Discussion Topic |
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WBraun
climber
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Topic Author's Original Post - May 8, 2008 - 12:18am PT
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There's a good fire going right now and getting bigger as the night flies.
It's right on top of the Royal Arches finish.
Who bivied up there last night?
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Russ Walling
Social climber
Out on the sand.... man.....
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Some rap bolters
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Chicken Skinner
Trad climber
Yosemite
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Hey Werner,
I noticed it today around 4:00 and called dispatch. They said there was a fire crew going up tomorrow morning. I mentioned it was pretty windy and that it had reached the summit above the spring.
Someone must have had a long day yesterday or there was a barbecue we missed.
Ken
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WBraun
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - May 8, 2008 - 12:28am PT
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The fire is going pretty good right now Ken.
Yosemite fire speculates it was climbers for sure.
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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"speculates it was climbers for sure."
call it what it is. no lightning up there was there?
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scooter
climber
fist clamp
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I live in Fish Camp. There was lighting here the last few days.
Patrick
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TomLambert
Social climber
Yosemite, CA
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I took a bunch of pictures of it. It has since fallen down and looks to be burning that brushy area on the lower pitches. For a while it was really going both at the top and at the bottom, with trails of embers falling down.
BTW - there was lots of lightning in Yosemite West too, but AFAIK there were just a few sprinkles and no lightning up toward the Valley. Also, it is *right* where the RA route ends.
We'll see if this works. I think my gallery software might block hotlinking. Anyway, there should be two pics here:
For more pics, and bigger versions:
http://yosemiteexplorer.com/albums/v/pow/royalarchesfire/
[edit]Hey! it worked! First time I've tried to show a photo[/edit]
[second edit]Okay, it didn't work. It just looked that way because they're in my browser cache. I would have to upload them here to get the pictures to work and I don't know how to do that[/edit]
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Tarbuster
climber
right here, right now
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I am going to write a bunch of wordy analysis about this, interspersed with lots of speculation, and with a good heap of punctuation.
'Should be back here in about an hour...
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Russ Walling
Social climber
Out on the sand.... man.....
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um Tom.. It did not work over here. Maybe you are just seeing your images in your cache. I see no pics.
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TomLambert
Social climber
Yosemite, CA
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Sorry - I think my gallery software is blocking it. It looked okay to me and then my wife said she couldn't see it. I think I only saw the pic because they are in the browser cache.
The link should work though.
Is there a way to upload pics instead of just linking?
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WBraun
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - May 8, 2008 - 12:58am PT
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I see the photos, they showed up in this thread.
I didn't see no lightning in the past 2 days here.
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Chicken Skinner
Trad climber
Yosemite
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Werner,
I am not surprised that is the consensus. Seems to me it would take a really big fire to burn to the top of the last pitch and a much smaller one to have something roll off and catch on the ledge with the spring.There was lightning recently.
Ken
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WBraun
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - May 8, 2008 - 01:00am PT
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When was the lightning?
Yesterday?
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TomLambert
Social climber
Yosemite, CA
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Ken, sorry my pics aren't showing, but follow the link - the whole ledge with the spring is burning and stuff is rolling off that and down the slabs. Kind of cool really - I'm too young to have seen the Glacier Point Firefall.
It looks like things started high with a small fire that's still pretty small, rolled down onto the ledge with the spring where it really took off, and then rolled down all the way almost to the base where it looks it also took off pretty good for a while.
If you go to the gallery, I have pics from 2pm and then another set from 8pm that show the evolution pretty well.
Werner, the lightning was on Sunday. A pretty good storm rolled through the high country. I wasn't in the Valley, but folks who were say there was little to no lightning there.
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Russ Walling
Social climber
Out on the sand.... man.....
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Tom: If you use an absolute link it will work: Click on the image in the gallery... Select "Open the image in a new window", window will open outside the gallery, and use that URL. At least on a Mac....
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k-man
Gym climber
SCruz
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I thought the firefall was on the other side of the valley.
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TomLambert
Social climber
Yosemite, CA
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Yes, the firefall was from Glaicer Point
Russ, I did use absolute links (I've built lots of web sites, I know how it should be done). And your image is broken in my browser too!
Just follow the link I gave - that works for sure.
Meanwhile, Theresa is trying to post them on her blog and we'll see if the links from there work.
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WBraun
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - May 8, 2008 - 01:18am PT
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So today's is Wednesday and the fire started today.
Where did this so called lightning that started this fire come from? There hasn't been any lightning for 3 days up till today.
