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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Topic Author's Original Post - Jan 22, 2009 - 08:53pm PT
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So I'm gonna make some new bookshelves and DVD/CD cabinets. Any ideas on good books and/or tips for the project. I'm sick of cheap particleboard crap that flexes, falls apart. I'm talking quality wood, looks good, sturdy.
Help me out my bruthas...
My Idea is a 6'6" cabinet type thing that's 3' wide and differing depths based on books or dvd/cd's. I want to make two identical ones, one for books, one for digital media. Maybe doors on the media one.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
Monrovia, CA
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Jan 22, 2009 - 09:30pm PT
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If you are going to make it out of solid wood as opposed to plywood I suggest European Steamed Beech. It is good looking, very stable, works easily, and reasonably priced. That said the challenge is how you are going to join the shelves to the verticals. The easiest is screwing it together and filling your screw holes with wooden plugs sanded flush. A couple of coats of boiled linseed oil will make it nice and it is easy to apply- just don't leave the oily rags balled up in the garbage unless you want to try out your fire insurance. email me and I can show you exactly what I'm talking about.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 22, 2009 - 09:54pm PT
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Thanks guys, good ideas. I may e-mail you guys after a scouting mission at the local lumber yard.
Ikea? Dude, that's what I'm trying to avoid!
It's also a project to keep me busy while I try to quit smoking.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
Monrovia, CA
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Jan 22, 2009 - 10:03pm PT
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While you quit smoking? Dude, you're gonna need more than a bookcase! Why don't you come down and I'll get you started on some framing lessons on the back of my house. I'll even throw in free roofing and drywalling techniques! But seriously, a good project is a good idea. :-)
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Dr.Sprock
Boulder climber
Sprocketville
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Jan 22, 2009 - 10:10pm PT
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Ol Blu, go to Southern Lumber in S.J., they have an awesome selection if you have not been there.
Check the scrap bin.
Make it out of ten differnt woods.
or go to Rasputin Records and get a pine rack and stain it, but they are cheap, so screw that idea.
over.
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goatboy smellz
climber
dirty south
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Jan 22, 2009 - 10:11pm PT
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What kind of tools do you have?
And how much cash are you willing to spend on wood and tools that you may need?
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Dr.Sprock
Boulder climber
Sprocketville
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Jan 22, 2009 - 10:13pm PT
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Mills are closing down all over the Pac N. West.
A million home surplus means cheap wood.
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tolman_paul
Trad climber
Anchorage, AK
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Jan 23, 2009 - 02:56pm PT
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As a friend who's a master wood worker told me, it takes just as much labor to make a piece from cheap wood as it does from good wood.
That said, what tools do you have, and what skills? A simple design well executed from good materials will look much better than someone fancy that you don't quite pull off, no offense intended.
Fine woodworking magazine has good articles and some fairly nice designs. Also tons of designs on line you can find with some googling.
McBeath Hardwoods in Berkley has some nice wood. But unless you're set up with a full shop, you're probably better with sticking with quality hardwood faced plywood for the carcase than dealing with solid woods. One note with book cases, most of them seem to suffer from the shelves bowing. Don't make the spans too long, and keep the shelves thick enough to support the weight.
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east side underground
Trad climber
Hilton crk,ca
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Jan 23, 2009 - 03:04pm PT
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Warbler has the right idea but instead of edge banding with iron on ,rip strips of nice hardwood gives a pro look with not of extra $ and time, glue up & finish nail with micro-pinner
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 23, 2009 - 03:08pm PT
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Well, not too many skills. I have made stuff before, cool workbench, some outdoor benches. I have some tools, no router yet but I'll probably get one.
The design is pretty simple, standard book case with doors, which will be the trickiest part I think. I've never worked with wood-glues before but that sounds like a good way to go coupled with woodscrews and plugs as mentioned above.
I'll probably by a book because I may start building more sh#t. My buddy has a lathe and a shopsmith, radial arm saw so I may do some sh#t over there.
