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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Topic Author's Original Post - Sep 28, 2008 - 04:05pm PT
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The Palin Problem
By Kathleen Parker
Sunday, September 28, 2008; Page B07
If at one time women were considered heretical for swimming upstream against feminist orthodoxy, they now face condemnation for swimming downstream -- away from Sarah Palin.
To express reservations about her qualifications to be vice president -- and possibly president -- is to risk being labeled anti-woman.
Or, as I am guilty of charging her early critics, supporting only a certain kind of woman.
Some of the passionately feminist critics of Palin who attacked her personally deserved some of the backlash they received. But circumstances have changed since Palin was introduced as just a hockey mom with lipstick -- what a difference a financial crisis makes -- and a more complicated picture has emerged.
As we've seen and heard more from John McCain's running mate, it is increasingly clear that Palin is a problem. Quick study or not, she doesn't know enough about economics and foreign policy to make Americans comfortable with a President Palin should conditions require her promotion.
Yes, she recently met and turned several heads of state as the U.N. General Assembly convened in New York. She was gracious, charming and disarming. Men swooned. Pakistan's president wanted to hug her. (Perhaps Osama bin Laden is dying to meet her?)
And, yes, she has common sense, something we value. And she's had executive experience as a mayor and a governor, though of relatively small constituencies (about 6,000 and 680,000, respectively).
Finally, Palin's narrative is fun, inspiring and all-American in that frontier way we seem to admire. When Palin first emerged as John McCain's running mate, I confess I was delighted. She was the antithesis and nemesis of the hirsute, Birkenstock-wearing sisterhood -- a refreshing feminist of a different order who personified the modern successful working mother.
Palin didn't make a mess cracking the glass ceiling. She simply glided through it.
It was fun while it lasted.
Palin's recent interviews with Charles Gibson, Sean Hannity and now Katie Couric have all revealed an attractive, earnest, confident candidate. Who Is Clearly Out Of Her League.
No one hates saying that more than I do. Like so many women, I've been pulling for Palin, wishing her the best, hoping she will perform brilliantly. I've also noticed that I watch her interviews with the held breath of an anxious parent, my finger poised over the mute button in case it gets too painful. Unfortunately, it often does. My cringe reflex is exhausted.
Palin filibusters. She repeats words, filling space with deadwood. Cut the verbiage, and there's not much content there. Here's but one example of many from her interview with Hannity:
"Well, there is a danger in allowing some obsessive partisanship to get into the issue that we're talking about today. And that's something that John McCain, too, his track record, proving that he can work both sides of the aisle, he can surpass the partisanship that must be surpassed to deal with an issue like this."
When Couric pointed to polls showing that the financial crisis had boosted Obama's numbers, Palin blustered wordily: "I'm not looking at poll numbers. What I think Americans at the end of the day are going to be able to go back and look at track records and see who's more apt to be talking about solutions and wishing for and hoping for solutions for some opportunity to change, and who's actually done it?"
If BS were currency, Palin could bail out Wall Street herself.
If Palin were a man, we'd all be guffawing, just as we do every time Joe Biden tickles the back of his throat with his toes. But because she's a woman -- and the first ever on a Republican presidential ticket -- we are reluctant to say what is painfully true.
What to do?
McCain can't repudiate his choice of running mate. He not only risks the wrath of the GOP's unforgiving base, but he invites others to second-guess his executive decision-making ability. Barack Obama faces the same problem with Biden.
Only Palin can save McCain, her party and the country she loves. She can bow out for personal reasons, perhaps because she wants to spend more time with her newborn. No one would criticize a mother who puts her family first.
Do it for your country.
Kathleen Parker is syndicated by theWashington Post Writers Group. Her e-mail address iskparker@kparker.com.
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Flashlight
climber
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Sep 28, 2008 - 07:23pm PT
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Wow. Original. A Palin-hater copy/pastes an article.
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Captain...or Skully
Big Wall climber
Nunya, America
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Sep 28, 2008 - 07:34pm PT
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I don't hate her, I just think she's LAME....
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Flashlight
climber
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Sep 28, 2008 - 07:37pm PT
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You didn't copy/paste the article either. :)
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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Sep 28, 2008 - 07:46pm PT
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You are missing the point fleshlight.
Kathleen Parker is not exactly a left wing bleeding heart liberal-- actually she's a right winger.
George will has also expressed reservations about Palin.
So have MANY republicans, who have had the misfortune to listen to her talk on subjects she knows NOTHING about.
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Flashlight
climber
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Sep 28, 2008 - 08:17pm PT
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George Will and Kathleen Parker "masquerade" as conservatives.
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Ouch!
climber
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Sep 28, 2008 - 08:32pm PT
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That Katy Couric interview was devastating. That was scary as hell. Redeems poor Dan Quayle as the dumbest hammer in the sack.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Sep 28, 2008 - 08:42pm PT
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"George Will and Kathleen Parker "masquerade" as conservatives."
What do you know. A conservative trying to undercut the character of the person speaking instead of the substance of what they were saying.
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Mtnmun
Trad climber
Top of the Mountain Mun
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Sep 29, 2008 - 12:05am PT
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Is there a problem with left wing bleeding heart liberals? I'm proud to be a liberal. :^)= Climbing!
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Flashlight
climber
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Sep 29, 2008 - 12:23am PT
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Not attacking their character, just saying they aren't what others claim they are.
Parker just doesn't like her because her verbal delivery isn't Reaganesque...big deal? Where is the "substance" in that?
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dirtbag
climber
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Sep 29, 2008 - 12:28am PT
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Show us one coherent thought in the Couric interviews. Just ONE coherent thought.
I'm not asking for slick interviews, charisma, etc.
How about some slight indication of a knowledge base about national issues? Is that too much to ask from someone trying to be PRESIDENT?
Good luck there.
F*#K John McCain. Patriot my ass, selecting her was about the worst thing he could do for his country. What a pathetic sell out.
He chose a complete f*#king ditz. Good job John!
I actually liked McCain before this (though I disagreed with him on most issues.) No more.
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stevep
Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
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Sep 29, 2008 - 12:36am PT
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Actually, Parker seems to be just as concerned about the content -- "Totally Out of Her League" was the quote.
And saying Will is not a conservative? Apparently better representation are blowhards like Limbaugh, Coulter and Hannity?
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Flashlight
climber
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Sep 29, 2008 - 12:39am PT
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Why don't you blowhards spend more time building up YOUR guy? Show us why we should vote FOR him. How is Obama better than McCain? Your entire campaign here on ST is criticizing Palin, the VP nominee?
That is pretty strong.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Sep 29, 2008 - 12:49am PT
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Because people already know how great our guy is. It's way more fun to point out how hilariously awful yours is.
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dirtbag
climber
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Sep 29, 2008 - 12:49am PT
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Covered in another thread, Jody. Dig it up and comment.
You Lois and others said that since McCain picked her, your enthusiasm for McCain shot way up.
You guys are the ones humping her leg.
Well, look at what you are getting: a total ditz to hold the highest office in the world. Way to go.
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Flashlight
climber
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Sep 29, 2008 - 12:53am PT
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Nice way to avoid answering the question.
Where did I ever say my enthusiasm for McCain shot way up?
I am STILL not voting for McCain, I just want you guys to show what Obama has over McCain.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Sep 29, 2008 - 12:57am PT
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Judgement, thoughtfulness, coolheadedness and the lack of a giant bucket of right wing loonies demanding that he do stupid crap backing him up. Experience in the world outside the political and economic elite in the last 30 years also a plus.
(Also a VP that isn't laid out flat by questions like "what evidence can you give that John McCain is a maverick?")
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dirtbag
climber
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Sep 29, 2008 - 01:05am PT
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Jody you said you loved Palin. Glad you're not voting for McCain, but this is your gal speaking.
And again, dig up the other threads rather than change the subject.
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WBraun
climber
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Sep 29, 2008 - 01:11am PT
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She's stupid .....
Boo hoo, there goes the credibility ......
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Flashlight
climber
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Sep 29, 2008 - 01:18am PT
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Knott changing the subject dirtbag, just wondering why it is that 99+% of the stuff coming from you Obama worshippers is criticism of the Republican VP nominee. You never(without telling me to search for it on ST) espouse the virtues of your saviour. You never speak of what an awesome choice Biden is.
Personally, I WOULD vote for Palin if she was at the top of the ticket. I am sick and tired of career politicians running things. Someone new and less polished going to Washington is a good thing.
Every politician from the beginning of time has run on a platform of "change" yet they always do things the same old way. Obama campaigns for "change" and picks a VP that has been in the Senate for 35 friggin' years. Change?
Lois: Affirmative, I am he. :)
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WBraun
climber
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Sep 29, 2008 - 01:23am PT
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Obama's no good either, but at least he isn't an azzhole like McCain.
America needs a real honest to goodness leader. Not some party sheep dog.
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WBraun
climber
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Sep 29, 2008 - 01:30am PT
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It's dark outside and Jody needed a flashlight to see and then ...
Eureka! He see's the light and says "I am Flashlight"
It's not so hard ........
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dirtbag
climber
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Sep 29, 2008 - 01:30am PT
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Jody,
Now that I think about it, I believe VP selection has become the number one issue. I had a lot of problems with Palin when she was selected. She's far exceeded my initial misgivings. She scares the hell out of me. That's no joke.
She can't say what she (or McCain) wants to do with the US in her own words, Why? Because she's clueless! She doesn't know anything about the issues. NOTHING.
And you support that?
She's running for VP. She needs to know something!!! And she's articulated NOTHING, NOTHING that demonstrates any knowledge of the crises we are facing.
Yes, I would much rather have Obama as President on this issue alone (along with others). Biden is a gaffeomatic, but he also has a 30 year plus record and command of issues foreign and domestic. It was a careful choice that not only shows his willingness to score political points, but also to leave the country in good hands if he should die in office.
Palin, on the other hand, keeps an eye on Russian Planes and believes the bailout will help healthcare.
I've never cared about VP selections Rep or Dem because they've all been basically somewhat competent.
This one matters!
We'd be in deep, deep trouble if she gets in.
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Flashlight
climber
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Sep 29, 2008 - 01:31am PT
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Youth.
Not important.
Athleticism.
Not important.
Health.
McCain's health is fine, he's just old.
Intellect.
Examples of this?
He's more articulate.
As long as he is articulating from a teleprompter. And, as I have said before...I am tired of smooth talkers. They are liars and I don't trust them.
He knows law better.
Examples?
Other world leaders already like him more than McCain.
Totally unimportant. The reason they like Obama is becvause they know he'll be a pushover and they will be able to get their way with the U.S.
He had the vision to see the folly in invading Iraq, McCain didn't.
Documentation? Obama wasn't on the scene when we invaded Iraq.
He hasn't supported Bush 90% of the time in the last 8 years, McCain did.
General statement. Means nothing.
McCain flip flops more (torture, state of the economy, off shore drilling, bush tax cuts etc, etc).
Open for debate on that one.
Obama's wife is smarter, and more articulate than McCain's. A better First Lady.
Totally unimportant.
Obama's stated tax policies are better for average Americans than McCain's.
Tax and spend...I would expect you to like those policies better.
There's a chance for universal health care progress with Obama, none with McCain.
ONE reason why I would vote for McCain. Socialism has no business in our country. People could get health care COVERAGE if they wanted to. They would just need to prioritize.
McCain wants to drill, drill, drill - an oil company shill.
And how do YOU propose energy independence? You can squawk about alternative energy all you want but you know good and well that it isn't viable in our lifetime. Our country is driven by oil and you might as well get used to it
Obama might further alternative energy.
Might?
Obama has a more diplomatic temperament, McCain is hot tempered and belligerent.
Just what we want as our leader. Some wuss saying to the rest of the world, "Can't we all just get along?"
Obama didn't pick Sarah Palin as his running mate.
But he DID pick a 35 year in the Senate career politician to further his "change" agenda. LOL! Someone who, on multiple attempts, could not even get his own party's nomination for Prez.
