use!
Thanks for the writing DR, very cool read.
edit: I wrote the wrong name for the author of the SoYo book. Thanks for pointing that out crazyhorse!
I think those books are hard to find for most people, for sure. But then I'll be somewhere and run into a stack of them. Same with the domelands guide right now. I know where about 50 of them are located. Original price.
Thanks Crazy Horse and thanks for starting a thread on SoYo - I'd forgotten just how many adventures and fine fine days with friends that have lasted a lifetime I've been blessed with.
Another one, if you'll indulge me....
I bought my Spencer guide in Fresno from that Blaine dude that worked at what was it called, Blackstone Mountaineering? Is that place still there?
I worked in Modesto at the time, for a small company. A co-worker asked me to take his juvinile deliquent son under my wing, figuring some climbing might put him on the path.
Ben. I took him bouldering at Knights Ferry and maybe top roping somewhere else, once.
So Angus and I are trying one Friday what to climb. Out of the blue I say,
"How about that Shuteye Ridge place? Let's check that out."
So quite randomly we decided Gray Eagle was the place to be. I'm thinking 1990 time frame, maybe 89. We drove all the way to the top of the ridge in Angus's old 4wd that would pop out of gear into neutral on steep down-clines. That slab of granite you ahev to drive up and over the overlap - that's f*#king scary!
So we get to the designated parking spot and the Spencer guide says to follow some old telephone lines down a gully to the base of the dome. This was our first encounter with Spencer approach beta. hehe.
The bare wire, laying on the ground, disappeared entirely, 10 feet from the truck. So much for the beta. Much bush whacking ensued.
Somewhere down in that gully I dropped my hard lexan water bottle and it shattered. We were in for another thirsty day.
I also was very recently married then. I lost my wedding ring at the base of Gray Eagle, a simple gold band. If you find it please send it to me as my wife has given me sh#t about it ever since. I did not replace it.
So we did a 6 pitch route that day, way in over our heads. The guide was useless.
Did I mention we had Ben in tow????
Welcome to the back country Ben.
That kid was one tough hombre! He never wimpered, he never gave up and he topped out with us, just like a climber should.
When we finally got back to the truck sunset was approaching. The sky was spooky red and MASSIVE clouds were covering the northern horizon. it looked alike a nuclear bomb had gone off over Yosemite. Turns out it had, in a sense.
Not knowing what was going on we drove on up to the lookout. An old man was in there and he was glad to see us. He invited us up and we shot the sh#t with him for a spell.
He worked 10 days on and 5 days off, up there. He drove a willies jeep, WWII vintage.
"No way I'd try to drive down that road at night." he counseled.
Oh, the clouds? The Foresta fire, that giant burn you see on the way in to the Valley from Crane Flat? That was the day that fire started, so I can place our ascent of Gray Eagle to a specific day.
Down we went. As we approached a paved road later on, well into the evening now, Ben had crawled into the bed of the pickup. He was tuckered out!
A ranger truck intercepted us and spot lighted the hell out of us - looking for poachers they claimed. Their truck sidled up to ours, talking through windows.
"whaddaya boys doing out here?" That sorta sh#t.
At this moment, Ben wakes up and his curly head of hair pokes up out of the bed of the truck. I swear to god the ranger FREAKED OUT!!!
"WHAT THE F*#K IS THAT, A DOG???!!!" he actually shouted. His eyes had that scared look, we climbers know that look all to well.
Angus replies deadpan (he was tired too),
"No, that's just Ben."
Hahahahahahhahahahahahaah! We still laugh about that all these years later.
ben moved to Idaho shortly thereafter and I never saw that tough kid again. I hope he's doing well - he sure acquited himself well on Shuteye Ridge that day.
HAHAHAH, at least you found Grey Eagle. Our first time we foolishly tried to approach from above and spent 6 hours bushwhacking and downclimbing not to find the dome. Tried to follow those wires too. Didn't work so well. The beers were earned that day.
Since then I have found the 30-40 minute approach from below. Much more pleasant...
Last time I saw him he showed me this stash of like a hundred bolts - he was going to put up some route on something volcanic he said. I take that back I saw him once after - he said they bailed low on the project, rock too loose.
Blaine is still fit as ever, Dingus. We went up to The Cookie last weekend and he was a machine. MiniTraxed Outer Limits, HARDD (sp?), Twilight Zone, Crack-A-GoGo, Red Zinger a couple of times, America's Cup a few times, and both pitches of Meat Grinder. Yep, a machine. Great guy.
He was probably headed out to Little Table Mountain with those bolts... I've only climbed there a couple of time; under the blackness of the night. Mountain biked from the park-and-ride to the huge boulder in the saddle on the very north end of the table, right on the 145, headed over to Friant. All stealth-like. Bummer that place is closed and I missed the time period when it was open. I can't imagine having good climbing 15 minutes from my door here. I know there have been attempts, even recent, I believe, to get it opened back up.
Kev wrote: Since then I have found the 30-40 minute approach from below. Much more pleasant...
Dave Daly and I put some serious time into that approach on the way to put in a new line we called 'intrepid voyage' ~600 ft. 5.10a not alot of fixed pro. it still needs some work on the section just before you drop into the creek. If i've given you a topo of any routes i've put in, no doubt you have read the admonition to climb with a pair of pruning shears to help keep the area's approaches not insanely bad. 30 minutes on the way up or down will really help keep the brush back y'all.
My first time out to that dome we ended up bush whacking for hours, to get to a seriously classic route and ended up walking out in the dark. What a great time!!!
Nef. wrote: Bummer that place is closed and I missed the time period when it was open. I can't imagine having good climbing 15 minutes from my door here.
There's a new area with a few estd. routes that i helped get going we're calling the Mesa. Locale unannouceable at this point due to access issues but it's a great winter destination ~20 minutes up old auberry road from fresno. Very similar rock to Jailhouse with beautiful wildflower strewn approaches. Also covered in those big black tarantulas, a bit of poison oak here and there but not as bad as the grotto/jailhouse/gold wall, deer grazing on top of the table in the evening, yes there are a few rattlers here and there, and theres a hawk floating around as well. I can put anyone in touch with local FAers if needed as i'm not in the area anymore. approach is about an hour from the car.
I have an idea of where you're talking about, horse. I went up there a number of years ago with Carlos Daniels and this wanker dude, Alex, and someone from the group that owns it. They were considering opening it for climbing. Looked to be some pretty decent rock up there Particularly in a caveish area, and a lot of bad rock too. I remember pulling down plenty of microwave-sized blocks while putting up a couple of routes... Not sure what ever happened with the whole thing, as I just went on a couple of days to check it out and do some climbing. The hike in was actually pretty pleasant.
well there's like 10 routes in right now. A few up a serious 40-50' roof called the Matrix Roof all 12's and 13's very similar to an area I climbed at in Utah (in the Uintas range.) and a few moderates.
Snake Crack on Squaw Dome is a moderate gem, IMHO. It's done in 3 long pitches, not the 5 or so as shown on the topo. Prepare to bushwhack if you don't find the right approach road from the south.
Speaking of Squaw, if anyone knows the author of the 5.10 slab pitch just to the right of Snake Crack, I'd love to know.
Last year I was heading to sqaw and discovered that the forest disservice had done stealth road closures. While a road closure plan it was up for public review they bulldozed up berms and dropped trees so you can't drive up to that gravel parking/camping area anymore.
it's been done, and it's really not as good as it looks from the road. I haven't actually done it, but when i went up there it looked very uninteresting. It's more like a tube, there's not much trad gear up there because the 'crack' is bolted.
Hey fellas, have any of you done the South Pillar on Fresno Dome? I've had a woody for that route for a long time but wasn't sure of how sustained or runout it is for 5.8. Ive heard the belays are just slung chickenheads. I'm not super bold but would love to do this route. Is it really about 5-6 pitches? We're thinking of gittin in there early on motorcycles as soon as some of the snow melts, which should be soon sadly.
Yes, Micronut -- you gotta do the South Pillar! It is SO good.
I have done it 8-10 times, mostly guiding. It's more like 7 pitches thanks to terrain and rope drag. Longest route on the Dome, and a real favorite. I first climbed it while guiding for Rockcraft, a decade before the "FA" according to Spencer.
The 5.8 is right off the ground. Toe of the buttress, two bolts protect a few moves of delicate face (we initially avoided this little headwall by a minor variation to the right, but I recommend the "direct"), then one more bolt before you romp up onto cracks and chickenheads for several pitches that rarely get above 5.5.
Yes, there are chickenhead belays, but what chickenheads! We're talking a foot across with big chicken lips to hold your tieoff. You could anchor to two or three of them within arms reach some places.
After several pitches -- maybe 4 -- you come out onto the top of a tower on the buttress. Nice lunch spot. Above is a left-facing corner with slab climbing leaving it to the left. Good climbing but sparce pro. Diagonal right instead, up a steeper wall. The chickenheads have downsized here to beautiful plates. The next pitch goes up a short vertical spot -- feels a little like a roof -- then it slabs off toward the summit.
Just when you're ready to unrope there is one more spot to belay downclimbing into a notch. Bolt to protect the second here.
Approaching squaw Dome on a hot summer morning, the bushwack through manzanita has us looking like we had been raked by an evil clawed mountain badger. Sweat dripped down my face. Lars Johansen knew the way. LOL!
I led the first pitch and upon setting up the belay, I spotted the nice open climbers trail leading to the base of the climb. It is farther up the road than you expect and it avoids the manzanita garden.
Werner busted us all, suggested we rename this thread Salsa!
But I detect a strong theme of manzanita.
Munge threw down a clear gauntlet, Southern Yosemite's own ethical conundrum of Clean Approaching:
Does lopping ever feel like chipping to anyone?
And what does this lot do? Sweep it under the table. Twenty posts back he said it, a veritable voice crying in the wilderness. And nary a word (though I have learned a lot about the food along the Sonora Pass corridor...)
Well I'm here to tell you that I've never lopped. That's right, not once.
Oh, I've clipped the lopping of others. But hey...it was there.
I have even faced down Extreme Manzanita(tm) in shorts. I have a secret technique. It's called Sloth. I have noticed that the secret to Extreme Manzanita(tm) is to go slow. Pick my way through the thicket.
Some may call this mincing. But they cannot impugn my manhood. I may not be fast. I may not even be half-fast. But I rarely draw blood.
I am a follower of the Kauk way. In the venerable text, Ron of the headband admonished us to "get inside the move." This text has been variously interpreted by different sects of the brotherhood of the manzanita, I am well aware. Some even crawl. But I say unto them, "Stand up brothers! Were you not born into the sunlight of uprightness?"
There are those who say they have seen me, standing on a rock surrounded by a sea of manzanita and not moving. Stroking my beard and staring, as if completely flummoxed by the red-barked foe. Clearly they fail to see that in those moments I have transcended even getting inside the move, and have reached the ultimate state of fully "contemplating the move(tm)."