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tolman_paul
Trad climber
Anchorage, AK
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Jan 23, 2009 - 03:36pm PT
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Hit the library, most have a stack a books on woodworking projects.
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Anastasia
climber
Not here
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Jan 23, 2009 - 03:46pm PT
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You should look into reclaimed wood. It is pretty cool looking and should be cheaper than the wood at the lumber store. I just build a bookshelf and if I can do it... (It's a scary sight to see me wield a hammer.) Anyone can do it. (Just measure twice before cutting and... Be prepared to buy an extra plank. I murdered one while trying to cut a fancy curve in it through a knot.)
AF
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ninjah
Big Wall climber
a van down by the river
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Jan 23, 2009 - 03:58pm PT
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IF you get a router, I think,dovetails in a good pine works well!
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 23, 2009 - 04:00pm PT
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dovetails in a good pine works well!
Explain...
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Bart Fay
Social climber
Redlands, CA
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Jan 23, 2009 - 04:16pm PT
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Loads of designs/plans on the internut. Everything you'd kneed to know and then some.
Bonus data learned from reviewing several ways to make the same piece.
Dovetails and dados are fine techniques, but not the easiest to execute without some experience.
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ninjah
Big Wall climber
a van down by the river
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Jan 23, 2009 - 04:22pm PT
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well, box frame,(nice hardwood),pine ledgers at shelf height,maybe, 4 or 5 with a 6' height!, dove tail the shelfs and fit with receiveing dove slots inthe ledger, pin nail from outside in, and wola!
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TradIsGood
Chalkless climber
the Gunks end of the country
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Jan 23, 2009 - 04:27pm PT
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Consider making 2 18" racks. Lighter, easier to move, shorter span, ...
The next place you live, or if you remodel, or furniture just needs to be moved around due to outside forces, you might have a need for two separate smaller units.
Until then you can use them together. Plus if you aren't happy with the first one, you have only half the "waste".
Consider lighting for a CD / DVD rack. It can be hard to read the titles if they aren't well lighted.
Doors may be required for your situation, but consider door-less. That way you do not have to worry about whether the location has room for swinging doors or whether they swing the right direction.
Sounds like fun. Good hardwood plywood can look really nice. Redid a powder room with maple. Awesome look. Lots of different affordable woods that can match any decor that supports natural look.
EDIT:
What are you going to do with the bottom 3 feet or so. It is pretty inconvenient height for CDs, and you probably don't have LPs! :-)
Speakers? Decorative stuff? Just an "art" face? Place to hide stuff that has no other place?
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 23, 2009 - 04:45pm PT
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TIG, yeah, the bottom 2 feet or so will be a 'random' area with doors.
I think you missed that I'm planning 2 seperate cases that are 36-40" wide each. I figure that keeps it to a manageable width to move through doors and stuff if needed. Depending on the wood it could get heavy too, but manageable with two people.
Thanks for tips so far everybody.
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PRRose
climber
Boulder
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Jan 23, 2009 - 04:48pm PT
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If your time or woodworking skills are limited, it can make sense to start with an IKEA (or similar) piece and improve it.
1. Glue the piece together. IKEA uses knock-down fittings that usually work pretty well as clamps. Just run a bead of glue along the mating parts before you assemble and the case will be much stronger.
2. If shelves are bowing, reinforce the front edge with a strip of wood glued and screwed to the underside. Alternatively, glue and screw a cleat the length of the shelf 1/3 of the way back--if you do this, you probably don't even have to finish it.
3. Glue and screw the adjustable shelves in place. The best screw for particle board is a "Conformat" screw, which requires a special drill bit.
4. Improve the joints #1. Dadoing the top, bottom, and fixed shelves in place will make the case much stronger. This works well for bookcases without doors or applied moldings, because the bookcase will end up slightly narrower--you will probably have to trim the back. The tools required are minimal--router, the correct size router bit, and a guide you can clamp to the sides to make the cuts.
