Discussion Topic |
|
This thread has been locked |
Messages 1 - 37 of total 37 in this topic |
Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
|
|
Thanks for posting the link. Buhl was a true purist and as tough they come. Original school of hard knocks!
|
|
Toker Villain
Big Wall climber
Toquerville, Utah
|
|
Bikes into the river after Piz Badille.
|
|
Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
|
|
The first climbing history book that I ever read was On Top of the World by Showell Styles published in 1967. It had an excellent chapter on Nanga Parbat. This was the face of a hardman........
|
|
Steve Grossman
Trad climber
Seattle, WA
|
|
And an even frostier portrait from Mountain 36 June 1974. Great Diemberger mini biography!
|
|
Mimi
climber
|
|
Thanks for the heads up on this fantastic BBC interview. Joe Simpson eloquently captures Hermann Buhl's legacy. Buhl soloed Nanga Parbat the same year year Hillary topped out on Everest in 1953. What a difference in style for the two benchmark ascents. What a mountaineer!
|
|
Marlow
Sport climber
OSLO
|
|
Oct 30, 2015 - 11:27pm PT
|
Tom Woods:
Here's a weird one on this old thread. Check out Jaybro's satirical comic on Gaston and Buhl on the second page.
Maybe you older folks knew this, but just noticed that Buhl is selling Pervitin. Were they making fun of him for performance enhancing drugs? Or did they really use Pervitin for climbs?
http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2013/05/pilots-salt-the-third-reich-kept-its-soldiers-alert-with-meth/276429/
Anybody know if these old guys were using performance enhancing drugs, like a meth precursor?
Jgill:
I did not see a reference to Hermann Buhl in that article. Maybe I missed a link?
edit: OK, I saw the cartoon on page two. Was it speculation or known that Buhl took this stuff? I read his book years ago but can't recall him mentioning drugs, only eating potato skins!
Brian in SLC:
Buhl...to the tune of a Stone song...running to the shelter of the climbers' little helper...ha ha.
http://www.outsideonline.com/1914501/climbings-little-helper
AMPHETAMINES WERE THE FIRST drug of choice in the mountains. In 1953, Austria’s Hermann Buhl took pervitin, the superdrug that Nazi troops took before battle, during his solo first ascent of Pakistan’s Nanga Parbat. Ten years later, during his historic 1963 traverse of Everest, American climber Tom Hornbein gave two teammates, Lute Jerstad and Barry Bishop, dexedrine to aid their descent. “My impression is it didn’t do a damn bit of good,” says Hornbein, who didn’t take the speed himself.
Reilly:
The US Air Force and Navy routinely give 'uppers' to single seat fighter
pilots on long redeployment flights. Hey, it's medicinal, and cheap insurance.
Tom Woods:
Cool article about Dex, Brian.
They didn't mention their source on Buhl and the pervitin. Hopefully the source wasn't an old cartoon from supertopo.
Brian in SLC:
From Buhl's Lonely Challenge:
"I had with me a few tablets of Pudutin, a drug with stimulates the circulation and wards off frostbite, and a few pills of Pervitin for extra strength in case of extreme necessity. We had carried them ever since Base Camp."
"Completely exhausted, I fell down on the snow. Hunger racked me, thirst tortured me, but I knew I had to save the last drop as long as possible. Perhaps Pervitin was the answer? It couldn't be many hours before I got back again and the effects would last that long. Doubtfully, I swallowed two tablets and waited for them to take effect; nothing seemed to happen and I felt no benefit. Or was it that they had already done their work and that without out them I would never have been able to get up again? You never know with tablets!"
His own words.
Todd Eastman:
Oxygen or speed?
What's the difference?
Tom Woods:
Thanks Brian, I guess the old comic had the pervitin part right.
It does appear though that he used them in need, rather than chomping them for the way up?
Brian in SLC:
Nah...he was on the way up...
Tom Woods:
So....tweeker?