I pity those whose vision is so limited they think me stymied, when actually I have entered into the Zen of the Thicket.
Yours in the Eternal Brotherhood of Scratched Thighs.
Speaking of Squaw, if anyone knows the author of the 5.10 slab pitch just to the right of Snake Crack, I'd love to know.
i've been told by a few people that it was put in back in the day by mark maciaczek."
Medusa was put up on lead by Pat Howes, Scott Furusho and Bob Nungester a couple of decades ago. We bailed on putting in the second pitch as things were getting a bit toasty. An ice cold beer while wallowing in Granite Creek sounded like more fun. We were fortunate that 5/16" Rawls were available then, sorry about massacring the first bolt. Prior to that with Jim Wellman we added Voyeur, named for the window at the top located R of West Face.
for all interested, i found a weather station above north fork a month or two ago when i was up there checking out the extent of the snow. I'm not sure how well it's maintained and therefore the data might not be accurate, but here it is anyways
Sounds like its on. I'll try and ping some folks later tonight or this weekend since I prolly won't be climbing.
now, about this lopping thing. Don't get me wrong, I've made some trails. And I think trails can really be a good way to minimize plant destruction. It's just that I worry about the perception of heavy handed tactics. I mean, how do hikers create new trails officially? Just because they are part of 'trails' crew doesn't necessarily mean they should get to use explosives to make trails.
re; "Why not walk around? Redirect the trail? etc etc"
Upper Bear Creek Trail is built on the side of typical garbage San Gabriel Mountains decomposed granite. This particular section of trail was been impassable for a number of years due to slides and instability of the hillside. No way around, nuthin to redirect
I believe they needed to blast to both dig a footing into the mountain as well as cut loose the crap above it (to prevent add'l slides).
Not really applicable to trimming bushes or whatever else people might do in So Yo.
Yes, thanks indeed for chiming in Wack!
Would you be able to peg the exact dates or years of your ascents? Future guide or no, some of us are at least trying to compile some accurate historical record of climbing in the area.
Excellent thoughts and writing on the sensitive manzanita chopping ethical debate. I was going to chime in earlier on Munge's subtle query, but didn't have the prerequisite strong opinion on salsa consistency.
Chopping does rub me the wrong way, as my fine climbing comrades know too well. They even threaten to bring trusty Cyndi Lopper to crags with an hour long approach. After all, who in their right mind will ever pass this way again? Then they pull out the old "if you build it, they will come" argument.
I wear my cuts and scrapes for weeks afterwards like a badge of honor - an ever present cherished reminder of my rare adventures into the obscure. I gloat when my kids wince at the site of my legs after a fine day in the brush. I mourn the loss of the peeling scabs.
Re: loping... I have always been a little uneasy with it myself. I am definitely not a fan walking through the middle of a thicket and cutting my way through. And a lot of the time, it is possible to find a longer, more circuitous way that does not involve so much destruction. Some times it can not be avoided. One of those damned if you do, damned if you don't kinda things.
"I hear you dude. I don't worry about it myself. What few I've made no one is going to find without explicit directions...Oh well. Tiz better to seek forgiveness than it is permission.
I am not trying to rag on you Dingus but how can you say no one will find your trails? There has to be an end point of your trail, some place you thought worthy of cutting your way to, you don't think someone else will see the same thing? Maybe not, just thinking out loud here...
Oh and I think the saying is, "It is easier to seek forgiveness than permission." =)
LOST TRAIL: Grand Imperial Highway. I climbed at Tollhouse Rock last weekend and could not find the trail cut through the brush that goes from the bottom of the decent gully to the Tollhouse Traverse area. I traversed left and right three times slong the bottom of the rock utterin' WTF under my breath and finally went further North and used an alternate path. This is a personal mystery to me right now because I am the one who cut the trail. I used this trail only a few weeks ago so it is not a case of being overgrown. I think that I missed the entry to it because I was not looking for it soon enough, or a mass of heavy brush had fallen recently obscuring the path right at the beginning.
Next trip I will be taking some (Gasp!)surveyor's tape to mark the trail.
Sorry Doug - somehow this morning was right for messing with photos. Don't know when that will happen again. You know, it's pretty easy. I spent $60 on Photoshop Elements and have been having a lot of fun.
went out to do a route on this rock this fall supposing it to be an FA. Recently acquired ancient route descriptions cast some doubt on this, but i did find an anchor on the huge ledge 2/3 of the way up. Brand new/stainless steel 3/8. Anyone know who put this in? Where the route goes?
Doug, thats Matt S on a new route on Chiquito Dome. I think it's called the Big Banana 11a. 400' in two long pitches. One of the coolest faces I have ever climbed plus all the holds are natural I think.
dito. Big Banana is one of the best 5.11 face routes I've ever done. Steep, big gaps between holds with a little help from some thin feet. Great route. I don't think there's any doubt that all the holds are natural...Tork and his lady got the 2nd ascent of the route, I got the third, but i still have to do the finish pitch so i don't know if that really counts. I was just glad to get the first pitch without falling :)
I usually have lots of ASCA bolts and hangers, and would be psyched to get back there and replace the bolts on Sahib.
Joel and I replaced the bolts on Elegant Inclinations last June, but didn't have time to fix both routes in the same weekend. http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.html?topic_id=621065
has anyone done it? I remember walking up there probably 8 years ago with my minty Spencer guide and the route was so run out that i really couldn't tell where it was supposed to go. Even if i could link the sequence of holds and bolts together, i don't think i would have ever climbed it, even if the bolts were replaced.
I remember the bottom 40 ft of rope would have been spent clipping one bolt like 15 feet off the ground and traversing diagonally up and right through a very ballsy steep section to another bolt way over while climbing 5.9-5.10 slab and risking a definate decking fall on said terrain. Can anyone correct me on this? False impression from the ground?
The bolts on p.1 of Sahib were replaced by Brandon Thau and maybe Greg Vernon (correct me if I'm wrong), a handful of years ago. They didn't finish the rest. Greg also relayed that someone put in a direct start to p.1 of Sahib, just to the right. It appeared to me to be a steeper line and equally bold/scary (if I don't have the lines confused). I think Thomas Hartmann mentioned it also, so it's over 10 years old. Don't know if newer routes potentially obscure that pitch as well, as I haven't been back since all the activity.
Grahm and Brandon, I suppose, would best be able to identify the original line of Sahib. Don't know if any bolts on the higher pitches were utilized/replaced for the newer routes. If anyone else on this forum has climbed Sahib, feel free to chime in.
If you are reading, Tom (LongAgo), it would be cool if you had a much higher resolution version/scan of the one photo of the route posted on your site. Any other photos would be helpful as well.
Well done Clint! Tom had said the Spencer topo was accurate to what he supplied and that the climber in that picture is either near or at the top of p.1 or the start of p.2. I reckon the climb continues up that rightward trending weakness, but what do I know? Don't have the guidebook in front of me, but I recall p.1 comes in from the left, so the new routes may cross p.1, but maybe not further up. Unless there is a route right of Big Banana. Tork?
Here's the Sahib topo from the Spencer guidebook
(I edited out the Elegant Inclinations topo, which was shown a little too close on the right):
The topo shows a shaded bulge which p1 diagonals underneath. I'm not sure, but I think the same bulge is visible on both photos,
so that agrees with the climber in the AAJ photo being near the end of p1.
It should be easy enough to locate those belay bolts.
I think the shaded area is evident in this photo of yours.
Before the new routes went in, I recall looking with binoculars and seeing a bolt with weathered tat just below this shaded/steeper area (the darkest spot in the lower middle), and I think a bolt further down below, but still in the knobs.
I can't remember if it was Virgil, the Miwok Indian who could still trace his tribes' old trade trail for many miles east of North Fork, or the local young (at the time) couple "Dave and Wanda"? whose dog was bitten by the rattlesnake or somebody else on the Minarets Work Station Crew, but somebody gave me the following info. the summer I worked up that way.
They said most of the formations in the area used to have other names, but they were later cleaned up. You can see why.
Squaw Domes was "Squaw xxxs"
Fuller Buttes was "Fuller's xxxx".
Balloon Dome was "Preacher's xxxxx".
the Balls was "Jackass Balls."
I don't know about Jackass Rock
None of this is too far from what is still called Hell's Half Acre.
That was long enough for the colorful language to be up. you can fill in the blanks now.
1. 13a - The Sickness - 35m - Bolts and Rings - Climb through the far right side of the roof and up the thin face. Louie almost passed from heat exhaustion trying to get the fa and hence came a great name for a thin masterful climb. FA Louie Anderson, 07
2. Open Project - 13+ abandoned anchor at 35 meters.
3. Project - Grahm Doe 12d - Wingo - 35m - Climb up the slab which leads to the middle rib on the steep face above. This one progressively gets harder the higher you climb.
4. 10b - Sahib - 120 meters - An old classic line with a traversing first pitch. New routes that go straight up the wall have been added but the bolts for Sahib are still in their original place. P1 10b 30m Start on Wingo and then traverse across the wall clipping bolts to an anchor just above the ramp. This pitch has had the original bolts replaced but higher pitches have not. P2 10b Follow three widely spaced bolts to an anchor. P3 5.9 find one bolt and continue to another anchor. P4 5.8 One more bolt to the top and a gear anchor. FA Tom Higgins, Chris Vandiver, July, 83
5. 11C - Constellation - 120m - A fun 400 foot route that climbs on knobs, knobs, knobs. There are just enough knobs to make it interesting climbing without being too hard. For added convenience there are anchors every 30 meters so you can bail with one rope or run pitches together for 60 meter pitches. P1 60 meters 23 bolts plus Chain Anchor, Chain Midway Rap Station. P2 50 meters 16 bolts Plus Chain Anchor, Chain Midway Rap Station. If you want to summit the climb an optional 2 bolt 30 foot 5.4 slab to Rings hanging on a block can be reached. Walk off left from here. A 60m rope will reach all the way from the lower anchor to the block. FA Brent Webster, 07
6. 11C - The Big Banana - 120m - P1 11b - 60 meters 18 bolts plus Ring Anchor. P2 11c - 60 meters 15 bolts, end on the shared ring anchor hanging on a block at the top of Constellation. Another mega classic climb. The Yang to Constellation’s Ying. Rather than incut knobs the whole way there a loads of slopey knobs to be savored a plenty. FA Grahm Doe, 07
7. Open Project - A fine looking line probably 5.10 or 5.11.
8. 10d - Optional runout climbing past bolts to join Sahib.
No, I didn't finish it. I went back all geared up then realized there were no drill bits in my bolt kit, IDIOT! Can't wait for the spring thaw to get back on it.
Are you sure about the placement of the anchor for Sahib on your picture? I think the route crosses back over BB and Constellation. I know I have seen old bolts left of Consellation. I think it goes roughly like this picture, that would match the topo from the Spencer guide.
it seems that where the route goes is up for debate. it would be kinda cool though as has been suggested to paint hangers, something like that to link the old sahib sections together, and now that there's new routes with modern bolts in the area, perhaps we can go and climb the route with more than 1 or 2 bolts in a pitch.
