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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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Topic Author's Original Post - Jan 18, 2009 - 01:00pm PT
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and had to "walk the line".
Peggy and I were leaving a birthday party last night when I got pulled over.
I had a headlight out and the cop had no chance to see me drive. I pulled into a nearby parking lot and gave him my information. He told me about the light but never got closer than three feet to my window. Peggy had opened the window on her side and a cold wind was blowing through the car.
The officer went back to check my information. He came back and told me everything looked good and asked if I had been drinking. I told him that I had had two beers. He stated that when he had approached the car that he had smelled alcohol. Of course, at the party we had drank a bit although not a whole hell of a lot. I was in no way feeling tipsy. He asked me to get out of the car and take a drunk test. I agreed and got out.
We did the eye thing and then I had to walk the line for nine steps, counting them, heel to toe, turn around and do it again. No problem. Don't forget it was cold and windy and about 10PM. I then stood on one foot to my own count of 18 before he told me to stop. Then I blew into a gizmo and got a .40 reading.
Anyway, he said I was not drunk and I could drive on.
My question is:
Is it better to always deny drinking? especially when he says he stopped me for a dead headlight? He had no time to watch me drive.
When he said that he smelled alcohol, is it better to tell him that he must be wrong since we haven't been drinking?
Does that get me in trouble when I then blow .40?
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SteveW
Trad climber
The state of confusion
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Jan 18, 2009 - 01:03pm PT
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I can't answer your question, Mark, but blowing a .4
is scary.
I'm glad you got off (aside from the headlight thingy).
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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Jan 18, 2009 - 01:06pm PT
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You had 40% blood alcohol?
I think you mean, .o4 ---
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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 18, 2009 - 01:09pm PT
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He flashed the gizmo to me, I thought it said .40. It was dark and I was nervous. It may have shown .04
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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 18, 2009 - 01:13pm PT
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It must have been .04 then.
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Dr. Rock
Ice climber
http://tinyurl.com/4oa5br
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Jan 18, 2009 - 01:15pm PT
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It's a 50-50 crap shoot.
Some cops absolutely hate it when you lie to them, these are the guys you admit to having a few, even though it is terrible evidence for a jury to hear back in court on a Monday morning.
Other cops are a little different, they are afraid if they do not have enough evidence that they will look bad in court.
After all, pulling a guy in on a deuce is a biggy to these guys, major props back at the station, as there odds are 1 in 2000 that they hook up with you.
These are the cops where you deny everything.
If you do a good test, then you will drive off.
If you get him curious about further testing with the "had a few" bait, he might want to take you down, especially since your wife could drive the car and he would feel like he was giving you a deal by not making you pay 300 to get your car out.
Figuring out which cop you have, while you are wasted, is a tough one to pull off.
The trick is to be so wasted that any breath or curb side test is meaningless.
I got a friend who just gets in the back of the patrol car every time and says, "I'm totally wasted, lets roll."
Sometimes they let him walk he is so pathetic and smells bad.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jan 18, 2009 - 01:18pm PT
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An accurate blood alcohol reading of 0.40 would for most of us mean coma or death, as it would result from drinking enormous quantities of alcohol. So it was probably 0.04, which is consistent with having drunk two or three (U.S.) beer over several hours for an otherwise normal male of average size.
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Dr. Rock
Ice climber
http://tinyurl.com/4oa5br
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Jan 18, 2009 - 01:24pm PT
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You can buy your own "First Alert" breath tester.
Many types, one even plugs into your I-Phone.
keep a pack of Marboro's in your car if you are a driving stink bomb.
You don't have to smoke it, just light it.
To some cops, it's like Mosquito Repelent.
To others, a sign that you have been drinking.
Another50-50 shootout.
And check you lights before you drive off if you have been drinking.
Replace all bulbs after ten years.
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Chaz
Trad climber
Boss Angeles
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Jan 18, 2009 - 01:30pm PT
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The first bar I worked (1984) had introduced a coin-operated breathalizer, between the juke-box and the cigarette machine, intended to be used to determine if someone was OK to drive.
Instead, most of the use it got was in competitions to see who could get the drunkest.
".16? Damn! Dave, make my next one a double!"
At first I thought it would kill business, giving folks an excuse not to have another drink, but it did just the opposite.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Jan 18, 2009 - 01:31pm PT
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I know a couple guys (now top executives, but this was BITD)
They used to drink to much, and when one would get pulled over, the other one would say "Take em to jail officer, he's drunk!!!"
Somehow that reverse psychology got them off, but I wouldn't recommend it.
