Discussion Topic |
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Chris2
Trad climber
The Gunks to Joshua Tree
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Oct 13, 2008 - 05:12pm PT
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and society will fail again...
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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Oct 13, 2008 - 05:33pm PT
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this has been extensively discussed in poll analysis.
http://www.fivethirtyeight.com has a useful overview as well as links on the front page.
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Oct 13, 2008 - 05:35pm PT
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Unfortunately most people have not learned to make their intellect dominate over their intrinsic human nature and, at least subconsciously aware of it, they prevaricate as a denial mechanism.
We're gonna know pretty soon anyway.
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seamus mcshane
climber
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Oct 13, 2008 - 06:39pm PT
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What?
Skipt, bookworm, Flashlight, fattrad are pretending not to be racist?
Nuh uh? No way...
My Prediction:
Obama wins, he takes a bullet. :(
If the true face of the extreme "right" has its' way this will sadly be the case.
Face it... If these dumbasses can steal Bush an election, then Obama has crosshairs on his forehead already... 8(
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bookworm
Social climber
Falls Church, VA
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Oct 13, 2008 - 06:39pm PT
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"We're gonna know pretty soon anyway"
so, racism is the only way obama can lose? then how do you explain the conservative blacks who oppose obama? are they racist, too? and the 90% of blacks who support obama? are they all motivated solely by their intellect? you don't think maybe a few just want to vote for a brotha? this is such an idiotic meme...it's a fact that a majority (however slim) of the population is conservative on most social and political issues; people vote their wallets, first (it's the economy stupid), and then the issues; and if obama does lose, you'll waste the next four years harping about racism rather than addressing the issues...guaranteeing another dem loss
how about a variation of the bradley effect: people lie because they don't want to be CALLED racist because if you claim you're against abortion, you're a racist...if you're against the practice of forcing lenders to give subprime loans to high-risk borrowers, you're a racist...if you think the ceos of fannie and freddie should be called to testify before congress just like the ceos of aig and bear/stearns; you're a racist...if you criticize preachers who scream "god damn america" from the pulpit, you're a racist...if you criticize a presidential candidate for his relationship with an UNREPENTANT terrorist whose organization killed seven people and tried to kill many more including an 8-year-old boy, you're a racist...if you think the media should scrutinize a presidential candidate's background as closely as it has scrutinized a vice presidential candidate, you're a racist...if you think the next president should demand that rogue nations meet certain conditions before scoring a face-to-face with the president, you're a racist...if you believe in the free market, you're a racist...if you vote for anyone besides obama, you're a racist even if you're a registered republican and have been for 20 years
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seamus mcshane
climber
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Oct 13, 2008 - 06:41pm PT
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Bookie, You're an unrepentant RACIST!!! ;)
Please stay on the least coast forever.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Oct 13, 2008 - 06:42pm PT
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A little defensive, aren't we bookworm? Got something you want a to get off your chest? We're all friends here we still love you no matter what.
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jbar
Mountain climber
Inside my head
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Oct 13, 2008 - 06:52pm PT
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Everyone post up pics of your african american friends you have taken climbing with you. This thread should be loaded.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Oct 13, 2008 - 06:59pm PT
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bookworm makes a good point, IMO.
You're also routinely derided as racist if you oppose illegal immigration.
When there is no other reasonable arguement scream, "racist!"
...whatever.
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jbar
Mountain climber
Inside my head
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Oct 13, 2008 - 07:07pm PT
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Why is it that if Obama wins it's because he lives in a great nation of opportunity and if he looses it's because republicans are racist. Me not being a republican, just think thats poor sportsmanship.
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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Oct 13, 2008 - 07:09pm PT
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could be worse some folks use derogatory terms for race/ethnic groups on this very web site.
does it make it right to use derogatory terms to refer to a country's inhabitants when that country is in a semi hostile position to the U.S. vis a vis the markets or ideology or over disputed territories that are supported by the U.S. by agreement?
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Social climber
valley center, ca
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Oct 13, 2008 - 07:14pm PT
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Generally, I agree with you bookworm..thanks for the thoughts.
I don't vote my wallet first tho. IMHO when money is first in your life, well sometimes the good and right and ethically sound goes by the wayside. I think we are seeing the results of wallet first voting today, and reaping the results of these decisions in the greedy ba'trd economy we now have.
