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T2
climber
Cardiff by the sea
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Topic Author's Original Post - Apr 22, 2005 - 09:46am PT
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Eric,
I am curious as to your method of belaying yourself while soloing? Clove hitch, Gri Gri, Silent Partner.
Thanks
Tommy
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Minerals
Social climber
The Deli
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Apr 22, 2005 - 12:26pm PT
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He used to use a clove-hitch but now uses a Silent Partner.
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WBraun
climber
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Apr 22, 2005 - 01:04pm PT
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Man .......Minerals I thought it was Old E 800 that was belaying him.
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John F. Kerry
Social climber
Boston, MA
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Apr 22, 2005 - 03:18pm PT
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"...I don't like the fact that you're trusting your life to one biner..."
No backup knot? Or are you figuring that flying the extra distance to your backup knot is likely to land you on a ledge?
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Apr 23, 2005 - 01:16am PT
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That has been my assessment of the Silent Partner every year when I inevitably go in and fondle one after taking another dive [free climbing] on my grigri. Seems as if there should be a "better way"/device but so far I haven't seen one. I do back up the grigri with a knot but also monitor the biner/grigri/rope alignment more or less relentlessly. I used the YRS knot technique for about 20 years before switching to a grigri and have been pretty happy with the change given the much lower level of cluster f#@k...
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dmitry
Trad climber
Chita, Russia
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Apr 23, 2005 - 11:16am PT
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Put the silent partner up on eBay dude.
I've seen them sell for over $150.00
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T2
climber
Cardiff by the sea
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 23, 2005 - 11:34am PT
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Thanks Klaus,
I used the clove hitch for a couple a routes. Simple enough system. The only draw back that I had with it was when it was time to get out of your aiders and free climb, I didn't like the fact that you have to pay out enough slack to get through the free climbing.
I switched to a Gri Gri for the P.O. wall. Never took a fall, but never really trusted it like I did the clove hitch. Not because of the single binner, I just wasn't sure how it would react to a upside down fall, or something weird like that.
Thanks for your insight Klaus, I am thinking of climbing alone again soon and will probably go back to the clove hitch.
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bringmedeath
climber
la la land
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Apr 23, 2005 - 02:15pm PT
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I've taken a 50 footer upside down. The gri gri caught it fine. I'm not really worried about the 1 biner thing... nor do I really care. But the rope pulling through is kinda a pain!
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Holdplease2
Trad climber
All over
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Apr 23, 2005 - 03:21pm PT
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Suggestion:
To prevent the rope pulling through Without sacrificing rope stretch (if you clove it to a piece) or burning thru the rope (if you use a non-extended prusik instead of an extended klimeheist)... Also, this does not require you carrying several extra prusik/klimeheist kits ala-Pete.
Carry some rubber bands with you, medium office-sized.
When you hit about the 80 foot point, girth hitch a rubber band around the rope, lift the rope a bit, and clip the rubber band into a piece. This bit of tension will be enough to hold the rope up and it will no longer slide thru your grigri.
When you start to jug, the rubber band breaks at the biner as you start to pull the rope tight. You won't even notice this.
When you jug up, remove the broken rubber band from the rope and put it in your pocket or put an overhand knot in the two ends and use it again.
I solo with a Gri Gri, tho I own and have tried a soloist and silent partner. I use a Mammut supersafe, the sheath (perhaps due to special material) has not fuzzed after many routes, and it almost self-feeds thru the grigri when I stand up and need slack. Perfect.
-Kate.
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Rhodo-Router
Trad climber
Otto, NC
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Apr 24, 2005 - 02:13am PT
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Maybe you'd trust a single steel locker better? They're heavy, and people will mistake you for a sport rappeller, but they also are rated to 12,000 lbs or so.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Apr 24, 2005 - 08:55pm PT
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I also solo with a grigri/Mammut SuperSafe combo...
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bringmedeath
climber
la la land
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Apr 24, 2005 - 09:11pm PT
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I used to use the super safe till I cut halfway through it in a fall.