Peace
karl
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Rankin
climber
Bishop, CA
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Jan 18, 2009 - 01:33pm PT
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I did the road side Olympics once about ten years ago. I knew I was fine, I'd had one light beer over a couple hours. The officer seemed to think I was nervous, because I was. I got sick of the games, so I said 'Let's take the breathalyzer, officer', and he backed off. This experience taught me two things: one, don't drive if you think you can't pass the breathalyzer test, and two, if the officer asks you if you have been drinking, tell the truth and tell him you will 'blow' (and I'm not talking about sexually). I bet they will back off 9 times out of ten.
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scooter
climber
fist clamp
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Jan 18, 2009 - 01:50pm PT
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D#@&%e! is probably how you clean 'yourself'.
Touche! is probably what you were looking for.
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Dr. Rock
Ice climber
http://tinyurl.com/4oa5br
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Jan 18, 2009 - 01:51pm PT
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For me, they have to call the Canine Unit and those dogs are expensive, you better have a good bust on your hands otherwise the Chief is gonna be pissed.
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Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
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Jan 18, 2009 - 01:59pm PT
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I bought this breathalyzer for $189.00 (it's since been reduced to $179.00), and it is
by far the best personal breathalyzer I've come across:
http://www.amazon.com/AlcoHawk-PT500-AlcoHAWK-Breathalyzer/dp/B001EHFBV6
What's great about this unit is it's the first consumer breathalyzer that uses fuel-cell
technology, which was previously available in professional units costing $500.00 or more.
When I use this thing, the results are always within a few thousands of 1 percent, for example,
let's say 3 tests @ 0.56, 0.58, 0.53, ect. The highest percentage I have tested so far was 0.11,
and I felt absolutely obliterated, and would never have considered driving. Even when I've
been at 0.8, I felt pretty buzzed, and in no way felt I was fit to drive. However, as the body
generally eliminates approximately 0.2 per hour, I could be at 0.6, which while still risky,
it's under the limit, and for the short back-road drive home, seemed OK (I'm knott gonna
get on the highway at 0.6; too close for comfort).
Here are some things for fellow boozers to keep in mind:
1. First and foremost, you MUST wait 15 minutes after your last sip of alcohol to use the breathalyzer,
for it takes that long for the mouth-alcohol to dissipate.
2. It can take anywhere from 45 minutes to 2 hours for a drink to reach peak alcohol levels
in the body, due to a variety of factors.
3. Never drink and drive!!!!!!!!!!!1111
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jan 18, 2009 - 02:11pm PT
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"When I use this thing, the results are always within a few thousands of 1 percent, for example, let's say 3 tests @ 0.56, 0.58, 0.53, ect. The highest percentage I have tested so far was 0.11, and I felt absolutely obliterated, and would never have considered driving. Even when I've been at 0.8, I felt pretty buzzed, and in no way felt I was fit to drive. However, as the body generally eliminates approximately 0.2 per hour, I could be at 0.6, which while still risky, it's under the limit, and for the short back-road drive home, seemed OK (I'm knott gonna get on the highway at 0.6; too close for comfort)."
Did you mean 0.056, 0.058, 0.053, 0.11, 0.08, 0.02, and 0.06?
Your self-test gadget sounds quite accurate, if it measures thousandths, e.g. 0.056. Quite helpful - the police units also do so, although they tend not to rely on them at that level.
The wording in Canada's criminal code is "having consumed alcohol in such a quantity that the concentration in the person’s blood exceeds eighty milligrams of alcohol in one hundred millilitres of blood" = 0.08 on a breathalyzer.
I read somewhere that they've done surveys of drivers on the road late on Friday and Saturday nights. Most have been drinking, and a significant proportion are legally impaired. So even if you're ok to drive, a lot of the people you see aren't.
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Dick_Lugar
Trad climber
Indiana (the other Mideast)
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Jan 18, 2009 - 02:14pm PT
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Looks like we need to conduct a "significant digits" review for our fellow Supertopians!
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Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
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Jan 18, 2009 - 02:26pm PT
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MIghty Hiker - you're right. It IS thousands of one percent, but I forgot the second zero.
In fact, I just tested myself, and blew a 0.000 (four digit readout).
Fun trivia: On New Years day, I woke up at 9:15 am, after having crashed around 2:30 am.
I blew a 0.05, so if I eliminated 0.02 per hour, means I must have been around 0.17 (!!!!!!!!!!!!1111)
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
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Jan 18, 2009 - 02:37pm PT
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Don't walk the line, stand on one foot or do any of those other roadside drunk tests. Those just give the officer a chance to arrest you for being intoxicated even if you are within the legal limit. He can say you were wobbly and its his word against yours. Instead, politely tell the officer that you are not drunk but that you if he likes you are glad to take a blood test.
