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rockermike
Mountain climber
Berkeley
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Topic Author's Original Post - Mar 9, 2008 - 02:39pm PT
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Anybody ever bitten by a brown recluse?
I got home from my Utah/Colorado trip and the next morning my foot started swelling up. A few days later I started antibiotics and a little later a puss pocket developed. 10 days in now its huge, ugly red white and blue pussy wound. I'd upload a photo but can't find my camera link cable.
Anyway, I went to doctor before puss pocket formed and she assumed it was just a skin infection. But now I compare it to brown recluse bite photos on the internet and they sure look the same. And I kind of vaguely remember waking in the middle of the night in our hotel in Colorado with a sudden sharp pain in my ankle. It was pitch dark at the time and I was half asleep but now in retrospect I'm thinking it was probably a bite.
I understand there is nothing a doc can do anyway. But how long am I going to be on crutches watching old videos.??
anyone else have experience?
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Luckily it is still readily treatable with vancomycin.
I've never been bitten by a brown recluse but a bartender at a place I used to DJ at was. She still has the giant round scar on her right shoulder blade to prove it.
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nita
climber
chica from chico, I don't claim to be a daisy
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When I read this post, like Sewellymon, I was thinking about MRSA.
Rockermike, With a brown Recluse bite, doesn't the skin around the bite rot and die...or something like that? Tooo lazy to google.
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bachar
Gym climber
Mammoth Lakes, CA
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Go to the doctor or specialist now!
There are brown recluse spiders in Mammoth (and lots of wood spiders) and many people with bad long term consequences from brown recluse bites... Treat it seriously!
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rockermike
Mountain climber
Berkeley
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 9, 2008 - 04:03pm PT
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my bite is not unlike this (not my foot)but larger puss bubble.
here's some gory pictures if anyone is interested. (cycle thru 10 sequences and scroll down to time series of various bites)
http://www.highway60.com/mark/brs/casestudy_photos.asp?Msg=2836
damn, gross stuff
mine is still a closed blister.
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nita
climber
chica from chico, I don't claim to be a daisy
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OMG, that's HAIRBALL!!! Hope you have a complete recovery! Does it hurt bad, does it itch? No pic?
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Crimpergirl
Social climber
So on my way outta St. Looney!!!
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I was bit about 4 years ago on the knee. It was knarly, but it did not look like what you've posted. Still, the key is to prevent any infection. See a doc.
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Gimp
Trad climber
Grand Junction
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First you need to find out if this is truely what you have. Unfortunately a diagnosis of exclusion. Thoughts posted about MRSA are a real concern now days as community acquired MRSA is increasingly more common. Follow-up immediately with current treating physician or start with you internist and follow-up with an infectious disease specialist, particularly if is a bacterial infection and not a spider bite (or possibly both).
Have personally skin grafted a number of brown recluse bites over the years. Conflicting data on whether or not dapsone will limit area of necrosis. Steroids probably have no role. Secondary or primary infections need appropriate antibiotics. Emperic therapy is not as effective as in past due to increasing incidence of resistance in community acquired infections.
SEEK ON-GOING Medical Care and a hopefully avoid tissue loss.
Steve
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bob d'antonio
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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I have and the area near the bite turned black in less than day....no puss or such but you could see two fang holes in the middle. I also fell into and out reality...with shakes, cold sweat and fever. That doesn't look like my bite (confirmed & treated)...most of area near the bite was turning black and quickly.
They were calling for plastic surgery but it didn't come to that.
I made it to the hospital in less than a day and seem to catch it early.
It wasn't pretty.
Get to a doctor now, that looks bad and as JB stated there can be very bad long term effects if you prolong getting help.
Good luck and hope you heal quickly.
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jstan
climber
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Am I seeing things or not? In the picture above the leg appears red above the knee. If the venom gets into the blood stream are systemic effects seen?
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Raydog
Trad climber
Boulder Colorado
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HIDEOUS - rockermike gods speed getting over this
spider bite = creepy shZ
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville
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I was bitten by a Brown Recluse in '80. (20 years old)
My left knee was very swollen the day after and by the second day I could not put weight on it. A black line developed along the vein running up my left leg from the bite on the inside of my left knee.
