Discussion Topic |
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Topic Author's Original Post - Aug 31, 2008 - 10:08am PT
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The clock radio woke me to some cheery news.
Someone took a hundred footer at Suicide yesterday (Saturday 8/30) with head injuries and an injured belayer.
Anybody know anything more?
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Llama
Big Wall climber
The bubble that is Irvine, CA
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Aug 31, 2008 - 10:20am PT
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Yeah, it was my friends Trevor and Claire. Trevor was unconscious at the time the rescue team arrived and is in critical condition at the moment. I don't think he had a helmet though I'm not 100% sure of that. He is new to climbing, only been out a handful of times, mostly with me. His partner Claire is very experienced; she's been climbing since she was 3 years old and has climbed all over the world. Claire is in stable condition but also suffered numerous injuries. I haven't gotten in touch with her yet to get more details.... I'll post when I do. In the meantime, let's all keep them in our thoughts and prayers.
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esoteric1
Trad climber
san dieco, ca
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Aug 31, 2008 - 10:39am PT
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I hope both of them get out of this without any lasting problems.
they`re both in my prayers.
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WoodySt
Trad climber
Riverside
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Aug 31, 2008 - 11:40am PT
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What route? Details if you have them. Good luck on recovery.
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Social climber
valley center, ca
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Aug 31, 2008 - 12:14pm PT
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Will certainly pray for both. My heart goes out, of course, to all family members and friends that are hurting now for their loved ones. My thoughts and prayers are for them also.
Lynne
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L
climber
Just surfin' the tsunami of life
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Aug 31, 2008 - 01:20pm PT
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Llama,
Really sorry to hear about your friends! Hope everything turns out OK--and please, keep us posted as to how they're doing.
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esoteric1
Trad climber
san dieco, ca
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Aug 31, 2008 - 01:54pm PT
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clark headed up the rescue, I guess the guy is in pretty bad shape, he came off head first and has neck trauma and a bad head wound...broken helmit and everything.
there was no gear on the rope, so from a speculative viewpoint he was either soloing off the anchor above captn hook or he fell off the ledge before he daisy`d in.
there was a bad hail storm up there that day so no helicopter, and had 6 people to carry the liter out to the road to a waiting ambulance.
be careful out there guys!
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Aug 31, 2008 - 02:16pm PT
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God bless 'em, sounds nasty.
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SteveW
Trad climber
The state of confusion
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Aug 31, 2008 - 07:23pm PT
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Best wishes for a good outcome for these folks.
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Llama
Big Wall climber
The bubble that is Irvine, CA
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Aug 31, 2008 - 09:43pm PT
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Thanks for all of your concern! Trevor had just started the second pitch, not sure what route yet. He fell, he said he pulled gear but maybe he was confused about that detail as the rescuers apparently saw none. Their anchor failed and sent both Trevor and Claire to the ground. Trevor broke his neck and was unconscious most of yesterday, came out of it a bit and was heavily sedated until late this afternoon. He has a blood clot on his brain and some swelling but is expected to recover. He is NOT paralyzed. Claire broke her arm and some of the bone structure in her face but has been released from the hospital so no life threatening injuries for her. Trevor is expected to be released within a week so it appears that the doctors are hopeful that there will be no complications with his injuries.
Again I really appreciate all of your thoughts and prayers as do their families. Thanks!!
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dmalloy
Trad climber
eastside
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Aug 31, 2008 - 09:47pm PT
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>>He fell, he said he pulled gear but maybe he was confused about that detail as the rescuers apparently saw none. Their anchor failed and sent both Trevor and Claire to the ground.
I can understand how a failing anchor could be thought of as "pulled gear".
Failed anchor....wwhhhooooooaa. Such a scary thing to contemplate. Sounds like some serious injuries, but it seems like it could have been much worse. Best hopes to them for a fast recovery.
Thanks so much for posting some details.
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Llama
Big Wall climber
The bubble that is Irvine, CA
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I finally got to talk to Claire tonight to get the real story so... here it goes.