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Gunkie
climber
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Apr 24, 2005 - 09:19pm PT
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I like the Silent Partner particularly when I have to free climb a bit. I had one fall where a nut on the rack got caught up in the running clove hitch and caused me to fall a bit further than expected. I did stop before getting to my back-up knot. I like the rubber band idea by 'Holdplease' as I do tie back-up knots when using the SP. As far as getting clocked in the jaw by it, I put the two locking pear biners through the leg loops and swami belt, not just through a doubled belay/rap ring as many folks do. This seems to keep the device pretty low and tight and away from my mug. And as far as using a single biner on the GriGri, if your partner is belaying you using a single biner, especially if they are doing other things like hauling or stacking ropes [i.e. not paying attention to the biner orientation], what's the difference when soloing with a single biner? I might give the GriGri method a try next weekend.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Apr 25, 2005 - 03:24am PT
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"I used to use the super safe till I cut halfway through it in a fall."
Could you detail this out a bit better...?
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David
Trad climber
San Rafael, CA
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Apr 25, 2005 - 09:57am PT
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The "SoloAid" solves most of the problems people are mentioning doesn't it? Attached with cord so there's no biner to break. There's no rope pull through as you move higher. I don't know...I've heard Mike Ousley recommend it more than once and it seems to make a lot of sense.
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bigwalling
climber
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Apr 25, 2005 - 11:24am PT
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Was soloing with the gri gri(not like that matters) and I took a fall and the rope got cut. It cut right through the sheath and the wasn't even an edge really... more of some really sharp crystals in the rock. luckly it wasn't too far into the rope so I still use it... but I got a stratos for aid now.
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Apr 25, 2005 - 12:46pm PT
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Bigwalling,
What was the rope that got cut?
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David
Trad climber
San Rafael, CA
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Apr 25, 2005 - 01:15pm PT
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I've had partners manage to cut(core shot) both an 11mm Stratos and a Mammut SuperSafe on their very first few days of use. Personally, I don't think there's a huge difference in terms of durability between the two. I used a Maxim 9.9 on my last "wall style" outing and the thing held up beautifully. Just a matter of luck. IMHO
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bringmedeath
climber
la la land
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Apr 25, 2005 - 02:09pm PT
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Ya, the super safe got cut. There is only really a difference in handling I think. Oh also price. I got a 70m stratos for 190 dollars. Supersafe is really expensive. Any rope works as long as you are careful.
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Rhodo-Router
Trad climber
Otto, NC
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Apr 26, 2005 - 12:12am PT
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I recall hearing a story about somebody rope-soloing on the captain who took a fall and their special locker with the plastic-piece-that's-suppposed-to-keep-the-biner-properly-aligned failed--the plastic broke, the grigri side-loaded the biner gate, and the biner failed as well. Caught by the backup knot.
This ring a bell for anyone?
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Holdplease2
Trad climber
All over
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Apr 26, 2005 - 01:52am PT
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Rings a bell, Rhodo, its in the 2003 ANAM...
The biner with the plastic thing to prevent cross-loading is the DMM BelayMaster or BelaySlave or something like that.
But he wasn't using the plastic thing, it had broken off before the climb, from what I recall. It also seems like when he got back up to the grigri (which was still hanging on the rope) it was deformed somehow.
-Kate.
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Ammon
Big Wall climber
Lake Arrowhead
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Apr 26, 2005 - 02:07am PT
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Ok, I have a few questions for Klaus.
What are you going to make “us” do next?
My favorite quote from McCray while climbing an early ascent of yours. Actually he said, "WHAT is "HE" going to make us do next?" It was looking grim since Brian doesn't swill OE....
One more.... Did you REALLY have to put that creepy Colt45 can (with all the bullet holes) in the most ominous place on PSD?
Com’on bro, that wasn’t nice how you left the funkness biner clipped to it, insuring that the next party “MUST” body weight the “hourglass” of the hook below the spine.