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Sep 29, 2008 - 01:32am PT
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I agree with you Werner. I am voting for Obama because he is the better of the two choices, not because he is some savior. The whole savior business is just more right wing crap. See Kevin's post for reasons to vote for Obama.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
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Sep 29, 2008 - 01:34am PT
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Main Entry:
1stu·pid
Pronunciation:
\ˈstü-pəd, ˈstyü-\
Function:
adjective
Etymology:
Middle French stupide, from Latin stupidus, from stupēre to be numb, be astonished — more at type
Date:
1541
1 a: slow of mind : obtuse b: given to unintelligent decisions or acts : acting in an unintelligent or careless manner c: lacking intelligence or reason : brutish2: dulled in feeling or sensation : torpid 3: marked by or resulting from unreasoned thinking or acting : senseless 4 a: lacking interest or point b: vexatious , exasperating
— stu·pid·ly adverb
— stu·pid·ness noun
synonyms stupid , dull , dense , crass , dumb mean lacking in power to absorb ideas or impressions. stupid implies a slow-witted or dazed state of mind that may be either congenital or temporary . dull suggests a slow or sluggish mind such as results from disease, depression, or shock . dense implies a thickheaded imperviousness to ideas . crass suggests a grossness of mind precluding discrimination or delicacy . dumb applies to an exasperating obtuseness or lack of comprehension .
COURIC: You've cited Alaska's proximity to Russia as part of your foreign policy experience. What did you mean by that?
PALIN: That Alaska has a very narrow maritime border between a foreign country, Russia, and on our other side, the land-- boundary that we have with-- Canada. It-- it's funny that a comment like that was-- kind of made to-- cari-- I don't know, you know? Reporters--
COURIC: Mock?
PALIN: Yeah, mocked, I guess that's the word, yeah.
COURIC: Explain to me why that enhances your foreign policy credentials.
PALIN: Well, it certainly does because our-- our next door neighbors are foreign countries. They're in the state that I am the executive of. And there in Russia--
COURIC: Have you ever been involved with any negotiations, for example, with the Russians?
PALIN: We have trade missions back and forth. We-- we do-- it's very important when you consider even national security issues with Russia as Putin rears his head and comes into the air space of the United States of America, where-- where do they go? It's Alaska. It's just right over the border. It is-- from Alaska that we send those out to make sure that an eye is being kept on this very powerful nation, Russia, because they are right there. They are right next to-- to our state.
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Flashlight
climber
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Sep 29, 2008 - 01:35am PT
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Lois, NO! I am not voting for Obama. How could you possibly think that?
I really don't know who I am voting for at this point. I wish i could write myself in, I would straighten this country out once and for all.
~Flashlight, shining the light of truth on the darkness that is ST.
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Sep 29, 2008 - 01:36am PT
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Flashlight, You must be trolling. It would be very difficult to be that stupid.
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Flashlight
climber
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Sep 29, 2008 - 01:37am PT
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Lois, I know exactly what you are saying. However, I am ABSOLUTELY SICK AND FREAKIN' TIRED OF HAVING TO VOTE FOR THE LESSER OF TWO EVILS!!!!!!!
I decided after the last election that I will no longer do that. I am going to vote FOR someone, not AGAINST someone, or I won't vote at all.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Sep 29, 2008 - 01:38am PT
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If you are picked to be the VP candidate and head out on the campaign trail with the obvious lack of preparedness that Palin has shown then you are in fact stupid.
Hint 1: If you are going to try to sell a message like "McCain is a maverick" then have some substance to back that up before you start repeating it over and over again.
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Flashlight
climber
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Sep 29, 2008 - 01:40am PT
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Lois, you ARE delusional if you somehow gathered that I was voting for Obama. My feelings are hurt that you would even THINK that.
I don't know what you have been reading but it hasn't been my posts.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Sep 29, 2008 - 01:40am PT
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Jody she said by NOT voting for McCain you are essentially voting for Obama.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
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Sep 29, 2008 - 01:44am PT
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"He's more articulate.
As long as he is articulating from a teleprompter."
Watch the debate. Obama is articulate without a teleprompter.
"And, as I have said before...I am tired of smooth talkers. They are liars and I don't trust them."
Because he's articulate you think he's a liar? Wasn't Jesus an articulate speaker? Along with many other smart articulate non-liars?
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Sep 29, 2008 - 01:44am PT
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LEB- Why is Palin ready and right for the Presidency?
Also: speaking simply doesn't not necessarily mean the same thing as being articulate. McCain did the classic "oversimplify shuffle" at the debate while Obama tried to describe a more complex view. It is true that McCain was more clear than Obama, but when your viewpoint can be boiled down to one statement then of course it's easier to be clear.
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Flashlight
climber
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Sep 29, 2008 - 01:45am PT
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It is NOT a vote FOR Obama Lois.
It is a vote FOR someone else. I don't care how you try to spin it.
In reality, it doesn't matter what I do with my vote in the Communist state I live in.
Warbler, not my argument, I'm not for either one of them.
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Flashlight
climber
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Sep 29, 2008 - 01:46am PT
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Granite, I should have said "smooth-talking politicians".
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
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Sep 29, 2008 - 01:46am PT
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"BUT the reality is that it is McCain vs Obama."
LEB, we are voting for teams. The choice is between McCain/Palin vs Obama/Biden.
You should expect the VP to have an active role in shaping the administration with a 10% chance of suddenly and without warning becoming President.
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WBraun
climber
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Sep 29, 2008 - 01:47am PT
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Hahaha
Hey Kevin (Warbler)
You should ah been here tonight at the facelift party.
400 people and I saw the fattrad.
So I say Jeff, over here man, while standing in the dark, and he ran away ... hahahahaha.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Sep 29, 2008 - 01:50am PT
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Jody said: "In reality, it doesn't matter what I do with my vote in the Communist state I live in. "
Oh man that is really funny. Why? Because a few years ago I mentioned that it would be a lot more fair if we did away with the Electoral College for this exact reason. You responded snottily: "Um hell? There's a little something called the Constitution? Duh!"
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
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Sep 29, 2008 - 01:51am PT
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Lois, you often make a point of of saying that you do not try to persuade other people, but other people try to persuade you. Are you now trying to persuade Flashlight to vote for McCain?
Is it possible that you care who wins this race much more than Flashlight?
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
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Sep 29, 2008 - 01:56am PT
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"OK, one more try. Jody, if all the GOPs who normally vote GOP, stayed home because of sentiments like what you express, tell me what would be the net effect of that action? Who would win? So by staying home, which candidate do the GOPs help?"
They understand that, Lois. They understand that it might lead to Obama winning the next election, but they also understand that it will motivate the GOP to nominate different candidates in future elections.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Sep 29, 2008 - 02:03am PT
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The allegedly intelligent woman that LEB wishes was at the top of the GOP ticket:
COURIC: Why isn't it better, Governor Palin, to spend $700 billion helping middle-class families who are struggling with health care, housing, gas and groceries; allow them to spend more and put more money into the economy instead of helping these big financial institutions that played a role in creating this mess?
PALIN: That's why I say I, like every American I'm speaking with, were ill about this position that we have been put in where it is the taxpayers looking to bail out. But ultimately, what the bailout does is help those who are concerned about the health-care reform that is needed to help shore up our economy, helping the—it's got to be all about job creation, too, shoring up our economy and putting it back on the right track. So health-care reform and reducing taxes and reining in spending has got to accompany tax reductions and tax relief for Americans. And trade, we've got to see trade as opportunity, not as a competitive, scary thing. But one in five jobs being created in the trade sector today, we've got to look at that as more opportunity. All those things under the umbrella of job creation. This bailout is a part of that.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
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Sep 29, 2008 - 02:08am PT
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I can understand when someone chokes and flubs one answer. But Palin flubbed every question in the interview.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
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Sep 29, 2008 - 02:21am PT
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I found this list on a blog.
Partial List of Republican Women More Qualified to be President Than Sarah Palin
Senators: Lisa Murkowski, Alaska(?!?); Olympia Snowe, Maine; Susan Collins, Maine; Elizabeth Dole North Carolina; Kay Bailey Hutchison, Texas
Governors: Oline Walker, Utah; Linda Lingle, Hawaii, M. Jodi Rell, Connecticut
Members of the House: Ileana Ros-Lehtinen Florida; Deborah Pryce, Ohio; Barbara Cubin, Wyoming; Sue Myrick North Carolina; Jo Ann Emerson, Missouri; Kay Granger, Texas; Mary Bono, California; Heather Wilson , New Mexico; Judith Borg Biggert , Illinois; Shelley Moore Capito, West Virginia; Marsha Blackburn, Tennessee; Ginny Brown-Waite, Florida; Candice Miller, Michigan; Marilyn Musgrave, Colorado; Thelma Drake, Virginia; Virginia Foxx, North Carolina; Cathy McMorris Rodgers, West Virginia; Jean Schmidt, Ohio
Cabinet: Condoleezza Rice, Secretary of State; Elaine Chao, Secretary of Labor; Margaret Spellings, Secretary of Education; Mary Peters, Secretary of Transportation; Susan Schwab, US Special Trade Representative
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
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Sep 29, 2008 - 02:22am PT
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But in choosing Palin, McCain passed over a bevy of qualified Republican women, all of whom have built strong conservative records while maintaining some semblance of commitment to progress for women, and all of whom are the same kind of “moderates“ and “mavericks“ that John McCain billed himself to be. Here’s a rundown of five of the most notable and successful, and their qualifications for the job.
1. Senator Kay Bailey Hutchinson of Texas - Hutchinson began her public career as a the Texas State Treasurer back in the early 1990s. Elected to fill the vacancy created when former Senator Lloyd Bentson became Bill Clinton‘s treasury secretary, she‘s been reelected to the Senate three times, most recently in 2006. Ladies Home Journal called her one of the 30 most powerful women in the world. She’s served on the powerful Senate Appropriations Committee, the Committee on Veterans’ Affairs, and is currently the ranking member of the Committee on Commerce, Science, and Transportation. But even though she’s from reliably-Republican Texas, Hutchinson is a moderate, having backed a woman’s right to reproductive choice consistently.
2. Senator Olympia Snowe of Maine - A veteran of Washington politics, Maine Senator Olympia Snowe is one of the most popular in the entire country, boasting an approval rating that regularly tops the 80% mark. Time Magazine named her one of the “Top Ten Senators” in 2006, noting that her presence at the negotiating table was vital to the success of nearly every bill that passes through the house. She’s served two and a half terms in the Senate, though before that she served 8 terms in the House. When Republicans had control of the Senate, she was the Chairwoman of the Senate Small Business Committee (now she’s the ranking member). She also sits on the Senate Finance Committee, the Select Committee on Intelligence, and the Committee on Commerce, Science and Transportation, and was one of the first women to earn a seat on the Senate Armed Services Committee. Snowe has established one of the most consistently pro-woman records in Washington, rivaling that of many Democrats. She’s a member of the “Republicans for Choice” group that advocates reproductive freedom, and backed the equal pay legislation that came through the Senate, despite her colleagues’ fillibuster of the motion to prevent it from ever coming to a floor vote.
3. Senator Lisa Murkowski of Alaska - If McCain had really wanted to go to Alaska, he could have picked Senator Lisa Murkowski, the daughter of former Senator and Governor Frank Murkowski, who served the same state for many years. Though Lisa has served just one full term, she was named the vice chair of the Indian Affairs Committee, and also served on the influential Foreign Relations Committee, and the Committee on Health, Education, Labor, and Pensions. Murkowski has a “mixed” rating when it comes to abortion issues, but has frequently supported equal pay and equal rights legislation that has passed through the Senate.
4. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice - Condoleezza Rice, for better or for worse, is an innovator. She was the first woman, the first African American, and the youngest ever to serve as the Provost of Stanford University. When George W. Bush tapped her to be the National Security Advisor, she made history again, becoming the first woman to hold that post. When he again called on her to fill the vacancy as Secretary of State caused by Colin Powell’s departure, she became the first African American woman to hold that post as well. If McCain had really been serious about loading his ticket with foreign policy credentials, or even national security credentials, Rice would have been the only logical choice.
