TR: Fishers in January

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Cuckawalla

Trad climber

Grand Junction, CO

Topic Author's Original Post - Jan 15, 2008 - 11:09am PT

8:30 PM I get off work and call Jesse B and Mike Z and tell them that we are going to the Fishers, Colorado NE Ridge on King Fisher. They question my reasons but by 10 pm we are on I-70. Iron Maiden albums on repeat and soon we are on the river road. At the parking lot of the Fishers Mike has a great idea of using his car to pack down the snow. 15 minutes later and a lot of driving back and forth we have our camp. We each have our two mediocre sleeping bags stuffed inside each other. We pound a nightcap and stuff ourselves into our sleeping bags by 12:30.

7:30 Am: A not quite Alpine start Mike starts up the car and its Slayer until we leave.

I realize that I forgot a rope. Two will have to do. I realize I just brought approach shoes and everyone else was smart enough to bring some boots. Desperation inspires ingenuity, I use the tent stuff sacks as gaiters:
The sun Rises and eggs us on.
We slide around on the trail
We start Climbing at around 9:00
Jesse B Links Pitches one and two.

WE can see the sun spreading golden down from the top. We jug faster to bask in it.

Jesse Fixes the first pitch as he goes by, and I start jugging. At the first pitch ledge I belay him and Mike starts jugging the first pitch. Jesse gets to pitch two and I scurry up to the ledge with promise of sun.
When the sun hits us we stop and stare off towards it. Our eyes closed. Revitalized.

I get the crux pitch.
I clean the snow but the ice below enhances the route.
The #3 Camalot blows and I fall.
I go back up topstep and get a f*#ked REd Camalot and it holds. I do a mantle on ice and realize our purgatory like position.
Mike jugs up, balancing between Snow and Sun.

As mike flies up the next bolt ladder
I tune my ears to the constant rock fall around us. AS the walls warm and the ice melts. At times the towers would resonate with the crash of boulders.

I jug up to Mike and pitch off around the corner, lucky to be there, lucky to get both of the good pitches, the great exposure, lucky to be alive and experience this.
AT the large ledge before the last free pitch the sun begins to set and the fellas start to speed jug. I promise them if they hurry they will get to feel the last fingers of sunlight on the ledge.
Jesse Takes off on the last pitch and fixes it
WE get a few more moments in the sun.
WE go to rap and Jesse Forgot his Belay device. WE have to fixe every pitch for him to rap with a Gri-Gri. WE follow by unfixing and rapping.
From the Ledge before the summit we had to chisel the rap anchors from the snow
and ooze off the edge into the fading light. We rap quickly and silently.
Wanting to be on the ground, but also in remorse to another adventures end
The last rap down the chimney in the dark might as well have been down a cave. I bounced off the sides getting wedged.
On the ground we sit and pound a 24oz mickeys and having only one head lamp, and only one power bar all day stumble to the car.
Its Bob Dylan's Forever Young as we bounce away from the Fishers.

I called Mike up this weekend, "How About the titan?"

Scared Silly

Trad climber

Jan 15, 2008 - 11:15am PT

Cool -

TwistedCrank

climber

Ideeho

Jan 15, 2008 - 11:15am PT

Top-tier TR! You guys got bank!

paganmonkeyboy

climber

mars...it's near nevada...

Jan 15, 2008 - 11:25am PT

that's so sweet - looks even sketchier in the snow, if that's possible ;-)
nice work !

hoipolloi

climber

A friends backyard with the neighbors wifi

Jan 15, 2008 - 11:27am PT

great TR. looks really beautiful with the snow.

Looks like headlamps and powerbars will definately be in the pocket the next time, eh? haha. I hate the dark, im skurr'd

TKingsbury

Trad climber

Jan 15, 2008 - 11:31am PT

WOW!

thank you for this...what a great day starter!

FeelioBabar

climber

Sneaking up behind you...

Jan 15, 2008 - 11:33am PT

Proud work. Love the sun side/cold side photo.

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Jan 15, 2008 - 11:35am PT

Much cooler than the average TR.

piquaclimber

Trad climber

Durango

Jan 15, 2008 - 11:36am PT

An excellent TR guys! Beautiful photos.
You guys are burl!

Brad

handsome B

Gym climber

SL,UT

Jan 15, 2008 - 12:47pm PT

I just have to ask: WHY?

It's all about the friends and adventure!

survival

Big Wall climber

arlington, va

Jan 15, 2008 - 12:53pm PT

Well done fellows! Nice pictures too.
Bruce

scuffy b

climber

Stump with a backrest

Jan 15, 2008 - 12:54pm PT

rapped with a gri gri?

crunch

Social climber

Jan 15, 2008 - 01:41pm PT

Nice pictures and story. Brave to be climbing there at all with that much snow.