These are the questions from a madman… trying to climb a madman’s routes!!
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Apr 26, 2005 - 05:48am PT
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I use a grigri with a screamer at the anchor. I anchor the end of the rope like normal, then put a figure ei..., er - sorry Pete - I mean an Alpine Butterfly in the rope about three feet up from the anchor and throw the screamer between that and the anchor. That way you have the best of both worlds, rope to the anchor and a screamer.
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T2
climber
Cardiff by the sea
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Topic Author's Reply - Apr 26, 2005 - 10:40am PT
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Hey Ammon
I was climbing the Shortest Straw while you and Brian did Plastic Surgery in a push, was the colt 45 can where one of you guys took that whipper in the evening?
It was really cool to watch you guys climb that route. I got to witness all kinds of big wall climbing emotions in action and up close, that weren't mine or my partners. There was hootin and holleran goin on early down low. There was a whipper with a freakin big rock fall that had you guys yellin more than just "ROCK", to anyone that may have been at the base. But the best was in the evening. I could sense stress in the leaders tone, then wham that distinct sound of clanking rack that happens when shiit is going bad. How was that whipper that night? From my house (or portaledge) it looked to be 40 or 50. I got to hand it to you. You guys are BAD ASS!
Respectfully,
Tommy T
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macgyver
Social climber
Oregon, but now in Europe
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Apr 26, 2005 - 10:46am PT
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I use a system nearly identical to the one mentioned by Healyje.
1) Grigri with clove hitch back up
2) Rope anchored with haul bag acting as counter weight to give a mini dynamic belay.
3) Lastly, a butterfly and screamer combo so even if the screamer blew I would still be falling onto the rope.
Everything except the rope is redundant. Also I have my big pear with a tiny webbing loop on the waist belt of my misty mountain harness so it stay orientated in the right way ALWAYS.
Rock on
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Ammon
Big Wall climber
Lake Arrowhead
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Apr 26, 2005 - 06:53pm PT
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Cool Tommy T-
Yeah, that was me who whipped. Down low that was me hooting it up right after I got to an old rusty 1/4" rivet. It was the first "real" piece of gear on the pitch (The Surfboard pitch)… scary.
Going out the Devils Brow was pretty crazy. I kept thinking I was lost because I couldn't see the anchors. Lots of tipped out beaks and then you have to bust a few scary free moves to the anchors. The first time a beak pulled and I whipped.
Ha, haa... had to have been cool to watch. I was still pretty new at that sort of thing and definitely felt like I was “in” over my head.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Oakville, Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Apr 26, 2005 - 07:30pm PT
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"I was still pretty new at that sort of thing and definitely felt like I was “in” over my head."
Ay. Only one way to learn though, eh?
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deuce4
Social climber
Pagosa Springs CO
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Apr 26, 2005 - 08:42pm PT
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Good judgement comes from experience,
but
experience comes from poor judgement.
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Dirk
climber
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Apr 27, 2005 - 05:27pm PT
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Re: not backing up the Gri-Gri until you're near the end of the rope...
I've taken solo falls and had the CF on my harness catch the Gri-Gri lever. This is my biggest gripe with the Gri-Gri, even though I tie my back-up knots every 20-60 feet that can still be 20-60 feet too far, sometimes. Still my favorite system.
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jack herer
climber
chico, ca
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Apr 28, 2005 - 03:51pm PT
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when soloing with the other end of the rope, do ya'll just put it in a small bag and clip it to your harness? or is there some special way of attaching the extra rope to ya. ive done a few aid pitches solo but never properly learned how. ive just been stuffing it in a stuff sack and clipping it to my harness but the weight sucks :/
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ricardo
Gym climber
San Francisco, CA
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Jun 22, 2005 - 04:27pm PT
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jack:
.. i use a continous loop ..
my lead line is attached to the anchor -> grigri on my harness -> backup knot -> tied to the haul line -> haul line to anchor.
one big loop
both lines sit in their own rope bags at the anchor.
most of the time it works great .. if the pitch traverses early you'll most like pull the lead line out of the bag and it will pull the haul line out of the bag ... and you'll hate life
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Oakville, Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Jun 22, 2005 - 06:37pm PT
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The scenario Ricardo describes is even more interesting when your lead rope is in a bag on a fifi halfway up the pitch, along with the rest of your gear on a Solo Tag Rack. Fortunately the weight of the zipping-out lead rope has never been enough to pop the rack off the hook.
