Discussion Topic |
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Topic Author's Original Post - Nov 21, 2008 - 01:44am PT
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Some one asked when the first use was...
Roper's 1971 guide does not use the word, or its hyphenated version...
Meyer's green guide (1976) does use offwidth
Looking through the AAJ the first use is 1974, by Galen Rowell, who seemed to use it a lot in his AAJ contributions of the time:
"offwidth" in the AAJ, earliest appearance: [url="http://www.americanalpineclub.org/AAJO/pdfs/1978/canada1978_538-554.pdf"]AAJ 1978 p545[/url]
Lotus Flower Tower, Free Ascent. In early August Mark Robinson, Sandy Stewart and I completed the first all-free ascent of the McCarthy- Frost-Bill route on the Lotus Flower Tower during a three-day spell of clear weather. Several days earlier; we spent two days on the wall freeclimbing to the terrace 1400 feet up but retreated in stormy weather. The first 300 feet involved awkward jamming up the wet and dirty dihedral with a difficult section near the top and route-finding problems establishing ourselves in the jam-crack. Climbing the long chimney system which then splits the lower wall was unpleasant, with loose holds, wet and dirty rock and much trash left from previous ascents. The extraordinary climbing on the upper “ski tracks” made up for this. We followed the aid cracks for most of the upper wall, occasionally traversing to either side of them when the climbing became wet or unpleasant. The second overhang was the crux on the upper face. After a steep, 30-foot headwall, the crack widened and turned into hand-jamming and finally, 300 feet higher, to offwidth. One further note: the trash problem is increasing rapidly in the meadows and on the walls themselves in the Cirque of the Unclimbables. There is trash behind every boulder and even in the cracks and chimneys on the Lotus we found large quantities of garbage. All climbers should familiarize themselves with proper trash disposal, the use of latrines and the “pack it in, pack it out” philosophy. We were also greatly distressed at the practices of the Belgian party, for shooting mountain goats and marmots, cutting down trees unnecessarily and incompetent waste removal. The Cirque of the Unclimbables is a magnificent and beautiful area. Please let’s keep it that way.
STEVEN LEVIN, Unaffiliated
In Galen Rowell's [url="http://www.americanalpineclub.org/AAJO/pdfs/1977/rowell_sierra1977_73-81.pdf"]AAJ 1977 p73[/url] "New Ways up Old Walls, High Sierra"
Winter ascent of Mount Conness West Face
"The next morning dawned clear and cold-ten degrees. I tried to free-climb parts of the next pitch in mountain boots with supergaitors, but resorted to aid for more than half the distance. The rock was monolithic and sheer, very much like Yosemite Valley and quite unlike most High Sierra climbing. Dennis and Mike took the next two leads of somewhat easier going. Then came a long crack, tiered with overhangs and widening into off-width climbing near the top. In 1959 the first ascent party did not have pitons wide enough for the off-width and they had placed several bolts next to the crack. These were widely spaced, however, and clearly indicate that considerable F9 climbing was done then at high elevation. Modern #10 and #11 hexcentric nuts make the bolts unnecessary, but I gladly clipped into them for safety. In the cold of winter we were concerned with getting up the route, not climbing it in perfect style. We often grabbed pitons and nuts as handholds."
First Free Ascent of Keeler Needle
"Chris was definitely the most skilled free-climber in our party and shortly after dawn he began the long corner. At first he face-climbed to the right, but after thirty feet he was forced into an off-width crack. The rock was not perfect and the altitude made jamming exceedingly strenuous. Watching from below, we could not appraise how Chris was doing. His motions slowed until he was only gaining an inch with each new positioning of hands and feet. But he wasted no movements; everything was smooth and under perfect control. It seemed that if he fell, that too would have been in perfect control. He didn’t fall; we knew the crux was over when his motions lengthened and he scrambled up to a rest position. The crux was F10-better protected and not as difficult as the one on Mount Conness a month earlier. We were surprised. Keeler was larger than Conness and it had a bolder appearance. We had expected it to be at least as hard."