The two were on Captain Hook. They had finished the first pitch and had started up the second. Claire was belaying from the ledge atop the first pitch. The anchor consisted of one nut (size unknown) and a #3 BD cam. The anchor was skimpy because Trevor wanted to conserve gear for the next pitch. He began the second pitch of which the first 20 or so feet was unprotectable (at least with the gear they had). After this section, Trevor placed a #1 BD cam and proceeded to climb above it. He complained of some difficulties with the climbing and suddenly pitched off backwards. He came tight to the #1 which he was roughly 5 feet above. The cam pulled and he continued falling backward, now head-first, toward the belay. Claire locked off the rope through her ATC and braced inward against the wall to arrest the fall. Trevor hit Claire causing her to slam into the wall leading to fractures of her cheek bone, arm and wrist. Claire also was knocked unconscious at this point. Trevor continued his fall and as the rope came tight through the anchor, the two pieces failed. Luckily for Claire, she had collapsed onto the ledge when she passed out. Her unconscious state also led to a relaxed grip on the rope. Thus, as Trevor continued falling, Claire remained on the ledge despite the anchor blowing. Had she not been knocked out, she would have certainly kept a tight hold on the brake and undoubtedly would have been pulled off the ledge into a fall with Trevor. Sadly, under these circumstances, there was virtually nothing that would have kept Trevor from decking but Claire somehow escaped the same fate.
Trevor was wearing a helmet and this surely saved his life. As he fell head-first for nearly 120 feet, he hit his head several times and broke his helmet. He also, as mentioned before, broke his neck. He'll be in a brace to immobilize his neck for 3 months. The doctors are surprised, however, at how quickly he is recovering and said he may be released as early as Tuesday, a short hospital stay for such an injury in my opinion. The blood clot on his brain is being monitored and has not grown since yesterday. This will obviously need to be continuously monitored.
He is also alert and talking so it appears that the likelihood of permanent brain damage is minimal.
Claire is at home and in good spirits. She was her normal cheery self on the phone though notably shaken when she was describing the scenario to me. She'll need some re-constructive surgery on her face from the fractured cheek. She also, if the initial injuries weren't enough, suffered numerous contusions from some very sizable hail which began to fall during a nasty storm that rolled in shortly after the incident. She was stranded on the ledge for approximately two hours before she was rescued and unable to find any shelter from the elements.
We all hope for a speedy recovery for both of them.
A big thanks goes out to all of the climbers/SAR members who assisted in their rescue!! The first two to find Trevor at the base happened to be EMTs and jumped right into action stabilizing Trevor and orchestrating his extraction. There were a number of others who helped to carry them off the mountain on the litters which is no easy task. Also, a special thanks goes out to Ryan Moore (sp?) who hiked back in the the route to retrieve their gear and Claire's car which he then drove down the mountain to Riverside County Hospital where the two had been airlifted.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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my best wishes to Claire and Trevor
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Wow, they are lucky to have survived. Thanks for sharing your report of the details.
Some ideas for possible future accident prevention in this type of situation (I'm not familiar with the route, so some of these may not have been possible):
 bring more gear, so you don't have to use a minimal belay anchor
divide the pitch if you run out of gear (assuming you have enough to build an anchor or can downclimb to such a point)
it's also sometimes possible to climb to a stance, place a good temporary anchor, go off belay, drop a slack loop back to the belayer, have them clip on gear from their anchor, and continue the lead. This is maybe more useful if you need a particular size of gear for the lead that is in the anchor below.
place 2 pieces of lead pro, if there are hard moves coming up and nothing else in above the belay anchor
try to position the belayer so they can't be hit by a falling leader (or falling rock). Sometimes they can hang 20' below the anchor (using 20' of the lead rope) if there are hard moves directly above the anchor.
Maybe, Ryan = Ryan Mattock ? ("pyro on the mountain" on supertopo). He posted in the thread on the snakebite rescue.
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S.Powers
Social climber
Jtree, now in Alaska
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Is this trevor that works/worked for nomad ventures?
Speedy recovery and best wishes either way.
