Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
| Messages 1 - 39 of total 39 in this topic |
shutupandclimb
climber
Palm Desert Ca.
|
|
|
Topic Author's Original Post - Oct 7, 2008 - 05:07pm PT
|
I would guess that on the average, I take real falls on gear 4-6 times a year. By a real fall, I mean a legit whipper, not plugging in a piece and yelling take. Sunday I took a fall on a route that I have climbed numerous times without problem. It is a slabby route and I Hit an outcrop which flipped me into a headfirst orientation. This is the first time that this has happened to me in over ten years of at least 2-3 days a week climbing. I don't normally wear a helmet unless I am in an alpine setting. I am considering changing this.
How often do you folks fall? What was your best/worse? how recently was your last fall?
|
|
Blakeb
Big Wall climber
Ashland, Oregon
|
|
I fall about twice a month, and when i read your post i started thinking that this is not many falls at all, when i use to pursue sport climbing i pushed myself to the point of falling more frequently and so i believe that i must not be pushing myself very hard when climbing on gear. SO, maybe the reason i am not climbing harder, has nothing to do with alcohol consumption and fat around my mid section, and more that i am not pushing myself to try harder routes because maybe i dont like falling, i have never had a bad fall so why do i dislike and tend to climb routes i feel confident on. I also dont wear my helmet all that frequently and have been reconsidering because my friend recently took a 20 footer on to his head and probably would not have survived if not wearing a helmet.
|
|
Blakeb
Big Wall climber
Ashland, Oregon
|
|
I fell off the couch last night, i fear no beer, its the floor that hurts
|
|
happiegrrrl
Trad climber
New York, NY
|
|
I try not to fall. I like to succeed and haven't reprogrammed myself ala Warriors Way to see falling as a success....hahaha.
I took a 20 or so foot fall a month or so ago, on Moonlight at the Gunks(p1, at the lieback section). The route was wet and that section was very wet. I didn't want to commit to the strenuous lieback, and was trying to make the move straight on instead. Bad idea....
I barn-doored and couldn't swing it back. My foot clipped the rope at the last placement and began taking me backwards. My partner (first time climbing together) had commented about my non-helmeted head and I was like 'I can't hit my head! She'll be right!!!!" I seriously had time to think that and I remember making an effort to swim upstream as I was going down. As the rope caught me, it righted me upwards.
It was on double ropes and the stretch was quite long. Came very close to a ledge system, but stopped a few feet above it. Surprising, since my foot was not very far above the last piece of gear placed.
Anyway, it ended up as a completely clean fall, luckily. My partner was pretty freaked out about it though. I think the rope in the system and stretch sort of took her by surprise. I got the tightest wedgie belay climbing back to the gear!
|
|
Anastasia
climber
Not there
|
|
I thought gear was used only as protection, it is there "if" you fall. Gear is not something that one should feel solid about falling on without regard. I was taught that when you lead, falling shouldn't be an option.
That is why I rarely fall on my gear and yes... I also rarely lead hard climbs. (Yes, I am a too chicken to do anything else.) When I do need to push the limits, I do it on top rope where falling is not an issue.
AF
|
|
Jaybro
Social climber
wuz real!
|
|
Pretty much every time I climb at my limit I take some falls. That's how I know it's my limit...
|
|
Gary Carpenter
climber
SF Bay Area
|
|
Riley,
I took a fall at the same place on Sacherer a couple of years ago before we started training for off-width. Got almost to the top but couldn't quite make it...slid down and bounced off the chockstone. The fall was clean and the pro was a sling on the chockstone. That fall was to motivation to build the OW crack machine.
|
|
shutupandclimb
climber
Palm Desert Ca.
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 7, 2008 - 05:59pm PT
|
I guess for me, falling is part of the game. I know when my gear is good, and the rewards are definitely greater when you truly find the edge of your personal envelope. Falling is ALWAYS scary,but the feeling of elation and the maniacal laughter that follow are Sooooooooooooooo gOOd.
|
|
Dwain
Trad climber
Apple Valley, California
|
|
Annie;
You beat me to it.
OLD SCHOOL Tradition was,
that you didn't fall on trad gear.
Top rope is a different matter.
That's when I push myself, and do really hard stuff I may fall on.
Don't get me wrong, I HAVE fallen on gear, but every time it's been something that had nothing to do with how hard it was.
ie; holds breaking off, belayer pulling me off, swift buzzing me and actually hitting me in the face.
In 44 years of climbing, I have probably fallen 15 to 20 times.