5. Senator Susan Collins of Maine - Having served two full terms in the Senate, Susan Collins has proven herself to be a moderate Republican vote. Though she’s been fiscally conservative her entire career, she’s mirrored her colleague Olympia Snowe all along. She’s also a member of the Republicans for Choice group, and backed a floor vote on the Ledbetter Fair Pay Act (named for a woman who served 19 years at a tire plant and still made $6,000 per year less than the lowest-paid male employee). She’s incredibly accomplished, having chaired the Senate Committee on Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs, of which she is now the ranking member. She also sits on the Senate Armed Services Committee.
Now, compare these women to Sarah Palin, and ask yourself: was the selection of Palin a political move or a substantive one?
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raymond phule
climber
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Sep 29, 2008 - 02:29am PT
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"The GOP cannot chose "better" candidates because they are too hung up on certain issues. They have a litmus test and it is called the right to life. If a candidate - however qualified e.g. Guilliani - does not support the right to life - huge numbers of GOP voters will not support said person. It is very difficult, then, to get a "qualified" candidate. It is like saying, I absolutely won't get married unless I find a woman who is 5'4 and 3/4 inches, has hazel-green eyes with bluish overtones, has blondish hair which as a 10.5 % wave to it, wears precisely a 36C cup, has a tortoise shell cat which is 1/4 Siamese and practices constitutional law. She must also share my interest in baseball. What is the likelihood that this man remains a bachelor?"
and someone find it strange that not all GOP candidates is well liked in the US and the rest of the world?
This might be one of the largest reason that many people outside the US dislike the result of the American election and think many Americans are stupid. The real important issues and qualification of the candidates don't seem to matter for a lot of voters. It seems like EVERY prolife, christian person with "values" have million of default votes.
Palin seems to be an extremely bad candidate but this doesn't seem to matter at all.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 29, 2008 - 02:56am PT
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It is odd that you would characterize McCain's selection of Palin as a gamble....with which I agree.
However, what does that say about McCain's termperment and decision making process?
Do we want a person making huge critical decisions, throwing the dice all the time? That may be neccessary occasionally, but if used regularly, the odds catch up to you.
What was the "suspending the campaign", but another throw of the dice?
WE pay the consequences.
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raymond phule
climber
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Sep 29, 2008 - 03:02am PT
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So here we have the "we don't need to be liked talk".
I simply said one reason why a lot of people think a lot of Americans vote for stupid reasons.
Do you really believe that a issue like prolife should be the most important issue for a future president? Don't you for example care about the economy?
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Jaybro
Social climber
wuz real!
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Sep 29, 2008 - 03:08am PT
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"The GOP cannot chose "better" candidates because they are too hung up on certain issues."
And there is a sensible reason that an articulate, intelligent person such as yourself, feels they must support this decadent, atavistic, club?
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raymond phule
climber
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Sep 29, 2008 - 03:09am PT
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So MacCain choose a prolife VP candidate. The conservative in the GOP get happy. The candidate don't seem to have a clue... but this is not supposed to make any differense because the VP is not supposed to do anything. Is this a correct understanding?
So why are the GOP happy if Palin is not supposed to do anything? Are they really that easy to fool?
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raymond phule
climber
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Sep 29, 2008 - 03:12am PT
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"I am not supporting the litmus test as a means to select candidates for the GOP. I thought it was obvious enough that I was critical of said process."
And then shouldn't you have any problems to understand the view of many people here on supertopo, the US and the rest of the world.
Support stupid things and people might consider you stupid.
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Sparky
Trad climber
vagabon movin on
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Sep 29, 2008 - 03:17am PT
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raymond phule
climber
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Sep 29, 2008 - 03:22am PT
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So palin was choosen becasue the GOP base are so easy to fool.
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raymond phule
climber
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Sep 29, 2008 - 03:29am PT
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Only a fool can be appeased or placated by a VP candidate if the VP candidate make no real difference in the politics.
I really doubt McCain is going to consult palin on any issues if he get elected. Why should he? He only needs to start to lie to the GOP base right before the next election.
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rockermike
Mountain climber
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Sep 29, 2008 - 03:39am PT
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I didn't have time to read all posts above, but I think its silly to say there are no more competent but conservative pro-life women who could have been picked. Sarah is clearly in the lower 50% category. Sad. But her one redeeming feature is that even the old man could get it up in her presence. The others all failed that litmus test. ha
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Sep 29, 2008 - 05:45am PT
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Palin was McCain's 3rd choice and considering the level of vetting they obviously didn't do, it was a kneejerk decision, not a "very calculated" one, likely made out of frustration that the Republican establishment wouldn't let McCain do as he wished with his first two choices, which were both pro-choice moderates (one was VP candidate in 2000....with Gore at the head of the ticket).
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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Sep 29, 2008 - 09:54am PT
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Well, here's a cynical take on the whole thing, that unfortunately might be correct.
THe rethuglicans KNOW they've screwed the whole enchilada up so badly, that a major disaster is coming in the next 4 years-- it almost happened yesterday in fact, with the failures of all these finacial institutions and bailouts in the works.
SO, the rethugs are out to lose. On purpose. bacause whoever is in power when the shyte caused by the rethugs will not get back on power for about 50 years, cause the American people will blame whatever admin is in office when the problem comes home to roost hits big.
This would explain McCain's bizarre actions and flip flops, and his choice of Palin, a TERRIBLE choice if they were to win, but one that in the future will look good for the rethuglicans, cause they can say in a few years, hey, we had a woman VP candidate, we are not prejudiced against women.
SO, it's possible that the rethugs have calculated that losing this election and letting the dems try and fail to put out their rethuglican generated fires will do the rethugs more good in the long run than winning right now.
Cause ANYONE who can listen to Plain has to be scared to death to have her as the VP, and the y have to question the judgment of the person who would choose her as VP.
Never mind that McCain wants 300 billion for the rich in tax cuts, and Obama wants to give everyone making under 250K a break, or anything substantive like that.
The main issue is now, HOW can you vote for someone who chooses a totally unqualified running mate?
I have a gut feeling the Palin choice was calculated to Lose the election.
And we know from Mimi and the LEB that gut hunches are always right.
OF course, if Obama can actually save the country, (doubtful, I'm feeling really bad about this-- the whole world economy is about to crash and burn thanks to rethug policies of the last 30 years) then the ploy backfires, and we will have moderate democratic liberal government for about 50 years.
HTs depends on Obama's plans to revitalize hte middle class, which means JOBS that PAY WELL, Education and training , and a return to dominance in industry and innovation by american companies, who instead of going to washington with money under the table trying to get out of working hard and creating something good, will actually have to work.
It is SHAMEFUL that the american auot companies, who whined about higher fleet gas milage requirements being too hard on them, and got what they wanted from reagan til present, are now saying htey need government help or they are toast.
Hell, they are toast cause they let the Japanese forge ahead with hybrids and hydrogen and better economy on conventional engines. IF you know history, once the japanese took about 10 % of the american auto market. Detroit's response was all out war-- in competition!!! they made better cars. Hell, GM once had the biggesr research division of any car company in the world. the jap invasion was thwarted for a while. But then, US auto companies figured out that is was easier to go to washington, hand out a few million here and there, and not have to compete. Or so they thought, LOL.
Look at em now.
Before long you will be driving a Toyota plug in hybrid or a hydrogen fueled Honda. THESE CARS SHOULD HAVE BEEN CREATED BY US MANUFACTURERS, but US car companies acted like idiots, and screwed themselves.
THe rethuglicans and their pals have reaped what they have sown, and that would be just dandy IF it wasn't going to drag us all down with em.
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dirtbag
climber
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Sep 29, 2008 - 10:04am PT
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I totally agree with you about American autos, Other Dirt. I have little sympathy for the plight of American automakers (not autoworkers) when they have fought every innovation and mandate kicking and screaming.
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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Sep 29, 2008 - 10:14am PT
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Dirt to dirt:
I felt so strongly about this issue that I started another thread, and expanded on the idea, and I'm actually going to send the other thread to Obama.
And I'm sending him MONEY, (not much, I can't afford it) which is something we should all do if we REALLY support change and a better life for all Americans.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Sep 29, 2008 - 10:25am PT
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"Only a fool can be appeased or placated by a VP candidate if the VP candidate make no real difference in the politics.
I really doubt McCain is going to consult palin on any issues if he get elected. Why should he? He only needs to start to lie to the GOP base right before the next election."
McCain won' t be consulting Palin cause he'll be dead and she'll be president. The guys has had the worst skin cancer and an insurance company would figure he has 2 to 4 statistical years to live. Palin is far, far more likely to be president than Biden during the next 4 years.
Palin would have been a genius choice (I'm sure Karl Rove concocted it) because she might bring along a lot of women, she inspires the Christian fundamentalist crowd, and youngs/pretty's up McCains geriatric ticket energy. Sadly, she's turning into a shipwreck.
If you look how McCain has campaigned, it's obvious how he would rule. Lies and distortions that that they knew to be untrue, and smoke, image and mirrors. We don't need more years of the Bush tactics of low denomination lies, power, and manipulation that bring the sheep along at the expense of the truth and the future.
Peace
Karl
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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Sep 29, 2008 - 10:40am PT
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"Only a fool can be appeased or placated by a VP candidate if the VP candidate make no real difference in the politics. "
Who said that?
Ever hear of a guy called, DICK CHENEY?????
Your IF is critical. What follows your IF is an unknown, so your whole statement is just dumb.
And BTW Palin is very much like Cheney. Several articles have pointed this out, using examples of her method of governing and how she deals with people who disagree with her.
A better statement would be: "Only a fool votes for a candidate who brashly and inpetuously chooses a truly unqualified running mate.".
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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Sep 29, 2008 - 11:01am PT
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Palin may well be intelligent, I don't really know.
But I DO know that her use of that intelligence is highly questionable.
Troopergate, Libraiangate, and a few other FACTUAL WELL KNOWN events in her political life, that CLEARLY show her willingness to abuse power, should make her a scary choice for ANYONE.
We don't need another Dick CHeney, PERIOD.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Sep 29, 2008 - 11:36am PT
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Again Lois, choosing a running mate who would be a disaster for the country shows a lack of judgement at best and a betrayal of the country at worst.
Literally, McCain betrays the country worse than any terrorist by lining up an incompetent, dangerous person to be leader of the nation. Think about it. There are some things that are immoral to do in order to be elected.
Now, I think it's more likely that he had Palin forced on him by poll taking Karl Rove types. The fact they never got to know her first is an indictment of how they would rule.
It's more than a popularity contest, even if the loist common denominator is pandered to. The fate of the world rests on how this country is led in the near future.
PEace
Karl
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the kid
Trad climber
fayetteville, wv
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Sep 29, 2008 - 11:45am PT
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i'm waiting for fattrads defense of Palin.
When vying for the second highest office in the land,
intelligence and experience are #1 requirements. Now i don't think Palin is stupid, i just think she is naive and has no depth of knowledge of the issues that effect this country right now..
If you can't understand the issues you can't lead..
sound bites strung together in an incoherent fashion does not cut it...
KS
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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Sep 29, 2008 - 11:47am PT
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HAHAHA, well, all those people, including LOTS of republicans, who are having major issues and second thoughts about Palin DO matter, you stupid old cow.
(how's that for character assassination? am I doing OK there? you sure do deserve it, as you are the stupidest, most blind person on the whole internet about this McCain Palin thing)
YOU, the LEB, STILL don't care about what Palin has done that is reprehensible. Hell, did I say you don't care? I should have said you were IGNORANT, cause you probably haven't even bothered to find anything out about Palin other than what the McCain campaign tells you.
And it is still amusing to me that you care MORE about people calling you names ( which you have totally earned btw) than about yoru own inability to check the facts, or the excesses of Palin.
FOr ONE example, do you REALLY want this person who fired a librarian for not banning books that Palin wanted banned? DO you think THAT is a good way to run a government?
DO you know that there was such an outcry over librariangate that the woman was reinstated?
THAT is ONE SMALL EXAMPLE. There are many. BUt YOU don;t care, because you have a 'gut feeling'.
