Discussion Topic |
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Anastasia
climber
Not here
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Topic Author's Original Post - Nov 16, 2008 - 12:40pm PT
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I am really annoyed right now.
LEB posted a very interesting article about the presidency when suddenly the thread was hijacked into a bashfest against her.
Now... If someone doesn't like someone's posting, either talk directly about it in an honest way or don't respond.
This recent act of repeating a juvenile statement until it fills up the whole screen makes me want to walk away from the taco stand. I think it's a chicken shiest way of mistreating a person behind the safety of a computer. I don't like it and I ask everyone to participate with me in not allowing it to continue. Yes, I am that mad!
AF
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WBraun
climber
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Nov 16, 2008 - 12:45pm PT
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It's a normal occurrence at times here Anastasia by certain individuals, please don't let it get you down.
Just let it go and flow on.
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survival
Big Wall climber
A Token of My Extreme
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Nov 16, 2008 - 12:46pm PT
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Good for you Anastasia.
I try hard to keep it civil myself.
Sarcasm can be fun in the right company, but positive is better.
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ron gomez
Trad climber
fallbrook,ca
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Nov 16, 2008 - 01:00pm PT
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I can completely agree with you! Ed Hatouni and Don Lauria have made KILLER GOOD contributions lately, have loved reading some of the history to our activity and can appreciate the time it's taken to put those stories in words. Take Werner's advice and just flow on. Maybe resist the urge to go look on those posts that get annoying.
Most of the junk on this site is worthwhile...
Peace
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Sir loin of leisure...
Trad climber
X
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Nov 16, 2008 - 01:02pm PT
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I think we all need to take a deep breath and think this through
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Anastasia
climber
Not here
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 16, 2008 - 01:07pm PT
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Werner,
I don't mind a few rude remarks. I am also one of those people that thinks sarcasm is an art form but... Sometimes, sometimes the village does need to step in when someone gets "too out of line." I think allowing someone to interfere with a thread in a way that you can't ignore it, (he duplicated his writing throughout the whole page...) Allowing such things makes us all look bad.
Alright... Now that I got that off my chest, I can take a deep breath, calm down and listen to your advise.
"Flow..."
AF
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caughtinside
Social climber
Davis, CA
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Nov 16, 2008 - 01:08pm PT
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rude posts on supertopo?
Say it isn't so!
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jeffw
climber
portland, or
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Nov 16, 2008 - 01:08pm PT
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i've just read through the thread started by LEB and her initial post was an obvious troll. i say if you go looking for trouble and find it, then no one needs to feel sorry for you. i agree that civility is a good thing, but people who troll do so to incite uncivil behavior.
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Anastasia
climber
Not here
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 16, 2008 - 01:12pm PT
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Are we looking at the same post?
It about the negative perks of power with this link attached.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27740220/
It is pretty interesting stuff that I am tempted to use for a discussion with my students.
AF
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jeffw
climber
portland, or
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Nov 16, 2008 - 01:23pm PT
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i was looking at the "tolerance" thread instead, which was certainly a troll. in any event, i think my point is still valid: LEB wants to troll then she has opened the door to incivility. if she wants people to treat her seriously and with respect, then she shouldn't troll.
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jeffw
climber
portland, or
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Nov 16, 2008 - 01:24pm PT
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LEB, you are a troll.
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caughtinside
Social climber
Davis, CA
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Nov 16, 2008 - 01:24pm PT
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with the election over, there is a large vacuum of non climbing related rude wanking that simply must be filled!
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Jingy
Social climber
Flatland, Ca
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Nov 16, 2008 - 01:25pm PT
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Here Here!!!
Ana - I think it might have something to do with the limited climbing availability of the season. When folks can't climb, they might feel inclined to review the Taco for others climbing/politics and then their inner anger for not being able to climb might come out in the form of rage. I'm just sorry that LEB was the recipient of such scorn.
But then again, seeing that I have limited knowledge of the people doing the hijacking.. at this point, I can only provide my own perspective on this subject.
Cheers
Post Edit: LEB - ANA - Just read the first page of the article. What is interesting about it? I can see that the prez might have a hacker problem, and having this/these devices might invite the hacker in. I don't think that Bush himself wrote it, but that bit about in an effort to avoid the issue. It's unfortunate, but might be necessary.
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Sir loin of leisure...
Trad climber
X
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Nov 16, 2008 - 01:26pm PT
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jeffw is right,people pimping their political views on a sweet rock climbing site gets old quick..
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jeffw
climber
portland, or
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Nov 16, 2008 - 01:49pm PT
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LEB,
"My perception is that the left is very intolerant of divergent opinions"
here is an obvious troll. basically you are just airing your opinion that liberals suck. big deal. i'm not interested in your opinion because i'm certainly not interested in discussing anything with a troll. trolls don't want to discuss, they want to argue, that's why they post obviously inciting phrases like the one quoted above. you are a troll and that's why you are posting on this website: you feel like having an argument and you are looking for someone who will fight with you. good luck.
