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Billy
climber
Boston, Ma
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Topic Author's Original Post - Aug 11, 2008 - 12:12am PT
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Hey everybody.
I'm 25 years old, climbed in a gym TWICE ever, a few months ago, and I have decided that I want to climb Lurking Fear next October (2009).
Thoughts, laughs, ideas. Whatever you got would be great.
I'm afraid of heights, I don't know anything about climbing, and I'm out of shape. This is Cool Runnin's style here, but I want to make it happen. Any help would be appreciated.
Thanks
-Billy
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BWB
Trad climber
Truckee
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Aug 11, 2008 - 12:34am PT
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Dude, BAIL!
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Sascha
climber
Sebastopol, CA
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Aug 11, 2008 - 12:58am PT
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Why Lurking Fear? Hire a guide.
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Russ Walling
Social climber
Nutsonthechin, Wisconsin
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Aug 11, 2008 - 12:59am PT
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"Yer Gonna Die!!!!!1111"
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Billy
climber
Boston, Ma
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 11, 2008 - 01:05am PT
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Such encouragement so soon is really inspiring.
Impossible?
Implausible?
LOVE the 'Yer Gunna Die' reply, btw. Chuckles.
I was thinking more along the lines of equipment, where to start training, etc...
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Social climber
valley center, ca
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Aug 11, 2008 - 01:08am PT
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Why ? Unless you have the motivation you won't be able to pull it off.
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dogtown
climber
Where I once was,I think?
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Aug 11, 2008 - 01:08am PT
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Go outside and kill yourself,its less work.
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Billy
climber
Boston, Ma
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 11, 2008 - 01:11am PT
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Definitely have the motivation. The suicidal suggestions are really helpful. Really. I was hoping for information, though?
Does anyone consider this possible? If so, ideas for me for the next year to make it happen?
Thanks!
(And I wasn't being cute. I do appreciate the suggestions to walk outside and kill myself.)
-Billy
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Social climber
valley center, ca
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Aug 11, 2008 - 01:20am PT
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zeriously,
1) Quit your job
2) Lose weight
3) Get in shape
4) See a shrink about the fear of heights OR
use the time honored system of exposure to heights to lose
the fear.
5) Read every book you can get your hands on abut climin'
6) Hire someone to school you and take you up the route.
That was easy!!!!!
ps...the word trolling comes to mind : )
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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Aug 11, 2008 - 01:36am PT
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Oh snap, Lynne is onto the internet tricks of the trade.
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GDavis
Trad climber
SoCal
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Aug 11, 2008 - 02:16am PT
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in all honesty, do you plan on jugging the thing following someone or leading the thing?
In order to "climb" it, in my book, you would have to be a self sufficiant member of a 2 person outfit. Able to lead any cruxes, doing half the work, and able to do some self rescue.
It is possible!
FIRST OFF!
Are you a trust funder? This will be your biggest asset, as you need either a ton of gear or a partner who has a rack big enough to account for it.
OK! Here's what you do!
Buy Supertopo's book "Road to the Nose" and complete as many of those in the few months before your climb (april- june, and then late sept/oct would give you 3 or 4 months of time to do those routes).
Until then! CLIMB CLIMB CLIMB! Often as well! Find a partner who has no life, free time, and PASSION! Go out every weekend to a traditional crag.
-Toprope some climbs
-learn how to place gear and build anchors (via john longs "how to climb" book or Mountaineering: freedom of the hills).
-Follow some routes on gear (multi pitch) and asses the placements and the protection. See what the leader is doing to reduce rope drag and keep him safe.
-Lead on gear, with a second rope as toprope. Get some slack from the top rope and fall a few feet on some placements (good clean falls, no more than 3 or 5 feet).
-Lead some sport routes
-Lead single pitch easy routes
-start upping the grade on both facets
-spend your weekends at crags, building up to a 5.8ish profficiancy. Be COMFY at this grade, where you feel you could climb 5.8 anywhere, anytime.
-Start leading multipitch routes that are easy but require efficiancy. Royal Arches is a good example, or anywhere that has longer routes than 3 or 4 pitches you can access.
-Start aid climbing on C1 cracks. Learn to belay and lead.
-Work at understanding multipitch climbing for walls. How to set up a 1:1, 2:1, 3:1 haul. Find and practice the best technique for jugging (hint - search for PtPP's posts). Buy the Aid Climbing DVD.
-Put all that to practice with the routes listed in Road to the Nose
If you have the time, money and commitment to travel to and complete these tasks, you can easily make it. Its not a factor of how much TIME before you climb a wall, but how you use yer time. Some people climb more in a month than most climbers do in a year. With this understanding, 14 months for you COULD be MORE than enough.
Do it. You can. How sick would that be??? If you're serious enough about it, but need more gear (aid harness, aiders, jumars, etc) send me an email closer to your climbing date. I can let you borrow it if I'm not using it at the time (probably won't be).
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GDavis
Trad climber
SoCal
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Aug 11, 2008 - 02:18am PT
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oh, and any time at a gym (past learning to belay) is time WASTED! If you need a workout, go on a bike ride or a hike. Time at a gym is OPPORTUNITY LOST.
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dogtown
climber
Where I once was,I think?
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Aug 11, 2008 - 04:03am PT
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Well there you have it GD spelled it out for you.
Now get to WORK !!!
Look at it this way if that fat ass Idiot Jack Osborn can make it up EL Cap.
You can too.
Good Luck, Dog.
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Captain...or Skully
Big Wall climber
Yonder (in the sagebrush)
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Aug 11, 2008 - 07:21am PT
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Who's Jack Osborn?
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Billy
climber
Boston, Ma
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 11, 2008 - 07:30am PT
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See?
That's WAY better than suicide.
I may have overstated how out-of-shape I am, and I am already comfortable belaying. So I guess I can stay out of the gym for the most part. I will need to pick up some books, DVDs, and a ton of gear. I'll probly need some guidance on where to climb in the Boston area, as weekend trips out to Cali (though sick) wouldn't be in the budget. At least not every weekend.
Jack Osborn did it?
Damn. I guess I WAY overstated how out-of-shape I am.
I'm going to be researching your posts into the ground over the next 24-48 hours, just to figure out what the hell most of it said, but thank you, seriously, to everyone who posted. Every shred of info I can get here will help.
Anyone else think of anything, please don't hesitate.
-Billy
P.S. Thanks GDavis for the most concise post so far. I agree with your definittino of "climb." Lynne, also thanks, I MIGHT need to keep the job. What's trolling? I mean I understand some definitions of the word, but I'm not sure if it's slang.
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AbeFrohman
Trad climber
new york, NY
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Aug 11, 2008 - 09:22am PT
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Boston is close enough to New Hampshire to get plenty of time in on biggish routes. Mt. Washington, Cannon Cliff, Whitehorse Ledge, Franconia Notch, etc.
There's also the Adirondacks and the Gunks in NY for some more adventures. Plenty of bigger routes in the Adirondacks.
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Billy
climber
Boston, Ma
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 11, 2008 - 09:42am PT
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Awesome, Abe. Great point. I thought Mt. Washington was just something that my parents drove up to the top of in their van.
(I hated that stupid bumper sticker so much)
How much would all of this gear cost to get this done, you think?
-Billy
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billygoat
climber
3hrs to El Cap Meadow, 1.25hrs Pinns, 42min Castle
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Aug 11, 2008 - 10:12am PT
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troll.
ya'll been had.
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Billy
climber
Boston, Ma
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 11, 2008 - 10:14am PT
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So I'm looking at 1400-2000 to get started. Bummer.
Okay, I'll burn that bridge when I come to it. Does anyone go to a gym, or is it truly a waste of time?
I kinda thought that getting in better shape would help, and I can't climb EVERY day.
Thoughts? I'm going to go work on the money thing.
-Billy
P.S. What is a troll? What is trolling? Help out with this?
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Kupandamingi
Trad climber
Berkeley
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Aug 11, 2008 - 10:16am PT
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Jack Osborn did do it (a fact my brother loves to remind me of when belittling big walling in relation to big wave surfing - and perhaps rightly so) - but the fact remains he did in fact get him self in great shape, had two guides, jugged everything except TRing a single 5.9 pitch.........all these caveats and it was still damn impressive. Also - I essentially tagged along on my first el cap route and led only 3 pitches and mostly jugged (also Lurking Fear) and I have to tell you it will leave you wanting and not with a sense of accomplishment. Im sure proverbs abound about this, but Ill leave you with these from E. Africa - pole pole ndiyo mwendo (slowly is indeed the proper path) and haraka haraka haina barkaka (quickly quickly has no blessing).
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mark miller
Social climber
Reno
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Aug 11, 2008 - 10:19am PT
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You need a good partner (or guide), who will have all or a portion of the gear. You will need to be in top physical condition, just to get you gear to the base of Lurking fear. Unless ElcapPics sets you up with some sherpa's ( more change..). You had better get your ass on the rock 3 times a week . Lear to climb at night with a headlamp so you can go afterwork and still climb. cross train for endurance and you'll probably need more strength to haul (the slabby pitches up top will be alot of fun...) then you know of.
Your goal is "Knott" impossible but is going to require more out of you then you ever thought you had in you, especially if you're planning on doing your half of the leading and hauling.
Howdy Greg, Kupandamingi is in great shape, a strong and go for it climber with a sensible head on his shoulders, and a heck of a lot of .10's and harder(leading) under his belt when he did Lurking.....
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Billy
climber
Boston, Ma
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 11, 2008 - 10:26am PT
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Officially the best thing I've ever heard about a fear of heights.
No sherpas, but a headlamp is a great idea. As far as top physical condition, I assume we're talking about cutting alot of weight, and developing sickening upper-body strength?
-Billy
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AbeFrohman
Trad climber
new york, NY
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Aug 11, 2008 - 10:33am PT
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why such a specific olympian goal? why not just learn to rock climb, take your time, and have fun?
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Roger Breedlove
climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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Aug 11, 2008 - 10:34am PT
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Billy, you have picked a good route for your quest (either as a real climbing goal or a good troll).
"Lurking Fear" was first climbed by Phil Bircheff and Jim Pettigrew, in 1976. I don't think Phil had climbed for an extended period to time before rising 'off-the-couch', driving to the Valley and climbing a new El Cap route. Here is a cartoon featuring Phil with one of his quips, draw about four years earlier.
Good luck
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Billy
climber
Boston, Ma
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 11, 2008 - 10:49am PT
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I don't know why I picked Lurking Fear. I don't know why I picked El Cap, for that matter. Olympian is a funny word for it because I made this decision watching Michael Phelps swimming for Gold last night, and decided to do something amazing. Why not?
I think it was the names? Lurking Fear. El Capitan. Yeah.
Also, as I understand it, Lurking Fear is one of the easiest "aid climbs*" (don't know what that means) on El Cap.
I'll asterisk stuff I don't understand from now on. Looking for definitions.
Still trying to understand trolling* but I guess I'll figure that out.
That cartoon is friggin classic. Maybe I'll write a book about this. That will be in there.
-Billy
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Roman
Trad climber
Boston
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Aug 11, 2008 - 11:51am PT
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Billy, you are stepping up to a noble goal. I do not mean to dissuade you but I think your time frame is not realistic if you actually want to be the person to climb the thing as opposed to jugging it.
El Cap is a goal of mine as well. It has been in my sights for 4 years now and I am making my first trip to the valley this sept. (No, I will not be climbing the captain this time around. But hopefully will do WFLT next season as my first big wall.)
Anyway.,... I too am in Boston. Are you climbing at crow hill, or up in North Conway yet? You really need to get up there before even thinking of cali. Feel free to hit me up if you need anything out this way as far as route advice etc ....
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jstan
climber
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Aug 11, 2008 - 12:01pm PT
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Billy:
My guess is while watching Phelps you suddenly realized you were alive.
Sometime in my first month of climbing( at the age of 26) I formed an
outlandish goal and completed it by the end of that summer. Having such
a goal is very useful in that you get down to work right away. A few
suggestions some of which may even be right or useful listed starting
with those requiring the least assistance. It takes time to line up
assistance.
1. Start a running program to build up pulmonary and heart function.
Don’t "jog", Jogging just produces impact that destroys the frame. Run
interval sprints that focus on building endurance. If you are not coming
off the big toe you are faking. Focus on the breathing. Don’t, don’t run
on pavement. As you would not run your horse on pavement, so you
should not run. Soft sand if you have it.
2. Upper body. Daily sets of pull ups to near exhaustion. They should be
sufficiently frequent that you can still feel the previous set. Watch out
for elbow damage. Back off when you feel a problem there and figure out
what you are doing wrong. Isometric endurance hangs can be very hard
on the elbows. Never hang from relaxed shoulders, unless you want them
to start dislocating. Rope climbing is excellent. Again several sets a day.
To change the body you have to convince the body it has to change if it
wants to survive.
3. Food. If you really like to eat something it is probably refined sugar.
Cut it out completely. Number one is to get your weight down to only the
tissues that you use while climbing. If your upper legs start to get heavy
you are doing something wrong. The legs you need to climb should be
relatively light. No useless excess pounds to drag up hill.
Climbing
1. Gyms. I climbed with an avid gym climber who was surprised that
outdoor 5.7 was harder than gym 5.11. I was quite old when gyms first
appeared and I found they were really excellent at producing tendonitis.