In California you have a choice between taking a breathalyzer and a blood test. The officer can't administer the blood test on the spot, you'll have to go to the station or a clinic, or someone able to administer it will have to come out. This gives more time for your the alcohol to get washed out of your system.
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Hardluck
Social climber
N of Mexico, S of Sanity
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Jan 18, 2009 - 02:43pm PT
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I was pulled over for the first time 15 years ago in Seattle on my way home from the Big Time Brewery and Alehouse. I was buzzed, but not "big time." Anyway, I was truthful with the ociffer about the number of beers I had consumed and he immediately produced the breathalyzer. I proceded to blow a .08 (the legal limit was .09 in Washington at the time; .1 got you a nap in the local jail). He said nothing, showed me the digital display and I muttered "See, I didn't think I was drunk."
At that point he gave me "the stare" and I knew I wasn't out of the woods yet. He was considering whether to have me do the "field sobriety test" dance. You can be charged with and convicted of DUI even if your blood alchohol content is below the legal limit. The DUI and BAC charges are separate in most states, though a BAC violation usually creates a rebuttable presumtion that you were "under the influence" at the time.
I'm not sure why he didn't make me dance that night. It probably helped that I had my bride-to-be in the car with me, that we were only a few miles from her parents' home, and that I was driving my father-in-law-to-be's Jeep---all of which I blurted out while I was getting the stare down. Maybe the key lay in the fact that I had pulled over on a bridge with a very narrow shoulder. Whatever the reason, he sent me on my way that night. Washington changed its BAC level to the now standard .08 a few years later.
I was pulled over earlier this year after a few hours at the Old Baldy Brewery in Upland, CA. Now old and balding, "I can't believe this," I thought to myself as I reached for the glovebox. I was slightly buzzed, and I should know better than to drive with a even a very slight buzz on (not for the sake of my driving record, but for the sake of my family and those with whom I'm sharing the road). After running my license, the ociffer approached and asked me where I had been that evening. Ommitting the last couple of of hours, I told him I was coming home from the climbing gym. I lifted the harness in my front seat and shook it to make my case. The Gri Gri on the belay loop rattled merrily. Once again, I got "the stare." Luckily, we were both thinking the same thing---"this guy is to old for this kind of sh!t."
In fifteen years of DUI-free driving I have not come to a concusion as to this question: whether to lie or tell the truth when pulled over. However, I have come to many conclusions about what is important to me and my wife, a light drinker, drives us home after most festivities now.
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Chaz
Trad climber
Boss Angeles
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Jan 18, 2009 - 02:46pm PT
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As far as balance and coordination tests, we have a better chance than most public drunks have of passing them, even if we have had a few.
And if you can't pass a balance test, having climbing / slacklining experience, it's a good thing you're taken off the road - for your own safety if nothing else.
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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 18, 2009 - 02:50pm PT
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I was telling myself that I was a climber and had good balance while I was doing it!
I'll bet you a hundred bucks your average everyday obese sit on the couch all day fat person would have a hard time standing on one foot for an 18 count or walking a line for nine steps.
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Jim Wilcox
Boulder climber
Santa Barbara
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Jan 18, 2009 - 03:12pm PT
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Well,
Down the line(so to speak) if things go badly your lawyer woulda probably preferred you hadn't admitted to anything.
Everthing you say will most definitely be used against you, as needed. (least in my case it was)
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atchafalaya
climber
Babylon
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Jan 18, 2009 - 03:13pm PT
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Judge Best passed away in 2003.
Good job on the fst's. In CA, you dont have to be .08 to be arrested for DUI. See, Veh. Code section 23152 (a) and (b). You could have been arrested for .04. The officer sounds like a good one.
There are benefits to a breath test instead of blood. Blood is more accurate, but can be retested later. There is a .02 margin of error with the Intoxilyzer 5000 breath test, and the jury instructions require the jury to give the defendant the benefit of the doubt, which would lower your BA by .02, helping to keep you from being convicted of the .08 charge.
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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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Jan 18, 2009 - 03:14pm PT
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hey Mark, in other words you weren't drinking HR coffee!
A friend of mine had a very bad experience with a HR cop. He was pulled over one evening. He had had one beer, but looked pretty wild from being out in the woods. He told the officer he had one beer and was probably pretty impatient with the cop. He passed the breathalizer and sobriety tests and was not even close to the limit, but they still arrested him for DUI as the police officier can say that he believes you have been affected and are under the influence even though you have passed all the tests including the breathalizer. They charged him, he had to get a lawyer. The PA dropped the case after viewing the police station tapes. So sobriety and sobriety tests have nothing to do with whether they can charge you anymore although I am sure they play a big part. Sounds like something that comes under Bushs new "Homeland security changes". Anyway, my thought is best to be upfront and courteous with the police officer since they can now charge you for DUI no matter how much you have had to drink.