Do what's right the rest will follow.
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Brunosafari
Boulder climber
Redmond, OR
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Oct 13, 2008 - 07:21pm PT
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"he's an Arab!"
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bookworm
Social climber
Falls Church, VA
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Oct 13, 2008 - 07:22pm PT
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"A little defensive, aren't we bookworm?"
no need to be; just pointing out the idiocy of the argument as proven by seamus...he knows nothing about me except some of my political beliefs yet feels justified (and probably righteous)in calling me a racist and you, high, support him...and you would love me if i were a racist? you're more confused than i thought
seamus even implies there are no racists on the left coast; he probably believes black people can't be racist...maybe somebody should explain that's racist, too
can you be specific, munge?
by the way, on stealing the 2000 election:
"The comprehensive review of the uncounted Florida ballots solidifies George W. Bush's legal claim on the White House because it concludes that he would have won under the ground rules prescribed by the Democrats."
and, before you start ranting about the vast right-wing conspiracy, here's the link to the conservative rag that oversaw the recount:
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9400E3DB1338F931A25752C1A9679C8B63
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Oct 13, 2008 - 07:23pm PT
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bookworm joins the ranks of those who misread (more like "read into") my posts,....
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bookworm
Social climber
Falls Church, VA
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Oct 13, 2008 - 07:27pm PT
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note, piton, that my response was a question...maybe you can clarify
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seamus mcshane
climber
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Oct 13, 2008 - 07:28pm PT
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Sorry bookworm, I lived in Georgia and lived amongst black people, I lived in New York City and lived amongst black people, and yes I have experienced "reversed" racism.
Just don't pretend not to be a fear-mongering racist, and I won't let you assume anything about me. OK?
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bookworm
Social climber
Falls Church, VA
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Oct 13, 2008 - 07:34pm PT
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"Just don't pretend not to be a fear-mongering racist, and I won't let you assume anything about me."
thanks for affirming my previous post on your prejudice (the act of judging before acquiring sufficient information)
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seamus mcshane
climber
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Oct 13, 2008 - 07:37pm PT
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Let me guess, bookworm is white?
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S.Powers
Social climber
Jtree, now in Alaska
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 13, 2008 - 07:42pm PT
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Bookworm and the rest, I do not think anyone here has said "the only reason Obama will lose is because of race". If people are more concerned with what people think about them because of the skin color of the candidate they are voting for, they are in fact racist. let me clarify, If you vote for McCain it does not make you inherently racist, but if you tell people you are voting for someone, and then do not vote for them in secret because of their skin color you are racist.
Why the explosion? did anyone here call anyone racist? did anyone put your party down in anyway? this thread attacked nobody.
Edit: Okay so somone did call somone a racist,aside from seamus, nobody is calling anybody names.
Edit#2: okay aside from Fatty and seamus, nobody is calling names.... this is going down hill fast....
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bookworm
Social climber
Falls Church, VA
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Oct 13, 2008 - 07:44pm PT
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and the idiocy continues...the last few times, bookworm has refused to check the "racial identity" box; previous to that, i checked "other"; previous to that, i checked asian american; previous to that, i checked caucasion because checking the other boxes didn't provide any advantages
had i to do it all over again, i'd probably check asian because there was a time when asians were considered a minority... and, since obama is half white but calls himself black, i figure i can call myself asian...of course, there is the 1/16th cherokee blood that would definitely get me some advantages
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Oct 13, 2008 - 07:45pm PT
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Bookie Boy, have you actually read that article and what it implies?
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seamus mcshane
climber
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Oct 13, 2008 - 07:45pm PT
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Fatty needs a whambulance He's butt hurt!!!
I'm totally a bigot, but only for your benefit.
Hehehe. I giggle, you squirm.
Fatty and Flashlight think this is a oneway street...Hehehe...
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Oct 13, 2008 - 07:47pm PT
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bookworm, in this country if you LOOK black then you ARE black. I like how you imply he's claiming his blackness as some sort of special privilege or something. In this country you're either all white or you aren't. Asians are most certainly a minority.
Did you just immigrate or something? You are talking like you have no experience with race in this country whatsoever.