You like to get tendonitis early in life? Go for it. Won’t help you at all on
learning aid.
2. Assistance. I got started with help from MITOC. They may still be
around. If you are working hard you will find someone to teach you.
3. Aid. There are few cracks and fewer aid climbs in the East. No matter.
Until you have been at it for a couple months you will not know yet what
you are interested in/ good at. No matter what, it will work out.
4. Gear. Once you have a teacher you won’t need to buy a lot of gear.
Just buy a few pieces and perhaps a rope. When not climbing you will
want something to look at – and dream. Try and get good comfortable
shoes. No point in having shoes so short and painful you start hoping
death will come soon.
5. Injury. When you are injured you can’t climb. Don’t get injured.
6. Kind of climbing. Once you know what it is you want to do you will
have to go where that climbing is. Without doubt you know where Lurking
Fear is. You will have to spend some time there. Quick trips will not do
the trick. I would be surprised if you don’t make it by this time next year.
General
1. The crowd. There are going to be a lot of people and distractions. If
you have your own good program going and you can feel yourself getting
stronger each week you will have your own compass built into your brain.
You will be traveling in the direction it is pointing. You will have increasing
confidence, your attitude will be founded on a smile, and you will be
serene amidst all of the noise.
2. Not to do. There are always things one should not do – for one reason
or another. You have to decide where you are going and how you intend
to get there. You have to travel according to your own lights.
Nearly forty years ago I faced just such a choice in the East. We were
using hard iron pitons and it was terribly clear every piton I placed to get
something I wanted – was destroying what would be needed by all the
people in future generations. We were destroying the rock itself.
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ChrisW
Trad climber
boulder, co
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Aug 11, 2008 - 12:21pm PT
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Stupid Goal.....
Learn How to climb first. That's a goal.
And then Decide if climbing Lurking Fear would be fun or not.
Or u are not doing it for fun? Then Hire a Guide.
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Lambone
Ice climber
Ashland, Or
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Aug 11, 2008 - 12:28pm PT
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I taught my friend how to Trad climb and we did Tripple Direct three months later.
Don't do LF...go up the middle.
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno, CA
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Aug 11, 2008 - 12:39pm PT
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Kupandamingi: You can add to your list, for Jack O; cried (sobbed, bawled, etc.) like a baby cause he was so scared.
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Russ Walling
Social climber
Nutsonthechin, Wisconsin
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Aug 11, 2008 - 12:43pm PT
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pimp daddy wayne
climber
The Bat Caves
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Aug 11, 2008 - 12:44pm PT
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If you smoke lots of weed it will help you. Acid also helps with fear....
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Todd Gordon
Trad climber
Joshua Tree, Cal
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Aug 11, 2008 - 12:54pm PT
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Step one;...start climbing your ass off;.....when you are ready for Lurking Fear, you will know it....might be in a year, might be 2 years, might be never. If you want to see what happens when people try El Cap and are not ready for it....just walk over to the base at any given time, and watch what happens;...it's not always pretty. Good luck. I climbed El Cap after I had been leading maybe 5 years.....I climbed about 150-200 days a year then, and travels extensively........you up for it, then go for it....but have your ducks in a row before pushing off.
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Billy
climber
Boston, Ma
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 11, 2008 - 12:59pm PT
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jstan, awesome AWESOME post, which I will being this afternoon at my gym. I run intervals now and have worked pull-ups into my routine, so the validation there is great. Rope climbing will be making an appearance as well. Informational and Inspirational. Thank you.
Roman, haven't made it anywhere yet, but I will definitely be hitting you up for route advice and locations, etc. My good fortune to find someone local!
Weed and acid are out of the question, but I appreciate the advice. I'm sure it works.
A few things I need to define. Aid*- Technically, I don't know what this means. Jugging*- complete mystery. Leading a pitch*- this is Greek. And I took Greek. And I still don't get it.
Pictures of Jack Osbourne are inspirational. I like the kid and all, but those are just hilarious. They make me train harder.
The reason I chose climbing as my goal in the first place is the juxtaposition of mental and physical power required to conquer a mountain. This will definitely be a huge challenge for me, and the information that I have received in just the last 12 hours has been helpful. Anything else that anyone has will help.
-Billy
P.S. Thanks, Fattrad. Hopefully won't need it, but I'll take you up on it. Can't be too careful.
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malabarista
Trad climber
San Francisco, Ca
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Aug 11, 2008 - 12:59pm PT
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Well, I went from zero to Zodiac in about a year. You just have to be obsessed and have a certain amount of natural coordination and fitness. Then again, I had the extreme benefit of learning aid from Ammon. And besides that I basically followed Chris's advice in the old Road to the Nose guide and read articles on the forums to clarify things I didn't understand.
I don't think it's a good idea to say you want to do this in a year. You're putting too much emphasis on one route. Lurking Fear itself probably isn't a big deal once you are prepared. There are so many intermediate steps that are just as satisfying and they are important to make sure you are ready if you plan on leading it yourself. I was just as stoked after my first valley grade IV for instance, East Butt of Middle. Or after climbing Fairview Dome etc etc
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Kupandamingi
Trad climber
Berkeley
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Aug 11, 2008 - 01:11pm PT
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True enough - the video of Osborn reveals a sobbing, whining and scared shitless kid up there, but the important thing is he kept going. As a poster above noted, we are all scared up there - I certainly was and plan to be in the future. The question, then, is can you climb and function up there while being scared?
Also agree with another poster about going up the middle. If this is your one shot at el capitan, you'll forever regret having gone up the shoulder. Ive also done triple D and enjoyed it far more than lurking fear (perhaps because I pulled my own weight on that). Hoping to get on tangerine trip this year to round out the easiest possible combination of climbs that ascend all sides - all part of my Shield avoidance strategy.
Mark Miller - hope to see you out climbing soon, clearly from your description of my climbing abilities youve forgotten what a gutless and weak climber I am!
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TwistedCrank
climber
Ideeho
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Aug 11, 2008 - 01:12pm PT
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But what if you don't like trad? A goal is not worth seeking unless you enjoy the quest.
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Billy
climber
Boston, Ma
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 11, 2008 - 01:16pm PT
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Your point is very well taken, although I do appreciate a goal for a goal's sake.
I like the idea of Lurking Fear, but I am not married to it. I'm married to El Cap, but if there are better suggestions, that's cool. But it definitely needs to be challenging. Not looking to hike.
Intermediate steps will be taken during the next 14 months. And I'm hoping that they will be everything you described.
-Billy
P.S. Trad*? Heh. Sorry. Still not up on lingo.
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Rhodo-Router
Gym climber
Otto, NC
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Aug 11, 2008 - 01:19pm PT
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Look man, if this is your primary goal for the next 14 months, it's absolutely possible. However, given your level of experience, the possibility only exists if you make it your first priority.
Pulling on gear is not that complicated, but it does demand a certain level of familiarity with the gear and the medium. You will need to acquire many different skills, most of which build on one another, in short succession. Having an appropriate mentor for this will make things dramatically better. Unfortunately, you live in Boston. At least it's (sort of) close to Conway, which bears the nearest resemblance to big granite of the El Cap sort. Without a mentor, you will need to be an accomplished autodidact, which few people are. Second best would be to transform some acquaintance into a committed partner with the strength of your passion, with whom you then learn everything together. Training is way easier with support.
Every time you perform a procedure up there for the first time in your life, you increase the likelihood of failure- either through basic incompetence, or sheer logistical overload. The water/food/endurance clock is always ticking while you're on the wall, and you don't want to burn it up while flailing. So make sure to practice every little thing somewhere close to the ground, and make all the basic mistakes in a noncritical context.
Living and breathing rock climbing is not the worst way to spend a portion of your time on earth, and one which has gripped most of the folks on this forum for some time or other. A year spent in training for this goal will not be a wasted one, regardless of the 'outcome'. Have fun, stay safe, pay attention. Good luck!
*'Trad' (hoboy) is a word invented to distinguish traditional, ground-up, gear-protected climbing from the kind where you follow a line of closely spaced bolts. Climbing walls pretty much defines a trad sort of outlook, in terms of commitment, self-reliance, type of climbing, deprivation and suffering.
Oh yeah.
Wall climbing hurts.
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno, CA
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Aug 11, 2008 - 01:42pm PT
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Kupandamingi: Or, as it were, it was explained to him that the only way off was up...
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Billy
climber
Boston, Ma
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 11, 2008 - 02:04pm PT
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Yeah, I just saw a video of someone climbing Lurking Fear. That was...humbling.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8746975685502853820&hl=en
Very sick. Kind of what I pictured...in that "It can't possibly THIS bad" way that you picture stuff. Like getting caught by a bear, or sleeping with Rosie O'Donnel. (I said SLEEPING. Nothing happened. I mean he seems like a nice guy and all, but still...)
So I will be working out and having nightmares for 14 months. No biggie.
Any course of faces in Conway to hit that would prepare someone for something like this?
-Billy
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Bee
climber
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Aug 11, 2008 - 02:09pm PT
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Billy –
Do you really want to be a good climber, or do you just want to be able to claim that you climbed something hard?
Do you really LIKE climbing?
All this advice about what to buy and what to climb first is pretty beside the point. You have to put in the time to become a decent climber. The amount of time varies from person to person -- and your construction of 'decent' will certainly change over time. If you cannot enjoy yourself while you’re at it, savor the beautiful moments, the overcoming, getting shut-down on ridiculous routes, the friends you make, the great lines...just don’t bother. It’s a lot of work, too. Even if you are very talented.
Does it really matter if it takes you one year or twenty to achieve something big?
And if you DO want to be a good climber, don't overlook anything that can help you -- the gym, coaching, guiding, books, old-school mentors, new-school mentors, mental therapy, physical therapy, coffee.... ; ^ )
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno, CA
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Aug 11, 2008 - 02:14pm PT
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If, after having a year to prepare, you're really suffering on LF, Billy... Well, you're doing something wrong and should probably retire. LF isn't that difficult.
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Billy
climber
Boston, Ma
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 11, 2008 - 02:36pm PT
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See? Nefarius, THATS what I want to hear.
I'm not sure if I like climbing yet. (I'm not experienced.) But LF would be a great way to find out, right?
That sounds so stupid.
This will definitely be a journey. I'm not plannign on doing push-ups every morning for 14 months and then hitting the rock. That would be stupid.
But I definitely need help/guidance/etc. for this to work, and I'll probably be using this Forum as sort of a diary for this trip. So stay tuned.
-Billy
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno, CA
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Aug 11, 2008 - 02:39pm PT
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Others have given great advice here, Billy. If you listen to it (you can tell the serious from the silly), are serious about your goal and put in time on the rocks, you can climb LF in a year, no prob. Your fear of heights will work itself out as you climb bigger things in preparation for your El Cap adventure.
PS - the silly posts are also preparing you for the part of climbing called "shit talking"... Almost a must-have skill....
Cheers!
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Roger Breedlove
climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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Aug 11, 2008 - 02:54pm PT
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Billy, in the "Lurking Fear" video, did you notice how slow everything moved and how much gear there is to keep organized? There is even a shot of a belayer poking fun of how slow the leader is--the leader barely moves in the whole scene.
Besides the climbing skills and the training, you need to find a way to practice moving efficiently around all the gear. You don't need high cliffs to practice this, just steep rock, small stances, and lots of stuff.
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jstan
climber
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Aug 11, 2008 - 03:37pm PT
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One thing becomes clear when you consider all the responses you are getting. All these people feel the time when they were learning to climb was one of the best times in their life. They loved it. Some of this comes out as the noise which I mentioned. Based upon the fact you are already working hard, I think you too are finding it exhilarating.
Now Roger mentioned the need for speed, which is certainly accurate. A caution though. Speed only when you have spent a lot of time, as he suggests, working out how to do things safely. An unexpectedly high number of very experienced climbers run into trouble on rappel. Rappels have very little redundancy and so perhaps give a view of true levels of danger unmoderated by equipment. Looking at those, I feel making the tradeoff between rapid upward progress and uneventful upward progress remains a difficult gray area at all levels of experience. Indeed there are those who feel this is, today, one of the most interesting climbing parameters.
It is going to be exciting, you will have change week by week, and you will find every effort spent well rewarded, as you do things you would have never thought possible. Then when it is all done and behind you, you will remember all of those people you would never otherwise have gotten to know so well.
Look back on this thirty or forty years from now. I think you will find this pretty well summarizes it.
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Stanley Hassinger
climber
Eastern US
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Aug 11, 2008 - 04:09pm PT
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I did exactly what you're trying to do. Here's the brief story:
I started climbing a little here and there in the Fall of 2001. I went and belayed friends and seconded some routes. I was climbing maybe 5.7/5.8 at best. Then I started leading really easy stuff in late Fall of 2002. I got up to where I lead my first ever 5.9 by May of 2003. It was a super easy 5.9 and very short. Around that time my brother showed me how to aid climb. I lead two aid pitches and cleaned two aid pitches. That was the extent of my aid training, and I had only been leading for about 7 months at that point.
Later during that summer (2003), without having any more training, I did four walls in Yosemite: Tangerine Trip, Zodiac, West Face of Leaning Tower (in a day), and Southeast Face of Washington Column (in a day). It was great. One of the best summers of my life.