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andanother
climber
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Jan 18, 2009 - 03:21pm PT
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There's some great advice in this thread.
When I'm out actively endangering the lives of innocent people, I like to be aware of my rights, and all the little tricks of the trade. And I just HATE getting caught.
Stupid f*#kin pigs. They're all just on a power trip. Who the f*#k are they to tell me I can't drink and drive? If I want to kill people, I should be allowed to!
Thanks to everyone here for helping me get away with being a potential murderer. I can't stand being held accountable for my own actions.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
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Jan 18, 2009 - 03:30pm PT
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atchafalaya, if you were pulled over, would you go with a breathalyzer then instead of asking for a blood test? Also would you walk the line if asked?
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GhoulweJ
Trad climber
Sacramento, CA
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Jan 18, 2009 - 03:46pm PT
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Hudon is a Ghoulwe.
That alone says you were probably DUI.
I say based on Ghoulwe standards, it read .40
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Jan 18, 2009 - 03:51pm PT
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Hardman Knott says:
never drink and drive
Word
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orange crush
Boulder climber
ca
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Jan 18, 2009 - 04:19pm PT
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when asked if you have been drinking the correct answer is,
"why? is there a fat chick in the backseat?"
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atchafalaya
climber
Babylon
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Jan 18, 2009 - 04:23pm PT
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GC, unfortunately, there is no easy answer. It would depend on how much I drank and when, and over what period of time.
There is something called a rising blood alcohol defense, that exists when your PAS (preliminary alcohol screening device test, given roadside) is lower than your subsequent breath or blood test. You would have to take the pas and fsts to have the defense.
It occurs when someone "bottom's up" their drink at the bar, gets behind the wheel, gets pulled over, and the officer smells alcohol and starts FSTs (field sobriety tests). You can argue that the pas reading is the accurate reading, since it shows BA level at the time of driving, or close to it, and the subsequent breath or blood, which is much higher should not be used to show that you were .08 or higher at the time of driving. Toxicologists will testify that you can absorb all the alcohol in your stomach in 45 minutes.
Like I said earlier, that doesnt matter if they prosecute you for DUI based on impairment, and not .08 or higher. A .04, plus bad driving, plus failed fsts are good enough to convict for DUI under the statute. The standard required to convict is that the DA must prove you drank alcohol and were "impaired to an appreciable degree."
If it was me, I would always be respectful and nice to the officer, be honest about alcohol consumption, take the pas and fsts, and let the chips fall where they may, as I had made the decision to drink and drive. And hope for a rising defense...
If I thought I was below .08, 1 to 3 drinks over a couple hours, I would breath test, as then I would get the benefit of the .02 margin of error. Blood testing is more accurate and .08 would mean .08. A .08 breath would have to be interpreted as possibly .06, raising reasonable doubt about you violating the .08 criminal charge.
Difficult decisions to make at the scene of your arrest after drinking...
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malabarista
Trad climber
San Francisco, Ca
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Jan 18, 2009 - 04:34pm PT
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I've never been so drunk that I couldn't juggle 5 balls. This includes being so drunk I couldn't stop seeing double. I've always felt that means I could drive a car safely at nearly any state of inebriation, although I'll not test that theory.
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salad
climber
Escondido
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Jan 18, 2009 - 05:08pm PT
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i say deny.
i got pulled over around 12/20 on highway 280 in near burlinggame. it was about 2pm and i was going to pick up my grandmother inlaw for an xmas party down in los altos.
i was driving my mother in laws clk-something convertable benz. its fast!
i passed two cops on 280 that had someone pulled over so i figgured now was my chance. i pushed her up to 120 mph (briefly) then backed off.
traffic was about 80mph, but i was cruising at 90 after that.
pretty aware of my surroundings, but not enough. by the time i noticed the officer pretty far back he had me.
i had consumed 2 beers that day so i knew i wasnt legally drunk, but at 90+mph I assumed any amount of alcohol could get me in trouble.
he asked about 6 times if i had anything, was i sure, etc etc. i denied all the way. he commented about the cologne smell in the car. it was my irish spring deoderant, i had just gotten out of the shower.
i had to do some tracking tests against his finger but was allowed to remain in the car.
he wrote me a t 75 mph, just got it in the mail the other day... 186 bucks. not bad.
stupid on my part....
