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poop_tube
Big Wall climber
33° 45' N 117° 52' W
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Topic Author's Original Post - Nov 25, 2008 - 02:14pm PT
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Hey hommies. Wanted to get an idea of some of your favorite cameras to take with you while you are climbing. Any problems with the battery freezing in extremely low temps? I have an Olympus Stylus. The picture quality is just ok, but it is weather resistant and has been through an insane amount of abuse. What do you all use?
Cheers!
Kia
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Nov 25, 2008 - 02:24pm PT
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I had a Stylus but when it died got a Canon SD 550, which took much better pics and also took more abuse, being carried in my pocket, with no case, on scores of climbs and hikes. It's getting wonky now after years of heavy use, so ...
Just upgraded this week to a Canon SD 880, I'll find out soon how that goes but with image stabilization, a 4x optical zoom, and 10 megapixels I'm expecting it will outperform the old SD 550. All of these are just pocket point-and-shoots, mind you.
I'm looking over digital SLRs for Christmas, kind of like the Canons there too because they seem to have more dedicated buttons and knobs to do things, instead of relying so much on nested menus. There's an old-timer's reason for you.
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Chaz
Trad climber
So. Cal.
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Nov 25, 2008 - 02:42pm PT
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The new Stylus' aren't all waterproof, or even water resistant for that matter. The 1010 isn't. I found this out after I bought one. Check before you buy, or do what I am doing and learn to be more careful.
My old Olympus Stylus 410 is rugged as hell. It's gotta be five years old and it still works fine, it takes a while to warm up now, however. But it's survived being dropped in the ocean, flown by a kite, and being carried around in my pocket daily.
The kite-camera I use now (the one I hoist aloft with a kite to get aerial pics) is a Pentax W30. WaterPROOF, no exterior moving parts like telescoping lenses, and adjustable enough for my purposes. The Pentax W60 is functionally the same, but 10 m-pix. You can dunk it in a bucket of water and wipe it with a rag to clean it.
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Indianclimber
Trad climber
Lost Wages
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Nov 25, 2008 - 03:23pm PT
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Canon sd800,image stabilizer and viewfinder both great features
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Jerry Dodrill
climber
Sebastopol, CA
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Nov 25, 2008 - 04:22pm PT
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Hmm. I know a couple Chads. From PUC?
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Nov 25, 2008 - 04:27pm PT
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A couple of thoughts. While there are a few (very few) who need to take a professional-level SLR on their climbs, most people -- including the OP, I believe -- want something that will actually aid them in bringing back good photos from their days on the rock. Not photos that will appear in magazines, be used in advertisements, or hang in galleries, but photos they will look forward to sharing with friends and posting on forums like this one.
This means small and light.
I made a good part of my living with a camera a while back, but the only camera I own now wouldn't have been worth considering then. It is, however, small and light, and actually goes with me when I climb instead of being left at home or left in my pack at the base.
In addition to being small and light, I also think a climbing camera should:
Be easily operable with one hand. (Don't you hate looking down and seeing both your belayer's hands on the camera?)
As a corollary to the above, it should be shaped such that a one-handed grip is secure -- ie have a bulge at one end. The bulge is for batteries, but it has the advantage of offering a really solid grip.
Have an eye-level viewfinder. An LCD screen is fine for many things, but it eats batteries and can be really hard to use in bright sun.
You can worry about megapixels and multi-mode programability and all that sh#t if you want, but most cameras now have really high resolution and more features than you'll ever use. But a surprising number of them don't have an eye-level viewfinder or a good grip.
Of course, if you are truly serious about photography and plan to spend a lot of time on fixed lines shooting other people climbing, then ignore all the above.
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Jerry Dodrill
climber
Sebastopol, CA
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Nov 25, 2008 - 04:44pm PT
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Good points Ghost. In an ideal world there is a camera which fits that criteria and can produce high quality images that are publication quality.
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Nov 25, 2008 - 05:11pm PT
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Jerry: I think some of the current point-and-shoots can produce publication-quality images -- under certain circumstances. 10mp will give you what you need in terms of resolution, and if conditions are right, you'll also get the exposure, depth of field, saturation, etc etc.