I hope you choke on it.
IT's IDIOTS like you who have been manipulated into voting twice for the WORST president in history, who had nearly ruined the whole country, and yet you want MORE of the same.
And you are upset cause we call you names for that, after exhaustsing all possible methods of reason ad logic and pointing out the facts, which you continue to blithely ignore.
A smug, ignorant, manipulated cow, willingly being led to slaughter-- that is the best description of anyone voting for McCain.
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Sep 29, 2008 - 11:51am PT
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"If McCain wins, you all will get Palin whether you like her or not. Her presence on the ticket is a move calculated to increase McCain's chance of winning versus Obama. If it suceeds, she comes along as a package deal."
Yeah. We know. That's what we're scared off. McCain's the oldest man to run for President; he's refused to make his medical records available to the press and he nominates someone who, all apologies to Lois, while maybe not the definition of "stupid", certainly qualifies as "not very intelligent."
If Palin becomes President, she'll make Bush look like Albert Einstein, and look at the train wreck he was/is.
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dirtbag
climber
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Sep 29, 2008 - 12:12pm PT
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He should've picked Hucakbee.
I'm no Huckabee fan, but he would (1) get the base interested and (2) at least be reasonably articulate and not nearly as frightening. Jack Cafferty is right. Everyone should be scared by her nomination.
I predicted when he picked her this would hurt him politically. I believe this is true now more than ever.
This was a major "f*#k you" from John McCain to the American people.
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dirtbag
climber
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Sep 29, 2008 - 12:13pm PT
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"If Palin becomes President, she'll make Bush look like Albert Einstein, and look at the train wreck he was/is. "
I agree. We'd be pining for the days when W was President. How awful is that?
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Jaybro
Social climber
wuz real!
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Sep 29, 2008 - 12:26pm PT
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Why Did McCain throw the election?
Dirt-1's answer makes as much sense as any.
That gestalt was my first impression when she was named...
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dirtbag
climber
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Sep 29, 2008 - 12:36pm PT
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Whatever Lois.
Like I said, I don't really care what you think about this. Learn something and then we'll talk.
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Flashlight
climber
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Sep 29, 2008 - 12:52pm PT
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Lois, graniteclimber answered your question for me. He is absolutely correct. I don't care if my actions help Obama win. Until the GOP pulls their head out of their arse and starts to nominate more conservative candidates, they'll just have to deal with the consequences.
By the way, I am KNOTT GOP. Haven't been since 1990.
HDDJ, when did I ever complain about the Electoral College? I want to keep it, even though it screws me here in the People's Republik of Kalifornia.
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UncleDoug
Social climber
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Sep 29, 2008 - 01:31pm PT
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Uh, hu hu.
She said a%#essment.
LEB - you are just getting a heaping spoon full back at ya.
Quite a few people perceive you as just posting to this site to make your self seem superior to others, in your own eyes.
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Redlands
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Sep 29, 2008 - 01:43pm PT
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Sep 29, 2008 - 01:45pm PT
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"As I said on another thread, I have solid information that Bush actually creates hurricanes and causes tsunami's to happen."
That's just stupid. Despite what you've claimed about your 4.0 average, whatever brainpower you employed at school doesn't translate to everyday life, let alone politics.
It's frustrating to attempt to engage in dialogue with the right since, when you present them with FACTS demonstrating the problems with their party, they either change the topic or respond with a bunch of blather. That's not dialogue. It's just stupid.
If you have nothing substantive to say about the issues, why not do one of two things: 1) either admit the other side has a point; or 2) keep your pointless thoughts to yourself.
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Flashlight
climber
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Sep 29, 2008 - 01:59pm PT
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Lois, McCain was rated the 47th most conservative Senator in 2006 by the ACU. His average since 1998 is only 74. Not conservative by any means. The only Republicans more liberal are Specter, Snowe, and Collins.
Specifically, a few examples. He voted for a rule change that would increase the votes required to cut taxes to 60. He supported giving illegals social security credits for years worked before legally obtaining a number. He also voted for what basically amounted to an amnesty program for illegals. He voted against a same-sex marriage ban. Voted against a border fence. Etc..etc...
http://www.americanthinker.com/2008/01/mccains_acu_ratings.html
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fowweezer
Trad climber
Pleasant Grove, UT
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Sep 29, 2008 - 02:17pm PT
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Jody here just recited some of the many reasons that I, as an "old-school" conservative, liked McCain. Until recently.
Your interpretation of conservatism, Jody, is a bastardization of what I always knew it to be, and it makes me angry.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Sep 29, 2008 - 02:19pm PT
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Stockdale was a pretty scary choice by Perot but Palin is a real competitor.
Peace
Karl
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Flashlight
climber
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Sep 29, 2008 - 02:23pm PT
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fowweezer, don't be angry, find your happy place. :)
Karl, "Who am I, and why am I here?"
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Flashlight
climber
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Sep 29, 2008 - 02:28pm PT
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I bet Palin knows how many states there are, unlike Obama.
When Obama mentioned "57 states", he was probably referring to the 57 member states of the Organization of the Islamic Conference.
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Flashlight
climber
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Sep 29, 2008 - 02:30pm PT
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What about Obama answering McCain's wearing of a bracelet by mentioning his? He stuttered around and couldn't even remember who had given him the bracelet and what it stood for.
(He finally remembered after much stammering)
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dirtbag
climber
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Sep 29, 2008 - 02:33pm PT
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Every candidate is going to stutter, stammer, gaffe, and spew nonsense now and then.
Palin did it the entire enterview.
I challenged you earlier to find one coherent answer--just one--in that interview that shows she has some vague clue what she is talking about. I still haven't seen one.
Karl--I'd take Stockdale over her. At least as an admiral, I'm sure he knew a lot about defense and security.
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the Fet
Knackered climber
A bivy sack in the secret campground
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Sep 29, 2008 - 02:34pm PT
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stu·pid
1. lacking ordinary quickness and keenness of mind; dull.
2. tediously dull, esp. due to lack of meaning or sense; inane; pointless
3. annoying or irritating; troublesome
Stupidity is not low intelligence. Sarah and Lois both demonstrate you can be intelligent yet still demonstrate all of the defintions above at times.
Jody and Lois both demonstrate you can have absolute, unflinching beliefs and try to convince others of them, but be completely wrong and unable to see it.
Sorry, I don't want to put you guys down, you seem like good people, just misguided.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Sep 29, 2008 - 02:35pm PT
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Flashlight
"Karl, "Who am I, and why am I here?"
You are the Soul shining in the image of the divine and you are here to learn through experience but are shackled by hanging on to false beliefs about your identity.
Either that or you are are the Jodster who returned from repeated self-imposed exile, Either because
1. You're addicted and can't kick the habit.
2. You got drummed off some other forum and something lured you back here.
0r
3. You've come to be a beacon of truth and reason to the benighted liberals of ST (or to torment us somehow)
?
Peace
Karl
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stevep
Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
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Sep 29, 2008 - 02:36pm PT
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While suturing a cut on the hand of a 75-year old Texas rancher whose hand
was caught in a gate while working cattle, a doctor struck up a conversation
with the old man. Eventually the topic got around to Sarah Palin and her bid
to be a heartbeat away from being President.
The old rancher said, "Well, ya know, Palin is a post turtle."
Not being familiar with the term, the doctor asked him what a post turtle
was.
The old rancher said, "When you're driving down a country road and you come
across a fence post with a turtle balanced on top, that's a post turtle."
The old rancher saw a puzzled look on the doctor's face, so he explained.
"You know she didn't get up there by herself, she doesn't belong up there,
she doesn't know what to do while she is up there, and you just wonder what
kind of dumb ass put her up there to begin with."
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Hardman Knott
Gym climber
Muir Woods National Monument, Mill Valley, Ca
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Sep 29, 2008 - 02:42pm PT
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ROTFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111
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Flashlight
climber
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Sep 29, 2008 - 02:43pm PT
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"You've come to be a beacon of truth and reason to the benighted liberals of ST (or to torment us somehow)"
Bingo!
Karl, you missed what I was trying to say. Remember Stockdale's opening statements in the VP debate? "Who am I and why am I here?"...all of us were wondering the same thing.
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dirtbag
climber
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Sep 29, 2008 - 02:49pm PT
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Warbler,
If Palin was trying to lower expectations intentionally--which I doubt-- she way overdid it. People already had low expectations of her anyway.
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Flashlight
climber
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Sep 29, 2008 - 02:53pm PT
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Dirtbag, that may be true, but she is HOT and that cancels out any negatives.
Lois, you give me far too much credit, but thanks anyway. :) These guys are too easy here.
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scuffy b
climber
Elmertown
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Sep 29, 2008 - 02:56pm PT
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Flashlight wrote:
I bet Palin knows how many states there are, unlike Obama.
When Obama mentioned "57 states", he was probably referring to the 57 member states of the Organization of the Islamic Conference.
Do you believe this?
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dirtbag
climber
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Sep 29, 2008 - 03:00pm PT
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"but she is HOT..."
I'll give you that one.
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webee
Trad climber
colorado
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Sep 29, 2008 - 03:07pm PT
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You think shes HOT. Seriuosly? Youve got to be joking.YOU must be way hard up.
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dirtbag
climber
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Sep 29, 2008 - 03:10pm PT
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"Hot" might be an overstatement.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Sep 29, 2008 - 03:23pm PT
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"What about Obama answering McCain's wearing of a bracelet by mentioning his? He stuttered around and couldn't even remember who had given him the bracelet and what it stood for. "
Hahaha...that's certainly your very biased view of it. I think the real reason is that he hasn't been bending over backwards to mention his bracelet at every campaign stop for the last 6 months.
"If she were running with Obama, you guys would be tripping over yourselves, foaming at the mouth to "do" her. If Palin were a liberal and the Dem VP, you would think she was plenty "hot." "
We are already calling her "hot." We are calling her stupid and unqualified, and you better believe that if Obama had chosen someone like her we'd be up in arms.
The reality though is that it was never an option, because dems would never stomach someone so vapid. Conservatives score points on "liberal elites" because we value things like intelligence, knowledge and articulation. We don't WANT someone who is "just like us." We want someone who is smarter, more articulate and more informed than we are. For these reasons even having a hypothetical about Palin being a liberal is laughable.
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Flashlight
climber
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Sep 29, 2008 - 03:23pm PT
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scuffy, absolutely! If he becomes President he will do everything in his power to turn the U.S. into the 58th. That is his agenda.
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the Fet
Knackered climber
A bivy sack in the secret campground
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Sep 29, 2008 - 03:36pm PT
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I'd do the Bush twins, but Palin (like Hilary) is a boner shrinker.
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dirtbag
climber
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Sep 29, 2008 - 03:42pm PT
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"I'd do the Bush twins"
Together or separately?
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Sep 29, 2008 - 04:01pm PT
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LEB jesus. Why do I even bother having opinions or principles by which I live when you just give them to me. Every time you post it's just more evidence that you don't even think about what you're saying. It's not that surprising you think Palin should be top dog.
Did you actually learn information in nursing school or did you just sit at home and decide how it all worked with your gut and have insisted that's the way it is every since?
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Sep 29, 2008 - 04:03pm PT
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"scuffy, absolutely! If he becomes President he will do everything in his power to turn the U.S. into the 58th. That is his agenda."
Since we've already defined "stupid", I'd say that answer goes far beyond that. I think the word "ignorant" or "racist" might apply to that comment.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Sep 29, 2008 - 04:06pm PT
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Fat dad- Jody is trolling.
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the Fet
Knackered climber
A bivy sack in the secret campground
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Sep 29, 2008 - 04:10pm PT
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"Together or separately?"
Depends how drunk they are.
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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Sep 29, 2008 - 04:48pm PT
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WHy does anyone still lsiten to LEB crap?
PAlin = NOT attractive to me, certainly.
My GF is way younger, has a body of a 25 year old, and is not a total lunatic right wing nutjob.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Sep 29, 2008 - 05:04pm PT
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As usual LEB you miss the point by farther than one can measure.