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Llama
Big Wall climber
The bubble that is Irvine, CA
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Not the Trevor that used to work for Nomads... he is safe behind Degnan's Pizza Loft cash register =)
Clint - Those are all some very good suggestions. As we know, different routes present different problems/solutions. In this case I'm afraid it was mostly a combination of inexperience and overconfidence that led to the fall. Trevor has a strong lead head and isn't afraid to take a fall. Unfortunately he hadn't been climbing a very long time and the routes he'd been on thus far all offered great pro throughout the climb where this time he had fewer options. Having not been in a similar situation he didn't recognize the reality of the danger of this route I think.
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Russ Walling
Social climber
Nutsonthechin, Wisconsin
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WOW!!!!!! Speedy recover to both of them. That there is quite a story.
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originalpmac
Trad climber
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man, it is always sad to hear about accidents, but hearing about random people rallying together and saving lives and returning gear and cars always makes me happy. people rock. best wishes on the recoveries.
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Beatrix Kiddo
Mountain climber
Littleton
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Amazing. Best wishes to both of them.
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Dr. Rock
Ice climber
Castle Rock
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Wow, we humans are tougher than we think.
Speedy recovery will be yours since your in shape.
No capping til the last person gets out of the hospital, thats the rule, right?
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dee ee
Mountain climber
citizen of planet Earth
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Best and speedy recovery to Trevor and Claire, that was a horrendous accident. We are so relieved to hear that a full recovery is expected. The hail and rain storm must have been incredible as well. The entire area showed signs of massive runoff with piles of hail still in place around the base on Sunday afternoon.
Evans family.
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Rhodo-Router
Gym climber
Otto, NC
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What a nightmare. It's a good thing Tevor has, as you said, 'a strong lead head"...sounds like he used it to break his fall!
Best of luck in your recovery,
Rob
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Jaybro
Social climber
wuz real!
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Yikes, scary story. Glad they seem to be on the way back to normal. Thanks to those who helped them out, any one of us might need your help down the road.
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Lost Arrow
Trad climber
The North Ridge of the San Fernando
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From what I recall the belay has bomber pro and the pitch above is rather tricky from a protection standpoint.
Juan
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SteveW
Trad climber
The state of confusion
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Again, hopes for a speedy recovery to Trevor and Claire,
and for the wonderful news of the prognosis.
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graham
Social climber
Ventura, California
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Holly Shit!
And then to be battered by Hail
Glad all survived, I wish you all a speedy recovery.
Mike
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Anastasia
climber
Not there
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I am glad they survived and wish them a quick recovery. Holy sheemister, makes me rethink about the half ass belay anchors I have set up over the years.
AF
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goodwill
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Wow! I'm glad to hear they're both still alive! Best wishes for a speedy recovery to both of them.
I don't want to hijack this thread, but the silver lining in any accident is the opportunity for all of us to learn from it. I agree with the points that Clint mentioned, but I have a few more to add.
1) To me, the biggest lesson here is what John Long calls the "Jesus nut": the most important piece of pro the leader places on any pitch after pitch 1 is the first piece. The last line of defense against the whole team falling to their deaths (which almost happened here) is the anchor, and that defense will only really be tested in the case of a factor 2 fall. The last line of defense against a factor 2 fall is the first piece of pro the leader places. Place it early, and make it bomber. In this case, that piece failed. If it hadn't, the whole accident would probably have been avoided. It sounds like he may not have had many options, but I think it's a good lesson nonetheless.
2) The other obvious lesson here is simply, "Build bomber anchors." The anchor in this case, having only two pieces, sounds less than optimal, but perhaps they thought it was "good enough". Most of us have probably never had an anchor actually tested by a factor 2 fall, so we don't really know if our "good enough" anchors are good enough or not. Don't assume. Build 'em safe. Furthermore, if you can see (or have heard or read) that the next pitch might be hard to protect, then based on point #1 above, that's all the more reason to build your belay anchor extra bomber. In this case, they did the opposite.
3) Finally, after thinking in detail about the scenario Llama described, it seems to me the only way this could have happened is if Claire were belaying Trevor "redirected"*. Llama, can you verify this with Claire?