He seems to have some familiarity with these things, "you never know with tablets."
Todd Eastman:
Speed was handed to both sides during WWII...
... similar sh#t probably is still issued.
Jgill:
Thanks, Brian. I couldn't find my copy of Lonely Challenge which I read maybe 45 years ago.
At the U of Chicago in 1958 I climbed with a mathematician who had known Buhl. He talked about a bouldering traverse that had finger-holds "the width of match sticks" that only Buhl could do. He also encouraged me to learn a one-finger pull-up, which he said Buhl could do . . . which I did; and he might have, but I wasn't able to find any other evidence. (maybe it's buried in Lonely Challenge and I missed it!
Tom Woods:
This almost needs it's own thread. Rebuffat was a different type of inspiration than Buhl.
I didn't know what pervitin was when I used to read all this stuff. I'm not sure I know what it is now. One article I linked equated it to meth, but others compare it to dexadrine. I don't really know the difference, but I think it is good that these things come out into the light.
I learned long ago, from an older and wiser climber than me, that there really aren't any rules except that you don't lie about what you did. Buhl did not feel the need to lie about the pervitin, it appears. So in his mind, and perhaps his world at the time, it might not have been cheating to him.
What is cheating when it comes to substances in climbing?
I go back to the old words of wisdom- if you think you will have to lie about it, don't do it.
|
|
survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
|
|
Oct 31, 2015 - 07:46am PT
|
Great stuff here! Been so long since I read about him as a hungry youth in Central Oregon.
|
|
Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
|
|
Oct 31, 2015 - 12:07pm PT
|
FYI: "Pervitin" is known in medical circles as Dexidrine. Commonly used as a diet aid BITD. Also used in the military, as Reilly stated, for a keep-awake aid on military exercises and long flights. Just imagine taking about 10 or 20 "old style" Sudafed tablets. And yes, Buhl did use it in order to keep going on some of his otherwise "death climbs."
I used it in the military during night exercises and alerts, to boost my mental awareness. Can't afford mistakes due to drowsiness!
|
|
Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
|
|
Oct 31, 2015 - 12:11pm PT
|
The books written by Herman Buhl were very influential during my era, BITD in Boulder. Layton, Bob, and others, all were of the mind: If Buhl said, we did. I still have my copies of The Lonely Challenge, and Nanga Parbat Pilgrimage.
|
|
Marlow
Sport climber
OSLO
|
|
Oct 31, 2015 - 12:30pm PT
|
|
|
tom woods
Gym climber
Bishop, CA
|
|
Oct 31, 2015 - 07:51pm PT
|
Thanks for starting a new thread. It felt weird on the Gaston thread. We use to pretend to be Gaston in our early years as climbers.
I always liked Buhl too, and I don't like him less for the pervitin. He didn't lie about it.
Sometimes I wonder about those people my parents' age, I felt as a kid that I couldn't keep up with what they did, but it turns out that they were on dexidrine or pervitin or whatever.
It makes them more human.....less superhuman.
|
|
survival
Big Wall climber
Terrapin Station
|
|
Oct 31, 2015 - 09:28pm PT
|
Indeed. Speed was so widespread it wasn't even looked down on after WWII. At least that's my impression.
And it doesn't change my view of Buhl either.
|
|
Marlow
Sport climber
OSLO
|
|
The life of the parents is the book their children read. There are those who are always destined to go first. Their path is a lonely one, surrounded by unknown obstacles and dangers, yet they never lose their confidence. One of these men was Hermann Buhl. His vision was called Nanga Parbat, an 8125-meter peak in Pakistan. It turned into his mountain. Seven expeditions had already failed,and its snows had become a grave for thirty-one climbers. The Austrian reached the summit in 1953, without the use of supplemental oxygen, after a legendary solo climb. He was the first human up there, and for a moment, he got to see the world as only the Gods can. Then he went back to the world of people.
