Discussion Topic |
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| Messages 1 - 84 of total 84 in this topic |
bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Sep 10, 2008 - 01:02pm PT
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Democraticunderground? Might as post up some DailyKos Krap!!!
Pfft!
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 10, 2008 - 01:30pm PT
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Rather than resorting to adolescent ridicule, how about reading it and thinking for a change. Or are you guys not capable of doing that?
Yea, I went there.
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Russ Walling
Social climber
Nutsonthechin, Wisconsin
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Sep 10, 2008 - 01:49pm PT
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I did read it. It is pure bunk and filled with looney conspiracy theory crap with a far left bent. Of course, you are free to believe whatever you want, and if his words are your words, then so be it. Believe on.
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WoodySt
Trad climber
Riverside
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Sep 10, 2008 - 01:51pm PT
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I'll stick with Popular Mechanics. The Truthers are nuts.
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burntheman
Trad climber
slt
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Sep 10, 2008 - 02:44pm PT
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You are doing a huge disservice to those who lost their lives in the attacks of September 11th by naming your thread 'Remembering 9-11-01.." and proceeding to link people to that website.
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 10, 2008 - 04:10pm PT
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Actually getting to the TRUTH of 9-11 is the greatest Rememberance and Honor that we could ever bestoy to all those who lost there lives on 9-11, and their surviving families.
Their lives cry out from the grave not to ever forget them, and to solve this tragic murder for once and for all. It is not solved. Far from it. Reinvestigate 9-11.
And then once known, to seek righteous justice against the true perpetrators of this hideous crime (I personally would leave that to GOD - since I don't believe in the death penalty. I believe only GOD can judge). But we can certainly lock them away forever, and lose the keys.
Sadly, I don't think most Americans want to know, because they know in their hearts they won't like the answer, and then they will be forced to face their worst nightmare and realization - MIHOP.
EDIT: Facing the truth requires courage. But hey, we're climbers. We have lots of courage. We should be able to face this.
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Chaz
Trad climber
So. Cal.
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Sep 10, 2008 - 04:13pm PT
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That's how Stalin did it.
Jail the opposition. Invent a reason, if you have to.
And some try to say the Democrats are Socialists.
Try Stalinists.
It's an Election Year. Go ahead, run on that.
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WoodySt
Trad climber
Riverside
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Sep 10, 2008 - 04:18pm PT
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Klimmer needs serious medical/psychological help.
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Binks
Social climber
i am of the universe and you know what it's worth.
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Sep 10, 2008 - 04:19pm PT
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This stuff really gets the right wing ST apologists all in a pucker. Instead they get all upset about a few protesters at the RNC liefest.
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GDavis
Trad climber
SoCal
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Sep 10, 2008 - 04:27pm PT
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Do people still believe those college kids about 9/11 being planned by the government? Boggles my mind.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Sep 10, 2008 - 04:35pm PT
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Russ, Chaz, Woody, Blue, you all say Klimmer's post is full of BS.
Care to take on any one of his points and show us why it's BS?
Cut the name calling and get to some facts, if you dare.
Do people still believe those college kids about 9/11 being planned by the government?
News, it ain't just college kids. And nobody's saying "It's the Gov't." Instead, we're saying "Let's take an honest look at the facts."
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Chaz
Trad climber
So. Cal.
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Sep 10, 2008 - 04:49pm PT
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Prosecution has failed to make it's case.
No rebuttal necessary.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Sep 10, 2008 - 04:50pm PT
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Everyone knows it was the jooos!
Hell, they were probably behing Pearl Harbor too, the j0oos had a big stake in the Big Nasty.
When will you fools be satisfied?
Answer: Never (unless it came be pinned on a right-winger or a Jew...or both).
Mmwaahh!!!
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Sep 10, 2008 - 05:06pm PT
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Chaz, what prosecution? I never heard this went to court.
But I didn't think you could refute any of the 26 points...
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stevep
Boulder climber
Salt Lake, UT
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Sep 10, 2008 - 05:07pm PT
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How about try this link Klimmer -- it's a lot more fact-based:
http://wtc.nist.gov/
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Chaz
Trad climber
So. Cal.
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Sep 10, 2008 - 05:11pm PT
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"Chaz, what prosecution?"
You.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Sep 10, 2008 - 05:15pm PT
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Chaz, still afraid to talk about the article in the OP? Why?
Cut the name calling and get to some facts, if you dare.
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Chaz
Trad climber
So. Cal.
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Sep 10, 2008 - 05:27pm PT
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K-man,
If I told you that Spacemen From Mars came down and killed all my avocados, it wouldn't be up to you to prove it didn't happen.