Dwain
|
|
August West
Trad climber
Where the wind blows strange
|
|
Unexpected whipper, less than one a year. But what is a "real" fall. Way back when I was trying to redpoint five and dime, I fell the first dozen or two times I tried it. Some were "takes" when I wimped out instead of going for it, but mostly I placed a couple of pieces, went for the crux and [predictably] popped off. Maybe ~ten foot fall or so. Hardly a whipper, but not sagging down on a piece a waist level. However, it has been a while since I've been in that sort of red point, trad mode.
|
|
rhyang
climber
SJC
|
|
Curious to know if any of you who have had spinal fusions have had any advice from your surgeon about taking lead falls .. I was pretty much of the 'leader must not fall' mindset prior to my surgery, and even moreso now.
I led ice before trad, and that is definitely the attitude people have on that medium (lead fall on ice usually = broken ankle). I have a hard time shaking it even if I am leading something with bolts.
|
|
bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
|
|
On lead I fall less than once a year. Less than that on gear. I've only taken small falls on gear and had it stick, I plan to keep it that way.
|
|
Lynne Leichtfuss
Social climber
valley center, ca
|
|
Too bad you added on gear..... : )) guess mosh pits don't apply.
|
|
GOclimb
Trad climber
Boston, MA
|
|
Rarely. Very rarely.
GO
|
|
healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
|
|
I tend to fall fairly regularly and took an unexpected 40-50' dive not to long ago on an FA project. It all worked out fine in the end as it always seems to - to date, anyway. Coming from an early history of mostly overhangs and roofs, the whole 'must not fall thing' is pretty weird to me...
|
|
hoipolloi
climber
A friends backyard with the neighbors wifi
|
|
I don't fall all that often, not as often as I wish I could sack up and do, but I find myself climbing with the mentality mentioned. Sometimes I wish it wasn't so, but, oh well..
My biggest fall was at this place in Spain called Riglos. If you have climbed at the Pinnacles, it is almost identical to that type of rock(s). The main difference is Riglos has many climbs anywhere from 5-10 pitches.
We set out to do this route that moves up a steep section of wall into a big deep alcove, cave type hole, then traverses out and up into a massive 4-5 pitch 2 to 3 foot wide chimeny. When I was leading out of the alcove traversing left and moving upwards I quickly became aware of how runout and pumpy the climbing was, pulling over multiple bulges on big huge round river rocks. It was a blast.
As I pulled over the last bulge to get to a stance where you would clip an old 1/4incher, the rock (big river rock welded into the mud-like cement rock that holds them all together, you know what I mean), I had both hands on this rock, move my left off of it, and BOOM. The entire stone blew out of the side of the cliff and I went FLYING. I was about 10-15 feed to the left and 20ish feet above my last piece (an old bolt in one of these river rocks equalized to a horizontal yellow TCU). Thank god the thing held but I took a massive penji and banged the sh#t out of my right knee on this giant river rock sticking straight out of the wall. It was pretty brutal, I ended up about 15-20 feet below my belayer. I thought i blew my knee up, in the end it was just real swollen and kinda f*#ked up but no permanent damage.
I don't know that it really effected my attitude towards falling, hell, if Im going to fall, thats how I like it to happen, by surprise and suddenly, no time to think about it.
Lets see if I can get a few photos posted of Riglos..
The main formation, you can see "El Purro," a freestanding needle in front of the main formation at center.
The lesser formation set
The guy seconding is 74 years old, and climbing sold 5.10 climbing. He started putting up routes at this place in the 50's with hemp shoes and wooden pitons.
Me loving life..
Anyways, sorry to hijack the thread a little.
|
|
Shimanilami
Trad climber
San Jose, CA
|
|
When I'm sport climbing, I fall - and I don't mean take, I mean whip - probably half a dozen times a day. When you're climbing right at your limit, it's inevitable.
When I'm trad cragging, it's less ... perhaps twice a day. Some may think this is a lot, but I'm climbing on granite and I know how to protect myself ... only one broken ankle so far. (I somehow managed to catch the only knob within site with my foot.)
When I'm climbing multipitch or alpine, I try a lot harder to avoid falling.
|
|
le_bruce
climber
Oakland: what's not to love?
|
|
One fall this week, Farewell to Arms @ Donner, onto a yellow Alien.
I was spit out of the top, crux crack onto the last piece I placed before it - wasn't even close to climbing it clean.
The raspberried hands I'm typing with now tell the grim story. Cracks that take red Aliens and .75 BDs = evil, even if it's only for 15 ft.
|
|
shutupandclimb
climber
Palm Desert Ca.
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 7, 2008 - 09:53pm PT
|
Thanks 4 the feedback. When I sport climb I fall all the time as well. I was thinking 4-6 real lead falls a year isn't that many. It looks like we're all over the place. That's the beauty of our sport I guess. Strangely enough (or not) I see the most injuries in bouldering accidents. I have still to seriously hurt myself in a climbing accident..........no broken bones, or even sprains for that matter. I have never had a piece rip either.
|
|
Anastasia
climber
Not there
|
|
Pieces have ripped on me because of bad placements. Sometimes it was because I didn't have any pieces left that fit... Sometimes it was just my lack of skill...