If so, perhaps this is further evidence that using a redirected belay to belay a leader is a Bad Idea. I'm often surprised by how many people seem to advocate belaying this way, or simply do so because they haven't thought about it. As far as I know, many (most? all?) of the real experts strongly advise against it, because it significantly increases (roughly doubles) the forces on the anchor in exactly this scenario.
Will
* redirected - belay device attached to belayer's harness, but rope goes from there through anchor, then on to climber, as opposed to "indirect" (same, except rope does not go through anchor) or "direct" (belay device is attached directly to anchor instead of to belayer; not usually used to belay a leader)
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JuanGrande
Trad climber
Oceanside
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wow, lucky climbers!!! I wonder if the lost art of nut placement played a role in this epic. Cams are not the end-all some climbers treat them as. Back in the day we carried plenty of nuts and a few "Friends", nuts were relatively cheap and light, "Friends" were a luxury. You can often set a nut firmly, cams are more likely to twist.
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graham
Social climber
Ventura, California
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The Jesus Nut, thats good for this. FYI Thats what they call the Nut that holds on a helicopters rotor blades. Little highjack
Dont agree with the redirected belay being a bad idea. But you do need more than one good anchor.
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Double D
climber
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My prayers go out to both of them for a full and speedy recovery. They are blessed to be alive and as well as they are, no doubt.
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shutupandclimb
climber
Palm Desert Ca.
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Good Luck and best wishes to Claire and Trevor. I would like to know more about this Redirected issue.
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Ola Girl
Trad climber
Thousand Oaks, CA
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I wish Trevor and Claire a speedy and full recovery!
I wanted to share an anchor rating system someone taught me in an anchor building class. This system should be used to evaluate every anchor you build:
Every anchor should have a score of at least 10. You assign a score (up to 5) to each piece based on how bomber you think it is (or not). The only things that can ever be a 5 are slinging a big giant boulder or a big giant tree. Bolts can never be a 5 because, unless you drilled it in the rock yourself, you never know how bomber it is. Bottom line - you'll almost always need 3 pieces.
I thought it was kind of a neat way to look at it...no one had ever explained it to me like this before.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, Ca
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That anchor rating system sounds ok, but if I put two slings around the same giant sequoia can I call it a ten?
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Ghost
climber
A long way from where I started
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First, best wishes for Trevor and Claire.
The only things that can ever be a 5 are slinging a big giant boulder or a big giant tree.
Three weeks ago I saw a giant boulder slide off a ledge when one of us bumped a small dead tree that was lying across it. The boulder was exactly the kind you're talking about -- in fact if it had been any bigger it would have been too big to get slings around.
Which is not to say that a slung boulder can't make a fine anchor, just that any system that assigns absolute values to belay anchors is itself suspect.
D
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crøtch
climber
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Both climbers are lucky to be alive. Best wishes for a speedy and complete recovery.
WRT anchor failure, I would suspect that there wasn't a true F2 fall involved. If so, the belayer wouldn't have stayed on the ledge. I've got to think that it was the impact of the climber hitting the belayer, transmitted to the anchor through the tie-in that caused the complete anchor failure.
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GDavis
Trad climber
SoCal
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Wow, luck sure shined, in a weird sort of way. Glad to see they both are alive and ticking, if not a little beat up because of it!
Trevor from Nomad actually is up in the meadows now in the store. Just got back from doing some jibbity up there with the homey.
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NDS
climber
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I am so glad to hear that Trevor is going to be ok - I saw the fall and am honestly pretty surprised. I was up there with my husband and a couple friends who helped out in getting them down and then went back up for Claire. We haven't been able to stop thinking about it, analyzing it and wondering if he made it since it happened, so thank you so much for the update.
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looking sketchy there...
Social climber
Latitute 33
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Am very glad to hear that both Trevor and Claire are doing OK and wish them a speedy recovery.
Sounds like quick action by other climbers helped a great deal as well. Kudos to them.
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RickF
Mountain climber
Temecula, CA
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It is great news that Trevor is expected to recover. I didn't see the fall but I did hear it. I was just around the corner at the bottom of Spatula with my kids.
I am really impressed by the efforts of the great team of "good samaritan" first responders!