Sorry, but the burden of proof's on you, and you can't make your case convincingly enough to be taken seriously.
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atchafalaya
climber
Babylon
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Sep 10, 2008 - 05:33pm PT
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Anyone seen pictures of the jet hitting the pentagon yet?
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GDavis
Trad climber
SoCal
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Sep 10, 2008 - 05:34pm PT
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Wes, I gotta agree. While I may not agree with many others, I can understand where they are coming from and why they think certain things. It makes sense to me why some argue against gay marriage or have issues with the current administration. That is logical.
Illogical is refusing to believe the numerous point-by-point rebuttals and simple facts. Wes, when you show me facts on issues regarding scientific research or studies, I take them to heart. As long as you have an unbiased source, facts are something we can all sink our teeth into.
Creepy music with weird camera angles and slo-mo's of planes flying by buildings claiming there weren't any windows... well... I'll need more than that.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Sep 10, 2008 - 05:38pm PT
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but the burden of proof's on you
Still afraid to address the article in the OP, I see. I guess you cannot refute any of the FACTS that are put forth in that article.
For example, domestic spying started before 9/11/01. Or that the case for the Iraq war was fabricated, or that plans for the Iraq war were made before 9/11, and so on.
But, why argue with a wall...
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sandstone conglomerate
climber
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Sep 10, 2008 - 05:42pm PT
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why exactly did we go to war with Iraq? Weapons of mass destruction? was that it? oh yeah, saddam was a bad dude. that mustache and sh#t..kinda reminded one of a sun-tanned Hitler.
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dogtown
climber
Where I once was,I think?
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Sep 10, 2008 - 05:43pm PT
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Ho hum.
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Chaz
Trad climber
So. Cal.
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Sep 10, 2008 - 05:45pm PT
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I've read at least 100 articles linked by posters on here on this subject, probably more, and you're telling me THIS ONE's the the one that will change my mind?
Really.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Sep 10, 2008 - 05:46pm PT
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Innocent questions that could use answers:
1) Why did Bush have to be forced to fund the 9/11 Commission?
2) Why did Bush refuse to testify under oath about 9/11?
3) Why couldn't Bush's testimony on 9/11 be taped, recorded, or in any way preserved?
4) Why did the questions have to be pre-screened?
5) Do you think Bush has something to hide WRT 9/11?
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Chaz
Trad climber
So. Cal.
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Sep 10, 2008 - 05:50pm PT
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How 'bout YOU answering them for us.
You're doing a piss-poor job of convincing me to see things your way, and I'm giving you a chance.
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 10, 2008 - 05:55pm PT
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It is true. 9-11 has not been thoroughly investigated. Any attempt to really trully investigate it just gets shot down. I wonder why?
Even looking at, or attempting to look at, or to study foresically any debrie from 9-11 from a non-biased, non-government, non-partisan investigative international team point of view just gets shot down by our government. What is there to hide? Hey, if it trully was Arabs with box-cutter knives and jet fuel that brought it all down, then the electron microprobe or microscopic forensic study will show that, even at this late stage in the cover-up, 7 years later.
Our government is supposed to have an incredible amount of footage from many cameras focused on the Pentagon, from many perspectives that shows the airline going into the building. We have seen none of it. And don't tell me about the one video that looks like a small aircraft or missile that is leaving a smoking trail flying into the Pentagon that they have released. That just proves our point. It wasn't a jet airliner. Show us all the footage. Prove it.
The 9-11 Commission Report has been rightfully called "The 9-11 Ommission Report." The entire event has not ever been rightfully investigated completely, just white-washed only. What is there to hide?
Spectacular coincedences happened on 9-11-01, over and over and over again, and the laws of physics were suspended. The OCT does not match the evidence that is known at this time.
That my friend means that hypothesis and/or theory is busted. That is how the scientific method works. The moment your hypothesis is invalidated then it is done. Time for a new one. Well, apparently the government hasn't gotten the memo. Much of the OCT has been invalidated with known public evidence. So why are they still hanging on to it?
The CTs of 9-11 actually tie the known evidence together better without invalidations. Is it perfect? No. But when you have a government hiding the evidence and not letting it all be studied in the full day light of science, what can you do?
Read any 9-11 book by Dr. David Ray Griffin. He gets it so simply and logically. He can blow the OCT out of the water without really trying.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Sep 10, 2008 - 06:14pm PT
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Chaz, I'll answer the questions: I think that Bush has something to cover up, plain and simple.