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bookworm
Social climber
Falls Church, VA
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Oct 13, 2008 - 07:52pm PT
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the bradley effect suggests (there's no proof) that people will tell pollsters untruthfully they plan to vote for a black candidate because they don't want to be seen as racist even though race is a significant factor in their decision...does it happen, of course; but i also think more people lie not because they are racist but they think if they're honest people will accuse them of being racist
ultimately, the few people who don't vote for obama because of his race (and that includes a lot of dems) will be negated by the people who do vote for obama because of his race
a black man is a presidential nominee; most of the people who voted for him thus far are WHITE; race is not an issue, and if you think it is, you must agree that the reason hillary lost is sexism so your whole party is screwed up with prejudices
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Oct 13, 2008 - 07:56pm PT
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"You're also routinely derided as racist if you oppose illegal immigration."
A big reason for that is that many who do oppose immigration are racist. The issue isn't jobs (which, let's face it, most don't or won't take). When pushed, many proponents can't articulate a valid basis for immigration reform other what sound suspiciously like racist arguments. My personal belief is that most immigration advocates just don't like seeing lots of non-white faces in their town.
"When there is no other reasonable arguement scream, "racist!"
Admittedly, this can be the case. Kind of how the right uses the term "patriotic."
Still, LOTS of folks who don't think they aren't racist are just that, whether they realize it or not. There's a sliding scale too. You may not be a full blown racist, but you can be a bigot. Or you may not be a bigot, but you could just be really ignorant.
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bookworm
Social climber
Falls Church, VA
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Oct 13, 2008 - 07:56pm PT
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"Asians are most certainly a minority"
really? not when it comes to college admissions
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seamus mcshane
climber
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Oct 13, 2008 - 07:56pm PT
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Bookworm is too "booksmart" to even realize when he's ASSUMING anything.
Feel free not to put words in my mouth.
Feel free to watch the Discovery Channel tonight on "The Last Lynching". You might learn something...
Naw!!! you're too "booksmart" to watch the tube...
It's all about you and your "hooded" mob.
I can't wait...
Besides, I don't imply...
Hehehe... I hope you squirm.
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bookworm
Social climber
Falls Church, VA
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Oct 13, 2008 - 08:00pm PT
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"A big reason for that is that many who do oppose immigration are racist."
case in point, blue referred to ILLEGAL immigration...here's an interesting thought...those who scream racism when somebody advocates cracking down on ILLEGAL immigration also reject allowing ALL immigrants unrestricted access to the US...they only want unrestricted access for those coming from south of the border--that sounds racist to me
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Oct 13, 2008 - 08:02pm PT
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bookworm did you ever stop to consider that our immigration policy and laws are inherently racist?
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bookworm
Social climber
Falls Church, VA
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Oct 13, 2008 - 08:05pm PT
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"bookworm did you ever stop to consider that our immigration policy and laws are inherently racist?"
no, please explain so i can figure out how my mom beat the system...i mean, a jap gets into this country only 20 years after pearl harbor--what a story!
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seamus mcshane
climber
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Oct 13, 2008 - 08:06pm PT
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Fatman, you're the best.. I love you too, even though I've never crossed that Brokeback Mountain.
I hope you're squirming.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Oct 13, 2008 - 08:11pm PT
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bookworm there isn't just a single big line that everyone hops into to get into this country legally. Maybe you should look a little more into it before you get all huffy and puffy.
Voting for McCain isn't racist, but there are without a doubt far too many people voting for McCain as a vote for whitey or against darky.
How about this parade of people who think that Obama "might be a terrorist." He has the bloodlines? Look at his name? You honestly think this isn't about race?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjxzmaXAg9E&eurl=http://www.alternet
McCain has been desperately trying to make sure that Obama is known far and wide as "other." "He's not one of us." "Who is the real Barack Obama?" If you don't think this all has a major racial undertone you are crazy.
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nick d
Trad climber
nm
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Oct 13, 2008 - 08:13pm PT
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Fatty, J.C. Watts got out of politics because the GOP was so overtly racist. Apparently even being totally sold out wasn't enough for the rulers of your party.
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just passing thru
climber
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Oct 13, 2008 - 08:15pm PT
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IMO class envy is as bad as racism…
It really is the same, hating on someone you won’t make the time to get to know, simply because they belong to a different demographic.
Hmmmm. Sort of like the many of the extreme Dems here on ST.
HATING IS HATING, don’t matter what the rationalization is behind it…
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Oct 13, 2008 - 08:15pm PT
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HDDJ, you brought it up, you elaborate your point re:immigration.