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TomLambert
Social climber
Yosemite, CA
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I disabled hotlink protection - now they show up.
And in looking at the pics with my wife leaning over my shoulder correcting me, it's lower down than I thought.
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JLP
Social climber
The internet
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Wow - the ultimate Gumby does Royal Arches story!
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TomLambert
Social climber
Yosemite, CA
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The fire is still smoldering but mostly out. Helicopter came by a few minutes ago, took a look and moved on. I think they'll just let this one burn out.
I went for my morning run and went out around to Royal Arches. I was surprised not to see a closure notice (more on that), so I climbed the chimney pitch and went on up to next "step". Didn' see any sign of fire, so the large fire I saw below tree line was on the next big ledge up.
Downclimbed to the base and saw some balls of newspaper with some type that looks like Thai. I'm guessing that this just came out of the shoes of some climber who packed their shoes for travel and decided that the base of Royal Arches was as good a place as any to throw their garbage. Good job guys.
When I continued on my run heading east, I did come to yellow tape and a closure. I think I didn't see one at the other end because I was coming from Sugar Pine bridge and cut up at the creek so as to avoid getting my precious feet wet. I suspect that if I had come in from the Ahwahnee I would have seen a closure there. I'm guessing they won't lift the closure until the fire stops smouldering.
And Russ, I found no evidence that either of these crimes (the fire or the litter) were perpetrated by rap bolters, but I'll keep looking. I think the Thai print is suggestive, but I'm still looking for signs of the tell-tale human sacrifice often left behind by rap bolters.
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TomLambert
Social climber
Yosemite, CA
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>>So today's is Wednesday and the fire started today.
Maybe. Last night we were talking to a couple of guys in Stoneman's Meadow who said that they had been looking up there for several days watching people rappel and such and onMonday night they noticed what looked like a campfire, pretty much where the first smoke came from.
So perhaps someone bivied there Monday night, put the fire out Tuesday, but not well, it smouldered but didnt' catch. When the winds came up and the temps rose on Wed, it finally caught.
That seems more likely than a lightning strike that gave off no smoke all day Monday, happened to burst into flame without much smoke on Monday night, happened burned itself out by Tuesday morning, and then happened to catch again on Wednesday.
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L
climber
The salty ocean blue and deep
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You're confusing Cigarette Smokers with rap bolters there...a huge mistake.
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TomLambert
Social climber
Yosemite, CA
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>>an emergency of some sort
"Uh, mister ranger dude, we were, like, really chilly because it was, like, 45 degrees and..."
Come on! Barring rain and getting wet, I've bivied without gear in much colder temps than that didn't need to light a fire. I suspect the only thing at risk was their comfort and a couple hours of sleep lost while shivering.
>>You're confusing Cigarette Smokers with rap bolters there...
My mistake. I thought cigarette smokers were the ones who ate babies and rap bolters were the human sacrifice folks. I'm always getting that mixed up.
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WBraun
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - May 8, 2008 - 12:25pm PT
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Kahnom
There's been several cases of climbers making biviouac fires on top of climbs and NOT extinguishing the fires properly before leaving and having them turn into similar type scenarios such as this one in the past.
Once, free soloing the Northeast Buttress of Higher, years ago such a fire started up while I was in the upper dihedral. The fire chopper came and unloaded a crew and started dumping water on the spot fire.
Then they noticed me and hovered alongside hollering whoops and such.
It was cool .....
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L
climber
The salty ocean blue and deep
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"I thought cigarette smokers were the ones who ate babies and rap bolters were the human sacrifice folks."
No Tom, you've got it right. At least the first part anyway.:-)
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Matt
Trad climber
primordial soup
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i wonder if the tree that you climb through about one pitch above the long ledge after the pendulum, and for that matter the tree on that long ledge, will be gone? (hmmm, could a fire actually change the rating of the climb? we'll see)
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Trad climber
San Francisco, Ca
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Lightning fires can creep around for a long time (much longer than 3 days) before coming out of the closet, though the evidence suggests climbers on this one. Glad I was not trying to top out into the raging inferno.
Obviously, climbers should make sure their fires are put out, but I don't see the big deal with making one if you can on a night out. It's just burning some sticks and brush.
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Wade Icey
Trad climber
www.alohashirtrescue.com
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where was Coz' last night? that's pretty close to half dome!
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Forest
Trad climber
Tucson, AZ
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Obviously, climbers should make sure their fires are put out, but I don't see the big deal with making one if you can on a night out. It's just burning some sticks and brush.