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Dr. Rock
Ice climber
Castle Rock
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You know if you call Warner or Paramount, they will pay good money to shoot these stunts, might help offset any co-payments, what say?
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Llama
Big Wall climber
The bubble that is Irvine, CA
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Here's the latest...
Trevor had a Halo neck brace put on today. He'll have to wear the apparatus for three months. When he woke up after the procedure he was in intense pain so he was sedated. A specialist came out today prior to removing the tubes from his neck in order to assess any possible damage to his vocal chords. He had been talking but it was strained and all precautions were being taken to make sure there are no complications here. Trevor will have to remain in the hospital for at least another day or two so doctors can evaluate how he is receiving the Halo. Hopefully the pain will subside and he can go home soon.
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tamberly
Trad climber
san diego
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I've been a trad climber for about 12 years now. I can't believe how lucky both of these climbers are! I hope for a fast and speedy recovery to both. Its interesting how a climber friend and I agree on that 1st piece after the belay needing to be bomber and relatively close to keep the leader from falling on the belayer. A good thing for everyone to remember. I know I stitched up my climb on sunday because of the news.
Captain hook's first pitch is no gimme... and I've heard the 2nd pitch is very hard to protect... In my early years I didn't know any better I would have been very ballsy too. I'm certainly more careful and considerate because of my climbing experience.
My hubby and I helped a climber who fell from the top of the first pitch on White Maiden a couple of years ago.. I know how hard it is to carry someone down. So thanks to everyone that helped!
Good luck to both climbers. Keep the faith
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Social climber
valley center, ca
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Geez, my husband and brother carried a gal down years ago from Suicide that died on impact. Got off route on White Maiden climbing with her brother. Serious shee...no matter what grade you are on the rock.
Stuff I've learned in the last few months...check, check and if you don't have the gear or whatever find the next best place.
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esoteric1
Trad climber
san dieco, ca
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i wasnt there but i want to thank clark for being there, from what i gathered from talking to him, he did a damn fine job up there putting everything together. he told me he found the guy, blue and got the airway dialed, and got his neck stabalized.
I know what its like to be in the middle of an accident like this and what tole it takes on the people involved in the rescue. we all owe it to people that have the knowledge and skill to keep these situations all together. if it was me, id put my life in clarks hands anyday.
he also told me that there was NO gear on the rope and i find it hard to believe that that 3 pieces were pulled, and none were found on the rope.
thanks again to the people that went up and got the injured climber off the ledge that wasnt able to decend by herself, we owe alot to the people that get involved in other peoples lives,,, you guys rock!
mark
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NDS
climber
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RickF... were you the family that watched my dog? Thank you so much! I lost track of you and have been hoping you made it down before the hail started in - did you end up getting caught in it? I ended up finding my husband - he did go back up to get the 2nd climber... and of course the hail started when they were on the climb. Everybody made it down fine though.
Llama... your updates have replaced the big eerie question mark of that day with the expectation of a happy ending. It means a lot to us, and I'm sure everyone reading, to know that he is going to be ok.
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Raydog
Trad climber
Boulder Colorado
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Holy sh#t,
so sorry to hear this;
hope they recover in full.
major bummer...
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Llama
Big Wall climber
The bubble that is Irvine, CA
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To answer the question about why no gear was seen on the rope...
The single piece Trevor placed on lead pulled and slid down the rope to the ledge where Claire was belaying. The piece, a #1 BD cam remained on the ledge as Trevor continued to fall. The other two pieces were part of the anchor which Claire was connected to. Since Clair MIRACULOUSLY didn't fall off the ledge, those pieces were also unseen by Clark.
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Llama
Big Wall climber
The bubble that is Irvine, CA
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Trevor is still in the hospital. The tubes are finally out but he has developed Pneumonia. He appears to be managing it fairly well. It seems like it's been a lot of big improvements coupled with a lot of setbacks at the same time for the last several days. Hopefully he'll overcome this new development quickly.
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SteveW
Trad climber
The state of confusion
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More good vibes for Trevor here. Hope the pneumonia
is only a temporary blip.
Get better, Trevor! We're pulling for you!