5. Improve the joints #2--get a biscuit joiner and use it to reinforce the joints. The beauty of biscuits is that the dimension of the case doesn't change, so doors or moldings don't have to be trimmed to fit.
6. Install a face frame--This will greatly strengthen inexpensive casework and allow you to unify several cases into what can look like a single built-in piece. This is relatively tool and skill intensive compared to the other ideas, but looks really nice, especially if you use a nicely finished hardwood.
#1 and #2 will make most inexpensive casework suitable for a full load of books.
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DJS
Trad climber
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Jan 23, 2009 - 05:23pm PT
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This will take extra time and $$$, but think about building your case(s)with removable/height adjustable shelves. That way you can use it (them) for a variety of reasons.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 23, 2009 - 05:27pm PT
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DJS, yeah, I'm considering that, some of them if not all I'm considering to do adjustable.
Thanks
Anthony, looks like some cool tips on that site. I'll have to check it out more at home.
Thanks.
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the Fet
Knackered climber
A bivy sack in the secret campground
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Jan 23, 2009 - 05:37pm PT
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DMT: "He bought a shitload of old pew boards from an old church that was getting torn down. I don't know how much he bought, but he still has some of it. We made a huge dining room table out of, and numerous other things."
My dad took some 24" floorboards out of our attic when he was insulating it. Our house was built about 1770 out of a kit manufactured in England before there were lumber mills in the US. He made a dining room table out of it too. When my parents moved they asked what us kids wanted and I wanted the table. But they kept it for their "new" place (their new place is even older, my grandparents farm). So I guess I gotta wait 'til they die to get it. 250 year old wood from the house I grew up in, built into a table by my dad... can't buy that at Ikea!
So get the best wood you can, make it nice, and leave it to your son. You can find cool recycled and new wood on craigslist.
http://sfbay.craigslist.org/mat/
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Strider
Trad climber
one of god's mountain temples....
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Jan 23, 2009 - 05:59pm PT
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A few of the most important things I have learned through my limited wood working is the importance of jigs, glue and clamping.
Example of a jig...You want to make your shelves adjustable using those little metal shelf pegs and you need to drill holes to a certain depth along the face of your bookshelf and they need to be straight. So you take a piece of 2x4 or plywood and you drill the holes in that, then you it as a template for the real holes you will be drilling. If you screw up the 2x4 you can just start again. Adjust your drill bit depth so that when you drill through the template and into the bookshelf the drill bit will stop at the right depth. Take this jig concept to heart. It seems like a lot of extra work but in reality you finished product will be that much better! Save the jogs for future projects (I have a STACK of them).
Gluing will, in most cases, create a stronger bond that screws or nail can ever achieve. Use liberally but make sure you clean up excess or you will have a finishing nightmare. When you do screw things together, a pilot hole will go a long way to make sure you don't split your boards
Clamp everything! When you glue, clamp. When you cut a board, clamp. When you screw two pieces together, clamp so they don't move that fraction of an inch that will screw everything up. A framing square, a 2' and 4' level and a clamp will go a long way to help you make sure everything is square and flush.
When cutting your boards, I have moved away from the measure twice and cut once mantra and instead I usually measure once, add a little extra and then slowly whittle down the wood until I get the perfect fit. This works especially well when doing miter cuts like crown molding, mop boarding, wainscoting and window/door moldings. Perfect fit every time.
Routing boards can be very tricky if you don't know the basic rules about speed, direction of cut, depth of cut, etc... If you plan to do a lot of edge routing I would suggest sitting down in Barnes and Noble for half an hour with a cup of coffee and reading up. You don't really need to buy the book to understand the basics.
If you don't have a table saw to help you rip your boards, then a great way to make a long rip is to clamp a 2x4 as a straight edge on your board and then just follow your circular saw along the 2x4 for a perfect cut. I actually have a table saw but I never use it because I have gotten so used to just clamping and ripping. Quick and easy.
Almost any screw up can be fixed with some wood filler, sand paper and paint. If you do not plan on painting your bookshelf and instead want the natural wood look, you will have to be extra careful on all your finish cuts.