So it can definitely be done, but you've gotta have good judgment. The most important thing is knowing when you're ready (or that you're not ready yet).
It's certainly a worthy goal to shoot for. Go for it! But be sure you get in with someone who really knows their stuff or the whole project is doomed to fail. That's the best advice I've got. It makes all the difference in the world when you're starting out to have someone with you to answer questions and remind you how to do this or that.
I would recommend doing one of the easier routes on Washington Column or Leaning Tower to start out with. That way you can see how you like it and whether you're ready. Plus, those routes are lots of fun.
Good luck!
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno, CA
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Aug 11, 2008 - 04:13pm PT
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Speed will come with your practice/experience. It will come with you getting your systems down and learning not to waste time at belays, as that is where time is lost. Trying to be speedy or go fast isn't really the point. Being efficient is.
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Standing Strong
Trad climber
almost all the way home
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Aug 11, 2008 - 04:19pm PT
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"P.S. What is a troll? What is trolling? Help out with this?"
okay NOW you've overdone it and given yourself away. done.
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billygoat
climber
3hrs to El Cap Meadow, 1.25hrs Pinns, 42min Castle
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Aug 11, 2008 - 06:47pm PT
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Standing--
Yeah, I thought that was confirmation too, but then I checked my email and the dude sent me a message asking the same question and asking for help. I'm not sure anymore. If he is a troll, he's gone overboard. Maybe we have a RAJMIT reincarnation, but a good one if it is.
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno, CA
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Aug 11, 2008 - 07:01pm PT
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"Hey Nefarius,
You and I, NIAD next year?"
The way things are going this year, that'd be a neat trick, Jeff... Haven't been doing much climbing this year. NIAD seems so far away right now... *sniffle*
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dogtown
climber
Where I once was,I think?
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Aug 11, 2008 - 07:41pm PT
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Billy;
You want to do this in good style so read, climb and if you can get yourself a good mentor / partner. But most importantly climb, climb, climb,
El Cap. Was a long term goal for me when I started climbing.The road to the nose for me was seven years of climbing or bouldering almost everyday.I'm sure alot of people have done it in a shorter amount of time.But thats what it took me.
PS. Please do not go outside and kill yourself.
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marky
climber
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Aug 11, 2008 - 07:48pm PT
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it's not as if the government hands out licenses to climb it
just get on it. It either will make sense or it won't. Too many schemers these days, too few doers.
Be a doer!!!1111
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WBraun
climber
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Aug 11, 2008 - 08:33pm PT
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Hahahaha You all have been OWNED by the Billy boy ....
Hahahaha
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billygoat
climber
3hrs to El Cap Meadow, 1.25hrs Pinns, 42min Castle
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Aug 11, 2008 - 09:21pm PT
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Now, now, Werner. Don't laugh too hard. Afterall, you might need to pencil in a body recovery for next October.
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tolman_paul
Trad climber
Anchorage, AK
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Aug 11, 2008 - 09:31pm PT
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Assuming this isn't an rc.com troll, I'd say that's great that you have a really ambitious goal. It's those goals and dreams that fire us up and push us.
I'd also say that you don't have enough knowledge about climbing to realize how much you need to learn and the skills you need to gain before venturing up an El Cap route. It's akin to saying you've been out twice on a bicycle with training wheels, you watched the Tour de France and would like to ride it. It's not impossible, but will be a heck of a challenge.
I'd say most importantly don't get hung up on being able to do that route in a year. It's not impossible to gain sufficient skills and experience in that time, it's just highly improbable. I'd say a more realistic goal would be to travel to Yosemite in a year and get up some of the longer moderate routes such as the regular route on Fairview Dome, or even the Nutcracker, or the Dike Route.
Just moving from the gym, where you don't have to find a route and holds to real rock, and from top rope to lead is a big jump, and takes most folks a year. Being able to place gear on lead, set up anchors, moving smoothly on long routes typically takes folks a few years.
If you lived in or near Yosemite and had a pile of willing expernienced partners to tutor you, were climbing several times a week your goal might be attainable. But after two trips to the climbing gym, well, you've got a long way to go.
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Social climber
valley center, ca
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Aug 11, 2008 - 09:55pm PT
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Just re read the entire thread. I agree with WBraun and SS. Troll material. Billy does alot of back pedaling. Questions don't always ring true.
I appreciate all the great answers, however. I really learned alot. lrl
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Roger Breedlove
climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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Aug 11, 2008 - 10:43pm PT
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Yeah, so Billy sounds like a troll. So what.
The question is still valid. I answered it assuming that Billy was trolling and that 1000 lurkers were waiting for the answer. Who wouldn't want to climb from zero to 'Lurking Fear' in 14 months? Besides it has a poetry of its own given that Phil climbed it "off-the-couch."
Some great advice, except from John--way too hard!
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Kupandamingi
Trad climber
Berkeley
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Aug 11, 2008 - 10:52pm PT
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wow - yeah that guy in the Lurking Fear video posted was moving incredibly slow (belayer looks at watch and pretends to fall asleep)........oh crap, that was a video of me leading!
As to whether Billy exists, isn't there a little Billy in all of us (cue sentimental music).
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Standing Strong
Trad climber
almost all the way home
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Aug 11, 2008 - 11:11pm PT
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rileh tell us what you REALLY think
p.s. call meh!
kupandamingeh - nice e africa quote and good song for your video!!!
are you sure billy isn't just a troll identity you've picked up to show us all your video
(kidding)
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billygoat
climber
3hrs to El Cap Meadow, 1.25hrs Pinns, 42min Castle
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Aug 11, 2008 - 11:24pm PT
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It's pretty funny that I called troll 40 some odd posts before Wener, but almost none of you hopped on the troll-wagon until he did. You're all billys. Oh, wait, I am too...
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billygoat
climber
3hrs to El Cap Meadow, 1.25hrs Pinns, 42min Castle
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Aug 11, 2008 - 11:44pm PT
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Riley. One, it's a little late to make that claim. Two:
"Why even bother feeding the idiot with a post??"
Stop being a hypocrite.
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Dr. Rock
Ice climber
Castle Rock
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Aug 12, 2008 - 12:08am PT
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How come you guys sent me to rockclimbing.com and this guy, who wants to go from two gym visits to El Cap, did I read that correctly?
Well, he gets all this advice, WTF, over?
At least I am getting my sandstone ticks done.
I like you, Betty.
But there is something called a Gradient.
You learn on a Gradient, that is, you start at the bottom, and slowly start to travel up the ramp.
You get down everything on the way up down pat.
If you skip a step, you come back down the ramp a bit and back track til you flatten it out.
Then you continue back up the ramp.
The steepness of the ramp is determined by what you are learning.
If it's Rock Climbing, you want that ramp to be almost horizontal.
Why?
Because in this sport, you have to be perfect, or it's See Ya At Sears.
Baby Steps are the way to go. You could be a Krauk or a Sharma or Potter, but not at 25.
Your ramp is inclined at about 90 degrees.
Bring it back down to about ten degrees and enjoy life along the way.
I don't know, Jtsan, these quads left over from the bicycle seem to come in handy on the cliff.
I mean, my legs hurt after a good climb.
No wait a minute, that was just the hideous hike into Eagle Peak.
Hey Jtsan, I have a couple of Aeronautical Engineers from Nasa (isn't the internet wonderful!) coming over to visit the Ti thread, and yes, for once, I am not joking.
Could you do me a favor and clean up that math you did?
There is a slight error in your subtraction, I get 30 instead of 26, thanks!
I usually don't correct people on trivial crap, but these guys are heavyweights.
They have 23 rules for submitting post to their forum!
No mizpelled words,
No this, no that, sheesh!
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno, CA
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Aug 12, 2008 - 12:49am PT
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"Who wouldn't want to climb from zero to 'Lurking Fear' in 14 months?"
I don't think it's that big a deal, really... It's super easy aid, which is about the easiest climbing there is, honestly. It's a short route, low angle, etc... I'd say his chances of doing LF in 14 months, versus something like climbing the Rostrum or Astroman, free in the time, are significantly higher.
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salad
climber
Escondido
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Aug 12, 2008 - 12:51am PT
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i got my ass kicked on that route.
anyone wanna go climbing???
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno, CA
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Aug 12, 2008 - 01:00am PT
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I'm just sayin...
I was a face climber of a few years and did my first walls with no instruction or mentoring at all. Read about it, bought some gear, ran some laps for a few hours on a local aid boulder (mainly practiced hauling and jugging for a couple of hours) and went for it. Got tired of aid, started climbing trad... Easy aid is, well, easy. LF was easy aid.
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ricardo-sf
Sport climber
San Francisco
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Aug 12, 2008 - 03:54am PT
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:-) -- ok i'll bite ..
Dude -- going from 0 to climbing El Cap in a year is totally doable .. in fact i think you can go room 0 to soloing el cap in a year ..
.. read stuff, get in shape, try stuff, get help, and have a good head on your shoulders, and with a little luck you'll be alive next christmas ..
i went from first stepping into a gym to leading outdoors in 3 months, and then to soloing el cap 12 months after my first outdoor lead .. i had 1 mentor and didn't meet that guy face-to-face until 1 week before my ascent .. --
.. set a goal and go for it.
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Billy
climber
Boston, Ma
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 12, 2008 - 09:46am PT
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First, I want to thank everyone for all the advice that I've received since posting this the other night. This has been enlightening, inspiring, and a little scary.
So I went to the gym last night with El Cap (learning lingo) in mind. 4.5 miles on the elliptical in 30 minutes on Level 7. It was tough. Try it before you laugh! At my weight it was 400 calories. (6'1" 220 lbs.) Dinner consisted of a salad with grilled chicken. Then I got hungry watching Intervention (this chick was inhaling electronic duster. HILARIOUS!) and had some Broc with egg whites. Not a burger, but not bad.
I talked to a buddy of mine about the trip (Bobby) and he said he's in. He's been a climber for about a year now and his reaction was JUST about the same as the reaction that I have gotten here. Possible, but very very tough.
Lastly. Please, PLEASE someone just explain to me what a troll is, what constitutes trolling, and how my questions sound like it. I'm really new to message boards in general, and even more of a novice with climbing, so I don't really know what I'm being accused of here. Not that I care what people think of me, but I don't want this "label" to hinder my ability to garner knowledge about this trip.
That being said, jstan and Lynne and a bunch of others have been so helpful so far that this absolutely seems possible to me. I will keep you all (who care) posted on how things go in the gym, AND when I get out to climb, hopefully this weekend. Bobby has some gear and I am trying to get out to this place in Western or Central Mass. Purgatory Chasm, I think it's called. Psyched.
Thanks Everyone!
-Billy
P.S. If my correct spelling and grammar make me seem like some sort of fake post or whatever, sorry. This is just the way I type. Email me if you think I'm not for real.
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Billy
climber
Boston, Ma
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 12, 2008 - 09:53am PT
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Found the term "trolling" on Google. I am not trying to "incite an enflamed discussion." In fact, judging from the definition, there is nothing trollish about it. I'm sorry if people here find this project/goal outrageous or laffable. Don't waste your time on it, I guess. I am just trying to get information on this. If you think I'm trolling, you're entitled to your opinion. Please keep it to yourself, though? Makes it harder for me to read through the real responses.
Thanks,
-Billy
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Roger Breedlove
climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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Aug 12, 2008 - 10:16am PT
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The definition of a troll is broader than the one you quoted. Probably the best definition is someone who manipulates a conversation in a way that the other party feels 'taken' or tricked. It can be intended in good humor or anti-social, but it usually pisses people off.
If I take you at your word, the reason that some of us think you are trolling is that you are asking a very naive set of questions. Imagine if you were to decide to take up golf and post on a web site frequented by experienced players past and present asking how you could enter the PGA in the next year or so.
As it turns out, you have been given excellent real advice from very accomplished climbers. If you like what you hear from the positive responses, it is best to just ignore the stuff you don't like. My guess is that if you pull this off and keep the ST Campers up to date, you will find that everyone will be supportive. Everyone starts somewhere.
On the other hand, if you are trolling, you will be ignored in favor of more accomplished trolls.
BTW, what did you weigh when you were in great shape?
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Billy
climber
Boston, Ma
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 12, 2008 - 11:13am PT
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fattrad - Sick. Thanks.
Roger - Thank you for finally explaining it to me. I will keep people posted with mundane details to shake the trolling stigma.
I weighed between 197 and 205 at 6'1" and I was really muscular at the time.
-Billy
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Dr. Rock
Ice climber
Castle Rock
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Aug 12, 2008 - 11:30am PT
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I like you, Danny, but what are you going to do after that?
I mean, you will be ready for your next sport, right?
What's left to prove?
Cool, if you want to knock stuff off, Climb El Cap, Ski Everest, Wingsuit the Grand Canyon, Kayak the Mauna Loa lava flow, base jump from Mars...
Ahh, I got it, you just watched The Bucket List!
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Billy
climber
Boston, Ma
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 12, 2008 - 11:52am PT
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No Bucket List. Only 25. Mars wouldn't really be "base" jumping, though...
It's true, I am asking naive questions, and I apologize for that. I also understand that this sounds ridiculous to seasoned climbers, and that certainly makes me nervous about the entire endeavour. I don't really know why I chose to do this, but I made the decision and now I have 14 months to make it happen. If I don't, it goes into the failure column. I'm not sure what will happen if I do.