Otherwise he would not need to hide.
Now the burden of proof is on you--prove me wrong.
Another question: Why did Bush pardon Libby when he was convicted on perjury charges in relation to the Plame case?
My answer: Cover up.
Prove me wrong.
OK Chaz, do something besides side-step.
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Chaz
Trad climber
So. Cal.
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Sep 10, 2008 - 06:23pm PT
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"Chaz, I'll answer the questions: I think that Bush has something to cover up, plain and simple.
Otherwise he would not need to hide."
And you wonder why the Defense rests without having to call any witnesses.
I thought you would do better than that, seriously.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Sep 10, 2008 - 06:47pm PT
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Hmm, defense rests without calling presenting a case.
We know Bush lied, what more do I need to present?
I say I won this one.
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Chaz
Trad climber
So. Cal.
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Sep 10, 2008 - 06:54pm PT
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You should have quit earlier, K-man.
Your case gets weaker with every post!
I mean, you started off like a house on fire. And now we're left with *the President lied*.
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Flashlight
climber
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Sep 10, 2008 - 07:21pm PT
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That's right, if we don't buy that psychodribble then we are not "thinking"...typical lunacy from the left.
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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Sep 10, 2008 - 07:27pm PT
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I mean, you started off like a house on fire. And now we're left with *the President lied*.
For some folks, the president lying is an offense. And, when it's in direct conflict with the constitution, it's an impeachable offense.
Some folks think that *is* something.
On the other side of the coin, you've offered.... [nothing]
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sandstone conglomerate
climber
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Sep 10, 2008 - 07:54pm PT
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damn i miss the 80's..bad hair styles, stupid looking cars, shitty music. breakfast club was alright, though. i miss ronald reagan the most.
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Binks
Social climber
i am of the universe and you know what it's worth.
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Sep 10, 2008 - 07:57pm PT
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Actually, I remember 9-11 as the day the USA lost all perspective.
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sandstone conglomerate
climber
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Sep 10, 2008 - 08:09pm PT
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Well, Bush did increase the executive branch of power about tenfold, i'd say. that there's a point i'd say would be hard to argue.
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GDavis
Trad climber
SoCal
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Sep 10, 2008 - 11:39pm PT
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I just voted to impeach bush with 5 fake addresses and names.
LETS GET 2MILLION!
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Sep 10, 2008 - 11:41pm PT
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Bush lied, people died!!!
Ahhhhahhggghhhhh!!!!
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Sep 10, 2008 - 11:46pm PT
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I just voted to impeach bush with 5 fake addresses and names.
LETS GET 2MILLION!
And if we follow your example
1.6 million of them
FRAUDULENT!
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Russ Walling
Social climber
Nutsonthechin, Wisconsin
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Sep 11, 2008 - 12:53am PT
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David Ray Griffin, author of Karls link, is a known nutcase. He is the king of wacko conspiracy theories on the 9/11 event. Got anyone sane that can present a case?
Side note: if Bush is such a rube, and so fukking dumb, (according to the jobless, drug addled, van living, broadband poaching geniuses on the Taco) how did he pull this 9/11 thing off? It seems a bit more complicated than pulling a beer run at the local Stop and Shop, which according to this forum, would be a high water mark for Bush.
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Sep 11, 2008 - 01:13am PT
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"Never engage in a battle of wits with an unarmed man."
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Sep 11, 2008 - 01:17am PT
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Here's an interesting thought, and while I have not heard it elsewhere, I'm sure it's not original:
What's the difference of pre-9/11 Iraq War planning and then using 9/11 as an excuse for Bush/Cheney and cohorts to push their agenda, not only in Iraq but elsewhere (including the US)...
and
... Putin pre-planning an invasion of Georgia and then goading that idiot Saakashvili into a stupid attack and then rolling in Ruskie tanks and troops (and jets) in a clearly planned manoeuvre?
Not much difference that I can see. Putin and Cheney are cut from the same cloth (though I suspect Putin is a bit cleverer). Bush? He’s just a puppet.
They all need to be chucked in prison, or on a chain gang.
And what’s the difference of American missiles on Russia’s doorstep in Poland, and Russian missiles on America’s doorstep in Cuba?
Not much difference if you look at both sides of the story.
More on this later when I have time to ponder, as I am in the middle of production for the next issue of the magazine and it’s early in the morning (and I’m heading for a late Alpine start).
Hey, I might even start a thread on the subject (aaarrrgghhh, teeth grinding).