Needless to say, conditions are hardly ever right, and so until we move into that ideal world we're still faced with having to choose between professional-level equipment and equipment we'll actually carry and use.
Interesting sidebar to this discussion though: Glen Denny was in town a couple of weeks ago, with his "Yosemite in the Sixties" show. Incredible images, that easily handled projection onto a twenty-foot screen. Of course, in the Q&A afterward somebody asked the inevitable "What cameras did you use?" Turned out that many of the shots had been taken with a not-particularly-fancy folding pocket camera.
Kind of reinforces the old story about the cub reporter asking the old pro news photographer for advice on film, cameras, and settings. The answer: "f8 and be there." (Although I'd add something about trying to get good glass,)
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Anastasia
climber
Not here
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Nov 25, 2008 - 05:25pm PT
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I also have a Canon SD800, with image stabilizer and viewfinder. I love how small it is and it's easy to use features. It is not waterproof but you can get a waterproof case for it to handle the pressure of scuba diving.
Mine has gone up mountains, been to Europe, dove off of Catalina and... It has taken some descent night shots. I have nothing to complain about except... Well, I would like a camera that is water proof "without" the case. (That sounds like fun.)
AF
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tooth
Mountain climber
Guam
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Nov 25, 2008 - 05:53pm PT
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yeah, PUC, I work/dive with him.
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Nov 25, 2008 - 06:05pm PT
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Euroford, I read some favorable comparative reviews too before getting the SD 880. The main drawback is that it has no viewfinder, just the screen. Screens can be harder to see in bright light, although the SD 880 has a relatively jumbo screen. I found that I more often unintentionally cropped heads, feet, etc. when using the viewfinder on my old SD 550 anyway, so I was trusting that less.
The SD 880 sure worked cool in my living room last night. Not the acid test, yet.
One accessory that I've learned is worth adding to any digital camera is a $10 screen protector.
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Jerry Dodrill
climber
Sebastopol, CA
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Nov 25, 2008 - 06:30pm PT
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Ghost:
Interesting about Denny. Many of those folding cameras had amazing zeiss lenses so the images are really sharp. Glen's negatives were drum scanned and edited at Color Folio. I worked with Glen to put that presentation together. The images you saw projected were down sized from 100mb to 768 pixels long dimension, at 72dpi. He bought a really great projector, and it all makes for a great show.
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Anguish
Mountain climber
Jackson Hole Wyo.
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Nov 26, 2008 - 04:17pm PT
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Walk softly and carry a sharp lens.
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guido
Trad climber
Santa Cruz
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Nov 26, 2008 - 06:43pm PT
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Canon G9 is a superb camera and I imagine the G10 is that much better.
The G9 has been so good to me that it takes a concentrated effort to pack up the "Big Gun" Nikon D-200 and hit the road. Always worried about theft, damage and weight.
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MH2
climber
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Nov 27, 2008 - 03:53am PT
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I have always wanted a lens with x10 optical zoom. As an early student of The Universe in 40 Steps I figure that gives me maybe not 1,000 times more possible shots, because shots aren't usually distributed equally in the sphere of which I am center, and because you have to allow for the x3 or x4 zoom on most smaller cameras, but nevertheless more, and since on a climb you can't just walk over to the subject I figured I would reel them in with the telephoto.
My figuring was faulty. My set-up can't do macro, which robs me of many interesting bugs, stains, and glistening dewdrops. One of my partners has a little Canon that outdoes my SLR most ways. It does great video and you can hold it out at arm's length pointing back at yourself and get fine pics with you, your partner, and the surrounding wall with great depth of field. A small camera can stay in a pocket close to you away from freezing temps whereas in winter my behemoth will conk out after half an hour or so until re-warmed.
Anyone thinking about getting a camera should start with who the audience is going to be. Usually the audience is you and your partners. And how will they be viewed. 6 megapixels is more than enough for 8x10 prints.
I almost never get prints, though everyone should check to see what can be done with them. I had some 8x12s done this year and the details are worth the cost occasionally.
I like the confluence of image and audio software. My screensaver has 9,941 images at time of post and the playlist is good for around 8 hours and when the 2 are put on shuffle/random the effect is lovely. A display does what a print can't; it shows the scene by transmitted rather than reflected light.