[url="http://www.americanalpineclub.org/AAJO/pdfs/1974/141_lower48_aaj1974.pdf#search=%22off-width%22"]AAJ 1974 p146[/url]
Mount Hale Pinnacles and Mount Hale, East Face. On the ridge of Mount Hale that extends toward Mount Whitney, before ending above Arctic Lake, there are two very prominent towers separated by a gap of 100 feet. I climbed them in June with a belay from Jeff Campbell. The southerly tower is F6 and the northerly, F8. They are classic needles of monolithic rock that appear vertical from all sides. The east face of Mount Hall, a 1500-foot wall, is a Sierra classic, My first attempt in June with Greg Henzie and Jeff Campbell failed because of difficulty and acclimatization (Hale is 13,440 feet). In July I returned with Dennis Hennek and Dave Lomba. Dave was hit by the altitude on the approach, which crosses a 13,000-foot pass, and he didn’t make the final climb. Dennis and I left very early and soon found ourselves on continuously difficult rock. Five pitches in a row were F8 or harder. A few pitons were used for direct aid on an overhanging off-width crack, but otherwise the climb was free and clean. We tried to climb quickly as possible and reached the summit at 6:30 P.M. The climb is comparable in length and difficulty with the north wall of Sentinel Rock in Yosemite and is rated NCCS V, F9, A3.
GALEN ROWELL
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Social climber
valley center, ca
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Nov 21, 2008 - 01:51am PT
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Well, seriously, I remember reading some WWII magazine ads and the phrase was used in the (very hush, hush) women's undergarment section.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 21, 2008 - 02:09am PT
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Bridwell uses "off-width" in [url="http://home.comcast.net/~e.hartouni/doc/Ignorant.txt"] The Innocent, The Ignorant, And The Insecure; The Rise and Fall of the Yosemite Decimal System[/url] Ascent 1973
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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Nov 21, 2008 - 02:09am PT
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what the heck Lynknee? I'm curious, but afraid to ask.
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Jaybro
Social climber
wuz real!
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Nov 21, 2008 - 02:13am PT
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Just looked for it in Roper, '71. Haven't found it yet. I think it's used in Jim Halfpenny's vedauwoo guidebook in circa '70, but I don't have it at hand.
OT, but related, William Faulkner used the word 'Dreadlock' to describe someone's hair, in, Intruder in the Dust 1948. Was it used before that?
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Jaybro
Social climber
wuz real!
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Nov 21, 2008 - 02:18am PT
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I just googled "Offwidth, earliest use", and the first link was this thread.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Nov 21, 2008 - 02:26am PT
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What about the first use of the term "awful width"?
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Jaybro
Social climber
wuz real!
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Nov 21, 2008 - 02:37am PT
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didn't they used to hang people with an (Anne) Boleyn, on a coil, back then?
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Nov 21, 2008 - 02:38am PT
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Naah, it was the Queen of Hearts in "Through the Looking Glass".
`Idiot!' said the Queen, tossing her head impatiently; and, turning to Alice, she went on, `What's your name, child?'
`My name is Alice, so please your Majesty,' said Alice very politely; but she added, to herself, `Why, they're only a pack of cards, after all. I needn't be afraid of them!'
`And who are THESE?' said the Queen, pointing to the three gardeners who were lying round the rosetree; for, you see, as they were lying on their faces, and the pattern on their backs was the same as the rest of the pack, she could not tell whether they were gardeners, or soldiers, or courtiers, or three of her own children.
`How should I know?' said Alice, surprised at her own courage. `It's no business of MINE.'
The Queen turned crimson with fury, and, after glaring at her for a moment like a wild beast, screamed `Off width her head! Off--'
`Nonsense!' said Alice, very loudly and decidedly, and the Queen was silent.
Any resemblance of any of the characters to say LEB is no doubt purely coincidental.
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Strider
Trad climber
one of god's mountain temples....
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Nov 21, 2008 - 02:58am PT
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I checked some of the older books I have and was not able to find the off width term used.
Pinnacles - Roper, 1966
High Sierra - Roper, 1976
Yosemite - Roper, 1971
Tahquitz/Suicide - Wilts, 1974
-n
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Jaybro
Social climber
wuz real!
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Nov 21, 2008 - 03:01am PT
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If Mr Carroll 'owned' that Queen,...