Yet my worst injury was falling four inches onto uneven ground which twisted and broke my ankle.
|
|
shutupandclimb
climber
Palm Desert Ca.
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 7, 2008 - 10:55pm PT
|
Sorry to hear that Anastasia...................Murphy's Law?
|
|
neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
|
|
hey there locker... say, saw your website... neat, very nicely done....
work and prosper, there, locker... :)
|
|
looking sketchy there...
Social climber
Latitute 33
|
|
Common at the sport crag, rarely on trad...
No more than 6-7 times a day.
|
|
shutupandclimb
climber
So. Cal..............d00d
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 8, 2008 - 12:26pm PT
|
Thanks for the thoughtful response. I have never really had the aversion to slab climbing that many seem to suffer from, but after an inverted slabby fall, the seed may be planted.
I am going to continue to do gear routes, but for the next little while, probably stick to the steeper stuff. That can be challenging
at josh.
|
|
tolman_paul
Trad climber
Anchorage, AK
|
|
I'm a climber, not a faller. As I recall I've only taken two lead falls, one on gear, one on bolts. Now top roping, or hanging, that's a different matter.
As I solo and run it out on occasions, I find it a bad practice to make a habit of falling.
|
|
Dr. Rock
Ice climber
http://tinyurl.com/4oa5br
|
|
If I fall, I am dead so you won't know if I fell or not because of the remote nature of the climbs and the hungry coyotes that start with your thighs, because thats where the most meat is.
You know whats ironic, if you fall, you go to heaven, hopefully, so you make a complete 180.
If not, you just keep on going.
Right through the bedrock.
|
|
Anastasia
climber
Not there
|
|
Shutupandclimb...
Murphy's law? No, It was actually my stupidity. I knew the ground was uneven. I was offered a pad to even it out and... I was being prideful and snubbed my nose at the offer. "We all know pride comes before a fall."
Anyway, Shutupandclimb... I need to climb with you. I am very guilty of talking more than climbing. I need someone like you to tell me to shut up and climb!
Smiles,
AF
|
|
Dwain
Trad climber
Apple Valley, California
|
|
"I see the most injuries in bouldering accident"
That is how I broke my back in 2000,
When a hold broke off when I was doing a highball problem.
Dwain
|
|
adventurous one
Trad climber
reno nev.
|
|
I still hate falling. About 25 falls, exclusive of hanging, over the past 26 years of climbing. Probably would fall more if I were willing to really push my limits on lead. I tend to never attempt free climbing trad leads unless I am pretty confident of getting it on the first go, as I believe that you only have one shot at truly succeeding "fairly". (I also am a chicken compared to many on this forum, so this theory works well for my ego) So, about an average of once a year. Maybe a dozen or so of those falls were due to broken holds on first ascents. Nothing longer than 25' and nothing more serious than a broken foot. A head first 22 footer stopping 3' short of decking maybe being the most memorable.
Have witnesed several occasions where the pro has failed during a fall, luckily no tragic consequences. This has reinforced my early schooling that the best way to climb is as though there is no rope and down climbing is the only option of retreat on lead. Always back up even "good" gear placements when a groundfall is possible. We all know that, right? Scares me when I see experienced sport climbers switch to trad and never back up placements as though they were as bomber as a bolt. Toproping is the place to push yourself to the point of failure imo. Glad to see so many others here adhereing to the old motto that "the leader must never fall".
edit- The worst fall I ever took was on a descent falling less than 10' onto my back on a granite outcropping, and that one shattered my back and almost ended my climbing career about six years ago. That is kinda how life really is. Rarely does anyone fall on heinous runouts. It is being inattentive on "easy" routes, or descents, that usually get us.
|
|
originalpmac
Trad climber
|
|
I fall relatively often, fell about four or five times just the other day on a single pitch roof crack, real clean except the rope behind my leg at one point gave me some nasty rope burn, hopefully won't do that again.
I have grown up in the age when climbing is safe and sex isn't, so I have taken a few whippers. I got off route in the Sandias the other day however and found myself in the midst of rotten barely if at all 10a climbing, and that got me pretty frazzled, doing hard moves ten feet past a manky old machine bolt with sundried webbing girth hitched to it, with that ten feet above a stopper in rotten rock all over top a sloping ledge. i thought I was going to break my legs as looking an epic.
|
|
shutupandclimb
climber
So. Cal..............d00d
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 8, 2008 - 11:06pm PT
|
Anytime Anastasia. I will be out both days this weekend with friends in Josh. Come join us. It's great to share the fun!\
Cheers!