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Tahoe climber
Trad climber
a dark-green forester out west
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Here's wishing good luck to both of the accident victims.
Claire sounds like a very lucky girl.
Actually, they both sound very lucky!
Be careful out there guys and along with the Jesus Nut, exercise the Jesus Judgement, too!
Speedy recovery -
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RickF
Mountain climber
Temecula, CA
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NDS,
Yes we are the family that watched your dog. It was mostly my daughter, she loves Roscoe (SP?). We last saw you by the big flat rock the second time the helicopter came over. I left my pack with our rain jackets up where the trail passes under the big fallen tree. When it started raining I headed back up with my son to get our gear. We got soaked and then the marble sized hail started coming down. We made it out O.K. I got my kids dried off and gave some dry clothes to the guy with no shirt (I think he used his shirt to help wrap Trevor's head). About that time the rain and hail subsided. The hiker/climber who I think was an EMT, and from the posts here I think his name is Clark, took binoculars from his car and said he could still people, (probably your husband and Claire) up on the ledge. What a day! You guys are great people, I'm glad to hear you made it out O.K. too, thanks for helping.
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RickF
Mountain climber
Temecula, CA
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According to Sign-on-SanDiego news the female climber was Claire McKay of Costa Mesa. Anyone know if she has red hair? It's a small world. I think that I may have met her in a climbing class at Suicide a couple of years ago. I'm glad to hear they are both on the mend.
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Llama
Big Wall climber
The bubble that is Irvine, CA
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No red hair on Claire. She's a blondy lass
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whirlybird
Trad climber
san diego, ca
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Best of luck in recovery. I hope we can all learn from it.
I'm pretty new to the climbing scene, so help me out with the scenario. Until now, I understood that a well placed #1 or #3 cam was pretty damn strong. To hear that both of these pulled out makes me wonder why.
Were the placements less than perfect? Is the crack shallow, uneven, or flared? Were they loaded at a weird angle? Was the fall load so much higher than normal?
I know nobody has the complete answer, but any insight you guys (or gals) can give would help me out.
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Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, Ca
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First, I send my best wishes and hopes for a quick and fuill recovery to both of the injured climbers. "There but for the grace..." go most of us.
Re Whirlybird's questions, yes a #1 or 3 Cam placed well in good rock is very strong indeed. In 35 years of trad climbing I have never had a piece that I thought was good pull in a fall or otherwise. Sometimes we elect or are forced to climb over marginal gear but that is another story.
Honestly, what I have read so far about this accident doesn't quite add up. But I think that under the circumstances of a desperate and difficult rescue in terrible weather we may have to settle for less than a complete analysis.
It sounds like everyone involved on the scene did a great job in trying condidtions, and in the end we should all be pleased that the outcome was not one or two fatalaties, which is what happens more often than not when belay anchors fail.
Again, best wishes to Trevor and Claire.
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jstan
climber
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Wbird:
After reading the fairly detailed discussion above, it seems no piece of protection put in the second pitch worked. Now rock will sometimes run this way but when it does you need to belay where there is no question as to your anchors. Period. If you have to belay in slings right below a comfy ledge, that's the breaks. If it looks like you have to break a pitch in half, so be it. That this was not done suggests the party may also not have been experienced in the placing of the protection itself. I have not done that route, but the existence of one problem always suggests there may have been others. Problems are a lot like rattlesnakes. You see one, start looking for another.
You ask a very good question about the placing of protection. Because I can go into a store with shelves absolutely overflowing with shiny stuff and lay down boucou bucks, there is no assurance whatsoever that the stuff will do me any good. None. Probably before you had been born I asked myself the same question. To get answers I went out, got a light hydraulic rig, and began testing my placements up to 3000# dead weight. Backing these tests up with realistically set up simulations of falls. Before going off to climb a person needs to have the experience required to tell whether their placements will do the job that needs doing, or not. If you cannot get some time climbing with someone who has that experience, put your equipment in the closet and leave it there.
Now quite a number of people have gone out and taught themselves, very well I might add, just by pacing themselves very expertly and building their experience on their own. You may be such a person, or you may not. Just know that the risk you run, is appreciable.