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Double D
climber
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Sep 11, 2008 - 10:46am PT
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Weak (the original article that is)... I'm sure glad our forefathers weren't taken to such weakness in the WWII era.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Sep 11, 2008 - 11:17am PT
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I can't imagine anything that illustrates the tragedy of faction more than this thread. After reading all 60 of the responses, all I see is exageration, hyperbole, and vitriol toward those with the temerity to disagree with us.
Shame on us! We had a tragedy that should have united our country, and did, briefly. Unfortunately, some people decided that the result of that unity was that their faction would not increase the way they wanted, so they put faction ahead of the good of the country.
I expected from the title of this thread to see something unifying. Instead, I get something factious, and undeniable only to those with one particular partisan perspective. I find this demeaning to the memory of those killed in these attacks, and unedifying for the rest of us.
John
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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Sep 11, 2008 - 11:37am PT
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the saddest thing about 9/11 is that it could have been prevented.
Incompetence and stupidity allowed 9/11 as much as anything else.
A laptop could have been seized, permission was asked to seize it, and was denied.
The relevant details for 9/11 were on this laptop.
In addition, two al quaida operatives involved in 9/11 were followed to a high level meeting in pakistan, then they were 'lost' when they left.
This is not left wingnut conspiracy theory, it is fact. You can look it up.
And yes, what Bush did after 9/11, instead of rooting out incompetence and demanding good work, was to grant himself the powers of a 16th century king, and allow the US to torture-- All of which did nothing but make it almost impossible to prosecute offenders effectively, as even the military tribunals don't like to deal with evidence tainted by torture.
If you don't believe that, look at the roaring successes from the few trials held so far.
Yes 9/11 was horrible, but the Bush Cheney war criminals made a mockery of everything America stands for, and shamed the memory of those who died in the tragedy AND in the stupid war for no reason in Iraq, while they let Al Qaida get away with a half done job in Afghanistan.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Sep 11, 2008 - 11:49am PT
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You should check your history, Dirt. Bush has not granted himself anything. Lincoln, among other things, suspended the writ of habeus corpus during the Civil War. Had Bush done so (remember, he has that right constitutionally as president), all of the federal court challenges to his actions could not have happened. Wilson had truly extraordinary powers, including some amzing powers to stifle dissent, during World War I. The Roosevelt administration virtually ran the entire country -- including the media -- during World War II.
Sorry, but this partisan ranting needs to end, at least for today. Neither side will convince the other, so enough, already!
John
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Patrick Sawyer
climber
Originally California now Ireland
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Sep 11, 2008 - 05:30pm PT
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Good one, K-man.
If this had happened on Clinton's watch (or if Gore had rightly been elected and it happened on his watch) just think of the furore of the right twits on this forum. But it happened on their man's watch (with a bit of complicity perhaps? who knows), so of course Bush/Cheney are blameless.
Jeez, I could wipe my ass with that one like Shrek did with the fairytale book.
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 11, 2008 - 06:52pm PT
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Today in class we teachers were requested to show a program to our students that was broadcasted over the entire campus on TV to honor and remember all those who lost their lives on 9-11-01, 7 years ago.
It was sponsored by our HS's JROTC, with a soundtrack by U2.
So I played it on time for my 2nd period physics class. I couldn't help but think that it was just like the program shown at the RNC parade (although I didn't see that, but heard plenty about it from KO on MSNBC), with all the tragic images and footage of the airliners slamming into the WTC towers over and over again and showing all the grief and dispare on everyone's faces who were there.
I could feel myself getting pretty moved and upset again but not for the reasons "they" wanted. Their message was loud and clear. BE VERY SCARED AND NEVER FORGET. All I could think was BS. I don't buy it for a moment.
This is what 9-11 is to the GOP. It is not about remembering the innocent lives lost and the fact that we don't have the full picture, nor a full accounting yet about what really happened on 9-11. It is not about how our nation turned to the dark side on that fateful day, to diminish and perhaps never to return to our Constitution or Bill of Rights ever again. To them 9-11 is a tool to control the masses. And they will use it over and over again, and do so any moment they can, but especially every 9-11 anniversary.
I'm pissed at these monsters who propigate these lies. Why did I put my students through this crap? Why? Most of them know it didn't go down the way the US government says it went down ---the OCT. The students told me so. Wow, from the mouths of babes. I just smiled inside and left it at that.
No, I do not ever talk about any of this crap with my students. Too dangerous politically and too much of a lightning rod and too emotional. I don't have to. They get it already.