The area is so knobby that it would also be fun to just climb wherever you want and link multiple sections of multiple routes in a single pitch. Like a girdle route...every bolt has to be on a different route!!! then weave back in the opposite direction for the next pitch.
I'm thinking that since there's a number of us here that spend time in the area, that we're looking at this as kind of like an open forum. The virtual campfire for SoYo issues, thoughts, stories, etc..
" it would be kinda cool though as has been suggested to paint hangers,"
I'd be against painting hangers on routes to differ from other routes. It's bringing the gym to the outside and we might as well paint the holds too, at that point. It's really removing any adventure on the routes and bringing the route down to a lower level. People should be able to read a topo and follow it. Routefinding is part of the game. If the route is runout, you should be prepared for this, as well as be prepared to take the consequences if you fall. If people can't wrap their head and skills around this, they should stay off the route and wait until they can. Simple.
Unless, of course, you mean paint the bolts a color matching the color of the rock to help them blend in... :)
I know SoYo and a lot of the rock in it is seldom visited, and mostly by the same people and that leads to a kind of "my crag" mentality and the loosening of ethics for some people. Maybe the thinking that no one will notice or it doesn't matter. I don't agree with that mindset and it does matter. It matters to me, as well as other climbers who frequent the area. There's already some chipping. Let's leave it at that.
If I'm misunderstanding the quote, then I digress.
The painting of the hangers is an idea I suggested offline to several folks, simply because with so many modern lines now crossing and in the vicinity of Sahib, I see no way that even a seasoned climber can easily discern the original line, unless a topo clearly shows every bolt on every route, and which ones were the original ones for Sahib. Even without the new routes, it was hard enough to find the line. Tom had said before "Kamps told me once he and Herb Laeger couldn't find the starting bolts. I think there was one within the first 15-20 feet." I suppose a good photo topo would aid in this significantly. You are completely right that routefinding is part of the game, but now with a plethora of bolts on that section of wall, the game is significantly more perplexing. I know it sounds like a gym, but are there any other suggestions? Leave a bit of tat on the original bolts, since it was often there anyway?
Yes, I do remember that bit of tat, as well as some on a bolt higher and further left, under the steep section, which I presumed to be the second bolt on Sahib.
If I can add on to Nate's comment, by way of example, Grahm's quick topo and description where he says for the description of Sahib to "Start on Wingo" suggests it's not easy to find the original line even with the locals all right here at the campfire. With Sahib being (one of) the original line(s), it is a bit confusing to me and I've been climbing since I was 11.
I imagine Grahm will make it very clear in his final guide and show where Sahib goes and that Wingo project would be an extension or variant off of Sahib.
With that said, are the replacement hangers on the first pitch of Sahib of a different type or manufacturer than the bolts on the nearby lines? That seems a good way to go without the circus feel of paint. That or camouflage paint to match the rock in a different way, but that sometimes invites problems on runout lines anyways.
I think the fixe tan bolts would match the rock yet not be totally impossible to see. If I remember right, most the bolts on the other routes are silver.
The original route isn't that hard to find. I don't understand how anyone would have had trouble finding it before all the additions. It is easy to find the start now, it's the only route that has a 1/4" bolt at the start, unless the first bolt was chopped. You pass right by other old 1/4"ers when you climb the other lines.
I'm really hoping I don't sound like a dick or anything like that. Not trying to and I know that email and the Internet aren't good at conveying emotion/meaning behind typed words. I'm just trying to open a dialogue. Sounds like you guys get that though. Thanks for understanding.
I haven't been on this wall so, of course, I really don't know what I'm talking about and pics only show so much. I'd be down for something like Tork and Munge are talking about; using some of the different, rock colored, anchors from fixe. My concern was just heading to the crag and seeing red and neon green anchors and some of the future issues it might cause.
Has Sahib seen a second ascent besides BT and GV rebolting the first pitch? When i went out there before all of the modern routes in the area, it was very foggy to me besides the one old rusty 1/4"er near the ground.
if any type of rebolting activity were to take place, obviously replacing the 1/4"ers will be a start, but i doubt with all the route activity on the first pitch that the original bolt holes are still around. Anyone know if the lower bolts were chopped as asked earlier? GV should fully be invited along in any rebolting trip. just a thought...
Sure, let's get together in the spring to replace the bolts on Sahib!
(Like on Space Babble, it should not take very long - there are not very many of them! :-) )
We could use black hangers or a different brand ("ASCA"!)to help distinguish between the routes - like SMC vs. Leeper back in the day.
I agree with Randy - don't want green, pink, etc.! (I don't think Matt meant that, either). I remember seeing those at City of Rocks back in 1990 or so.
Nice - that does match up with Spencer's topo much better.
I think the tat sling Nate mentioned was from some years ago, before the bolts were replaced on p1.
Probably near where (4) crosses (5) in Grahm's revised photo above, before the first big runout.
Cool stuff, Tork. I've never been up to Wo Dome. I know Richard Jensen and Mark Smith (yes, those guys) who put up a number of routes there and they've been telling me I need to get up there for a while now.
Thanks, Gene! :)
edit: Anyone who would like to impart their knowledge of the fine art of (re)bolting would get any help from me they'd like.
edit: Anyone who would like to impart their knowledge of the fine art of (re)bolting would get any help from me they'd like
come to any SSCA event and you will have probably 5 dudes who would love to teach. Since i've been involved with the club, we've easily replaced 500 bolts with much help and assistance both in labor and supplies from Greg (ASCA).
Tork - That sucks! I hiked all the way to Electric with gear ropes etc to finish a route and same thing... No drill bits. Dooh! Thats the worst feeling.
Sahib definitely has an anchor a ways right of Banana. Maybe not quite as far as pictured but its over there.
I did notice an old quarter incher left of Constellation somewhere. I thought this was just an odd ball bolt you find hanging on walls sometimes from other people checking it out. Maybe Sahib weaves way back left and finishes above Wingo. If that's the case then the route traverses right 60 feet on the first pitch and then back left 60 feet maybe more before finishing. They mentioned a small crack toward the top. This should help finding it. I actually originally thought Sahib went up "8" past the poot sling to the anchor and the real Sahib was a contrived variation start because it had newer bolts!
I also thought Sahib went up the trough to the right on the second pitch because that looked like the path of least resistance. And they talked about climbing through a "depression" However I could see how they could trend out left as the knobs are gigantic even though they run diagonally across the wall. Had no idea we were even crossing Sahib. I thought the whole thing was to the right when we were putting up our lines.
The bolts on Sahib's first pitch stand out against the all stainless steel bolts on the new routes. Also it follows the easiest line of knobs across the wall. It would be hard to get lost. Just stay on the biggest knobs. Probably same thing for the other pitches.
Nobody chopped any bolts so whatever was there before should still be.
I don't plan on adding more pitches to Wingo. Not really interested in climbing a 12d and then finishing up a 5.9.
Also Sahib probably starts further left of Wingo where the features are bigger and the climbing is easier. Because of all the huge traversing this route is a bit of a mystery for now.
Looking forward to figuring this out in the spring!
Thanks for the awesome thread, everyone! beautiful pictures.
I've posted this one before,
I was really disappointed when I got up there last time. Someone recently drilled a bolt ladder on the 2nd (or 3rd) pitch of the Beckey Route/Blue Moon. I was shocked because it has been climbed so many times without those bolts.
Bummer! Anyone know the story?
"I almost got electrified getting this pic above Gray "
Ummm... don't do that, Jeff. It is HIGHLY not recommended. Don't ask how I know. :(
Also, I've found that Richard and Mark's aid routes are pretty bold and stout too. Really nice guys.
matt - yeah, I should probably spend some more time with the SSCA folks. It's been a while. Picked up a bulldog from Eppie last year and have been anxious to get out and learn the tricks. Was thinking about replacing some bolts in Courtright this year with my partner Blaine.
Damn! There's some fine looking stuff in here! Love the last batch of pics, Graham.
Hey Mungie, Yeah I did take that photo. The guy on the right was a visiting climber from France. I think his name is Benoit.
Never saw him again after that trip.
You guys climbed Tootsie and Matt and I did Jigsaw.
I helped him on the rebolting of that route.
It was a project that was done at that event.
Got to climb the 2nd pitch on the old 1/4" bolts w/ leeper hangers, Crazy Horse followed the pitch after rebolting with new stainless.
If I'm not mistaken the 2pitch had 3 bolts. Old school 5.8 and run.
I think the way to anchor there is to clip that bolt and the next one as well, then climb back down to the first one. I don't remember seeing gear there. Maybe on the first ascent they led to the second bolt after the traverse and then realized there was too much rope drag, so they used both to anchor.
I was just trying to reproduce Spencer's topo, which I believe is close to Higgins' original topo. When you rappel the route, you go straight from (4) to (2) (or even (1) ). We did at a bolt at (5), using my own bolt and hanger.
I've put up several routes on the formation. I've forgotten the names of many of them. Almost all of them were put up from the ground up rope solo (no hooking) after guiding days at SYMG, so wherever the bolts are, were from stances looking at serious falls myself...On the steep tier (the 3rd) above the slabby part (the 2nd), there is a route or two that are Mark Spencer FA's that have been rebolted, and all the rest were put in by Jerry A as far as i know. BTW he is a tall dude!!!
I remember free soloing on the formation when a huge tree between me and the road spontaneously fell over!!! It was so loud i thought the world was coming to an end and nobody that i know of besides me heard it. i was pretty sketched!
Been out of the office breaking the govt's "33 million dollar a copy Sierra noise maker". ;) Good stuff and sweet pixs too. As Nate mentioned, SoYo is deeply embedded in my soul. What a great place it is. "Cyndi" agrees too, eh Nate? BTW, slashed up pale, hairy legs are unbecoming there in the Bay area these days.
Props to 'King Tiki-Ger'....long live the king!
Tiki-Ger on some fine SoYo slab
Grahm on 'Twilight' (.12d), Lost Eagle. This route is on the buttress behind Ger in the previous photo.
What was that route you and I did on Gray Eagle that was right of Lightning Bolt (I believe you see the start on the left part of the photo)...possibly a Sean Jones route? .10c?? Stellar good stuff....runout slab above as I remember....or did I skip a few along the way? ;)
Hey Munge.....Brutus and The Good Nurse Ratchet gave Ger, Nate and myself the invite to Hoffman this go around. Sounds like supreme fun!!
The landing on Hanging 30 is "good" in places. The crux is going out the middle of the roof down and right of the pic. A blind throw to the lip while your body is horizontal 20 feet above some bushes. Then the easier moves of the finish move out left over the death pyramid. Pretty easy to set up a top rope for working it.
