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Mimi
climber
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Jan 15, 2008 - 03:07pm PT
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Jaybro, weren't you one of the 'many' parties that 'raced' up the Aquarian to toss excrement and other debris on our two heroes? I bet you saw more than wooden figurines. LOL! Somehow, I can't see you being one of those tossers....
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dirtineye
Trad climber
the south
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Jan 15, 2008 - 03:09pm PT
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Seriously, an 80 degree face with slopey edges for 9 pitches would make a fine free climb, sportingly bolted on lead of course.
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Mimi
climber
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Jan 15, 2008 - 03:11pm PT
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On hooks of course.
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bvb
Social climber
flagstaff arizona
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Jan 15, 2008 - 03:21pm PT
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i've heard the crux holds on "flabob" at roubidoux make those hooking edges on wos look like bivvy ledges.
i mean, fukk!!
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Tomcat
Trad climber
Chatham N.H.
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Jan 15, 2008 - 03:55pm PT
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Agreed Munge,don't see or hear you bitchin' about it or dissin' it though.
Mimi,could you be more specific about a)the pitches that have been climbed on the lead b)the ones you yourself have climbed,if any,my impression is that you are a highly skilled aid climber c)why it's cute or OK for "Chongo" to take big freight and a long time,but not these guys?
Seems like some pretty outstanding wall climbers have been up there and bailed due to difficulties/scary falls.If the WOS boys didn't have the required street creds and accomplished this route,seems all the more impressive.
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Mungeclimber
Trad climber
sorry, just posting out loud.
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Jan 15, 2008 - 04:39pm PT
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i could! don't tempt me.
;)
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the Fet
Knackered climber
A bivy sack in the secret campground
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Jan 15, 2008 - 04:58pm PT
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Haters wanna hate, lovers wanna love. I don't even want none of the above.
I want to piss on you! Yes I do. I'll piss on you; I'll pee on you.
sence your body, your body is a Porta-Potty.
And my pee I'd kick; like it know's karate. (knows karate)
i'm ganna pee on you. drip drip drip pee on you.pisss on you piss on you.
And you'll never fell quite the same once u take a whiff of my Hershey stains.
I want to poop on u too.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_V3jy8bEPSE
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Oakville, Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Jan 15, 2008 - 05:08pm PT
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"Pitch one has interspersed hooks and rivets for the first 60 feet, with a couple of bolts to save from the ground fall. At that point the angle eases just enough that I was able to free climb for another 35 feet or so, with a couple of bolts in that distance. The free climbing ends at a headwall that is 50 feet or so high. You stand on a small ledge, about 2 inches by 20 inches long. There is a bolt there. About 25 feet above that bolt, after hooking, there is another bolt. Took a couple of nasty falls there, narrowly missing the little ledge."
The description above is PRECISELY what I found. Since I am long retired from free climbing, I did not even attempt the free climbing bit, but managed to find a way to hook under it to the left, then up.
I stood on that 2" wide ledge, and you can get a no-hands rest there. I thought I remembered it as being a little wider, and I had frightening visions of hitting it and fully destroying my once-busted but now-rebuilt ankle. In fact, I was thinking of my bone doctor saying, "Right then, go use it. Just don't break it again cuz I won't be able to fix it next time."
Because the hooking is so desperate, because I had been up there for like four hours on toprope at that point trying to figure it out, and because I had already decided that there was no way I was going to try leading the route, and because my cheat-stick was "only" 15' long, I was unable to reach the next bolt by legit means. I used the rope that Ammon had fixed to skip one or two hook moves I couldn't figure out, after Tom had secured permission from Gabe. Somewhere near the top when I was run-out 25', one of my hooks blew, and I would have been into the Whipper Of My Life had I not been on toprope. My bone doctor would not have been impressed.
I hope Richard is smart enough to reply, "Yes, that's what we took," and leave it at that. That's even more stuff than I take on my big wall camping trips, so if for no other reason they should be commended for their hauling ability.