So, sorry for the naivety. I realize it arouses frustration in some of you, suspicion in others. I'm Googling this stuff as fast as i can, but any suggestions that I can work into my plan for the next 14 months will (hopefully) drag me up Lurking Fear.
Thanks.
-Billy
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno, CA
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Aug 12, 2008 - 12:07pm PT
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So... Go out and get yourself a copy of "Big Walls", by John Long and John Middendorf. Read it, take it to the crag and practice hauling, jugging, etc. Lurking Fear is a clean wall, but relies on fixed gear to remain so. Learn to place heads and have a few with you on your ascent in case one blows.
Also, no one else has said it yet, so I will - Hit rockclimbing.com and read the stuff from passthepitonspete (ptpp). He's written a ton of stuff that has helped many a wall climber on their first wall. Ricardo-sf, for example. Pete was his online mentor, if you will. The key is to learn these systems close to the ground, before you blast off.
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jstan
climber
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Aug 12, 2008 - 12:51pm PT
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Oh, there is no trolling stigma at all. Eighty percent of us saw the questions were real and your goal is achievable. The other twenty percent just love trolls so they are always looking for them. A talented troll can be great fun. I doubt there is anyone on ST who has yet to encounter a spitball from the back of the class.
Perhaps I need to repeat one thing I mentioned. To accomplish your goal you have to spend some time in the Valley. You need to spend time on that rock.
Edited OT stuff
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Standing Strong
Trad climber
almost all the way home
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Aug 12, 2008 - 12:58pm PT
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awww nef is joining the crew in the meadows too? i am bummed i'm missing out on that trip. but, i gotta keep workin' out here for awhile longer!
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ricardo-sf
Sport climber
San Francisco
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Aug 12, 2008 - 01:31pm PT
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billy ..
I think there may be better choices for first big walls that Lurking Fear on El Cap ..
My suggestion is Tangerine Trip ..
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Roger Breedlove
climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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Aug 12, 2008 - 01:42pm PT
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Hey Ricardo,
I have not climbed either Lurking Fear or Tangerine Trip, so can you expalin your opinion?
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GDavis
Trad climber
SoCal
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Aug 12, 2008 - 01:59pm PT
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"What's left to prove?
Cool, if you want to knock stuff off, Climb El Cap, Ski Everest, Wingsuit the Grand Canyon, Kayak the Mauna Loa lava flow, base jump from Mars..."
... talk sh!t anonymously on Supertopo....
 to LF in a year is bitchin', don't take away from that because you have no goals in life.
-Greg
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ricardo-sf
Sport climber
San Francisco
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Aug 12, 2008 - 01:59pm PT
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i have not climbed Lurking Fear .. -- so i may be off ..
but i've read a few folks talking about the bad hauling .. --
for a first wall, you'll be hauling a ton of stuff since you'll probably be slow ..
.. TT - is way overhanging and the hauling is easy .. no pitch on tangerine trip is dangerous, and its still easy aid .. -- and the final pitches on TT go way fast ..
so my vote for easiest way up el cal goes to TT .. only bummer is that there is no ledges along the way ..
so you'll need to have decent belay organization skills ..
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GDavis
Trad climber
SoCal
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Aug 12, 2008 - 02:01pm PT
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Ricardo
Why not the Zod over TT? Less bolt ladders, but also less mandatory free and better ledges. Just a thought, I have climbed neither.
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Standing Strong
Trad climber
almost all the way home
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Aug 12, 2008 - 02:01pm PT
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GDavis, let's climb el cap tomorrow.
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Roger Breedlove
climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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Aug 12, 2008 - 02:12pm PT
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Thanks. Boils down to the gear hassle.
The big points of discussion we had 35-40 years ago for first El Cap climbs were the aid difficulty versus mandatory free.
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Rhodo-Router
Gym climber
Otto, NC
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Aug 12, 2008 - 02:34pm PT
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Billy-
If you actually spend a year in pursuit of this goal,
and you attempt an El Cap route yet do not top out,
I doubt you'll feel like your efforts belong in the 'failure column.'
More like the "learning column."
Rob
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GDavis
Trad climber
SoCal
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Aug 12, 2008 - 02:52pm PT
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Appearantly there is some 5.7R. Even a full year of climbing may not get one comfortable enough with that kind of climbing at that exposure. Yikes!
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ricardo-sf
Sport climber
San Francisco
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Aug 12, 2008 - 04:32pm PT
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GDavis ..
.. zodiac post cleanup is a harder route than TT ..
there are 3 pitches with mandatory free on TT .. they are the highlight of the route (well .. the free moves on the pitch before last is a highlight of the route)
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Sascha
climber
Sebastopol, CA
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Aug 12, 2008 - 05:34pm PT
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Billy, this thread has been very entertaining - trolling or no.
The thing that concerns me much more about your plan than getting in physical shape and learning the body mechanics of climbing and aid climbing is developing the skill of placing protection in the rock. You know - nuts and cams, or other pieces of metal that you manage to attach to the rock in improbable ways so that when you clip a carabiner to them and hang your weight on them they STAY?
If you were content to just have someone else (a good friend or guide) lead the route and you follow by ascending the rope (jugging), no problem.
But if you're going to take turns leading, then you have to be able to look at the rock, look down at the gear you're carrying with you, and decide what's going to fit where. Then you have to stuff the piece in there so that it stays in place, and judge how likely it is to stay if you fall on it. You can test it to see if it will hold your bodyweight, but if you lose your balance and fall, the force on your protection will be greater and it could come out of the rock. Obviously, you'll want to avoid the situation where a bunch of your protection rips out (seen that Sharp End trailer?), you fall a long way, get all banged up and unconscious, and then you have to take advantage of that free rescue.
So, you have you learn to read the granite and see how it will accommodate protection. You can learn some of this by climbing in places other than Yosemite, but each type of rock is different, and being able to place a cam in sandstone, for example, doesn't help you find a good stopper placement in granite.
Then you've also got to take into account that you don't want to carry a hundred pounds worth of gear, so you have to be able to strategize about which pieces to use where. It really sucks when you look down on your gear sling and find that you've used up all the pieces that would fit in your present location.
Did we mention routefinding? Where you're looking up and wondering, jeez, am I supposed to go left or right around this bulge here? After 20 years of climbing, I'm still capable of really embarrassing routefinding errors. So, when you realize that, oh f***, I've just gone the wrong way, duh - you've got to be able to problem-solve and figure out how to retrace your steps, downclimb or whatever, safely, to salvage the situation.
So, my advice is to spend as much time as possible looking at Yosemite granite, reading routes and placing gear.
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Dr. Rock
Ice climber
Castle Rock
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Aug 12, 2008 - 07:25pm PT
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If you really wanna pull this off, your gonna need to get juiced.
Let me know if you need help in that Dept.
I got Bonds all set up with Doctor Feelgood, no body wants him now, but he has the record, so what the Hay?
Or, just snort a gram of good meth and do the thing free solo, like all real men.
Ropes, sheesh.
What a bunch of lightweights.
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Captain...or Skully
Big Wall climber
Yonder (in the sagebrush)
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Aug 12, 2008 - 07:28pm PT
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Just do it & shut up already.....
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Kupandamingi
Trad climber
Berkeley
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Aug 12, 2008 - 11:00pm PT
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Ricardo is right in the sense that the hauling even well before thanksgiving ledge on Lurking Fear is laborious and the final slabs go on for ever. However, the exposure drastically reduces by the second day at a reasonable pace (once around the corner) so that it probrably is less scary than TT. Triple D may be even easier as the apron allows you to warm up to the idea of being up there (TT steep from the get go and Lurking Fear somewhat as well). Lets face it - Im living proof that anyone can work hard and climb the thing, but there is no "easy" way up el cap (maybe east buttress if if 'counts').
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jiimmy
Boulder climber
san diego
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Aug 13, 2008 - 02:36pm PT
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Did that ages ago and all I remember is horrid hauling. Pick another route. Enjoy life
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno, CA
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Aug 13, 2008 - 02:40pm PT
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Sounds like you guys took too much crap! Lighten the load. Climb a little faster. If not, suck it up. Hauling is part of walls.
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Dr. Rock
Ice climber
Castle Rock
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Aug 13, 2008 - 02:51pm PT
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Why climb walls anyway?
You may as well work for PG&E and get paid for all that hard work.
Or be a Tree Doctor if you like "hanging out".
Walls are not climbing.
After they have been licked, it's best to move on to some real gymnastics.
Walls, sheesh.
You may as well rig the Trapeze for the circus.
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno, CA
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Aug 13, 2008 - 03:46pm PT
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I'll buy that as soon as you free climb a route on El Cap... Or, even yet, an easy wall. Say, Leaning Tower?
...
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Billy
climber
Boston, Ma
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 13, 2008 - 03:52pm PT
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You guys absolutely rock.
So, Sascha, you hit the nail directly on the head. My biggest concern is learning to set hardware and stuff so that I won't fall and kill myself or Bobby. Getting in shape should be managable, and I think I'm pretty comfortable in what to bring with me as far as water, food, etc. Wondering about the bathroom situation, though... Paper bags and empty Gatorade bottles?
So two nights in the gym - Elliptical as described before. Broccoli and egg whites twice a day, oatmeal once (breakfast) and grilled chicken breast and veggies (either Broc or "I eats me Spinach") for dinner. Water all day. Feel like I've lost two to three already.
Smoking MIGHT have to go, but we'll see. Any smokers climb El Cap?
I am trying to budget my gear purchases appropriately. After shoes and rope, how should I buy this stuff as I start climbing small stuff, and get bigger and bigger? Also, how late into the year can I climb. I'll look like an idiot in November in Boston climbing a rock...right?
Again, I can't thank everyone enough for their help and support so far. Day three. Off to the gym in a couple of hours...
-Billy
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Jingy
Social climber
Flatland, Ca
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Aug 13, 2008 - 03:57pm PT
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Troll!!!?
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Sascha
climber
Sebastopol, CA
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Aug 13, 2008 - 04:05pm PT
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Speaking of hitting the nail - you'll need to learn how to use a hammer, too... As far as I know, Lurking Fear goes hammerless with fixed gear, but you may not want to count on that.
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno, CA
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Aug 13, 2008 - 05:10pm PT
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"Smoking MIGHT have to go, but we'll see. Any smokers climb El Cap?"
A really high percentage of wall climbers smoke. As well, they drink... a lot.
Big wall climbing isn't so much about fitness as it is hard work, problem solving and keeping your head. If you can do those things you'll be pretty damn fit by the time you finish. Not that being fit, to begin with, won't be a tremendous asset.
Someone should start a big wall diet; 4-5 days on The Captain, carrying loads, etc. you're guaranteed to lose 15lbs or more.
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Sascha
climber
Sebastopol, CA
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Aug 13, 2008 - 05:21pm PT
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So, will you let us in on this Bobby and his climbing resume?
The two of you sure sound like a great pair of fictional comedic characters: Billy and Bobby go climb a big wall! And have a smoke! Cool Runnings! (Cheech & Chong??)
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Roger Breedlove
climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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Aug 13, 2008 - 05:37pm PT
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However it turns out, it should be fun to follow along. Billy stated up-thread that he might write a book--this starts to make sense if that is his trade.
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nb3000
Social climber
Oakland, CA.
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Aug 13, 2008 - 07:23pm PT
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Billy your failure to mention anything regarding suggestions to hire a guide still leaves us believing you are pulling our chain.
I mean it seems like that would be the logical conclusion if you are in fact NOT a troll and had really thought this out.
Nick
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billygoat
climber
3hrs to El Cap Meadow, 1.25hrs Pinns, 42min Castle
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Aug 13, 2008 - 07:29pm PT
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I hate to change my opinion, but I've received two seemingly honest emails from this guy now. I pretty sure this isn't a troll. Try giving him good advice rather than BS. He's going to need it.
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nb3000
Social climber
Oakland, CA.
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Aug 13, 2008 - 07:30pm PT
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how many kids in their 20's, especially students, can afford to buy ALL the gear neccessary, AND travel out from Boston - in the space of 1 year?
its probably going to cost ($-wise) roughly the same and hiring a guide would ensure success.
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Rhodo-Router
Gym climber
Otto, NC
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Aug 13, 2008 - 08:08pm PT
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Hiring a guide ensures being guided, which doesn't meet everyone's criteria for 'success'.
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nb3000
Social climber
Oakland, CA.
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Aug 13, 2008 - 09:23pm PT
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maybe it would fit Billy's criteria. maybe not.
lets hear his take
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Billy
climber
Boston, Ma
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 14, 2008 - 01:57pm PT
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Okay,
Hiring a guide, besides (I assume) being financially restrictive, would defeat the purpose a little bit for me. It would be safer and probably make more sense, but I feel like if I have someone capable of dragging me up the wall, then they may as well have. This is kind of a personal challenge for me (and is turning into one for everyone who has already helped so much on this site) and I feel like the more of this I can do alone, the more it will satisfy whatever need is dragging me into it in the first place.
t*r hit the nail on the head, I think.
The entire trip will be expensive, but I have already started saving up, and I think I can get some decent gear for an okay price. Anything that I can compromise on and not die?
Bobby has been wall climbing for about a year, primarily top-roping. We've been friends for a couple of years, and he climbs walls regularly (just quarries and things like that.) Not much of a resume I guess, but his enthusiasm for challenge matches my own, most of the time. He's also good at keeping me on track.