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Anastasia
climber
Not here
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 16, 2008 - 02:26pm PT
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LEB, your using reason. You know that doesn't work with men. Sorry guys, but most of you it's either one must agree to your views or the highway.
Plus when a man leaves for the road, he needs to stroll out to the car, look back at his opponent so he can stare the other male down while driving off. If it's a woman, you can ignore her, blame it on her mood swings/PMS and later hope she'll forgive when you start missing her.
AF
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Nov 16, 2008 - 02:29pm PT
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I'm a big fan of respect, love and yet telling it like it is.
That said, how a person responds to rudeness is telling and gives them a chance to test themselves and show their colors. That can be a good thing, particularly since internet posting isn't as dangerous and challenging as climbing.
Lois can hold her own pretty well. Maybe her skin is too thick?
Anyway, in the world outside of climbing threads, we spend too much time engaging with people who are so set in their view that we change nothing. I propose that when you want to get deeper into a subject, it might be a good idea to continue down the road of dialog with people who you can have a meaningful "back and forth" with and allow those who are fixed in their ways to regard you as someone who is fixed in your ways and they can hash things out from their perspective.
Sport Bolters can argue about how to best sport bolt and trad dudes can argue about when to chop or when to trad bolt on stance. Super right wingers can argue which should go first, welfare or social security and the lefties can decide whose money we're taking to give to the poor.
Then, if we learn something from each other accidentally, it will be same as it ever was, the same way we learn from each other now.
Peace
Karl
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Anastasia
climber
Not here
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Topic Author's Reply - Nov 16, 2008 - 02:43pm PT
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Dude, there is rude and then there is this line that shouldn't be crossed.
I don't know if I am making myself clear... Being sarcastic, giving someone a good scathing isn't bad. Taking a whole page to do it and then some... "Not Cool." Attacking someone directly, "Very Uncool."
Threatening a man's daughter, (happened to MR years ago...) "That's Criminal."
-Now that is my two cents.-
Blah...
(Throwing my hands up...)
You people have brains, I'll let you figure it out.
Now off I go to "flow." (W. yes... I finally hit my head enough against the wall to get it out of my system.) Obviously I'm also a slow learner.
AF
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rincon
Trad climber
SoCal
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Nov 16, 2008 - 03:11pm PT
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LEB = Troll
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Nov 16, 2008 - 03:11pm PT
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"My perception is that the left is very intolerant of divergent opionions and I wanted to air that concern out. There was nothing "trolling" about it. It is a genuine view I hold/held however I wanted the opportunity to see what others thought of this issue."
Which is LEB in a nutshell. She has strongly held "beliefs" and "perceptions", states them, and then will not engage in discussion as to whether her beliefs have any rational basis. As many of them seem to simply parrot Republican orthodoxy, it doesn't help her credibility.
"The unexamined life is not worth living."
ps Voted in civic election yesterday. For some "liberals", some "conservatives", some "experienced". The main criteria for being experience and qualifications.
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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Nov 16, 2008 - 03:28pm PT
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hey there anastasia... say, i had not seen either of leb's post, as i keep away from political stuff, as i really dont know much to say on any of it, since folks differ so widely, and know more than i... so:
i had not seen any of this...
i just wanted to step in though, to keep in touch with all of what supertopo does, so to keep us joined in understanding what and who is here, and such, in case someone needs help, etc, or in case we need to share something that needs to be learned---but these folks here know more of this situation and what to share on this subject, than i do...
i was just worried that you, yourself were getting "too much firing" coming your way, was all....
i know from the past, that leb and the gang here seem to know how to handle all this, as when i first got on supertopo, there was some hard times for leb, and others, from her post...
but she has been here a long time, so all must have fallen into place...
hope all settles well again, so the hard current won't knock folks "out of stream"--that's always sad, cause there are so many folks here with so much to offer...
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klinefelter
Boulder climber
Bishop, CA
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Nov 16, 2008 - 03:54pm PT
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LEB -- A troll is someone who posts a statement which they know to be untrue for the purpose of inciting a riot. Going to a women's website and posting "women should be barefoot and pregnant" is a troll. The poster knows it is not true and knows the reaction he will get.
Interesting that LEB doesn't actually understand what a makes a troll. Here's the Wikipedia def:
An Internet troll, or simply troll in Internet slang, is someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum or chat room, with the intention of provoking other users into an emotional response or to generally disrupt normal on-topic discussion.