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JEleazarian
Trad climber
Fresno CA
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Sep 11, 2008 - 08:21pm PT
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K-man, your example does not contradict what I said. The president exercising executive authority is not a grant of anything new. From what I see on this thread, the majority of ST-ers, who hate Bush, will believe that he aggrandized his powers. I and the thoughtful minority here believe that he has done nothing unprecedented, nor even as extreme as many of his predecessors. I will agree to disagree with you, but I don't think my comments on this thread are helpful further. They're simply repetitive, so I'll sign off in that regard.
John
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Sep 11, 2008 - 09:41pm PT
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Russ wrote
"David Ray Griffin, author of Karls link, is a known nutcase. He is the king of wacko conspiracy theories on the 9/11 event. Got anyone sane that can present a case?"
Prove it. The article contains lots of references to the FBI's own admissions. Did he make those up? The article contains food for thought. Take it for that.
Griffin wrote a detailed, documented and referenced book that calls out the falsehoods and ommisions of the 9-11 report. Even the Bush appointed chairmen of the 9-11 commission admit that they omitted things based on politics.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Ray_Griffin
I don't know what happened but I do know that 9-11 was falsely used to justify an attack on Iraq and that cost more in lives and money than 9-11. That's bad enough,.
Peace
Karl
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Sep 11, 2008 - 10:27pm PT
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wes, you make some silly arguements for a seemingly somewhat bright young man.
The eye that alters.....
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BadInfluence
Mountain climber
Dak side
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Sep 12, 2008 - 08:34am PT
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hey Roxdipshit who gives a sh#t about Iraq. 9-11 is a whole differnet topic and what happened that day.
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raymond phule
climber
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Sep 12, 2008 - 08:36am PT
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" And the largest lie is that IRaq had anything toi do with 9-11."
This is kind of interesting from a european perspective.
I dont remember any information that suggested that Irak was behind 9/11. I would say that most people here didn't believe at any time that Irak was behind 9/11 in any way. The reason for the war in the media was WMD's and that Saddam was bad.
Then after a while (several years after 9/11) you could hear about statistics from the US that showed that 70 % or something believed that Irak was behind 9/11 . I was surprised because I thought everyone knowed that wasn't the case and that nothing at all suggested that it was the case.
I believe the 9/11 Irak connection was retoric and propaganda that was only used in the US and not in the rest of the world.
The trial against Saddam could never have been about 9/11 because there never was anyting suggesting it. It could have been about a lot of either stuff though but the US et all was cleaver enough to start with a trial about a case with no connection to the US et all.
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BadInfluence
Mountain climber
Dak side
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Sep 12, 2008 - 09:40am PT
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Roxdipsh#t, there is NO permentation between Bush being an Idiot like yourself and the terriost attack on 9-11. you should move to another country. you're just another internet ass that spews worthless crap.
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 12, 2008 - 10:27am PT
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Has anyone ever noticed how those who support the GOP, Bush/Cheney, the Neocons, the 9-11 OCT, can't ever have a civil conversation or debate and argue the facts without resorting to immature name calling?
I don't think it is possible for them to do so.
THAT IN ITSELF SPEAKS VOLUMES. And it is the very same tactic they use publically when debating other politicians from any party.
(Yes, I can see it now there they go to search if I have called anyone a name here on ST. If I have I apologize. I try never to do so.)
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BadInfluence
Mountain climber
Dak side
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Sep 12, 2008 - 11:24am PT
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no Klimmer it's the disrespect that you utter out that leads to the name calling. With this disrespect that you display deserves much more than name calling and this is Not a immature adlocent tatic. Maybe a beating of some sense into you would be a better tatic. Then you might get how some people feel about 9-11 being a very sad day. and not your "i feel this way and Bush did this" crying crap. you can email me and if you want we can meet up and then I would love for you to spew sh#t straight to my face.
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Binks
Social climber
i am of the universe and you know what it's worth.
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Sep 12, 2008 - 11:35am PT
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(according to the jobless, drug addled, van living, broadband poaching geniuses on the Taco)
Hey Russ, aren't you just describing your own previous existence?
Half of us on here are scientists and engineers who climb on the side. We're pretty used to logical discussion and building stuff that actually works on a daily basis.
I respect your position in the climbing community but your politics are about knee-jerk as they come.