Unfortunately the Windows screensaver starts dropping images after a few thousand or so, not sure whether its the number of folders or number of images. The Mac screensaver sees all the images in all the folders, so far.
Small cameras are definitely better for climbers. The green monster:
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Nov 27, 2008 - 04:49am PT
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SD800 has wide angle and image stabilization and is super small and light. Makes it a good choice for most climbers.
The G10 is much heavier but has much better quality. Go see MR rave about it on luminouslandscape.com. It's a serious pro quality machine in good light
The sd880 looks great. Disappointed at not having an optical view finder but...
peace
Karl
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Roger Brown
climber
Oceano, California
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Nov 27, 2008 - 09:53am PT
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Canon SD850. Great!!
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kevsteele
climber
Santa Barbara, CA
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Nov 27, 2008 - 10:15am PT
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Have the G9 - great durable point and shoot, I've glued on the third party metal grip to make it easier to one-hand and added a metal lens barrel to protect it when swung against the rock/rack when on and the lens is extended.
Great thing about the new G10 is the lens extends wide to 28mm as opposed to 35mm on the G9. However neither is great for low light and the G10 with so many (small) packed pixels has noise above ISO 800.
On walls I will carry the big SLR guns but the G9 is always in my "pocket".
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Captain...or Skully
Social climber
Where are YOU from?
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Nov 28, 2008 - 01:53pm PT
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I'm running a Canon A620. It's 7.1 megapixels..I like it a lot.
Knott the top o' the line or anything, but it takes good pix.
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Nov 28, 2008 - 02:50pm PT
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Okay I am looking at a Nikon D80 DSLR 18-135 lens for €800 ($1,037 at €1:$1.29 rate) or D90 18-105 €854 ($1,107).
Or the Canon EOS 1000D for €650 ($838) or the EOS 450d for 900 ($1,161)
However these may be more than I need, but I just like SLR cameras.
There is also the Fujifilm Finepix SLRs, the S1000fd for €220 ($285), or the S9600 €400 ($516), or the S8100 for €300 ($390). But these have ‘fixed’ lenses and not bayonettes ones like the Nikons or Canons, but they are small and seem like they could be operated with one hand no problem while belaying.
For ‘point and shoot’ compacts I was thinking the Canon IXUS 860 IS for €270 ($350) of the IXUS 980 for €459 ($595), but it appears tht the G9/G10 are popular with posters to this thread, likewise the SD 550 and SD 880 (but it has no optical viewfinder).
I am sure that all of these cameras and the others mentioned on the thread are very good, but I am looking at ability, cost, and durability.
I include dollar prices along with euro because I will be back home in California from December 15-31 and perhaps I can get better prices over there. What is a good camera shop in the Bay Area (SF or East Bay preferably)?
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Nov 29, 2008 - 10:21am PT
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bump for possible advice
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Nov 29, 2008 - 01:12pm PT
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bump for possible advice
What will you be using them for?
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nick d
Trad climber
nm
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Nov 29, 2008 - 03:00pm PT
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I have a Canon SD-900 that I like a lot. It is compact enough to carry on the lead, I clip it on the rack and leash it to the case. It has a metal (titanium!) shell, optical viewfinder and 10 megapixel resolution. I like the metal shell, I figured it would make it a lot more durable, but in reality it still has a big piece of glass on the back. But metal is groovey, what can I say! 3X zoom, roughly 35mm at the wide. It has the electronic zoom to go 10X or something, but I never use it. I figure the quality of those shots are no good, especially handheld.
The screen is 2.5 inches across and is so bright that I hardly ever have to use the optical finder. It's certainly not an SLR but I carry it all the time, which is not something I could say about my SLR's. It also can accept memory cards of greater than 2 gig capacity. I only have a 2 gig card, but even at top resolution thats still 500 pictures or so.
It was pricey, I think with the card I spent close to $500, but I have been quite pleased. Mine is 1 1/2 years old, no problems so far. The picture quality is very good!