And why start a new thread jumping to her defense? She seems perfectly capable, and I suspect she enjoys her interactions on ST. Why else would she be here? It ain't for the trip reports.
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chainsaw
Trad climber
CA
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Nov 16, 2008 - 04:21pm PT
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Sounds like it takes one to know one you trolls! LEB, whoever you are, you cannot win. Trolls are at your door and they feed on your energy right now. If exposing them was your goal, you have accomplished your mission. Chill then.
Best wishes,
One who has stepped in plenty of shit
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LuckyPink
climber
the last bivy
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Nov 16, 2008 - 04:26pm PT
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Idiot A@@holes always reveal themselves, they are uninteresting and attempt to gain a meager foothold with their hostility and blither..
Post ON LEB you are more appreciated
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Norton
Social climber
the Wastelands
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Nov 16, 2008 - 04:28pm PT
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The left is intolerant of viewpoints different from theirs?
You gotta be joking LEB.
If you posted that you believed there was no such thing as gravity, and various people replied saying your were nuts, wrong,
and crazy, then you would say they are being intolerant.
Yesterday I pressed you repeatedly for proof of your statement that Obama is "anti US military". You danced, you shuffled, you diverted to some talk of Europe, you gave vague references to you just have to listen and feel that when he talks you just know he has some hidden agenda, and other crap talk. No way could you just say that you were WRONG and apologize.
So LEB, when you say stupid stuff because of your right wing world view, then yes people like me are going to disagree with you, vigorously if necessary. That's not being intolerant.
Here's a real shock LEB, virtually everyone except apparently you, has the opposite belief. News flash, it is "conservatives" that are incredibly "intolerant", of gay lifestyles, of womens right to choose what happens in their own bodies, christ I could write three books about how intolerant conservatives are !!!
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chainsaw
Trad climber
CA
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Nov 16, 2008 - 04:28pm PT
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bump lucky pink!
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Captain...or Skully
Social climber
Boise
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Nov 16, 2008 - 04:54pm PT
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I've had enough!
I'm going to Bah Hahbah!
C'mon, Locker, & bring your friend.
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divad
Trad climber
wmass
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Nov 16, 2008 - 05:00pm PT
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I dunno, did I miss something? Seemed like an ordinary interjection into a LEB thread to me. We have no accurate way to measure rudeness on the internet as we can't look the person in the face. As far as hijacking threads, I thought Lois practically invented the concept here or at least took it to a new level. If you're defending Lois from the guys here because she's a woman, that won't wash. We're not wrestling or playing football here. Lois is on an equal footing with the rest of us when it comes to give and take. Oh, wait a minute... :)
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Ricky D
Trad climber
Sierra Westside
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Nov 16, 2008 - 05:33pm PT
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What this thread needs is a person choking a rubber chicken -
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divad
Trad climber
wmass
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Nov 16, 2008 - 05:43pm PT
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Now that's rude.
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WoodySt
Trad climber
Riverside
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Nov 16, 2008 - 06:54pm PT
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Lois,
Keep it up. There is a set of people that you irritate, and they will call just about anything you post as a troll. On the whole, they are a shallow lot. I've usually found your posts worth reading and reflecting on.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Nov 16, 2008 - 07:22pm PT
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"LEB, whoever you are, you cannot win."
She will win. She is Invincible I tell you.
Even when she loses, she doesn't realize nor admit it, so she still doesn't lose.
Even this thread will be LeBified
Peace
Karl
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Mimi
climber
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Nov 16, 2008 - 07:47pm PT
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It's much more Darwinian than that. LEB has a unique effect on many newcomers to the ST. As an avowed nonclimber, she endures on a climber's forum. Even Largo had his shot in the octogon. LOL!
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GDavis
Trad climber
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Nov 16, 2008 - 07:51pm PT
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:D
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WBraun
climber
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Nov 16, 2008 - 07:56pm PT
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Poor Lois .....
She just can't get no respect.
I like Lois, especially because she's genuine.
Also agree with what Woody said ......
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Sir loin of leisure...
Trad climber
X
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Nov 16, 2008 - 07:58pm PT
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you like everyone werner,that's why your the bagwan..
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johnboy
Trad climber
Can't get here from there
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Nov 16, 2008 - 08:28pm PT
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Great, one thread about the second amendment and now one on the first amendment.
Don't anyone disagree with my assumption or I'll change what I meant, then you'll really look rude.
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GDavis
Trad climber
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Nov 17, 2008 - 02:08am PT
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LEB is probably hot. Are you a mom? Moms are hot.
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GDavis
Trad climber
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Nov 17, 2008 - 02:08am PT
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so are some dads.