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BadInfluence
Mountain climber
Dak side
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Sep 12, 2008 - 11:36am PT
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also klimmer you said "I went to there" referring to the site of 9-11. WTF did you do? nothing! just went there. When for days, weeks and months after 9-11 there where people driving from Oklahoma, California, Texas with Truck loads and trailer loads of supplies for the volunteers helping in aid for rescue and clean up at 9-11. But No you were to busy sitting on your ass I bet. yet people lined the streets showing support for the volunteers and workers with every passing car, truck the crowd cheered. PEOPLE with No skills what so ever showed up to see if it was possible in anyway to help. being it was carrying of box filled with eyedrops, or serving food. Klimmer you really are insignificant tool in this society
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 12, 2008 - 12:15pm PT
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BadInfluence,
No I did not go to ground zero, that is not what I was referring to . . .
Read it again in context.
Also try not to threaten. That is very unbecoming. Perhaps I should have mentioned "they" also like to threaten as well as name call. Last time I faced crap like this was in grade school. Come on grow-up.
Edit:
By the way, there is a major difference in supporting those who helped recover, give aid, searched through the rubble of the 9-11 aftermath. I have complete respect and care and empathy for all those who lost their lives to this hideous crime, and for those who helped out afterwards, and who are now losing their lives due to toxic illnesses. This arguement is not about them. My full respect and love goes out to them completely.
This arguement is about who truly pulled off this hideous crime. It wasn't Arabs with boxcutter knives. They were only patsies to the real criminals. It is the way they work, time and time again. Create a simple patsie to have someone to immediatley blame for the crime, even though the evidence screams it was someone else or something much more sinister. That is how you do false-flag operations.
We have a secret internal government within our government and it doesn't matter what administration comes or goes. They have done many aweful, illegal, and hideous crimes and all in our names. There is just too much evidence for this. They have their own agenda and it is full of corruption, greed, control and power. President Eisenhower warned us about the "military industrial complex" and everything he warned us about has come true. Read and study up on the USS Liberty, Operation Northwoods, Gulf of Tonkin, 9-11, the anthrax attacks. These are all false-flag ops for a specific agenda and purpose. And these are just the ones we can easily find loads of information on. How much have they done that we know nothing about? I can't imagine.
If you think that this is all just wacked out conspiracy then you have your head in the sand with your fingers in your ears. There is just too much overwhelming evidence for this. But you will never know if you never want to know, and that is just fine by them. They count on human ignorance. People do talk at times who are in the know, and they lose their lives for it. They have absolutely no care for life. If you think people can't keep secrets then you don't know your history.
Operation Paperclip, Manhatton project, etc., etc. My grand father didn't talk about what he did in WW2 until his 50 year oath of secrecy was up, then he talked all he could about it with us in the mid to late 90's, before he passed away. He was an officer in the Navy stationed in Washington DC. He was in intelligence and decoded Russian (Soviet Union) messages sent during the war.
Our government is very good at keeping things and people compartmentalized. Rarely does anyone know the big picture. But those who do know, know how it all perpetuates. Sometimes they even let the cat out of the bag accidently, just as Bush1 let loose when he was President and often talked about a "New World Order (NWO)." This is absolutely real and they are driving toward it full steam, and they do not care who gets in their way. Life means nothing to them.
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WoodySt
Trad climber
Riverside
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Sep 12, 2008 - 12:30pm PT
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Just read the book published by "Popular Mechanics"; but, of course, you won't, or, if you do, you'll reject it because they're in on it too.
I've come to the conclusion that the "Truthers" fall into different sets. One set falls for most such nonsense because of genetics. Another set suffers from BDS and will support this rubbish even though they don't really believe it. Another is simply nuts in most aspects of their lives. There are those that are significantly devoid of any meaning in their lives, and this gives them an anchor of stability. Lastly come the ill educated devoid of any serious critical thinking skills that result in them being sucked into belief in nonsense like this.
I've now read three books on the issue: "Popular Mechanics", "The Looming Tower" and the third I can't remember off hand. Nothing in these books leads me to accept even an iota of the Truther's nonsense.
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BadInfluence
Mountain climber
Dak side
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Sep 12, 2008 - 12:31pm PT
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klimmer belive me i have not threaten yet when i do you will feel it. you and your fed up thoughts are the what is wrong the USA today. from the sounds of it you had to be in the lower percent of your graduating class.
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atchafalaya
climber
Babylon
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Sep 12, 2008 - 12:54pm PT
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Mountain Man, congrats on getting out of custody.
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Russ Walling
Social climber
Nutsonthechin, Wisconsin
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Sep 12, 2008 - 01:57pm PT
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Binks writes: (according to the jobless, drug addled, van living, broadband poaching geniuses on the Taco)
Hey Russ, aren't you just describing your own previous existence?