Wasn't 'Offwidth' used in Advanced Rockcraft? Isn't that the one with a sheridan Anderson cartoon of young Bridwell hanging from a Chicken wing?
Layne Kopischka was the first person I ever heard use the term Chickenwing, btw.
We did a new OW in either '78 or 9 called 'Off in the woods,' ~5.8. It's just past the Nautilus in Vedauwoo. On the formation behind Kevin Rose in that photo of him with his mouth open. The one with the 'eightball' style rock on top. The word "offwidth" was well established by then.
I bet it's never seen a second ascent...
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Nov 21, 2008 - 03:32am PT
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Ed,
> Bridwell uses "off-width" in The Innocent, The Ignorant, And The Insecure; The Rise and Fall of the Yosemite Decimal System 1973
The other version of this article was Brave New World, in Mountain #31, also 1973. I'm not sure which was first.
http://www.stanford.edu/~clint/yos/brave.htm
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grover
Social climber
Canada
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Nov 21, 2008 - 04:25am PT
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Not the first, but an early use in the nord-land.
Stolen from the Squamish Smaill guide 1975.
After a quick scan of the guide I only came across one OW, and they describe it as an "off-size"
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mcreel
climber
Barcelona, Spain
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Nov 21, 2008 - 08:21am PT
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I believe this term was coined when the mosquito man met the elephant woman.
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Jim E
climber
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Nov 21, 2008 - 08:31am PT
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Ed,
I love these sorts of 'factoids' threads.
Your post also got me to wondering about "onsight". The progression is obvious: "on sight", "on-sight", "onsight".
"Onsight" may not be as solidified as "offwidth" yet as I still see all three versions on the web and in print.
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Roger Breedlove
climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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Nov 21, 2008 - 09:45am PT
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Jaybro,
I took a look at Robbins' "Basic Rockcraft." In the short section in which he describes offwidth climbing, he only refers to 'wide cracks,' followed by a section on squeeze chimneys (and the drawing of Bridwell with his chicken wing). I couldn't find any references to climbing techniques in "Advanced Rockcraft." As an aside, those books are still really good primers on climbing techniques. I wonder if they are still in print.
Peter Haan did very early ascents of the really hard offwidths in the late 60s and early 70s. He may remember the specific origins, at least in the Valley.
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Jaybro
Social climber
wuz real!
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Nov 21, 2008 - 10:23am PT
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I can remember laughing, the first time I heard the phrase awful width. Can't remember the circumstances, though.
I remember spewing positivly about offwidths in C-4 once, when a nearby Brit asked,
"When did you have your brain removed?"
Is the word offwidth used in Galen Rowell's Vertical world of yosemite? Does it have those photos of Mr Gleason on 1096? or was that just in the '73 ascent? I don't have the book handy.
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Peter Haan
Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
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Nov 21, 2008 - 10:29am PT
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Hi,
Yeah "offwidth" was a term that just naturally started being a part of our colloquial language about 1971. It doesn't seem to appear in the Green Roper of 1971 but was in common use in Camp by then. Roper wasn't hanging out anymore and probably would not have approved anyway; he is a craven slave to proper english even today (g).
I remember having to explain what it meant frequently back then. Now we also have the term "The Wide" which in a shockingly unlimited fashion is being used by many offcolor characters such The Fish and Ed Hartouni and Steve Moyles, you know, THAT group.
p.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 21, 2008 - 10:29am PT
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Galen's Vertical World of Yosemite published in 1974 contains articles written prior to that date, and features his wonderful images. I don't believe any of those articles use the term "offwidth."
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 21, 2008 - 10:30am PT
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I thought I had my normal "olive" color this morning...
"Glory starts at 4-inches"
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Jaybro
Social climber
wuz real!
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Nov 21, 2008 - 10:33am PT
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Always climb the wide with pride.
But check your ego at the Belay...