Good eyes that is indeed "Probably Bomber". Did I hear correct that you got the second on "The Spice Is Right". Just to the right?
Don't think any of us has tackled 'The Spice Is Right'. After hearing Grahm grunt a bit thru the stretched out crux (I think it was a slung marginal chickenhead 20-25' below), I would more than likely require some "liquid courage" prior to the attempt. As I recall, a fall at that point might end up as a face plant on the deck below! =[
I'll bring my chopping board and some homegrown 'maters when we all rendezvous in the heat of the summer to share a pulldown and a brew in celebration of these Hinterlands that I can't quite bring myself to call SoYo.
This has been a GREAT ride here. I've learned so much and become so inspired and my drool list is reaching bout to my knees by now. I had no idea so many are so active, and the stone you're posting is nothing short of stellar. Now I'm so ready to met you guys and share a campfire...with salsa.
Y'know, what's a little PhotoChossing between friends? That we can handle. I mean, we're all quite sure the origins of the Ancient Art of the Sandbag are lost before recorded history.
No, it's some of the more subtle and diabolical effects I'm watching out for. Specially with you lot. I mean, when we have displayed a mouthwatering wall all advertised as totally trad, and then they start laying it on even thicker by naming climbs the likes of "Prolly Bomber," -- it's then that I start looking for the sly photo-insertion of a wee slot for that "#5 Met TCU" that gets oh-so-casually slid into the conversation.
The aforementioned "mouthwatering wall" will no longer be advertised.
The budget has officially run dry. Must be the economy. No wonder the first route there was named "Seek and Ye Shall Find".
My, my, but don't that pic of Red Tail by Munge, High Eagle by Clint, and Wanderlust by Tork look awful tasty!! Plates and plates a plenty! A 7-course feast to be exact! (Salsa included). Surely THOSE pics haven't been photochossed...
Ever heard of 'entrees', sir? Drool till your hearts content.....but to get to them tasty morsels, you gotta hunt for 'em! ;) As for said "Shuteye Salsafest"......I'll bring the limes. Cinco De Mayo weekend (snow cleared off of Beasore dictating)?
Munge.....heard from Brutus in the past couple of weeks? Tried to reach him and Em. No joy.
Dingus.....bring it! Drag Brutus and Em, the Five Amigos (minerals, Nate, Tiki-Ger, I-Doc and me), DR, Gene, Crazy Horse, and Grahm....its on!
We could elaborate further..... lopping comes at the same price as bushwhacking the same "beeline" to a crag and eventually wearing in a trail. Pretty much the same level of impact.....either today or years later. Now, the use of a chain saw to cut back anything bigger than 2"....that's going a bit far. Besides, it's not like concrete is being laid out with trail side signs. Cutting back some foliage doesn't makes the same level of impact as say.......chipping?? Plants grow back....rock doesn't.
Hey as much as I like the Redneck Stove-thingy, I don't think it belongs out there. I was real bummed when I saw all the debris and the murky pools after the cleaning of the tub.
There are fish in there man! German Browns and they are naturals.
Fishermen have been there before us ya'll. Lets keep it pristine.
Perhaps that is why the stove was thrown out of Frustration Creek?
Think of the Fish, Man!! (Sounds like the Lorax)
Wow! Didn't realize you guys were so pissed off about this. I apologize if the initial cleaning out of the little pool negatively effected your experience out there. I am sure with all the storms we have had mother nature has scoured the whole area back to the way it was. The Snorkle Stove is never left out there.
It was not thrown out of Frustration Creek for any other reason than some vandals found it and thought it would be fun to throw it off a cliff. They did some other juvenile crap too but its not worth discussing here.
If the land on which you made "improvements" was included in areas open for homesteading or perhaps gold mining you are required to file a claim and further "prove it up" according to Federal requirements. This has been the rule for much longer than 100 years I believe.
Now I have another suggestion that might well permit you to do fifteen first ascents a day instead of just five, and you could, perhaps, fully use up all the possible routes in your area in just a couple of months. Just think. Fully used up in just a month or two! One of your photos shows two metal attachments to the rock right next to a natural feature that would have allowed you to scoot up it in a minute rather than having to go to the time and expense of firing up an electric drill for what? Twenty minutes? Think of how much more you could get done.
These times are so strange it is actually possible you were entirely unaware of all this prior art. If this is the case just know we understand and we hope you will soon discover the really important things available to us all in these wild areas.
Hey Randy.....would love to see you up there this year. Gonna try to drag Solem and crew up there as well. Hoping to put together 'Salsafest', with the help of a few 559ers and maybe a few gringos. See the 'Salsafest 2009' thread.
i'm really enjoying this thread and hope that we can make the Salsafest happen. 1. i'd like to say that i'm actually in favor of the kick ass stove. If i'm up when grahm breaks it out i'm freakin jumping in!! Plus you could use a bilge pump and take the water out of the pool and put it in the bushes so that anything that came off the stove would be in the soil, probably nothing more than a bit of dust and whatever is on the outside of an iron stove (iron???). 2. The SSCA calendar of events has been announced. Notice there are two dates with SoYo as the venue. Might I reccomend the salsafest occur on the same days as the balls event when i am likely to be in the area...August 8-9 lets make it happen!!!!
Please mark your calendars for the following SSCA events:
March 21-22 Alabama Hills Eric McGee/Mickey Dunagan
May 23-25 Bart Dome Eric McGee
June 20-21 Needles Event Entire Board
July 18-19 Shut Eye Ridge/Lost Eagle Jerry Jessurn
Aug 8-9 The Balls Matt Schutz
Sept 12-13 Shaver Lake Area Eric McGee
Oct 3-4 Tollhouse Face Off Eric McGee
Nov 7-8 End of season planning meeting Location TBA Jim Schrodt
If you have suggestions for service projects or comments please let me know.
Hey Matt, Good to hear your out there! Might make one of those SSCA events this year. Shuteye sounds like the one. When we did the Tollhouse cleanup that one year we made friends with the Fresno Four wheelers, who took all those bags of trash we collected. They offered to help shuttle folks up the road to shuteye there....ever hear from them??
In Feb 13 post (have not been looking at Supertopo in a while), Clint tries to indicate where Sahib goes in the picture of various routes on Chiquito Dome, and seems to agree with the big blue dots in the photo, as opposed to the route going way right. I think the blue dots are about right too, but it's very hard to tell from the straight up photo.
Here's a picture which might help. It's from my website, taken from taken from the AAJ '84 by permission:
It's not a great pic, but I seem to recall the picture was taken while I was drilling at or near the belay station at the end of the first pitch. That place is atop a faint "buttress" not particularly visible in the supertopo pic. But notice I am right of what looks like a kind of long eyebrow of rock. If one looks at the blue dot photo (with lots of other routes dotted too), one sees what looks like the very same eyebrow of rock, so I'm pretty sure the route goes back above that eyebrow as per the big blue dots.
Of course, the line of old bolts will tell the tale. And of course, I'm fine with them being replaced. Happy trails finding the old line!
I think you got it, especially comparing the "indenture" above my head in the old photo to that in the new. As I said, I think the second pitch of Sahib goes up and left from where I was pictured at the end of the first pitch, so that's somewhere in the vicinity of the climber you show. Again, of course, old bolts will tell the story. Thanks!
In climbing (rock only) the ethics, style and peer respect has always rotated around the age old argument of gate in or out. As for me i'm a gate out lifer.
Thank you GRAHM DOE for letting me get the 2nd on "Limp-Wristed Dike Fistin 5.10a". I had loads of fun on it and look foward to climbing it again. I hope the next time I climb it, the crack does not have to appear as if has just been aided.
We'd rather be know as gate-inners than say......gate puller outers! HA! Poor Tim.
What's up Cam? Would you please quit work and show up from time to time. Damn you man! Would love to see you in July at the LE gig. Come check out the fun stuff. BTW, Roger and I finally tried out 'Howdy Douty Time' (sp?). You guys are royal sandbaggers!! Exfoliation hell I say! For some reason, the Peter Gabriel song, "Digging In The Dirt" comes to mind. ;)
I think you have Rob. Ger has it posted on SP as one of his profile shots. The root Ger is on is 5.9R. First bolt is 20' up then runs out on little nubbins for 35' before reaching the next bolt. 4 bolts (with a few knobs near the top to sling) in 130'. Stuff that puts hair, instead of peach fuzz, on your bolsa!
Camahoo - Great job on the 2nd of "Limp-Wristed Dike Fistin 5.10a". Thanks for helping to come up with such a great name! One of things I love about putting up new routes is sharing them with others. It was great to see you fighten for the send. Heres a pic I snapped of you on it.
Great photos from everyone so far! I have been to all the areas shown. Except Mooch's shot of the Taffy Wall. Which I suspect is out in Exile. Don't worry I won't spill the beans on that spot. Nothing wrong with the guys who find a new crag keeping it to themselves for a while to pick their cherry lines.
In the spirit of having a little fun here's a few shots of walls seen only by a few Shuteye explorers. I know of heaps more but 2 out of the 3 walls pictured below still have NO routes yet. With out disclosing their exact location has anyone out there seen all 3 of these gems? Do you know which one has routes on it? If you wish to play you can be vagely general in the area of your answer. For example "High Eagle Area" Crazy Horse is the only one I can think of that may have seen all three. So hold out a little while Crazy to see if anyone else has earned their bush whacking metal of honor.
Mellow??? By bolt #4, Roger was peeling dirty micro flakes and blowing off the route three seperate times! Rog grew up sending 5.10 Tollhouse slab route, my friend. The opening move (protected by a bolt) was no harder than 5.8, at best. The upper section (which skirted to the left of 'Mineral Magic' about 30') got tougher, exfoliating and dirtier!!
Randy, are you thinking about 'Think Nothing Of It' (.10b)? Put up by Cam, Lenni and Barry in '03? The first 25' of that route are tough while the remaining pitches are fairly moderate.
Speaking of Tollhouse....we were out there Saturday morning early (on the first pitch at 4:30 am.......had to be back before family breakfast) and brought my new little HD camcorder. Have a peek all yall So Yo Punks. This is how we do 5.7 in style.
Grahm, your pix cropped too small to be any useful for guessing ;)
I have not seen #1 but the other two (or at least one of them) could be parts of the dome that you find going west/downhill from the observation tower (passing by a fun short 30 feet or so overhanging on all sides tower/boulder).
It's a smaller dome may be 150 feet or so. There was just one bolt that I saw on it leading nowhere (may be a trad route)
Hey I'd prolly be interested in that Salsa Fest if it's an open invite. I have a bunch of packets of Taco Bell Spicy Red Sauce floating around in the back of my truck. I could pitch in a few if you need. Born and raised here in the "No" but have never been out to Shuteye. Would be stoked to see the place with somebody who knows their way around. Keep me in the loop if you can.
> Lets see some crack pics.Wheres the "Love Supreme"of s. Yos.?