Actually Binks, no. Don't believe the hype.
upthread read edit: Klimmer is a teacher! OMG!!!!1111
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BadInfluence
Mountain climber
Dak side
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Sep 12, 2008 - 02:31pm PT
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klimmer everyone knew about the Manhattan project it was a big race who could split atoms first. well if you have so much respect for the victims etcc..why are disrespecting the memorial of 9-11?
coz great you were there. so i was I but I didn't run to central park. I went to help others. aren't you the guy who rapped bolted half dome if not sounds like you would
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Sep 12, 2008 - 02:48pm PT
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It was me. I called you a pussy.
(Just kidding how ya doing Coz long time no see. You prolly wouldn't remember me but we hung out in Josh and the Valley a number of times in 2000/2001.)
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WoodySt
Trad climber
Riverside
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Sep 12, 2008 - 02:51pm PT
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My last post on this nonsense: trying to reach theses loons is like trying to teach chimps long division; they don't have the equipment upstairs.
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 12, 2008 - 02:59pm PT
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Russ,
Yes, I'm a science teacher. I have an open mind. I look at all sides. I'm not afraid to have my reality challenged. I also do science research. I do research in meteoritics. I let the evidence lead to discoveries and conclusions. It has to be repeatable and testable.
However, when you have those who would block research in open and "full daylight" then they have something to hide. The same can be said about 9-11. They (the gov) are stonewalling and they don't want anyone to look under any 9-11 rocks, metaphorically speaking.
In science, the worst sin a scientist can commit is to falsify his or her results. The same can be said of any government. The worse sin is to lie and not let the citizens of the world in, too verify what you say is the truth. All must be open to verification and scrutiny in full open public daylight.
Well, here we stand at an impass.
Let 9-11 be investigated in full complete daylight with an international commission. It has not yet been done so. The 9-11 Commission Report was an Ommission Report (a white-wash with a pre-conceived conclusion --- which is another grave sin in science.) What is there to hide? The evidence will prove the OCT right or wrong.
(Hint, the known evidence at this time already falsifies the OCT, so I'm not surprised by their stonewalling. Nor at this point am I surprised at their corruption.)
But I hate their corruption and greed, do you?
Edit:
BadInfluence,
I repeat I was not there. Please read more carefully.
I'm done with this thread. I just hope it makes more people think, and it helps more people crawl out from under a rock and we can work to elect those who will turn our country around, because we are headed off the cliff in a serious way. And once we completely go off the cliff there is no going back. I do not want 4 more years of McBush or McSame. I don't really want a day more. Nov. 4th will tell. I'm very pessimistic though. They have to cheat to win, and I believe they will do it again.
I want my country back. I want the Constitution and Bill of Rights fully restored. I blame anyone who has voted for this corrupt Neocon administration for the woes we are facing and have been facing for nearly 8 years now. Can you imagine? It only took 8 years to get the US to be like the 1930's in Nazi Germany.
The blame falls completely on you.
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 12, 2008 - 03:35pm PT
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WesChrist,
Apparently I can't shut-up. But this will be my last post on this. Promise.
I agree with you, but don't forget about PNAC. They clearly said, for it to go the way they wanted it to go and had planned for, when they got into power they needed "A New Pearl Harbor."
And we know 9-11 was their New Pearl Harbor. They had all the plans already written for many years prior. How did they come out with the Patriot Act so damn fast, after 9-11? It was already written and ready to go.
9-11 gave them everything they ever wanted and needed in soooo many ways. They could not leave this to chance. Yes, they needed patsies and they put them on board the jets to kill them, but it had to go down like clock work on their watch. Nothing was left to chance. It only had to be perceived that way, and that they (Al CIA-duh terrorists) got way "lucky." And don't forget all the military games that were orchestrated and occured on that very day, 9-11-01. What a better cover could there be?
MIHOP
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Russ Walling
Social climber
Nutsonthechin, Wisconsin
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Sep 12, 2008 - 03:58pm PT
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Fukkin A Klimmer... I'm all for an open mind, but having a reality filter on the front door of that mind will keep you out of a padded cell.
I too have now officially retired from this thread. You guys are nuts.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Sep 12, 2008 - 09:17pm PT
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Jingy
Social climber
Flatland, Ca
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Sep 12, 2008 - 10:16pm PT
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Regardless of whether the "facts" are 100% true and correct...
I don't think we need to be political analysis experts or rocket scientists to figure out that the Bush/Chaney administration has run rampant over the American people since getting into office.
I've seen a photo of Bush and Bin Laden as youth.
Bush Sr had the idea of getting Saddam since he became prez, little Bush just completed the task with Bin Laden's help
Chaney was on the board of Halliburton and I believe they made plenty of money because of all the contracts they won.