Everything we do each day involves one sort of risk or another. The crux is to know how large that risk is and whether what is to be gained is worth it. Getting up on a rock wall is no different from walking down a sidewalk beside a heavily travelled road. Anything and everything can fail at any time. Your judgment and your alertness are your only true protection.
Edit:
G raises a really important point. If you don't like the leader's anchor don't pause for a second. Raise the issue. If you have to go lower on the face to get two good placements, do it.
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TGT
Social climber
So Cal
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Topic Author's Reply - Sep 5, 2008 - 03:32pm PT
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It's rare that exactly what happened is determined in these kinds of events. Maybe the participants will have some comments, but it is unlikely they will have accurate memories of the details.
I've done that route a few times, although not recently. As I remember it the belay ledge in question is fairly large with a bit of a lip / bumps on the outside edge and the "Crocodiles Throat" opening in the middle. The next pitch starts up a bit of a flare.
What I'm guessing happened is she was belaying fairly tight to anchors in the back of the flare which would limit her abillity to move to the side. When he came off and blew out the piece he landed between her and the rock and across the anchor almost directly on the strong point. That would place huge impact loads on the anchor from an unexpected direction and also slam her violently into the rock.
Even when the pitch doesn't start off difficult it's just as important to set gear and situate the belay to protect the belayer as well as the leader. In some situations that might even mean forgoing a placement or a more comfortable belay if it would decrease chances of clobering your belayer.
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G_Gnome
Trad climber
In the mountains... somewhere...
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I think it is also important as a belayer to be able to keep yourself safe. If the anchor the leader sets isn't any good, set a good one. If the leader falls, prepare to get out of the way as much as possible. Sometimes this might even mean tieing in long and jumping off the ledge. Common sense is one of the things that seem most often missed in these situations. Bring that and you are much safer than with a shiny new rack.
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That Darn French Guy
Sport climber
Santa Clara, CA
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Well I hope they rest and that his blood clot will stabilize and become safe for him to walk out of the hospital. They're very lucky to just be alive apparently.
So if I read the topo right, Captain Hook is a 5.7/G on suicide rock, in Riverside CA (never been there).
Crazy... 3 failures, and with #1, #3 BD cams and a nut?!
I wonder why it happened...
Did the #1 rotate/walk/turn as he passed the piece?
Did he kick it by accident?
Were the placements tricky?
Was the anchor equalized properly?
Was he using quickdraws instead of slings?
Were they experienced in placing gear?
If not were they mentored by experienced trad climbers?
Did any piece fail or did they all pull out?
If failures, where was the gear from, in what condition...
The accident warrants some investigation:
To me all the gear used in the wall should have been bomber and sustained a fall. I remember seeing a guy falling repeatedly 20ft above a blue alien as a 1st piece in the needles, and it took 4 or 5 repeated falls before the piece broke. 'took photos then too. :) So I'd expect a #1, or even a #3 to be real solid.
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jstan
climber
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An Alien broke? And did so after several big falls?
Pardon me. But that is worse than having a manufacturing problem. Now we are talking fundamental design.
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tooth
Mountain climber
B.C.
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Congratulations to the guys who stabilized the broken neck and didn't paralyze the patient! I'd be mighty thankful for those skills.
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That Darn French Guy
Trad climber
Santa Clara, CA
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> Congratulations to the guys who stabilized the broken neck
+1 !
> An Alien broke? And did so after several big falls? Pardon me. But that is worse than having a manufacturing problem. Now we are talking fundamental design.
Don't exactly remember if only the biner blew while the piece pulled or the cam broke... It's however not surprising after overstretching the rope and the cam repeatedly without rechecking the gear: You increase the impact force beyond specs. A blue has a low kN rating compared to any regular size cam. The discussion dates from '05 and was here http://www.rockclimbing.com/photos/Trad/Big_whipper_on_Atlantis_57561.html. BTW, I love and use Aliens. Let's not go there :).
> Captain Hook is a cakewalk. I onsight soloed it.