Or something.
Holy frig, Steve - why did you cut off the bit in your scan about the hole count? Let's see what they wrote in the book, and see how it compares to what they have written on the forum. What could be a better credibility check? Please rescan the whole part about the hole count, and let's see what they said, eh?
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healyje
Trad climber
Portland, Oregon
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Jan 15, 2008 - 05:14pm PT
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"...other eyewitnesses"
So far the only "eyewitnesses" that count are Ammon, Pete, Jody, and two guys from Looking Glass - nobody else counts because nobody else has ever set eyes on the route. What has been reported by those who have bothered to get on the route completely contradicts 25 years of spew.
Clueless, sure - they hadn't done anything like this and so over-geared - but to me it's still the essence of old school to just guess and go; onsight, clueless, and unannounced. Had we made it out around then I like to think we would have done something similar.
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'Pass the Pitons' Pete
Big Wall climber
like Oakville, Ontario, Canada, eh?
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Jan 15, 2008 - 05:19pm PT
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It's now documented by me, Ammon, Tom and Randy that there are no bathooks nor visible enhancements on the first two pitches. Our observations are 100% consistent with what Richard and Mark told us, and with what they have written. At any rate, the route is a wide-open slab, everything is visible. Walk to the bottom of the slab with a pair of decent binoculars, a pen and a piece of paper, and look at the first few pitches in detail from different angles, and write down what you see.
The first two pitches are wicked runout, and certainly not over-bolted. A better scope will no doubt reveal the same on the pitches above.
It is amazing to me that nobody has bothered doing this! Instead they perpetuate lies. And if you've been doing this for twenty-five years, you probably don't want anyone to go up there and look, and tell you otherwise.
As per Tomcat's request, we await Mimi's wall resume, and aid pitch lead resume, of which she has been amazingly and repeatedly vague.
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Elcapinyoazz
Social climber
Joshua Tree
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Jan 15, 2008 - 05:24pm PT
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"So far the only "eyewitnesses" that count are Ammon, Pete, Jody"
Umm, right. In YOUR opinion. Are you dense enough to think that Jody was speaking from personal experience? Kind of discounts your little chest thumping exclamation about knowing who's opinion counts. If I had to guess I'd say he was excerpting the book.
"nobody else counts because nobody else has ever set eyes on the route."
Says who? Again, YOUR opinion. If I recall correctly, Slater did a bunch of the pitches on this route. Did he do it with his eyes closed? There are other eyewitnesses besides your pets.
and this one is even more precious:
"Had we made it out around then I like to think we would have done something similar."
And if your aunt had balls she'd be your uncle. Retro couldawouldashoulda chestbeating, even lamer.
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno, CA
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Jan 15, 2008 - 05:42pm PT
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I'll re-post what I saw and how I saw it here, I suppose. For reference, I guess...
"There are NO bathook holes on the first pitch. There are NONE on the 2nd pitch. Not looking up from the ground, and not looking from 1 foot away, while on the slab itself. There also were no bathook holes I could see while at the top of pitch two, looking up at the route with a 100-400 Canon L lens. This, on a 1.6 crop is effectively a 640mm lens. And, now that I think of it, I was also using a 2x teleconvertor, which would bring us to 1280mm. Pretty much a low-powered telescope, at that point.
This whole "Thousand Bolts to Horse Chutes" stuff is just crap. The bolts/rivets on the route are spaced 25-35' apart. I don't see this route as over-bolted by either today's standards or by yesterday's. Seriously, you can figure this all out from the base. You can see the bolt/rivet placement. If you have poor eyesight or feel you need to see higher, then bring some binocs. Surely, the folks thrashing Richard and Mark must have had these, as I'm pretty sure most FAist or potential FAists had them to search out possible lines.
But then, we all know that the bolt/rivet count isn't what any of this was about, to begin with."