Bush is a complete idiot.
Chaney shot his best friend in the face.
We went to war and years later the price of oil is what... Is it double what it was?
And notice how things are simmering down. The "liberal media" (because that's what the right wing calls it) is not talking about all the fighting in Iraq any more, and the new "enemy" is Iran. How many times are we going to relive 1984? How often do you have to change the subject before everyone figures out you're stealing their wallets.... from right in front of them?
Call me what you want. I see what I see (limited as that may be). You see what you see (you're knowledge far outweighs mine because you are all knowing) Tell me you feel better about the country.
I feel betrayed, let down, and a bit angry about the last 8 years. I keep thinking that the American public will do something, but the laws written by the people in power make it impossible to do anything. It seems as though once someone is elected president they can do anything with no worries of ever having to suffer the consequences. And the American public will anxiously await the next so called "president of change", since they all talk about change before they get elected, but completely forget all about it once in office.
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 12, 2008 - 10:46pm PT
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This interview just took place with David Ray Griffin.
I would like to leave this discussion with Dr. Griffin's words. Excellent interview. Get to the interview and listen. Ray is very clear and concise. Man, now I have more books to read . . .
http://www.blackopradio.com/black391a.ram
Many other countries are involved with the 9-11 truth movement and getting to the bottom of this: Italy, Japan, and Russia to name a few. I didn't realize this before. Who knows? Maybe we will get to the bottom of all of this and one day know the full truth.
I hope.
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Klimmer
Mountain climber
San Diego
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 15, 2008 - 08:29am PT
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Here is the film made in Italy but done in English that has been shown in Russia on primetime TV on 9-12 or 9-13-08. Approximately 20 million in Russia have seen it. As I said above in the other post, 9-11 truth is going global. Why can't this be shown in the US on primetime? What's there to hide? Is this not America? Do we not have freedom of speech? Maybe we don't anymore.
This is a 9-11 Truth film I had never seen before, and it has the latest information. I learned many new facts I didn't know.
ZERO : An Investigation Into 9/11 - PART 1 of 10
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D3kBn1usddI&feature=related
from there you can link the other 9 out of 10.
This one is for fun:
Jesse Ventura “Body Slams” 9-11 debunkers for 30 minutes:
http://thestateoftruth.com/2008/09/jesse-ventura-body-slams-911-conspiracy-debunkers-for-30-minutes/
This is a great way to end this thread. I hope some of you come to your senses and wake-up before it is too late.
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WoodySt
Trad climber
Riverside
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Sep 15, 2008 - 11:42am PT
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I've come to my senses Klimmer; someone call the nurse and take Klimmer back to his room.
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WBraun
climber
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Sep 15, 2008 - 11:50am PT
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While drooling in the far corner, Woody reads Popular Mechanics, as the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
Typical .........
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Chaz
Trad climber
So. Cal.
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Sep 15, 2008 - 12:03pm PT
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You're right, Werner.
Popular Mechanics knows nothing.
YouTube, now THAT's where the real credibility is.
There's no bullshit on YouTube, is there Werner?
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Chaz
Trad climber
So. Cal.
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Sep 15, 2008 - 12:45pm PT
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Therefore what?
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Batrock
Trad climber
Burbank
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Sep 15, 2008 - 01:19pm PT
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Twice last year I checked my cell reception while flying. The first while flying into Honolulu and the second while flying into Vancouver. I had reception both times.
The planes involved in 9-11 did not stay at a cruising altitude. They dropped to lower altitudes fairly quickly.
While I have never made a call during a flight I have heard several people around me making calls on cell phones several minutes before landing.
Saying that it is impossible to make a cell call from a plane is pure BS. I have also made calls from the summit of 14k peaks. What is the difference in making a call from 14k on a plane and 14 k on a mountain?
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philo
Trad climber
boulder, co.
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Sep 15, 2008 - 02:29pm PT
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Russ, Chaz, et al;
How can you watch any of the excellent links that Klimmer has posted and not realize the width and depth of the lies your government has foisted upon you?
Oh that's right you won't listen or read anything the conflicts with the fairy tail you cling to.
You and your ilk are the true anti-patriots in our midst.
Popular Mechanics? Please spare me the ludicrous excuse for competency. There is NO ONE on the staff of PM that has anywhere near the expertise and crediblity of the experts in those links. Ask yourself who owns Popular Mechanics, then find out how utterly discredited that report has been.
I can only imagine that you all were hiding in your basements with two years of stock piled food and water and duct taped windows during the Y2K frenzy.
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