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Roger Breedlove
climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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Nov 21, 2008 - 10:33am PT
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Hi Kevin,
I tried to recall when we started referring to 'offwidth' climbs. It seems to me that they were always 'offwidths,' but someone had to start calling them that. Mark, Jim and Peter put up a bunch of hard off-widths in 1971, and it seems to me that we called them 'offwidths,' at the time. My first 'offwidth' was following Peter up the FA of "Secret Storm." I remember being at the crux, struggling, and calling up to Peter, "How did you get up this?" He told me how to do it. I got up it, but I kept thinking that I must be doing something wrong--missing a hold, or turned the wrong way, or something. Peter was so solid on that stuff--must be eaay--that I hadn't even bothered to watch.
I don't recall being the first to call them 'awful widths.' We were always twisting words around to make jokes, and I repeated any goods ones I heard.
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Jaybro
Social climber
wuz real!
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Nov 21, 2008 - 10:40am PT
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"someone had to start calling them that"
, Pratt?
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scuffy b
climber
On the dock in the dark
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Nov 21, 2008 - 10:53am PT
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"a shockingly unlimited fashion"
you know, those guys
I think there's more to come. Thanks, all.
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Roger Breedlove
climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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Nov 21, 2008 - 10:57am PT
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Chuck certainly did them early, but the term "off-width" doesn't sound like him, at least to me.
I can imagine in 1970 when so many new hard cracks were being climbed and discussed in that awful camp we stayed in under Glacier Point, someone would have made the joke. It had to come in the context of clearly defined thin cracks--tips, fingers, rattle-ly hands, hands, fist--and squeeze chimneys to make sense. Since no body part fit, except the distinction of getting your knee in or not, 'off' makes sense. It sounds more like Barry Bates or Bev Johnson or Eric Beck, although Eric was not in the Valley much that year.
I really don't know.
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Alan Rubin
climber
Amherst,MA.
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Nov 21, 2008 - 11:28am PT
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I first climbed in the Valley in '66, and am pretty certain that the term "offwidth' wasn't in general use during that season, I definitely recall it being used when I was there in '72, but despite trying to dig through my foggy brain can't come up with any specific memories of whether or not the term was being used when I was there in '70, so Peter's around '71 sounds right. If I'd have to guess at the original source, I'd bet on The Bird. He liked to categorize things, so it would fit into the "crack spectrum" that Roger referred to. Maybe someone looked into this earlier in the thread, but was the term used in Bridwell's Ascent article introducing "letter grades" in the early '70s?
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Peter Haan
Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
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Nov 21, 2008 - 11:31am PT
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If I had to guess who used the term "offwidth" first it would have to be Bridwell. Pratt was out of there by the late 60's although at the beginning of the 70's he was camping with us a little bit, leisure climbing and being with old friends. I really doubt Chuck started the term. It became part of oral tradition in 1970-71. Regardless, there were a couple years there where we did see offwidths as a category to go after and get done. It was great for me since I have giant fingers and even in great shape weighed 190. By 1973 onwards thin hands and finger crack climbs were the collective focus. And by the time everyone was trying to wear lycra, offwidths were something the help had to do! Or as my old friend Inez referred to as "Blue Collar Climbing". But to be sure, Pratt was truly the Father of Offwidth. And he put up most of the best "wide" we have in the Valley and elsewhere using "technique is your protection" thinking the whole time.
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Jaybro
Social climber
wuz real!
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Nov 21, 2008 - 01:07pm PT
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Hmm? if anyone has a sly wit, it's Bridwell... (Ot, might he have started the climber-pirate thing with the "walk the plank" episode recounted in the P.O. fa account published somewhere or other?) Did 'chalkbag', 'quickdraw' and offwidth all come about the same time? From the same source?
So, as Columbo, Elijah Bailey, Sherlock Holmes, or Porfiry Petrovitch might recount; It looks like the word "Offwidth" seems to have come into colloquial usage, post 1966 and before '72, lots of evidence and accounts point toward, '71, At least in Yosemite. Which seems like a likely place for it to have been hatched.
I still wonder if it was used in Vedauwoo in the early 70's, or by 1970. I will check that halfpenny guide when I can. i know it was in common usage, there, when I arrived in '77. It might have been used in the description of the first ascent of 'Fantasia', on Poland Hill, as recounted in Halfpenny, I just can't recall the wording. If anyone has the Bonney guide to Wyo it would be worth searching through, too.
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Jaybro
Social climber
wuz real!
