Figures on a Landscape

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philo

Trad climber

Somewhere halfway over the rainbow

Feb 10, 2011 - 12:29pm PT

Craig, I for one really appreciated that recount.

At the base during the "FA" the peanut gallery scuttlebutt revolved around how damn wicked the route looked, Spencer being gone, the saga of Such a Savage and Maria's fabulous legs. That last part may have just been in my daydream. Anyway I was aware of a sense of an "under the radar" tension among the "in the know" folks. But as I was the outsider on my first JT trip I had no idea of the significance of the route or the controversy brewing that day. For what it's worth coming from a washed up gumbie you deserve all the credit due you. It really is a brilliant line and a wonderful climb. Is it better now that the belay stance has been moved?

Fish_Products

Big Wall climber

FishProducts.com

Feb 10, 2011 - 12:29pm PT

I've heard the MoonFuzz has pics of the FA, that shows all the parties involved, in action. Maybe he will post up.

See us on the web at:
http://www.FishProducts.com
http://fishproductsblog.blogspot.com/

dee ee

Mountain climber

citizen of planet Earth

Feb 10, 2011 - 01:23pm PT

Here is a pic of me placing the third bolt.

Here is a pic of me about to place the fourth bolt.

Murf

climber

Feb 10, 2011 - 01:42pm PT

it has to do with RV and DE EE getting all kinds of praise for their visionary excellence, and all the kudos for the excellent route that they did, five stars, the best route in Josh, Pictured on Magazine covers

There's a story in the new Josh Classics book about the FA of Crime of the Century (it's been told on the Taco as well). The particulars escape me, but it involves absent partners, poaching of a route, all the same sordid nonsense. At the end, the guy who was left out (Yaniro I believe) was apologized to. His response was along the lines of , "It's just a route, and you guys are my bros. Lets go climbing."

Murf

climber

Feb 10, 2011 - 01:47pm PT

I placed the fourth or the five bolt, just above where you are on the photo above, and then backed off, since I could not see the next stance, Randy put in the next two

Come on Craig, editing is weak! If you have the story so firm in your mind, why did you just change that post from:

I placed the fourth bolt,
to
I placed the fourth or the five bolt,

edit for

Now it reads:

I placed the fourth or the fifth bolt,

As well as quoting my Yaniro post.

Murf

climber

Feb 10, 2011 - 01:53pm PT

Because DE said he placed the next bolt and I don't want to make him any madder than he alrready is

So what is this a vendetta against Vogel only? Pistols at ten paces?

I know I placed that bolt, right above his head he says he did, did he?, I see no picture of him up at the stance drilling

Where are the pictures of you on it at all?

I can not remember exactly how many bolts DE placed

But I thought it was so clear in your mind?

Murf

climber

Feb 10, 2011 - 01:54pm PT

edit: I will edit all I want

Whats your problem you got a stick up your butt, or what

Pssst, Craig? There's a mirror in the restroom at the office. Take a quick break (and a deep breath) and go take a look at it.

Johnny K.

climber

Southern,California

Feb 10, 2011 - 01:55pm PT

With all due respect to,bolts at Joshua tree always bring out the worst in people.Period.

Life is too short for bs.Talk less,climb more.

dee ee

Mountain climber

citizen of planet Earth

Feb 10, 2011 - 01:59pm PT

As you can see in the photo the fourth bolt has not been placed yet. I stood up and placed it.
Randy placed the fifth bolt.

I'm not mad about anything.

Murf

climber

Feb 10, 2011 - 02:06pm PT

Craig seriously...

Sketchy sez
I am very sorry that we did not wait for you Craig.

Craig was an inspired, talented and motivated Josh climber. It was a pleasure to have called him a friend and to have shared time at the crags. I choose to remember and leave it at that.

Make him buy you a beer or something....

Murf

climber

Feb 10, 2011 - 02:10pm PT

So its all OK that RV and DE EE stole my route

You are OK with that

"We" aren't the problem. You have the issue, and it seems like nothing will ever set it right. You want the world to acknowledge your complete awesomeness? The world has moved and the FOTL is a obscure footnote.

take a look in the mirror, you must hate yourself for letting routes be stolen, and then giving credit to route thieves

I think a lot of things when I look in the mirror. It usually involves terms "fat ass" and "muffin top".

DE didn't know why I wasn't there the day they finished the route, it was RV decision to steal it, and he didn't tell DE the truth

And for this you want... what exactly?