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bookworm
Social climber
Falls Church, VA
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Oct 13, 2008 - 08:17pm PT
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"bookworm there isn't just a single big line that everyone hops into to get into this country legally. Maybe you should look a little more into it before you get all huffy and puffy."
maybe you should just explain it to all of us so we can be enlightened sooner...but i'll test your theory tomorrow when i go to school...i'll count how many immigrant students have irish, british, scottish, australian, kiwi, french, german, swiss, polish, etc. accents and compare that to the number of students with african (i mean really african), spanish, indian, arabic, korean, etc. accents...now which ethnicity do you think will be most represented? i'll make it easier for you and limit my count only to LEGAL immigrants...i'll bet hispanic/latino, followed by asian (yeah, i know i'm lumping but i'm a slow typist)
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Oct 13, 2008 - 08:26pm PT
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bookworm, bookworm, running down the trail,
bookworm, bookworm, hound dogs on your tail,
bookworm, bookworm, see them snarl with glee,
bookworm, bookworm, better you than me!
(What was the question,.....?) LOL
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Oct 13, 2008 - 08:26pm PT
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Wow bookworm. You might not be racist, but you're certainly a complete jackass.
Do you have any idea how many Europeans came to this country illegally? Basically every ethnic group has been discriminated against in this country at one time or another before they were assimilated and no longer treated overtly as "other." Many came legally, many did not. Mexicans hardly invented illegal immigration.
Ben Franklin once wrote about German immigrants "Why should Pennsylvania, founded by the English, become a Colony of Aliens, who will shortly be so numerous as to Germanize us instead of our Anglifying them, and will never adopt our Language or Customs, any more than they can acquire our Complexion."
The reason that many of the illegal immigrants that come to this country from Mexico come illegally is because they simply WOULD NEVER BE ALLOWED HERE OTHERWISE. They are unskilled, uneducated, poor and do not meet the qualifications that we put on them.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Oct 13, 2008 - 08:33pm PT
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"They are unskilled, uneducated, poor and do not meet the qualifications that we put on them. "
And that's the kind of immigrants we want. You forgot, fail to assimilate and learn the language.
I'm not saying none should be allowed, but it MUST be regulated and DOCUMENTED.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Oct 13, 2008 - 08:38pm PT
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Then turn your protest of illegal immigration into a demand for immigration reform that meets the realities of our immigration situation. People keep coming here because they need jobs and because we have jobs we need them to fill. If your only complaint is that these people aren't filling out paperwork documenting their entry then demand an open border policy. These people aren't paying hundreds and even thousands of dollars to coyote's and risking death in the desert because they are too lazy to fill out paperwork...it's because WE WOULD NEVER LET THEM THROUGH IF THEY FILLED IT OUT.
There is a good reason that both McCain's and Bush's immigration plans had temp worker programs. Unfortunately, they were both demonized by the right wingers for their audacity to actually deal with reality.
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Gene
climber
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Oct 13, 2008 - 08:43pm PT
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Friends,
Am I deluded as I sit in my house surrounded and flooded by the love I give and get from my wonderful and kick-ass mixed race kids that people really give a sh#t about “ethnic origins” or whatever we now call it?
Please join me in my constructive delusion.
The best thing about racism is that it will die within the next generation or two. Racism is going down the same road as slavery, bound feet (kids’ great-grandma suffered through that), branding criminals, lack of rights for those other than whites of the landed class, separate drinking fountains and Yellow Stars for Jews to only scratch the surface.
My kids will leave this world a better place than they found it. How about yours? How are you preparing them?
GM
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nick d
Trad climber
nm
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Oct 13, 2008 - 08:44pm PT
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J.C. Watts, former GOP congressman from Oklahoma and a black American, on the decision of the four front-running GOP candidates to skip Tavis Smiley's All American Presidential Forum, scheduled to be broadcast by PBS this Thursday.
"I think the best that comes out of stupid decisions like this," said former Oklahoma Rep. J.C. Watts, is "that African-Americans might say, 'Was it because of my skin color?' Now, maybe it wasn't, but African-Americans do say, 'It crossed my mind.'"
The invitations were extended in March, but the front-runners have claimed scheduling conflicts. Former House Speaker Newt Gingrich, who's weighing getting into the race, called that excuse "baloney" and called the no-shows "fundamentally wrong." On "Good Morning America" today, Gingrich said GOP candidates are making a mistake because "African-Americans have been hurt more by the failures of government" than any other group.