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Nov 21, 2008 - 02:15pm PT
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etymology of "Brown point"?
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MisterE
Trad climber
My Inner Nut
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Nov 21, 2008 - 04:15pm PT
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Isn't that where you grab the rope, pull on gear, step on gear, and "all that sh!t" ?
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Peter Haan
Trad climber
San Francisco, CA
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Nov 21, 2008 - 06:17pm PT
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Yeah Jayb, we started making quickdraws in 1970-71 also and would have a bunch of them on harder free pitches. Knotted doubled or tripled 9/16” webbing with of course two ovals. We thought we were tricky. Sometimes even preclipped one on our hardware sling to the rope before a crux section. And it was Bridwell’s name. He had tons of names for stuff or frequent word usages as he was tremendously fun and witty. He also knew how to keep a tense or tough situation really fun and seemingly “light”. Look here he is showing us his new bridge on Sea:
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stevep
Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
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Nov 21, 2008 - 07:11pm PT
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Sounds more like something Don Whillans would say. And certainly he had plenty of experience in them.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 21, 2008 - 10:00pm PT
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it seems that by 1971, all the OW grades from 5.9 thru 5.11a had been climbed. Many of the ≥5.10a climbs were put up by the Bridwell group... and in a systematic march through the 5.10 grade into 5.11
The pre-70s OW's were put up by Pratt, Robbins and Sacherer... and span 5.9 thru 5.10d.
from George Meyers, Yosemite Climbs 1982
OFFWIDTH ( 3½" to 8")
5.9
The Cleft FA 1958 Chuck Pratt Wally Reed
Peter Pan FA 1962 Bob Kamps Jim Sims
Apron Jam FA 1965 Galen Rowell Gordon Webster
5.10a
Banana Dreams FA 1974 Vern Clevenger
Cookie, Left FA 1968 Royal Robbins Loyd Price
This and That FA 1972 Jim Donini Jim Bridwell
Nothing Special (Mongolian Clusterf*#k) FA 1972 Jim Donini
Chingando FA 1965 Chuck Pratt
Reed's Pinnacle, Left FFA 1962 Frank Sacherer Dick Erb Larry Marshik
Bong's Away, Center FA 1970 Barry Bates Mark Klemens
Hourglass, Right FFA 1964 Frank Sacherer Tom Gerughty
Gollum, Left FA 1972 Peter Hahn Rick Linkert David Moss
Orange Juice Avenue FA 1975 Chris Falkenstein Don Reid
Secret Storm FA 1971 Peter Haan Roger Breedlove
Doggie Do FA ? Chris Fredericks
Geek Towers, Center FA 1974 Jim Bridwell John Syrett
Geek Towers, Right FA 1971 Mark Klemens Jim Bridwell
Worst Error, Right FA 1962 Frank Sacherer Galen Rowell
Crack of Doom FA 1961 Chuck Pratt Mort Hempel
Crack of Dispair FFA 1964 Frank Sacherer Chuck Pratt Tom Gerughty
5.10b
Vendetta FA 1967 Loyd Price Roger Gordon
The Slack, Left FA 1965 Chuck Pratt Royal Robbins
Smoky Pillar FA 1973 Jim Bridwell George Meyers Vern Clevenger Larry Bruce
Book of Job FA 1971 Rick Sylvester Ben Read
Pulpit Pooper FA 1972 Jim Orey Jack Roberts
Jam Session FA 1971 Mark Klemens Jim Bridwell
5.10c
Twinkie FA 1973 Ray Jardine Chris Nelson
The Shaft FA 1971 Matt Donohoe George Meyers
Wild Turkey FA 1974 Dale Bard Ron Kauk
Edge of Night FA 1967 Chris Fredericks Rich Doleman Jim Bridwell
Fallout FA 1972 Jim Donini Steve Wunsch
Mental Block FA 1973 Dale Bard Jim Bridwell
Barefoot Servants FA 1980 Don Reid Alan Bartlett Alan Roberts
5.10d
Twilight Zone FA 1965 Chuck Pratt Chris Fredericks
Steppin' Out FA 1971 Mark Klemens Jim Bridwell
Plumb Line FA 1974 Dale Bard Jim Bridwell Kevin Worrall
5.11a
Cream FA 1971 Mark Klemens
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 21, 2008 - 10:38pm PT
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Free Press 5.10a FA 1971 Galen Rowell Sibylle Hechtel
it's a flare
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Nov 21, 2008 - 10:53pm PT
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Here's a slightly updated version of the offwidth section in "routes by type", possibly with a few misclassified. I should probably clean out the "TR" designation, since I think most of those have been led.