Given that climbers almost certainly don't have enough water with them to properly douse the fire, how can they possible make sure it's all the way out?
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Edie Howe
Social climber
Yosemite, CA
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Tom, you're still wrong. Us smokers sacrifice kittens and puppies. We don't eat babies. It's the dope smokers who eat babies!
Edie
Was nowhere near the top of Royal Arches, EVAR.
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Trad climber
San Francisco, Ca
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It's easy to put out fires with out water. In fact, overuse of water often leads to reburns.
Just like Smokey says, use a shovel (or approximation thereof) and dirt, mix it up, and make sure it's cool to the touch. You can then continue your epic without any nagging worries regarding forest fires.
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TomLambert
Social climber
Yosemite, CA
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There is no damage to the route as I mentioned earlier.
Edie - kittens and dogs - that's terrible. I thought it was just babies.
>>use a shovel
Yup, I always keep one in my chalk bag in case I get stuck out on an all-night bivy and need to make sure the fire is out the next day. Definitely solves the problem of not having enough water with me to properly douse a fire.
>> Maybe someone ran a torch to the top...
I doubt it. I was listening to NPR all day and there were no stories about protesters, so I think that theory can be counted out.
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TomLambert
Social climber
Yosemite, CA
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PS Edie - watch out. First you start posting at Supertopo. Next thing you know you're snorting chalk. Then you're selling kittens, puppies and babies off to medical research to pay for you habit. Stop now!
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ontheedgeandscaredtodeath
Trad climber
San Francisco, Ca
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Cave-men didn't have home-depot shovels and were able to figure out something to use when they needed one. Get in touch with your cro-magnon self and save the weight of that shovel on your next climb!
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Clint Cummins
Trad climber
SF Bay area, CA
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Forest,
> Given that climbers almost certainly don't have enough water with them to properly douse the fire, how can they possible make sure it's all the way out?
There is a huge stream in the springtime about 200' west of the Royal Arches topout - plenty of water.
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Domingo
Trad climber
El Portal, CA
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"There is a huge stream in the springtime about 200' west of the Royal Arches topout - plenty of water"
It feeds Devil's Bathtub, correct? It's definitely still going strong. There's a closer waterfall that usually goes straight down the arches, but it died pretty recently. Last I knew (five days ago), there were still pools at the top from the source of this fall.
I was climbing at the base of the Arches yesterday when the fire started (between the regular Arches route and Washington Column). I assumed people were getting rescued off of North Dome Gully when I saw the chopper. It was pretty breezy even without the helicopter... I don't know if that had anything to do with the fire spreading. Apparently it was only a half-acre burned as of this morning.
Werner, do you know whether it's out yet?
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WBraun
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - May 8, 2008 - 05:16pm PT
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Just got back from a multi-casualty incident where two school buses full of kids just below Reeds Pinnacle colided. Huge mess 120 closed for over 3 hours.
From Chapel straight smoke is still billowing from the RA fire as of 2:15 pm.
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leinosaur
Trad climber
burns flat, ok
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Or better yet, build a SMALL FIRE if you need one! A big one's a lame waste of resources up there. The right-sized fire will be out on its own, before bedtime.
There's a pair of boulders up there with a sandy base that make a perfect hearth - the boulders reflect the heat and just a COUPLE OF STICKS make a toasty little fire.
(it was a year ago, OK? It wasn't us, I swear!)
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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Maybe somebody intentionally set the fire in that particular location to create a Firefall effect.
Could someone be that selfish and stupid?
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Domingo
Trad climber
El Portal, CA
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I overheard about the bus at the post office..."12 kids with back injuries" was what people were saying. I kept hoping it was all hearsay and things weren't that bad. Well, at least no one was seriously hurt or killed, as you said.
"No other vehicles were involved in the collision, the cause of which is under investigation."
Lines backed up way farther than anyone would expect. Getting out of the park yesterday, I got stopped by the line before hitting Fern Spring.
Bluering: Maybe, but the firefall bonfires weren't started at 3pm on 8:30 pm sunset days. And they were pushed off, not left on top, of Glacier Point.
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Double D
climber
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Great photos...wish I were there.
Warner, didn't the "rotton log" fall off long ago? I noticed it was missing in the picture.
Bummer about the kids and school buses. Glad it wasn't more serious.
Dave
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Forest
Trad climber
Tucson, AZ
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There is a huge stream in the springtime about 200' west of the Royal Arches topout - plenty of water.