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Tan Slacks
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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Jan 18, 2009 - 05:18pm PT
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Well, I am at work right now sitting next to a CHP officer, so I asked him your quwstion.. His immediate response was.. Do not lie. If there is any chance the officer smells anything, you are caught. He hates people who say they have nothing to drink when he can smell it. best bet, tell the truth.
Do not drink and drive. Period
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Jan 18, 2009 - 07:53pm PT
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Here's the thing: If you are legally drunk, it is very little different than a three year old with a loaded gun, swinging it around.....why would I want to facilitate that continuing?
If the orginal poster is simply asking, in essence, "how do I reduce the hassle factor", when he knows he is not drunk, then great.
The answer is, tell the truth.
If you give an officer an answer than he knows is likely a lie (saying that you've had no alcohol, when you smell of alcohol), then they are likely to give you the full-on evaluation with a fine tooth comb....which likely also gives them probably cause to do an exhaustive search of your vehicle. This may take hours, if you are loaded down, and make take a long time to put back together. Police HATE it when people lie to them, and they experience it a lot. When people do that, they may go OUT OF THEIR WAY to make sure that you do not have a nice day, if they are otherwise not particularly busy.
Beyond the original poster:
If they have you blow and you are positive....good. They may likely have saved your life. Or more importantly, my life. I'd just as soon you pile into a tree and improve the gene pool, if you are driving drunk. But you probably won't, and will kill some innocent child.
And I know that's funny, cute, and macho. But you haven't likely lost a friend this way. I have.
If you are not sure, what's the mystery? you shouldn't be driving, even if it IS inconvenient.
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WBraun
climber
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Jan 18, 2009 - 08:09pm PT
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A guy drunk at .30 hit my car and ripped the whole front door off the hinges in the Reeds climbing cliff turnout. He hit and ran. I was just about to exit my vehicle when he hit. If I had exited 2 seconds earlier I would have been dead.
I chased him down holding up the door and calling dispatch on the radio for an intercept. He was so drunk he couldn't even stand up.
He was toast ......
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Mark Hudon
Trad climber
Hood River, OR
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Topic Author's Reply - Jan 18, 2009 - 08:40pm PT
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well, it seems pretty obvious from what I've learned about police tactics today that he was on a fishing expedition. He has every right in the world to ask me anything he wants, I have every right in the world to not answer those questions.
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Sir loin of leisure...
Trad climber
X
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Jan 18, 2009 - 09:17pm PT
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I,m sorry for your car wener, I did'nt think I was that buzzed...
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Jerry Dodrill
climber
Sebastopol, CA
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Jan 18, 2009 - 09:36pm PT
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I got pulled over last night too. The cop didn't like it that I pulled out of a parking space in front of him (he was barely moving) so he pulled me over. Last I checked, it isn't illegal to pull out of a parking space when there is plenty of room, but anyway, he was looking for drunks. I hadn't had a single drop, except for a travel mug full of coffee. He gave me a good questioning, then lectured me about driving slow in town and let me go. I think that even if I had been drinking, he didn't have probable cause to pull me over. The funny thing... just before pulling me over there was a bunch of teenagers beating the crap out of each other in a fight just 30 yards away, in the park. I guess I seemed like more of a threat.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Jan 18, 2009 - 09:41pm PT
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I'll second Ken M's advice. I think I need to add one other bit of advice. If you are arrested for a DUI in the Park, do NOT go to trial unless you are certain you will be acquitted. Cop a plea. If you go to trail and lose, they will give you the maximum sentence.
When I was at the Taft Federal Correctional Institution, I shared a dorm with a climber with a 5.14 lead on his resume (I'm not naming him because I don't know that he would want his identity splashed all over the internet.) He'd been arrested in the Valley for a DUI, and insisted on going to trial. He lost, and was sentenced to six months plus three years supervised release. One of the conditions of that release was a three-year ban on enetering the Park.
The normal sentence in his situation would have been probation for a short period of time, and possibly even a deferred prosecution (where charges would be dropped after community service and a short period of probation.) Admittedly, this case had the complicating factor of involving a driver under age 21, but this sentence was extremely draconian, but was entirely consistent with the judge's sentencing policy.
This is the general policy on federal prosecutions (and please don't blame the current administration. This has been the policy for at least 30 years. The sentencing judge in the case I cite is a Clinton appointee). Many, many defendants who have perfectly valid defenses choose not to exercise their right to a trial because there is such a disparity in sentences. . . a story for another thread.