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divad
Trad climber
wmass
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Sep 29, 2008 - 05:25pm PT
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Fer crissake Lois, we get it that you support McCains' choice of Palin because he felt (at the time) that she gave him a better chance of winning.
Why can't you get it that we think picking Palin without considering the consequences was fukin stoopid?
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divad
Trad climber
wmass
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Sep 29, 2008 - 06:11pm PT
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It's your track record here.
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Jaybro
Social climber
wuz real!
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Sep 29, 2008 - 06:12pm PT
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At this point, of what possible use is Palin? Except to democrats?
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
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Sep 29, 2008 - 06:40pm PT
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LEB: "If she were running with Obama, you guys would be tripping over yourselves, foaming at the mouth to "do" her. If Palin were a liberal and the Dem VP, you would think she was plenty "hot."
Lois, no one disputes that she is attractive. There are plenty of Democrats that think she's "hot." They just don't think she is qualified to be President if McCain dies.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
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Sep 29, 2008 - 06:48pm PT
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Lois, did you watch the Couric interview?
What the lefties say no longer matters. Why listen to them ranting about how incompetent she is when you can watch Palin to it to herself?
Are you aware that some of her answers were so "funny" that Saturday Night Live used them verbatim in their last skit of her?
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Jaybro
Social climber
wuz real!
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Sep 29, 2008 - 06:53pm PT
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Okay, Sis, don't answer, just a simple question...
Which one of us, exactly, is ranting?
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divad
Trad climber
wmass
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Sep 29, 2008 - 07:01pm PT
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"Palin running in 2012" OMG Lois, you can't be serious.
You are outnumbered here Lois, but I still give you credit for coming back time and time again and sticking to your guns (even though you are shooting blanks).
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WBraun
climber
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Sep 29, 2008 - 07:23pm PT
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No No No
The reality is that it is stupid.
We don't wait till Nov. We know and see stupid when it appears.
We don't need to politicize it, nor do we need to attach any external onto it.
Stupid is always "STUPID"
Therefor one is stupid if one can't see this simple fact.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
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Sep 29, 2008 - 07:31pm PT
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http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gWOdvVmTY8FsLydZhTx56KddZSWQD93GJDFG0
One of Palin's problems has been perceptions of her experience. In an Associated Press-Yahoo News poll conducted during the first half of September, 61 percent said they did not think Palin — governor for less than two years and former small-town mayor — has the right experience to be president. That view has changed little in more recent surveys.
Polls also show Palin's image, while positive overall, has begun to erode. While an NBC News-Wall Street Journal survey in early September showed more people viewing her favorably than unfavorably by 20 percentage points, that gap faded to 6 points by last week. Similarly, her net positive rating in a Fox News-Opinion Dynamics poll shrunk from 27 points in early September to 11 points a week ago.
"People have positive things to say about her as a human being," said Democratic pollster Peter Hart. "But when it comes to the professional element of the job, she just comes up short."
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dirtbag
climber
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Sep 29, 2008 - 07:36pm PT
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The Republicans caught a huge break this past week or so by having other major news items dominate the headlines. Thus, a lot of voters will miss the Couric interview. However, I believe this is every bit as important, if not more so, than other stories. We are in danger of electing someone who is completely unqualified to hold the highest office in the land. I'm hoping the debates will help show undecideds who she really is.
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atchafalaya
climber
Babylon
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Sep 29, 2008 - 07:47pm PT
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"Do you think for one millisecond that the conclusions you all come to among yourselves even remotely represent the nation as a whole?"
No. I think around half of the U.S. thinks like you Lois. And it scares the shyte out of me that people could be so clueless. Sh#t happens, but recognizing one's errors is the key to preventing them in the future. Saying that Palin was a good choice for the country raises serious questions about your analytical skills and reasoning. In other words, its really f*#king stupid.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Sep 29, 2008 - 07:55pm PT
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Yeah LEB seriously....this election has nothing to do with deciding who is smart and who is stupid. I don't know where you get this crap or why you keep reposting it. I mean how many times have you reposted that crap on this single thread alone.
And so then people challenge you substantively and you either A: don't respond or B: say "fine i get that you disagree with me" and then keep repeating the same untruths or inane crap that you were before like nobody said anything. It's like talking to a robot.
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dirtbag
climber
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Sep 29, 2008 - 07:57pm PT
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Guys, you're talking to a wall. I gave up a few days ago.
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WBraun
climber
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Sep 29, 2008 - 07:59pm PT
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Lois.
Climbers in general are mite bit smarter than the general sheep populations.
That's why your missing the whole point here. Your not a climber.
You don't run it out. When you run it out, you really have to look 360 degrees in all directions simultaneously and not down some romantic fantasy tunnel.
You'll never get ..... you don't climb.
Nor will you understand this post either. This post is very cryptic and takes many years of running it out.
Lifetimes worth of running it out.
Step up to the plate and take your strikes.
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divad
Trad climber
wmass
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Sep 29, 2008 - 08:05pm PT
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Dirt, other than climbing, it's the best sport we got here.
Oh wait, I can think of another.
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Redwreck
Social climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Sep 29, 2008 - 08:05pm PT
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This guy nails it:
"Not only is Sarah Palin a fraud, she's the tawdriest, most half-assed fraud imaginable, 20 floors below the lowest common denominator, a character too dumb even for daytime TV -and this country is going to eat her up, cheering her every step of the way. All because most Americans no longer have the energy to do anything but lie back and allow ourselves to be jacked off by the calculating thieves who run this grasping consumer paradise we call a nation."
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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Sep 29, 2008 - 08:06pm PT
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The obesrvation that Palin ain't VP material is being made by more and more people EVERY DAY, and the truth comes out-- of her own mouth.
EVEN far right wingers are dismayed.
And about GBW, for once, today, he looked worried, he looked earnest, and he acted presidential.
THAT'S scary as hell.
Hell, they ALL look scared.
If LEB has any sense at all, she'll pay off that farm and be totally out of debt so that when the depression hits, she'll be able to eat.
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divad
Trad climber
wmass
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Sep 29, 2008 - 08:12pm PT
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Jeez Lois, you could be a politican. Say one thing, do another.
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Jaybro
Social climber
wuz real!
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Sep 29, 2008 - 08:13pm PT
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Btw, the Pig, carries the tube, generally speaking. Not carried on the person. Not a Sarah P dig. Climbers know what I mean.
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Sep 29, 2008 - 08:30pm PT
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Werner, you are a God. LOL. That is some funny sh#t. hahaha..
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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Sep 29, 2008 - 08:44pm PT
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NO Lois, it is not agreed upon.
I intend to let you have it both barrels for every stupid thing you say-- so I'll need a LOT of shells.
There can be no standoff with someone who is dead wrong, and you are dead wrong, almost all the time.
What there is with you is endless frustration over your extremely thick skull, your smug attitude, and the totally moronic things you say about politics.
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Flashlight
climber
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Sep 29, 2008 - 08:59pm PT
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"Climbers in general are mite bit smarter than the general sheep populations."
On that you are dead wrong Werner. That is, if we can deduce from the postings on this site that they are indicative of the climbing population in general. Some of the posts here by the chicken little, whiney, complaining liberal left hacks(which pretty much encompasses 99+% of the posters here) pretty much blows your theory about the intelligence of climbers out of the water.
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Wonder
climber
WA
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Sep 29, 2008 - 09:52pm PT
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Sep 29, 2008 - 10:18pm PT
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"On that you are dead wrong Werner. That is, if we can deduce from the postings on this site .."
Jody I think its a stretch to say that you've ever "deduced" anything ever.
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Flashlight
climber
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Sep 29, 2008 - 10:18pm PT
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Warbler, what does being "dedicated to climbing" have to do with anything? I love climbing as much as the next person but it hardly rates at the top of my priority list.
I know plenty of climbers fairly well. What's your point?
You say my faith influences my politics. How is that? My faith doesn't have a handbook on political stances I must take. Which political stances that you have seen are specifically influenced by my faith?
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Sep 29, 2008 - 10:19pm PT
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Oh hey sweet. Someone got him defensive about his religion. This always ends well.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
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Sep 29, 2008 - 10:21pm PT
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"You all seem to think that ST = the USA. It does not. ST is decidedly LEFT. It is not remotely representative of the USA as a whole."
Lois, I agree with what you said about Supertopo. But Time, Newsweek, many major newspapers... hell, even the National Review and Fox News have run articles very critical of Palin. Together, those are much more represenative of the USA as a whole than ST. But you ignore all of those, and you seem oblivious to any posts that mention those.
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Flashlight
climber
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Sep 29, 2008 - 10:23pm PT
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HDDJ, just shut up, would you? You haven't correctly deduced one of my responses ever. Warbler mentions my religion, I ask some questions regarding his assertion, and you start squawking that I am being defensive. You have no clue what you are talking about, so go find your happy place and stop bothering us with your juvenile crap.
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Wonder
climber
WA
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Sep 29, 2008 - 10:28pm PT
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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Sep 29, 2008 - 10:37pm PT
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Author:
graniteclimber
Trad climber
From: Nowhere
"You all seem to think that ST = the USA. It does not. ST is decidedly LEFT. It is not remotely representative of the USA as a whole."
Lois, I agree with what you said about Supertopo. But Time, Newsweek, many major newspapers... hell, even the National Review and Fox News have run articles very critical of Palin. Together, those are much more represenative of the USA as a whole than ST. But you ignore all of those, and you seem oblivious to any posts that mention those.
**
Well, now she can ignore it AGAIN. But that won't bother her much, she has a lot of experience ignoring the obvious.
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Flashlight
climber
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Sep 29, 2008 - 10:39pm PT
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Curt, you can't say that any media outlet is representative of America.
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Jaybro
Social climber
wuz real!
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Sep 29, 2008 - 10:40pm PT
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Life is short, always climb with people of higher than average intelligence.
Interesting view that Supertopo is a, liberal, enclave; gives new nuance to the term. Have to think about that...
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Wonder
climber
WA
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Sep 29, 2008 - 10:41pm PT
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Sarah Palin's Religious Past Under Scrutiny
Airdate: 9/9/2008
"It was so cool growing up in this church and getting saved here," said Governor Sarah Palin, addressing the congregation at the Pentecostal Church where she worshipped for more than two decades. The address took place in June 2008, less than three months before she'd storm into the national spotlight as John McCain's running mate.
"I love you guys and thank you so much for dedicating your life to Jesus Christ."
Now Palin's speech and the teachings of her former pastor are under the microscope as voters consider the religious views of the Vice Presidential nominee.
Palin attended the Wasilla Assembly of God Church from her teenage years until 2002, when she and her family joined another church in Alaska.
The church says they believe Governor Palin to be a woman of integrity and a strong leader, however, as a church, they will not endorse any candidate.
One comment Palin made during her June visit is causing an uproar:
"Pray for our military men and women who are striving to do what is right also for this country. Pray that our national leaders are sending them out on a task that is from God. That's what we have to make sure we're praying for: that there is a plan and that plan is God's plan," Palin said.
"I think if there continue to be more revelations and talking about particular social issues as sort of 'God's plan' or, 'the way God wants it,' I think that makes most people uncomfortable," says Beth Frerking of Politico.
Palin's talk also caused a heated debate on ABC's The View.
"I don't think there's anything wrong, when you're standing in front of a church of people who pray, to ask people to pray for a cause," Elisabeth Hasselback said.
"It's one thing to believe in faith, it's another to say that things that occur – a war, a pipeline – are God's will," said mediator Barbra Walters.
The McCain campaign calls such criticism a "distortion of what she was saying," adding, "She very clearly was saying that she's praying for military men and women to do what's right."
INSIDE EDITION's Megan Alexander spoke to the Reverend Todd Stafford, the associate pastor at the church.
"You feel the media has twisted Governor Palin's relationship with your church?"
"I don’t think very much has been fair to Governor Palin, to this church, or to our pastor," says Stafford.
But the questions about Palin's faith don't end there.