Watts pointed out that some of the candidates with more liberal histories on issues such as guns and abortion have reached out to conservative groups that don't share their views.
"You kind of scratch your head thinking why are they making decisions like that?" Watts said. He speculated the candidates don't have any African-American staffers who "could say to them, 'You're making a huge mistake strategically by not at least reaching out and talking to this demographic.'"
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Oct 13, 2008 - 08:54pm PT
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HDDJ, do you understand that these ILLEGAL immigrants are also taking many 'skilled' jobs under the guise of jobs Americans won't do. Namely in various construction fields.
My bottom line is that these people need to documented, go through the process, get SSN's, pay taxes, etc... Just like everybody else. Otherwise they are screwing our system. If they're is a job opening we can't fill here, we'll hire those laborers. You can't just have floods of people coming and choosing what to do undocumented. That's not a sane immigration policy. IT'S INSANE.
Not to mention we need to know who's here for security purposes, not just terrorism. We usually, for a reason, don't take criminals because they are unwelcome. And should be.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Oct 13, 2008 - 09:03pm PT
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"HDDJ, do you understand that these ILLEGAL immigrants are also taking many 'skilled' jobs under the guise of jobs Americans won't do. Namely in various construction fields. "
bluering- Certainly this is true to an extent. Most of those people didn't come here with those skills though, they learned them by coming here and working. They started as an unskilled worker and worked their way up. This is not the predominate role of undocumented workers, however, though "taking skilled jobs that would otherwise go to citizens" is certainly the right wing mantra.
You will find no complaints on the left for trying to legalize immigrants. There comes a point though when laws simply do not reflect the reality of the world and that point is long since passed with immigration.
Enforcing a law for the sake of the law is stupid. Change the law to be fair and reflect the reality of the world.
So I readily acknowledge your point bluering, and I ask you to do the same for mine. Do you recognize that these people do not come here because they want to dodge the system...they dodge the system because it is the obstacle keeping them from coming here. Change the system to allow unskilled laborers to come here and work and it will be easy to document them.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Oct 13, 2008 - 09:12pm PT
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"Enforcing a law for the sake of the law is stupid. Change the law to be fair and reflect the reality of the world. "
Fair to who? American skilled low-education workers or foreign low-educated workers?
The border laws and immigration laws serve a reason. To regulate the flow of people into this country that just about everybody want into.
Maybe we should look into 'upgrading' Mexico into a succssful and uncorrupted, lawfull economy.
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bookworm
Social climber
Falls Church, VA
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Oct 13, 2008 - 09:34pm PT
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why am i a jackass? because i work in a public school and see the many variations of LEGAL immigrants everyday, the vast majority of whom are NOT caucasion?
yes, i know about all the discrimination faced by immigrants, but i didn't know we were talking about history; i thought you were going to explain the "inherently racist" immigration policies, but you actually made an argument for current policy = limit the number of "unskilled, uneducated" immigrants in favor of those who are skilled and educated...now, unless you suggest that "skilled and educated" is a new race classification i'm still not sure how our immigration policies are racist because, as i said before, i see a whole lot more brown faces with accents at work everyday than i do white faces
i do believe we need to secure our borders and the onus for providing jobs and/or education and other social services to unskilled and uneducated people should be on the government of mexico (and others south of the border) rather than on the american taxpayers...i don't believe ILLEGAL immigrants should be given the same opportunities as LEGAL immigrants; now, for those illegals who have been here many years and have successfully assimilated (no, that doesn't mean abandoning their culture; it means learning the language and aspiring to become a citizen) i'm open to a compromise, but that doesn't mean a free pass
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jbar
Mountain climber
Inside my head
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Oct 13, 2008 - 09:37pm PT
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Who ever created a "sliding scale" for racism is barking up the wrong tree. In that scenario there isn't a difference between preferrence, bias, or predjudism of any type. It's all just racist beginning at scale 0 and going up. Maybe on applications they should ask for your racial tolerance number. If I were looking to fill a position for customer service and a guy came to me wearing his hat sideways and couldn't speak in a respectful manner I wouldn't want to hire him so I'm a racist. Not. I'm a fair person. I try to keep bias in the center. I don't give special consideration to anyone based on color or ethnic background. That makes me a racist? It does on the sliding scale. Again, why does preferrence, bias, or predjudism of any type always have to be racist?