John
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pissed
Trad climber
Lake Placid NY and Scranton PA
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Jan 18, 2009 - 09:44pm PT
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Some officers use flashlights with breathalyzer sensors built into the light end with a read out on the butt end. If you ever hear a story about an officer "shoving the flashlight in my face" its probably because they are using that type of flashlight. With the rough estimate given by the read out the officer gets a sense of your state. If you are asked to submit to breathalyzer you can request a ride to the hospital for blood tests. Depending on your state, by the time you get a ride from the officer to the hospital, sit in the waiting room and have the blood drawn, you will be back to an acceptable level.
I got pulled over when I should not have been driving once. I turned my air conditioner on high and turned my head (toward the center console as to get my insurance card) as the officer put his flashlight near my face. I guess it worked, he ran my license and let me go.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jan 18, 2009 - 09:49pm PT
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The extra time taken to go for a blood test - if it's an option - will not necessarily result in a lower reading. It depends on the amount and timing of your drinking, how quickly it gets into your bloodstream, and the rate at which it leaves. There are many variables that determine blood alcohol level.
A blood test is generally more accurate than a breathalyzer, but then must be extrapolated backward to the time you were driving.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Jan 18, 2009 - 10:03pm PT
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A few years ago I was doing a ride-along with a cop friend in Vancouver. We saw a guy pull out of a pub parking lot in front of us in a VW beetle. We followed him for a couple of blocks, at a top speed of about 10 mph, as he navigated from one curb to the other and finally ran into a parked camper trailer.
Story first, then the part that's relevant to this thread:
Turned out to be a Tibetan. Drunk, but not obnoxious or falling down. We didn't have a breathalyser in the car, and when we radioed for the BAT-mobile they said they were fully occupied and wouldn't be able to get there for quite a while. So we took him downtown to the station, to one of the little waiting rooms way down in the basement (Not a cell. Actually more like a Doc's examination room.) Had a pleasant chat with him. Told him we were climbers who loved reading about his country. He told us he (and his fellow Tibetans) thought white guys who spent a few weeks in Tibet and then came home and wrote books about the country were full of sh#t.
Anyway, someone finally showed up with a breathalyser and the guy blew way over the line. So Robb wrote him up, and we called a cab for him and he went his way and we hit the streets again.
Now, here's the relevant part: He got a lawyer, pled not guilty, and got off. How? Two things. First, he said that he'd only spent a very short time in the pub, slammed and few beers really fast, and then headed home. So -- according to his lawyer -- at the time we pulled him over, he was still sober. The alcohol hadn't had time to hit his bloodstream in sufficient quantity to impair him. No question that by the time we tested him he was quite drunk, but he wasn't driving then, was he? And the only reason he plowed into the trailer was that he'd noticed a car was following him, and he became so frightened he temporarily lost control. We could have been murderers. Or something.
Second reason he got off is that he was polite and friendly. I don't know all the fine points of the BC driving laws, but I do know that there are various dangerous-driving charges that can be brought regardless of sobriety. If you drive in a way a cop deems dangerous, you're basically f*#ked. There's almost nothing you can do about that one. But since he really had been going so slowly, and since he had been cooperative and polite, and had probably learned a major lesson about drunk driving, Robb decided there were better ways to spend his time that pursuing this case.
Is there a takeaway from this in terms of the OP? I mean, other than "If you drive when you're drunk you're an inconsiderate and dangerous as#@&%e." Well, yeah: Treat the cop that pulls you over with respect. Might or might not save you a ticket, or loss of your car, or time in the slammer, but it sure won't hurt.\
D
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
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Jan 18, 2009 - 10:06pm PT
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"A blood test is generally more accurate than a breathalyzer, but then must be extrapolated backward to the time you were driving."
If it goes to trial, do they really use some forumla to extrapolate backwards to the time you were drinking? So if 40 minutes have gone down and its just under .08, are you still screwed?
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Dr. Rock
Ice climber
http://tinyurl.com/4oa5br
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Jan 18, 2009 - 10:31pm PT
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Cops tend to go on a feeding frenzy during the bad times.
General Funds start to dwindle with the property taxes, layoffs mean competition among the ranks, so who pays the price just when we get laid off and don't have any money which leads to a Bench Warrant?
Of course we do.
Don't ya love The System?
Everybody drinks and drives.
in a world full of criminals, the only sin is getting caught.
The only Crime is Stupidity.
Now I will go bake a blueberry pie.
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Todd Gordon
Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
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Jan 18, 2009 - 10:34pm PT
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I got pulled over on Friday coming home from work....rolled through a stop sign;...now I have a ticket...I am a bad man.......I must pay a fine. I also didn't have my insurance card and I have a cracked windshield.....I am a really bad man...