Doctors prescibed heavy anitibiotics for ten days and I recovered unscathed sans a dime sized scar and a nasty two/three days of pain and fever.
If your leg/ankle looks anything like the photo posted you should be under professional care now. If one doctor says "no worries" see another.
Good luck.
-w
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neebee
Social climber
calif/texas
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hey there... say, my son was bit once by a brown recluse (in south texas) (seems it was in an old junked car.. and he actually got bit again, later... so that's how he figured the now it was from the car)...
he was not home, with us at the time, but we went to see him, and the bite, later, and then sent him to a doc (but this was on the second day)...
it started to get blackish, too...but it did not blisters, or get red, etc... it was starting to eat up his knee tissue, though, and he got in just in time before any damgage was done... we were all very grateful, and i was the "bad" one that had told him to wait, in the first place, as i had never known of such a spider, etc,... and we always waited for our body to heal, instead of running to the docs, as we had no money...
BUT... it was confirmed as a brown recluse bite, so i'd tend to think that if you went in, the emergency doc should be able to tell that much, or not......
he sure dont like any thing to do with spider, now, for sure, ... oh, my...
say, to any travelers, even south padre island has them, as well as scorpions...
i sure hope you get well soon, and you best get it looked at, by this point in time...god bless... will be praying for some kind of verdict to be reached as to what all that is...
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David Nelson
climber
San Francisco
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JStan: yes, that picture certainly shows a band of red extending up the leg, in a classic distribution that shows ascending lymphangitis, which has the common name "blood poisoining." A patient like that is failing to control the infection, and the bugs are winning. If the condition is not treated, when the lymphatics start to drain into the venous system, the patient will certainly show systemic signs, ie, shaking chills, fever, malaise, etc. They may show these signs even in earlier stages of ascending lymphangitis. The systemic signs are caused by bacteria and breakdown products of bacteria in the bloodstream. Untreated, the patient can die, so this is serious stuff.
As an orthopedic hand surgeon, when I see ascending lymphangitis, I take the patient to the operating room as an emergency (ie, do not wait the normal 8 hours after the last food) and open up the infected area, irrigating it out, and leaving it open. They also get admitted for IV antibiotics.
Bottom line: if you see red streaks going up the arm or leg (they are not subtle after a few hours, and they are tender as well as red), you need to get help very soon, don't wait.
(This page is not a perfect match http://www.emedicine.com/emerg/topic88.htm but it is good to read. I have found that the articles on eMedicine.com are quite reliable, and you will see that they are all signed and dated, and the credentials of the author are given; and the date it was edited, the editor's name, and the editor's credentials are given. This does not make it infallible, but it does make it credible.)
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kwit
climber
california
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someone i know just recently went through this exact thing (isn't healed yet) but you should know that there are no documented cases of brown recluse spiders outside of the southeast/midwest.
california and the rest of the pacific northwest have a different spider called a "hobo spider" which effects a similar reaction that is not as severe and should heal in ~3 mos.
probably you'll scar, but no big deal.
either way, you have to get on antibiotics ASAP--oral and topical--or it won't heal. don't scratch it or worry it, keep it covered and moist, and don't use hydrogen peroxide, which slows tissue regeneration.
get to a doctor!
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rockermike
Mountain climber
Berkeley
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 9, 2008 - 09:22pm PT
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wow, sure good to know so many people care. My ex - at whose house I am recuperating - sure could care the less. ha
Anyway, for those who are concerned. My ankle started to swell and get very painful 24 to 48 hours after "suspected" bite. First red and swelling. Can't walk. After three days I went to doc and they gave me oral antibiotics. They thought it was skin infection although they didn't test for what kind.
Three days later swelling and redness still increasing (but no lines moving up leg) so I went back to doctor (different one on duty). She gave me shot and new stronger antibiotic. It seems to be working. Swelling down everyday but big blister and dark skin (like in picture) developed.
Only hurts when I stand. If leg above waist (ie video watching position) it doesn't hurt.
Tomorrow I'm going to doctor for another purpose. I'll have them look at leg again.
thanks again for all advice.
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justthemaid
climber
Los Angeles
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Well, whether it is a brown recluse or not, you need medical attention and antibiotics if it is infected. I speak from experience.