So, back to the diet and the gym.
Not sick of egg whites yet. Or brocolli. And I have lost two pounds. Feel like I am losing muscle mass, though. I can afford a bit, as I was a weight lifter before this idea struck me, but still...
Lower back hurts a little bit, but I'm starting to work some pull-ups and dips into the workout AFTER the cardio stuff (still the elliptical.) I'm worried now about overtraining and the injuries that come from that, but as things hurt I usually rest them.
What should I be buying first for gear? Can I drop a couple hundred and get started anywhere?
Sorry for the delay. Work has been a bear.
billygoat - I appreciate the faith. And the help!
Getting back to climbing El Cap "alone" as I said earlier in this post: To everyone else who has helped out already - I may not hire a guide, but Bobby and I certainly will not be hitting the top of El Cap alone. Without everyone that has helped, I'd be even MORE screwed than I may be already. Thanks.
-Billy
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nutjob
Stoked OW climber
San Jose, CA
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Aug 14, 2008 - 02:02pm PT
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Bobby has been wall climbing for about a year, primarily top-roping.
Who sets the top-rope anchors on his wall climbs?
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno, CA
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Aug 14, 2008 - 02:03pm PT
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"Feel like I am losing muscle mass, though."
Billy, incorporate some Tuna into that diet. That'll take care of the protein you need to prevent your body from going into shock and eating your muscle mass instead of the fat.
Also, if you are training hard, remember you need to feed your body, in general. Training hard and dieting don't really go hand in hand. The harder you work, the more fuel your body needs. Eat healthy and balanced meals and you'll be fine.
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John Moosie
climber
Beautiful California
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Aug 14, 2008 - 02:13pm PT
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You don't even know if you like climbing. Hire a guide at one of your local crags to take you climbing and see if you like it. This will do many MANY things for you. It will help you understand what gear you will need. It will start teaching you the basics. It will help you know more about what you are getting into.
Except for a harness and shoes, buying gear before you have even been on the rock is silly. Go climb. Take pictures, then report back here and if you find the grove and like it based on experience rather then some romantic notion, then there are lots of people who will be more willing to help.
Go to local climbing gym or climbing store and find a local guide. A good guide will cost you from 100 to 200 for a day. This is well worth it as you will learn a lot. Plus if you find you don't like it, then you wont have wasted a bunch of money on gear.
I say go for it, but dang dude, at least try it before you make some grandiose plan based on romantic notions. Climbers love grand plans, but they realize that these plans need to have a dose of reality to them. Now go climb something. Preferably multi pitch. And report back here with pictures.
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Billy
climber
Boston, Ma
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 14, 2008 - 02:15pm PT
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Nefarius - Yeah, the focus so far has been to drop weight. (Salads, oatmeal, etc.) I guess some tuna or skim milk wouldn't hurt me.
nutjob - He is friends with "real" climbers, or he goes to gyms.
How the hell do I size these shoes? I measured my foot and it was 31 centimeters long, but I wear a 10 1/2 normally, and there is a 45 on the inside of my dress shoes...
Also, can I spend less than $100 on shoes?
John - Trying to go this weekend. Will report back with pictures.
-Billy
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Fat Dad
Trad climber
Los Angeles, CA
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Aug 14, 2008 - 02:19pm PT
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Haven't bothered to read the prior 123 responses, but...
TROLL!
Why are you people wasting your time?
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up2top
Big Wall climber
Phoenix, AZ
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Aug 14, 2008 - 02:27pm PT
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Your goal is certainly possible, but the learning curve will be steep and painful if you stick to the proposed time frame. The problem is, a "painful" lesson learned in climbing can cost you dearly. Possibly your life. Most people just suffer mercilessly for their n00bage in terms of learning aid systems, hauling, anchor set up, etc., but if there's one place you could really screw the pooch and do something terminally stupid like run your rope over a sharp edge, it's while trying to rush the process of learning big wall skills.
Don't be surprised as you work toward this goal that the more you learn, the more you realize you have A LOT to learn. Don't let pride get in the way of making a good decision to recognize you're biting off more than you can chew, if it comes to that.
Sheer stubbornness and a willingness to suffer has gotten me to the top of a few walls (but it has yet to get me to the top of El Cap). It may be the same for you, and the higher your tolerance for suffering, the greater your chance of success.
Good luck and keep us posted. It should be entertaining.
Ed
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Billy
climber
Boston, Ma
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 14, 2008 - 02:59pm PT
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Up2top - Yeah, my tolernace for abuse is pretty decent, but I am finding out that this is more than limping across the finish line. It is way more dangerous than that, it seems. The first three or four posts I got concerned death. Mine, specifically. I thought about setting a date or a test to determine whether I will be prepared to fly out to Cali, but haven't cemented that yet.
How do I size shoes? I wanted ot buy a pair before my climb this weekend. Purgatory Chasm, here we come.
-Billy
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Roman
Trad climber
Boston
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Aug 14, 2008 - 03:11pm PT
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Man goto f*#king REI and try on some damn shoes. Save more important questions for these guys. BTW, how old are you?
Enjoy purgatory. I take it you will be top roping out there? Goto Quincy and get strong.
-
The Tough Love Department
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Billy
climber
Boston, Ma
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 14, 2008 - 03:14pm PT
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Bobby climbs in Quincy a lot. Maybe that would be a better choice.
I'm 25. It's in the first post.
Right. REI. It was a stupid question, belying an even stupider decision to buy shoes online. My bad.
Bobby does go to the Quarries quite a bit. I think we'll hit that up instead. Or, depending on weather, (God forbid) a climbing gym.
Appreciate the tough love.
-Billy
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Roman
Trad climber
Boston
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Aug 14, 2008 - 03:17pm PT
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Quincy grades are sandbagged to sh#t so you will get strong there. Top ropes are a breeze to set up there as well and would probably save you guys a bit of time on the setup side of things and get you climbing a little more.
Are you a student? EMS gives local students like 15% off with a student ID.
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billygoat
climber
3hrs to El Cap Meadow, 1.25hrs Pinns, 42min Castle
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Aug 14, 2008 - 03:18pm PT
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Roman just gave you some of the worst advice yet. The chances that someone working at REI will know how to size climbing shoes are slim. I wouldn't trust ANYTHING and REI employee says, as they tend to give inconsistent and often outright wrong advice.
Climbing shoes need to be snug, but not painful. Most likely, your big toe will be curled and your other toes will be slightly bent. In general, you shouldn't have any wiggle room. Also, you need to size shoes based on their material. Shoes made from synthetic leather will stretch far less than real leather (as will shoes with a cloth liner). I would recommend spending less than 100 on your first pair, as your sloppy novice footwork will probably wear out any pair of shoes real fast. Evolve offers some well made (in the USA) introductory shoes in the 70 or 80 dollar range (haven't looked at the prices recently, but I don't think they've gone up much). Ignore all the hype about high performance and what not, just get whatever fits your foot well but tight. If it's leather, get it about a size tighter than you want. If it's synthetic, get it about 1/2 to 1/4 size tighter that you want.
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Billy
climber
Boston, Ma
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 14, 2008 - 03:23pm PT
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Okay, then. Revision.
I will try/buy the shoes from a real store, not from the internet. If I am not to trust the REI people, though, who can I trust OR what kind of guidance could you give me to make the shoe thing happen?
-Billy
P.S. Not a student anymore. Or yet. Going back. Graduating is important, I've found. Not just enough to go for a couple years. UMASS Boston, baby. Here I come.
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billygoat
climber
3hrs to El Cap Meadow, 1.25hrs Pinns, 42min Castle
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Aug 14, 2008 - 03:27pm PT
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I'm not saying don't buy at REI, just don't go there for "expert" advice, as you're likely not to get any. I don't know what kind of mountaineering shops there are around Boston, but if there's one with a long-standing reputation that would probably be the place.
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Roman
Trad climber
Boston
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Aug 14, 2008 - 03:28pm PT
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Billygoat who needs to ask advice when trying on shoes? I expected a bit more of a do it yourself mentality around here I guess.
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno, CA
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Aug 14, 2008 - 03:44pm PT
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Troll or not, it really doesn't matter, as someone else said above; other people can learn from this thread maybe.
I know you guys are trying to express the seriousness of the endeavor to the guy, but seriously... Some of you guys are making this sound like a close to impossible task. NOT. If he gets out and climbs every weekend, supplementing with workouts during the week, he'll have all of the basic rope skills and definitely be fit enough to do a wall in a few short months. As far as placing gear, if he's doing trad during those months, he'll be more than ready. Climbing aid pitches will certainly expound on his gear knowledge/experience MUCH faster than if he were out wanking around on 5.7's all year. Same with everything else.
The best way to learn hauling is to get out and do it. Same with jugging. Same with placements. Just f*#king go do it. Whether it's 23 pitches or 2 pitches. This is not some impossible task, and it's not Reticent Wall. No matter how much preparation you do, the only way it will all click and you will get good with the systems and gain experience is to get up there and do it.
Of course, this is all up to you and who you are. Some people feel like they need to prepare and learn systems for years and go through some mysterious initiation to climb a wall, others just go do it. Usually the guys who just go do it have a higher success rate. So, a year and two months? If you're serious, NO problem. If you're serious, you could do it in a few months no problem. If you are one of those people who wants to spend the next year reading, seeking training, advice, etc... You'll never get off the ground dude.
Use Ricardo as an example, not people preaching doom and gloom.
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billygoat
climber
3hrs to El Cap Meadow, 1.25hrs Pinns, 42min Castle
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Aug 14, 2008 - 03:56pm PT
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Roman, I used to work in a climbing shop. You'd be surprised how many people need advice when buying climbing shoes--especially their first pair. And while the DIY mentality goes for a lot of the old timers around here, when a newbee signs on and asks for advice on how to get started, you'd best do more than send him to REI.
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ricardo-sf
Sport climber
San Francisco
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Aug 14, 2008 - 04:00pm PT
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hehe ..
nefarious is right ..
this is not an impossible task and a few folks have proven that .. you dont need to learn how to haul before you leave the ground .. you dont need to learn how to nail before you leave the ground .. -- i learned all that stuff on the job -- .. i wouldn't recommend it .. but it can be done .. (you need to be fairly sure that you can do it though) ..
.. now .. as far as costs .. you will need (it gets cheaper if you can borrow .. but if you can't then you will need to buy) ..
An AID rack .. depending on the route, an average aid rack is twice as large as a free rack. (give or take) ..
2 sets of cams
2 sets of hybrids
at least 50 carabiners (plus racking biners)
hooks
hammer
runners
rope (you will need 2 of them, 1 to climb 1 to haul)
2 sets of nuts
2 sets of micronuts
grigri
aiders
daisies (adj, or not? -- depends on your taste)
jumars
some sort of hauling device (do you need a 2 to 1?) ..
depending on the route, you may need to add/remove pieces (lurking fear probably means a smaller rack) -- but its your first wall, and i dont see you making good use of a rack on your first wall (ie: backcleaning, etc) -- so more gear is safer.
then you will need to put all this stuff in a bag
1 or 2 haulbags depending on how much beer you bring
.. can you sleep on ledges on lurking fear? -- if you do TT you'll definately need a portaledge .. (buy fish!)
then you will need outdoor gear for the wall
sleeping bag (no down)
do you need a bivy bag?
stove
stuff sacks
first aid kit (at least some stuff to take care of your hands on the wall)
poop tube (you can make your own for fairly cheap from home depot)
finally you're going to need food and water
1 gallon per person per day is luxurious -- but if it gets hot, you will wish you had more
3 meals per day per person
snacks
.. and we haven't even considered the tunes yet.
.. hmm .. if you dont have this stuff already .. figure on spending about
$3000 to $5000 depending on wether you buy new/used high/low quality ..
.. some airfare, and the cost of being in the park (getting to the park), etc .. -- add on another $2000
for comparison .. i already had some gear, but i spent about $3000 on gear + food + other costs for my first ascent on el cap .. the next few ascents cost me about $1000 for gear + stuff (food/camping/gas/etc) per ascent .. (you need replace stuff that breaks, gets hosed) ..
(it can be done alot cheaper -- but i'm spoiled)
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Billy
climber
Boston, Ma
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 14, 2008 - 04:52pm PT
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ricardo - Awesome. Truly awesome. You have given me horus worth of stuff to Google. I don't know what a lot of those things are, but I will find out.
3-5 is doable in the next year or so. I don't make a ton of dough, but if I budget properly, I should be good to go.
Facinated by the poop-shoot apparatus...
I'll check out REI. Just to look. I heard that the shoes should be as tight as they can be, i.e. as much pain as you can stand. This seems...odd to me, but I guess I could cram into something tiny.
-Billy
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno, CA
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Aug 14, 2008 - 05:10pm PT
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I'm not even recommending how you or I learned, Ricardo, which was the same. By all means, go out, get familiar with the systems on some junk crack 20 feet off the ground. Go a few times. But if you spend all your time preparing and reading, waiting for the right time, etc... You're never going to get off the ground and getting off the ground is the only place where you really learn.
edit: Handjammies?!?! :O
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ricardo-sf
Sport climber
San Francisco
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Aug 14, 2008 - 05:24pm PT
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as far as shoes are concerned .. well .. it depends on your taste too, and how hard you want to crank ..