EDITED TO ADD:

I will not answer any more questions about who placed which bolt, since we will never have a consensus

Checks clipboard, OK, crosses off "Issue: who placed what bolt".

But we do have a consensus on who started the route, and who finished it and that is the question we are discussing, not about the bolts

Checks clipboard... scratches out hate, remorse, anger. Writes, "Issue 1: who started it... Issue 2: who finished it."
But I do remember placing he bolt above Dave's head, so we have another stalemate

I placed the bolt, then came down I'm not sure that the picture of DE was even the same day as when I was there, so I can not comment anymore on Dave's Memory

Checks clipboard, shakes head, pencils back in "Issue: who place what bolt".

ydpl8s

Trad climber

Santa Monica, California

Feb 10, 2011 - 02:14pm PT

Things looked a lot calmer when Ron took this picture.

http://www.supertopo.com/inc/photo_view.php?dpid=Pzs1Ozo4KCcr

Murf

climber

Feb 10, 2011 - 02:17pm PT

But we can have so much more fun discussing it forever, yes

Randy did apologize somewhat, but he has not agreed to the problems with the FA

He apologized for making me mad, and not waiting for me

and still claims all the glory for the ascent

At the end of the day, the glory goes to the guys who stood on top first. Not sure who you can argue about that point with.

Friend

climber

Feb 10, 2011 - 02:28pm PT

This thread is a riot, I love it. All I would like to add is:

Thanks Dave and Randy for this kick ass route. The two of you are true visionaries.

Here's yet another old (but not THAT old) shot, mid 90s:

henny

Social climber

The Past

Feb 10, 2011 - 04:01pm PT

There's a story in the new Josh Classics book about the FA of Crime of the Century (it's been told on the Taco as well). The particulars escape me, but it involves absent partners, poaching of a route, all the same sordid nonsense. At the end, the guy who was left out (Yaniro I believe) was apologized to. His response was along the lines of , "It's just a route, and you guys are my bros. Lets go climbing."

As one of the parties involved I do know a few details.

Ricky (Rockamazo), KP, and myself originally found the route and unsuccessfully tried it a couple of times in super cold weather. KP and I then went back without Rick, unfortunately once again in freezing conditions. Problem was, Tony saw us on it from a distance - later asking us what it was. We replied an unfinished FA. I guess Tony then showed the line to Nick and Mike, who snaked it from Tony. All this while we, the original party still intended to come back to it. So the route was snaked from a snake trying to snake it from snakes that were trying to snake it from Ricky. Does it get much better than that? I mean, one just can't help but laugh at that sequence. If anybody was left out it wan't Tony, it was us. A few times removed - how hilarious.

Who cares? Seriously. Who cares?

Wait... I could have been famous if not for those guys. They stole my route and my glory. None of those guys would have ever become anybody if not for us.

Who cares other than as a historical footnote maybe. And even then. I don't have access to the mentioned story in the book, but I think the fact that we (RA, KP, DH) found the route before Tony is little known. So it's probably not even in the story. If so I've potentially been double ripped off. Not only is my name not on the FA, but it likely isn't even mentioned in the historical recountings. Now I'm really angry. NOT.

henny

Social climber

The Past

Feb 10, 2011 - 05:45pm PT

I believe there was a pretty clear famous implication a few posts back. But whatever, I should have refrained.

Most people probably have little interest in how the FA controversy finally ends up playing out. I doubt most people even want to take sides at all. But if it is felt that it still needs to be pursued, then continue.

I usually refrain from commenting on the subject because I don't have a horse in the race. I'll adhere to that again in the future and not let the thread going negative be bothersome. Right or wrong, it starts to sound harsh after a while.

Mighty Hiker

climber

Vancouver, B.C.

Feb 10, 2011 - 09:06pm PT

Thank you, Craig, for the Yabo story, and Henny, for the snake story. Good reading!

Aren't these things supposed to be resolved by a bolt-out at dawn, each armed with a 1/4" Rawl drill?

Ksolem

Trad climber

Monrovia, California

Feb 10, 2011 - 11:08pm PT

Y'all "visionaries" are all worked up about a pretty mediocre route actually.

It is always freezing cold there, the thing never sees the sun.

It has a pretty real choss factor, holds break off a lot.

It has no natural line, it is the opposite of "the line which follows the drop of water from the summit" idea.

It is not difficult. In fact it is over graded.

Some much better routes out that way are Black President, Yardyhoo and Away, Caught Outside on a Big Set, Big Brown Eye, Raging Bull Dike, Middle Age Crazy, etc...