I have been hospitalized TWICE from NON-venomous spider bites that became infected. Evidently spider fangs are rife with bacteria. The first one was one day at the hospital and left a big scar because I ignored it so long. The second one ended up being a 2 day stay in the hospital on IV antibiotics. I couldn't put weight on my leg or drive my car for a week.
A recluse bite can stay an open un-healing wound for months, especially if you don't treat it, so take care of yourself.
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David Nelson
climber
San Francisco
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I had the occasion a year ago to look into the brown recluse spider bite thing in California (I know you are not in CA). I found, via the Net, a scientist who described himself as the foremost brown recluse spider authority in CA, worked at the Univ of Calif, Davis. He said that there are no Loxoceles reclusis in CA, that did not arrive there in a load of wood or something from outside the state. They are not native and do not survive in CA.
Nonetheless, there are many other kinds of spiders that can bite and cause necrotic skin lesions.
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couchmaster
climber
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Mar 10, 2008 - 12:14am PT
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Mike: good luck with it bud! Must be something else as I think that any Brown Recluse in Colo/Utah must have traveled there as they are not native and do not habitate there that I'm aware. Hobos have migrated into the state I believe, but bites are very rare. They are fairly common around here now, and although I've know people to have the lil things rear up and angrily confront them, no one has been bitten that I know.
Some info to peruse while you have your puss-filled leg propped up: http://spiders.ucr.edu/necrotic.html
Carefully read that part where Lyme has been mis-diagnosed as Brown Recluse bite. BTW, probably too early for Ticks in Colorado? So that may be out. Bob D" - too early for ticks there?
Did you go to Southern Utah or warmer climes? It could just be a staph kind of infection eh?
Either way: good luck!
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fear
Ice climber
hartford, ct
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Mar 10, 2008 - 12:32am PT
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That's absurd that they "can't survive in CA". lol. If Brown recluses can survive through New England winters then they sure as hell could live in parts of CA.
But there are tons of different spider/bug bites. Also people can react very differently to bites from the same spider so.....
In the end it really doesn't matter. You've just got to ride it out now.
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Lost Arrow
Trad climber
The North Ridge of the San Fernando
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Mar 10, 2008 - 12:34am PT
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If you go to the ER they will admit you with a leg like that.
Good Luck.
Juan
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pud
climber
Sportbikeville
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Mar 20, 2008 - 11:25pm PT
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what's the latest word?
are you OK?
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rockermike
Mountain climber
Berkeley
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Topic Author's Reply - Mar 21, 2008 - 12:25am PT
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Still here; in bed with foot raised that is.
Third trip to doctor and he decided we should have wound drained, obvious large puss pocket at that point. so he sent me to surgery. Surgeon decided better to cut whole thing open - he claimed it would ultimately heal better that way???
Anyway, cut a hole in my leg 3" * 2" by 1/4 inch deep. No pain until local anesthetic wore off. ha talk about a grown man crying.
Now a week and a half later wound is getting smaller but still open. Have to have dressing changed daily. Otherwise things are on the mend.
Surgeon said he didn't see signs of dieing flesh so he doubted it was recluse. Maybe another spider or some spontaneous infection.
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HighDesertDJ
Trad climber
Arid-zona
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Mar 21, 2008 - 12:44am PT
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Rocker, abscesses are isolated pockets of infection that are very hard for your body to fight. By draining it, your body can get leukocytes in there and any antibiotics you're taking can actually have an effect on the bacteria as it start to grow again. Antibiotics don't actually kill bacteria, they screw up their growth processes, so if it isn't growing they can't do anything to it.
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davidji
Social climber
CA
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Mar 21, 2008 - 02:38am PT
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Ouch! Glad to hear no dieing flesh tho. Heal fast!
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wildone
climber
Where you want to be
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Mar 21, 2008 - 11:33am PT
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I was bitten by a brown recluse when I was 18. It started as massive pain in my kidneys-it felt like someone was twisting knives in my kidneys- so I signed out of high school and drove to the local (Mariposa) hospital. At this point, I didn't have any pain from my left shin where the bite was located,(my doctor later said they inject a little pain killer before the actual bite and that the bite could have happened up to 24 hours before the pain manifested itself) and I was wearing long pants, as I had a high school football game that night and the coach liked us to wear slacks and a tie on game day.
