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MH2
climber
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Mar 17, 2009 - 01:45pm PT
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My opinion: omitting stories could be a reasonable caution but it doesn't seem like too much attention to use full names or photos.
(Unless you're stealing their souls.)
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Mar 17, 2009 - 08:20pm PT
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Sorry - No way to go back and change the posts now, and apart from someone who confused the two Dave Ls (Loeks and Lane), no one mentioned this earlier. I believe I mentioned my policy on this in the first or an early post, and no one said anything.
The projected history of the first 50 years of climbing at Squamish (1957 - ) will naturally use full names, but would be very different in nature than the stories here.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Mar 17, 2009 - 09:32pm PT
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My gosh!
I have a lot of reading to catch up on here...
Have I missed any cartoons?
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Mar 18, 2009 - 01:16am PT
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Tar may have missed some cartoons - the "43-Man Squamish". I don't remember when he last dropped by for a look-see.
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AP
Trad climber
Calgary
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Mar 18, 2009 - 10:20am PT
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Tami, Ghost: you are right about Dave Dornian. His writing is great, he manages to put inflated egos in their places, and has a healthy disrespect for the eccentricities of the climbing world. Maybe I will scan some juicy bits from the CMC World News and post them up here (but only if you promise some cartoons).
One of Dave's finest moments was when Jeff Lowe came to Calgary for a slide show. Dave put an advertisement in the World News offering 1 years free membership to the first person to ask Jeff what was the highest altitude he and Catherine Destiville had sex at.
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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Mar 19, 2009 - 06:25pm PT
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"Bottom line is if people demand more climbing sh#t, they'll bump it."
bump
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Mar 19, 2009 - 07:47pm PT
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So as to divert from a discussion about Jello's personal life, we could talk about grading. At the Little Smoke Bluffs, anyway. Climbs at Squamish were badly undergraded under the TDS until the early 1970s - something discussed far upthread. Although people like Jim Baldwin and Hamish Mutch had been to the Valley by 1962 or 1963, and had a pretty good idea as to relative standards, the application led to routes like Snake being graded 5.6 in the 1967 guide (now 5.9), and the left side of Yosemite Pinnacle being graded 5.8 (now solid 5.10 wide).
Many say that climbs in the Bluffs are overgraded. It may be more that the climbs there tend to be relatively short, and in an often comfortable environment. The cruxes are often not long, climbs and protection can be assessed from the ground (originally on rappel, of course), and many routes are not sustained. The result is that climbs in the Bluffs are often of the advertised technical difficulty, but aren't as serious, sustained or strenuous as those elsewhere at Squamish.
Some suggest that grades at Squamish generally are soft, but as with so many areas, they seem internally consistent. Those in the Bluffs are simply different in nature - as those who are fine on moderate 5.10 there find when they try the Split Pillar.
In a somewhat similar vein, many "5.9" routes put up in Yosemite in the 1960s are famously strenuous and sustained, and comparable routes are now more likely to be graded 5.10. The TDS/YDS supposedly graded based on the hardest move, ignoring other factors. Perhaps less so now than formerly, in many areas.
However, the grades at Skaha really may be soft....
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MH2
climber
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Mar 19, 2009 - 08:01pm PT
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the grades at Skaha really may be soft....
Are apples softer than oranges?
At Squamish in the 1970s it is likely that climbs were given onsight difficulty grades, as is proper if you do not allow up to 2 years of repeated efforts to get up a pitch. At Skaha it may only be that climbs are graded according to redpoint difficulty.
However, as a Skaha onsight A Step Beyond seemed to be about right, grade and name-wise.
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MisterE
Trad climber
One Place or Another
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Mar 20, 2009 - 12:30am PT
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Friends from the North bump!
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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Mar 20, 2009 - 01:28am PT
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Maybe I will scan some juicy bits from the CMC World News and post them up here (but only if you promise some cartoons).
Okay, I promise some cartoons. (I've got a scanner and tons of Tami's work)
So get that CMCWN stuff up. You could start a Calgary Humor thread or something. (I've actually got plenty of Dornian's old stuff too)
D
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Mar 20, 2009 - 02:24am PT
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Stories from Calgary et al may fit better on a thread of their own. My tale will gradually wind down over the next while - we're getting fairly close to 1980. The thread might end with that year's guidebook. Still, even with digressions, it has mostly stayed on topic, and I'd like to keep it that way.