Do not trust the angle measurements on your miter saw! These are very likely out of whack by now. Get a protractor and check all measurements on your saws to make sure they are accurate. These need to be adjusted usually after any project with 50 or more cuts. When doing finish work, you would be surprised at how much of a difference 1 degree can be.
I have got a million of these...
-n
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goatboy smellz
climber
dirty south
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Jan 23, 2009 - 07:16pm PT
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The ultimate CD rack would need some Sumac inlaid for those special occasions.
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TradIsGood
Chalkless climber
the Gunks end of the country
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Jan 23, 2009 - 07:42pm PT
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Several people mentioned router.
But if you are looking to spend a lot of time to quit smoking, bag the router and use wood chisels. They take way longer than a router.
And it is TRAD!
Have fun. Post pics.
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Anastasia
climber
Not here
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Jan 23, 2009 - 08:01pm PT
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Dovetails are joints. It is when you cut the wood to fit together like puzzle pieces. If done right they are very nice looking. I didn't bother since I don't have access to a scroll saw. I only have access to a table saw and it's freaky enough using it for basic cuts.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 23, 2009 - 08:17pm PT
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Wow, I'm glad I started this thread, lots of good info.
I will do a TR when I get the materials rounded up. I talked to my buddy with the 'gear' who's both a motorhead and a wood-craftsman. He says the place I had in mind for lumber was a chosspile, Southern Lumber is the place, as suggested earlier.
Sweet!
I like the Trad idea too, but I dunno, we'll see. Dovetails sound like the way to go, that's kinda what I was thinking but didn't know the lingo.
Bluey, a 5.6 Trad woodworker...lot's of shiny new tools.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 8, 2009 - 09:13pm PT
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Game on, now!
I just did a half-day crash course in routing at my buddy's house. I'm ready to start rippin' wood...after I score my materials. It's looking like Red Oak, about 9$ a linear foot in 3/4". The African Mahogony is 43$ a linear foot!!!!
TR to come,,,
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dmalloy
Trad climber
eastside
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I say "good on ya, mate" for -
deciding to bag that cheap, mass-produced crap
learning a new craft and trying to do it the smart way
following through on your plan
and most of all, quitting smoking (how's that going?)
Looking forward to the TR....
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tom woods
Gym climber
Bishop, CA
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Strider has good advice. Glue- wet rag to cleanup the excess. It's easy and makes a huge difference when it comes time to finish.
My suggestion for wood? Knotty pine. 1x12 Knotty pine is cheap, and if you sit there and work through the piles of lumber, you can find straight pieces with actually few knots.
If you put a simple clear verathane on it, it starts out almost white, then in two three years turns yellowish, and within 6 or so years turns a smokey golden color. A very cheap way to make nice shelves.
Also, I'd say beg borrow or buy a router to rabbit out the slots for the shelves. Then you can glue and clamp, or glue and weight if you don't have enough pipe clamps.
A more expensive version is clear fir, more pinks and reds, until the color changes. You can always stain any of these woods, but I like to see the material.
Tom
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Reilly
Mountain climber
Monrovia, CA
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Bluey,
$9 for red oak is a super ripoff! I pay about $3! I can get you Peruvian Mahogany, the real deal ('African' is not a true mahogany), for under $10!
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Whatever else you do, if you're using any kind of power machinery, ALWAYS use ear protection!!!111
And no, an Ipod Nano turned to 11 doesn't count as ear protection.
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Jay Wood
Trad climber
Fairfax, CA
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Keep shelf spans to around 30". A 40" wide piece will have 20" span shelves- maybe a bit awkward.
If you use plywood, make the units 32" wide. Three pieces come out of the 8' panel length with no waste. One sheet of plywood will make a 12" deep unit 32" wide with six shelves (including top and bottom), i.e. 5-6' tall with five 10-12" high shelves.