I haven't been there that much, but from browsing the guidebook and photos, it does seem to be mostly face climbing on domes and some steep walls. Not every area gets a Love Supreme, or lots of steep cracks like Yosemite, Tuolumne, Needles, Donner, etc.
There may be some stuff at Fuller Buttes, and a little at Shuteye.
There's a nice looking 5.11/5.12 roof crack to arete on the right end of High Eagle - The Eagle Has Landed 5.12b.
Also Matt's new route, Storming the Castle 5.11+, on Gray Eagle - see his page for photos: http://www.southernsierra.org/grayeagle.html
Scott, you poor deprived lad. Tollhouse is magical but Shuteye is the next dimension my friend. You are sorely missing out on pure unadulterated heaven. SoYo is truly dah shizzle. BTW, hoping to get out to Tollhouse this Friday with Mrs. Mooch and Tiki-Ger for some slab time. Wandering Taoist comes to mind! ;)
Mark Haymond did several notable roots on T-House back in the 70's. Still active too. One of the OG's of SSCA. However, he's hung up his skates these days. Still hangs off walls with dirtbags like me.
Mark (right) after finishing the FA of Tollhouse Traverse....in skates.
Mark enjoying the ping of iron on pitch #2 on 'Bear Claw Headwall (5.8, A3), Kerkhoff Dome. Love them Frost knots!
Not wanting to screw up this magnificent thread too much - but since salsa has already been mentioned - heard from an Oakeydokian friend that El Cid's salsa apparently poisoned about 15 people last Thursday.
Madera County Health was there on Saturday to check them out for nasties in the food.
You guys might want to bring wetsuits Mooch. I think we are in for more drizzle all week. I'm cool with that 'cause the Sierra Summit Telefest is Satuday and we could use a little fresh. Lets totally get together sometime. Keep me in the loop and we'll make it happen. I'm totally for getting into Shuteye as soon as the snow melts. I have no idea why I haven't been up there yet.
And by the way. Mark isn't t he only one who rolls in style.
Yours truly on a random day at Sierra Summit last year. And yes...that's a cape.
Me, a sand-bagger! Look I'am a gate-out lifer. Yah I'm totaly out with it.
Howdy Doody Time should be a "must climb" 3 star. The way I see it, there is at least 35 to 50 feet of sustained 5.9 on the second pitch. I think it should be at least 5.10a. however I did not have anything to do with the 2nd pitch, only the second assent.
The first pitch on the other hand. My wife I were graciously invited to try a line we spoted to the belay bolts. So we did, and OMG it was a bold first. The only piece of gear was just off the start ledge and put in just so I would not crater the trail 20+ feet below the start of the route. Bolts were added later. I have returnd to climb this route every year (if not on the IL).
Sand bagging is more a gate-inners trait ie, "Loaded Gun". O-ya I went there!
Sorry Cam....more like 1/2 a star. That's one of Tollhouse's dirtier routes. Flakes peeling off and decomposing rock....with a nice touch of dirt! Dood...are we even talking about the same root???? Now, 'Think Nothing Of it'....that wasn't too bad....second pitch needed a bit of traffic but all in all....good stuff.
Give Roger Hayashi a call.....he lead HDT. Strong leader I might add.
Yeah it can be dirty after it rains. It's a water steak but when you add the lose flakes, it's like every time you climb it, it feels like a first assent. There is no guessing how the route felt to the first assent team. You just can't find that kind of quality on trade routes.
Wall #1 looks an awful lot like Disneyland to me! If it's virgin, it sure don't need any bolts. A pure plate slingin' frenzy, and/or nuts in those dandy fissures. I'm a guessing a long approach in Shuteye's southern hemisphere, but if I'm actually right, best not to say so on this forum. :)
Does 2.5 hours of continuous bushwhacking get me a medal of honor?
Hey Grahm, that's the climber formerly known as randomtask ( dumbass must have forgoten his password). "Arete with a View" if I remember right. This summer Justin and I got some really good bouldering in up there as well. I did a very fun easy, but don't fall boulder near there called "South of Heaven". And near the pass Justin nabbed an FA of "Slayer", the best problem in the pass area that I know of (we think it was an FA, but who knows-i'm sure someone will bitch about it being sent years ago).
Shuteye and Fresno Dome are open if you have the right toys! Leo and I wanted to test the theory that the rock looks dry enough to climb when you look from Oakhurst. Saint Patricks Day was sunny and clear so we decided to go for it. To many pics to post so check out the slide show for more...
man... now I gotta add snow mobile to my list.
And I thought cams were expensive.
Bet it was uncrowded.
Post a couple more gems from this day for those of us who have old school computers with no flash...
As I mentioned earlier in this thread I am working on a Shuteye Guide book. My intent is to have all the major areas, routes and boulder problems. I also plan on including Lewis Creek, Fresno/ Wamello, Willow Creek, and the San Joaquin as bonus sections because they are not in Shuteye proper. I know Tom and someone in the Bay Area are doing select guides to Shuteye soon but I want to do a more comprehensive guide.
I have been climbing almost exclusively at Shuteye for about 5 years and have tons of info but I am still missing bits and pieces.
This is a huge project and I would be crazy to think I can do it alone and have correct names, history and grades. A lot of climbers have contributed over many years to the area. So I am going to need route names, fa party and dates for some routes. The ones I don't get I will leave blank and fill them in after the first release. I won’t be making up names if I don’t know them.
Once I complete a section over the next year with all the info I have I will post it here for a review and hopefully get feed back from those who have climbed the area. Or hopefully get pointed in the right direction to fill in some of the blanks.
To start with here is a break down of the areas. If you know a different name or feel a section name should be different let me know. I tried to give (section names) a different name than the walls to avoid confusion. There are 53 areas so far. I bet there will be around 1,000 routes and boulder problems listed.
If you want to send me a private email its email@example.com
Shuteye Sections - From North to South
Lewis Creek Bouldering
Fresno / Wamello Dome
Top rope Sector
Half Day Dome
River Wall "Swimming Hole"
Helmet "Unapologetic Statement Dome"
River Wall? Are you referring to the wall downstream from the parking area for Lost Eagle, G? Hmmm....I think out of respect to the original FA's, they actually refered to thast wall as 'Skinny Dip' Wall. Check with Tiki-ger and Nate D.
As a side note, hoped to make the Helmet named as 'Dark Helmet' a) since there already is one out on the western side b) it was referred to as such because it looks like the helmet similiar to the one in Space Balls....obtuse and dark. HA ;)
Mooch and Grahm, Skinny Dip Wall was coined by Jerry Anderson and his wife. My son actually got the FA of the center route before the bolts. 'Dog on a Log' 5.9. Couple of nice boulder problems up canyon too. I'll get the names and numbers for the other routes.
I think Jeremy's dome might be The Eagle's Nest? But you could mean, The Falcon, Trainwreck wall or Voodoo Doll??? Machete boulder should be included, are you calling the gully boulders (Machete etc) the Big Sleep boulders? Also, we call Chickadee Baby Eagle. I'm not trying to make suggestions, just letting you know what the AKAs are.
FWIW, I plan on finishing all my stuff up there on the South Side of Shuteye this Summer and maybe taking a look at the East Face of Little Sleep. The Slayer Boulders and De La Rocha Boulders have some of the best classics up there for boulders, Justin has most of that info, but I'll get it to you. I'd leave out the North Fork bouldering, due to rock quality.
Yep, still in the 'Armpit Of The Mojave'. Welllllll......got my eyes set more on The Domelands (Church, Bart, The Pulpit). K. Solem recommended a bunch of routes to me a few years back and I intend on sampling these beauties. Of course the rest of the year will be hangin' out with you boys (damn East sider!) and "gettin' it dun". Also got some high country trips planned too.
Needles?? Maybe in the fall. But not before playin hooky with Munge and Brutus @ Hoffman.
Select the "Talon" file and click on the little download button on the right side. Its a pdf file so you will need a pdf application like Adobe Reader to view. Adobe has free downloads of the apps if you need one.
If you have any input let me know. Names, grades, star rating, history? Nate mentioned Vernon might have established top ropes here back in the day?
If you have a good action photo you would like in the guide for this section let me know as well. Ideally at least 3 megs in size. Older "vintage" photos a plus! I can scan them and mail back. Can't pay for pics but will give photo credits. I don't plan on using many pics of me but these are the only action shots I have so far.
Colored lines on the topo represent difficulty. Green - 5.9, Blue - 5.10, Yellow - 5.11, Purple - 5.12, Red - 5.13, Black - Project.
Star rating is out of three stars. I am thinking the rating system should be by wall. So three stars would be the best one on that wall but not in all of Shuteye.
FYI - a buddy of mine managed to punch through the snow drifts at Dutch Oven Creek and made it as far as Jackass Rocks over the weekend going up Minarets Road from North Fork.
He's guessing that another week or so and all the snow below 7000 feet should be gone - at least on that route. Beasore is another story - some sledders he ran into say that 4 feet or so still sits on Cold Springs Summit.
> I don't plan on using many pics of me but these are the only action shots I have so far.
It's probably a wise move, but I don't see anything wrong with 1 or 2 action shots of yourself - you have some good ones. But 50% shots of you would look suspicious! :-) Good to start out now seeking a variety of shots - there's a long season ahead.
> Colored lines on the topo represent difficulty. Green - 5.9, Blue - 5.10, Yellow - 5.11, Purple - 5.12, Red - 5.13, Black - Project.
This sounds interesting, but it might not work so well if lines of the same color cross each other. Would you use a different pattern of lines, like dots or dashes to solve that?
> Star rating is out of three stars. I am thinking the rating system should be by wall. So three stars would be the best one on that wall but not in all of Shuteye.
What happens if there are only 1-2 routes at a crag? Then the stars are not very informative.
Also, if the stars are relative for each crag, then they don't help for choosing between crags. But maybe that is a good thing?
I was joking with my climbing partner last weekend about the 3-star vs. 5-star system. He likes the 5-star system, because it allows some lesser routes to get a single star instead of none. I feel that the 5-star system is inflated. Even a single star system is pretty good - it lets you know which routes to make sure you look at/consider doing, if you have limited time.
I like the 3-star system, but I'm concerned that 5-star guides might sell more, "because they have better climbs"?? :-) So I proposed a 6-star system - 0, 2, 4, or 6 stars. :-)
In the Index guidebook, we had a ratings survey, where we had a preliminary list of routes by grade with stars attached - I mailed several, and we also distributed some at the parking lot. People checked off or circled the routes they had done, and either agreed with the rating or supplied their own. I also had them fill in their height, so I could make a special list of routes where the ratings ranged the most for short vs. tall people. It was fun to tally up the results and use them in the guide.
I think color coding the lines is clever. I don't own many guidebooks, unlike Clint, but I've seen it used in the french Fontainebleau bouldering guide. Even though the same colors may cross, as long as another number marker is used at the split or intersection to indicate which route is which, it's no different than what is done on most 1 color topos.