Offwidth
938. Supertoe Left 5.7
747. Little John - Left 5.8 *
1032. True Grit 5.8
9. Sawyer Crack 5.9
192. The Cleft 5.9 R *
269. Moss O Menos 5.9
286. Prime Time 5.9
610. Side Kick 5.9
742. La Cosita - Left Variation 5.9 *
987. Sow Sow Sow p1 5.9
1943. Apron Jam 5.9 *
2051. Tithe 5.9
2116. Tilted Mitten - Center 5.9
2120. The Sphinxter 5.9
2128. The Mummy's Revenge 5.9
2509. Bridwell Corner 5.9 *
716. Peter Pan 5.9+ *
152. Banana Dreams 5.10a
178. Cookie - Left 5.10a
390. This and That 5.10a *
471. Mongolian Clusterf*#k 5.10a R
491. Chingando 5.10a *
502. Reed's Pinnacle - Left Side 5.10a *
516. Bongs Away - Center 5.10a
560. Copper Penny 5.10a *
702. The Hourglass - Right Side 5.10a
780. Gollum - Left Side 5.10a
954. Orange Juice Avenue 5.10a *
988. Sow Sow Sow 5.10a
1124. Secret Storm 5.10a *
1127. Doggie Do 5.10a
1384. Geek Towers - Center Route 5.10a
1386. Geek Towers - Right Side 5.10a A2
1843. Milk Dud 5.10a
2124. Yin-Yang p2 5.10a
2592. Pink Dream 5.10a ***
2596. Crack of Doom 5.10a *
2597. Crack of Despair 5.10a *
1074. Absolutely Free - Right Side 5.10a R/X
187. Vendetta 5.10b *
273. Strategery 5.10b
736. The Slack - Left Side 5.10b
967. Dick Wrenching Classic 5.10b
1171. Smoky Pillar 5.10b
2455. Pulpit Pooper 5.10b *
2485. Jam Session 5.10b *
274. Armbar Province 5.10 A1
719. Peter Left 5.10b/c *
2521. Battle-Ship 5.10
401. Generator Crack 5.10c TR *
636. Wild Turkey 5.10c *
1123. Edge of Night 5.10c *
1144. Fallout 5.10c
2119. Mental Block 5.10c **
2398. Barefoot Servants 5.10c
80. The Bin 5.10d *
93. Extra Credit 5.10d
163. Twilight Zone 5.10d **
458. The Shaft 5.10d
546. Steppin' Out 5.10d **
2580. Plumb Line 5.10d *
42. A Desperate Kneed 5.11a *
1589. Power Failure 5.11a **
2484. Cream 5.11a **
1639. Basket Case 5.11b
76. GRE 5.11
627. Scab Laborer 5.11? TR
1382. Freestone 5.11c ***
2577. Jaws 5.12a TR
and a couple of the climbs in the 1982 ow list are in the Chimney section now:
2594. Worst Error - Right Side 5.10a *
148. Twinkie 5.10c
Book of Job was for me a thin crack crux
from
http://www.stanford.edu/~clint/yos/YOSTYP.HTM
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 21, 2008 - 10:58pm PT
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it would be cool for barbarianism to post here, but he hasn't since January...
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Social climber
valley center, ca
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Nov 21, 2008 - 11:03pm PT
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Many on ST know The Bridwell Paisley Shirt pic is a favorite lifetime pic ever for Lynnie in the ST archives.
Dang, thought I'd gotten beyond it and on to new life. Then it gets posted again. Yikes and Sheee, ok I'll deal with it. :D
Where is that shirt ? Is it still alive. Anyone? Lynnie
EDIT: Note Bridwell's slings match shirt. Someday in history these fashion notes will find their mark, describing people that clearly were above the cut at their particular time in history..... Climbing and motivating with "the leader shirt".