Oak is hard, and more time consuming to work, as well as expensive. I second the idea of using pine, or hardwood plywood, for a first project. Another option is poplar- slightly harder than pine, stable, available as dimensioned boards, relatively inexpensive, but color is not the best. Most hardwood won't be readily available 12" wide, so would have to be glued up- more work, more clamps, need a jointer, etc..
Just the flat stock for the above shelf example would be 36 bf +. At $9/ft, that is over $300. At $3/ft, it is over $100. A sheet of hardwood plywood is around $50.
Plugged screws are a good way to get a finished look without needing a lot of clamps or pneumatic tools.
Have fun!
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 14, 2009 - 04:56pm PT
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Oh man, I just scored the side/top 3/4" sections. It was $24 for 2x6.5' and 2x3.5' sections! The clamp I bought cost more.
I'm thinking it's because they were 'chopped' pieces from another larger piece, but they're perfect for my designs. Nice patterns in the oak too. Kick ass!!!!
I'll start the TR soon now that I have material and tools.
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tom woods
Gym climber
Bishop, CA
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Feb 14, 2009 - 05:35pm PT
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let us know how it goes
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Topic Author's Reply - Feb 14, 2009 - 05:51pm PT
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Okay, feel free to comment and criticise in a helpful manner.
The workspace...look at the woodgrain on the right-hand pieces...sweet!
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Reilly
Mountain climber
Monrovia, CA
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Feb 14, 2009 - 06:11pm PT
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All I have to say is, MOVE THE AXE!
Looks like ya got it goin' on bluey, we await the TR.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 19, 2009 - 11:40pm PT
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bump
(bwaaahhhaahahahha!!!)
Actually I moved the work-area into the garage from the enclosed patio. The bookcase project hasn't really started yet.
I was layin' down a foundation for great work before the project.
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drljefe
climber
Old Pueblo, AZ
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Mar 19, 2009 - 11:58pm PT
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Dude, the man cave needs some help!!!
Leopard print training wall with dog bed sketch pad. Classic!
Excellent job on the panelling, very professional.
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Ricky D
Trad climber
Sierra Westside
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Mar 20, 2009 - 12:01am PT
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I'm thinking that with the wood paneling vibe that what Blue needs are some Elvis-on-Black-Velvet paintings on the walls.
Sounds like a trip to Olivera Street is called for.
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Zander
Trad climber
Berkeley
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Mar 20, 2009 - 12:08am PT
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"The bookcase project hasn't really started yet."
Wimp! Start cutting some wood.
Zee Wood
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 20, 2009 - 12:12am PT
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Zander I had to build a new bench first and had to do some routing practice by making a slotted drawer.
That's done.
The wife wants a childproof outdoor garden chemicals-type cabinet. That will be done tomorrow, I swear.
After that it's the bookcase.
Edit: Yeah, tiger 'climbing wall' was actually purchased from my German bud before he went back to Germany. He gave me the whole rig for 50 bucks!
Cool guy.
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pip the dog
Mountain climber
planet dogboy
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Mar 20, 2009 - 12:26am PT
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i just found this thread and am diggin it. much quality advice.
i especially like Dingus' post [Jan 23, 2009, 01:10pm PT]
to wit:
> If you're going to go to the trouble of making it by hand
> Bluey, find some awesome wood to work with.
amen. i learned this (the hard way) with both early attempts at furniture and my first attempt at rebuilding a car with a blown engine (and hence save thousands).
bought an '81 mazda 626 (one of the very few RWD rice burners, ever) in very good shape but with a seized engine. i spent endless, truly endless, hours taking it apart into teeny pieces then putting it back together. lucky for me i had an elderly neighbor who was a master machinist andd mechanic (the real thing) -- else i would have ripped both my arms off and never finished it.
i worked hard at it -- it became an obsession every weekend for many months. and finally got it 'just so'. and in the ended up with ... a mazda. oopsy. next time i went at a bmw 320i with a blown engine. better idea.