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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Mar 20, 2009 - 11:01am PT
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I'm squeamish for Squamish cartoons...
Alas, Tami prolly never poked fun at her compatriots;
'Speshly not cuncernin' any seven-dees godlike great white northern' hardmens.
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Mar 23, 2009 - 12:46am PT
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It was a lovely spring day today, and so a visit to Squamish was in order, if only to see if the Chief was still there, and get a little fresh air and exercise. I planned a short hike up the back, and then some climbing at the Bluffs. In the parking lot, who should I run into but Dave L. (photos and stories thereof somewhere upthread) and his wife Sheila B. So we had a lovely hike and chat together. It was somewhat more adventurous than planned – the upper 1/3 of the Chief still has a fair amount of snow and ice. Almost alpine, in fact. Not that we were prepared for it or anything.
We hiked up to the gap between the first and second ‘peaks’. It is not simple to go directly from the first to the second peak, certainly not without some climbing equipment. If nothing else, there’s a 10 m rappel into the gap (or serious tree climbing), plus some fairly exposed ledge walking. Much to our surprise, someone has installed a ladder at the gap, with rungs bolted into the rock, and a fixed rope.
Here’s Dave trying the ladder, which I predict will lead some tourists into trouble. It wasn’t there last fall, and it will be interesting to find out who/what/why.
The icicles in the vicinity make it a potential mixed climb.
In 1995, just as the Chief was being made a provincial park, B.C. Parks got some grant money. They used it to do some work on the trails on the Chief, a job creation thing. In some places they overdid it, adding unnecessary ladders and chains. However, here’s one that probably is necessary. That section used to involve some quite interesting tree root climbing.
It’s on the way up to the second peak – lots of snow, knee deep or more in places, but also icy in places.
And here’s Dave at the top. In a change from my usual style, there’s a mountain growing out of his head instead of a tree. Mount Garibaldi.
Two of the team on top, lots of snow about.
We went on to the third peak, then descended a different part of the trail. It was rather shocking to see that someone has painted graffiti at the base of the White Cliff, one of the minor cliffs lurking in the forest. Another research project, but it will be removed. There are two graffiti, quite similar.
Otherwise, the thread is slowly winding to a close. I will probably take it up to the 1980 guidebook, and then must turn to other things. But there will be some posts on changes in equipment and technique, what new and old climbers were up to, new routes and areas, photos, and stuff, to tidy it up.
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Climbing dropout
Social climber
Vancouver
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Mar 23, 2009 - 01:09am PT
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Hey Anders, thanks for the phone call.
This is Bruce MacDonald, and I have volunteered to provide Anders with whichever he wants of my photos from the 70's 80's and 90's
So I guess I have a fairly big task of going thru a thousand color slides and getting them scanned. I have a lot of good pictures from climbing with the usual suspects of Squamish in those days, so I am sure this group will enjoy them once I get going on it.
In the meanwhile, a hearty hello to everyone I haven't seen or talked to in the last 13 years !!!
Bravo to Anders for initiating another fine project.
Regards,
Bruce
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Climbing dropout
Social climber
Vancouver
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Mar 23, 2009 - 02:10am PT
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Tami,
Doing well Tami thanks for asking and I trust you are the same, the time frame you are talking about may well exceed 13 years
Bruce
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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This is Bruce MacDonald
Hi Bruce. Twenty years? Bet it's been about that. However long, good to hear from you.
David Harris
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MisterE
Trad climber
One Step Beyond!
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bump
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SteveW
Trad climber
The state of confusion
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bump here too!!!!11111
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Thanks for the bumps, Erik and Steve! I may be able to do some work on this over the next few days. (Raining here.) It would be nice to get the thread finished off, perhaps ending with the 1980 guidebook.
In the meantime, I've been wrestling with things like historiography, partnerships, planning, and the proposed history of the first 50 years of climbing at Squamish.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
Monrovia, CA
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Apr 13, 2009 - 08:55pm PT
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Here ja go Anders...
Ja sure, yu betcha! Lars Cronlund tuning up for the Big Stone.
Trivia note: Lasse led Swedish team and summited Annapurna 2 years later and the Big E a few years after that. See what Squamish does to you!
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