Alpinist.com
Nanga Parbat means "naked mountain" in Urdu. It is also called Diamir, the "Dwelling Place of the Fairies".
In the five decades after the first ascent of Nanga Parbat, Hermann Buhl's route was repeated only once. Two members of a Czechoslovakian expedition, Ivan Fiala and Michal Orolin, reached the summit on July 11, 1971, climbing from Camp VI on the Silver Plateau (c. 7600 m/24,935 ft.). Their expedition was an outstandingly successful outing, because the same day Jozef Psotka, Arno Puskas, and Ivan Urbanovic made the first ascents of the Forepeak (7910 m/25,953 ft.) and the Southeast Summit ("Südöstlicher Silberzacken", 7530 m/24,706 ft.). The team also made ascents of South Congra Peak and Raikot Peak, both first climbed in 1932.
http://www.affimer.org/project-np6.html
Jochen Hemmleb
|
|
Rick A
climber
Boulder, Colorado
|
|
Marlow quotes from a very touching article in Alpinist 49 by Kriemhild Buhl, his eldest daughter. She was 5 years old when he died on Chogolisa in 1957.
A sample:
As a young girl, I dreamed the same dream over and over: My father returns one day, ragged as a vagabond, his beard grown into matted fringes...Every time I woke up, drenched in sweat. And I realized how much I missed him. How would my life have been different if he'd really come back?
|
|
Marlow
Sport climber
OSLO
|
|
The photo following the article:
The biography written by Kriemhild: Mein Vater Hermann Buhl
|
|
TGT
Social climber
So Cal
|
|
BustO'Buhl
|
|
jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
|
|
Buhl had a far, far greater influence on my perception of climbing than anyone else in the mid and late 1950s. His description of soloing the Fleischbank Südost - over 1,200 feet high - and other similar climbs captured my imagination. He stated that he wanted to find his limits and that solo climbing was the only way. I took that to heart and began soloing in the late 1950s, wandering up walls and ridges and pinnacles in the Tetons and the Needles and elsewhere, frequently exploring virgin territory and gradually pushing myself toward those illusive, ill-defined limits.
Bouldering was a separate activity that I enjoyed immensely, but there was nothing to compare with the sense of freedom and ultimate responsibility that soloing provided. After I quit difficult bouldering at the age of fifty I continued solo exploration, putting up route after route of mild difficulty (none of which I revealed to others, save occasionally friends like John Sherman - who accompanied me on solo climbs in the Granite mountains). Buhl's voice continued to resonate until I retired from the climbing world in 2006.
|
|
Kalimon
Social climber
Ridgway, CO
|
|
Wonderful post Mr. Gill!
|
|
tuolumne_tradster
Trad climber
Leading Edge of North American Plate
|
|
One of Buhl's sweaters displayed in the Haus der Berge museum in Berchtesgaden.
|
|
Marlow
Sport climber
OSLO
|
|
Hermann Buhl carried through the streets of München after his FA of Nanga Parbat 1953. His 2 years old daughter Kriemhilde on the right.
Hermann Buhl with his wife Eugenie as driver because of his amputated toes (1953)
|
|
Brokedownclimber
Trad climber
Douglas, WY
|
|
Buhl was--and remains--my idol. During my 2 year "vacation at government expense" between 1963 & 1964 in Europe, I climbed with one of his old partners, Helmut Pfanzelt, from Garmisch-Partenkirchen. I was regaled with the stories of the "madman," and his irrepressible quest for the summits. He also was not adverse to doing dynos on hard routes.
|
|
Ksolem
Trad climber
Monrovia, California
|
|
Regarding the Bust-o-Buhl above, it's worth a mention that Phil Bircheff carved that and the one behind of Muir in his campsite at Tuttle Creek. Pretty amazing stuff. He's a master.