|
|
snowhazed
Trad climber
Oaksterdam, CA
|
|
I fall often at the creek, and on occasion in the Sierra's- but only into space- slabs, ledges, etc.- no falls allowed.
|
|
Double D
climber
|
|
I've only taken a handful of leader falls over the years but...
they've all been really comical mistakes on stuff below my ability. One of my nicknames was "Sky Pilot” from such mishaps. Stupid stuff like stepping on the rope, getting it caught around my leg and proceeding to pull my foot off, etc. The funniest one was on Outer Limits getting to the belay I decided to reach over and mantle the ledge instead of just climbing five feet higher and stepping over and of course I had confidently run it out. Lets just say I popped off the mantle and before I even knew what was going on I was negotiating righting myself as I flew through the air. Although I’ve fallen on harder stuff, it’s usually very short. These days I’ve been rope-soloing a lot and I don’t really push it, but today I did take a short top-rope fall from following a roped solo lead. I was running late for work and rushed through the section with the wrong sequence and simply got too pumped when my back up knot (loop) got caught. Even on sport routes I’m a wimp about falling and avoid it at all costs.
|
|
Dr. Rock
Ice climber
http://tinyurl.com/4oa5br
|
|
Just thought of a cool invention.
Use airbag technology.
You wear a suit with two thin membranes as the material.
When a fall triggers the inflater, you are instantly covered with a protective bubble suit.
Screw it.
It would probably make it worse.
Instead of a thirty footer, you would bounce like a bowling ball on crack, all the way to San Berdoo and back.
Plus, the heat from the hot gas would roast you like a Cornish Game Hen, my favorite Boy Scout food.
Anybody remember Bordens Milkshakes in a can?
Elsie on the label?
Those were like Gold to backpackers.
They replace money.
You could get a Joe Blob from the Scoutmaster with a six pack of stolen shakes.
|
|
shutupandclimb
climber
So. Cal..............d00d
|
|
|
Topic Author's Reply - Oct 9, 2008 - 12:56am PT
|
Hi Dan,
You put up Crest Jewel Drct with Steve right? Great job. I hear it was the first five star route put up in the valley for 15-20 yrs.
I tried to do the linkup this year :arches to CJ direct, but my partner bailed..................Shoot! Maybe in the spring.
|
|
mongrel
Trad climber
Truckee, CA
|
|
A few decades ago we taught a great friend to climb, and he became very strong at it, rock, ice, whatever. But it always worried me that he just fell too often. It was a different context then, not long out of the hip belay era. Then one year he fell on the non-crux part of a stout climb in the UK....and the rope cut in a tiny flake.
"Freak" things do happen just every so often in falls. You really want to minimize them, except in situations where you are pretty sure you have controlled all the "freak" risks to as close to zero as possible. It's good to get practice downclimbing from difficult spots, and up and down to try it different ways, you get really strong, and it increases confidence when things are truly sketchy and you cannot just take on a bomber piece or bolt.
That said, I've logged some good air time over the many years, twice going about 65+ ft on slabs, once 30+ ft on ice (1972 or 73 - whereupon I decided this was not OK and have not fallen on ice, lead or TR, since then), maybe 4 or 5 other real falls (longer than sport length). Works out to an average of about one real fall per 5 years. Sport length falls (bolt or pro not much lower than feet), up to a couple a year. Falling is fun! but just not a good idea to do too much. There are plenty of situations to push your limits, but if you don't practice a mindset of not falling, which generally means also practicing some downclimbing from cruxes, there's a whole host of great R and R/X climbs out there, and first ascents waiting, that you really ought not to be doing. And that's a loss. That stuff is REALLY fun.
For me, the biggest adrenaline shot ever came from an incident where the rope never got weighted: slid a few feet on a slab, pro way far below, but managed to hit a foothold and not tip over. Hooo boy, unforgettable heartstopper.
|
|
HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
|
|
I fell three times in the gym today.
(two were intentional)
I usually don't fall but I'm trying to get better at doing it. Hopefully today helped.
|
|
Dr. Rock
Ice climber
http://tinyurl.com/4oa5br
|
|
I'm afraid I am going to have to report you to the Tempe Police.
No intestinal falls allowed.
Please don't say these were lead falls?
And quit smackin the crash pad.
It disrupts my concentration, decked three times all righty, I'm out.
|
|
Ceramiclover
Trad climber
sioux falls, SD
|
|
|
Nov 30, 2008 - 12:50pm PT
|
I would be interested to know what people's experiences are with taking lead falls on pitons. I have searched the forums and have not seen much discussion on this. I have read that they are only meant for upward progression and body weight, though this seems antithetical to, for instance, the A1 rating's implication that these pieces can take any lead fall.
I only have about 500 feet of nailing under my belt, and would appreciate any illumination.
|
|
| Messages 1 - 39 of total 39 in this topic |
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|
Let us know!