Brrrrrrrrrr. Man that's a lot of snow for the Fishers. In midwinter, the place seems to go back a few decades; no people, no noise, a spooky atmosphere. The wind seems to have given up, the animals have disappeared, even the plants all seem to be hunkered down for the season, but the rocks come to life--those random rockfalls always make my insides curl up a bit.

Here's a view of an unknown climber (hard to see, on the skyline) on the route.

crøtch

climber

Jan 15, 2008 - 02:09pm PT

kickass. great sun/shade arete photo.

BadInfluence

Mountain climber

Dak side

Jan 15, 2008 - 03:25pm PT

sweet

goatboy smellz

climber

colorado

Jan 15, 2008 - 05:38pm PT

Big Kahuna

Ice climber

Hell Hardest climb I did was getting out of bed.

Jan 15, 2008 - 08:34pm PT

Nice! Great pic thx for the TR

Zander

Trad climber

Berkeley

Jan 15, 2008 - 08:49pm PT

You guys are Ku-ray-z.
Nice one!

Jaybro

Social climber

The West

Jan 15, 2008 - 09:40pm PT

Man, that was cool!

Fluoride

Trad climber

Hollywood, CA

Jan 15, 2008 - 10:13pm PT

Burly doesn't even begin to describe that.

Excellent TR and congrats on the send. Fishers in the winter covered in snow. GAH!!!!

You guys rock.

Russ Walling

Social climber

Out on the sand.... man.....

Jan 15, 2008 - 10:13pm PT

Super TR!

10b4me

climber

1/2way between Yos and Moab

Jan 16, 2008 - 12:37am PT

that looks like fun!!

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Jan 16, 2008 - 07:39am PT

C's TR really oughtta stay front page for a while.

flamer

Trad climber

denver

Jan 16, 2008 - 11:25am PT

Well I'll go against what's being said.
Why would you do this?

Sure you look hard by doing it in the snow, but you also climbed on some of the softest sandstone in the desert when it was covered in snow. Which means its even weaker than normal, meaning you can very easily damage the placements that are still there. Plus you did it on the biggest trade route in the fishers(well except AA).

Is this Adventure you had, and the TR worth it? Could you have just as easily waited until spring or at least a week of good weather?

josh

handsome B

Gym climber

SL,UT

Jan 16, 2008 - 12:07pm PT

"Which means its even weaker than normal"

I believe the snow acts more as a bonding agent, much like peanut butter in a dogs mouth.

piquaclimber

Trad climber

Durango

Jan 16, 2008 - 03:58pm PT

Josh,

Are you serious or just trolling?

Brad

PS. the Cutler sandstone of the Fishers isn't even in the running for "some of the softest sandstone in the desert".

flamer

Trad climber

denver

Jan 16, 2008 - 07:03pm PT

I'm not trolling.

And it certainly is.

josh

gunsmoke

Trad climber

Clackamas, Oregon

Jan 16, 2008 - 10:42pm PT

"biggest trade route in the fishers" ???

Even Fishers now has trade routes? What's the climbing world coming to?

clustiere

Trad climber

Rock Ridge/ Oakland CA

Jan 16, 2008 - 11:22pm PT

Wowo the picts are great. Looks like a cool expereince. You are aware that wet sandstone breaks more easily and that breaking sandstone forever alters the route. But hey who hasn't f*#ked up some sandstone in their time.

piquaclimber

Trad climber

Durango

Jan 17, 2008 - 11:31am PT

Josh,

I am curious where else you have climbed in the desert given your belief that the Cutler in the Fisher is some of the softest sandstone out there?

Off the top of my head I would say that the following areas are all softer than the Fishers...

Arches
Cenotaph Spire area out at the Lost World Butte
Joe Wilson Canyon
Texas Canyon
Sunshine Wall
Some areas of Colroado National Monument
Parts of Valley of the Gods
Much of the rock on the Navajolands

the list could go on...

Generally speaking, Entrada and Navajo are softer than Cutler.

Cheers,
Brad

flamer

Trad climber

denver

Jan 17, 2008 - 01:36pm PT

Brad,
In addition to several routes in the fishers I've climbed
All over the Moab region on all it's varities.
Multiple routes in Zion.
St George.
Colo. National monument.
Red Rock canyon outside Vegas(lots).
Garden of the gods In C. springs.
Sedona.
Mcammond Resvoir(Winslow AZ.)
Plus some I'm sure I'm forgetting.

And what I can tell you is you are splitting hairs. If you think there is softer sandstone(2 types I believe you said) then wouldn't that still make the fishers "Among" the softest?
I've found The Fishers to be very soft with water and snow affecting it dramatically.

I can also tell you that I've gone to the fishers, had it rain for days, and left with the sun shining because it was still to wet.

josh

paganmonkeyboy

climber

mars...it's near nevada...