I've had some super tight fit slippers .. and i hated them ..
.. my favorite shoe is a comfortable Mythos pair .. -- i size them 1 size smaller than my regular street shoe (or 1 1/2 .. i can't rememebr) -- ..
.. anyways those shoes rock -- you can wear them all day long .. they rock in trad situations ... and you are not trying to take them off at every belay because your foot is about to explode ..
.. btw .. the mythos are worth every penny ..
 ricardo
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Sascha
climber
Sebastopol, CA
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Aug 14, 2008 - 05:26pm PT
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Your climbing shoes should NOT be so tight that they hurt. That's for people who climb HARD things. Your shoes just need to be tight enough that your toes don't move around inside them and you can stand on a reasonably small edge. Go to REI and ask for a basic beginner shoe - preferably a solid, straightforward trad climbing shoe. Or try a slipper like the Moccasym. Once they stretch, you can wear them with socks - it may look dorky, but works for many people. I can wear my comfy trad shoes (5.10 Spires) with Smartwool socks for a whole day without taking them off and they don't hurt.
But by the way, you won't be wearing your climbing shoes for most of Lurking Fear anyway, because you'll be stepping into nylon loops, not onto the rock. For that, you want your approach shoes...
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ricardo-sf
Sport climber
San Francisco
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Aug 14, 2008 - 05:30pm PT
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To get started here is a list of things to buy:
For the gym..
all you need is shoes / harness / chalk bag / belay device .. you'll spend about $250
For outside topropping
you'll need a rope, some webbing, some biners, some lockers, (assumes you use bolts for anchors), you'll spend about $300 (maybe less since its a topropping rope .. you can go with a cheaper rope.
For outside leading
you'll need a free rack, maybe a better harness than that POS you bought for the gym.
about $1250 for a new rack of shiny BD's and some aliens, some stoppers, a gear sling, some biners, some lockers, a webolette or a some other belay building device.
To start practicing aid
I attempted to start praciticing aid on my free rack -- bad idea.. not enough gear to do more than a 80' pitch .. you need more gear -- so borrow some..
You'll also need, jumars, aiders, daisies, hammer (to get the nuts out), -- maybe you'll also get an aid harness (one of those big cushy numbers from yates) ..
About $500 in gear (unless you go and get a 2nd free rack, then add on another $1250) ..
.. when you actually get around to thinking about a wall .. get some decent hiking boots .. you soles will thank you after hours of standing on slings .. -- cheap boots will last you 1 ascent (i destroyed a pair on a single wall once) -- decent boots will last several ascents..
.. some stuff is just fine to buy used (portaledge, haulbag, sleeping bag, etc ..) --some stuff you need to be careful when buying used .. (ie: protection)
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scuffy b
climber
Elmertown
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Aug 14, 2008 - 09:44pm PT
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but where could I get one if I did?
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Roman
Trad climber
Boston
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Aug 14, 2008 - 09:46pm PT
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It's taken me 3 years to get to the valley and be able to lead things on my own. Maybe it's because I had to teach myself everything. Maybe I'm just slow as piss. Your mileage may vary billy.
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billygoat
climber
3hrs to El Cap Meadow, 1.25hrs Pinns, 42min Castle
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Aug 14, 2008 - 11:38pm PT
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Maybe it's because you go to REI instead of a shop where someone can sell you good gear attached to great advice.
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Sascha
climber
Sebastopol, CA
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Aug 15, 2008 - 12:08am PT
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Now about that getting in shape thing... do you do any other sports? I think your overall fitness and endurance is most important, so you don't bonk after a couple of hours on the climb. Running, cycling, walking, rowing, climbing gym, whatever - mix it up, but get your body accustomed to being on the move all day.
I just met a lady on Mt Conness who said she thought she was all prepared to do a long climb (they were doing the North Ridge) because she's a marathon runner. Wrong-o. On the descent trail, she was nearly in tears: "I've been moving for NINE HOURS!!" Get used to it.
Do some LONG hikes with a backpack and be aware of your water & food needs. Learn to drink before you're thirsty and eat before you're hungry. If you suddenly find yourself with a really bad attitude in the middle of your workout, chances are you haven't had enough to eat or drink.
Make your haulbag one of your first investments. Throw a bunch of phone books or water bottles in there and get on the stairmaster... Better yet, take it to do all your shopping on foot.
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ryanb
climber
Seattle, WA
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Aug 15, 2008 - 01:28am PT
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EAT SOME F*#KING CARBS!!!
High protean diets work by forcing your body into an unhealthy state where it begins to digest itself. They might work for short term weight loss but sap your energy over time. Your goal should be to train your body to perform at a high level for large amounts of time. The only way to do this is to push to the point of exhaustion as often as you can stand. Weight loss will happen on its own, you need fuel.
Bike commute. Run stairs. Never take elevators. When its too wet to climb go for 15-30 mile hikes. Wake up early and try for 10+ pitch (one rope length of climbing more or less) days. Eat like an athlete not some sedentary diet-fad crazed fool. Give your body good fuel, complex carbs, lean protean, even some fat as you push it past its current limits and it will develop more strength then you thought possible.
Sell your TV. If you go to bed an hour early you can train for an hour in the morning.
Get the book "How to Rock Climb" by john long and the big wall book mentioned above (by John Long and John Midendorf).
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jstan
climber
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Aug 15, 2008 - 02:41am PT
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Take care that this does not turn into an internet exercise. I have not been to Quincy so this is a blind suggestion. To start pick things well within your ability and try to cover lots of distance. The quarry walls are short so you and Bob may trade off in heats and even do many repeats if a lot of routes don't have ropes on them. Climb up. down climb, climb up, down climb etc, etc, etc. No stops for rest. Being adept at downclimbing is good, occasionally necessary. Go till you are burned out, then switch roles. If Quincy is too crowded for this to be possible you may have to find another place.
Shoes you plan to use with ets should be comfortable and with good arch support. They may be your free climbing shoes, they may not. If the free climbing is run out 5.7 you will need to be good in your shoes. To get used to running out do easy slabs and them work into harder ones. Again, cover ground. Lots of ground. Up, down, sideways, does not matter. Does not matter whether or not it is a route. Indeed you will need to be able to deal with traversing which is a game different from up/down. When you can move on the rock, you have found a new home.
People were into tight shoes like EB's many years ago and I have seen a lot of people with ruined feet. FWIW having painful feet never got me up anything. My suggestion is get a pair with velcro closure that feel entirely comfortable when loose while wearing thin dacron hiking socks. (Some people go without socks so that is another option.) Have space at the end so the ends of your toes are not touching. They must not touch. (Pare down your toenails beforehand.) Then insist on their feeling very tight when you tighten up the velcro. Then to make sure they are not too small change to a pair of thicker socks and insist on still being able to get into the shoes without painful pressure on the ends of the toes.
If you have a rope, free shoes, slings, and biners, on top rope you can have gotten used to covering a lot of ground by the time you find someone to teach you leading. Then when you and Bob are leading you can go back to covering ground again. You probably won't "be covering ground" on 5.10 but leading competently at that level should be in your game plan.
At that point you need to get on Yosemite rock. Plan on starting all over again, for that is what it will be like.
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Aug 15, 2008 - 10:53am PT
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151 posts -
What is the longest Jeff Batten troll here on Supertopo?
151 posts seems like a pretty good haul to me.
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Billy
climber
Boston, Ma
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 15, 2008 - 12:19pm PT
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No haul. No troll. But we addresses that above. No biggie.
Anyway, didn't get to the gym last night. No lack of commitment, just worked a 14 hour day. Did manage the salad, brocolli and egg whites again, though.
Carbs definitely need to make an appearance. I'm dragging at work and in the gym. Had a bagel this morning with the eggs. Feel great. Did not weight myself. Probably won't til Monday. More concerned with developing the necessary technical skills to make it up the face, though.
I'm buying shoes, and possibly a harness this weekend. I also need a rope, but I may wait on that for a week or two. I think I can use Bobby's.
Speaking of Bobby - He's down for the trip, but he may be in Maryland this weekend, which will hinder my trip to Quincy Quarries. (No rope.) Can I climb there without? (Roman, I'm looking at you for this one.)
jstan - Daps. Thank you again, sir.
-Billy
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jstan
climber
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Aug 15, 2008 - 12:29pm PT
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Long days are like that. Doing sets of exercise every hour or two keeps you going.
My longest was 48 hours. Took that long for the crystal to grow. Knew I wouldn't be able to sleep so I ran a couple miles in the snow. Did the trick.
Edit:
Watch out on Cannon. In the past at least, before the Old Man fell off, some pretty big stuff was loose.
Jeff:
I was hoping you would ask. Those routes are both dangerous and very hard. But if you can do three one finger front levers with either arm, you should be OK. Especially if you can then push them out into a one finger German.
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ryanb
climber
Seattle, WA
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Aug 15, 2008 - 01:30pm PT
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Traversing (on real rock or at the gym) is a good way to get millage in without a partner. You just climb back and forth close enough to the ground that you feel comfortable jumping down when you need to. Find ways you can rest and shake out your arms on the wall but strive to develop a constant level of "pump" (forearm exertion for non climbers i guess?) over the course of 15-20 minutes on the wall. Set a goal in minutes, if you get too pumped and need to jump down before your time is up jump back on the wall. When you are done, rest for half the time you were on the wall then repeat a few more times (usually ~3 total for after work, maybe more on the weekend).
Music helps, i did this a few times a week for a few months one winter and worked up to being able to do three one hour traverses on the gym wall.
This will help you develop the technique and endurance needed to do lots of moderate climbing, if you get interested in climbing harder you will need to start training power and power endurance but don't worry about those for now.
Combine endurance workouts with climbing (biking to the climbing gym, climbing until your arms are tired then going running or just going climbing somewhere that requires a bit of hiking to get too) or finding other ways to work out more then once in a day may be helpful in speeding things up.
Eat carbs before during and after workouts. Light snacks like healthy granola bars, various energy goos and trail mix work well for me. "Alpinists" on long pushes will often try and eat a packet of goo ever half hour or so. Drinking water is important too.
Let fitness be your goal not weight loss, measure your self by how long you can spend on the wall, how far you can run etc...
Spend as much time on granite as you can, there is nothing else quite like it, plastic doesen't even come close. ( i think cannon and cathedral are granite?)
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ryanb
climber
Seattle, WA
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Aug 17, 2008 - 03:14pm PT
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http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7562840.stm
Food for fuel: Olympian Phelps' unusual diet (10,000 calories on a training day)
Eat more, train more. Once you get into the cycle its easier to keep it going then to let it drop off. But give your self time to recover when you need it. I've got a bad cold at the moment and am forcing myself to sit still for several consecutive days for the first time in months...going vaguely stir crazy.
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Billy
climber
Boston, Ma
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 18, 2008 - 08:35am PT
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coz - love the attitude. I'me not a world-class anything right now, but definitely makes the idea more than possible.
Sorry there haven't been any updates this weekend. I didn't make it out to climb, nor did I make it to the gym. Very disappointing weekend. I blame myself for the waste of time, and I need to really stop effin around and get serious. Real disappointed in myself. Just wanted to explain my absence a little bit.
Anyway, hopefully the next post will be better news.
Thanks guys.
-Billy
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Roman
Trad climber
Boston
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Aug 18, 2008 - 09:10am PT
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Billygoat said: "Maybe it's because you go to REI instead of a shop where someone can sell you good gear attached to great advice."
I'm sure it's where I shop bro. Totally. I can't wait to get to my locally owned climbing shop and get a nice set of "Climb EZ's" so that I can fly my 195 lbs ass up a big wall with as much free as possible... Sorry bro but some things take time and I am a competitive oly. weightlifter and have to train 5 days / wk 2 hours / day. Thanks for the shitty comment though!
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Billy
climber
Boston, Ma
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 18, 2008 - 01:54pm PT
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This is so weird.
I'm having an awful day, incidentally. I'm really beating myself for this wasted weekend. Feel pretty fat and useless. And when I look at pictures of El Cap now, I just feel dread looking at it. Like it's a big dude who's going to come beat me up. Before I was scared, excited, a little dizzy.
Now I just feel like it's for other people. Like it's impossible. Totally sucks. Hoping the gym erases this feeling tonight. We'll see.
Geh. I sound like such a girl! (Sorry, girls.)
Peace.
-Billy
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Roman
Trad climber
Boston
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Aug 18, 2008 - 02:22pm PT
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Keep your head up dude.
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Rhodo-Router
Gym climber
Otto, NC
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Aug 18, 2008 - 02:53pm PT
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Learning to work through that feeling is one of the most valuable skills for getting up big-ass chunks of rock.
As well as a pretty handy life skill in general.
Today's free, unsolicited advice:
Find a tree. Hang from it. Learn to haul stuff.
cheers Billy=
Rob
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Oakville, Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Aug 18, 2008 - 03:46pm PT
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Hmmmmmmm. There are inconsistencies in his posts that suggest he's trolling, for instance his alleged unfamiliarity with really basic stuff. The fact that he can spell and write coherently certainly suggests he's smart, and you do need to be smart to climb a big wall. He could well be a troll. But if he's trolling, he genuinely needs to get a life because he has invested way too much effort in it.