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GDavis
Trad climber
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Nov 17, 2008 - 02:09am PT
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Fletcher
Trad climber
Max V02
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Nov 17, 2008 - 02:28am PT
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I find it fascinating that some spend so much energy going after Lois. Why is that so important? There is so much one can choose to ignore on the net. Why give your precious time and effort to bringing a human being down? Maybe take a look within and see from where such vitriol is flowing. I've certainly been there many times in my own imperfect human life.
It feels really good to haul off and pop someone who is annoying, provoking, angering, etc. But once that's done, then what? Does it really continue to feel good? Are you done? Or do you find that you thirst for more? Is that contentment?
Sure, much of the time, many of us are not in lock-step with Lois' views and even can be incredulous at what she believes. But she is a truly confident believer in her self.... she "knows!" But as other's have pointed out, she is genuine, makes a more than concerted effort to explain where she's coming from, and provides spice and diversity to this place. The real deal and no pretension.
I usually tend to disagree with much of what she says in some areas, but that doesn't mean I cannot like her. I do. Really, how can one not find at least some endearment for such a character?!!
I think Largo might have been the one who said that ST should not be just about climbing, but about all the things climbers are interested in (it would indeed be too dry and serious otherwise). Lois ain't no climber (I think that's an established fact by now!), but climbers sure are interested in what she has to say, eh?
Whatever you think of her, she is a part of the big little world of the Taco. You don't need to engage with her. But if you do, grasshopper, be prepared to face the Octagon as Karl points out!
So Anastasia: glad you got it out of your system... :-) You are a gem for recognizing the human being beneath all the mishegos (craziness). As Werner said in so many words, just step into the flow, flow with grace.
I like to think of the mind as a room with many doors and windows. All kinds of things flow into that room if we open the doors and windows. Some are annoying and angering. We can be upset they are there and grasp on to them, using up all of our energy on something that we could just as easily let naturally flow to the other side of the room out another open window.
The bonus is that you open the room for some potentially beautiful things to now flow in!
This is so simple yet so hard to accomplish for us goofy humans. To you rude people: yeah, your actions are rude, but let's not demonize you either. There is good within you as well.
Peace, love, hugs and whatever else it takes.
Fletch
"The first question I ask myself when something doesn't seem to be beautiful is why do I think it's not beautiful. And very shortly you discover that there is no reason." — John Cage
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Fletcher
Trad climber
Max V02
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Nov 17, 2008 - 02:31am PT
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Good lord.. I'm a long winded blowhard! :-)
Fletch
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Nov 17, 2008 - 03:38am PT
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LEB is owning this thread! Well played Mistress fool!
It's true, Too much climbing only posting would drive us nut, but LEB can be a tangent too, and one we can learn from.
Some people can be a crux and catalyst for us, intentionally or unintentionally.
WHat we resist, persists.
Peace
karl
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jbar
Mountain climber
Inside my head
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Nov 17, 2008 - 05:22am PT
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I find it hard to agree with the ST definition of sarcasm. Something Chevy Chase or Rodney Dangerfield say with the intent on humor is sarcastic. Bland and offensive statements uttered by the likes of Rush Limbaugh or Jon Stewart is most certainly not. Sarcasm contains no anger, no name calling and no threats. Funny how some people feel so threatened by someone who believes other than they do. I don't know where some of the people on this forum are from but where I'm from we encourage healthy discussion and debate. Only thing is we don't consider name calling debate. When that happens someone usually the offender take a nap.
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Redlands
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Nov 17, 2008 - 10:06am PT
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"...makes me want to walk away from the taco stand."
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WBraun
climber
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Nov 17, 2008 - 11:50am PT
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Werner hates me and owes me two rescues ...
You're dreaming man.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Nov 17, 2008 - 11:57am PT
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"Werner hates me and owes me two rescues .."
yup, dreaming. Rescue him once, shame on him....
Rescue him twice?......eh,,,err...
.......won't get rescued again!
;-)
Karl
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atchafalaya
climber
Babylon
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Nov 17, 2008 - 12:15pm PT
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this thread f*#king sucks.
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
somewhere without avatars.........
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Nov 17, 2008 - 02:57pm PT
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Someone call the Wahbulance! Too much whining in here.
Probably should lay off of this stuff
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Jaybro
Social climber
wuz real!
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Nov 17, 2008 - 03:02pm PT
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That Gdavis guy could be a centerfold, or something.
Seemed blander when he was governor.
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GDavis
Trad climber
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Nov 17, 2008 - 06:34pm PT
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
somewhere without avatars.........
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Nov 17, 2008 - 06:42pm PT
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Hard to get any more rude than that pic!!! Yikes!
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Ricky D
Trad climber
Sierra Westside
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Nov 17, 2008 - 06:52pm PT
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jbar
Mountain climber
Inside my head
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Nov 18, 2008 - 04:07am PT
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Oh the humanity! I think I'm going to hurl.
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