... And Reardon solo'ed what you sweat on. These were beginners climbing their level. Have perspective and consideration. :)
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Llama
Big Wall climber
The bubble that is Irvine, CA
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Ok Juan deFucNut... we get it. You already said earlier in the forum that you solo'd the route... congratulations. I'm glad you are THAT cool
If only we could all aspire to such heights
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Juan de Fuca (aka Jeff Batten) should know enough not to troll in a thread about an accident where 2 people almost died. But it seems he can't resist.
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Sabrina
climber
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Thanks, Llama for your posts.
I just met Claire at school in a Geology (actually meteorology) class last week. She just struck me as an amazingly radiant soul, someone I'd really enjoy being around. When she wasn't there this week, I was thinking, "Gee, I hope she didn't drop. She was so cool!!!"
I was shocked and saddened to read about the accident in the LA Times this morning...just really shocked that such a brilliant life could come so close to ending. I am so thankful that she and Trevor are going to be alright.
Would you be so kind to pass on a message for me to Claire? Let her know that I really will be thinking about her and praying for a speedy recovery. And I hope to see her soon. She can have all my notes. :)
Sabrina
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Grant Meisenholder
Trad climber
CA
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Hey Juan-
Ya wanna shut up all us nay-sayers that are calling your troll b.s? Post a video of yourself actually soling the thing. Simple as that.
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Llama
Big Wall climber
The bubble that is Irvine, CA
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Thanks Sabrina, I'll let her know!
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Lost Arrow
Trad climber
The North Ridge of the San Fernando
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I would have to ropesolo it these days.
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dee ee
Mountain climber
citizen of planet Earth
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Hey Juan, you remind me of that presidential candidate, "did'ja know I was a prisoner of war?"
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Llama
Big Wall climber
The bubble that is Irvine, CA
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Hahaha ohhhh MFE, you hit that nail on the head
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dee ee
Mountain climber
citizen of planet Earth
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Good to see the lame comments pulled!
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Gobi
Trad climber
Orange CA
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Who brags about soloing 5.7?
And your not Reardon so dont brag for him...
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SteveW
Trad climber
The state of confusion
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Sep 13, 2008 - 10:01am PT
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Another bump--good wishes for Claire & Trevor.
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Ed Hartouni
Trad climber
Livermore, CA
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Sep 13, 2008 - 11:26am PT
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hoping that the climbers are well on their way down the difficult path to recovery.
I suggest that the analysis of the accident might be moved from the thread, since I imagine it would be difficult (it would be for me) to both derive the positive energy of the well wishers from the unavoidably negative energy of a critical analysis of what happened...
...we had a thread over a year ago regarding this sort of thing...
http://www.supertopo.com/climbing/thread.html?topic_id=319605
perhaps it could be revived (or another started) and some of the critical comments moved there... and leave this thread as a place for us to leave encouraging, uplifting posts that would be helpful, and less likely to be interpreted as hurtful.
Just a thought.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Oakville, Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Sep 13, 2008 - 11:40am PT
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Holy frig, Donny - I just read this thread! Sorry for not replying sooner. Best wishes to Claire and Trevor in their continuing recoveries. Thank God they are both still alive - a true miracle.
To the rest of you reading this: bring PLENTY of gear and KNOW how to use it! This accident should never have happened, and would not have happened had the two of them been climbing with a bigger rack.
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Organbear2
Trad climber
San Diego, CA
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Sep 29, 2008 - 09:03pm PT
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Fall factor much greater than 2
I think crøtch (post 40) has the best idea of what probably happened, and it's made me realize a common situation is much more dangerous than I had ever imagined.
I want to expand on what happens when falling climber lands on his belayer and "shock loads" the belay anchor. Think of the the fall factor of just the tie-in to the belayer. The classic example of a fall factor 2 is a climber 10 feet out and falling 20 feet on 10 feet of rope to absorb the impact. So imagine that same 10 foot fall being absorbed by just the short piece of climbing rope to the belay anchor, say 2 feet long. That would be a fall factor of 5! And, worse, in this instance there is no belay device to slip and give a "dynamic belay."
Oh, and that "Jesus nut" will not save you either. ;)
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| Messages 1 - 82 of total 82 in this topic |
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