(handheld, last spring, size and quality reduced for posting)
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maldaly
Trad climber
Boulder, CO
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Nov 29, 2008 - 05:46pm PT
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poop tube, the more I shoot a telephoto, the more I like wide angle. Especially for climbing. I just find the shots way more interesting and personal. Given, my camera choice would be the Canon Powershot SD 870. Canon does a beautiful job with their P&S cameras and there's little reason to shop other brands unless you need waterproof. Then Olympus is your ticket.
Chiloe, I think that the general consensus on DSLRs is that the Nikons have a much better user interface. Key items are located in buttons, some customizable, and you can keep frequently used menu items in a custom menu at the top level. Canon's have great color and sharpness but have crappy LCDs and a maze-like menu hierarchy. Of course, pro-photographers use both and great photos come out of either brand.
As my daddy used to tell me, "It ain't the arrow, it's the injun".
Patrick, don't get the D80. The camera was a dud, lost in the no-man's land between the D70 and the D200. Save a few bucks or whatever and get the new D90. The reviews rave about it. Or save even more and get the D700. That's going to be my next DSLR.
Everyone post up when you get pics.
Mal
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nick d
Trad climber
nm
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Nov 29, 2008 - 06:13pm PT
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Mal, concur on the wide-angle thing. The lenses I use most on my SLR are the 24 and 17, in that order.
The 35 on my pocket camera is like shooting telephoto compared to those.
I shoot it on full wide almost all the time. Shooting with the zoom requires more stability than you can usually provide hand held.
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Nov 29, 2008 - 06:19pm PT
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Everyone post up when you get pics.
I took a few snapshots with the new SD 880 on Thanksgiving (others posted on the seacliff thread).
Still looking for an SLR, but a pocket PAS is must-have.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Nov 29, 2008 - 06:20pm PT
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I have a Sony cyber-shot DSC-W50. 6.0 megapixel. Pretty basic by the standards of real photographers, but does the job fine for me.
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MH2
climber
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Nov 29, 2008 - 09:33pm PT
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It's great when any knowledgable photographer is chiming in. I operate strictly on a brute force basis, into the 3rd set of 10,000 images on the Canon Rebel bought just last year. I thought the file numbers would just keep incrementing but they go to 9999 and then start over. There is at least one other choice for numbering but I forget what it is.
Anyway, I agree that the most interesting pictures are of people taken close up, of course with some background for context if possible. The best choice of climbing camera for almost all situations is a cigarette pack sized point and shoot. However, the lens which is Jack of many focal lengths and master of none still has a place in my heart. I don't plan ahead for pictures and just take what comes. I like to get a set of about 3 shots that tell a story which just one wouldn't be able to.
Since there was an invitation to post some images, here are three that illustrate what a low-end zoom lens can do. No cropping, just resizes of the original jpeg.
18mm
135mm
200mm
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Nov 30, 2008 - 12:31am PT
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Ghost, general use but hopefully, as (if) I get back more into climbing, it will be outdoors/climbing.
I like the idea of the Fujifilms, they are SLR but quite small compared to other SLRs, and much less expensive. As for durability? I reckon one of them and a P&S (Canon?) would set me back for what one of the more 'sophisticated' SLRs would cost. I am not a professional photographer, but I would like a camera that is capable of print quality reproduction, seeing as I am a journalist.
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Chiloe
Trad climber
Lee, NH
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Nov 30, 2008 - 10:45am PT
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Isn't "What camera for climbing?" kind of like "What shoes for climbing?"
I think we all need a collection of 'em.
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kevsteele
climber
Santa Barbara, CA
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Nov 30, 2008 - 04:32pm PT
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Just out: Panasonic LX-3. Excellent Leica lens at f/2 at 24mm and f/2.8 at 60mm (35mm equivalent). You don't often see that bright a lens in these kind of cameras.
Big advantage over the G9 I carry in my (bulging) pocket is the wider aperture for better low light shots (still want to stay under ISO 800) and the much wider angle. Although it does not get into the tele range as 60mm can be considered "normal". But for climbing it's all about wide.
But now for just about the same price ($450) you can pick up a Nikon D40. Depends whether you need the purpose-built lightweight wide point-and-shoot or the swiss-army-knife DSLR.
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