As senior pastor of Wasilla Assembly of God Church, where congregants sometimes speak in tongues, Ed Kalnins has reportedly preached that critics of President George Bush may go to hell, and has called the war in Iraq a "holy war"
During the 2004 Presidential election, the pastor questioned whether supporters of Democrat John Kerry would be accepted into heaven. The church recently posted an apology for the Kerry remark on its website. Palin had already left the church when all the controversial comments were made.
Of course Barack Obama had his own pastor problem, when his former pastor, the Reverend Jeremiah Wright, made fiery comments that ignited a national furor.
Now Palin's religious background is facing the same scrutiny.
A spokesperson for the McCain – Palin campaign said they will not comment on Governor Palin's religion.
AHHH YEP!
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Flashlight
climber
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Sep 29, 2008 - 11:05pm PT
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Warbler,
"That is, if we can deduce from the postings on this site that they are indicative of the climbing population in general."
Also, my "pro-life" stance has nothing whatsoever to do with my faith.
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Flashlight
climber
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Sep 29, 2008 - 11:28pm PT
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Warbler, plenty of people who do not have a "faith" are pro-life.
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Wonder
climber
WA
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Sep 29, 2008 - 11:49pm PT
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Sep 29, 2008 - 11:55pm PT
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Jody
"Also, my "pro-life" stance has nothing whatsoever to do with my faith. "
It also has little to do with life either. You'll defend the rights of a few cells the size of a pin head, but on most other issue when a choice between money and the lives of others is at stake, you choose the money. Show me where you've shown concern about the plight of anybody whose already born.
This "pro-life" moniker is a joke when adopted by pro-death penalty (wasn't that what happened to Jesus) Pro-Gun, Pro-war, anti-social program crowd.
The right to life does not end at birth.
Peace
Karl
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WBraun
climber
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Sep 29, 2008 - 11:59pm PT
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So ......
Pro-life will also mean that you protect the animals and not slaughter them for sense gratification.
In general the Pro-lifers are hypocrites. They support industrialized wholesale slaughter of animals.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
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Sep 30, 2008 - 12:07am PT
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I wrote: "Lois, I agree with what you said about Supertopo. But Time, Newsweek, many major newspapers... hell, even the National Review and Fox News have run articles very critical of Palin. Together, those are much more representative of the USA as a whole than ST. But you ignore all of those, and you seem oblivious to any posts that mention those."
Lois responded, "Granite, I happen to have a subscription to Time and the NYT. They are both decidedly left-leaning. It does not mean they are lacking in all merit but I would not call either objective."
Lois, you just did it again! You were completely oblivious to the part of the post that went against your premise!
It is as if you are wearing polarized glasses that makes you blind to half of the spectrum.
I did mention Time Magazine, but also the National Review and Fox News, both decidedly right-leaning.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
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Sep 30, 2008 - 12:09am PT
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"This "pro-life" moniker is a joke when adopted by pro-death penalty (wasn't that what happened to Jesus) Pro-Gun, Pro-war, anti-social program crowd.
The right to life does not end at birth.
Word!
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Sep 30, 2008 - 12:36am PT
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"HDDJ, just shut up, would you? You haven't correctly deduced one of my responses ever. Warbler mentions my religion, I ask some questions regarding his assertion, and you start squawking that I am being defensive. You have no clue what you are talking about, so go find your happy place and stop bothering us with your juvenile crap."
Ahhh......yesssss. Happy place achieved.
(also lol juvenile crap from the nuke poster himself? tis an honor!)
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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Sep 30, 2008 - 12:45am PT
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WOW, the LEB strikes.
Goddamnitall Lois you double twit, before you start spouting crap about logic maybe you should bother to LEARN and UNDERSTAND something about those subjects.
But alas, that would be too much to ask of you, wouldn't it?
FYI, SOME climbers are FAR right wingers, SOME are Libertarians, and SOME are liberals.
BUT, if climbers of ANY political persuasion were as oblivious and WILLFULLY ignorant (and proud of it) as you are, most of them would be dead, for failing to see the huge problem right in front of them.
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dirtbag
climber
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Sep 30, 2008 - 09:26am PT
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And here's another one being honest, from today's NY Times, which of course must be wrong:
"I think she has pretty thoroughly — and probably irretrievably — proven that she is not up to the job of being president of the United States,” David Frum, a former speechwriter for President Bush who is now a conservative columnist, said in an interview. “If she doesn’t perform well, then people see it."
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/09/30/us/politics/30palin.html?_r=1&pagewanted=print&oref=slogin
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Flashlight
climber
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Sep 30, 2008 - 10:09am PT
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You folks are equating animals(cows) and murderers with innocent human life in the womb...nice.
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GDavis
Trad climber
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Sep 30, 2008 - 11:26am PT
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the Fet
Knackered climber
A bivy sack in the secret campground
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Sep 30, 2008 - 12:13pm PT
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You are equating a clump of cells from a rape with an innocent man wrongly convicted of murder...nice.
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Flashlight
climber
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Sep 30, 2008 - 12:27pm PT
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Fet, I equated you with having some form of intelligence...nice.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Sep 30, 2008 - 12:34pm PT
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Jody your definition of intelligence is lacking. Much like your posting.
How is the "intelligent" viewpoint to be against all abortion based on a purely emotional stance (compassion for unborn babies) and then to: advocate for war, argue that property theft is grounds for homicide, oppose support for education, oppose support for sex/contraceptive education, etc. etc..
As Karl said, the "Culture of Life" apparently ends the moment you pop out.
Personally, I understand the deep compassion that pro-lifers have regarding abortion. I just think they've been horribly, horribly misled on policy. If you actually want to reduce the number of abortions the measures you need to take are very clear. Prohibition doesn't work. Education, sex education, support for women and efforts to reduce poverty does. Ironically (or maybe sadly?) these are all things that pro-life politics excludes most of the time.
"We may not agree on the abortion rights, but we can all agree that less abortions is a good thing." -Barack Obama
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Brunosafari
Boulder climber
Redmond, OR
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Sep 30, 2008 - 12:53pm PT
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Please indulge me...I haven't been able to read all of this thread and am a little amazed by its length since S.Palin has done such a masterful job herself in refuting the suggestion of being VP.
BTW, I liked Werner's analogy of running it out, the deeper awareness most climbers have that life requires a set of skills and if neglected, there is the result of a deathly fall--the idea of responsibility and consequence. Our nation could really benefit from that.
On the subject of the Religious Right... I appreciate the distinctions Warbler makes. I've been watching this movement at close range for thirty-four years. I definately believe the Christian Right has been, and is often easily and witlessly manipulated by the the Political Right. Since Christianity, by its own admission, is populated by sheep, I mainly hold the shepherds accountable. Yet in America it is hard to excuse the sanctification of ignorance by any group or individual.
In both politics and religion, all suffer when leadership is allowed to be lazy and unscrutinized.
We expect our plumbers and electricians to know their trade. We expect teachers to be able to read and compute. We (should) expect ministers to know and reverence the Scriptures. We should expect our Vice President to love America and its people enough to understand history and to be able to intelligently articulate leadership in a supremely complex and challenging arena.
McCain and Palin have dishonored all of us, especially those who are foolish and ignorant enough to trust them with the future of our Republic.
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dirtbag
climber
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Sep 30, 2008 - 01:00pm PT
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I'm still waiting for one of her defenders to post just one coherent thought from that interview.
Just one!
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Flashlight
climber
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Sep 30, 2008 - 01:14pm PT
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I am waiting for Obama supporters to post one good reason that qualifies him to be President, just one!
You know Palin is a viable threat based on the amount of flak she is getting.
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dirtbag
climber
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Sep 30, 2008 - 01:15pm PT
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It's been done before.
Now post up or shut up and get packed for your trip!
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dirtbag
climber
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Sep 30, 2008 - 01:21pm PT
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"Here's the problem, neither Palin ...have the experience or judgement to be president. "
Wow, glad you see the light and will at least admit it.
But what does it say about McCain's judgement that he appointed her?
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Sep 30, 2008 - 01:32pm PT
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"I am waiting for Obama supporters to post one good reason that qualifies him to be President, just one!"
This is classic Jody.
*demands to know something*
*gets 20 substantive replies*
*acts like he didn't see them and demands again*
If you wonder why most of us just laugh at you and call you names it's because you patently ignore posts with any real substance that you might have to think about before replying, or worse yet RETHINK how you think about something.
*edit* All I see in this thread is a lot of com-palining! (boosh)
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the Fet
Knackered climber
A bivy sack in the secret campground
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Sep 30, 2008 - 01:53pm PT
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"I am waiting for Obama supporters to post one good reason that qualifies him to be President, just one!"
Here's 2
He's not McCain!
He can dunk!
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Flashlight
climber
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Sep 30, 2008 - 01:59pm PT
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Fet, there was only ONE in your list.
He can dunk.:)
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Flashlight
climber
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Sep 30, 2008 - 02:08pm PT
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Interesting how Obama's huge gaffe when he admitted to his "Muslim" faith has not gotten any play whatsoever. The guy is a liar and a fraud.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XKGdkqfBICw
How will you libs spin this one?
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UncleDoug
Social climber
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Sep 30, 2008 - 02:10pm PT
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"The guy is a liar and a fraud."
Back to grade school.... takes one to know one, Jody.
You are a fraud of a human being.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Sep 30, 2008 - 02:16pm PT
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Haha Jody. You are pathetic.
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Flashlight
climber
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Sep 30, 2008 - 02:16pm PT
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Predictable spin without addressing the gaffe.
Thanks for the help in proving my point Doug, HDDJ, et al.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Sep 30, 2008 - 02:19pm PT
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dirtbag
climber
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Sep 30, 2008 - 02:21pm PT
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Because undoubtedly he is an America Hating fundamentalist-Muslim who wants to shoot all the Christians and Jews.
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dirtbag
climber
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Sep 30, 2008 - 02:23pm PT
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And still, no one has been able to post anything coherent that she said in that interview.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Sep 30, 2008 - 02:27pm PT
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Jody calling you pathetic is a statement of fact. What is there to address? He accidentally said "muslim" instead of "christian." Oooooooh. Sound the alarm. Alert the authorities!
OBAMA IS A SECRET MULSIM AND PART OF A TERRORIST CELL!
Pathetic fearmongering.
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BBWolf
climber
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Sep 30, 2008 - 02:29pm PT
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TGT
Your cartoon is idiotic. There, you got a reply now will you stop posting it everywhere.
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Flashlight
climber
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Sep 30, 2008 - 02:30pm PT
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If you are truly a Christian, you would not "accidentally" say you are Muslim. Sorry DJ, knott good enough. Don't care if he is a Muslim...he is just a blatant liar.
LOL! I knew the spin on this would be funny...
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Flashlight
climber
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Sep 30, 2008 - 02:31pm PT
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Truth hurt, BB?
Why is it idiotic?
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Dick_Lugar
Trad climber
Indiana (the other Mideast)
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Sep 30, 2008 - 02:33pm PT
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Dimlight...A "gaffe" by definition is an erroneous comment or mistake. So his statement about his mulism faith was misspoken. What's your point? Oh that's right, I forgot your conservative's mantra is thus:
"leftists and terrorists and muslims, OH MY!"
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JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
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Sep 30, 2008 - 02:36pm PT
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Anyone that has anything negative to say about Sarah will answer to me.
She is the perfect example of womanhood to come down the political pipeline in history.
Anyone that does not like Sarah is a sack of crap.
PS
F*#k you all.
Juan
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dirtbag
climber
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Sep 30, 2008 - 02:37pm PT
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"If you are truly a Christian, you would not "accidentally" say you are Muslim. Sorry DJ, knott good enough. Don't care if he is a Muslim...he is just a blatant liar.
LOL! I knew the spin on this would be funny..."
Funny as hell, you're right.
You are being suckered by the right-wing smear machine.
http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/muslim.asp
And yes, you would care that he is a Muslim.
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dirtbag
climber
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Sep 30, 2008 - 02:38pm PT
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"Anyone that has anything negative to say about Sarah will answer to me. "
I find her doable. That's positive!
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Ouch!
climber
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Sep 30, 2008 - 02:38pm PT
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Take a couple of the red ones, Juan. Dull the memories.