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ricardo
Gym climber
San Francisco, CA
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Jun 22, 2005 - 07:15pm PT
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.. that is one part of "the better way" that i'd rather just leave on the buffet table ... (tagging)
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couchmaster
climber
pdx
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Oct 23, 2013 - 10:44pm PT
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Good stuff on this thread bump. Things were different back in 2005? Now it's all politics, politic and hating on others. Back in the day folks actually climbed:-)
recyled:-)
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RyanD
climber
Squamish
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Oct 23, 2013 - 11:14pm PT
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Solid bump
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T2
climber
Cardiff by the sea
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Topic Author's Reply - Oct 24, 2013 - 12:21am PT
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Things were different back in 2005? Now it's all politics, politic and hating on others.
And is why I lurk more than posting these days. Still enjoy the climbing topics though
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ß Î Ø T Ç H
Boulder climber
extraordinaire
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Oct 24, 2013 - 01:18am PT
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Question for Klaus When you gunna tell us about Lost Again?
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Oct 24, 2013 - 12:45pm PT
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Having just completed my first solo in a long long time, here's what worked and didn't work for me:
 I self-belayed with a regular Grigri on 11mm rope, plus a backup knot
I used long upside-down Klemheist rebelays about three or four times per pitch. These worked superbly! Not only did they prevent unnoticed and unwanted slack from slipping through the Grigri, they also rebelay the rope during cleaning. Properly tensioned, what this means is that when you clean, your weight is taken by each subsequent Klemheist directly above you, and not the upper anchor. So instead of the rope rubbing across edges all the way up the pitch while you jug and clean, you can prevent it from rubbing *anywhere* with the Klemheists! What this meant was that I started my solo with a brand new unabraded rope, and I finished with a brand new unabraded rope!
This method above kicks the sh|t out of any other system like rubber bands or duct tape because of its simplicity [easy once you get the hang of it] and the rope rebelay benefits
I brought a separate mountaineering half rope, and used this as a double tag. I had two piglets side by side on fifis [the new style with the slots, thanks to Mark Hugedong for introducing me to these, and to Mike for giving me his to use equipped with the quick links!] and I backed them up with my slippery overhand knot invention. As I rapped to clean the pitch, a hundred pounds of weight went up for free.
This double tagging system was fundamental to the enjoyment of my big wall camping system! I only blew it once, but once I got it dialled it worked pretty much perfectly. HIGHLY RECOMMENDED
I was using a 60m rope, instead of my usual 75m rope or so. What this meant that it was problematical tagging a load up to mid-pitch. This is because the load is too heavy to do by hand, and I had to put the lead rope through a Micro-Trax to haul it up. But the rope was too short, and limited when I could do it. It was also too much of a pain to set up an anchor mid pitch
Accordingly, I would just throw my whole lead rack on when I started the pitch. Only a few times did I have to rap back to the anchor to grab more stuff. I found it asphyxiating wearing so much crap at the start of each lead - I could hardly even breathe, let alone move! This might have been the part of soloing I hated the most.
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FrankZappa
Trad climber
Hankster's crew
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Oct 24, 2013 - 02:47pm PT
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use no backup knots until you get close to the end of the rope
Anyone remember when Ben Z. was doing this (without the backup knots) on Zodiac and as he was closing in on peanut ledge he felt the end of the rope zipping through the Gri-gri and dropping into space??
He got to aid "free solo" the last 30ft or so to the ledge. He had a haul rope; don't know why he didn't bother using it for a belay...
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