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klinefelter
Boulder climber
Bishop, CA
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Topic Author's Original Post - Sep 25, 2008 - 03:52pm PT
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For the first time since the Civil War, on Oct. 1st the Army will be permanently stationing an active unit, the 3rd Infantry Division’s 1st Brigade Combat Team, within the U.S. borders. They will serve as an "on-call Federal response in times of emergency" with focus on "civil unrest and crowd control using nonlethal weapons designed to subdue unruly or dangerous individuals."
Dwight D. Eisenhower - In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the military-industrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.
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Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Sep 25, 2008 - 04:02pm PT
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It's nice to see that the Ministry of Fatherland Security is on the ball.
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mojede
Trad climber
Butte, America
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Sep 25, 2008 - 04:02pm PT
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Didn't the founding fathers have a just fear against "standing armies" within the US ?
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howlostami
Trad climber
Southern Tier, NY
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Sep 25, 2008 - 04:04pm PT
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Scary scary sh*t.
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klinefelter
Boulder climber
Bishop, CA
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 25, 2008 - 04:06pm PT
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Didn't the founding fathers have a just fear against "standing armies" within the US ?
Yes, they did. And the Posse Comitatus Act prevented such situations -- until George fixed that.
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Chaz
Trad climber
So. Cal.
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Sep 25, 2008 - 04:16pm PT
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You think it'll be worse here than Castro's Cuba or Hussein's Iraq?
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TKingsbury
Trad climber
MT
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Sep 25, 2008 - 04:19pm PT
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^^^
Is that the new baseline for freedom?
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Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Sep 25, 2008 - 04:21pm PT
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if it comes to that, I do, chaz. Castro and Saddam were not religious nutjobs.
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mojede
Trad climber
Butte, America
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Sep 25, 2008 - 04:39pm PT
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Chaz, it's hard to say, but the GERMANs were better off under Hitler, and the RUSSIANs better off under Stalin.
Of course, if you weren't a pure German or Russian you were pretty much killed off.
But the ones that were pure were happy.
You gonna start selling flags along with them avacados, Chaz?
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paganmonkeyboy
climber
mars...it's near nevada...
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Sep 25, 2008 - 04:40pm PT
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just in time to cancel the elections due to the unprecedented economic crisis ?
na....yer paranoid...
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noshoesnoshirt
climber
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Sep 25, 2008 - 04:41pm PT
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We're all f*#ked. Even if this cockamamie bail-out goes through your dollars will be worth less than half their current value in a couple of years.
A bunch of as#@&%es on Wall Street threw a party and we all get to pick up the tab.
No real coincident that US combat troops are going on full-time crowd control duty.
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Gary
climber
Desolation Basin, Calif.
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Sep 25, 2008 - 04:52pm PT
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Yeah, we've got that going for us.
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originalpmac
Trad climber
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Sep 25, 2008 - 07:42pm PT
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this is an atrocity. how could one potentially and peacefully try to stop this. Write your f*#king congressman or some sh#t? I am getting paranoid. and scared.
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Raydog
Trad climber
Boulder Colorado
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Sep 25, 2008 - 08:10pm PT
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RE:
" I am getting paranoid. and scared. "
time to go on the down-low, homie.
and I mean for real.
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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Sep 26, 2008 - 01:43pm PT
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Um that is supposed to be illegal, isn't it?
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WoodySt
Trad climber
Riverside
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Sep 26, 2008 - 02:08pm PT
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I've got an idea: you guys should all run off to Canada or Europe. You'll feel safe there, and the mental health situation in the US will improve dramatically.
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noshoesnoshirt
climber
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Sep 26, 2008 - 02:13pm PT
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So Woody, you think ditching posse comitatus is a good idea?
Sounds like something a shifty liberal would say. Or a provocateur.
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andanother
climber
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Sep 26, 2008 - 02:49pm PT
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Wow. It's all starting to make sense.
GW has been planning this for a long time, and it hasn't exactly been kept much of a secret. I thought the reason behind it was because he was planning an attack on the US, similar to 9/11.
But it turns out his "attack" is actually the destruction of our economy. It's evil genius!
Something big will be announced on Monday or Tuesday. And after that, I think we can stop worrying about the election since it's not going to happen.