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Patrick Oliver
Boulder climber
Fruita, Colorado
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Nov 21, 2008 - 11:59pm PT
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It was right at the early 1970's (I can check a more exact date, if need be) that Tom Higgins and I climbed Pratt's route the Left Side of the Slack. I well remember leading that crux section and Tom and I referring to it as "off-width," and indeed it is a strange width where nothing fits very well. I recall Bridwell using the term around this time but also Barry Bates. Earlier, though, I remember Pratt calling a couple cracks he and I did "bad width." It's possible the bad width evolved into off width. I also recall the term "wrong width," also coined, I believe, by Pratt. But the real precursor to off width, which I know I was using in the late 1960's, and I know Chuck used, was "off size." And I could easily see how those combinations could mix and in a twinkle become off width.
Pat
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scuffy b
climber
On the dock in the dark
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Does anybody have a 72 Ascent handy?
That's got Yosemite Notes from the 71 season, which didn't make
it into the Green Roper.
It records the 1st ascents of Cream, Jam Session, I think
Peter Left, Steppin Out, L. Hourglass, Narrow Escape.
Good possibilites here. Maybe Roper descended into the barbaric
new terminology?
The phrase that stuck in my memory from those Notes is
"horror show"
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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This has been an interesting discussion, partly because it helps to highlight how technical jamming had become by the early seventies in Yos.
The Germans gave us "Duelfer" for layback, but they didn't really evolve a uniform vocabulary for distinguishing cracks, even though Dresden had tons of hard off-width and squeeze chimneys in the early 20th century.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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The introduction to Roper's "Yosemite Notes" section in Ascent, 1972, says "Climbers are seeking out more and more 'off-width' jamcracks. That's the kind in which no part of your body seems to fit perfectly."
The report includes routes like Cream and the left side of Hourglass, mostly from 1971, but doesn't use the word "off-width" anywhere else.
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scuffy b
climber
On the dock in the dark
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So, this seems to be, so far, the earliest print citation
discovered by this group.
One never knows exactly what setting a phrase in quotes means,
but I'm guessing that Roper's meaning is along the lines of
"so-called off-width cracks", as if he doesn't want to give
full currency to the unsavory term.
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spyork
Social climber
A prison of my own creation
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On the wonderful list above:
> 742. La Cosita - Left Variation 5.9 *
La Cosita Left is an offwidth? Didnt seem like it to me.
> 1074. Absolutely Free - Right Side 5.10a R/X
I went up and looked at Absolutely Free right, it looked horrendous. Looked harder than 10a.
> 178. Cookie - Left 5.10a
This is really hard. I found it mystifying. Must be doing it wrong.
Edit: I never saw an offwidth when I climbed La Cosita Left. I think Ive done it twice. But that was before I fell in with the wrong crowd and I maybe wasnt looking for an offwidth variation to it.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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How did you do La Cosita Left variation (as opposed to the 5.7 "regular" route) if not by off-width? Pretty scary offwidth to lead, at least in my current, decrepit, overweight state.
John
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scuffy b
climber
On the dock in the dark
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Anders, if you could peruse a bit more of that intro to the
Yosemite Notes?
My recollection is that he remarked on the trend toward short
free climbs and toward groundfall risk.
Taken along with the phrase you quoted, I get the impression
that he has just awakened to the notion that he's part of the
Past in the Valley.
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Steve,
> > 742. La Cosita - Left Variation 5.9 *
> La Cosita Left is an offwidth? Didnt seem like it to me.
La Cosita - Left is a steep 5.7 corner/crack.
La Cosita - Left Variation is a flake, further to the left. Offwidth or possibly lieback.
Maybe it should be renamed "La Cosita - Far Left"?
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Redlands
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"La Cosita Far Left", a good aka could be "The Marxist"
Makes me wonder where/when "ringlock" entered the lexicon.
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Jaybro
Social climber
wuz real!
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Slightly later, as I recall...