Someone up above posted a little bit about an unfair comparison to climbs that climb crack sytems (which I highly prefer over slab) and how routes on the Apron would inherently/naturally require a few more bolts, just by the nature of the rock. ie; slab with no cracks. That's pretty much common sense and a logical conclusion to come to. Honestly, there are tons of climbs in the valley having a higher bolt count when doing a bolts-per-foot ratio. Everyone keeps talking about turning it into a sport climb, etc... Even as a sport climb, this would have a pretty bold count and pretty serious whips. Moreso than most things in the valley. Whoever does this, kudos to you. Good luck.
edit: That *is* a crazy amount of sh#t to take in a motorhome, let a lone on a wall tho! Youch!
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rick d
Social climber
tucson, az
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Jan 15, 2008 - 05:42pm PT
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20 bongs for a slab route?
Sure glad richard and mark did not head off alpine climbing. With all the tripe they carry they would still be shuttling loads (25 years later).
...and no alcohol not even wine!
unlike "72 tall boys" in one haul bag like some others I've known.
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Mimi
climber
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Jan 15, 2008 - 05:50pm PT
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The other eyewitness, elcapfool, saw plenty of evidence. Why are these observations being disregarded Pete and Randy?
No one has downplayed what Chongo was doing as cute and over the years, whenever it was known that anyone drilled a chicken bolt, added a rivet, or a bathook hole, or enhanced hook moves, they were criticized. This includes all the big dogs too. So, this argument doesn't fly.
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graniteclimber
Trad climber
Nowhere
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Jan 15, 2008 - 05:58pm PT
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"I hope Richard is smart enough to reply, "Yes, that's what we took," and leave it at that."
I hope Richard is smart enough not to reply at all. The OP does not deserve a response. Also, Steve's mind is made up and nothing Richard says or does will change it.
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Nefarius
Big Wall climber
Fresno, CA
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Jan 15, 2008 - 06:10pm PT
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I'm not disregarding anything, Mimi. Seriously. I'm just stating what I saw, as one of the few people who have actually been on some of the pitches of the climb.
Honestly, at this point, this has all gone on so long and so many people have said so many things, I don't even remember what Christian or others have said. And I gotta give you guys props for having the courage to go back and scour the threads (thousands of posts now) to see/re-post what people have said. That must take some serious effort!
So, again, not trying to disregard, just posting what I saw. The only thing I am adamantly pointing out is that the route is NOT a bolt/rivet ladder. It's simply not true, and I'm pretty sure that the folks you mention didn't say that was the case either. I could be wrong on that, however. Even with my lens setup that day, there's a lot I might not have been able to see. Looking up the other 11 pitches from the top of 2 is a LONG ways! So the rest remains to be seen...
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GDavis
Trad climber
SoCal
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Jan 15, 2008 - 07:25pm PT
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Those who have climbed it claim the work of madmen hell bent on self destruction, with rivets placed up to 40 feet apart. Those who detract have yet to touch it.
It's all contrived until you get on it, eh?
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Jaybro
Social climber
The West
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Jan 15, 2008 - 07:30pm PT
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Still new stuff!?
You called it, Mimi, I was part of one of those Aquarian teams (Mike paul was on another, seperate, ascent)I have never thrown a bag of poop at any person in my life, though looking back, sometimes I should have
-and I DON'T mean the WOS guys-
Mimi, weren't you one of the people I almost nailed when I pulled that big flake off of Coral Corner? Heard a story that you were down there that day, not really happy with those "Wyoming Boys"! source= Rick Derrick, for what any of this is worth. (I'm pretty sure 'tusi didn't launch any mudsharks in their direction, either)
Will, I think Jody was being playful, though maybe I read wrong.
Jody, I don't think he really has it in for you.
Jody,the drill/wooden model graphic made me choke! Not big gulp™ safe!
Too bad (understatement) Rob Slater, who I used to climb with sometimes in Vedauwoo back when dinosaurs roamed the earth, isn't around to chime in in his bombastic fashion...
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