To mooch's comment, correct me if I'm wrong Grahm, but it sounded like you said before that fixed protection would not be shown in your topos. I realize it's a ton of work, esp. to be accurate, but without it, it takes a lot more reading/time to figure out which routes are sport vs. trad vs. mixed, vs. runout, etc. This seems somewhat important in a region like Shuteye, where there is quite a mix of these different types of climbs. And what about natural vs. bolted anchor differentiation? But on the other hand, I must admit that I do sort of like that it requires a little more work to "read" the routes. Might increase the adventure factor a tad, as people still have to stand at the base of a climb and suss it out.
Photo topos, as helpful as they can be for smaller crags, have drawbacks for larger faces/cliffs, as it can often be hard to get good views of an entire face and it's climbs. Not as easy to xerox either, for stuffing in one's pocket, as some tend to do, esp. for multi-pitch climbs. Don't know if you intend to supplement photos with drawings for some crags.
To the comment on dashed lines, they can be more problematic to read for photo overlays (depending on the photo and the colors used), but it does help discern cracks and features on a route that can get covered up by solid lines.
I like the idea of the star system for individual crags, but to Clint's point, it might also be helpful to have some way of indicating "overall" Shuteye classics. Sometimes this is just a "best of" list in the back of a book, but seeing as you are going 4 color, you could even have some route names in red, or the stars in red, indicating overall classics. Many options here.
I'm sure you've considered all of this already. Real cool, IMO, that you are so open in sharing this work in progress!
In response to the star system, the idea of doing stars relative to other routes on the same crag seems foreign to me. Aren't pretty much all guidebooks that use the system using either:
1. stars evaluated based on the general area or
2. stars are evaluated based on the general classicness (i know that's not a word) of the route?
it might be tough using #2 since the scale will be tipped toward everything being rated at 3 stars. Paraphrasing a friend on a route we did (that wasn't way more spectacular than anything else in the area) a few years ago "this is a good as any of the three star routes in Tuolumne"
Some good food for thought you guys! Once more crags get indexed we should definitely come up with a must do tick list for all the grades.
I don't think I can handle showing every bolt placement at Shuteye and ever actually finish the Guide. The route description will have bolt counts, anchor description and gear requirements. Nate has a good point about noting whether its sport or spicy. The bolt counts should give that away but maybe a cool little icon or the movie system ie. G, PG13, R would be better.
On another note I found a great deal on a 2003 900cc snowmobile and added it to my rack. Leo and I took them out for a test run ride last night. You can literally go anywhere on these things, just point toward a crag and pull the throttle! It only goes 115 mph...
There is still 6 feet of snow at the top of Beasore and Central Camp road is totally buried. Its still going to be a while before 4x4's can make it out there.
Also, this last weekend there was no snow to Mile High overlook on Minerets.
We are going to try to romp the snowmobiles up to Crocodile on Saturday and get some climbing in.
"You know who could really get some fine "ax-shon" photos is nefarius! Need to get him up there this season."
hahaha Thanks, Dave! I'm definitely down to get up there with you guys!!! Would love to get some shots. That place is so sick for shooting! Have some new ideas this year too, so... Not to mention my new camera will hopefully be available by then!
Just had a look at my calendar - I'll be in either Utah or Mexico May 21-31.
As you can see from Grahm's info above, there is still a bunch of snow burying Beasore (and I'm sure the same is true about Grizzly Rd). I'm thinkin' about trying for mid-May (May 15th-17th....got Friday off that week). If the snow is minimal, anyone wanna shoot for that weekend? Think you can make it that weekend Randy? G? Nate?
If I read a route listing, and it says 4 bolts + pro to 3" I know it isn't going to be a true sport route. If it says 4 bolts, it may mean it's a sport route, OR a runout route. So if you don't put in bolts on the topo, then just use a R or X next to the rating. If it only says pro to 3" I'll expect a trad line. And if it has a R next to it I know also what to expect.
As far as colors and icons... sometimes too much is just too much. Some topos are REALLY over done. Giving me the cam sizes for a belay at each point implies that I won't be able to figure it out. Some say it is to remind you to save pro for the belay, but who told the first ascent party? And didn't they live to tell the story? Perhaps a lot of adventure is lost these days due to over done topos and route descriptions. If I'm ever on a route and I'm stopping to read my topo each time I place a piece... I think i've lost something important.
Stars... man, people are obsessed, but nothing in a book is more subjective. Even ratings are less subjective. I remember being a new climber and gunning for the ultra-classic water cracks on Lembert.. the guide said * out of *. It's still one of the lamest routes I've ever done to this day. For one it isn't a crack. And you pretty much do the same move 50 times in a row. Not sure what is so classic about that.
My POINT is just that different climbs appeal to different people, like salsa.
To engage the reader, write a description and maybe say "classic for the area" or "good climb". That will get people reading and not just scanning for stars. Descriptions can do more than stars - "First pitch is classic, but skip the loose 2nd pitch." Or, "after you endure the grainy first pitch you'll be rewarded with a classic splitter crack."
And if you screw up on a bolt placement, or number (heaven knows they tend to change) of bolts, someone is likely to be pretty torqued. You're messing with safety now, not quality, which is different.
Anyway, that's enough, I say less is sometimes more. But that's just me. Some climbers want a map from the car to the summit and back.
To engage the reader, write a description and maybe say "classic for the area" or "good climb". That will get people reading and not just scanning for stars. Descriptions can do more than stars - "First pitch is classic, but skip the loose 2nd pitch." Or, "after you endure the grainy first pitch you'll be rewarded with a classic splitter crack."
The same stuff you're mentioning Tom is the same stuff that caught my eye from the narratives for some of the routes described in the SEKI, Needles and Domeland guidebooks! (well, not all of it was well put together). Then again, the Shuteye region in general won't see the circus lines like Owens River Gorge or other easier access areas. Stars.....no star....that is the question. My take: leave them stars alone*
* 5 stars for 'Three Feathers', Lost Eagle heehee.
I'd like to hope that Shuteye won't see the circus... but man, I live like 5 hours away and I've driven up there just for a day of climbing it's so good. I pray the road stays long and crappy, and that will detour most. But then again, I go, so it's lame to want everyone else to say away. Human nature. I have to share... but it's hard. But someone shared with me...
I gotta give Vernon hats off though for the guides he (they) did. While not perfect, and having some of the worst covers ever (I know it wasn't Greg's fault), they covered areas that were mostly off the radar. Any pioneering effort is a bigger effort than anyone else just building off of what was already done. Grahm is doing that too, so hats off to Grahm as well. These types of guides break ground, and fertilize the soil so to speak for the rest of us. We see pics, or potential, and fill the fields.
All in all, more climbing is good. Shuteye can't help it if it just happens to be better than most other places. It's the hot younger sister to Yosemite for sure, that many people have over looked, or just haven't noticed yet. Well, she's turning 18 boys! Come have a look! But be gentlemen! Treat the place with respect.
Oh yeah, and no stars for me. Make me work for it, even though it goes against my lazy nature. Make me read a sentence or two. Or even worse (!), go climb it myself and form my own opinion!
topos (not photo overlays) are pretty tough for this area. If you were to draw a topo for some of the routes I have put in, it would be very hard to convince the uninitiated guidebook reader that it's not an R/X route because there is so much face climbing, protected by cracks and chickenheads that the person on route might not see depending on the sequence they take. There are alot of places where the knobs are so plentiful that you can't drill a bolt even if you wanted to, unless you were to put the bolt on a knob. Contrast this with some of the more blank formations that have just plain sick runout slab routes and it makes a pretty difficult situation for a guidebook author to help make the area accessible to folks without alot of hard to acquire detail.
It really is an area that would be tough to start out climbing, but if you were to get through that learning curve, provide some rad training for high sierra routes and long valley routes.
All the more reason to attach a narrative to the route listed. That way the route can be described: "...overcome a small roof (5.10a) by traversing left on chickenheads then continue up a full pitch while slinging a constellation of knobs." Problem solved.
There's that word "constellation" again. ;)
Nate, I've never known you to be camera shy....straw hat and all. You can pose with Cyndi.....I won't mind. :D
That weekend should work for me, Mooch. Keep me posted. Maybe I can get out a couple of days between now and then so that I might at least be able to climb some lowly 5.9's again! hahaha Not been a lot of climbing in the last year.
On the positive side, I'll certainly be ready to shoot. :)
edit: I saw Graham had a snow mobile a few posts back... We should head up *while* there is snow still up there. That'd make for great shots! :)
Hmmm... (black topo guess) ok, it's a place where there are a mix of trad climbs and bolted face routes, but not necessarily "sport" routes. Cliff is realatively short, maybe one pitch or two at most. Since it's mixed trad, it's in the valley or nearby?
What am I going to do with my old hand-drawn topos given to me 15 years ago by some homeless dude camping out at Fresno Dome Campground? The Hinterlands rock. I'll miss taking big bros on fingercracks and quickdraws on offwidths but I'm stoked for all the work you are putting into this thing.
Great job. Can't wait to see the final product and git out there.
No, because it's a thread on So. Yosemite and we're talking about Shuteye.
So is it just some random topo?
And I want royalties if you're gonna be throwin' my image around.
I work hard to look that good...
Not random, my friend. Just a portion of one of roughly 55+ known crags/domes/formations at Shuteye. Don't know 'bout the climber, but that route on the Hobbit does look quite good. :)
Don't worry, there are, and will still be, plenty of obscurities where you can take all the wrong gear in the Hinterlands. But if you want to put those big bros to work, hook up with us this summer - as we know of a few "fingercracks" where they'd come in real handy!
*gasp*......can't.....catch my breath....HAHAHA! *gasp*!!
Tom....if you keep making guesses like that, you'll surely be laughed off this thread! Keep 'em comin'!
Hey Ger....you guys get out to Tollhouse? Sent you, Rog, Leo and Nate an email regarding our outting yesterday at Suicide. Surprised I'm not typing this from a hospital bed....darn near got blown into the next county while attempting 'Mickey Mantle'.
I haven't gotten any confirmation from the Forest Circus but I've heard you can reach Arnold Meadow pretty easy right now.
NateD, seems ironic that the "topo" you posted seems to have lost the picture of the rock, or am I way off base? ;)
Grahm, I personally feel that colored lines of the same color crossing each other won't be an issue-it happens in all guidebooks-they just use one color for all routes. As for indicating every bolt placement...good luck on that. For anyone that doubts the monumental undertaking that would be just look in Grahm's trip report at all the rock in the Half Day Dome shot. And that is a very minor section of Shuteye potential.