I'm thinking he's probably legit, though. His responses are suggestive of a Young Bull who believes he wants something, but his responses suggest he is too lazy to seek out the answers himself [for example, what aid climbing is] so he asks here. If you want to succeed on a big wall, you have to be willing to do the work yourself.
Got any frequent flyer points, Billy? Perhaps we could come to some sort of arrangement. Much less expensive than buying all your own gear to climb a big wall on El Cap, which is a staggering investment. Plus your success and safety is more strongly assured, though there is always ample opportunity to end up dead, which is no fun.
Incidentally, every angler knows that "trolling" is a fishing term, and has nothing to do with little men who live under bridges. To troll is to drag an artificial lure through the water, and to see which fish are attracted to it. The fish that bite become hooked. I could even be one of them.
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jstan
climber
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Aug 18, 2008 - 03:52pm PT
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pfft
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Billy
climber
Boston, Ma
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 18, 2008 - 04:04pm PT
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I am familiar with the term "trolling" in fishing. I eventually Googled the term as it applies to web forums, and found out what it meant.
I aked about basic terms on the forum rather than Googling, because when a person tells you something, you get a lot of lateral information that you can't get from a definition on a website. Also, the interactions that I have been a part of (and witnessed) in the forum have taught me a lot about the people who climb and climbing culture.
Lazy? That hurts. And I definitely have a life...
But your point is well taken. I could do more research on my own, I guess.
Sorry to rant. It's been an awful day so far.
-Billy
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Oakville, Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Aug 18, 2008 - 04:10pm PT
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All right, then. Shut up and climb.
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ryanb
climber
Seattle, WA
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Aug 18, 2008 - 08:36pm PT
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Dude you got it. Just got to stop worrying about the big picture and keep putting one foot in front of the other.
Try and get to the climbing gym/crag ~3 times in the next week. This sport is addicting and its easier to stay motivated once your hooked.
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Roger Breedlove
climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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Aug 18, 2008 - 08:44pm PT
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Hey, Billy,
A couple of folks have noted that with a big goal like "Lurking Fear" it easy to get put off. Tomorrow is always a new day. All of us have had bad days and sometimes they have too big of an influence on longer-term goals. Nevertheless, part of what you will get out of following through with this is developing discipline-that is part of the skill that is needed to get up “Lurking Fear.”
And please, keep posting. I think it is cool that you decided to climb El Cap with nothing more than a sense of adventure. We all respect that. I hope that you are keeping a good diary--with your ease of writing and easy manner, it will make a great story.
All the best, Roger
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Lynne Leichtfuss
Social climber
valley center, ca
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Aug 18, 2008 - 11:10pm PT
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Billy,
If you really are in earnest then you CAN make your dream happen, despite your up and down feelings.
I know because I DID. If I did it anyone can. (Middle aged female here)
I had a serious...horrific life changing event @ 8 months ago. About 4 months after the event decided to channel my energy into rock climbing.
And it is Happening. Rock climbing is going great and so loving it. .... Thanks to friends who have taken me out on the rock and alot of work and focus on my part.
You don't know what you can do til you Focus and Try. If a Life Goal comes to your inner being go with it no matter how crazy it may seem at times.
All the well meaning posts to you are superior, Billy. Want you to know that Roger Breedlove was one of the first posts to me when I joined Super Topo @ January. He was a major contributor to helping me deal with my loss and encouraging me onto a new life and challenges.
Sincerely, Lynne
ps Listen to the good stuff, Billy, and DO IT.
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Dr. Rock
Ice climber
Castle Rock
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Aug 19, 2008 - 03:49am PT
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I like you, Billy.
I'm gonna give you a little advice.
There's a force in the Universe that makes things happen.
And all you have to do is get in touch with it.
Find your Center.
Hear nothing...
Feel nothing...
Stop thinking...
And be...the rope.
Just relax...
Picture it...
Turn off all the sound...
And let it happen.
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Billy
climber
Boston, Ma
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 19, 2008 - 11:40am PT
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You guys rock.
Get it?
Hit the gym so hard this morning, it hit back. Feel WAY better. It was tough because I didn't eat much yesterday. (No, I'm not manorexic, I was just wicked busy at work.) So I had a marked lack of energy, but pushed it on the elliptical.
Going trail running this weekend at Blue Hills, and then climbing in Quincy (hopefully.) And I need to buy some gear at some point. The stuff's on sale.
Not keeping a diary up to this point. I have been using this so far, really, but I think it's a great idea. 1) So that I can write things down that I don't want the whole internet knowing, and 2) So that I can stop bothering you guys with my "Had a bad day" nonsense.
To speak to that, though, I really appreciate everything that you guys wrote and said yesterday. It wasn't all Hallmark card bullsh#t, but genuine experience talking. It seems everyone has felt like garbage while planning something like this, and the only ones who are still here are the ones who pulled through. (Or in my case, were pulled through by others.)
So thanks again. Hopefully no one will be hauling me up the rock like you guys hauled me to my feet yesterday.
Down to 216, though. Six pounds since I started, so something is going right. That's six more pounds of stuff I can carry up with me now, right?
-Billy
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Roman
Trad climber
Boston
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Aug 19, 2008 - 11:50am PT
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Billy climbing aside I can probably help you get in shape quickly. I am 195 and about ....
hmmm something happened to the end of my post.....
edit: heres the rest
12% bodyfat. I train at http://www.crossfitboston.com
check it out and feel free to email with questions. Climbing as a larger man is a different bag of tricks but can totally be done.
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno, CA
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Aug 19, 2008 - 12:39pm PT
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Coz said - "Zero to El Cap is not so hard, really.
Free climbing El Cap, may take a life time of dedication, but yarding up on gear takes about a day to teach, a day or two to hone."
`Bout f*#king time someone else starts telling it straight to this kid! What's the deal with you bunch of wankers beating up on him and doing your best to discourage him?! Seriously, the only thing that made it anywhere near as difficult as some of you guys made out to be was yourselves. As I said before, aid climbing is easy and "0 to LF in 14 months" is f*#king cake. Coz said it tons better than I did tho!
I can't believe half the crap, err total sh#t, you guys are handing this kid. He doesn't need to become a trad master, doesn't need cross training, etc. Aid is learning systems and getting on the rock, plain and simple. You guys act like he's trying for NIAD or something... Sheesh!
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WBraun
climber
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Aug 19, 2008 - 12:56pm PT
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Billy boy needs to post a real photo of himself on this thread so that we can see what we're really dealing with here.
Will you do it Billy? (Photo of yourself)
Otherwise we have no real clue to who and what you are.
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Roman
Trad climber
Boston
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Aug 19, 2008 - 01:26pm PT
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t*r while I dont fully agree that this is the issue here the concept of toxic people is surely a real and valid one.
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Roger Breedlove
climber
Cleveland Heights, Ohio
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Aug 19, 2008 - 01:27pm PT
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Hey Werner,
Are you implying that William can become the Billy he aspires to only if we can see him?
There must be a Greek antecedent to this story line of gods controlling the fate of mortals.
Areté rules; hubris dies.
Hee he, Buzz
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Russ Walling
Social climber
Nutsonthechin, Wisconsin
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Aug 19, 2008 - 03:54pm PT
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(thread_drift)
Hey T*R /SS
I thought you were getting a trampstamp and joining the SeaBees or something?
(/thread_drift)
Billy..... seriously ....... YER GONNA DIE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!111111 But if you don't.... tons of guys have done ElCap with less experience than you are looking at.... what's the worst that can happen? GO FOR IT!!!!11111
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Dr. Rock
Ice climber
Castle Rock
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Aug 19, 2008 - 06:02pm PT
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Billy, you won't die, your body might be laying on a boulder pile with toothpick like objects sticking out of it every 4 inches, and coyotes need food too, but your Spirit will live on forever.
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ricardo-sf
Sport climber
San Francisco
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Aug 19, 2008 - 06:04pm PT
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dude -- you i know who billy is ..
he's Epic Ed's little brother! ..
:-) ..
hey billy .. you should contact Dr. Piton .. since having a wall doctor will increase your chances of success .. haha ..
.. some folks here may question Dr. Piton's credentials .. but i'll tell you that my success on my first ascent was partially due to Dr. Piton's help ..
he helped me in a few critical parts
1 - hauling
he made a 2-1 hauling ratchet -- without that i would have had a tough time on pitch 1
2 - cleaning
he made me a ghetto foot stirrup out of 3 old pieces of webbing.. that stirrup made it so i could clean with a jumar + grigri .. which if you are a noob, may be the safer was to clean.
.. the stirrup was ghetto, but it has seen 3 ascents of el cap .. and its still going strong. in fact it worked better than the metolious adjustable stirrup that i bought..
3 - leading setup
out of the original dr. piton setup i've abandoned everything except for the idea of using an adjustable fifi .. -- but still, his ideas got me up my first wall.
4 - general big wall advice ..
it helps to have someone to get some tidbits of advice from .. the best one was:
"When you're hungry eat, when you're thirsty drinnk ... worst thing you can do on a wall is bonk!" ..
---------
:-) .. oh lord ..
hehe ..
.. for whatever's worth, getting a more accomplished climber to at least share a few emails back and forth with is gold .. -- if you can pay them to teach you a few tricks thats even better ..
i bet if you bring along that pig-tailed hottie along dr piton would gladly provide his services for gratis...
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno, CA
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Aug 19, 2008 - 06:16pm PT
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I'm having a hard time not telling my "What do you call a blonde with pigtails?" joke right now...
:)
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ricardo-sf
Sport climber
San Francisco
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Aug 19, 2008 - 06:21pm PT
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do tell nefarious..
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Billy
climber
Boston, Ma
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 19, 2008 - 07:10pm PT
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I don't want to blow up your spot Nefarius, but for the record...I know this one. And it's true. On that lobster night.
-Billy
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno, CA
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Aug 19, 2008 - 07:23pm PT
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Good on ya, Billy. :) You're half way there already. You have a sense of humor and can take a joke... :)
Since ricardo hasn't heard yet - BJ with handlebars. :)
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ricardo-sf
Sport climber
San Francisco
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Aug 19, 2008 - 07:26pm PT
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i knew it had to have something to do with handlebars! -- i've heard a slight variation of that one ..
.. yah -- i like billy already ..
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno, CA
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Aug 19, 2008 - 07:29pm PT
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Well, billy is kinda no fun at all, really... He's not like the 25 year-olds at the local gym who are so incredibly easy to get all riled up.
And if I were you, Billy. I'd keep the hottie away from Pete! No matter how much info he offers!
ricardo - yeah, it's kind of an old one. :)
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Mighty Hiker
Social climber
Vancouver, B.C.
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Aug 19, 2008 - 07:41pm PT
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I know someone who started climbing early one year, and by October he'd climbed the Nose of El Cap. He was 15, and did a lot of climbing that year - 1976. The information, techniques and equipment are a lot better now. No climbing schools then, either - you just went and did it.
If you have the fire inside, you can do it.
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ricardo-sf
Sport climber
San Francisco
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Aug 19, 2008 - 07:57pm PT
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i dont think you can compare a valley-rat with a weekend warrior like billy ..
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Terry
climber
Spokane
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Aug 20, 2008 - 11:28am PT
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What a great post - troll or not. It has elicited some great advice. The hardest part for you, Billy, considering your experience, is discerning whats great advice and whats not.
Only experience is gonna let you know.
What I love (and it seems the same for many others) is that it reminds me of myself 30+ years ago. I visited Devil's Tower at 7 yrs old on a family vacation. I was absolutely entranced as I watched what my Dad called Nutjobs climbing the tower. Then and there I decided that I would one day climb that thing. 20 years later I returned with three friends and accomplished that dream.
Right after returning from that trip, while looking at a poster sized Topo of Half Dome in my friends living room, we decided that we would climb Half Dome. Three years later that we did it. Then we set the Nose as our goal. I never thought that one would come to pass. Four years later not only did I climb it but during the climb I met Steve Gerberding, Hans Florine and Ammon McNeely, all in different parties. Pretty cool to meet guys I'd only read about on a climb I'd only dreamed about.
That's not 0 to LF but it does go to show that dreams can come true if you work hard and are dedicated to making it happen.
You've been given lots of great advice but the one thing no one seems to have said is the mental commitment level required. NOTHING will prepare you for the sheer size of El Cap - pictures don't do it justice. Perhaps this will be no big deal for you but it was by far and away the hardest part for me. Its not so much the height but the magnitude of the commitment. Standing at the base knowing I'm headed into a wilderness of rock with no easy way of escape was very mentally challenging for me. I've always said that 90% of climbing is mental, the other 50% is physical.
If people have suggestions on how to deal with that aspect of a Grade V or VI climb I'd love to hear it.
I hope that the first part of my post was encouraging enough to overcome this discouraging part because the worst advice you will receive is to not chase after your dreams.
Go for it and enjoy the journey.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Oakville, Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Aug 20, 2008 - 11:40am PT
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"You've been given lots of great advice but the one thing no one seems to have said is the mental commitment level required. NOTHING will prepare you for the sheer size of El Cap - pictures don't do it justice... ...Standing at the base knowing I'm headed into a wilderness of rock with no easy way of escape was very mentally challenging for me."
When first standing at the base of El Capitan, the Big Wall Aspirant's bollocks shrivel in terror.
Voice of Dirty Harry: "How badly do ya want it, Punk?"