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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"Camp 4, now known officially as Sunnyside Campground, pulsates with the sound of iron being racked by teenagers just down from El Cap, girls getting ready for Coonyard, hippies, salesmen and thieves. All walks of life are present, it seems, quite unlike the bygone days when only introverted, maladjusted, sex-starved college dropouts joyfully found some measure of normalcy through climbing.
"The boulders exude chalk, piton scars are found in A5 cracks two feet above the ground, and chin-up bars are crudely strapped between the trees. Warren Harding refers to Camp 4 as an Olympic Training Village.
"The Olympians work damn hard, no doubt of that. In the fifty-odd new routes which follow, only a handful are rated below 5.8. It will also be noticed that very few big climbs have been established; many of the routes are but a single pitch, and a short one at that. Climbers are seeking out more and more 'off-width' jamcracks. That's the kind in which no part of your body seems to fit perfectly.
"An elite group, led by Royal Robbins, Mark Klemens and Peter Haan, have lately been observed performing the scariest of climbing maoeuvres: unroped 5.9 and 5.10. Mind-control is everything these days, and these lads really have it. There is a not-so-subtle undercurrent of one-upsmanship in the game. Standards will be pushed and slowly raised, though some climbers, not honed to a fine edge, will take the dreaded groundfall.
"Aesthetic and varied artifical chocks are by now so much a part of the normal hardware selection that a special book is being kept which lists all the climbs which have gone 'clean', that is, with nuts only. A few nuts have pulled out on falls, but pitons always did too, and climbers are not really concerned with the safety aspect; it's the ecology and speed trip now. Rumours abound in the Valley regarding new Lowe-clan inventions: will crack jumars allow the Nose to be done in a day? Crack jumars, one stammers, what the hell? But they only fit cracks bigger than one and a half inches. Oh, that's good.
"A climber's camp is being considered for the east portion of Camp 4; the seven-day limit will not be enforced so rigidly, cars will be banned and a 50 cents per night per person fee will be levied. A rescue team will be on hand, composed of trained climbers who will rotate with others every few weeks. Their compensation: no camp fee and hourly wages for rescue work."
 Ascent, 1972, page 58. Steve Roper was then its co-editor.
Plus ça change, plus c'est la męme chose.
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Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
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Sep 30, 2010 - 01:21pm PT
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Not really seeing much use in any sixties accounts...likely because aficionados saw nothing at all "off" about wideness. If Roper hated them...Bingo!
As Jello pointed out a while back, bodies and appendages vary so much in size that the term is rather useless. But I recall "off-fingers" and "off-hands" being used a lot, too.
I like "fatcracks", myself!
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Sep 30, 2010 - 02:00pm PT
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I first ran accross "offwidth" as a description of a wide crack in late 1971 in Berkeley. I am unaware of its use in print until the 1973 Bridwell article, but it might be worthwhile to check the 1972 Ascent, which I would do, except I'm not at home. I think it was that, but it may have been the 1971 Ascent that reported on the first ascents of Cream and Narrow Escape, together with the FFA of Hourglass Left.
All of this suggests that Peter is probably our best source of info here.
John
Edit: Sorry, Anders. I didn't see the last page of posts!
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Dec 21, 2011 - 10:35pm PT
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literary reference bump
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Jaybro
Social climber
Wolf City, Wyoming
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Dec 21, 2011 - 11:14pm PT
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best kept current
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scuffy b
climber
heading slowly NNW
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Dec 22, 2011 - 02:07pm PT
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I my readings since this thread was new, I still have not seen a print
usage earlier than Ascent 1972, which covers the climbs established in
1971.
I have not seen the 1969 or 1970 Ascents recently.
The 1968 Ascent, which includes Edge of Night, Another Country (left side
of the Remnant) and first free ascent of the Slack, does not use the term.
In the descrition of the Bridwell/Faint route on Washington Column, there is mention of a flake which "is climbed by difficult and unprotected
jamming and chimneying; the first protection is 60 ft. out at a small roof
(5.8)."
This material is supplied by Chuck Pratt, perhaps tweaked by David Dornan.
I have seen earlier references which are quite generic, such as "6-inch
jam crack."
In Chouinard's early AAJ article on Yosemite climbing, he describes
chimneys which range down in size to those which require one-arm and one-
leg technique.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 6, 2012 - 12:07am PT
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bump
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