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tooth
Mountain climber
B.C.
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Sep 26, 2008 - 04:00pm PT
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Woody,
There never will be a violation of law. Each law will be done away with, each right will be erased, and slowly but surely your free American society will change.
If Bush had done away with all the things he has, plus install military and CIA on US soil to operate, plus say that if there is a 'crisis' martial law will be declared and democratic voting suspended all on the first day he came into office, you would be worried.
But, like the frog in the pot, the water has boiled too slowly for some dim people to notice. And Bush knows his country is full of dim people.
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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Sep 26, 2008 - 04:14pm PT
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Seems like I remember something about the US army cannot act against the us citizenry.
I bet you can find that if you try.
I think we've ahd this conversation before in fact.
http://www.thefiringline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=312167
http://www.armytimes.com/news/2008/09/army_homeland_090708w/
OK, so it DEFENSE onlyh then?
ANd there's this:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=posse+comitatus&spell=1
BUT hten there's THIS stuff-- a quote from this site:
http://www.homelandsecurity.org/journal/articles/Trebilcock.htm
History
The original 1878 Posse Comitatus Act was indeed passed with the intent of removing the Army from domestic law enforcement. Posse comitatus means “the power of the county,” reflecting the inherent power of the old West county sheriff to call upon a posse of able-bodied men to supplement law enforcement assets and thereby maintain the peace. Following the Civil War, the Army had been used extensively throughout the South to maintain civil order, to enforce the policies of the Reconstruction era, and to ensure that any lingering sentiments of rebellion were crushed. However, in reaching those goals, the Army necessarily became involved in traditional police roles and in enforcing politically volatile Reconstruction-era policies. The stationing of federal troops at political events and polling places under the justification of maintaining domestic order became of increasing concern to Congress, which felt that the Army was becoming politicized and straying from its original national defense mission. The Posse Comitatus Act was passed to remove the Army from civilian law enforcement and to return it to its role of defending the borders of the United States.
SO let's hope reason prevails, eh?
BY the way, in the 30's McArthur (yeah THAT McArthur, the one who ordered the national guard to FIRE on veterans of ww1 for protesting in DC) wrote a pamphlet about using the military to control American citizens, primarily because he feared the red scare, and a possible revolution of the jobless masses.
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lucaskrajnik
Trad climber
Anchorage, AK
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Sep 26, 2008 - 04:25pm PT
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Well, the guard, isnt the best of the military imo, and also they're just getting prepared for the revolution I lead after the election. I am John Conner.... of 2008
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Sep 26, 2008 - 04:33pm PT
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"I've got an idea: you guys should all run off to Canada or Europe. You'll feel safe there, and the mental health situation in the US will improve dramatically."
We didn't want that constitution anyway.
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WoodySt
Trad climber
Riverside
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Sep 26, 2008 - 05:23pm PT
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This is what's going to happen: there will be an election; either Obama or McCain will win; Bush will go home to Texas. You fellows than then start looking for some other delusion to keep you busy until that delusion runs its life course, then you can look for another paranoid delusion to keep you occupied and on and on.
Now, if the election of one or the other above results in loonies from the right/left--racist militia groups out of Idaho or Marxist revolutionary types out of wherever--start an insurrection some where that the National Guard can't handle, then the Fed will nationalize the Guard and possibly throw in regular army troops like was done in LA or Ark. and clean them out. The vast majority of Americans will clap and cheer then go back to their usual daily activities. It will all be legal and make a point.
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noshoesnoshirt
climber
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Sep 26, 2008 - 05:39pm PT
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Woody,
You are at least correct on the fact that this is not a republican or democrat thing.
But regardless of which party controls the white house or the congress or the supreme court, our key constitutional rights are being slowly whittled away.
It's more than a little bit frightening.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Sep 26, 2008 - 08:02pm PT
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It's completely delusional if you think that basing a combat brigade in the US because it is not needed in Iraq or Europe is some kind of plot.
The major focus for the dual aspect training is disaster relief. The total failure of Mary Landreu, Ray Nagan,the Louisiana NG and state and local govt. during Katrina with the feds geting the blame is the reason for the secondary mission training.
They aren't about to repeat that error.
Nothing secret about this. It's been all over the military news sites and blogs for years.
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