They gave me some gnarly anti biotics, and I didn't dress for the game, so I was sitting on the sidelines when someone walking by bumped my shin. OH MY GOD, did that hurt. Hiked up my pants, and my entire shin, about 10 inches by 6 or 7 inches was swollen tight and red/blue/purple. I went straight to the doctor, and he was glad they had started me on the antibiotics. I came in to his practice three times a day so they could monitor it. At this point, my entire leg below my knee was in some form of discoloration. He said that if my toes turned black, they would have to "core the wound" ie, cut necrotic tissue out, and that I could possibly lose toes. So I laid up with my foot elevated for the next week or so, took the drugs, turned out ok. The skin on my shin is shiny, though.
Scary.
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wildone
climber
Where you want to be
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Mar 21, 2008 - 11:42am PT
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As for the "Brown recluse in CA" thing, the week before, I had taken possession of a 1960 Galaxie, delivered from the south, that had been sitting in a barn for 29 years, 36,000 orig miles.
I'll bet that little bugger was up under the dash.
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apogee
climber
Technically expert, safe belayer, can lead if easy
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Ho, shizznit....that's a funny link, Ed.
"Rampant recluse phobia is based on people's willingness to believe the worst about a situation and the sensationalistic news media who scream about the POSSIBILITY of one spider being found in California. Actual titles from newspapers regarding recluse stories are "Necrotic Wound Blamed on Elusive Spider" , "Spider-bite Terror in Calif.", "Likely Bite by Spider Changes Life". Notice how carefully the titles are chosen. They don't say that they have found the spiders or that a population of the spider has been verified. They report the belief that the spiders are here or have caused damage. Many times the speculative stories are based on the premise that a brown recluse COULD be found in California. While this is certainly true (since people move from the Midwest each day), it is also true that because I am a male, I could have an illicit and immoral relationship with a Playboy bunny. This is definitely a possibility."
Author's note:
"These are not the opinions of the University of California Riverside however, they are the opinions of a highly volatile arachnologist who is bloody tired of everybody claiming that every little mark on their body is the result of a brown recluse bite and who believe with a religious zeal that brown recluses are part of the California spider fauna despite the incredibly overwhelming evidence to the contrary. The tone of this article is purposely crafted to mimic the hyperanxious state of the paranoid public because many of them have trouble listening to boring cold scientific presentations (of which this may still be guilty despite my intentions) when their beliefs are solidly based on erroneous general consensus."
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Bob D'A
Trad climber
Taos, NM
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I got bitten by brown recluse back in 1999 in NH. My bite was on my back and I caught it early, no surgery and just a small scar is left.
Drove back to Philly and when to the ER, they had no idea what it was until my wife told them it was a spider bite. Heavy antibiotics for a week and I recovered.
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Ken M
Mountain climber
Los Angeles, Ca
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Third trip to doctor and he decided we should have wound drained, obvious large puss pocket at that point. so he sent me to surgery. Surgeon decided better to cut whole thing open - he claimed it would ultimately heal better that way???
Absolutely true. When you have infection in the body, the body attempts to push it out, but it doesn't know which way, so it goes all ways. Sometimes it will consolidate it into abscesses, and those often will burrow out to the surface to drain, but opening it manually provides a direct route, and allows healing elements to come in from the uninfected areas.
By opening the whole thing, the surgeon is assuring that the infection has a route out. This is a very correct approach, and in some people, is limb-saving.
At this stage, it is FAR more important to do than any antibiotic.
"A chance to cut, is a chance to cure"
By the way, saw people with "spider bits" every week of my career as a family doc, but I doubt that I actually saw one in my career.
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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Sep 30, 2015 - 09:01pm PT
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Ouch! Ugly!
I got a brown recluse bite in 1992 in Kansas on the way to the valley. The thing got me on the ear.
It blew up to the size of a golf ball and I got it drained in the valley at the clinic and got atibiotics, then went to the needles a few days later. When it blew up again, l got it drained in Bakersfield. It was worse. When I told the doctors I was heading to LA next, they referred me to a guy at the Huntington center, where I got surgery a couple days later. They basically filleted my ear to clean the dead tissue out.