Jan 17, 2008 - 01:41pm PT

I think the sandstone is pretty hard, but the 6 - 24 inches of mud that covers it gets soft ? dunno - need to get back down there and test the theory...

piquaclimber

Trad climber

Durango

Jan 17, 2008 - 02:09pm PT

Josh,

I gave two types of sandstone that are softer that Cutler only as an general and non inclusive guideline as to which areas are softer than the Fishers.

If you want to split hairs, you said that they climbed "some of the softest sandstone in the desert".... not that they climbed on one of the softest types of sandstone in the desert.

My point is that I could name 50 areas that have softer rock than the Fishers so I don't consider it to be "some of the softest rock in the desert".

Besides the real reason I posted is because I thought you post was out of place in this thread. If you want to debate what routes and areas should be ethically off-limits in the snow that's fine. Start your own thread on that topic. Don't hijack their TR.

Cheers,
Brad

benkiessel

Trad climber

Gunnison, Co

Jan 17, 2008 - 02:39pm PT

Josh,
First of all thanks for not climbing in the Fishers when it was wet, good call, you and the rock would have most likely gotten f*#ked up.
However in my opinion it is unfair to say that since there was some snow on the ground that Cuckawalla was in the wrong. From the photos it does not appear that the vertical walls were wet. A little snow/ice on a ledge does not mean that the tower is going to fall down, that you are going to break off the ledge, or that you’re going to damage the route any more than a normal ascent would. It is all relative to the situation. I have climbed on sandstone when there is snow on ledges because the route is not wet and I have NOT climbed on snowy days because the route was wet. You can bitch all you want about how they could have hurt the beautiful route but you weren't there. Just because some rock is wet doesn't mean that the route is wet.
Ben

flamer

Trad climber

denver

Jan 17, 2008 - 05:24pm PT

Look again at the photos Ben, I certainly did before I said anything because I know exactly what you are saying about snow being on the ground vs. on the route. They are clearly brushing it off as they climb. Not every bit...but snowmelt does run down. Look it the back of the chimney on pitch 2. Don't you think that's a pretty good example of what the rest of the cracks might be like? Well what few cracks there are on that route!
As far as "Hijacking" the thread...if someone is going to post something like this under the general guise of "check out the cool thing I did"...then it also needs to be pointed out that climbing something like this in the condition's it was isn't exactly cool.
I always view TR's as a way to get other people excited about doing something. Encouragement if you will.
Encouraging people to go out and climb sandstone routes(no matter how hard or soft) when they are covered in snow is not a good thing.

Are there some good photos? Yes. Is it a fun route worth climbing? Yep. Is it cool to climb it in this condition? No.
Did they commit some unforgiveable sin? Nope.
Did I lash out at the guy with all kind's of names and accusation's or anything? Nope. Truly not an internet flame.

I'm not totally off base here and you both know it.

josh

benkiessel

Trad climber

Gunnison, Co

Jan 17, 2008 - 07:14pm PT

Josh,
I looked again at the photos and still would have to say that you would have had to been there to be able to say they were in the wrong. Although I believe there are exceptions, I agree that in general it is not a good idea to climb on sandstone when there is snow.

Ben

Cuckawalla

Trad climber

Grand Junction, CO

Topic Author's Reply - Jan 17, 2008 - 07:48pm PT

I guess in defense of my actions I will explain why we did this. Grand Junction is undergoing the dreaded freezing inversion, and moab was warm. That is what sparked us to go. Was the adventure worth it? Yes. I assume you think I climb purely so I can spray Trip Reports? I do a lot of photography and so a trip report is just an after thought. I dont know if you have done this route, but as far as damaging the rock, 95% of it are bolts on overhanging faces. I doubt that it has been above 30 degrees there for a while. I did brush some snow off. I would think that if it was slushy conditions climbing on this rock would be bad. May be we are ethically impaired, but our goal was to have a good experience and except for the arete pitch there was little snow.
-Jesse

Cuckawalla

Trad climber

Grand Junction, CO

Topic Author's Reply - Jan 17, 2008 - 11:28pm PT

Ben, when you coming down to tick some towers w/ me?
-Jesse

Cuckawalla

Trad climber

Grand Junction, CO

Topic Author's Reply - Jan 18, 2008 - 10:49am PT

It looked like we got the first ascent of 2008. Last recoded ascent of the King was 11/20/07. As for what I did for the C2 I got a orange alien in right off the ledge, and then tried messing with a bigger cam in the flare. The typical in lope retracted the other open. When that didn't work I topped stepped and got a slightly better flared Red Camelot higher up. I couldn't imagine being able to reach the rivet from even my last high point. I had to do a bit of free climbing to get to the next rivet.