Your comment on keeping Shuteye a secret but realizing that isn't right is a refreshing outlook. Keeping areas secret while they are developed is one thing, but keeping things completely secret only leads to trouble. I know I've accidently put a bolt on an established climb, and I admit it is probably the biggest pussy bolt up there (caved into pressure from my ex- you gotta understand that!)only to hear some old dude bitch about it a couple of years later for someone disrespecting his climb. No problem, I'll chop it...and I highly suspect Grahm and Matt have done the same things up there (not intentionally). I think that this is a very good place for all of us to share our info because when it comes to Shuteye ignorance is not bliss-it leads to infighting between climbers and really, who wants to climb with a bad taste in their mouth?
EDIT: fixed terrible grammar in case my mom ever reads this, she'd be mortified her little angel can't use a posesesive "s" correctly. She'll have to get over the spelling though.
I completely agree JR. Not sharing information could only hurt the shuteye community by having alot of what you just described. One way to minimize the issue: use the 3/8" red heads that are all over shuteye. Drill the hole deeper than you need to place the bolt, put the hanger on and tighten it. If you've added a bolt and need to chop it, or more pertinently if you need to rebolt the placement in X years you can back the nut off and center punch the stud back into the rock and epoxy patch the hole. There is a particular type of epoxy that's kosher that I've used on many ASCA rebolting missions. You mix it up, throw it in the hole, and then schmeeer a bit of sand/dirt from the local area that you've carried up in a film canister and you're golden.
There is the issue when you drill the hole to deep that water can seep in over time and in winter freeze. Then you've got a little freeze thaw cycle going on in your bolt hole. I've never heard any science on this if its really an issue, if it hurts the placement, causes it to rust out too quick. Can anyone comment?
I have checked their specs and while not as strong as Power Bolts (Rawl 5 piece) they are still super strong. They are rated to 4,500 pounds shear strength in 6,000 psi concrete. Granite of course is harder. Plus they have a safety margin built in. I figure if it can hold my jeep up in the air its safe to whipper on.
Too bad I just bought a box someplace else for about $1 each, although that included shipping.
I bought Fixe (4mm thick) hangers in quantity when they were on sale a couple of years ago for about $2 each. I've heard the SS hangers at Pagan Gear were pretty low prices for large quantities. It looks like they are now called Climb Axe, and cost $1.75 each? http://www.climbaxe.com/climbaxebolthanger.aspx
The Spadout page looks for low prices, and most SS hangers (Fixe, Metolius, Petzl Coeur) are listed at $2.95 each http://www.spadout.com/c/bolts-and-hangers/
(it does say $1.75 for Fixe on the page, but that links to a plated steel hanger)
I'm tired of the Powers 5-piece bolt. Especially when bolting on lead. Can't seem to find a system that keeps them from loosening up when pre-installed with hanger. Last bolt job using them was a near abortion (insert image of humbled, embarassed louse!). The upper sleeve on one of them started to "flower out" as I was hammering in the last bit of length. Granted, they are ideal if you're considering removal later on but I'm over 'em. Thinking Red Head, Fixe or Hilti SS bolts are the way to go.....simplicity.
I don't use rawls for anything except for anchors on a ledge. Any kind of bolting on lead scenario just does not jive with rawls. They come apart, and you need two hands to place them after the hole is drilled. Unless you're using hooks, this is usually not possible on vertical terrain.
OK, some health advice... Make sure you have insurance if you ride with Grahm on his snowmobile. Psycho. That said... Shuteye in the snow is bitchin' and well worth the effort. It was cool to see High Eagle buried in a snowfield. Still lots of climbing to do. Grahm - post up a pic with some of the white stuff in it.
FYI, looking through your photos from your last post. Some amazing shots in there. I saw one that said FA of 'thief in the night'. I'm pretty sure there is a route by this name already on Queens Throne. I'd have to look back at the old Greg Vernon typewriter era guide i have.
In other shuteye news, I will likely be in town for Memorial Day weekend going out with a few amigos. Whomever wants to join is welcome provided you pass the shuteye test...
There is "Thieves in the Night" at Queen's Throne:
303. Easy Does It 5.9, 3p
304. Paper Tiger 5.6
305. Thieves in the Night 5.7
306. In the Heat of the Night 5.8
307. Tap-dance Buttress 5.10
308. Snake Eyes 5.12c
309. Catching Some Shuteye 5.11b
310. A Climber's Requiem 5.10c, 3p
311. Midnight Caller 5.11d or 5.10 A1
312. Risin' of the Moon 5.10
313. Black Madonna 5.12a or 5.10a A1
314. Whiplash 5.12a or 5.10b A2
315. Wait Until Dark 5.10c, might be L of Black Madonna - see topo
316. Welcome to Shuteye Ridge 5.11
317. Crown Jewel 5.12b
318. Jeepers Creepers 5.11
319. Scepter 5.6, RFC, 5p
320. Pit and the Pendulum 5.9 A2, 6p, crosses Scepter to L
321. Coronet 5.8, 6p
322. Nipple by Pass 5.8, 3p
Since it's Hobbit Dome (I'm an English teacher and teach the book and am a fan), "Thief in the Night" is one of the chapter titles where he gives the Arkenstone (the latest new route I did with Grahm - Arkenstone .11b) to the "enemies" to bargain for peace.
Route and name still intact... Thief in the Night 5.8 pro to 3"
Go do it... killer dihedral and natural pro with only two bolts added on face section.
Topo of dome due out in Nor Cal guidebook (due out this summer - see upcoming R&I article issue 179).
NOTE: The old trad route "Looking Glass" on Fresno Dome has been bolted by someone (at least 2 bolts next to the initial dandy crack). In the off chance that someone 'round these parts actually did such a thing, the bolts will be removed and holes patched within the week. Bolts appearing on bold and unreported lines has happened on occasion in the region, but on a well known and well protected line is obviously an entirely different matter.
Just an FYI.
Tom - did you hear that Peter Jackson will finally be doing a film of The Hobbit?
I didn't hear that. The old movie sucked, but my students still beg me to show it.
It's so bad it's fun to watch. And just for the record, I'm a fan, but I don't dress up as a hobbit for Halloween, have Arwyn poster over my bed, or think I'm part elf. Royal was a fan, so that makes it OK. Plus, since he called that area the Hinterlands, it seemed fitting, the dome's name is my nod to him. Royal is my hero.
No, 'good' is when you fail to do your homework and label routes in a guidebook as 'Unknown' when they actually have names (insert Pink Floyd's "Money"). Hmmm.....the internet would be a good place to start.
What's the word on Beasore? Still snow up near Cold Springs summit? Tiki told me that Grizzly is open. Gonna be up in Shuteye 2moro. Crazy Horse said he's showing up at LE on Saturday (solo) and looking to link up with one of us to partner with.
All roads are open. The thunder storms lately have made things a bit crazy though. Saw some dime size hail stones on Sunday left over from Saturdays storms.
Weather was good Sunday though we watched lightning over the Balls. A small rain cell just missed us and hit Chiquito instead. We were lucky enough to climb on three different formations.
I got some shots of a long time friend Ross Cowan going for it on Eagles Gift a mixed route 12a on High Eagle. There are some key sequence shots of the cruxes so... Warning - if you want to onsight this climb don't look! ;-)
My brother went hiking from the Norris trailhead last weekend. The norris trailhead is a bit towards Clover Meadow from the bowler campground. He accessed it from Beasore. He's got a pretty big truck and got stuck hard back there and had to shovel out. as far as I know it's open now, but might still be 4wd only. Either way Grizzley should be open though you might have to access it from minerets road if you want to do it in 2wd.
Not hard, but engaging. Roger was a positive influence, loved climbing with him, he's pretty chill and he has kids, so I related. Can't wait to try out your developing area in the future. With my current projects now done, I'm gonna play elsewhere for now... Needles and later Kings. But I'll be back up in the fall. Maybe then?
Hey Matt...I climbed with your brother at Chiquito....remember??
But some guy did borrow the shovel at cold springs.
Some old guy had a breaker bar that came in real handy for the icy sections.
Learned some history from the old cabin owners.
Next day saw the old "hawaiian shirt dude" (kinda Ernest Hemingway)
at the Mtn. House with Roger.
Those are cool pics of "Eagle's Gift"! I had to stare at them for a few minutes before I realized that's a route Dan McDevitt and I put up called Va-Va-Voom. It's right at the corner of High Eagle where the south face turns to the east face. The climber is falling at the crux where you have to move right around the corner on some thin edges. Hasn't Dan given you route info? If not, I'd be happy to help. Please email me!
Right On! I haven't received anything from Dan. But, I haven't been ready for more info until recently. I have been making notes on all the climbs and figured when the time was right the info would come along.
I figured some routes from you guys might have been renamed over the years. I would love to get the scoop on all the stuff you guys did and set the record straight for the guide. We are planning on sending the route this Sunday. The moves getting to the arete are nuts! Va VA Voom... You guys did a great job.
I have 50 climbs documented just on High Eagle but half don't have names or FA info yet!
My regular email is firstname.lastname@example.org
I think I have climbed most of the routes already and have some of the info but...