Ah. Wasn't sure it was still running. Bummer that someone apparently failed to use it properly.
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno, CA
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"Maybe somebody intentionally set the fire in that particular location to create a Firefall effect.
Could someone be that selfish and stupid?"
Apparently you've never heard of Mike Fatali? They guy who set Delicate Arch on fire?
http://web.ksl.com/dump/news/cc/special/enviro/archfrx.htm
What an egotistical dickhead, that guy.
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bluering
Trad climber
Santa Clara, Ca.
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I understand that, Domingo, but consider the location on the Arches where this went down. The burnt embers wouldn't need to be pushed as evidenced in the photos, they would naturally fall down the slabs.
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Domingo
Trad climber
El Portal, CA
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Yeah, given how much crap is falling off the top right now... it is kind of like the firefall.
I was on the Rambler yesterday when I saw the chopper. Damn.
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johnboy
Trad climber
Can't get here from there
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I've seen many fires started by lightning hitting a tree. The fire burns on the inside and works its way out after a few days. Gawd knows how, but they do. Some of the wood is so green a person could hardly get it to burn even trying their best to do so. Haystack fires are the same, they can take a week to burn their way to the outside and then take off. A lot of hardwood trees get hollow spots in the middle, you can drown them with water till you swear the fire couldn't come back to life, but they will unless you cut them into sections and get to every inch of it.
Ain't saying it was by lightning, but I wouldn't rule it out.
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Karl Baba
Trad climber
Yosemite, Ca
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Mark posted this on it's own thread. I'll repost it here incase that thread goes off the main page
Area below the fire now closed to climbing.
Peace
Karl
+++++++
Jesse is apparently stuck in the bus accident traffic jam, so I'll make it official: All routes from Devil's Bathtubs to The Rambler are temporarily closed to climbing. A fair amount of debris is falling down from the jungle, with a lot of it being funneled west along the ramp systems lower down. We will post updates as conditions change.
Cheers,
Mark
NPS Wilderness
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WBraun
climber
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Topic Author's Reply - May 8, 2008 - 07:40pm PT
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Yeah all those scenarios are so called possible.
Except, there was no lightning strike up there.
And Yosemite Fire says it was a campfire that started it.
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rockermike
Mountain climber
Berkeley
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I'll confess. I started a fire at the top of RA one bitter cold spring night. It must of been smoldering underground for a while. That was 1977. :) My first day and first route in Yosemite. We took a little longer then we expected and were only wearing T-shirts. But I promise, we pissed on the fire real good in the morning.
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scooter
climber
fist clamp
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Yo, Werner I was just sayin' there was lightning here, in Fish Camp.
Forest, the spring at the top of arches PUMPS water so they definetly had enough to make black paste if they had cared to.
I wonder if there will be fewer pine needles on the last slab now?
P
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TradIsGood
Chalkless climber
the Gunks end of the country
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I actually saw a fire started by rockfall on the side of the Wasatch mountains when I was a kid. Just happened to be looking at them through the binoculars 4 blocks from the base. Saw sparks from the rocks. Seemed pretty cool. About 3 hours later, there was a range fire up there. Totally dry. CAVU.
It ended up being acres by the time the fire crew was able to contain it. That was sage brush and tumbleweeds. Maybe dry pine needles would work?
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philo
Trad climber
boulder, co.
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The fire starters are so lame, lazy and pathetic. I can't believe they could not properly handle their situation.
It is a bit ironic that so many climbers have their panties in a bunch over Sean's route on SFHD and so few are outraged by this blatently inconsiderate act.
And I hope those school kids are alright.
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rockermike
Mountain climber
Berkeley
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Hey, Re the slabs traverse on last pitch; I climbed the route back in the day with my complete newbee girl friend and she freaked out on that traverse pitch with no pro. Since then I've always done the rap and never repeated the traverse to the forest. Now I'm thinking of taking two young boys up the route (also outdoor newbees) and don't really want to do the 10 rap thing with them. But I'm trying to remember how the traverse is (its been some 25 years). Is it reasonably secure and safe for a couple of 15 year olds who have never been more than 45' off the ground before? ha
Any advice appreciated.
Of course, now there is the question of the condition of the burned forest too. Hopefully its still scramble-able to the rim?
(mind you, these boys are pulling V5s in the gym. Way stronger than me for sure. But as you all know, outdoor trad climbing is a different beast. They are also dirt poor, have no gear, and keep asking me when I'm going to retire and gift my rack to them. ha)
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