At that point the climbing trip was over, so my wife said maybe we should go to Portland, where she had a job offer, which we did on condition that the University find a doctor to look at the ear post surgery. and that's how we moved here.
I hope yours heals as well as mine did, though you don't have to feel under any obligation to move here. Good luck!
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Aya K
Trad climber
Boulder, CO!
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Sep 30, 2015 - 09:09pm PT
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Purulent. The word you're looking for is purulent.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Sep 30, 2015 - 09:27pm PT
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I've never been scared of a recluse. The 45 brown widows outdside my door I just killed wearing flip flops, however, cause some minor concerns.
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GDavis
Social climber
SOL CAL
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Sep 30, 2015 - 09:29pm PT
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One of the first steps one should take in dealing with these critters should be to identify them properly before blasting them with pesticide and/or getting hysterical.
I've bookmarked Ed's article...
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Hawkeye
climber
State of Mine
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i got some type of bite about 12 yrs ago. 4 inches below my nuts, luckily. it looked like a pimple at first, then got really sore and red. eventually a doc cleaned out the necrotic tissue and ii had a hole the size of a golf ball in my leg.
those bites are really bad. i was sick for a week. fortunately i think they are really rare too.
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Crimpergirl
Sport climber
Boulder, Colorado!
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Brown recluse like to house in dry areas (i.e., in houses). They are primarily night hunters and do not use to web to capture their prey.
When I lived in St. Louis, I would put wide masking tape upside down at closet doors and in front of furniture. In the morning, it was like a holiday when I'd go around and see how many of the little bastards were stuck on the tape.
HA!
I was bitten on the leg, on the inside of my knee. It either crawled up the bed skirt and got in the bed. I may have rolled over on it (they tend to bite when they feel threatened...are being smushed). Or it may have crawled in my jeans that I had on the floor next to the bed (never did that again). When I put the jeans on the next day, it may have bit me as it was getting smushed. I never found a body in my bed so I assume the jean theory was the correct one.
At first I thought I had a blueberry stuck on my leg, then I saw it was my skin that was black/blue. I pulled it, it stretched, and then it all ripped off. Sort of gruesome. The bite eventually because as deep a hole as one could get there. (I felt like I could have inserted a pencil into it a half inch or so. The bite also made me feel like I had the flu. It was my understanding at the time (this was maybe 8 yrs ago) that the removing flesh approach wasn't the best, but rather just taking antibiotics was. Did that. It healed. Now I have a scar and a story and got a lot of joy of sticking those little boogers on tape. :)
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drljefe
climber
El Presidio San Augustin del Tucson
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When I was in fifth grade I got a brown recluse bite.
I thought I might have a splinter in my butt cheek and noticed a small spot of blood on my white OP shorts :-)
I showed my grandmother and she exclaimed "it's a spider bite! ".
By the next morning I had a half a grapefruit on my ass cheek.
The doctor said "OK son there's only one way to see- drop your shorts"
So I did.
"HOLY SH#T!" he said.
How's that for bedside manner with a fifth-grader? LOL!!!
He told me to lie down and get something to bite on.
My mom gave me her super-thick mom wallet filled with coupons and stuff
and I clamped down on it like a pitbull.
He perform some kind of procedure....
As I was exiting the room I looked in the trash bin ....
There were two king-size tongue depressors, a bunch of wipes, and gobs of black viscous fluid.
He had popped it like a zit!
For weeks, or months maybe, the skin sloughed away like an open pit mine, leaving contour lines, like a topo map, of skin.
So, for my whole life I have washed my clothes inside out and leave them inside out it in the dresser, or wherever.
That way I have to turn them right side out and shake them out before I put them on-
A good habit when you live in the desert.
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Reilly
Mountain climber
The Other Monrovia- CA
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That's why I'm movin' back to Alaska when we retire - at least you can see
a griz and a moose, before they kick yer azz.
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phylp
Trad climber
Upland, CA
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These stories are all creeping me out!!!
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Lorenzo
Trad climber
Portland Oregon
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Aw, don't be scared of spiders on airplanes. It's just as likely that the critter that will get you in your seat will be a scorpion.
I had a flight cancelled this summer when they spotted one on the plane I was boarding that just came from the Dominican Republic.
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