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the Fet
Knackered climber
A bivy sack in the secret campground
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Sep 30, 2008 - 02:40pm PT
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I'm really beginning to appreciate Sarah. I saw the Tina Fey version of the Katie Couric interview and it was funny. After that I saw the actual interview, I don't know which one was funnier.
Funny how the I said no to the Bridge to Nowhere and I sold the Governor's jet on ebay lines dropped out of her speeches.
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dirtbag
climber
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Sep 30, 2008 - 02:42pm PT
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"Truth hurt, BB?"
Truth has a liberal bias, Jody. Remember that and you'll do fine.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Sep 30, 2008 - 02:53pm PT
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"If you are truly a Christian, you would not "accidentally" say you are Muslim. Sorry DJ, knott good enough. Don't care if he is a Muslim...he is just a blatant liar. "
Really? Tell us more about what it means to be a "true Christian." Obviously more of your insightful and substantive posting would enlighten us all.
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Flashlight
climber
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Sep 30, 2008 - 02:59pm PT
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That is a nice link dirtbag, however it doesn't address the video clip of his major gaffe.
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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Sep 30, 2008 - 03:02pm PT
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Nice one Bruno.
No kidding.
I think you summed it up better than any of the pundits.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Sep 30, 2008 - 03:03pm PT
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"Real Christians" apparently sit on the internet questioning other people's religion. Now I'm clear. So you are correct, Obama is not a "real Christian."
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Flashlight
climber
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Sep 30, 2008 - 03:05pm PT
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I am knott accusing him of being a "radical" Muslim. All I am saying is his "Christian" faith isn't very deep or he would NEVER even make an "innocent mistake" like that.
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dirtbag
climber
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Sep 30, 2008 - 03:07pm PT
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"That is a nice link dirtbag, however it doesn't address the video clip of his major gaffe. "
It's called a slip of the tongue, Jody. If you try to find truths in every slip of the tongue, you're going to be sorting a lot of bad info.
I don't think that's all there is to it though. I remember 6 months ago you posted something about warning us to that Muslim terrorists wouldn't admit they are Muslim on a thread discussing Obama. So, you've bought into this long ago. When you use something like this gaffe as evidence though, you're really stretching.
So how about that Palin interview?
I think she might have been speaking in tongues.
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dirtbag
climber
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Sep 30, 2008 - 03:08pm PT
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Fatty, I know that, and that is why she stays with McCain.
BUT: he stuck us with someone who is completely unqualified to be President should his 72 year old body give out. I find that completely reprehensible.
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Flashlight
climber
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Sep 30, 2008 - 03:11pm PT
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How do you have a "slip of the tongue" on THAT issue?
And, if it IS a "slip of the tongue", why hasn't it gotten more attention?
If Sarah Palin had made the same "slip", you guys would string her up and you know it.
I am just saying....
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Flashlight
climber
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Sep 30, 2008 - 03:12pm PT
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Dirtbag, and what, exactly, qualifies Obama to be president?
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webee
Trad climber
colorado
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Sep 30, 2008 - 03:15pm PT
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Hey juan back at you
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dirtbag
climber
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Sep 30, 2008 - 03:16pm PT
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"How do you have a "slip of the tongue" on THAT issue?"
You give countless interviews and press conferences every week, day in and day out often with little sleep and you are going to make stupid comments.
"And, if it IS a "slip of the tongue", why hasn't it gotten more attention?"
Because most people recognize it for the trivial goof up that it is?
"If Sarah Palin had made the same "slip", you guys would string her up and you know it."
Well, first of all she hasn't really made herself available very often outside of prepared speeches. So the issue is rather moot.
But...what people on this thread are harping and nagging on aren't gaffes, but the fact that she said basically nothing intelligible in that interview. It was several minutes of random garble.
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dirtbag
climber
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Sep 30, 2008 - 03:19pm PT
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"Dirtbag, and what, exactly, qualifies Obama to be president? "
Jody, whether you agree with it or not, people have at least tried to answer the question. You just don't like their answers. You can look it up in this thread or others.
I'm still waiting for you or other Palin defenders to show something she said that was intelligible in that interview. I haven't seen anyone even try. To his credit, Fatty isn't even going to pretend it was intelligible.
Think about it, that's a pretty low bar I'm setting!
And still...no takers, in this thread or others!
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Sep 30, 2008 - 03:20pm PT
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I'm willing to be they were talking about how idiots like Jody think Obama is a secret Muslim right before.
Fatty- I have stated several times that McCain's sunni/shia mistake and his Iran is training Al Qaeda gaffe were obvious misstatements by a tired old man on the road.
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Flashlight
climber
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Sep 30, 2008 - 03:21pm PT
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What is wrong with repeating it here?
Give me a few quick examples. I don't feel like searching the threads for it.
I also find it amusing that the Democratic Presidential nominee is running against the Republican Vice-presidential nominee.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Sep 30, 2008 - 03:22pm PT
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He isn't. He always talks about McCain, not Palin.
What I find amusing is that you get all worked up cruising republican hack job websites/radio all morning and then come here and try to repeat their drivel.
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webee
Trad climber
colorado
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Sep 30, 2008 - 03:24pm PT
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Hey Fat,youre last comment didnt make any sense. Typacal eh?
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dirtbag
climber
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Sep 30, 2008 - 03:24pm PT
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"Give me a few quick examples. I don't feel like searching the threads for it."
Oh no. Someone listed them earlier, and you can google obama threads just as quickly as I can. It's already been done.
So Palin defender--show me some sign of intelligence in that interview! That's something that hasn't been done yet, on this thread or others.
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Flashlight
climber
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Sep 30, 2008 - 03:25pm PT
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If you all are so confident in your guy, why all the angst?
Got any examples off the top of your head dirtbag?
I haven't watched the interview.
I'll take your word for it thet she didn't do well. So what? Why should Obama be president?
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
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Sep 30, 2008 - 03:25pm PT
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"I also find it amusing that the Democratic Presidential nominee is running against the Republican Vice-presidential nominee."
The Democratic nominee is running against McCain, but the crowd is too busy watching the clown (Palin) steal the show. The crowd does't want a discussion of serious issues, they want to be entertained.
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webee
Trad climber
colorado
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Sep 30, 2008 - 03:30pm PT
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Its obvious,the clown is more populer,than the jestor
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
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Sep 30, 2008 - 03:32pm PT
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"Why should Obama be president?"
Because it is God's will.
"No it isn’t."
Yes it is.
"No it isn’t."
Yes it is.
"No it isn’t."
Yes it is.
"No it isn’t."
Yes it is.
"No it isn’t."
Yes it is.
"No it isn’t."
Yes it is.
"No it isn’t."
Yes it is.
"No it isn’t."
Yes it is.
"No it isn’t."
Yes it is.
"No it isn’t."
Yes it is.
"No it isn’t."
Yes it is.
"No it isn’t."
Yes it is.
"No it isn’t."
Yes it is.
"No it isn’t."
Yes it is.
"No it isn’t."
Yes it is.
"No it isn’t."
Yes it is.
"No it isn’t."
Yes it is.
"No it isn’t."
Yes it is.
"No it isn’t."
Yes it is.
"No it isn’t."
Yes it is.
"No it isn’t."
Yes it is.
"No it isn’t."
Yes it is.
"No it isn’t."
Yes it is.
"No it isn’t."
Yes it is.
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Flashlight
climber
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Sep 30, 2008 - 03:39pm PT
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The reason for Obama being president that keeps being repeated here is that Palin SHOULDN'T be.
Not that strong of a case FOR your guy.
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stevep
Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
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Sep 30, 2008 - 03:43pm PT
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Since you free market GOP folks are so big on the fact that the market will get things right, take a look at the intrade prediction market for the election:
http://www.intrade.com/
Obama way ahead.
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dirtbag
climber
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Sep 30, 2008 - 03:45pm PT
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"If you all are so confident in your guy, why all the angst? "
Because folks like you and Lois seem intent on supporting her no matter how plainly unqualified she is.
Bad? No Jody, the interview was not bad. It was a travesty. I am not exaggerating when I say she could not say one thing with any sort of clarity. The entire interview showed no knowledge or interest in issues of national importance--none--beyond what Fatty's people have fed her the past few weeks. And even that she messed up badly. It was all Palibabble.
Don't take my word for it, watch the clips yourself. See why many conservatives are deeply concerned about her fitness for office.
And if you want to see how I or others feel about Obama, bump an old thread. I'm not going to play red herring.
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dirtbag
climber
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Sep 30, 2008 - 03:45pm PT
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Fatty, the trouble with the shia sunni gaffe is that he seemed actually confused. His pal Joe Lieberman had to coreect him.
Then, Ooops! he did it again.
But...I think it was probably just a momentary brain fart.
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jstan
climber
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Sep 30, 2008 - 03:54pm PT
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A minor point concerning confusion.
A president has to deal with confusing situations and do it adroitly when facing the best people on two legs - with a lot at stake.
We need to elect people who can work in that environment.
It is one of the many job requirements.
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the Fet
Knackered climber
A bivy sack in the secret campground
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Sep 30, 2008 - 03:58pm PT
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"Why should Obama be president?"
Because he's black, liberal, and a muslim. That's sure to piss off a lot of conservatives!
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
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Sep 30, 2008 - 03:59pm PT
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It is McCain and the Republicans who needed Palin. They needed Palin to "reenergize" their campaign and create more "enthusiasm"for the McCain ticket. Why did they need her so much? Why are they so attracted to her?
What is so wrong about McCain that he needed to bring in someone like Palin to even have a chance at winning?
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
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Sep 30, 2008 - 04:06pm PT
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"You used "tired old man", then Obama must be a Muslim."
Fattrad, your logic is faulty. "Tired old man" may be rude and not PC but is is mostly true. McCain is indisputably old and indisputably a man, and as a human, he is tired for much of each day (at least while he is sleeping). So the statement is at least 66% true 100% of the time, and 100% true about 33% of the time (at least).
On the other hand, your statement that Obama is 100% false 100% of the time.
There is only one front on which the McCain campaign is winning. They are winning the contest as to who can tell the biggest lies.
Edit: now if the phrase describing McCain was "cantankerous old man" that would have been 100% true all the time.
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Sep 30, 2008 - 04:11pm PT
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Why am I voting for Obama over McCain.
He is smart. He graduated high in his class from two important schools.
He understands constitutional law.
He showed a better understanding of war when he opposed the Iraq war and he showed courage of convictions by opposing it when it was politically difficult to oppose it. He didn't bow to pressure as McCain has on many many subjects including torture.
He wants All Americans to have health care.
He can think on his feet.
He doesn't play silly little games like McCain, such as not looking at the person you are debating.
He doesn't bow to the religious right.
He can control his temper, unlike McCain.
He understands that taking a position of not listening to your enemies leaves you trapped in a corner of only being able to resort to force. Something McCain does not understand.
There you go. Just a few reasons I will be voting for him.
Oh yes, and he can dunk.
Edit: To add, his tax plan makes a hell of a lot more sense for the average American then does McCain's.
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Flashlight
climber
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Sep 30, 2008 - 04:16pm PT
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Because I don't like McCain either.
I have posted why I don't like McCain. I admit, Obama would be much worse, but I am tired of voting against people, I want to vote FOR someone.
I am leaning toward Allan Keyes.
Obama's gaffe might have been an excusable misstatement...I'll concede that point. I just wish you folks could be equal opportunity gaffe criticizers.
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dirtbag
climber
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Sep 30, 2008 - 04:56pm PT
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Sep 30, 2008 - 05:35pm PT
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Fatty his own excuse for making those gaffes was that he had had an extremely demanding and tiring trip. And he IS old. Trying to spin your own guy's spin is kind of stupid.
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divad
Trad climber
wmass
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Sep 30, 2008 - 08:01pm PT
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He can really dunk?
That's good enough for me.
Hell, If seeing Russia from Alaska qualifies for VPsoontobePOTUS, then dunkin' is a way better qualifier.