And again, The last thing black people want is to have a bunch of rich crackers pretending they know what it's like to be black and shouldering their "cause".
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Oct 13, 2008 - 09:43pm PT
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"Maybe we should look into 'upgrading' Mexico into a succssful and uncorrupted, lawfull economy."
Bookworm I'm all for this, it is certainly part of the long term solution. And your initial response was extremely sarcastic and dumb. Doing a quick survey at your school is hardly a tour in immigration policy, history or necessarily even representative of the country at large.
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JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
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Oct 13, 2008 - 09:46pm PT
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I remember sitting in the grape fields as my parents picked. The white boys would throw rocks and got racial on us.
Juan "Anchor Baby" De Fuca
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Oct 13, 2008 - 10:08pm PT
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"Maybe we should look into 'upgrading' Mexico into a succssful and uncorrupted, lawfull economy."
I said that, HDDJ.
Jbar, "I don't give special consideration to anyone based on color or ethnic background."
I'll second that, and by definition that makes you a practical realist, not a racist. Quite the opposite of a racist actually.
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jbar
Mountain climber
Inside my head
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Oct 13, 2008 - 10:35pm PT
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"I am a firm believer in the people. If given the truth they can be depended upon to meet any national crisis. The great point is to bring them the real facts...and beer."
AL
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dirtbag
climber
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Oct 13, 2008 - 10:38pm PT
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Oct 13, 2008 - 10:42pm PT
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db, WTF is the point of that? That since he and I are prolly both conservatives, we're both racist?
c'mon.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Oct 13, 2008 - 10:47pm PT
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Sorry bluering, your's and book's handles often look the same at a glance. I would still like your comment on my request.
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dirtbag
climber
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Oct 13, 2008 - 10:50pm PT
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"db, WTF is the point of that? That since he and I are prolly both conservatives, we're both racist?
c'mon. "
The point? I hadn't thought about a point, just that the photo was interesting and it seemed as good of a place as any to post it.
I guess if there is a point, it's that a lot of people probably feel this way. But it certainly wasn't directed at anyone here, nor have I ever seen any racist behavior by anyone on this thread and I've read a lot of posts by you and others accused of racism.
I wouldn't say that about all STers, though.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Oct 13, 2008 - 11:02pm PT
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HDDJ, what do you want me to reply to?
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Oct 13, 2008 - 11:40pm PT
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My last real post.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Oct 13, 2008 - 11:57pm PT
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Most immigrants to the U.S., and Canada, came because of economic opportunity or because they were one step ahead of the sherriff. Sometimes both.
Sniffy matron: "My ancestors came over on the Mayflower."
Ordinary citizen: "So what, mine came over after they tightened up the immigrant laws."
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jbar
Mountain climber
Inside my head
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Oct 14, 2008 - 12:11am PT
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"is their any doubt the caucasian male is the most
dangerous creature to ever walk the earth?" A quote from someone who obviously took a "diversity" (white man is the devil) class. Just plain stupid. How can we ever get anywhere thinking like this?
Want a clue about minority? Everywhere I have ever lived in the U.S. white people have been the minority. O.K. maybe not in Nebraska or somewhere in the middle of nowhere like that but take a census of any metropolitan area and see what you find. Even a liberal study states that caucasians will be a true minority status before the next 40 years. Supplanted by the hispanics mostly.
Whats the problem with illegal immigration? since it is illegal it promotes drug trafficking, slavery, sex trade (forced), illegal arms deals, the smuggling of wanted people in and out, etc, etc not to mention the lack of immunizational control, etc. Ever listen to an immigrant's stories about the coyotes? A real and legitimate immigration system that inforces the rules and prevents illegal immigration is a win win situation for both sides.
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WBraun
climber
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Oct 14, 2008 - 12:15am PT
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Materially, there is distinction.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Oct 14, 2008 - 01:16am PT
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This race would be anywhere near a 50/50 proposition if it weren't for race. Republicans Atwater, Reed, and Rove have redefined American society around race and religion for two decades and it's how they have done as well as they have. The only way they know how to acquire or maintain power is by dividing our country - it couldn't be a sadder legacy or future for the party that once offered up an Eisenhower.