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Billy
climber
Boston, Ma
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 20, 2008 - 12:59pm PT
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Weekend warrior is so COLD...and apt.
I do work full time, so climbing is tougher for me I guess. Plus the weather out here turns nasty in late October, so it will be even tougher.
I had been concentrating on the physical side of climbing for four days, but now I'm thinking (with all the talk of classes and books and guides and stuff) that this might be mentally taxing as well. So, I decided not to go back to school until I learn the necessary skills to get to the top of El Cap. Might seem like an odd decision, and again, I'm not sure why I'm making it, but it seems like a good idea - at the time.
Do people just live in the valley and climb all the time, or do people have jobs?
I want it bad, punk. BUT the bollocks will definitely shrivel.
The mental commitment is where I am most likely to fail. Need to stay obsessed, I guess.
-Billy
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corcoran
climber
Eugene, OR
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Aug 20, 2008 - 01:56pm PT
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I love this thread. I created an account just to post in it!
My claim: considering that...
1. You are out of shape.
2. You are starting from square 1, with respect to climbing training and instruction.
3. You're working full time.
...this is impossible. But, hey: f*#k the nay-sayers! It's certainly an entertaining endeavor, if nothing else.
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Roman
Trad climber
Boston
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Aug 20, 2008 - 01:59pm PT
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Quitting school is a fantastic idea Billy!
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Oakville, Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Aug 20, 2008 - 02:14pm PT
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It's not about your bollocks not shrivelling, because this is certain. Rather it is about facing down your fears.
You should carefully scrutinize the resumes of people on this thread offering you advice, to ensure that they have actually climbed El Cap, and are not merely Big Wall Theorists.
Randy comes to mind...... [not a BWT by definition since he has climbed several Grade V's, but to my knowledge, has yet to climb El Cap]
After two hundred posts, you'd bloody better give this a damn good shot, Billy Boy. If you bail after two pitches, you're gonna have a helluva lot of people to account to.
The benefit, of course, to announcing to your peers and to the world your intentions to climb El Cap, is that once stated, it is that much harder to back down. So I applaud and encourage this behaviour.
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno, CA
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Aug 20, 2008 - 02:33pm PT
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Now see what happens when you live in Canadia and I live 1 1/2 hours form the park??? Ummm... Randy has. It's been a while since I bailed on your 21 day, 14 hour per pitch (cybelle's lead) dog and pony show on Dihedral. Sorry. It wasn't like I was a client or needed to be guided up the thing, especially as you were asking me to ropegun all of the free pitches for you. But even I know a bum deal when I see one.
For one, I have done the subject route. 2 days, by myself. I think it took as long for you to rap the route, didn't it? I just don't tend to be a spraylord. But seriously, since you seem to be hurt that I haven't climbed with you, I'll repeat - as I have in the past - when you think you can climb at a decent pace, I'll climb with you. I don't want to waste another week and a half with weather, you being more concerned about getting into someone's pants than climbing, listening to you bicker about the rack with the third partner (sprung on me at the last minute), spend 14 hours on a single pitch, packing and repacking the bags, while you enjoy days on the ground, and a nice fire at the base, and on and on... Especially when I had the entire rack, water and all food/gear at the base of the climb when you got here. All you had to schlep was your personal gear. Fair?
Just different styles, man.
Carry on...
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Ouch!
climber
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Aug 20, 2008 - 02:49pm PT
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Melissa
Gym climber
berkeley, ca
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Aug 20, 2008 - 02:54pm PT
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Ouch! That one is for the hall of fame.
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Llama
Big Wall climber
The bubble that is Irvine, CA
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Aug 20, 2008 - 04:34pm PT
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dude, I'll get you up Lurking Fear for $1500
In a haul bag
And then you too can look in the mirror like Jack Osborne and say "I've climbed El Cap!"
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scuffy b
climber
Elmertown
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Aug 20, 2008 - 04:34pm PT
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PTPP writes:
If you bail after two pitches, you're gonna have a helluva lot of people to account to.
This is the biggest single piece of bullshit in this entire thread. You don't owe anybody here a damn thing, after all the entertainment you've ALREADY provided.
Best of luck, keep up the good work, etc.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Oakville, Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Aug 20, 2008 - 05:51pm PT
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My crab! Fortunately, I am allergic to all forms of shellfish.
Randy, I stand corrected. Nice job soloing LF. What say we have a go at Zodiac-in-a-day this fall? We should find a third, though.
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Billy
climber
Boston, Ma
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Topic Author's Reply - Aug 20, 2008 - 06:35pm PT
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I appreciate the offer, although I don't really want to be dragged up the face. That would kind of defeat the purpose a little bit.
I wanted to address one thing that Rokjok said at the end of his post.
I don't really know why I decided to make this climb. I was watching the Olympics when it hit me. Maybe a sense of impotance watching Phelps break Mark Spitz's Olympic Medal record, and all I have is a chugging record at Saint Joseph's. (Still stands.) Someone else in this post (Lynne? I apologize if I'm wrong) suggested that maybe I just felt alive for a second and this was the expression of that. Really no way to tell I guess, but regardless of my motives, I think that bailing at any point before the top would be the ultimate incarnation of the very things that have kept me on the ground my entire life - the same things that put me on one side of greatness and Michael Phelps on the other. Maybe I just need an exercise in follow-through.
Whatever the motive, I find this becomes less and less impossible with every piece of information I get and every person I talk to, and if it weren't for posts like Rokjok's, I may lose interest and forget why I'm doing it. Guy's like him get me trained and out to the mountain. People like jstan, Lynne, Roman, and Nefarius get me to the top.
I hope this clarifies a little bit. Good on you, guys. I'm headed to the gym.
-Billy
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno, CA
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Aug 20, 2008 - 06:38pm PT
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"We should find a third, though. "
Always the prankster, eh, Doc? :)
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Terry
climber
Spokane
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Aug 20, 2008 - 06:51pm PT
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Billy wrote:
"regardless of my motives, I think that bailing at any point before the top would be the ultimate incarnation of the very things that have kept me on the ground my entire life - the same things that put me on one side of greatness and Michael Phelps on the other."
Based on this comment it seems to me your motivation is to make something of your life, face up to your perceived shortcomings as a person and prove to yourself that you can achieve something grand. I suppose this has been a motivation of many throughout history who have tried the impossible. If this is what it takes for your to validate yourself then go for it but it is likely that even if you succeed in your goal you won't be permanently satisfied. In addition to your training may I suggest Rick Warren's "The Purpose Driven Life" - a fantastic best-seller. It'll help fill the holes that climbing can't.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Oakville, Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Aug 20, 2008 - 07:16pm PT
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Mwah-ah-ah...
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Gene
climber
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Aug 20, 2008 - 10:14pm PT
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so wewe is perfect for my palate.
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Dr. Rock
Ice climber
Castle Rock
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Aug 20, 2008 - 11:06pm PT
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i'LL TAKE THE HAUL BAG RIDE.
mAKE IT $1000 AND i WILL SEND A FEW EASY ONES ALONG THE WAY, AND SUPPLY ALL THE BAKED (sorry, caps off) goods you can handle.
drrock@rocketmail.com
I think this would be hilarious.
Do you think it would generate any media coverage?
Gotta make the daily El Cap report, thats for dang.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Oakville, Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Aug 21, 2008 - 12:42am PT
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You can ride with me anytime for a round trip flight from Toronto, eh? That's less than a grand, no doubt.
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Roman
Trad climber
Boston
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Aug 21, 2008 - 08:45am PT
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Billy, once you get stronger I will take you up Cathedral (~500) and Whitehorse (~700) in New Hampshire if you are still into it all at that point in time. I'll also reply to your email I just happen to be slammed at work and trying to get things together for a trip out west.
All it'll cost ya is a ~24 year old pigtailed chick! j/k :)
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Oakville, Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Aug 21, 2008 - 12:34pm PT
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I've seen the Donny Llama haul, and if anyone can get buddy up the wall in a haul bag, it's the Llama!
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno, CA
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Aug 21, 2008 - 02:05pm PT
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Too much weewee talk!!!! It's starting to frighten me and make me think I don't want to climb with either of you! :O
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scrappy
Gym climber
california
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Aug 21, 2008 - 02:37pm PT
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I would start dragging your hualbag on the road for about half a mile or soo! and practice peeing and pooping infront of the elictric fan a couple times a day just to make sure your okey with that! good luck!!!
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ricardo-sf
Sport climber
San Francisco
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Aug 21, 2008 - 03:15pm PT
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ahhh .. the joys of peeing on a wall ..
nothing like having your own piss come back up and chase you around the belay ..
.. i think i one time managed to have my piss land on el cap tower all the way from island in the sky ..
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Llama
Big Wall climber
The bubble that is Irvine, CA
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Aug 21, 2008 - 03:45pm PT
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Haha thanks Pete! And no doubt I'll get to haul some more heavy loads in a few weeks ;)
BTW, I think I have a sufficiant ghetto blaster at home that will work with the pods after a wee modification.
Also, there's nothing you can possibly do on LF to get Tom away from his shaddy perch on the bridge so no, there would be no media coverage... sadly
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midarockjock
climber
USA
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Aug 21, 2008 - 04:06pm PT
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I was following and doing TR"s at low 5.10's in a couple months
and leading some at that rating in about 1 year.
I have not been up the captain, however I have been told
Lurking Fear is probably the easiest route on the captain.
Aid is probably the most feasible choice for a 1 year goal.
Buildings these days provide A1 C(hammerless placements) to
practice if you can't get to real rock. "Get in some moderate
length routes with hanging belays. Pick some without a crowd
and practice setting up a Bivy whether or not needed".
That's a definite holdback, practice for a few months with
somebody experienced, and at the same time train. Get over
the fear of heights and the route could very possibly be done
in 1 years time if you have the rack and or money also needed.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Oakville, Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Aug 21, 2008 - 04:50pm PT
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Donny,
If your ghetto blaster is LOUD enough to create total chaos, and plays CD's, we're in business as far as I'm concerned. Please advise re. batteries - what size and how many.
Here's to a minimum two litres of coffee every morning!!
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Dr. Rock
Ice climber
Castle Rock
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Aug 21, 2008 - 06:10pm PT
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Have you tried these new hand crankers?
Pretty slick:
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Llama
Big Wall climber
The bubble that is Irvine, CA
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Aug 21, 2008 - 07:04pm PT
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alas, my blaster is not currently equiped to handle the compact disc =(
It is certainly quite capable of lending to the chaotic atmosphere up there, however, and takes 6 D batteries I believe. But I shall continue the hunt for the perfect blaster of ghettoness...
one with CD and HOPEFULLY RCA aux inputs for the pod
Back on topic...
Billy, find someone who knows what's up locally and beg them to teach you the required systems (at least the basics) and gear placements (again basic as there is much time required to learn the nuances). The begging may involve purchasing a lot of beer and cheap, yummy food. It will all be worth it though.
Also note that when people say LF is probably the easiest El Cap route... understand that it is STILL AN EL CAP ROUTE!!! Easy is an exteremely relative term in the arena of climbing.
I would agree that for it's straightforwardness, LF is possibly the "easiest" route up the Cap though it has one of the worst approaches.
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Roman
Trad climber
Boston
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Aug 21, 2008 - 07:10pm PT
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Billy 1 chick, 8 beers, an hour to learn to tie in and belay, and a ride will get you up Cathedral (one of our largest local routes...) They arent lying to you. you have my email. . .
She better be cute!
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno, CA
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Aug 21, 2008 - 07:29pm PT
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"it has one of the worst approaches"
The approach isn't *that* bad. As you said about the difficulty of the route, It IS El Cap, after all. All of the approaches on El Cap are cake. I did the approach to LF with Fred Beckey a couple of years ago and he's in his mid-eighties...
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midarockjock
climber
USA
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Aug 22, 2008 - 01:33pm PT
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"it has one of the worst approaches"
Yes for El Cap. Iv'e checked the route out from the bottom
however the Nose 5.10 version has always been my goal at 4
days and three nights.
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Llama
Big Wall climber
The bubble that is Irvine, CA
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Aug 22, 2008 - 03:30pm PT
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Yes approach is bad for El Cap... it's not bad by Valley standards... just for El Cap
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno, CA
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Aug 22, 2008 - 03:53pm PT
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My point was that there's not really a bad approach in the valley, period. Sheesh! HD, Watkins, Liberty, etc. are a little off the beaten path, but still relatively close to the road. But any approach on EC is pretty tame.
If you guys are thinking the approach to LF is hard/bad, maybe you should stick to sport climbing or bouldering? Sack up, ya wankers! BWAHAHAHA :)
edit: I'm pretty sure I bitched a least part of the way up to Dihedral and LF, when wearing haulbags tho. Dihedral is a ways up there too.
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Rhodo-Router
Gym climber
Otto, NC
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Billy, if you're doing this just to prove something to yourself, that's an OK motivation...not the best one, just OK...but you should know that the single most important quality for topping out on El Cap is perserverance. You just keep going.
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Roman
Trad climber
Boston
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Apparently....
Billy has left the building....
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Oakville, Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Sep 10, 2008 - 06:20pm PT
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Life up here in the Great White North is pretty kaotic - I'm training hard for my next wall, standing in the garage fondling gear and drinking a beer.
Paging Billy!
Can you hear it? Nothin' but crickets ...
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