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jstan
climber
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Sep 30, 2008 - 08:03pm PT
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I think that is the only picture I have seen with McCain smiling.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Sep 30, 2008 - 11:00pm PT
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SUPREME COURT QUESTION CONFIRMED!!
Haha this is great and will air on Thursday before the debate. In addition to not being able to name a single newspaper that she reads (even after claiming that she reads a number of them AND was a friggin journalism major) she apparently can not name a single Supreme Court decision besides Roe vs Wade. She just deer in headlights.
Schadenfreude has never felt so good.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Sep 30, 2008 - 11:59pm PT
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"She just deer in headlights."
Hopefully she won't be shot from a helicopter!
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dogtown
climber
Where I once was,I think?
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Yeah,not much hope.
Looks like we are stuck with Obama and his big mouth buddy.
SOL
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mojede
Trad climber
Butte, America
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"Alaska is like a microcosm of America"--Sarah Palin
oy vay
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mbb
climber
the slick
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Hey Fattrad, other Repubs, since none of you answered my question on the other post, I will ask it here. Do you think McCain will start his campaign up again if we get a deal on the bailout this week? What have you guys been doing with all of the down time?
Thank god he dropped everything and came to Washington instead of sitting on the sidelines like Obama, he has been instrumental in getting this thing passed. Will Palin debate or is she still on standby waiting for a deal to be reached?
What a fabulous job these two have done to energize and bring the party together. The leadership McCain has proven he commands over the party is amazing, particularly with the senators from his home state.
What a leader!
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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I hate to bump a political thread this lame, but I also don't want to start a new one. The past week's polls are coming out and suggest big shifts in the states. If the internal polls look similar, things are going to get really ugly really fast.
If I were a GOP candidate, at state or Presidential level, I'd unleash the hounds right now. They're going to have to do something to get the Dems negatives up and suppress turnout. The new numbers are giving Obama 8 points and up, which is probably enough to overcome the Bradley effect if the Dems turn out the voters.
http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
|
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"If I were a GOP candidate, at state or Presidential level, I'd unleash the hounds right now. "
You can take that to the failing bank. It's going to get ugly!
peace
Karl
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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I'm sorry but the hounds are unleashed. The RNC releases ads practically every day making unfounded claims about Obama's tax plan, the bailout plan and blah blah blah. The heat is up full blast.
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klk
Trad climber
cali
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hddj: "I'm sorry but the hounds are unleashed."
Those aren't hounds-- they're chihuahuas.
Especially at the local and state level, the dark side is going to go to a very different level. My guess is that it'll get a lot nastier than what happened to McCain in Carolina.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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The Dems don't even need hounds....we can just let Palin keep talking.
In this glorious clip, Couric asks Biden and Palin the same two questions. Biden answers clearly with specifics. Palin runs out of talking points and then just starts grasping at bullsh#t. Not as much of a total meltdown as the economic bailout response, but more solid evidence that she's as fit to be VP as she is to be an astronaut. There are no gaffes here, just a total inability to show even a shred of knowledge about the issue beyond what her handlers told her to say.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBt0r9Exv2I
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
|
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As a society, we must do more to curb the tide of teenage, unwed pregnancy. Liberals talk tough on the subject, but it is just that: talk. We Republicans have taken the lead on this issue and must make it part of the agenda for '08."
--Alaska Governor Sarah Palin at the Republican National Committee "Victory in '08" conference, November 2007.
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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Holy bimbo, Batman!
That's pretty strong stuff in that pole.
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jstan
climber
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GC:
There has to a mistake with the attribution on your link.
That must be off Saturday Night Live.
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dirtbag
climber
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With that said Other Dirt, she probably still helps him by getting the base excited and sending money.
On the other hand, if a candidate doesn't have a good handle on the base by convention time, he's in deep trouble anyway. Nixon's old rule about running hard to the right (or left for Dems) during the primaries and to the center during the generals still holds true.
BTW, polls today and yesterday are looking great for Obama, even in Ohio and Florida. :-)
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bobinc
Trad climber
Portland, Or
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McCain's newest campaign slogan: "Life isn't fair."
Maybe he should rename his old bus the Irony Express.
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malabarista
Trad climber
San Francisco, Ca
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I guess McCain is just one of the "nation of whiners". haha. Thanks Phil.
He must think it's "not fair" that all the lying, hypocrisy, bad VP choice, and kowtowing have failed to win or convince people that he's "putting the country first". He's unloaded so many cartloads of B.S. and backtracked so many times that no one knows who the real McCain is anymore, if there even is someone with an independent will behind his miserable campaign machinery.
“I think the point is, who is she as a person? I think that's what people are ultimately looking for,” Lieberman said.
Oh yes Joe, what we want in a VP is someone completely touchy feely and idiotic.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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My buddy told me of the scenario where Palin drops out 10 days before the election and Rudy steps in as VP on the ticket.
All the headlines go Republican for the last days before the election, effectively stealing anything the Dems say or do.
Then he said that if that didn't work, there'd be a real Oct. surprise.
I honestly don't think these guys are gonna just pack up their bags and leave after a "fair" election.
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dirtbag
climber
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I don't see Rudy stepping in.
Palin is important to McCain because he keeps the base fired up, doing foot work, giving money, etc. Guiliani was probably the only Republican candidate who excited the base even less than McCain.
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Brunosafari
Boulder climber
Redmond, OR
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Hounds would pick up the scent quickly...chihuahuas will chew'm dead.
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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Oct 19, 2008 - 07:00pm PT
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HEHE, you are too funny.
I've said plenty about Powell in two other threads, but GOD, if only that man had been the republican nominee in 2000, we would not be in this mess.
I'm actually going to have to write him some fan mail.
That interview was magnificent.
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nature
climber
Santa Fe, NM
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Oct 19, 2008 - 07:04pm PT
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dirtbag, you forgot to point out that Powell also hates hockey moms (soccer moms most likely as well).
teeeheee
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JuanDeFuca
Big Wall climber
Stoney Point
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Oct 19, 2008 - 10:57pm PT
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Did you see Sarah on Saturday Night Live.
Vote a Knockout!
Juan
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Oct 19, 2008 - 11:03pm PT
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Sorry, Juan, that was Tina Fey.
The New York Times predicts a successful second career for Palin as a talkshow host.
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Studly
Trad climber
WA
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Oct 20, 2008 - 12:23am PT
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If some people on this website think that Palin is actually capable of being President, what does that say about those people?
Maybe we should call them cavers instead of climbers...
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dirtbag
climber
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Oct 20, 2008 - 02:27pm PT
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Christopher Hitchens is right: the press should stop covering Palin.
Hitchens is hardly a knee-jerk Dem.
http://www.slate.com/id/2202642/
Funny how Palin supporters don't seem bothered by the fact that McCain's camp. does not allow Palin to do interviews with non-friendly media any more, or has ever allowed her to do a press conference.
I expect to hear the sounds of cricket's chirping from Palin's supporters on this one.
Gee, do ya think her handlers are maybe just a little afraid to allow her to speak?
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bobinc
Trad climber
Portland, Or
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Oct 22, 2008 - 10:10am PT
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Looks like Palin got to go on a spending spree at Needless Markup and bought more than lipstick:
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/1008/14805.html
Article just above notes no one is stepping forward to write McCain a big check... no surprise there.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Oct 22, 2008 - 10:40am PT
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From Bob's link
"The RNC also spent $4,716.49 on hair and makeup through September after reporting no such costs in August."
Funny, Edward's $400 haircut made the front pages!
Peace
Karl
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dirtbag
climber
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Oct 22, 2008 - 11:24am PT
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I guess Real America Joe Six Packs and Plumbers shop at Saks Fifth Avenue and Neiman Marcus?
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
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Oct 27, 2008 - 02:18am PT
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The conservative Financial Times endorsed Obama today with this thoughtful editorial.
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/1d0b127c-a380-11dd-942c-000077b07658.html?nclick_check=1
Obama is the better choice
Published: October 26 2008 19:31 | Last updated: October 26 2008 19:31
US presidential elections involve a fabulous expense of time, effort and money. Doubtless it is all too much – but, by the end, nobody can complain that the candidates have been too little scrutinised. We have learnt a lot about Barack Obama and John McCain during this campaign. In our view, it is enough to be confident that Mr Obama is the right choice.
At the outset, we were not so confident. Mr Obama is inexperienced. His policies are a blend of good, not so good and downright bad. Since the election will strengthen Democratic control of Congress, a case can be made for returning a Republican to the White House: divided government has a better record in the United States than government united under either party.
So this ought to have been a close call. With a week remaining before the election, we cannot feel that it is.
Mr Obama fought a much better campaign. Campaigning is not the same as governing, and the presidency should not be a prize for giving the best speeches, devising the best television advertisements, shaking the most hands and kissing the most babies.
Nonetheless, a campaign is a test of leadership. Mr Obama ran his superbly; Mr McCain’s has often looked a shambles. After eight years of George W. Bush, the steady competence of the Obama operation commands respect.
Nor should one disdain Mr Obama’s way with a crowd. Good presidents engage the country’s attention; great ones inspire. Mr McCain, on form, is an adequate speaker but no more. Mr Obama, on form, is as fine a political orator as the country has heard in decades. Put to the right purposes, this is no mere decoration but a priceless asset.
Mr Obama’s purposes do seem mostly right, though in saying this we give him the benefit of the doubt. Above all, he prizes consensus and genuinely seeks to unite the country, something it wants. His call for change struck a mighty chord in a tired and demoralised nation – and who could promise real change more credibly than Mr Obama, a black man, whose very nomination was a historic advance in US politics?
We applaud his main domestic proposal: comprehensive health-care reform. This plan would achieve nearly universal insurance without the mandates of rival schemes: characteristically, it combines a far-sighted goal with moderation in the method. Mr McCain’s plan, based on extending tax relief beyond employer-provided insurance, also has merit – it would contain costs better – but is too timid and would widen coverage much less.
Mr Obama is most disappointing on trade. He pandered to protectionists during the primaries, and has not rowed back. He may be sincere, which is troubling. Should he win the election, a Democratic Congress will expect him to keep those trade-thumping promises. Mr McCain has been bravely and consistently pro-trade, much to his credit.
In responding to the economic emergency, Mr Obama has again impressed – not by advancing solutions of his own, but in displaying a calm and methodical disposition, and in seeking the best advice. Mr McCain’s hasty half-baked interventions were unnerving when they were not beside the point.
On foreign policy, where the candidates have often conspired to exaggerate their differences, this contrast in temperaments seems crucial. For all his experience, Mr McCain has seemed too much guided by an instinct for peremptory action, an exaggerated sense of certainty, and a reluctance to see shades of grey.
He has offered risk-taking almost as his chief qualification, but gambles do not always pay off. His choice of Sarah Palin as running mate, widely acknowledged to have been a mistake, is an obtrusive case in point. Rashness is not a virtue in a president. The cautious and deliberate Mr Obama is altogether a less alarming prospect.
Rest assured that, should he win, Mr Obama is bound to disappoint. How could he not? He is expected to heal the country’s racial divisions, reverse the trend of rising inequality, improve middle-class living standards, cut almost everybody’s taxes, transform the image of the United States abroad, end the losses in Iraq, deal with the mess in Afghanistan and much more besides.
Succeeding in those endeavours would require more than uplifting oratory and presidential deportment even if the economy were growing rapidly, which it will not be.
The challenges facing the next president will be extraordinary. We hesitate to wish it on anyone, but we hope that Mr Obama gets the job.
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Dick_Lugar
Trad climber
Indiana (the other Mideast)
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Oct 27, 2008 - 02:27am PT
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Those damn elitists at the FT's!
I'll tell you what, I spent an hour or two tonight watching videos from McCain/Palin supporters and they are filled with alot of hate and anger towards Obama. I know, both sides can fling the mud, but these folks on the far right really frighten me. If Obama wins, I truly fear for his safety. Call me crazy, but that's the vibe these folks give off. G'nite.
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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Oct 27, 2008 - 03:03am PT
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I agree Dick, and I've been saying that for a long time.
The secret service had better be on their toes.
And god help us if McCain/Palin come to power. That will truly be the end of the USA.
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