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shutupandclimb
climber
So. Cal..............d00d
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Oct 14, 2008 - 01:33am PT
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297 comments
Post a Comment
If The Bradley Effect is Gone, What Happened To It?
It was Tom Bradley's 1982 race for governor of California, in which he lost to George Deukmejian in spite of leading in the public polls, that gave the Bradley Effect its name. But now Lance Tarrance, the pollster for Bradley in that race, has an article up at RCP suggesting that the Bradley Effect was merely a case of bad polling -- and that his campaign's internals had shown a dead heat:
The hype surrounding the Bradley Effect has evolved to where some political pundits believe in 2008 that Obama must win in the national pre-election polls by 6-9 points before he can be assured a victory. That’s absurd. There won’t be a 6-9 point Bradley Effect –- there can’t be, since few national polls show a large enough amount of undecided voters and it's in the undecided column where racism supposedly hides.
The other reason I reject the Bradley Effect in 2008 is because there was not a Bradley Effect in the 1982 California Governor’s race, either. Even though Tom Bradley had been slightly ahead in the polls in 1982, due to sampling error, it was statistically too close to call.
Tarrance's article is a fascinating read into the way that polls are spun and campaign narratives are spread. It is well worth your time to read the entire piece.
With that said, the evidence is pretty strong that the Bradley Effect in fact used to exist in the 1980s and probably through some point in the 1990s.
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bookworm
Social climber
Falls Church, VA
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Oct 14, 2008 - 07:09am PT
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"Doing a quick survey at your school is hardly a tour in immigration policy, history or necessarily even representative of the country at large."
and your point that every ethnic group has been discriminated against in this country is no justification for demanding special treatment for any single group now (i.e. illegal immigrants from south of the border)
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dirtbag
climber
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Oct 16, 2008 - 03:43pm PT
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Yeah, well, if anyone wonders why the Republican Party is the White People's Party, it's because of attitudes like this:
"GOP group depicts Obama with watermelon, ribs
RIVERSIDE, Calif. (AP) -- A San Bernardino County Republican group has distributed a newsletter picturing Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama on a $10 bill adorned with a watermelon, ribs and a bucket of fried chicken."
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/O/OBAMA_ILLUSTRATION?SITE=WWL&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT
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kunlun_shan
Mountain climber
SF, CA
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Oct 16, 2008 - 04:09pm PT
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This thread reminds me of a post I was reading this morning. Wasn't going to point out the issue I noticed, but am now since this topic appeared.
I don't know what exactly this poster is thinking, but it seems he is concerned about the race of Obama. Personally I don't care if the POTUS is black, green, or white - better than some old white guy possibly going to die before his term ends, leaving the nation to be ruled a hillbilly.
Here's the post, from http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.html?topic_id=699339&msg=699339#msg699339
"A little wakeup call, the economy has brought this country into a DEPRESSION, there is a war that is killing thousands, soon the U.S. will have a half black president and presently we have a fascist government and fascist citizens. These are topics as large as 9/11 was. "
Overtly racist? Maybe Chris2 can comment.
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dirtbag
climber
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Oct 16, 2008 - 04:09pm PT
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dirtbag
climber
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Oct 16, 2008 - 04:14pm PT
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"Overtly racist?"
No, it's not racist. For the first time we might have a President who is half black, a huge breakthrough for a country that until a little over 40 years ago would've denied him the right to even vote in many areas. How is such a discussion inherently racist?
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Oct 16, 2008 - 04:19pm PT
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I don't get it, what's wrong with KFC, ribs, and a watermelon dessert?
Mmmmm, tasty!
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kunlun_shan
Mountain climber
SF, CA
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Oct 16, 2008 - 04:40pm PT
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dirtbag wrote: "No, it's not racist.......How is such a discussion inherently racist?"
The way I see it, the OP put a bunch of negative things all together - a depressed economy, "a war that is killing thousands", that we "presently...have a fascist government and fascist citizens" - what does any of this have to with what colour the president is?
Could be a poor choice of words, or something else...just sayin'...
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Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
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Oct 16, 2008 - 06:46pm PT
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I recommend renting the old film Putney Swope.
Its about the token black member of the board of directors of a major Madison Avenue ad agency winning the CEO position inadvertently by default and what changes go down.
Very funny.
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| Messages 1 - 74 of total 74 in this topic |
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