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Dr. Rock
Ice climber
http://tinyurl.com/4oa5br
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Jan 18, 2009 - 10:39pm PT
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Calif Stop: $189
Traffic School 40 bucks plus 10 dollars for the paperwork at city hall.
Total: $239
So screw the school.
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Chaz
Trad climber
Boss Angeles
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Jan 18, 2009 - 10:43pm PT
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Jesus!
You guys are a bunch of troublemakers.
I haven't been stopped in over 10 years, and only twice in the last 20.
You all are a regular crime wave.
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east side underground
Trad climber
Hilton crk,ca
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Jan 18, 2009 - 10:44pm PT
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never admit or say anything to the man ,he can and WILL use it against you
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Sir loin of leisure...
Trad climber
X
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Jan 18, 2009 - 10:46pm PT
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your lucky you all did'nt get clubbed down like baby seals,or hippies....
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S.Powers
Social climber
Jtree, now in Alaska
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Jan 18, 2009 - 11:06pm PT
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Just a little input from your friendly neighborhood ranger, If you tell me you haven't been drinking and I smell alcohol, I will get really suspicious and run you through the full gambit of tests, I mean you are lying to me and I know it, why are you lying? If you tell me you had two beers, don't say a few, I will investigate it, but if your not drunk you get to have a good night.
If you have been drinking, no matter how much,and you are driving and you get pulled over, you can not be upset (I guess you can, but It's irrational) that an officer run's you through some tests to make sure you are fit to drive.
Notice how many times I used the word YOU its your choice, if you make a bad choice, it's your fault you get a DUI not mine.
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Sir loin of leisure...
Trad climber
X
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Jan 18, 2009 - 11:09pm PT
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guerilla fingna ....don't be the screwdriver...best song in the world...
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east side underground
Trad climber
Hilton crk,ca
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Jan 18, 2009 - 11:10pm PT
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never met a "friendly" neighborhood ranger
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S.Powers
Social climber
Jtree, now in Alaska
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Jan 18, 2009 - 11:12pm PT
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well now you have, nice to E-meet you.
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S.Powers
Social climber
Jtree, now in Alaska
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Jan 18, 2009 - 11:22pm PT
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screwdriver..
Well if I gotta be a tool I'd rather be a screwdriver than a hoe.
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east side underground
Trad climber
Hilton crk,ca
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Jan 18, 2009 - 11:22pm PT
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been working the night shift the last couple of months,have to drive the GAUNTLET of 395 from mammoth to hilton crk late at nite. NEVER DRINK A DROP the MAN is LURKING and would like nothing better than to beat you down. cops,rangers, always friendly when there not on THE JOB.:)
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Sir loin of leisure...
Trad climber
X
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Jan 18, 2009 - 11:29pm PT
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It's a f*#ked up world, but whatca gonna do? don't be the screwdriver when the oppressor turns the screw.....SCREWDRIVER!!!!
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S.Powers
Social climber
Jtree, now in Alaska
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Jan 18, 2009 - 11:30pm PT
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I will drive after one, after that its walking or a cab.
I totally agree with the hypocrisy issue.
Ive grown up a lot.
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ß Î Ø T Ç H
climber
the ground up
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Jan 19, 2009 - 02:35am PT
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Last one for me the officer said he appriciated that I told the truth .. but it was just cuz I did a " california stop " .
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Jan 19, 2009 - 02:39am PT
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The only time I've ever had to do 'the walk' was since I've been in Oregon and it was in the Dalles under pretty much the exact same circumstances and script, only I didn't have to blow (maybe they didn't have them back in '89?). Decades of walking tightrope did hurt either, but I wouldn't want to have to count on that if I really were drunk...
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quartziteflight
climber
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Jan 19, 2009 - 08:59am PT
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The truth is we live in a weak society with too many laws.
Driving drunk shouldn't be a crime. Doing damage to any type of property or personal well being is the real crime.
I know this guy. He's a raging alcoholic. I don't like the dude one bit. He crashed his car into a grandmother who was raising her grandaughter by herself. Killed the grandmother. Got off with 9months in jail. Preventative laws aren't going to stop someone like that. Consequences are.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
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Jan 26, 2009 - 03:38pm PT
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"I know this guy. He's a raging alcoholic. I don't like the dude one bit. He crashed his car into a grandmother who was raising her grandaughter by herself. Killed the grandmother. Got off with 9months in jail. Preventative laws aren't going to stop someone like that. Consequences are."
If people made rational decisions based on potential consequences, nobody would play the lottery.
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Mikep_
Mountain climber
San Francisco
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Jan 26, 2009 - 04:07pm PT
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This is what I got from talking to an ex-cop.