If possible I am organizing the info for routes like this:
Location - Grade - Name - Bolt count, Gear Req., Anchor type - Length in Meters - Description - FA Party, Date
For High Eagle SE Face, there's a whole topo which I think Louie Anderson made, on rockclimbing.com. Here is a revised version of it:
[topos and route list updated 6/6/09]
and a redrawn version:
Here's a photo overlay based on it, using a photo from Matt's page:
And a route list - many of the names are missing:
High Eagle Dome - SE face (approach trail from notch campsite)
361. Song of the Night 5.10a *, 4p, p1: 5.8 or 5.10 ow, p2: 5.10a to 5.7, p3: 5.8
362. Gravity's Rainbow 5.10, crack, R of last pitch of Song of the Night
363. Night Hawk 5.10c *, 4p, p1: 5.10a to 5.10c, p2: 5.9 to 5.6 knobs
364. un HE C 5.10a, 6x, gear, 120'
365. un HE D 5.10d, 4p, 5.10b/d ow
366. un HE E 5.11a, 11x, 100'
367. Eagle Dreams 5.10b *, 4p, p1: 6x, gear, 100'
368. un HE G 5.10d *, 12x, 100'
369. un HE H 5.11b, 8x, 80'
370. un HE I 5.10c, 5x, gear, 55'
371. un HE J 5.10a, 6x, 80'
372. un HE K 5.11a *, 8x, 80'
373. Easy Rider 5.11d, 16x, 140', black hangers?, at start climb K and reach over to clip ER bolts
374. Tranquility 5.13c *, 16x, 130', wide black streak on headwall, some chipped holds
375. Spirit Waves 5.11b, 10x, 90' to midway anchors, or 165' finish on VtA
376. Sky Clad 5.13d pr., belay at top of Spirit Waves/VtA, face R of black streak
377. un HE O 5.12, __x, crack between Spirit Waves and Voyage to A., 110'
378. un HE P 5.12d, __x, upper wall, p1 to anchor, p2 crosses streak
379. Voyage to Antiquity 5.10a, 13x, gear, 175', parallel and L of EKN
Joins Spirit Waves
380. Turkey Vulture 5.13a, 20x, right from top of VtA on obvious underclings, 2nd half 12b, reachy, 165'
381. Eine Kleine Nachtmusik 5.10a *, 3p, p1: 5.9 60m, p2 5.10a slab, p3 5.6 knobs
382. A Gathering of Eagles 5.11 *, 1p, __x, gear
383. Threatened and Endangered 5.11d *, 11x, 175'
384. Bio Luminescent (halfway) 5.11a, starts just right of TaE
385. Bio Luminescent (full) 5.12c, 20x, shares anchor with TaE, 165'
386. Eagle's Gift 5.12a *, 1p, joins The Eagle has Landed
388. Crack Attack 5.11c, 3x to L-arching crack which joins Illuminati, 80'
389. The Eagle has Landed 5.12b *, 3p, over roof and up arete
and some FA info which is probably incomplete/wrong:
361. Song of the Night FA: Eric Richard, Herb Laeger, Greg Vernon, 10/87
364. un HE C FA: (for several of these routes) Dan McDevitt, Sue McDevitt, (some) Urmas Franosch
367. Eagle Dreams FA: Jim Matthews or Patrick Paul, Greg Vernon, 9/88
377. un HE O FA: Sean Leary
378. un HE P FA: Sean Leary
379. Voyage to Antiquity FA: Gary Henning, 9/05
380. Turkey Vulture FA: Grahm Doe, 2007
381. Eine Kleine Nachtmusik FA: Jim Matthews, Greg Vernon, 10/88
383. Threatened and Endangered FA: Richard Leversee, Kevin Daniels, Herb Laeger, Pete Cassam, 1997
385. Bio Luminescent (full) FA: Grahm Doe, 2007
386. Eagle's Gift FA: Andrew Stevens, Ron Carson, 10/88
388. Crack Attack FA: Grahm Doe, 2007
389. The Eagle has Landed FA: Ron Carson, Andrew Stevens, 10/88
And for historical reference, the page from Greg Vernon's supplement (sorry this does not reproduce very well):
Thanks Clint! Dan's the one who recorded the route names and other info. I left him a message and hope to hear from him soon. I'll be going there myself in a couple weeks, and my memory will be refreshed. For now there's not much I can add to what you guys alredy know. Do you have a photo of the east face?
Thanks again clint! I'm impressed by your detailed route knowledge, and the photos to back it up. I really liked your photo of the DNB, showing the aid and free variations. It made me want to get on it again!
These east face shots show a few of the lines, but a clearer straight on shot taken earlier in the day would be needed to really show all the routes.
I do have some good shots of the East face and I'll post them up in a bit. I have been on all the routes except one on the far right side. We will get on that one soon too. I got that old poot sling off one of the routes last year. Its been hanging there for 5 years!
Urmas, I would be happy to meet you up there and go over your routes with ya when you come out if its helpful.
Looking at those east face pictures...did Changeling (.11c?) ever go down Grahm? It shares anchors or did you put new ones in? What was the name of the harder one to the left? Was it Shapeshifter 5.12b? Dude, why are all your routes 5.12?
I left out Baby Blues Wall, (upper L SE face), because I figured the route names/history was known for those. (But now that I looked, I don't see any FA info for those climbs....) Here it is - didn't mean to neglect it! :-)
Baby Blues Wall (upper SE face of High Eagle, can approach from top)
354. un BB a 5.8/5.9 tr
355. un BB b 5.8/5.9 tr
356. Baby Blues Buttress Left 5.10 tr, slightly overhanging arete to BF anchor
357. Baby Blues Buttress Right 5.10+ tr, slightly overhanging arete to BF anchor
358. Bird Feed 5.10c, 5x
359. Song of the Birds 5.9, double ropes recommended
360. BB chimney 5.5
We apparently walked down past this when descending from Eine Kleine Nachtmusik last summer, but I didn't check out the climbs.
Grahm, It would be great if you and Dan and I could meet up out there! I'm not sure I can arrange that, but I will email you to let you know when I'm coming out. I look forward to meeting you and exchanging info!
Just let me know when your ready, I can meet up any time.
Jeremy - Changeling went down at 11c with gear and bolts it shares the 50 meter anchor with Shape Shifter 12b. Now stop hassling me or I'll slap u with my giant mits! ;-)
Heres my topo for the East Face. I have been calling it the "Dark Side Wall" because it is so dark with lichen and its in the shade most of the day. The wall to the left is Shape Shifter Wall and has 5 routes. I have all the beta on those. This wall needs FA, date info and maybe a consesus on grades.
The Dark Side - This large slab wall has dark colored rock that extends from the Shape Shifter Wall all the way right to the first routes encountered on High Eagle.
1. 5.8 - Gear - A three pitch route up the deep depression in the dome. Originally done in 5 pitches. FA Jack Delk, Guy McClure 7-75
2. 11c or d - 60m - 16 bolts plus gear to 1.5” for a 30 foot long seam section higher on the route. Shared closed cold shut anchor with 3. A great route.
3. 10d - 60m - 19 bolts, 9 to midway chain anchor 10b and 10 more to shared closed cold shut anchor with 2. A short crux above the 30m anchor leads to wandering seam climbing above. Bring many extendible draws to reduce rope drag from low on the route and especially for the upper section.
4. 11 c or d - 3 older bolts and gear. 3 pitches. Start by climbing a short 12 foot crack to a bolt. Follow around a flake system and then clip two more bolts up a slick slab. Run it out to a good ledge system below the big left facing dihedral. Follow the dihedral up on gear and then continue up to the summit.
5. 10b - 14 Bolts, open cold shuts - 30m - An excellent climb with fun holds. Start up a thin short dihedral past 2 bolts and then work your way up the face. Eventually you reach a good crack system. Easy run out 5.9 climbing leads to more bolts. Place gear up to 1.5 inches if you like. After following the crack / dihedral left climb back right across the face to the anchor. A tough move to the anchor makes most people grab the anchor to drop the rope in.
6. 11b - 10 Bolts, ring anchor - 30m - Start off a high ledge by either traversing in from way right or by climbing any of the short cracks below the ledge. Any easy but commiting step up leads to the first bolt. Follow a short left trending seam before climbing back right. Continue moving right across the dome on wild moves with slopey feet. Past the last bolt mantle off a ramp to reach the anchor.
7. 10a - 7 bolts, chain anchor - 25m - Start off a ledge and trend left until reaching a thin under cling flake that leads back hard right to the anchor.
8. 11a - 11 bolts, chain anchor - 30m - Shared first bolt and last 2 with 9. Climb up the thin flake and straight over to a difficult face move. Then move right across a delicate traverse and then up to the anchor.
9. 11a - 10 bolts, chain anchor - 30m - Move right off the first bolt and then up thin seams and a steep bulge. While the holds are clean the lower section off the route could use a good wire brushing to remove lichen. A bit spicier lead than 8.
10. 10c? Bolts Climb up the steep bulges. Haven't climbed yet.
11. Spencer guide shows route up the right shoulder of the dome.
Sean Leary (aka Stanley) did some FAs at the Aerie, which is right next to High Eagle. Maybe that is what you are thinking of? And of course my FA list is quite incomplete. I'm sure Grahm's is better. Hopefully Dan and Urmas will fill in the blanks on their routes, too (using Grahm's photo overlay on the previous page).
Clints topo shows Sean Learys 12d on High Eagle as Turkey Vulture. Turkey Vulture is actually one of my lines and its just to its right. Don't remember getting a name from Sean on his route. He also did an optional approach pitch to his route just left of Voyage to Antiquity. I think thats all of his routes on High Eagle.
Yeah Grahm, I was belaying Sean on his route right next to turkey vulture, at my friend Brian's bachelor party. You were climbing right next to us. I just didn't see it on the topo, and based on the topography, figured it was turkey vulture.
Too bad they were lame and used old stock footage (9 year old pictures!?? WTF and recycled! from May 2000 issue of Climbing no less) instead of the rad shots we got during the cover shoot. I have to say, I lost a little more respect for the rag. Not sure what they were thinking and it makes me question Duane's eye.
In fact, Grahm, post up the horizontal shot of you on Shangri La.
I would if I could figure out how. Something something... Img blah blah blah[ ] ?
Dave - My email is email@example.com Please send me any info you would like to share. We have been looking at those cracks and wondered if they had been done yet. I can get your pin back to you if you want it. There also was a small stopper just above it. I also puller some mank stoppers and a hex out of the lichen covered dihedral crack to the right. I assumed Crocodile Hunter was never freed past the roof. Was I correct? Did you have a working name?
I can send you a topo of Crocodile for referencing where your other routes are once I get your email.
Tom - You got some amazing shots and its a shame they didn't publish them.
Rather than send you privately how to post pics I'll do it here in case someone else wants to know.
Go to www.photobucket.com and create a free account. Other free image photo sites are similar like flikr. From your account choose upload and find the image on your computer. It will resize it for you for the internet. After its uploaded put your mouse over the image and a bunch of options will show. Copy the "img" code into your text on the forum and bam! you've got pics!
This never translates successfully on a Mac.
When I put my mouse over a picture nothing happens.
And I spend all my time uploading onto my own website, I don't want an additional site to spend time on.
Shouldn't I be able to use my own site addresses? Email me... told you I had issues.
Three of us made it out on Sunday to High Eagle, Aerie and 557's. We had morning sun, afternoon clouds, a bit of wind and temps around 60. Good for sending!
We all sent Eagles Gift aka Va Va Voom. It even saw a flash which was pretty cool.
I finally finished the trail work to 557's from the Aerie. Now its quicker and with less up and down hiking. There was an old trail and I was able to link the new one into it with some clearing. Now the trail comes out of the woods right across from Hobbit Dome.
On 557's Fa'd a new 10b/c just right of See You In Heaven. 200 feet of amazing face climbing and the second half climbs on both sides of a water runnel that looks like a pipe split down the middle. Dreamy incut horns pop out every time you need one. 21 bolts with a mid way rap station. It sounds like a lot of bolts but it doesn't feel like a sport climb with an average spacing of 9 to 10 feet apart. I am calling it "Half Pipe Dreams"
Nice Grahm! '5 Amigos' (the unfinished project just left of the Gold Buttress) was finally finished. Went down at .10d with 2 bolts linking up the lower to the upper crack. Goes a full 60 meters before the crack (5.6) ends in the corner next to the buttress. Also, put up two new routes on the Gray Slab (75' left of '5 Amigos'). The left route (which is just 10' right of 'Fill In The Blank', the OW/crack climb) is still a TR. Tough slab/face climbing.....checks in at solid 5.11. Calling it 'Blister The Bird'. The right route, which starts on a boulder, is a bolted line (7 bolts, 85 feet) heading up steep slab with subtle dishes and tiny smears with two demanding cruxes (both mantles, the first involving a balancy high step/rocker over move). Calling it 'A Touch Of Gray', .10c.