I guess thats what is good/funny about aid climbing in a lot of cases is the different methodology in getting the heck up. Mike and I just got back from two days in Moab. WE drove all the way to Indian creek and it was snowing, drove back and had some wall street fun. As long as the wind isn't blowing it is great climbing weather.
-Jesse

flamer

Trad climber

denver

Jan 18, 2008 - 12:57pm PT

Jesse I have climbed this route. You live in Grand junction so it takes how long to get to the fishers?

Rad....Blow me. I didn't attack or flame. You want to be a dick, go ahead.
I'm not advocated no climbing in the winter months. I'm advocate waiting a few days until the rock can dry out a bit or at least not posting pictures.
I'm guessing you and Jim B go way back? So you know that it was the exact same conditions? The time of year has little to do with it. Sure it holds heads, and when I spoke to the 2nd ascentionist about it he told me the rock blew out around every head when he removed it, leaving a bigger pod. Plenty strong.

The more I think about it the more I realise that "soft" isn't the right word to describe cutler....crumbly that's the right word.

Also I wonder if the cutler is as "good" as wingate(as you argue) Why have the fishers not become a free climbing destination? Lack of vertical cracks maybe, although we all know there are some. Plenty of face holds, oh but most of them pull off. Plenty strong, even when wet.

josh

nature

climber

Santa Fe, NM

Jan 18, 2008 - 01:05pm PT

what the hell is wrong with you people. That just looks dumb! Nice TR, thanks for allowing me to appreciate the warmth of my new home.

Duke-

Trad climber

SF, aka: Dirkastan

Jan 18, 2008 - 01:34pm PT

Sick TR!

-Dirka

Cuckawalla

Trad climber

Grand Junction, CO

Topic Author's Reply - Jan 18, 2008 - 01:45pm PT

As far as waiting a few days. The snow was not there because it had snowed a few days before. It had just been cold for a week or so and as you can see what snow that would melt did. The side with snow will probably have snow until it starts getting above 32 degrees. I am under the impression that the type of "crumbly" or "soft" rock that are the fishers will deteriorate regardless. At what pace will it degrade is all speculation. I have done this route in the summer and I felt that just as much sand/clumps fell off as when I did it this January. I guess I feel that you are implying still that my pictures of it are of the intention to spray or proclaim my machismo. There are other TR here that have to do with winter aid climbing are they too ego inflated?
I guess we have to ask what the point of a trip report is?
A)To inspire and reveal new avenues of climbing
B) Self promotion
C)Entertainment
D) Repayment (in regards to all the times I could not get out and lived vicariously through others in their Trip Reports)

I take comfort in the fact of knowing that people are getting out there doing what they love, and sharing that with others. Sharing that bond with others, the humor, the fear, and the antics.

I am not saying whether what we did was right or wrong because it seems to be a Grey area. Under the circumstances I felt that it was safe and non-detrimental to the route. But who am I but just another theorist.
-Jesse

flamer

Trad climber

denver

Jan 18, 2008 - 03:20pm PT

Jesse,
I agree with what you are saying. Particularly about a TR being a means to inspire other people(as I stated before).
My posting on here, especially in regard to you, wasn't intended as a "flame"...you'll notice I didn't call you names or a bad climber or anything of the like.

Rather I was pointing to the grey area you speak of. Was what you did right or wrong? The only person to really make that call is you. It certainly sounds like you made an educated descision. But there is that grey area, and posting a TR without mention of it may encourage people who won't make an educated descision. My post was meant as a means of pointing out that grey area. Not as a slight towards you.

The fishers are a special place, one that demands increased stewrdship of the land. Not only the towers themselves but even the muddy trails, etc.

In the end aren't we all theorists?

josh

paganmonkeyboy

climber

mars...it's near nevada...

Jan 18, 2008 - 06:19pm PT

so i'm gonna speculate no one wants to see my 'climbing the fishers with ice tools and crampons' test next month, eh ? i think the mud's too thin for mono points, might try horizontals instead of vertical...

(i'm joking...that mud won't hold horizontals either ;-) )

coward

Trad climber

Boulder, Wyoming

Jan 18, 2008 - 06:45pm PT

Why aren't the Fishers a destination free climbing area?

You'd have to be pretty good to make a good showing on any major tower. But I'd say Ancient Art is definitely a destination in itself.

Chiloe

Trad climber

Lee, NH

Jan 18, 2008 - 07:09pm PT

I haven't counted but I think the votes are running very strongly in favor of future TRs from Jesse, whatever the season.

flamer

Trad climber

denver

Jan 18, 2008 - 07:12pm PT

Tis' true AA is an awesome free climb.

In regards to Ice axe's...look at a bunch of Duane Raliegh's routes....Ice axe's are on the gear list! He used them "grappling hook style". That's right tied a rope to them and threw them, once it caught...up the line!
BURLY.
Think those routes will see a 2nd?
Someday, someone will charge it I'm sure.

Oh and just to be clear..I'd enjoy seeing more from Jesse.

josh