.08 (legal limit in most states) is definitely drunk, high, buzzed...
NEVER say I had 2 beers. Every drunk driver in America says he only had 2 beers.
A question is a question. If he can order you to do something he will. This said, saying no to a cop takes some courage. Be polite and deferential but if he is asking he probably does not have as much probable cause as he'd like.
If you get a bit pissed off, do not move around aggressively, do not get sarcastic, do not even put you hands on your hips (this is legally concidered a fighting stance) What you should do if you are mad is, eat it, shut up and do what you are told. You can regain your manhood later.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
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Jan 26, 2009 - 04:37pm PT
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"NEVER say I had 2 beers. Every drunk driver in America says he only had 2 beers."
Even if you've only had two beers? You're supposed to lie?
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Gorgeous George
Trad climber
Los Angeles, California
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Jan 26, 2009 - 04:51pm PT
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Ok, free legal advice for all my rock climbing companeros, because we've all been there at one time or another.
First, the obvious, if you're going to drink, have a designated driver. Don't f*#k around unless you're honestly going to limit your intake to two beers, glasses of wine, or shots of hard liquor. Unless you're a bear (200 punds or more) that's your limit to stay under the .08 California limit (c0nservative). The cost of defense, fines, court fees, and drunk driving classes is way upwards of $2,000.00 minimum.
Second, do not lie to the cops. That's a separate offense, and an officer who is willing to give you a break will appreciate your honesty, those that don't think you're lying anyway. If you don't pass your f.s.t. or breathe higher than a .08 in the field breathalyzer, your likely to get charged and then those false statements will be used against you.
Third, everyone says they drank only two drinks, and the cops already try to see behind that one. The more important thing is your mannerisms, are you focused, are you slurring your words, are you being belligerent. They are trained to look at your behavior. If you are asked to take the f.s.t., take a deep breath and listen closely to their instructions. The main part of the test is do you follow their instructions. Most people don't, and therein lies their downfall.
Above all, be respectful, courteous, and cooperative. If you have another driver available, you might get lucky and he'll suggest they drive you home.
Did I say don't drive if you've been drinking? That's the only advice worth a sh#t in what I just said.
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jrenee
climber
Boulder, CO
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Jan 26, 2009 - 05:01pm PT
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Stich said: "Never tell the police you were at a party, ever.
Never BLOW into a cop's breathalizer unless you are sure you will BLOW low. Ask to use the one at the ER at a hospital."
And if you're too drunk to remember that, just offer the cop a BLOW job.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Jan 26, 2009 - 05:08pm PT
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Don't drive if you've been smoking (marijuana), either. Or using other drugs, prescription or 'recreational', that may or do affect your ability to drive.
They can still get you for DUI, if your driving and other behaviour provide the legal proof. Whether or not a blood test would be possible or definitive.
And the police know that people dumb enough to smoke marijuana and drive, and who are pulled over for probable cause, probably are in possession of whatever caused them to be impaired. They may or may not prosecute you for the impaired, but will happily prosecute you for possession. A sure winner. Like shooting fish in a barrel, as a police friend once said.
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Alpine Raven
Mountain climber
Eugene, OR
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Jan 26, 2009 - 05:21pm PT
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To answer the original question--DON'T DRINK AND THEN DRIVE.
Last Thursday night a drunk 24 yr. old man (a blood test showed blood-alcohol content at the time of the crash was .21 percent) was driving 70 in a 45 mph zone, ran a ted light, T-boned another vehicle and sent it into a power pole. He survived. In the vehicle he obliterated: he killed a mother and her daughter, he killed another mother and he critically injured her son, and he also killed another girl riding in the car. He killed 4 people and critically injured a young boy now on life support. Worst accident ever in Eugene, OR. Some of the medics and police could hardly stomach it. He pretty much destroyed 3 families because he chose to drink and then get into a 3 ton SUV and drive it 70 mph in town.
Please, don't drink and then "think" you can drive. Ask a friend, take a Taxi...
David
Eugene, Oregon
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Bart Fay
Social climber
Redlands, CA
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Jan 26, 2009 - 05:52pm PT
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FYI. An officer friend commented that he will routinely say that he smells beer/booze.
I guess this make most guilty people react poorly.
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Evel
Trad climber
Nederland
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Jan 26, 2009 - 06:06pm PT
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Just a small tidbit of info re: the officers remark that he "smelled alchohol". Alchohol is an odorless liquid. Might not help ya out on the scene, but in court the statement is inadmissable. (As an EMT-P for many years, I've always documented an odor of "alchoholic beverage".) Hopefully with our change in leadership will also come a change in police harrassment tactics. Let's all be safe out there!
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