He quarries his own stone too...
|
|
jogill
climber
Colorado
|
|
I climbed at Devil's Lake in 1958 with a German climber/mathematician who had known Buhl. He described a boulder problem somewhere near Munich that only Buhl could do when a group attacked it. He said Buhl "used a fingerhold the width of a matchstick."
That description stuck with me for all these intervening years.
|
|
Don Paul
Big Wall climber
Denver CO
|
|
Sep 16, 2016 - 06:42pm PT
|
I'm halfway through reading Nanga Parbat Pilgrimage. It's a very scary book. Translated from German, and written 60 years ago, it's like reading a fairy tale, but beyond extreme. I picked up an old copy for $6, thinking I would bring it on a trip someday, but its not going to last until then. You can also get a pdf copy of it for free, just google the title.
|
|
rgold
Trad climber
Poughkeepsie, NY
|
|
Sep 16, 2016 - 10:44pm PT
|
John, was that Helmut Ruhl?
|
|
steveA
Trad climber
Wolfeboro, NH
|
|
Sep 17, 2016 - 04:31am PT
|
Here is a bit of trivia concerning Buhl:
In 1975, I went off to climb the Walker Spur, with John Bouchard. John's mother-in-law lived in Chamonix, and for years put up many climbers; including Buhl.
John needed a pair of wool socks for the climb, and his wife's mother gave him a pair, mentioning that they were left in the house by Buhl.
On the summit pitch, a violent storm hit us, where Bouchard, and Voytech Kurtyka were both hit by lightning.
After we got down, John discovered that there were burn holes in his mittens, and socks. Perhaps John kept those socks for good luck!
|
|
jgill
Boulder climber
The high prairie of southern Colorado
|
|
Sep 17, 2016 - 01:35pm PT
|
Yes, Rich.
Helmut Röhrl
Helmut also told me Buhl could do a one finger chin-up, but I think he was pulling my leg. Nevertheless, the thought did inspire me and I did one on the horizontal bar in Bartlett Gym!
|
|
Chris Jones
Social climber
Glen Ellen, CA
|
|
Sep 18, 2016 - 12:38pm PT
|
Buhl’s 1956 book, “Nanga Parbat Pilgrimage”, along with Rebuffat’s “Starlight and Storm,” were our early reference points and inspiration. In the late 1950s, high-standard UK alpine climbing was just getting going, but here were these continental Europeans who were simply kicking ass. We could quote passages from Buhl’s book to each other - about pitons just a few millimeters into the rock, of rockfall, of harrowing bivouacs. And then one of our favorites: the East Face of the Watzmann, “at night, solo, and in winter.” This phrase alone simply trumped any other exploit one might hear about. We could barely imagine doing or enduring any of those things. I was already out of the hard man running, as my first trip to the Alps was by train rather than by bike as Buhl had done. Beaten before we got going.
His climbs in the Alps were to us just phenomenal, and had even more meaning than the Himalayan efforts - here were places we could actually get to if we ever screwed up the courage.
|
|
i-b-goB
Social climber
Wise Acres
|
|
Sep 18, 2016 - 04:51pm PT
|
Phil Bircheff's busts are amazing!
If they made a movie about Hermann they should get Adrien Brody to play the part.
|
|
Don Paul
Big Wall climber
Denver CO
|
|
Sep 19, 2016 - 07:41am PT
|
Thanks Chris, I just ordered Rebuffat's book on ebay. "At night, solo, in winter" ... and in a storm, more often than not.
|
|
Marlow
Sport climber
OSLO
|
|
Hermann Buhl - Nanga Parbat 1953
|
|
Marlow
Sport climber
OSLO
|
|
Hermann Buhl - the last signs he left on Chogolisa.
His tent was found by Japanese climbers during a later ascent.
|
|
Don Lauria
Trad climber
Bishop, CA
|
|
Buhl was/is Life is a Bivouac's idol. Where are you Russ?
|
|
Messages 1 - 37 of total 37 in this topic |
|
SuperTopo on the Web
|