~~~
DMT,
> My Pop had a great idea - this is a tad tougher on the west
> coast (not enough old buildings). He bought a shitload of old > pew boards from an old church that was getting torn down.
even on the left coast, this can be done. but word is out and it is getting competitive. find some old guys 'in the know' and wake up early on saturday and buy them all the pie and coffee they can swallow.
my grandfather who raised me was a master cabinetmaker -- the real thing, from rural ireland where it took 15 years of 70/hr weeks to be even considered for that formal title (and even with that, most didn't get it).
his rule for me when i was a twerp working in his shop was that i was not allowed to do anything with a power tool until i could first do it with hand tools. hated it at the time, i genuflect when i think of it now.
so i say forget the power tools. your cabinets will look great, and you can take genuine pride in them -- and you'll have them done by about 2017.
if you were to allow yourself just one power tool, get a quality EVS router of about 2.5hp and make a stout and square router table for it. you can do anything with that set up.
~~~
Strider was right: think jigs. sketch jigs. dream jigs. the right jig makes the impossible suddenly easy (and makes you feel like a fookin' genius).
Tolman (who i almost always agree with) was, OTOH, with respect, ALL WRONG on McBeath Hardwoods in Berkley. the managers there are complete scumbags. if i wasn't the law-abiding and morally sound guy i am, i'd have burned that place down long ago. avoid that outfit at all costs.
~~~
DMT,
> My brother made some movable bookcases and then couldn't get
> them out the damn door hahahahahahah!
yeah, i made a drift boat in a buddy's basement one long MT winter, many years ago. word is, it's still there...
~~~
a final thought. my grandfather used to say "if there is a nail or a screw in it, it isn't woodworking -- it's carpentry."
fwiw,
^,,^
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 20, 2009 - 12:32am PT
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pip, yeah, the drawer I made is screw/nail free, and the bookcase will be too.
The outdoor patio one is 'screwed' sides. Glued top, bottom.
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pip the dog
Mountain climber
planet dogboy
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Mar 20, 2009 - 12:45am PT
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bluering,
> pip, yeah, the drawer I made is screw/nail free, and
> the bookcase will be too.
Saint Jamesy Ruddy of Galway is surely smiling upon you.
^,,^
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Topic Author's Reply - May 19, 2009 - 06:52pm PT
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Update...workshop (shelves on the bench ready for linseed/beeswax oil rub). That's the 1/4" Mahogany back on the right side of the pic.
Here are my sides with the top/bottom in the front too.
Question; I f*#ked up and had to cut to different shelf spacings. How do I make it look like a non-accident and instead, decorative. I was thing of putting a darker--stained piece of wood (removable) in the unused shelf slots. What do y'all think? After the shelves go in, there will be removable molding that holds the shelves in, another dilemma, best way to make them easily adjustable.
This is the finish I chose... http://www.triedandtruewoodfinish.com/owf.htm
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Topic Author's Reply - May 19, 2009 - 07:40pm PT
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Warbler, I'm going with the Dado style shelves obviously...they're cut already! The shelves will be mostly permanent. I plan on having shelves adjustable to accomodate newer books that won't fit existing genre. Some shelves will be history, some fiction, climbing books, etc... Sometimes you get a classic climbing book that's 13" and my shelves are roughly 12" spaced. The bottom-most shelf will be an enclose cabinet.
I plan on having 10"x1/2" shaped, colored, decorative inserts for the unused shelf rails. I'll use molding to hold everthing in place from sliding out...maybe. Maybe something that picks up a brace from the sides that is fixed by a removable wooden latch or plug.
It's hard to describe my thoughts w/o pics....
Ikea is plywood for yuppies. I was trying to do better with quality materials.
Lemme try to sketch something up of what I'm thinking...
You could fill your dados with contrasting hardwood and epoxy and sand them flush. The hole pattern might not harmonize with what you've already cut though, and you might have to cut and fill some more to make it look right. You could cut and fill some dados in the shelves the same way with the detail showing on the outer edge.
I think that's what I'm talking about. I don't have all the lingo down yet.
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